Raising the Level of Debate.....

Don’t worry, there is more than “some”, although the immaturity can be loud (as is true in much of life).

not everyone…but I’m rec’ing this one too. It’s gonna be a long season.

lol

Wait… I am back in grad school!

Well said anyway!

lol

Landry Jones

ignore those posts. You have a right to ignore those posts just as much as you have a right to voice your opinion. What you do not have the right or, more importantly, the authority to do is to tell people they can not speak their respective opinions. That is called hypocrisy. I don’t agree with essentially anything you say, but I sure as hell respect your right to say it.

1) You repeatedly claim that the “same exact people” are complaining about Ginn, CC, etc. I see absolutely no evidence for that. Loud declarations of hatred one day and support the next likely lindicate a division of fan opinion rather than not “making up our minds”. In any case, it certainly does not indicate that the same exact people are being loud on both days. To prove your claim, you would need to show that the conflicting posts and comments are being made by the same “exact” individuals. I doubt you will succeed in that venture, not merelly because it is a difficult, but because it is likely false.

2) Joel is correct – you do not have to read many of the posts here. Additionally though, not “EVERY” post, or “EVERY” move is commented on by “negative” fans. There are plenty of “positive” posts that ironically, like you are doing here, spend their time “negatively” bashing people for being “negative” and defending players, or pointing out their successes. It is very easy to just notice the ones that make you angry, but it is a mistake to erase the numerous posts and comments that don’t fall into that category.

3) Your final point about the team quitting because people quit on the team seems baseless to me. I think you need to read the fansite of the other 31 teams in the country. Fan bases are divided and the internet is a forum for all people, even the most ornary, to voice their opinions. It is not unique to the dolphins and there is no evidence that we have it worse than other teams. There is also no evidence that it substantially impacts the performance of the team. There is no evidence that players are spending time reading fanblogs or any of the like. There is, though, a correlation between winning and crowd noise. The browns fans, considered some of the most loyal in the league, booed McCoy when he played poorly and cheered him when he palyed well.

I believe you are making a major error in reasoning with this comment. It sounds to me like you prefer, in this case, to make broad sweeping generalizations where the mob voice comes to falsely represent its constituents, the elements that bother you the most become the most prominent and therefore, erroneously, the most descriptive, and the general cause and effect relationship of cheering and winning becomes reversed.

The issue is highlighted in your line when you claimed that those who want to look on the bright side should have rights as well, as if Brantner didn’t just argue for the same thing. Of course he did argue for it and was clearly defending the rights of those who want to be “positve” as well as those who want to be “negative”

Dolphinfan4lyfe took the words outta my mouth. Couldn’t have said it better man!

but that does not make you a better fan. It makes you happy with the team regardless of how they are doing, but some of us want to see W’s.

I’ve been going thru some similar shit this year.
Hopefully I’ll plea out on a misdemeanor.
Still holding on what will happen.
Glad you were able to hold on to things to make your situation bearable.
Thanks for sharing….

Henne never comes through in the clutch, both in the Red Zone and in tight 4th quarter situations.

but the “I told you so” just comes across poorly every single time.

I told you so’s can be annoying, but just as annoying is when people do not eat their crow and admit they were wrong.

much everything sucks.

people present. Not sure that having Matty around full time would change a lot of the insanity that is happening now. Different time, different personalities and many more of them…………..

at my kid and smile knowing that it’s just a game and I have things that matter so much more day to day in my life.

I have no issue with certain individuals being called out as not being true fans. I seem to remember someone, yesterday (I believe in the quick reactions post) saying they’re going to become a Bills fan, and I believe it was TCP that said something along the lines of don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I have no issue calling out those “fans,” if that’s what you want to call them.

However, people that get upset/frustrated as to the way they’re playing right now? OK by me…because I’m one of em.

First, I tend to construe the words or phrase, “I told you so” as a noble reminder made to me by someone, with categorical authority to re-state a position of correctness, made exclusively after the occurrence of an event which was thereof questionable before it came to pass.

That’s a lot of big words just to say “somebody gets to rub it in your face when they guess right”

This is by no means a personal attack, but sometimes using a thesaurus to sound smart isn’t the best idea. Neither is using big words that you do not fully understand the meaning of that you have only “guesstimated” their definition.

I have to admit you had me completely on your side with pretty much al quotes. I still think you deserve some kudos for that. You were doing fine, even when OSW misread the point of your post talking about how people portray themselves to be “more of a fan” and insinuated it also included people who say “I told you so.” Nonetheless, the quote never did question the loyalty of those fans, but just stated how many of those “I told you so” people are perceived at the Phinsider and in society in general.

I should preface the point that I never previously said “I told you so” to any member of the Phinsider and don’t often use that statement in life. I don’t tend to construe the words or phrase “I told you so” as a shameless way of gloating towards another person because my thoughts or guess were correct.

I have not heard my this phrase from my professors, my parents, or anyone else that tries to raise their self above others and have mostly seen it from condescending individuals. I know there are ways to say you previously thought or prophetized an event without seeming like a jackass, but most of the time it takes someone of average intelligence or above to appear as if they’re not just trying to raise their own image. Your passionate and rational thoughts are refreshing to the Phinsider.

