Some clarity on Peyton's injury
by colt_monger on Feb 9, 2012 10:27 PM EST
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PrintThere is way too much misinformation on Peyton Manning's injury.
First of all, a little history.
According to Dungy and Manning, Peyton received his initial neck injury in a game against the Washington Redskins on Oct. 22, 2006. Dungy recalled that " Manning's neck was wrenched and his helmet ripped off when he took a hit by Andre Carter followed by a hit from Phillip Daniels". The hits were legal so do not read anything into that.
When Manning got up he shook his right arm " as if to get the feeling back into it". Peyton took a time out and told the back up QB to be ready. Peyton went on to throw for 244 yards and three TD's in the second half. According to Irsay and Dungy the neck would get aggravated over the next few years but nothing really abnormal.
But, in September of 2010 it was reported that Peyton had been injured sometime before week one. That is when the disc in his neck began to do nerve damage. Manning struggled with pain throughout the 2010 season. He admitted to not having as much throwing strength as usual. This resulted in his decreased production: 91.2 passer rating, 4700 yards, 33 TD's and 17 Int. (hell of a season for an injured QB).
Peyton's first two surgeries were more noninvasive in an attempt to keep the disc from doing damage to the nerve. The fusion was done on the third attempt and was successful. Two of the countries leading neurosurgeons, along with the Colts neurosurgeon have cleared Peyton to play in the NFL again. This relates completely to the fusion itself. Not the nerve regeneration that is subsequent to the fusion surgery.
Peyton is no more likely to "break his neck and be paralyzed" than anyone else in the league. The fusion does not make his neck "weaker", it just may be a little less mobile. Only time will tell. The discs are fused and healed and no longer do damage to the nerve, which is what has caused the loss in arm strength.
The question now is, when and if the nerve will completely heal. This process can take from a few months to a year. The fact is, a study was done on this very issue in regards to NFL players who have had disc herniation's and nerve damage. According to the Spine Orthopedics,Aug. 2010, 72% of NFL players who underwent surgery for disk herniation and resulting nerve damage returned to play, on average for 2.8 more years. The non-surgery group returned to play for just 1.5 years.
In an interview with Joe Montana, Joe said he underwent fusion surgery in 1986 and was told many of the same things Peyton has by so many around him- just retire. Montana underwent his surgery and went on to win Super Bowls 23 and 24, was MVP in 1989, Super Bowl MVP and led his team to two 14-2 regular seasons. And all of this after disc fusion surgery.
According to Peyton and those around him he is getting strength back in his arm. Both Reggie Wayne and Joseph Addai took some reps from Manning and agreed that he was getting more zip on the ball. It could still take several months to find out if Peyton will be in that 72% club and get back to full strength.
The Colt's do not have the luxury of waiting to find out as they have to make a decision before March 8th and a 28 million dollar bonus they would have to pay Manning. It's not going to happen and Peyton will become a free agent.
The rest of the NFL has more time to see how Peyton is doing. The fact is the odds are in Peyton's favor. He is already getting his strength back and there is a three out of four chance his nerve will heal completely. If so, I believe Peyton has at least three more years of Manning level football left in him, maybe more. He may be 36 but other than this neck injury he was the least sacked QB in the league his entire career. He has never taken the kind of punishment other older QB's have endured.
I would also add that Peyton may be the smartest most cerebral QB in history. I believe he can adjust his game as he gets older and still be just as dangerous. Kinda like Michael Jordan when he could no longer dunk a ball from the free throw line. He just invented the fade shot and won more titles.
If Peyton's nerve completely heals, a team in need of a franchise QB would be nuts not to go for him. Just my two cents.
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Nice info
Im personally not a fan of us getting Peyton because I prefer us find a long-term answer, but I wouldn’t complain…
Miami's Superstars: Reggie Bush, Brandon Marshall, Jake Long, Mike Pouncey, Karlos Dansby, Cameron Wake, Vontae Davis and Sean Smith (just wait), Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mike Stanton, Gaby Sanchez, Hanley Ramirez, Josh Johnson, Heath Bell, Mark Buehrle, Jose Reyes, Tomas Fleischmann, Stephen Weiss, Jose Theodore, and Chris Versteeg. :)
Not spam..
Just enjoy discussing the subject with those teams I believe Peyton could end up at. I am a Manning fan and really believe he will be fine and play great ball for a new team. I am looking forward to a new era with Luck in Indy and Peyton with a new team. Dont read anymore into it.
Appreciate it a lot. Thanks for the info. Whoever expects you to write out a completely new post for each team is a dumbass.
Most of us would wet ourselves if Peyton joined Miami.
My only question......
Of that 72% that went on to play an average of 2.8 years. How many were 36 years or older? You mentioned Montana in 1986, but he was only 29 going on 30 at the time.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
In 6 seasons Montanna got sacked 151 times an average of about 25 times a season...
