Todd McShay Thinks the Dolphins Need A Pass-Rusher
by kmb8488 on Feb 3, 2012 5:00 AM EST
in 2013 Miami Dolphins Draft Prospects
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PrintThe life-changing piece of literature known as Todd McShay's mock draft 2.0 was released yesterday on ESPN's website, and while I have next-to-no use for ESPN at this point, I have to admit that McShay's latest mock draft is the best I've seen thus far in 2012. It also helps that he doesn't have the Dolphins taking a player who will return to school less than 24 hours after the mock draft is released (his previous mock had us taking Matt Barkley).
This time, Big Head Todd (I've got pages of this stuff. You'll see) has Miami addressing its sickly pass rush and selecting South Carolina defensive end Melvin Ingram. Ingram is coming off of a Senior Bowl week in which he routinely smacked around his competition and looked unblockable during one-on-one drills, and he's right behind North Carolina's Quinton Coples as the best defensive end in this draft class. Ingram (6'2", 270) is a "tweener" prospect who will project as an outstanding edge-rusher in the 3-4 scheme, but I see him more as a Dwight-Freeney-type defensive end. Ingram has boatloads of upside right now, and he showed much improvement as a run defender this season. Simply put, he'd be a valuable addition to the Dolphins' defense next season, regardless of scheme.
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I like that pick. Maybe we trade back into the late first round to steal a OL or DB depending on who is on the board.
by AEllis1 on Feb 3, 2012 5:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Good Idea!
Miami can never go wrong by trading down. Miami has a lot of needs to address and the more picks we have, the more needs we can address.
by tpl on Feb 3, 2012 7:00 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was suggesting drafting Ingram at 8/9
and then trading UP into the 1st round, which is what I want to do, except I want to get Dwayne Allen.
More of Moore in 2012!
Coples for our new 4-3!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Allen would be a great pickup.
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like the pick
but if Coples is there…I’d rather we draft him
Either way, they’re both good prospects
aka...Jason laKdog
Contributing writer to The Phinsider
"Kdog will make a Fanshot out of it. Before there’s even a report. And no one will know how."-Mosul
Winner of The Davone Bess Little Guy Award, 2010
I am not a huge fan of Heath Evans but after reading what
he said about Coples at the Senior Bowl I am not keen on him. I also don’t see Ireland/Philbin drafting someone that has a questionable work ethic.
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Vontae Davis comes to mind
off the field issues hurt his stock…look at him now
aka...Jason laKdog
Contributing writer to The Phinsider
"Kdog will make a Fanshot out of it. Before there’s even a report. And no one will know how."-Mosul
Winner of The Davone Bess Little Guy Award, 2010
There is a HUGE difference
between off the field issues or attitude/cockiness and work ethic. VD had issues with being cocky and having a poor attitude, Coples is said to have poor practice habits and work ethic. You can work around attitude issues if the player wants to put the work in, in the film room and practise field. If a player only puts the effort on game day then his days an an NFL player will be numbered. It may work in College but it won’t in the NFL.
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*his days as an NFL player
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the knock on coples is he is a head case and doesnt like to practice
But you cant take anything away from him on game day. the kid is talented and i hope , should we get him he is coachable, otherwise get ingram. i watched both during the senior bowl they both looked good. it seemed like coples took a few plays off though.
Voted 6 time" MVP"..... Summercamp Pantyraid winner !!!!!!!!!
That's been pretty wildly reported as the knock on Coples.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
by texascowpunk on Feb 3, 2012 9:23 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
We talkin bout practice...
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I've heard talk like that
But i’ve also heard
“Solid worker. Plays the game with emotion and passion. Team player. Willing to switch positions (from DE to DT in 2010). In June of 2011, he was cleared of any wrongdoing for his attendance at a draft party for former Tar Heels Marvin Austin and Robert Quinn, according to the Charlotte Observer”
From scouts inc. I haven’t made up my mind about him yet. I’ll be very interested to watch his career.
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Couples name has been tossed around on this site for months.
I have literally never heard any such thing about him until this post.
“I’d look at character, I’d look at intangibles and I would look at work ethic,” Evans said. "Prime example: Quinton Coples, this big, awesome (defensive) end from UNC. I doubt Bill would touch him with a 10-foot pole. All the talent in the world but had this nonchalant attitude all week during the Senior Bowl.
“I was watching and I thought, ‘You know … he has all the ability in the world, but I would be highly surprised if he is in the league in four years.’ Truth of the matter is, he’ll probably get picked in the first 10 picks (of the draft) and someone will let him hang around for 10 years, but if he doesn’t change his work ethic and learn how to attack the game, he will not be successful on the NFL level
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/
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Sorry the link didn't work
Who was that you were quoting
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Can you say...
