Kyle Orton Situation
by tonyy on Jul 28, 2011 11:21 PM EDT
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PrintSo for the past 12 hours or so, we barely heard any news about Orton except a small blurb from Michael Lombardi saying that the Broncos might be searching for a pick as high as the 2nd round for Orton. I personally would say they are looking for a 2nd or 3rd and there were also rumors that they wanted Randy Starks and Phillip Merling. If you ask me, we have to settle on a 3rd and Merling and maybe a 5th or something 2 years from now. Orton means more to us than we think. All offseason we heard from Omar and the front office along with every beat writer that we must and will get a QB to compete with Henne. Orton seemed to be the best fit knowing that we have Marshall here, and Mike Nolan who went against him in practice every day and knows if he is what we actually need. Not to mention Daboll to Mcdaniels connection (i'm sure they share info).
My point is, Miami is why too hush hush and secretive to ever know what they are trully thinking, plotting, negotiating on, but we didnt come that close to getting Orton just to be shown the door and end all negotiations. Vince Young gave us some leverage, but now it seems that he is Philly Bound. So, my guess and this is a well educated guess, is that we are in the midst of negotiating as we speak and hopefully will pull something together in the next 24 hours. Remember, new players can't report to camp until August 2nd I believe, so its not like he's missing any practice time, in fact he's getting reps in at Denver which is better than nothing.
Think about the Bush deal, we didnt hear ANYTHING about that until it was pretty much done, literally within an hour or 2 of the agreement. Ireland is not a push over or some scrub, he thinks rationally and knows our weaknesses better than we do. We need a qb better than Henne, and Orton happens to be the only one available, and happens to be on a team that doesn't need him and would prefer to get some compensation for him rather than having him released. The only problem is we don't know how stubborn John Elway really is so hopefully he realizes that he has no other place to ship Orton except to us.
Orton put up very good numbers last year and almost pro bowl like numbers before he got hurt in week 12 and tried to play through it for a few weeks. He was on a team with no defense, no rushing attack, and a average o-line at best. I think if he would come here, with our WR core, and Bush, and reunited with the Beast, there is no telling what stats he could put up. Remember he was actualy on pace to break Marino's yardage record at one point...the guy is smart and continues to get better every year in the NFL...with a top 5 defense and a top 10 rushing attack, we are a 10-11 win team.
Heres to hoping Orton takes his talents to South Beach, and that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to get him here, because this season pretty much could be made or broken before it even starts.
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Even the Tony McDaniel signing, no1 heard a thing until it was done...same thing is going on now...we usually don't miss out on our guys unless we get outbid
think even last year…wanted Dansby, got him…wanted Rolle, were outbid…
I have faith something is in the works, it just makes to much sense, and with Ireland, when it does, it usually gets done. Unlike Parcells who would bring in Jake Delhomme or Marc Bulger and save the money for another d-lineman.
i think the mcdaniel think was just overshadowed by the bush trade and the lingering orton trade
Miami's Superstars: Brandon Marshall, Jake Long, Karlos Dansby, Cameron Wake, Vontae Davis (just wait), Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mike Stanton, Gaby Sanchez, and Hanley Ramirez. :)
Well see
but dark clouds are rollin in if this matt morre stuff is true
Ireland , Sparano youve been given a chance dont screw this up!
"If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten"--George Carlin--
"When life gives you lemons, squeeze them on people with paper cuts"
by Mr.Phintastic on Jul 29, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
you could be right
And i must admit it is way way 2 quite in dolphin land
Contract nego.
My gut tells me that its coming down to the contract. We’ve been signing 2 year contracts so far (except for rookies) Ortin wants to be the franchise guy I have a feeling, wants to start, and be paid as one. Its a matter of taking care of that aspect as well as trying to get the other pieces to fit
Let me repost my thoughts from your last fan post ..
I like this because it also makes me look smart hahaha
Patience
I understand the frustration but lets be honest its EARLY still and lots of players are out there and while we are not linked to any quality RB doesn’t mean we won’t get one.