And back then you could actually kill the QB. Today if you hit them too high… or too low… or too hard… PENALTY. With all that said Manning over his career has been sacked 231 times in 13 seasons. I think Manning has taken less punishment in 13 years than Montanna took in 6 seasons. Keep in mind also that before Montanna won that Super Bowl he also took another 101 sacks in the regular season. I am too lazy to go back and include in postseason and preseason stats for both of these guys, but if you really want to do a complete job… be my guest.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 7:35 AM EST up reply actions
You can't make a comparison between a guy 29 and a guy 36.
Not only that, but you’re also only comparing actual sacks. You’re not taking into consideration QB hits, scrambles, or when they’re forced to play D on turnovers. Manning has had 7 more years of that punishment on his body than Montana did in comparison. Not to mention the fact a 29 year old will heal much quicker than a 36 year old.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I believe Jason brings up a very valid point though.
But as far as the punishment on Peyton’s body over the years, it really isn’t much. Peyton has been one of the least hit QBs in the NFL because he gets rid of the ball quickly and he used to have an OL that was good in pass protection.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
But you're purely speculating.
If he was one of the least hit QBs in the league he wouldn’t of had 3 neck surgeries. David Carr broke the record for times sacked like 3 years in a row, and he hasn’t had surgery yet.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
It's not just speculating
Just because he had 3 neck surgeries doesn’t mean he was hit a lot. It only takes one hit to cause an injury. Manning had 3 surgeries for the same injury, not 3 surgeries to repair 3 injuries. Peyton has played many more years than Carr and this neck injury is really the only injury of concern over Peyton’s career.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
It's speculation because you're making a claim you can't back-up.
Peyton has been one of the least hit QBs in the NFL because he gets rid of the ball quickly and he used to have an OL that was good in pass protection.
That is an assumption unless you can back it up with total number of times hit. Which for him is going to be significantly higher than most QBs due to the higher number of passes thrown.
The reason he’s had 3 surgeries is because the first two times he had invasive surgeries that alleviated the pain and allowed him to continue playing without missing significant time. If he had gotten the invasive surgery the first time in 2006, he most likely wouldn’t be in the situation he is in now.
Yes, Carr has played less years than Manning. But the argument given, that you were defending was based on sack numbers. So by that comparison, David Carr’s body should be worse off than Manning’s (266 to 231).
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
It's an assumption made based on what I see.
Peyton throws more than most QBs, but he does a great job of avoiding hits. It’s late now, but I’ll try looking for numbers tomorrow.
As for the 3 surgeries, the first one wasn’t even in regards to trying to fix any nerve pain. The second surgery in 2011 wasn’t done just to allow him to play (it was done in May during the offseason), but in hopes it would resolve the issue. It didn’t.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
Assumption based on what you've seen?
I doubt that would be very compelling evidence considering I’m fairly certain you’ve not watched a large portion of Manning’s 227 NFL games.
This is what I’ve seen. Peyton Manning has dropped back to pass more than only 3 QBs in NFL history. With an average well above anybody other than Drew Brees. It doesn’t matter how good he was at avoiding taking hits. By the sheer number of drop backs he’s had, it’s nearly impossible for him to have been hit less than most QBs.
As for the surgeries, I wasn’t implying they were done so he could play the next week. They were done to help alleviate the pain he was in, and to prevent any further damage to his nerves. While still allowing him the ability to play.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
If you know anything about football you will look at the numbers..
Just look at the number of sacks. Now I ask you, why did Peyton Manning have so few sacks? Was it because he threw the ball less than other QBs? Probably not, in fact he probably threw more passes than a good number of QBs. Was it because his offensive line was so dominant? I wouldn’t say that either, as shown how those same linemen gave up 35 sacks last year with other players back at QB. So what would you chalk it up to? His ability to put his offensive line in the right scheme, make sure his team was in the best possible play and get the ball out of his hands and into his playmaker’s hands? I would say this is the most likely option of the three.. wouldn’t you? His ability to do that and the current rules in the NFL that keep players from breathing on a guy like Tom Brady also protect the franchise for a guy like Peyton Manning. He gets the calls because he is an elite player, that a guy like Matt Moore wouldn’t get. And because he is smart, he knows how to get rid of the ball in enough time to keep himself from getting flattened the way a guy like Matt Moore gets flattened.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 14, 2012 7:38 AM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure I based what I said on numbers.
The problem is you’re only focusing on one number, total sacks. If you read my earlier comments, you’d know that’s not the only way a QB gets hit. Just because a QB is smart enough to get the ball out of his hands before he gets sacked doesn’t mean he doesn’t get hit.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
You are also focusing on only one number...
Pass attempts. That’s even less accurate…
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
True....
But my number encompasses a greater spectrum than yours. You say it’s less accurate, but every QB gets hit more than they get sacked. You can’t dispute that. So it would stand to reason the QB who drops back more than any other QB in the league is likely to get hit more often.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I would say that I have seen a good deal of Peyton's games
And I feel comfortable saying that while I know Peyton drops backs much more than most QBs, he’s still hit less than most.
