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State of the Miami Dolphins Roster: Cornerbacks

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This post is part of a series of posts that will break down and evaluate the Miami Dolphins position by position. If you haven't read up on how players are being classified (the number and letter that follow each player's name), you can read this post explaining the evaluation system. You can also read the previous posts in this series by clicking here.

No I didn't forget. I actually received two e-mails over the weekend asking me if I had finished up this series yet. So I apologize for getting side-tracked with so much other news out there. Time to get back at it.

We have two positions to discuss before wrapping up this series of posts. Today we'll focus on the team's cornerbacks - a unit that is probably underrated by some. The Dolphins, though, did finish 8th in the league in defending the pass - an improvement from finishing 2009 ranked 24th in pass defense.

Though opposing quarterbacks had a similar completion percentage against Miami's secondary in 2010 as in 2009 (57%), the Dolphins did a much better job at limiting the big play. They allowed 7.1 yards per attempt in 2010, over a yard less than the previous season.

Of course, there's still room for improvement. But the unit is young and very talented.

Onto the evaluations...

Star-divide

Vontae Davis (2-C). At only 23, Vontae has become one of the best young corners in the league. He's physical and can matchup with any receiver. He still goes through growing pains, though. And he needs to do a better job at getting into position to make a play. But his potential is unlimited and he should continue to only get better and better as he matures and learns the nuances of playing the position in this league.

Sean Smith (2-C). I'm not quite sure why some fans insist on criticizing Smith. Pretty much everything I said about Vontae can be said about Smith. In fact, he might be the better cover corner. He beat out Vontae in 2009 for the starting job and has never looked back. Does he need to bring in some of those passes that hit his hands? Of course. And he will. He actually has good hands. For those that insist on comparing Smith and Davis, think of it like this. Smith is the better cover corner right now. Davis is the better playmaker. But instead of comparing the two, just enjoy the fact that we get to watch the best young cornerback tandem in the league week in and week out as they slowly become outstanding players.

Will Allen (2-B). I was thrilled to see the Dolphins re-sign the veteran cornerback. If he's healthy, he'll instantly upgrade this secondary - taking the starting nickel spot. I don't think he'll beat out either of the two young corners on the outside. But he should be able to fill the hole at the toughest position on defense to play (other than nose tackle). Also don't underestimate the effect of having the vet back to work with Davis and Smith as they did in 2009. Allen is a great guy for this team - both on the field and in the locker room.

Nolan Carroll (3-D). This kid had a very solid rookie campaign in 2009. He's got great measurables and has a future in this league as a boundary corner. I'm eager to see how he progresses now after a surprisingly strong rookie campaign. Will he take that next step?

Benny Sapp (3-E). I might have a lower grade on Sapp than some would. Maybe I'm being hard on him. He wasn't bad as the team's nickel corner last year. But I don't see much upside in the 30 year old and he caused me to throw things at the television more times than I would have liked. But for now, he's insurance in case Allen suffers a set back.

Nate Ness (3-D). Ness was a stand-out during training camp last year, making the switch from safety to corner. He's flashed some potential, though, and is a solid special teams guy. I just don't know if the Dolphins will have room for an additional cornerback on the roster in 2011. He's a kid with some upside, though, if a team can afford to invest time into him.

Contract situations: Will Allen's deal was only for one year, meaning he'll be free again after the season. He is known to like playing here in Miami, though. So if the Dolphins wanted him, he'd probably come back. Benny Sapp is also in the final year of his deal with the Dolphins. He's due $1.9 million - which could prove to be too rich for this organization's blood by September assuming Allen makes it through camp healthy.

Outlook: Like I said, I really like this group. There are three young guys here who all have a lot of upside - Davis and Smith in particular. I don't see this unit changing much, though I wouldn't be shocked to see the Dolphins add a developmental corner who might have the ability (lateral quickness, for example) to play the nickel.

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When you break it out like this, I have to like our CB situation...

I know there was some past chatter about drafting/signing another CB, but I think we’re pretty much set in this area…several other priorities this off-season…as strange as the off-season is becoming.

President of the "Do What You Have to Do to Draft Luck in '12" FanClub.

by cordy_1971 on Mar 15, 2011 6:43 AM EDT reply actions  

I wood love to turn davis into a recking machine at safty but no one is lisening to me any more!

Woodson world-class type or maybe sumthing close!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 15, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea

why wouldent you want to pull vontae out of position, into a spot that he has not played in his life (sarcasem)

by Bobby Schonger on Mar 16, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ibet it will cum natural to him in 5 or 6 years, i just don't think bell will be around then!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 17, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Err 2 or 3 years!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 17, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha ha, you like? Tazmanian butt devil!!!!!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 17, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha ha; beached whale alert, please evacuate!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 17, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our secondary is quite talented....but

I disagree with your statement about the best young corners in the league. Ours our top five if not runner up but, I have to give that title to the Bengals.