For example Ireland and crew could be waiting for the price to fall on Orton (the only QB with a shot at taking Henne’s spot) and we maybe holding off for a play on Reggie Bush if he comes free. Its all speculation but hold on and wait until this thing gets done cuz we only have to wait until Friday instead of 5 months
by markus_13 on Jul 26, 2011 10:08 PM PDT reply actions
Denver fan here. I’d trade Orton for Merling and a 3rd.
According to all sources, Orton was vastly better than Tebow at yesterday’s first practice. That was Fox’s first chance to have them both on the field under his supervision. Denver is not as desperate to trade Orton as you Dolphin fans hope. We are $20MM below the salary cap, have not other key players to resign and own Orton $0 in bonus money. Just his annual salary paid weekly like all other NFL players. And that doesn’t kick in until mid September.
Trading Orton for a 4th round pick makes no sense. Might as well hold on to him to see if another team’s QB goes down in preseason and we can extort them for a 1st in 2012 if that team has visions of winning big in 2011 (or their coaches/GM don’t want to get fired).
Denver has plenty of leverage here with no other viable starting QB on the market. Wasn’t Matt Moore the guy that was benched for Clausen? Yeah.. nice try.
Denver can wait longer than Miami can. We are not going to win jack squat this season and our coach/GM are brand new so their jobs are plenty safe.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
Matt Moore is simply a rumor...if its not Orton its Henne and Bulger...
I really wouldnt understand why Miami wouldnt do a 3rd and Merling, but I think the Kolb contract might be holding things up as well and I think Orton might be getting too greedy in his demands and that could also be a road block in these negotiations
Orton
Orton could be had for a 3rd alone probably so it is doubtful Merling would be tossed in anyways. As for Denver, ridding themselves of a $9 million backup would free money up elsewhere so I am sure they would be happy to unleash Orton, who will not be there next year, for some form of compensation.
As told to another Bronco fan yesterday, waiting for an injury to make a trade hardly ever works. First, another team has to lose their QB for a prolonged amount of time. Second, it has to happen in training camp or early preseason so the new QB can learn the system. Third, once the preseason starts, it is very hard for teams to free up $9 million in cap space to make room for an emergency QB trade. Your scenario is unlikely to happen. Being that there is only 2 weeks of training camp this year, it makes it even less likely another QB would go down and force a team to call Denver.
The Broncos do owe Orton a bonus. His base salary is only $7.3 million, but the Orton has a roster bonus of $1.5 million.
As for the leverage, there is little leverage on either side. The Broncos don’t have another trade partner for Orton, but the Dolphins have Vince Young they can turn to as well, knowing they could get him for a 1 or 2 year deal and then sign Orton next year with no compensation to the Broncos if Young doesn’t pan out. The Dolphins likely aren’t thrilled by that and want Orton in camp ASAP, so it is prudent to them to make a deal as well.
Either way, Denver and Miami can wait as long as they want, but if that happens, neither team wins. Denver has $9 million invested in a backup and will let Orton go next year instead of getting any compensation for him and Miami will settle on Chad Henne or Vince Young.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Just see that now in my morning check of news
Still, it doesn’t change much of anything between Denver and Miami. Denver still doesn’t have another trade partner and Miami still wants to get Orton ASAP to get him in camp and will sign a different QB if the Broncos ask too much in return. Likely QB at this point is Bulger.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
With no VY available, Miami has no other options. Bulger and Matt Moore are no where close to Orton in terms of readiness to be a starting NFL QB.
Seattle or Washington could very well realize after a few days of practice that John Beck and Charlie Whitehurst are the not best alternatives for starting QBs.
Denver should just wait, they don’t owe Orton that bonus for a while and it’s not that big a number either. Bowlen was blowing $3.5MM in bonus on Jarvis Green last season when we cut him before the season.