After all, despite all the stats you mentioned with how often Peyton dropped back, look at where Indy ranks in sacks allowed. They tied first in the NFL for least sacks with NYG with 16 sacks allowed. They led the NFL in sacks allowed with a league low 13 in 2009. They ranked 4th in the NFL in 2008 with only 14 sacks allowed. They ranked 7th in 2007 with 23 sacks allowed. They again led the league in 2006 with only 15 sacks allowed. Based on your theory that he should be hit a lot because he drops back a lot, then the same should say that Indy should be sacked a lot, but they’re not.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
You're still focusing on only one number......
Based on your theory that he should be hit a lot because he drops back a lot, then the same should say that Indy should be sacked a lot, but they’re not.
Just because a QB gets rid of the ball before he’s sacked, doesn’t mean he doesn’t get hit. You’re assuming that because he didn’t take a sack, he never got hit. You’re failing to realize the reason he took so few sacks wasn’t necessarily because he always threw the ball before the pressure got close. It was because he’s a smart QB who got rid of the ball before he could be sacked. Which includes standing tall in the pocket and taking the hit while still getting the throw off.
You may feel comfortable making the assumption that he’s hit less than most QBs, but you have no evidence to back it up. Now if you just stuck with he’s sacked less than most QBs, you’d have the evidence to support that.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Like above...
You are also focusing on only one number and that is pass attempts. Just because a QB throws the ball, it doesn’t mean he gets hit either. You were assuming that because he passed often, he was hit more often. You’re failing to realize that just because he threw the ball than most QBs he wasn’t necessarily getting hit more than them because he would often throw the ball before pressure got to him. It was because he’s a smart QB who gets rid of the ball before he can be hit. Which includes standing tall in the pocket and taking those quick steps to avoid the rush like Dan Marino often did.
You may feel comfortable making the assumption that he’s hit more than most QBs, but you have no evidence to back it up. Now if you just with he just passed more than most QBs, you’d have evidence to support that.
Wait, all of that above sounds familiar…
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
It does sound familiar.....
But mine holds more weight because even you can’t dispute the fact that a QB who’s dropped back more than all but two QBs in the history of the league, is going to get hit more than he’s gotten sacked and accumulate more hits than most QBs in his career. To try and justify that he hasn’t is ludicrous.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
And here is a quick one...
Found it from 2008, but Manning was only hit 29 times despite throwing 591 passes. One of the least hit QBs in the NFL.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2010/stat-day-quarterbacks-getting-hit
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
One year does not a career make.
Otherwise Kyle Orton would be a very highly sought QB, considering he was number one that year.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
But that is a pretty good indicator and matches up with what my eyes see.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
Here is one done by Mile High Report talking about the hit rate...
Indy had only one season (2007) in which Peyton had been hit more than 10% (10.9%). By comparison, Miami only had one season below 10% (9.6%). Again, Indy was one of the better teams in that category.
http://www.milehighreport.com/2011/7/7/2264664/sacks-qb-hits-and-qb-mobility-escapability
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
Yeah, it would help if his stats were correct.
The site he used has incorrect stats in regards to Manning’s sack totals. If they can’t even get sack totals right, I’m fairly certain their hit numbers are incorrect as well.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Are you referring to the Advanced NFL Stats website?
Because if you’re looking at Indy only surrendering the 18 sacks in 2010, that is because that is 18 sacks allowed by the front 7.
But I’ll use one that is easier, straight from NFL.com
In 2010, the Colts allowed 47 QB hits, second fewest in the NFL. In 2009, they allowed 44 QB hits, tied for fewest in the NFL.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
And how many hits has he had in his 13 year career.
Giving me two years worth of data doesn’t represent the amount of abuse his body has taken over the course of 13 years. So while I admit I’m surprised at how little he was hit in regards to how many times he dropped back. It still doesn’t change the fact his numbers are still going to be high for his career. I’m simply trying to state that his body is finally starting to show the affects of it. While everyone else can jump on the Manning band wagon. I don’t want our team to sign up for Brett Favre part 2.
I still don’t think he plays anywhere but Indy.
By the way, I read into the Montana surgery. He didn’t have the fusion surgery. He had surgery to widen his spinal column that had caused him to rupture a disc in his lower back. Not to mention the fact he was back playing 2 months after the surgery.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Just stop... its not like he had a neck surgery, got injured.. had another neck surgery.. got injured and had another one...