I also think that the rating on Vontae and Smith both are rated too low. IMO they both have earned a 2-B level at least. I cannot recall a corner in my 37 years who hits as hard as Vontae does. He also has leaped over Randy Moss to make an interception or two. I can’t recall anybody else leaping over Randy Moss ever. And Tom Brady consistently goes 300+ passes in the NFL without an interception. To intercept such a pass from Brady to Moss is nothing short of incredible.

If Smith would have caught any number of the potential picks that bouced off his hands so far he would definitely be rated higher as well. As far as I am concerned breaking the play up is the primary responsibility for any CB. Catching the ball is totally a bonus. To be in the right position to break the play up shows the talent, not the hands.

But a secondary that stays together plays better and better together. Our boys are only going to improve the longer the unit stays intact. Maybe this season we will earn the title of the best young corners in the league. We certainly stand a chance.

by labrat3105 on Mar 15, 2011 8:11 AM EDT reply actions  

LOL thanks joel311

I see now that only veteran players get the B classification. I read it the first time and have no excuse for the error. I feel kinda like a smacked a$$. They must then be in a “tweener” category somewhere between 2-C and A according to my new, completely fabricated, system o_O

by labrat3105 on Mar 15, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

XD

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looking good here

Kacy Rodgers Our D-Line Coach. Got to give him some credit.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Play to win

by 54 on Mar 15, 2011 9:08 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

We have 2 have 4 VG cb's to controll the dime.

Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
Who owns this shithole? - Will Muny

by Flip-her on Mar 17, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

sorry I'm late.

Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
Who owns this shithole? - Will Muny

by Flip-her on Mar 17, 2011 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

very good?

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

The CB Situation

Another part that is overlooked is that Vontae Davis and Will Allen are great tacklers and provide a lot of help to the run defense as well. Having guys on the perimeter that can defend the run does a lot to prevent some big runs.

Smith and Davis are a great compliment to each other. Smith has been better in coverage, but Davis handles physical WRs better than Smith. Thus, Smith may be a better matchup against certain WRs while Davis would be better than Smith against physical WRs. I’d like to see the Dolphins actually use them to continuously assign them against a WR more than they have been.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

who covers who

vontae covers the deep threat, fast, quick. sean covers tall recivers hes 6’3

by Bobby Schonger on Mar 16, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The "Deep Threat"

is usually a tall player. Vontae covers their best receiver, and sometimes that matchup is unfavorable (actually the quickest underneath receiver gave him the most problems). As for Sean I think his height poses more problems than it fixs.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 17, 2011 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't Sean have a lower % when thrown at than Davis in 09 and 10?

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would not be surprised if Sapp is released between June and August.

You will rarely find a 4th or 5th string CB (5th if Carroll beats him out in dime packages) survive preseason if they’re over 30 years-old and a younger, viable option is behind him. Besides, you expect quality special teams play from a 4th of 5th CB. Ness has more ability on special teams.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

How can you say Sean Smith

“never looked back” when he lost his starting job to Jason Allen?

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 15, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions  

Other than that,

I agree with the rest of your points.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 15, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Smith had trouble with Nolan's system early. Nolan played more zone than PP.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly my point.

That’s not exactly “never looking back” when you lose your starting job.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 15, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

because from what I hear...

it wasn’t that Jason Allen was better – but that Smith was “coasting”. So the coaches wanted to send a message.

by Matty I on Mar 15, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats

Exactly what I heard..he was getting too cocky..jason allen sucked..and whenever allen was having trouble..they threw smith in..ha! Smith is a beast!!!..getting his jersey is a must this season!

IM HUNGRY, FEED THE WOLF

by dolfan702 on Mar 16, 2011 1:36 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Its good that they benched Smith for a little while

Let’s the players know that your job is not safe no matter who you are. I hated Jason Allen, big time 1st round bust.

by Redeyedbandit on Mar 16, 2011 3:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i think

They gave jason allen too much time and money..they give him 5 years and pat white 3 games and 5 pass att. Its crazy how offense and defense chances are so different..if u give up a t.d pass its ok. But if you throw incomplete passes but smash on new england on the ground you get cut..lol FO needs to put there head on strait on developing players!

IM HUNGRY, FEED THE WOLF

by dolfan702 on Mar 16, 2011 10:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

only corner i see us drafting is a guy who is a return specialist..

Question is (and this is dreaming I know this will never happen) but what if patrick patterson falls.. again I know this won’t happen like ever but he would be a deion sanders kind of player the broncos are probally going to pick up..

by west coast phinfan on Mar 15, 2011 10:51 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I like the Phins CB's but I am not sure any of them are "elite" or will ever be "elite".