Denver should hold firm on a 2nd or a 3rd and a player. Miami will bite, just like they overpaid for Marshall.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
Orton and Miami
Bulger is a QB capable of starting right away, but Miami is only looking for a QB to compete with Henne. Both of them fit that mold.
Seattle already invested more money in Tavaris Jackson too and won’t make any other QB moves. Washington is a long shot on that one. You really think they’re going to make a move for Orton? Now you’re trying to dig for scenarios.
Denver owes Orton the roster bonus early in August. If you think a week is “a while,” then sure. Miami also won’t bite for a 2nd. That much is obvious.
You can also think Miami overpaid for Marshall, but that wasn’t an expensive price for a top tier NFL WR. As for the return, Denver shipped off one of the picks in a package (3 picks total) to move up and get Tebow. They got Orlando Franklin with the other one. I feel that in the end, Brandon Marshall provides a greater return to Miami than Tebow and Franklin. Besides, in both instances, Miami was able to get their 2nd round picks back. We did fine with the Marshall deal.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Not really
There is nothing wrong if we have Moore. That also doesn’t mean a deal with Orton can’t be done.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
I'm all about Orton
But I’m still waiting to see what Henne can do. If we don’t get Orton, I won’t be upset. But having him at best would upgrade our O, at worst would be a solid backup if Henne plays well but gets hurt.
That would be our luck, eh? Henne has break out season, then gets hurt first round of playoffs and we have no one to step in………………
Rookie Dolphins Fan Dylan Luc, born Oct. 26th, 2010..........Doing my part to increase the fan base......
I too am all about Orton....
im very high on Orton, and with our sick looking backfield and under-rated receiver core (i dont think ppl in the media talk enough about the talent we have @ that position, although one more “proven deep threat” wouldn’t hurt. But then again, i think Bush can do things of that nature. I would love Orton, and I hope we can get it done….even if it means giving up a 3rd and change. I feel that confident in Orton and believe if we sign him, he makes us just as good as the pats & jets (we dont capitalize their names) and instant competitors for the division and at worst for the WC.
Go Fins!!!
"I'm not pushing you away...I'm just pulling me towards myself."
Poker face
Ireland is calling Denvers bluff. By next week Denver has to be under the cap and according to Armando (I hate to say it because I hate him). Denver is about 9 million over the cap.
He's wrong
according to the Denver post anyways, with the rules of the new CBA Denver is actually well under the cap.
That's what I get for reading the "Little Bitch"
That “Little Bitch” got me again. When am I going to learn to just ignore anything he says.
Fact check.
Denver is $20MM under the cap as of today.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
I said yeserday to give a #4 and merlin plus throw in a plane ticket
Vince wants philly but does philly want Vince, wont know till 4:00 today cant chat with him before then. bringin in bulger is just vulger, and well theres always david carr he just got cut , again.
I'm willing to watch Henne in his first few practices within the next few days.
I think we call the Broncos bluff and wait for them to cut orton
"The more people I meet the more I like my dog."
Winner of The Davone Bess Little Guy Award, 2010
Co-Captain of Team Lindley
Hey Omar, errrrr, I mean, Kev. How bout an Open Thread for today’s action? You’re slippin, fella. :)
Also…a note about another possible FA RB target that seems to have slipped through the cracks – Michael Bush, anyone?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jul 29, 2011 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean, after all…2 Bush’s are better than 1…snicker.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jul 29, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
he's a free agent???
Miami's Superstars: Brandon Marshall, Jake Long, Karlos Dansby, Cameron Wake, Vontae Davis (just wait), Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mike Stanton, Gaby Sanchez, and Hanley Ramirez. :)
I believe he is, yes. I thought I saw his name on the ticket (as a FA) on NFL Network last night.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Jul 29, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
yea, we should go after him
or, if we dont get orton, maybe we will have the money for ahmad
Miami's Superstars: Brandon Marshall, Jake Long, Karlos Dansby, Cameron Wake, Vontae Davis (just wait), Lebron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Mike Stanton, Gaby Sanchez, and Hanley Ramirez. :)
He's a restricted free agent
He’s not going anywhere. As for Ahmad, he will still be very expensive. I’d rather get someone like Snelling and get a quality guard.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
you got it
"The more people I meet the more I like my dog."