I don’t see that being a huge injury problem nearly as much as they were being super careful and wanted to make sure they got everything right. The Colts season went down in flames relatively early, and there was no reason for him to rush back to playing, when the season was so bad so early. Up until this time he had played every single game for his team since he came into the NFL, so it is not like we are getting a Chad Pennington here who has had multiple injuries. The thing you need to realize with spinal cord injuries is they really like to shy away from any surgery unless it is absolutely neccessary. They probably knew what they needed to do to begin with, but they wanted to try a few other things first, because the last result is fusing 2 vertebrae together and that would make him slightly less able to move his neck for the rest of his life. No one is saying the guy will never be able to throw again, but it is a process for him to get strength back into his arm. Some of that can be attributed to atrophy, and you would be surprised how quickly that can happen if you are limited by such an injury for a year. But to say that there is no way this guy can come back and be a franchise caliber QB is insane. Just stop.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 14, 2012 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry, but where are you getting all this from??????
I never said there was no way he can come back from this injury. Nor did I ever say he was injury prone. So maybe, you should just stop for a sec and read what I’ve written before giving your two cents. Because what you just wrote has nothing to do with what I’ve been talking about.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Not many were 36...
But many played positions like RB that take much more of a physical toll than playing QB does.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
But RB's don't have to throw the ball.
Which is what this injury is having the greatest effect on.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
The part about percentages is about the bone fusion, not nerve recovery.
In which case, if we’re talking about the bone fusion, which is what the stats mentioned, than I believe RBs would be of even greater risk. If you’re talking about the nerve, than all of this doesn’t apply and it wouldn’t matter how much Peyton has been hit over his career or how old he is. Nerves are their own beast when it comes to healing.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
Okay, so of those 72%......
How many was this their 3rd operation? How many have had 5 years of damage to the nerves in their throwing shoulder?
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see Manning come back healthy and back to his old form. I just don’t think it’s the right course of action for the Dolphins. All it will do is tease the fanbase into getting their hopes up for a season or two, only to crash them back to reality when he retires. Then you’ll have a FO that will go back to our old ways of finding the next quick fix to save their jobs for another season.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
It wasn't Manning's 3rd operation for the fusion...
Manning’s first surgery was before 2010 and was only done to remove calcium builup. His second surgery was done last May and that was the minimally invasive surgery to help repair the nerve discomfort. He chose that over a prolonger recovery in which the fusion would be done. When the May surgery failed to help, he had the 3rd surgery with the bone fusion to relieve pressure on the nerve. So really, Manning only had as many bone fusion surgeries as the other 72% you’re talking about. That would be one.
As for the 5 years of damage, Manning didn’t have weakness in the arm during those times. He suffered from pinch nerves, but there was no lasting nerve damage during that time. It wasn’t until much later that he felt weakness in his arm.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
I'm just going of what was written in the post.......
The post claims he first suffered an injury to his neck in 2006. He didn’t require surgery, but it clearly had an effect:
According to Irsay and Dungy the neck would get aggravated over the next few years but nothing really abnormal.
Many players will man up and play through injuries as long as they can. Which is exactly what Manning did from 2006 onwards. It wasn’t until 2010 that it really started to cause significant problems, and instead of fixing the problem at that time he chose to go the non-invasive route or quick fix route. That is why he is in the position he is in now.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Manning tried fixing it after 2010.
The surgery in May didn’t help as expected. The surgery he had before the start of the season in 2010 wasn’t in regards to any nerve injuries.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
That's a valid point but that was also 1986 and this is 2012. We have better medical procedures, recovery methods, training
methods, ect. now vs 26 years ago. Now is that enough to overcome his more advanced age? Maybe some but not all. Who really knows? I know that the idea of a healthy Manning is something that I am all on board with but since we can not predict for sure what his health will be as it relates to being able to throw a football then I for one am very cautious to say the least.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 10, 2012 9:43 AM EST up reply actions
This was said about brees leg of the bigger QB!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Brees so we took the sergicly repaired
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree. He could be Brees or he could be Culpepper. No one knows but its that uncertainty that worries me and
deep down you too.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 10, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Yep!
tooshey misure Tex!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
.. a Tom & Jerry reference!
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Jerry's little neffue he's french thoe!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
scoutmaster jerry!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
True.....
But Montana still had at least 7 more years of football left in him after the surgery. Manning is lucky to get 2 more years, if he stays completely healthy. I just don’t want to see us falling back into the old routine of drafting aging veterans in win now mentality. It doesn’t work.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I am personally afraid to sign him. Just pointing out the huge differences despite their ages.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 13, 2012 7:11 AM EST up reply actions
Its better then shuvelling chyt in lubic!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 13, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Good question...
I do not think our healing factor and immune system are compromised all that much at 36 any more than 30. IMO
.. but there is a difference bewtween Indy and Miami.
Indy with cow dung and pollution in the air is much worse.. to being in Miami with sunshine and the trade winds.. for healing… lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
If that was the case.....