This is a good, solid set of young CB’s. I don’t see Smith or Davis as being man to man, shut down CB’s which will keep them from being considered elite like Revis, Asomugha, Woodson, Baily, etc. I actually like Smith because of his size and man coverage skills to get closer to “elite” status than Davis.

For this defense to get to the next level, an elite level defense in the Packers, Steelers, Jets mold, the CB’s need to get better. They need to play man better to let Nolan use his more exotic blitz packages. They need to catch the football and create TO’s. They need to take the INT’s and score TD’s.

I see Smith potentially becoming like Antonio Cromartie (without the 15 kids!). A tall, ball hawking, man coverage CB. Not elite, but a very good CB for a number of years. He might make a couple of Pro Bowl’s but will never be elevated to the level of the elite guys.

I see Davis potentially becoming like Ronde Barber. A very good, zone coverage CB that can support the run effectively. Barber has had a very good career, but I don’t think he was ever considered “elite”. I can see Davis making a couple of Pro Bowls, being a quality starting CB in the league, and then moving to FS (I think his natural postion in the NFL).

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

I disagree.

I think Davis has the potential to be elite. We’ll have a better idea after his 3rd season.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 15, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I have stated in the past that Davis has problems with his hip turn and accelerating out of breaks. These are things that can’t necessarily be taught. They are athletic traits. Those two things are why he consistently gets beat deep in man coverage over the past two years. It is also why Nolan ran a lot more zone coverage last year than what he usually does because Nolan couldn’t trust his CB’s in man to use his blitz packages.

Watch the video in the link below against the Packers. Look at how stiff Davis is in his back pedal and how hard it is for him to change directions. Granted this is against Greg Jennings, a very good WR, but athletically this really exposes Davis limitations. I don’t think that after this game it was an accident that Nolan limited Davis’ man coverage responsibilities.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b6502b/GameDay-Dolphins-vs-Packers-highlights

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Davis

Davis has all the physical tools to succeed at the NFL. Turning the hips is a technique that can be and is taught. Davis also was not consistently beat deep last year as he was able to show a lot of progress as a corner. I find it strange that you say Davis is limited athletically when he is the most athletically gifted player in the Dolphins’ secondary.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is becoming increasingly common around here

for someone to say agree to disagree, and then continue arguing O_o

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 15, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

We're going to have to agree to disagree

Because I don’t find that pretty commong around here…

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see what you mean.

I will agree to disagree with you - as long as you understand that I'm right.

by Tunaflipper on Mar 15, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh heck, I was just commenting so I could shamelessly advertise my sig...

I will agree to disagree with you - as long as you understand that I'm right.

by Tunaflipper on Mar 15, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

LMAO

I totally missed it.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Big words like, *of* and *the* throw you off.......

"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice

by Alpha6 on Mar 16, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can't understand you when you talk like that!

Speak with pictures please!

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh huh ha!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

What an Icon....[I love beavers]

Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
Who owns this shithole? - Will Muny

by Flip-her on Mar 17, 2011 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Especially wild ones....

"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice

by Alpha6 on Mar 17, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

You been wantin to say that sence we meet, err comunacated!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 17, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah If You Didn't Think You Were Such A Damn Know It All

I read all the posts and you are always the one correcting everyone and making it sound like your opinion is always right.

Think we found our new GM when Jeff Ireland’s gone.

Lol!

by Redeyedbandit on Mar 16, 2011 3:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Aren't we always supposed to sound like our opinion is always right?

I will agree to disagree with you - as long as you understand that I'm right.

by Tunaflipper on Mar 16, 2011 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

And if they disagree with your opinion...

Type in bold and underline the words to provide them more meaning. Perhaps then the other person will agree…

- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.

by Finhead83 on Mar 16, 2011 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shhh

Some people can’t take intellectualism.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry he stuck to you...

after you helped me shake him off, joel.

Keep the faith.

by urbino on Mar 16, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awwww How Cute!!!!!

Hey Urbino does Joel change your diaper too?
Or do you give him a foot massage just to show him you got his back?

LOL

by Redeyedbandit on Mar 17, 2011 3:14 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

People named red eye shouldn't *poke* fun... LOL!!!

"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice

by Alpha6 on Mar 17, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

Could be worse….

People named brown eye!

"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice

by Alpha6 on Mar 17, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, the Browns Orlando Brown took it in the brown eye...

"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice

by Alpha6 on Mar 18, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

My opinion *is* always right!

O_o

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly :P

It wouldn’t be your opinion if you didn’t think it was right!