Winner of The Davone Bess Little Guy Award, 2010
Co-Captain of Team Lindley
I say Denver calls Miami’s bluff that they’ll sign Matt Moore of let Henne be the uncontested starting QB. What if Henne plays like he did in 2010? What if he gets injured?
Pat Devlin going to start? Bring in Favre?
Denver knows your coach and GM are on a short leash. Hell, your owner already tried to replace the coach. It’s win no for Miami or good bye GM….
Denver should hold firm on their demand for a 2nd rounder.
"Well at least we picked a good year to suck" said Pat Bowlen after countersigning Von Miller's rookie contract.
2nd is way too high...3rd and Merling should be more than enough for a guy that if all else stays the same you will eventually cut by season's end..
so you stay stubborn and pay 9 million dollars to watch a guy sit on the bench or stunt the development of Tebow just to spite Miami? Makes no sense, I say you take what you can get, no1 else is calling for him
2nd really is not too high.
Guys if we had a crystal ball and could draft our second round pick and be guaranteed an Orton caliber QB would you do it?
It’s only too high if you can get a better deal elsewhere… like Vince Young for no picks.
we can't trade our 2nd because we'll need it next year to trade for Luck regardless
Honestly 3rd and Merling is as high as I’d go and I want Orton more than any other FA out there
Laces out!
Editor of the Wildcat Weekly after every Victory
-2008 AFC East Champions-
BRANDON MARSHALL- FUTURE MIAMI HOF WR!!!!!
2nd is high
Orton is a good QB, but let’s stop thinking he was a top 10 QB in the NFL. We could’ve offered the Redskins our first round pick for Haynesworth by your logic. Chances are we wouldn’t find anyone of his caliber in the draft…
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Bluff or not
There is no way Denver pays Orton $9 mil to sit on the bench. He will be traded or let go at some point. Although it seems Denver has more leverage than Miami with Vince Young now commited.
Miami really has only two options. Get Young to reconsider and sign with Miami or suck it up and give Denver more than we want to.
And what does Denver get out of it?
Miami isn’t necessarily looking to replace Henne. They said their goal is to get someone to compete with him. Moore isn’t the ideal scenario, but it works. Marc Bulger is probably a more likely scenario. That still fits into the FO’s plan, but it is just a different QB.
They get a $9 million disgruntled backup and they lose him next year with no compensation. You act like the Broncos holding on to Orton is a win over Miami.
Denver can stand firm if they want. Miami will go elsewhere. If needed, they’ll get him next year with no compensation or the Broncos will end up releasing him because they want to use that cap space.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
this gets more interesting by the minute
michaelombardi
Everyone in the league believes that Denver cannot keep Orton on the team when the cap starts today—so Miami just sits and waits…
ORTON WILL NOT BE A DOLPHIN....
Signing of Matt Moore all but confirms this…
by PhinnyFromItaly on Jul 29, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions
yes we know this now...clearly this was pre signing of the amazing marino like matt moore
now we can all continue to go into another year and dread our qb and continue to make excuses of why he still can’t get the job done…FUCKIN HENNE SUCKS!….even Omar wrote today his sidekick commented on the first Henne pass he saw “what an ugly pass”…this is supposed to be our starting qb…
Forget Orton he's yesterdays spilt beans!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Jul 29, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
The way I see it
Denver needs a running back. They don’t have enough money for one if they stick with Orton. They won’t trade Orton until Miami gives them a 2nd rounder. I think they’ll have to give in at some point, if not then they’re screwed.
"I'm just a player trying to do what I'm told"--Brandon Marshall
"Ima take my talents to South Beach"--LeBron James
"Here comes the giant royal penis"--Dan LeBatard
Officially strapped on to Ryan "El Capitan" Lindley's bandwagon 2012
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