You’d see more successful running backs over the age of 30.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
If you look at the RBs over 30
It’s not that they decline because of injuries, but most of the time they have declined because of the loss of their abilities. Big difference.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
I do though thing that all those hits they take over time have an impact on their ability to do what they could when
they were younger.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 13, 2012 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps
It may be more difficult to recover between Sundays, but I think perhaps the perhaps the biggest reasons are for the abuse their bodies took prior to their 30s. I just think that 30 isn’t necessarily a magic number when RBs start to get injured or have difficulty recovering. That’s why I think we’ve seen that some RBs over the age of 30 that haven’t taken a large amount of abuse during their earlier years are able to withstand the season. It’s when that 30 year-old RB has already undergone the bruising of 6 or 7 seasons and their past knicks and surgeries start catching up to them.
If Ricky Williams didn’t retire in 2004, I think his body would’ve gave out sooner. Being that he was out for a few years and a bit fresh, he was able to last longer. Same with Thomas Jones. Because he didn’t take years of physical beatings when he first entered the NFL, he was able to stay productive for the Jets after 30.
I say that after 30, RBs often decline because of their abilities. Still, the loss of ability could be attributed to the history of bruises and injuries suffered from years back. I just don’t see anything that really shows that RBs over 30 don’t have success because they’re often injured. I don’t see that. LT wasn’t injured at all last year and had more injuries prior to him being 30 than after. I’d like to see something that shows that players get injured more after 30 than they are prior to.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
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I’d like to see something that shows that players get injured more after 30 than they are prior to.
I don’t think that enters in to the debate. I think its a combination of the accumulation of things that happen over time with the fact that the older you get the harder it is to come back from those things.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 13, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
I’m not sure what percentage I would put on each, but I would think that age would play maybe, maybe 50% of it because we’ve seen players that haven’t had a history of pounding last well into their 30s, even at RB.
With Peyton, he doesn’t have a history of being hit/injured a lot and he doesn’t take a beating during games like other players, like RBs as we have been discussing. I don’t think Manning won’t bounce back because he’s over 30 years-old. Nerves are just a separate beast and they either heal or don’t heal, age be damned. You can be 13 and never heal from nerve damage. You can be 60 years-old as some of my relatives and fully recover from nerve problems. Maybe if we saw that there was complications Manning had with the bone fusion, but we’ve known for a long while now that the bone fusion went well and the bone is structurally sound. We’re just waiting to see how the nerve heals.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
I agree as it applies to Peyton. QB is a position that you can play till your 40 because you do not
take the same pounding and wear and tear on your body over the years that a RB does.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 13, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
`I'm gonna give you a rec there Payton nice sell & if you join the dolphin team I'll root for you just as much as i did for Bob Griese when i was a teenager!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 2:04 AM EST reply actions
... it's Peyton... not Payton.
Your teeth get in the way?
Wait, I’ll ask Dave21……
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Rushing fingers & roman nuckels!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the info....
Sounds as if Peyton Manning would be a great signing, especially if Miami signs him to an incentive laden contract. With Peyton, Miami would be a playoff contender! Plus then Miami trades Matt Moore for draft picks! Pat Devlin would assume the backup role. He was an accurate passer in college and perfect for the west coast offense. Miami would have a young QB to groom as peyton’s replacement and allow the draft picks to be used on other positions of need.
Who's going to give up a draft pick for Matt Moore?
Even if we were able to get a 4th rounder for him (which is a stretch), we’d be better off keeping him as a Back-Up (with your assumption that we sign Manning).
Personally, I don’t see Manning playing this season if ever. I predict Matt Moore will likely compete with another player (likely to be also be named Matt) for the starting job.
I bet we could get a third from someone needing a QB. Hell if someone looses one in camp you could probably get
more for him but I agree that he is probably worth more to us at this point then anyone else.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 10, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
That sounds about right that they would hold off on the fusion for so long..
They never want to go in and do major surgery if they can avoid it. Wow… really good info on Montanna… I never even knew that about him…
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
Also... Do you think he will be in the top 72% of players that return?
I think he will be in the top 1% of players that return to the game playing at a ridiculously high level, and take whatever team that signs him to a Supoer Bowl, becoming the first QB in history to lead 2 different teams to Super Bowl victories. I also believe that things have worked out in a way that in the 13th season after Dan Marino retired a frachise QB finally falls into our lap and we become relevant again.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 6:31 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah I dont think the defense needs to be gutted, teams were afrad to play us duing a period last year!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
The only thing we need to be scary on defense is get a playmaker at NT...
We do that … we become really scary… We have to control the line of scrimmage… I will say it once again.. Soliai did not do that last year… he controlled the space 2-3 yards behind the line of scrimmage. And that does make a difference in my book.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions
we need to give these new pick up an edge What do you think?
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 8:08 AM EST up reply actions
Db's Ross Weaver & Jon Amaya, l;isten close guys "GET A JUGGS" machine!
Profect & protect; just do it, set it up in your liveing room. Stand 6 feet away, turn it on-have sumone feed it balls all day long. We have guys here that are faster then you the only way i see that “you can win a job” here, is if you can catch the ball when it’s in your space!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 8:17 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't we trade Amaya as part of the Reggie Bush deal?