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's just an opinion

You make it sound like its a fact.

by Redeyedbandit on Mar 16, 2011 5:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I use "IMO" far more than the average around here.

Get over it.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good For You.

Get over it huh? Nah, I’ll just keep busting your chops.

by Redeyedbandit on Mar 16, 2011 10:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The video

In the video, you can also see Davis was beat by a double move. It was great route running by Jennings to sell Davis on the out. Davis was beat by the fake, not because of poor technique or limited athletic ability.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Poor technique and limited athletic ability are reasons why that route was run.

The OC for GB called that play to specifically isolate Davis on Jennings in man. Why was the play called? Because Davis is susceptible to a double move and getting beat deep. Why is Davis susceptible to a double move? Because he doesn’t turn his hips well, doesn’t accelerate out of a break well, and doesn’t have elite make up speed. All of the issues Davis has in man coverage can be seen in that one play.

Does the OC for GB call that play if Jennings is isolated on Revis? Woodson? I don’t think so because those guys have proven that they have the ability to cover that play.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

That play had nothing to do....

With Davis being susceptible to a double move and not turning his hips well…. The problem Davis has is that he is to aggressive and tends to react to soon to what he sees….. That is the real reason why and it has nothing to do with his ability or lack of…….

by Dolfan_PTY on Mar 15, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

So Revis or Asomugha aren't aggressive?

Those guys are aggressive and yet have the ability to still adjust to a double move. There are reasons why these routes are called against certain defenders and aren’t called against other defenders.

This play was the OC doing his homework and taking advantage of a defender. You say that the OC took advantage of the aggressiveness of Davis. I say that OC took advantage of the lack of ability of Davis to change directions. We both could be right.

Regardless of who is right, the fact remains that Nolan limited Davis’ man coverage later in this game and later in the year.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The routes

WRs run that route all the time hoping to create even the slightest bit of separation. It has nothing to do with poor technique or limited athletic ability. Davis is not the only CB susceptible of a double move and getting beat deep. If you want to use this one instance, you could claim Revis’ mistake against Ginn was even worse since Ginn ran a fly with no double move. You can look at one play and make a poor assumption on any player. Davis’ fault on the play wasn’t technique or limited ability. He bit on the route and paid for it. It’s that simple. It happens to even very good CBs.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't make this claim based on one play. I base it on watching every play of every game Davis has played multiple times. This one play though puts into focus all of Davis' issues in man coverage.

The highlight isolates exactly what OC’s on other teams see when they get him in man coverage. It also highlights what Nolan sees everyday in practice and on film.

The most important part of coaching is putting your guys in the best possible position to succeed. That means calling schemes that play to the strengths of players. Nolan’s schemes called for Davis to play zone the majority of the time. Because that is Davis’ strength. In Denver the year before, Nolan schemes called for more man coverage. Because that is Champ Bailey’s strength. Nolan adjusts to the strengths of his talent. That is what makes him so good as a DC.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The term I used was TO aggressive.....

All corners have to be aggressive but when you are “overly” aggressive or TO aggressive you tend to react TO SOON to what your seeing or your instincts tell you and that is his problem…. More experienced players like Revis etc, are aggressive however they are experienced enough to be patient and not to OVER-REACT to what they are seeing therefor not falling for double moves etc as often as he does….. If you have ever played any team sports you will have an idea of what I am talking about its not only football its ANY team sport……

by Dolfan_PTY on Mar 15, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

too*

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 15, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get it. I just don't agree.

As an offensive coach you look for weaknesses in your opponent that you can exploit. Then you try to put your players in a position to exploit that weakness. Sometimes you go after an aggressive player hoping he bits on a double move, for example. Sometimes you go after a player because your player has a physical advantage over the defender, being taller for example. Sometimes you just make that defender do things that they aren’t very good at doing and you set your game plan around that.

I think the OC for GB had these thoughts in his mind when he diagnosed how to beat Davis. That big play wasn’t an accident. It was purposely put in the game plan and executed to perfection because the OC had a very good idea that it would work.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vontae Davis is a far better player than i think you are giving him credit for.

I think Vontae is the most gifted player we have in our secondary athletically. He is an amazing specimen and has tremondous drive, passion and work ethic.

Now i agree those things have not been the issues. In Vontaes carreer he has had trouble with hip flexinbility and vision. The biggest issue I think coming into the league though was timing both in the use of his hands as well as foot placement and diagnosing plays. However Vontae Davis made huge strides in 2010. Vontae got better every week last year, and thats with coming into the year playing more disciplined football. He gave up some big plays and he made a few fundamental and strategical errors, especially earlier in the season, but as a whole I cant see how you dont realize how far he has come. He is far more consistant than he was last year. He is more fluid in and out of breaks, his man coverage is much better especially in press and the stats show these drastic improvements. Toward the end of the year Vontae had a few bad plays in the Buffalo game whilst covering Stevie Johnson. But Stevis Johnson is a great player with a unique skillset who Vontae in his number one corner role typically wouldnt cover. He will learn from that game. As a whole though I dont understand how someone couldnt feel as though Vontae Davis is the best corner on our team but a fair ways.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 15, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I give him credit for being a good player. But Davis is no where near "great" IMO.