Haynesworth 2.0 !!! No thank you!
by miamimike71 on Feb 3, 2012 2:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
this would be great pick if you dont take trades into account
but i would rather have a package deal with the bengals (our 1st, 4th and brian hartline for both of their 1sts). we pick up meachem, manningham or garcon in FA to replace hartline and another WR in the 5th. with the two 1sts,we grab mercilus and dwayne allen, markele martin in the 2nd, jayron hosley in the 3rd, WR in the 5th, and extra dline and oline depth with the 6th and 7th
RGIII or flynn, whichever one helps us win
Leader of the "draft Jayron Hosley in the 2nd" bandwagon
Grand Cardinal of the first holy church of brandstater
by AnishB15 on Feb 3, 2012 6:39 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Trade down!
I don’t think the Bengals would make that trade. Miami would be better off just trading Hartline for picks. It’ll be interesting to see who, if any, Miami trades before the draft.
by tpl on Feb 3, 2012 7:02 AM EST up reply actions
4th and Hartline for a 1st is crazy thinking
Marshall and a 4th not even worth a 1st
Wish we could sim this season
by biggaandbadda on Feb 3, 2012 7:25 AM EST up reply actions
By the trade value chart (I know it is a guide) our pick is worth 1350/1400
The two Bengals picks are 900 & 800, so we would have to “makeup” 300-350 points. It would take more like a 3rd but even then this isn’t Madden so not likely to ever happen.
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You know I was thinking the same thing myself...
But the fact that Todd McShay said it actually proves that we do not need another pass rusher… we should seriously consider giving Koa Misi a chance to develop into that pass rushing threat we thought he could be opposite Wake…
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
In all seriousness... We need to draft a QB in the first round..
I am returning to my previous position that no matter what we do in free agency, we need to draft one of the top 2 QBs. I personally like the idea of drafting RG3, then letting him learn how to play in the NFL from one of the best in the game. I am excited to hear that is not out of the realm of possibility. It is pretty clear that it is a huge need and they know that. It is also widely known that we need an exciting pick, and he is the guy. A year or 2 behind Manning would really help him learn how to study the game, how to break down film, and some of the intricacies of the game that you can’t learn any other way. There are plenty of franchise QBs that learned behind franchise QBs for a few years before taking over, and I can’t think of any highly drafted QBs that did this that failed, the way a guy like Jamarcus Russell failed. Brady had Bledsoe, Rodgers had Favre, and Rivers had Brees. I think that is the best way to ensure that your rookie QB learns how to play in the NFL. It is still largely up to that rookie though because it is not the starting QBs job to coach the rookies. It is the rookie’s job to study how the starting QB does everything and model their game after his game.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 3, 2012 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
maybe the new coaches could convince JT to do a Brett Favre...
I mean .. he literally needs 2 more sacks to pass Strahan…
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 3, 2012 7:59 AM EST up reply actions
I couldn't find the link
but I watched an interview with RG3 and the question was asked that there is the possibility of being drafted by the Colts and his thoughts of playing behind Peyton Manning and if he would want to start right away. I am paraphrasing but he said something like “Peyton is one of the greatest ever and I would learn as much as I could from him and he should play as long as he feels he wants to, he has earned it.”
I really wish I could find the link, it was an excellent interview (like all of RG3’s interviews are). If Manning does become available it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if we signed him we would still go for RG3. The only thing is, if Manning goes to another team (leaving Colts) I think he’ll want to play another 4 years, RG3 should be playing in 2 or less years.
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If we sign Manning we would have to say good-bye to several of our FAs.
We really don;t have the cap space to sign Manning.
J-E-S-T-S SUCK, SUCK, SUCK.
I always take life with a grain of salt, plus a slice of lime, and a shot of tequila.
are we sure he is really interested in getting paid now?
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 3, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
There is no way that would work.
If we got Manning and RGIII, that would be our entire off-season.
umm... so?
What other holes do we really have? That is our biggest hole. If we fill that there are other holes that might already be filled.
We had [Brady] down… but we didn’t kick him. We helped him up and gave him a PowerPuff Girls band-aid for his knee. What exactly did you expect would happen when we did that?
by Jason Scott_90 on Feb 4, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
Sickly pass rush vs a Quarterback... hmmm, a conundrum.
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Or both.....a double conundrum
Official member of "The Luck Fleet"
Nobody hurt a tackler like Zonk did.
by rintintinsoldier on Feb 3, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
I see your conundrum and raise you a mystery....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I wrap your mystery in an enigma.
by LimeyPhin on Feb 3, 2012 1:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Enigmatic -- isn't that what this team has been for a decade?