But I definitely agree that every single skill player needs to wake up every morning to a JUGGS machine firing footballs at them…
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
There was sum thin where we picked up a couple of free agents a while back & thought he was one. "My Bad"
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 8:56 AM EST up reply actions
no worries ... it happens to all of us occasionally...
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehhehe thx Pal!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
We only need a NT if we're in the 3-4...
We have 3 good DTs for our 4-3. We’re fine with that.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
Only if we stay at hybread Defense what makes sence, but 4-3 you dont set an 18 million a year football player, for 25 - 30 plays a game!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Trade Soliai for 2 real good DB then we're talking!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe Solia is a free agent so we'll lose the option to trade him. Unless we resign then trade and I don't see that happening.
by D0lphins4Life on Feb 11, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Yes your absol. we finaly get close to Wilfork in compatition & lose control over endevor!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 11, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I still think we will be better off if we can find that guy...
That big fat hulking 350+ lb guy that can hold it down in the middle. The difference between what we have in Soliai and the elite guy that I want is he will be faster than Soliai, he will get off the ball quickly and he will win at the line of scrimmage unless he is double teamed. When he is double teamed he will stop them at the line of scrimmage, not 2-4 yards behind the line of scrimmage. He will be able to use his hands to shed blocks and make plays in front of him, not behind. A guy like that is a game changer. It changes the way the rest of the D-line plays because on a pass rush he can actually still push the pocket back, helping our OLBs with the pass rush. It changes the way we play the run, because he doesn’t clog the LBs running lanes, he wins at the line of scrimmage so they can make plays at the line of scrimmage and behind it, rather than having to make them 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage because they had to scrape to avoid his big butt getting pushed back into them, rather than attacking the hole where they see the ball carrier. It will change 3rd and short, because teams like the Patriots wouldn’t dream of running their QB into the mouth of the beast to get a few yards.. or even a few inches.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
@ Finhead83,
If it were up to you, would you prefer Miami continue to be base 3-4 defense or switch to the 4-3?
I don't know...
I don’t think there is really a right answer because I think it depends on Miami’s defensive coordinator. I preferred Miami keeping Nolan, which I knew the chances would be very, very slim. Likewise, I also knew Nolan would likely keep the 3-4, which wouldn’t be a problem.
Coyle comes from a strict 4-3 background and obviously the 3-4 won’t be his preference. I am fine with that because we have the personnel for it. Both Tony McDaniel and Randy Starks originally played DT in a 4-3 defense and Jared Odrick has the ability to do so.
I think the key that it comes down to is the timing. Right now we have Kendall Langford and Paul Soliai as free agents. It would be costly to retain them and NTs are vital to the 3-4. It’s also much harder to find personnel for the 3-4 defense than it is for the 4-3. The timing is what makes the shift from a 3-4 a good move for the time. Looking at our current personnel as well, I do think Phillip Merling could be better as a 4-3 DE and even Odrick has the ability to play DE as well.
It’s a long answer, but it’s not a clear answer even for myself. I think if everything was equal, I would prefer the 3-4 defense, but I understand that with our roster with the front seven and our DC, the 4-3 is the better system for us currently.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
by Finhead83 on Feb 10, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We have wy to many ILB we can't keep 8 or 9, 4 midel linebackers!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
... that avatar could snap some wood with that....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Yeah u think!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
lot of people are making a big deal about 4-3 vs 3-4
you have to remember, Miami ran alot of 4 man fronts last year (I think I read somewhere it was around 40% of defensive calls) and did fine. The problem I think alot of folks may be having is that our new DC is coming from a strictly 4-3 defense and he may be unfamilar with how to run a 3-4 system. I think the secret to running a highly productive defense in the NFL is to have the personel to run either system on the drop of a dime, especially in today’s game where you live and die by the pass. Teams need to have an ELITE pass rusher who can stand up a get the QB in a hurry, only by causing a distrubance to a QB rhythm/timing (i.e. Tom Brady) will your defense have sucess.
So to make a long story short, you don’t need to be a 3-4 defense and you don’t need to be a 4-3 defense, if you want to be great you NEED to be both.
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 10, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think this
the secret to running a highly productive defense in the NFL is to have the personnel to run either system
and this
Teams need to have an ELITE pass rusher who can stand up a get the QB
are necessarily related.
I agree that teams need an ELITE pass rusher. I don’t understand why you need personnel for both schemes in order to pressure the QB.
That said, I think that if a team has the personnel for a 3-4 they can easily run some form of 4-3. It’s just that you lose a little speed in your front seven due to the larger linebackers and defensive ends utilized in a 3-4.
What I meant by those pass rusher statements is
that in my opinion today’s NFL who need an ELITE “tweener” pass rusher (i.e. Von Miller) who can both stand up and also put his hand in the ground.
If your defensive unit is made up of personnel that can operate in both systems, and can do it correctly, you’ve now created a unit that can disguise a blitz with incredible accuracy, therefore, making your unit ALOT more likely to get pressure on the opposing quaterback.