And I don’t see him ever being great. He got better in ‘10 because Nolan played to his abilities as a zone coverage corner. Nolan didn’t let him play press as much toward the end of the year. Why? Because Davis isn’t very good at it.

Davis’ best coverage position is off, zone coverage. As soon as he has to turn his back to the QB, like in press coverage, he loses effectiveness. In man, as soon as he has to turn his hips, he loses effectiveness. Nolan saw all of this and adjusted his scheme. If you paid attention to the games you would have noticed how differently the coverage schemes were compared to earlier in the year.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vontae played alot of press last year.

The play that your talking about wasnt press coverage but Vontae Davis was assigned his fair share of press coverage last season. As a defense we ran alot more zone pressure schemes but in terms of what Vontae is required to do in our new defensive scheme, the changes have most been in run support. Now i agre our coverage schemes were very different at the end of the year than at the beggining of the season, even in terms of what Vontaes coverages were but alot of Vontae Davis role changes came due to trust and devolopment as a corner.

You also continue to harp on hip flexibility was has greatly improved. Toward the end of the season we were content with isolating Vontae in press (sometimes sliding a zone underneath but not always) and letting him play. Vontae is an aggressive and physical corner, but his technigue especially in leverage is better than your giving him credit for. For example in press coverage something he has begun to master is the ability to look and lean which defies your logic of bad hip movement.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 16, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

i really think you are drastically

understating Davis devolopment as a player.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 16, 2011 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are right, I don't see the development as a player that you do.

Davis’ improvement from ‘09 to ’10 was due to Nolan adjusting the defense, IMO, not in any physical development by Davis. The issues he had in man in ’09 were the same issues he had in ’10. He just wasn’t put in the situation of covering man as much in ’10.

I like Davis as a player, but he doesn’t have the tools to be great. Devon McCourty, drafted #27 last year for the Patriots, had better stats and show the man coverage ability that Davis doesn’t have. He is already a better player than Davis, IMO, and has a much higher ceiling while being younger. For Davis to become great or elite he will have to surpass at least 2 CB’s in his own division: McCourty and Revis. That doesn’t count all the other CB’s in the league that he has to leapfrog.

Davis has a lot of ground to make up on guys who are basically his age. I just don’t see it happening. He will always be one or two notches below the elite players at the position.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 16, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

first off comparing Davis to Revis is kind of silly to me. Darrelle Revis is the best corner in the league by a long shot, I dont expect Vontae to play at Revis level at any point in his carreer. I strongly disagree about Vonates devolopment and about where Devin McCourty is in relation to Vontae Davis.

But we are just not going to agree, Vontae Davis is an elite player right now, he isnt Darrelle Revis but as a whole he is one of the best corners in the league. Hes really a great player.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 16, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Compare

Vontae Davis to Will Allen for example. Your making a huge deal over a few misteps by an aggressive corner mostly in terms of hip flexion. Look a guy like Will Allen before he got hurt, those are problems in hip flexion, vision, improper use of leverage and atrocious footwork. It became quickly apparant by the start of the 2009 season that Will Allens work ethic and as a result his technique and fundamentals were deteriorating. Compare the problems Will Allen was having then to what Vontaes issues are now, there is a huge gap between them. With Vontae Davis we know he will mistakes but we arent afraid to give him big assignments and lock him down in press coverage. With Will Allen we were becoming afraid to do that.

Adding in his injuries and legal issues i dont understand at all why The Dolphins resigned him. Benny Sapp is a much better player than Will Allen is at this point of his career.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 16, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

But Will Allen was never great or elite. Allen was just good.

Fans tend to over evaluate their own players. I tend to under evaluate players. I admit that. But if the arguement for Vontae Davis is going to turn into Will Allen, then we agree because Will Allen was never great.

I also don’t think the Phins should have resigned Allen. We agree on that point.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 16, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

i was just using Will Allen as..

as an example. Im glad to see that we agree that signing Will Allen was a bad deal.Many fans I think are being far too overly optimistic about what value he will bring to the team next year. I also agree he was never great but he was afar better corner in 2007 than he was only two years later at the start of the 2009 season. As for Vontae I think he deserves alot more credit thab your giving him but its ok.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 16, 2011 8:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Will Allen was great in 08 and the beginning of 09.