Official member of "The Luck Fleet"
Nobody hurt a tackler like Zonk did.
by rintintinsoldier on Feb 3, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
... I see you wrap, and dice your enigma up to a puzzle.
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Major talent dropoff...
The talent dropoff between Quinton Coples at seven to JAX and Ingram at eight to Miami is huge. If this happened in April I would be looking to trade down.
Coples has been a big debate lately and I just did a little bit more research to refresh my memory. I love the kid. He reminds me of Julius Peppers in more than just his size and athleticism. Long arms, bats down passes, but he has a passion for the game.
Anyone that questions his effort needs to watch some interviews of him.
With that said, Melvin Ingram is a good prospect but I wouldn’t want to spend a top ten pick on him at this point. Maybe if he really impresses at the combine, but at this point, is he one of the ten best players in the draft?
Having a top ten pick in the draft is a chance to get a truly special player. Trent Richardson, Dre Kirkpatrick and Luke Kuechly would all still be on the board. If I am forced to pick at 8, I would look at one of the elite talents like these guys. Kuechly would allow us to move Karlos Dansby to his natural position at OLB. Kirkpatrick would be an excellent addition to our secondary and could even open up the possibility of moving Sean Smith to safety. And I wouldn’t mind adding Trent Richardson to our backfield.
If Coples isn’t available, we could trade down and grab Andre Branch. Here’s what Bucky Brooks has to say about him:
Explosive edge rusher with extraordinary first-step quickness. Branch is still viewed as a one-trick pony due to his reliance on his speed, but his potential and production has sent his stock soaring up the charts.
You think Kuechly is going to come in and take over duties as the QB of the defense?
Why are people wanting to move a Pro Bowl ILB to OLB? He played phenomenally in Arizona during Warner’s last year, and he was IN A FOUR-THREE. Stop trying to move our best defensive player please and thanks.
More of Moore in 2012!
Coples for our new 4-3!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Karlos Dansby plays his best football as OLB in a 4-3
He can still be the leader of the defense from that position. In case you weren’t paying attention, there has been strong speculation by both the media and members of the front office that the Dolphins might switch to a 4-3 defense. This was made even more plausible by the hiring of Kevin Coyle as defensive coordinator.
Also, I am simply a blogger on this website. I am not going to personally move Karlos Dansby and I don’t think Jeff Ireland or Joe Philbin is going to listen to my opinion.
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Philbin has already said they will play in both a 3-4 & 4-3
We did the same under Nolan.
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That's PR
There is no true “4-3” or “3-4” in the NFL. All teams mix it up. But judging by what has been spoken by Ireland and Philbin and the rest, the vibe that I get is that they will be running a four man front more often than not.
Either way, we’re discussing just a small part of my comment which was that Melvin Ingram is not a top ten talent and that we will have the ability to draft an elite prospect with the eighth pick. Kuechly is just one of the prospects I mentioned. My personal opinion is that we should look to trade down. Andre Branch is similar to Quinton Coples in size and athleticism and would be available late in the first round.
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Ireland said in his Senior Bowl interview
that the Dolphins actually were in a “4-3” front 52% of the time. We called it a “3-4”, next year will probably be close to the same but we may end up calling it a “4-3”. Bottom line is we will most likely continue to play a more “hybrid” defense and a guy like Ingram could very well either put his hand down in the 4-3 or standup in the 3-4 (just like Wake). Does he deserve a top 10 selection, at this point probably not but if he is the guy you have targeted does it matter if you would select him at 8/9 or at 12 or 13 if you were picking there?
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Where did I mention we weren't going to 4-3?
Read my signature much?
More of Moore in 2012!
Coples for our new 4-3!
'Phins phor Liphe!
When Karlos Dansby was playing phenomenally in Arizona...
He was playing as a 4-3 OLB. He only played ILB in his final season in Arizona. Dansby played better in 2007 and 2008 than he did in 2009 with Arizona
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
He's versatile.
But my point was that I’m talking about taking advantage of having a top ten pick and going after talent. If the top prospects are off the board and the choice is between Luke Kuechly and Melvin Ingram, hands down it’s Kuechly.
If we drafted him, he’d play inside, Dansby would play outside and still call the plays. Then, in a few years, as Dansby slows down, we’d have our quarterback of the defense in waiting. That’s how good franchises draft, taking the best player available. In Jeff Ireland’s defense, he went that route a couple years ago and drafted Jared Odrick when we had Kendall Langford and Randy Starks. It seems to be turning out well.