If you run a 3-4 you need BIG DE that can slide into the DT position at any time, Miami has this. You also need backers who are quick enough to recognize shallow routes and drop into coverage, Miami again has that. So my point is, AS OF NOW Miami’s defensive unit is an excellent example of a defense that can operate out of both systems, we are just missing a few core pieces (mainly in the secondary and another pass rusher). Also today’s new breed of players have the size without having to give up the speed, making a hybrid defense alot more logical in today’s game.
I hate to say this but New England (I feel) is one of the trailblazers in how NFL teams will begin to operate, 2 incredible pass catching TE’s and execellent slot guy on offensive and a defensive personnel that morphs back and forth from 3-4 to 4-3 in seconds.
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 10, 2012 8:03 PM EST up reply actions
This is what I'm talking about
SI.com draft analyst Tony Pauline is hearing that South Carolina DE Melvin Ingram will run a forty time in the 4.6s at the Combine.
Citing someone familiar with Ingram’s pre-draft training, Pauline reports that Ingram has looked “fast” and “athletic,” and South Carolina insiders say he ran in the 4.4s early in his college career, albeit when Ingram was 40 pounds lighter. Still, a 4.6 at 276 would certainly turn some heads. Ingram is the draft’s most versatile pass rusher, capable of playing linebacker, end, and tackle.
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 10, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I like when people says that someone has no experience running a 3-4...
Honestly… How different are the 2 defenses? The only difference in my opinion is the personnel and how it affect blocking assignments. It is not rocket science to move from a 4-3 to a 3-4, you just have to have the right personnel. These are professional coaches and I am sure they can watch a little bit of film and figure out how other teams run it…
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
It's harder than you think because you need different types of players for both.
And the more you ask of the players, the more complicated it gets for them.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
I did mention it was different personnel
that has nothing to do with experience though… This is not a high school coach… these guys are pros.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 11, 2012 6:39 AM EST up reply actions
That doesn't mean they can learn to do everything
Obviously there are a lot of pros that don’t catch on to the NFL or even a new scheme when a team changes.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
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I don't think you need to be both at all.
Look at the best defenses out there. How many are using both formations? NYG doesn’t swap to the 3-4 with their dominant DL. Pittsburgh doesn’t swap to the 4-3. Neither does Baltimore. You just need to be very good at the base formation you choose.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
Your 100% correct
But the fact is if you’re trying to convert one way or the other, there has to be a period in which you’re a hybrid defense. The conversion cannot take place over night. You have to build your defense through the draft and then supplement pieces thru FA. That is where we are now, we currently run a 3-4 however I feel that our personnel better suits 4-3 (atleast upfront). But Miami is a rare beast because it can switch to both systems, in my mind that is an advantage for us.
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 10, 2012 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
Each situation is different.
If you look at Miami’s defense, the players already have experience in the 4-3. Dansby and Burnett came from being 4-3 OLBs and Starks and McDaniel both came from being 4-3 DTs. If we ran a conventional 3-4 and had players that specialized in only that set, I would agree with you. Miami’s defense was flexible last year though and the players we have on board already have the experience and skillset for the 4-3.
It’s a different situation than what you described because we don’t need to acquire many players to make the shift. We already had one foot in the door.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
We're going to have to agree to agree
you and I are on the same page, I absolutely agree that our certain personnel would have no problem switching back and forth between a base 3-4 and 4-3.
McDaniels and Starks both were 4-3 DT before Miami (although I remember reading somewhere that McDaniels prefers be a 3-4 DE) so that we would be no problem. Odrick was originally drafted because he was the best 5-tech DL on the draft board so he can play almost anywhere up on the line. Dansby took the Cardinals to the big game being their stud “MIKE” backer, but I think you’re confused about Burnett. He came into the league in 2005 in Dallas, Parcells was running a 3-4 defense at that time, and then he went to San Diego where he played ILB in their 3-4 defense as well. Burnett is an intelligent player so I don’t see him having a problem picking up either Strongside or weakside positions. The only glich I see is Misi (they said he played MIKE in college for 1 year but that doesn’thold water in the NFL).
I really see them going after the best “tweener” defensive player available. Like I said before if they go hybrid, they need a guy that can stand up in the 3-4 but still has enough size and speed to put his hand down in the 4-3, that is why Melvin Ingram would make the most sense to me (he can even play DT).
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 11, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
When I mean that Dansby and Burnett originated as 4-3 OLBs, I meant from college as well.
Dansby was a 4-3 OLB at Auburn (after moving from SS) and Burnett was an OLB in Tennessee, but only Dansby continued to stay in the 4-3 OLB role when he entered the NFL. That is why I also said in another comment that Merling originated from a 4-3 DE.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
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Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
Right on
In that case Burnett should have some knowledge of 4-3 but like I said he’s smart player and will have no problems doing whatever is asked. And I was wrong Dansby was weakside LB in Arizona (although he did play some MLB occasionally). So if that’s the case do we put Burnett as strongside move Dansby to weakside and then plug Misi in as middle? And If that is the case then MLB might be a bigger need in the draft than I currently thought. Sean Spence, anyone.