He might not get the picks, but he won’t allow the receptions either. Sometimes, especially on defense, it is about the play that didn’t happen that counts. You will need to get two very good safeties to create turnovers, but I would be fine if we had two CBs that play like WA the next ten years as long as we had other playmakers to take the ball away.

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by PotM on Mar 16, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will Allen let no pass be completed to his man against Indy in 09.

Bad choice, IMO, to say his play was deteriorating.

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 16, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was in and out of the game

against Indy. He also had two picks against The Bills but these stats are deceptive. He got beat multiple times in critical situations in the Falcons game, again in the San Diego game including two plays were he fell on the coverage, again against the Jets including the huge PI that gave them the ball at the 1 yard line and got hurt in the Saints game.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 17, 2011 6:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even after all that, after starting 5 games,

he had the second lowest comp % when thrown at. Just under 40%. That is great when the only guy below him was Revis.

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't just Johnson, a #2 at best in the NFL, who

made plays on Davis. UDFas made plays on him. I think adjusting and making play on the ball is what he needs to work on as it isn’t consistent. Sometimes he’ll do great, but he also has complete meltdowns.

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 16, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasnt talking about Calvin Johnson

Calvin made a few plays but as a whole Vontae and others played a pretty solid game covering one of the best receivers in the league. Vontaes worst game of the second half of the year was a gainst Buffalo covering Stevie Johnson a receiver whos attributes are abnormal to what Vontae will typically see. Credit to Steve Johnson hes a great young player and Vontae struggled on him but Vontae almost never sees receivers like him.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 17, 2011 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Johnson is big, tall but not fast.

He is basically Joe Jurevicius all over again.

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I hope your not talking about Calvin Johnson

but even if your talking about Stevie I dont see how either would draw comparison to Joe Jurevicious

"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
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by Deuce Black on Mar 17, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tall, big, so-so speed, great hands,

finds ways to get open. That describes Stevie and JJ

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually I think it was sean smith that was covering Johnson

in that game.

"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
Dez Bryant...enough said
Racks on racks on racks
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by Deuce Black on Mar 17, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ummm
It wasn’t just Johnson, a #2 at best in the NFL, who

made plays on Davis. UDFas made plays on him.

Those same players made plays on Smith also whats the difference?

"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
Dez Bryant...enough said
Racks on racks on racks
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by Deuce Black on Mar 17, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember only Stevie makin plays on Smith, not all the WRs

Buf had, but I might be wrong.

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was one play.

It was a good call, especially off of the turnover, Vontae was isolated on an island and bit too aggresively for the designated coverage. However as i said that was one play. To make accurate assesments on a player you need to look at their entire body of work and look at their improvement as a whole. When you do this for Vontae i think that body of work shows great improvement.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 15, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

idk if they have or would have called that play...

But what you have to look at is the experience either player has at their respective positions. Jennings has quite a few more years NFL experience on Davis,and your comparing a corner that’s in his second year to a reciever that his team just won the superbowl,and with just one play to validate that he will not become an elite corner.

Okay,so he isn’t fluid with his hip movement,yet…okay so Smith dropped A LOT of passes that could have been pick 6s…How you see it is the fact that unless the reciever was named Jennings,Moss,Moss,etc. No QB felt comfortable throwing in Davis’ direction.

Its the same thing with the Revis’ and Asomoura’s “spelling” Woodsons. In fact,later in the season,people threw more to the center of the field towards the linebackers and safeties,giving a testament to the play of both Smith AND Davis.

by dolphinfan4lyfe on Mar 15, 2011 7:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

By the way, that long TD pass by Green Bay was a 2 man route with max protection. It does work when you have good WR and QB play!

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not terrible. Davis is a good player. He was the safe pick in that draft that filled a need.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree. Every pick is a crapshoot. What I mean by safe is he was the highest rated player available at a position of need.

In this regard it was a safe pick. If Davis sucked, the FO had a fall back position because of this.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not following...

If the pick was considered safe because Davis was the highest rated player available of need, what makes it safe? Is it because he was the highest rated? If so, every pick is a safe pick to the team that drafts the player. Or is it the fact that because he was at a position of need that made it safe? If Davis sucked, the Dolphins would still feel the effects of choosing a player that was a bust. Whether or not the player was drafted at a position of need or not, I don’t see how that is considered safe.

To me, it sounds that drafting Vontae Davis was just as “safe” as drafting Jason Allen.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

to me safe

means “best” in terms being pr ready. Drafting a player who has a smaller learning curve and an easily adaptable style to the NFL. BY this logic Jake Long wasa “safe” pick for example. Also by this logic there is no way Vontae could be considered a "safe’ pick. He had a very high ceiling but lacked in many of the necessary fundamental tools required to make the transition. It has taken time for Vontae to devolop.

i think thats all the term means.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 15, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would agree with that theory

Nobody will criticize the team much if they draft the player expected for that slot. Plus it came down to Long and Ryan. OTs aren’t always considered a lock to be great, but it was known Long would at least be very good at one of the tackle positions and would be good for the running game. By that, yes, I would say Long was a safe pick.

- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
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by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is safe because it was a pick of need with the highest rated player on the board at the position of need.

This is how GM’s cover themselves. If a 1st round player doesn’t pan out, they state the took the highest rated player at a position of need, that makes it safe. Davis wasn’t or shouldn’t have been considered best player available at that pick, not with Matthews still on the board. But he was the best player available at a specific position making it safe.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Then every pick would be safe by a team.

They can always justify the need and how the player was the highest ranked on their board.

- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah moss freaked on that interception!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 15, 2011 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

last i checked he wasnt exactly the "safe" pick coming out of college

People were arguing that he’d have his brothers temperment,be selfish,and kind of a diva out of the corner position.

As a matter of fact,I can remember even a few cases where people even on here were against drafting the guy.

First,look how that turned out. Second,just goes to show not EVERYONE knows what they are talking about.

One thing you also have to realize is,not only was he making improvements,but he was doing it in his second defensive system in just as many years as he’s been in the league. Talk about he isn’t going to be great all you want,but this kid has made very few mistakes coming into this league as a testement that no true qb wants to find himself throwing his way very often.

by dolphinfan4lyfe on Mar 15, 2011 10:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Davis

I think Davis definitely has the potential to become elite. I think he’ll also be fine working in man coverage. I don’t see any reason to think Davis will transition to FS either.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

See the link and explanation above.

Eventually Davis will transition to FS. That’s what zone coverage CB’s do. Davis struggles in man against WR’s but would excel in man against TE’s and RB’s which he could do at safety.

When I look at Davis I see Antrel Rolle. A good CB that transitions into a great FS. A FS that can play center field with ball skills. A FS that can tackle.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rolle

Rolle had other issues that led to his move to FS. Rolle looked into the backfield way too much, was caught with play actions, and just did not have the speed to catch up to WRs if they beat his press coverage. Rolle was projected as a FS by many teams when he was drafted. Teams did not have the same projections for Davis.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Davis has the same issues when in press coverage. Why do you think Nolan limited that technique?

I am not saying Davis is a bad player. But he has limitations physically that affects the way he plays his position.

I think Mike Nolan is one of the best DC’s in the NFL. I trust what he does because he has a proven track record. What did he do differently with Davis in ’10 that was different than what PP did in ’09?

One, Nolan played considerably more zone.

Two, in man situations, Nolan had Davis played off the WR instead of pressing. A lot of the man coverage played last year had the CB opposite Davis playing press with Davis playing off man.

Three, Nolan rotated his CB’s into a deep zone based on motion. Some of Davis’ best pass break-ups were the result of him playing a traditional FS position (Same with Smith for that matter).

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nolan

Nolan runs a different scheme than PP. Nolan has always ran a lot of zone blitzing. He does that because he likes his defenses to be in an attacking state of mind.

Davis played his share of press and was successful at it much of the time. I would also disagree about Davis’ best performances coming in a deep zone (there is also more to a FS than deep zone, thus it is not a FS position). Davis has had times where he played extremely well when in man-to-man and was able to defend big plays even when he did not have safety help.

by Finhead83 on Mar 15, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

if davis was going to play safety,id see him playing more of a strong safety,just like id see smith as a free safety

But both are solid corners that improve each year,and have already established themselves as one of the better if not the best young duo in the NFL.

Personally if you ask me,if Carrol and Ness continue to improve,our secondary along with Dline other than NT are one of the two positions on D that we DON’T have to look to improve.

by dolphinfan4lyfe on Mar 15, 2011 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think Davis would be an INT machine if he was allowed to play center field in a zone defense.

I think if he is back pedaling, able to see the route combination, read the QB, and then break on the ball, Davis is at his best. A lot of his pass break-ups this year he did exactly this sequence at CB. Now imagine if he could do the same thing from the middle of the field.

"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

by ct1361 on Mar 15, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

dont disagree

its not like smith and davis have huge celings, plus amazing athletic ability that could make them the best cornerback duo in nfl history whatever i guess ct can see the future

by Bobby Schonger on Mar 17, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

God bless the defensive back situation in Miami..

… it’s very good. Something that doesn’t need a great deal of attention in the draft or FA.

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by Alpha6 on Mar 15, 2011 1:46 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

did yall see that stat where the league average last season by an nfl defense was somethin like 6.3 dropped ints and the Dolphins had 19 dropped ints?