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think I may still lean toward Ingram over Kuechly.
There could be other prospects I’d go with too. I also like Vontaze Burfict a lot. Burfict and Kuechly are like night and day MLBs to me. Kuechly is smart, but isn’t physically gifted. Kind of reminds me of a Zach Thomas type of LB. Burfict on the other hand is a hard hitting MLB with range and can be one of the best MLBs because of his physical talents, but he’s a little immature. I still give a slight edge to Burfict because I feel with the veteran presence of Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett next to him, I think Burfict can step in line.
Of course, #8 or #9 are far too high for Burfict, but I just feel like he can turn out the be the better player. I wouldn’t be surprised either way. Though I will say Burfict has more of a bust potential.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider.
Follow me on Twitter @Finhead83.
For realzies?
All I remember is his clutch plays in the NFC Championship game as an ILB.
More of Moore in 2012!
Coples for our new 4-3!
'Phins phor Liphe!
It's still not feasible to think he is going to be able to communicate with the other side
of the field as an OLB. MLB is the guy that has to communicate with everybody else based on his logistical location. Dansby is finally doing well in that regard, let’s not move him and cost us another half a season like we did by cutting Crowder.
More of Moore in 2012!
Coples for our new 4-3!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Off topic, but just saw an intervirw on NFL network of RGIII
From everything iread about him he seems to be just as they projected him to be. I really like the kid seems to have a head on his shoulders and down to earth. BTW! I like the mickey mouse socks. Lol!
by D0lphins4Life on Feb 3, 2012 11:00 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Now get us a plan to get him!!... and stop with the socks... lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
We are lookig to play a base 4-3 defense that can also go hybrid into a 3-4. Who would be a moe perfect addition to that defense than a 4-3 DE that can just as effectively play 3-4 OLB? Ingram is a Tweener that can have effectiveness at both spots.
We could actually shift our alignment without changing the personnel and not miss a beat. Could really screw with the opposing QB looking to take advantage of a weakness. I’m already on record as picking Ingram and I am sticking with that until I see a better option.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
Cameron Wake can do the same
and he is a better pass rusher with his hands down. Imagine Ingram or coples opposite to him
I'm really liking Andre Branch if we can't get Coples.
Not too sold on Ingram unless he’s available later on. Then again, I wouldn’t take Branch as high as eight either…
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
So Ingram is your pick at eighth overall?
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Click on the Link. I am fine with Ingram and think he is more two-dimensional than Coples. I think Coples strength is the 4-3 (like Wake) which is fine but Ingram (I believe) can handle both standing rush and hand in the ground rush better han Coples..
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
Just to be clear.
If Ingram can be had later (Final rankings won’t be known until after the combine at the earliest) than 8/9, I would prefer to see us trade back and take the shot at getting him later and going with someone else if Ingram does go before we pick. f we lose Ingram, we can still pick Vinny Curry or Andre Branch.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
Check this out.
“Plays the ‘Bandit’ LB position at Clemson. Has experience in two-point stance and dropping into coverage. Shows stiffness in hips but has quick feet for size, he gets good depth in his drops and he shows good awareness in underneath zone coverage. Appears capable of contributing as a 3-4 OLB in the NFL in some capacity
That’s about Andre Branch. I think every Dolfan is really high on Quinton Coples. The problem is, if he’s not available then there’s no other exciting pass rusher that would fit the 4-3 mold. Branch is 6"5, 260, great speed, had 4 sacks in one game against Virginia Tech, and he can play in coverage.
I’m not so sure he’s worth a top ten pick, although he’s rated the thirteenth overall prospect by Scouts Inc. I’d look to trade down and grab him in the late first round. My problem with Ingram is that he’s injury prone.
by DolfanVince86 on Feb 3, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Andre Branch is a stud
I expect him to rocket up draft boards over the next two months.
Melvin Ingram in 2012!
.. you lighting da fuse? lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
If the report about Coples work ethic
during Senior Bowl week is accurate, I don’t think Ireland will touch him. Just my opinion.
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If.....
If we get flynn in free agency. Maybe we shud jump up and grab Blackmon at 2 or 3. U can find stud lineman and linebackers in the 3rd and 4th round. With that move we cud have a very intimidating offense. Defense will always be there. We always have a good d, even without all pro players
by AEllis1 on Feb 3, 2012 4:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions
it all depends on what happens before the draft
but Coples is better
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
Miss the misery.
Need a reason for a change.
Need a reason to explain.
So turn it on again.
Don't change your mind.
You're wasting light.
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