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 11, 2012 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Or Miami could sign a MLB in FA like Curtis Lofton or Joe Mays.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
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@Finhead83
Well thought out.
In theory, I also prefer the 3-4 scheme. It seems to allow for more creative blitz packages and disguises. IMO, pressuring the opposing QB is crucial in today’s NFL.
In reality, it seems much easier to find affordable personnel for the 4-3. An elite 3-4 nose tackle is paid nearly as much as an elite QB. Just ask Haloti Ngata. And finding a dominant 3-4 OLB… He has to be an effective pass rusher, plus drop into coverage and defend the run proficiently. There aren’t many of these type players available.
I think it is easier to build an affordable 4-3 defense, if only because the personnel are more readily available. The linebackers and defensive lineman are generally smaller on average than the front seven in a 3-4.
I agree with
if everything was equal, I would prefer the 3-4 defenseAs long as that includes personnel salaries. :)
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
didn't he coach under Lewis.. who coached in Baltimore?
I might be reaching, but maybe we still run a hybrid 3-4/4-3 which is what Nolan was doing anyway…
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 10, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
sorta but from a 4-3 standpoint!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 10, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
I forget which interview it was in...I think senior bowl week...but Ireland said we ran 4-3 52% of the time.
That means we paid way too much for a not so bad NT
Can we just wheel Shula onto the field at the start of ever game being pushed by one of the Miami Cheerleaders? Talk about mixing fear and distraction...
by Hollywood Dolfan on Feb 10, 2012 10:16 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks
I remember reading that somewhere just wasn’t sure.
Also read in the PBP that Volin argued with one source that the Dolphins don’t really have the personnel right now to run a 4-3 and would have to make several changes. And the source countered "They don’t have the personnel to run the 3-4, either."
by kermit the frogger29 on Feb 10, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
They do have the personnel for the 4-3.
Both Burnett and Dansby have played 4-3 OLB and both McDaniel and Starks came from a 4-3 DT before joining Miami as 3-4 DEs. Odrick could also play 4-3 DT, but could stay in a conventional 4-3 DE. Also, Merling originated from a 4-3 DE as well. Wake is the only one to have not played 4-3 DE in the NFL, but did so in college and in the CFL.
I disagree with the notion that we don’t have the personnel for a 4-3 defense. We’d still need an upgrade over Merling at DE and would need a MLB, but we’re closer to a solid 4-3 defense than we are a 3-4 defense because we lack a solid NT and OLB if we went with the 3-4.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
by Finhead83 on Feb 11, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
TY bruther 83 & a rec for the swift defensive move that was given!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 12, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
our agustment must have been the 4-3cuz they were flat running over the center um the first half err the 3-4!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 11, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Coyle coached under Lewis, but not at Baltimore.
Coyle has been with Cincy since 2001. When Lewis was with Baltimore, Coyle was at Fresno State. Marvin Lewis also used a 4-3 defense in Baltimore, not the 3-4. The Ravens didn’t use the 3-4 until Mike Nolan replaced Lewis.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
Thanks for the perspective! rec'd
Put me on the acquire Peyton Manning bandwagon…especially to an incentive laden contract
SE_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _LT LG C RG RT TE _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _FL
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ SC__FB
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __QB_ _ _ _ _ Direct Snap WildSCAT Option Attack
Just curious
How many of those 72% waited almost four years before having his first surgery done and has been as slow a healer as Peyton has to this point?
Because he didn't need it four years ago
It’s also only speculation that the injury that caused this occurred in 2006, but back then he didn’t have any lingering affects. Reports also trace Manning’s injury to 2010. Either way, he didn’t require the surgery back in ’06. So the answer to your question is none, including Peyton.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow @Finhead83
Also remember that it took more then one surgery to fix the issue which is reportedly fixed now.
If your counting from the first surgery then yeah its been a while.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 12, 2012 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
***3***
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 12, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Yes more then one.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 12, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Opps 4 wooden that weaken the Fusion just asking!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 17, 2012 8:51 AM EST up reply actions
Peyton might not be the BEST QB in NFL History
But he might be the smartest. Nobody commands the field like #18. As long as he checks out medically SIGN him. He’ll give us 2-5 good years and we can always draft a Q to groom behind him. Sign Manning, draft Coples and a few small pieces via FA (Reggie Nelson, Garcon, Mathis) and we should have a legitimate shot at the big game EVERY year.
I'm ALL- IN. Do whatever it takes to get Andrew Luck or RGIII to Miami in 2012.
Laces out!
-2008 AFC East Champions-
BRANDON MARSHALL- FUTURE MIAMI HOF WR!!!!!
Tom Brandstater- more TD's than completions. Last person to tell him that's not possible, well, nobody has seen him since.
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