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by Davone_Is_BessT on Mar 15, 2011 2:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Dropped ints

Yeah and at least 2 or 3 of them would have been pick 6’s that would have won the game for us. We might have made a wild card berth.

by miamimike71 on Mar 15, 2011 6:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

you know what kind of mojo that is when there's a turnover, Pitsburgh wood have sh!t a buick!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2011 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought we had 30+ beaking an NFL record

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 16, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It just simmed like it after #15!

wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will Allen in nickel

I think having him there will help put the secondary players in the right positions including the safeties with him and Dansby being the “coaches” on the field I think the unit will improve greatly, like you said above about on the field and in the locker room. Also do you think there’s any trade we could do with a new CBA of course for Sapp if Allen looks healthy at the end of camp instead of just cutting him because we did give up Camarillo for him and nickel corners are hard to come by?

by finsfanlivinginAustralia on Mar 15, 2011 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

All Im gonna say is

Vonate Davis is legit and I BELIEVE that he will certify himself as an elite player in the NFL within the next year or 2. I like Sean Smith as well and hopefully he will continue to get better but as of right now between the two Vontae is the better overall corner hands down.

Oh and Matty comments like these remind me how bias you are towards Smith

He beat out Vontae in 2009 for the starting job and has never looked back.

If anyone didnt look back after getting the starting job its Vontae. In case you forgot Smith lost his job to Jason Allen of all people. But anyway at the end of the day we got 2 raw ass corners and I cant complain

"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
Dez Bryant...enough said

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by Deuce Black on Mar 15, 2011 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW

by fin4three5yrs on Mar 15, 2011 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

look above

sean lost his job due to swag overload, too cocky and the coaches needed to send a message. if sean smith could of held on to some interceptions you would be saying hes the best corner

by Bobby Schonger on Mar 17, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

He must have had at least 10 dropped INTs this year.

-Pulse of the Maggots P.o.t.M. The "pm striker king"- WZB
"Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley
"Don't pray to have easier lives. Pray to be stronger men." - JFK

by PotM on Mar 17, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

*IF IF IF IF IF*

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 17, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Davis is elite and effective against the run and pass and also had he had the chance

at intercepting Smith’s drops, he would add to his case. Davis is elite because qb’s choose not to throw to his side. BTW, every corner will get beat at some time or another, just ask the ones you call elite. It takes top notch play at all 3 lines of defense to make a CB play to perfection.

Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW

by fin4three5yrs on Mar 15, 2011 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I think I agree on all counts.

I like our starters, and I like our depth (Carroll shows a lot of promise), but we do need to be looking around for another youngster. Between Allen and Sapp, our bench is pretty long in the tooth.

The biggest thing I’d like to see Vontae do to improve his game is focus more on making the sure tackle than on making the big tackle. He tries to lower the boom on guys too often, and either whiffs or bounces off.

by urbino on Mar 16, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions  

You forget we also have Ness for depth,bringing our total up to 6 corners

4 of which are in their low 20’s. TBH,I really wish the Harris experiment worked out,I think he would have benefitted our young guys immensely just on his experience alone.

by dolphinfan4lyfe on Mar 16, 2011 12:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I didn't forget Ness.

I didn’t mention him, but hadn’t forgotten about him. Having 2 corners we’re really counting on at the age Sapp and Allen are now just makes me nervous.

by urbino on Mar 17, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

They are fine...

 Why are there so many comments saying Davis is not that good??? What the hell people…..With Allen coming back, Smith and Davis starting we will be fine. Remember when you say how bad Davis got beat that he is 23 years old …..he has improved each year…so get off him

by Kevin13 on Mar 16, 2011 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah,

I don’t understand how him coming back is a good thing. Fans were calling for him to be benched before his season ending injury. How quickly we forget.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 16, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was our starting corner opposite V.Davis at that point,and if i remember correctly he was no. 1 on the depth chart...

People were asking him to sit to get Smith on the field. As a Nickel corner,he’d suffice,but like I said,I REALLY wish the Harris exeriment worked… I really think he could have taught these youngsters A LOT more than Will will be able to…

by dolphinfan4lyfe on Mar 16, 2011 11:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Yeah,

I liked Harris.

'Phins phor Liphe!

Draft The Newtron Bomb!

by joel311 on Mar 17, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

... what about hairy?!

"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice

by Alpha6 on Mar 17, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

I one hundred percent agree.

that summed up in one sentence is exactly what Im trying to tell people.

2008 AFC EAST Champions.

by civwarbuff on Mar 17, 2011 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

not that davis is bad

hes great but sean is better than people say

by Bobby Schonger on Mar 17, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

We are set at CB.

2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.

""It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress"

by Patssuck456 on Mar 16, 2011 5:17 PM EDT reply actions  

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