Now, I hate to do this, but I told you so. I prophetized OSW would embark on his selg-aggrandizing lecture once he read this post. Shit, I just joined the club…

While the “I told yo so” phrase can be used as a corrective measure as you suggest, it rarely ever is. The majority of the time, that phrase is used as a means to assert the superiority of one’s opinions over another. As with most things, it boils down to context. My understanding of Brantner’s post is that he is referring to those who use “I told you so” in a context where they are making themselves and their opinions superior to anyone else’s. Those posts and comments are obvious and never endear the commenter to the intended audience. Eventually, they will alienate themselves from the rest of the community, regardless of how well their thoughts and posts are articulated.

So to Brantner’s point, it’s bad form to start making posts and comments where you say “I told you so. I’m right and you’re wrong.” No one appreciates it and makes the poster/commenter look like an arrogant jerk.

"somebody gets to rub it in your face when they guess right"

To begin with, in my estimation, the vast majority of our assessments of the team and its prospects are "ill-conceived theories" precisely due to the scarcity of "empirical evidence" available to a fan. We do not witness the practices, or the game planning, are not privy to the details of in game play calling, nor relevant medical information. We only have limited knowledge of the contractual issues at play, and player scouts do not share their findings with us It is with that backdrop that I propose the following concern with the use of the phrase "I told you so".

Admittedly, I have not surveyed the uses of "I told you so" in any serious fashion, thus my conclusions are, necessarily, anecdotal. Nevertheless, in my experience, an "I told you so" is commonly proffered regardless of the quality of the claimant’s original argument. Correctly forecasting the results of a game or the success of a player is not sufficient to vindicate a prior contention founded on unsound or specious reasoning. For "I told you so" to be a useful "pedagogical tool", it is perfectly warranted to have high expectations as to the quality of what was originally "told". Failure to recognize that disagreement may be over one’s reasoning despite the apparent correctness of the conclusion is an all too common phenomenon on fansites such as this one.

Returning to my original observation, even in the case of a knowledgeable fan with exquisite reasoning, he will be, perforce, limited in his theorizing due to the above stated limitation of insider knowledge of the team. That is not to say we should not even attempt to analyze the game, nor does it mean there are no gradations of understanding such that an intelligent and well-versed fan cannot reasonably approximate a credible explanation of the team’s current situation and probable future. Even still, and in light of our limited knowledge, to assume that developments over the season necessarily vindicate our explanations such that our reasoning must unassailably be superior to that of our interlocutor… well, that strikes me as hubris.

Now, I do not believe "I told you so"s must inherently indicate hubris. There are indeed nuances to the game whose explanation may warrant a friendly, "you see, our NT is having trouble drawing the double team." Be that as it may, those are much more limited circumstances than the type of "I told you so" that Brantner is referring to in this post. Indeed, in many of those cases, the nuanced explanation may even be done without resorting to game forecasting so the "I told you so" is simply unnecessary. I submit, therefore, that context is an important part of the equation in determining the value of an "I told you so". An obvious case might be if the person making the "I told you so" claim uses phrases like "mental midgets" to refer to those who disagree with him. If the language accompanying the claim is patronizing, that serves as evidence that the claim itself is patronizing. (Indeed, one may claim that osw’s use of the "noble" parenting and professor analogy implies a certain patronizing attitude as those are hierarchical relationships ill-fitting the peer fellowship of the internet forum). A less obvious case is the attempt to validate a claim, however well reasoned, against an equally well-reasoned claim, merely because some inherent vagaries of the game happen to coincide with one’s position. That is essentially claiming that “somebody gets to rub it in your face when they guess right.”

Finally, I propose that, often times, the debate may be situated in the middle, where one side’s reasoning isn’t quite as well crafted or the circumstances not quite as vague. Even still, I believe humility to be the ever important watchword. We are not parents, nor are we pedagogues. If there is doubt as to the outcome of our predictions, that is reason to respect the differing opinions of our fellow fan even when attempting to express why we feel that our analysis has been vindicated. I do not wish to place words in Brantner’s mouth, but I assume he would accept a more hesitant "I told you so" which invites one’s interlocutor to continue to engage the conversation on equal terms.

I personally “try” and stay positive but at least understand where all the negativity is coming from as I feel it as well. I guess for me the thing that bothers me is the irrational negativity that some exhibit. Do I think Henne is the answer? No. Do I think he is a franchise QB? No. Do I think he is the main issue? No. (but certainly one that must be addressed to get to the next level) Do I think that the reason that Marshall drops a sure fire TD that probably helps up win the game falls on Henne’s shoulders? No. Do I think that the earthquake in New Zealand was Henne’s fault? Probably not but most likely no. I think those irrational comments are the ones that set folks off. Either way probably just best to take the high road, shrug your shoulders, sigh and move along.

I do think some think negatively more than others, that much I’m sure. People handle things a lot different though. Whether people consider them optimists, pessimists, or realists, they still see things differently than others. It’s just part of human nature that views will change so much.

As part of who is a true fan, that is just ridiculous. First, like Brantner said, nobody has the right to think they’re any more of a fan than the anyone else. It doesn’t matter how long you’ve followed the team or that you watched the 1-15 season (spoiler alert: most all of us did I’d bet) or that you view the team in a different light. It’s all BS to think that way.

At the same time, people shouldn’t be so insulted by stupid comments like that anyways. I don’t need anyone to tell me how much of a fan I am/am not because I don’t know anyone here outside of the Phinsider and I don’t need to justify my loyalties to anyone. Obviously, if people start saying “I’m done with the team” or “I’ll go root for Buffalo,” they’re setting themselves up for their loyalty to be questioned and shouldn’t be insulted when it is.

You didn’t say crap because I have pictures of Bacon having you gagged and flogged…