Miami Dolphins at Buffalo Bills: Dolphins kick off post-Sparano era in style, complete season sweep of Bills
by kmb8488 on Dec 19, 2011 5:00 AM EST
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All hail the short-term Todd Bowles era in Miami!
As Dolphins fans, we have three things to be thankful for on this last Sunday before the Christmas holiday: a rare, late-season Dolphins victory in upstate New York; the New York Jets being beaten to an unrecognizable pulp (by the Jekyll and Hyde Philadelphia Eagles, no less); and the Kansas City Chiefs ending Green Bay's bid for an undefeated season. That's as sweet a football Sunday as you'll find in Miami, and it began with a 30-23 victory for the Dolphins in semi-snowy Buffalo--Miami's first sweep of the Bills since 2008.
No Jake Long? No problem
Assumptions that the Dolphins' run game would suffer in the wake of Jake Long's absence yesterday (his first time appearing on the inactive list) might've been a bit overblown, as evidenced by Reggie Bush's 203-yard rushing performance on the afternoon, which included a berserk 76-yard touchdown that ended with Bush and Brandon Marshall sliding soccer-style into the end zone (Pele would almost certainly approve of such a celebration). The Dolphins averaged 6.7 yards per rush against Buffalo for a total of 254 yards on 38 carries, but the real story here is that Reggie Bush is having his best season ever as a pro (973 yards, six TDs in 14 games this season). He's a legitimate threat between the tackles at this point, and he looks as fast as ever (he also hit the hole like a ton of bricks on that long touchdown run). The quarterback the Dolphins draft next April is going to love playing with Reggie Bush--the fastest, flashiest Swiss Army Knife evah!
And then there's the Miami passing game, which notched two scores but was far less impressive yesterday afternoon, resulting in a paltry 217 yards. Matt Moore is absolutely an above-average starter at quarterback right now, but I don't know if there's anything out there right now to suggest he's more than a first-class stopgap. Still, he can ball, and though he doesn't have any "elite" skills, he manages the game well and flashes the ability to occasionally stretch the field vertically. Yesterday obviously wasn't Moore's best outing as a Dolphin, but an average passing performance was the least of Miami's worries anyway ...
Turnovers and red-zone inability still a problem post-Sparano
The last few recaps have praised Matt Moore for his savvy and veteran leadership, but going three-for-13 on third down is just wrong, especially when you're against a Bills defense that Mark Sanchez turned into Swiss cheese a few weeks ago. Not surprisingly, the Dolphins remain allergic to the red zone, as well, failing to convert on four separate opportunities inside the 20-yard line. Let's just chalk this up to something we can fix after the next coaching regime hits town.
Oh, and three fumbles (Moore, Bush and Marshall were all culprits) against any team other than Buffalo would likely result in a loss. Yecch.
Dolphins' defense creates some turnovers, as well
Vontae Davis has turned it up quite a bit over the last few weeks, and walked away from yesterday's contest with two picks, partially blemishing Buffalo quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick's 316 yards passing and two touchdown throws.
No one is about to deny that Davis is a physical, athletic corner with gobs of upside. But if he can start to get his instincts and overall awareness together, then we're talking about a very dangerous defensive back. I also love Davis' rabid willingness to play the run.
Quick hits
-Brandon Marshall's 28-yards-per-catch average yesterday shouldn't mask the fact that he finished the game with only three grabs. I still believe Marshall is one of the league's most expensive decoys at this point; he's had issues with drops, but Marshall's ridiculous yard-after-catch ability is only useful when he has the ball in his hands.
-Only two sacks were surrendered by an offensive line anchored by John Jerry at left tackle. Props to big No.74, but how bad is Buffalo's pass rush?
-Sad to see Jake Long sit out a game for the first time in his career, but I'd rather he get healthy and fully rehabilitate his back and knee. We're going to need him for, oh, the next decade or so, and there's no point in running him into the ground just four seasons into his career.
-Getting back to Bush and Marshall celebrating after Reggie's long touchdown run, it was fun to see those two act like they're genuinely having fun at this point in the season. I hope the Dolphins keep them together for the long haul.
-My hatred for the Buffalo Bills borders on insane, but their defense will be a force to reckon with once they find DEs who can muster a consistent pass rush. And Marcell Dareus is just a ridiculous physical specimen. Props to the Bills for drafting him third overall last April.
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Loved the slide into home plate !
And yes,….it was a very good day to be a Dolphins fan !!!
Marching to the beat of a different drummer since 1965...
by Ohiofinfan4life on Dec 19, 2011 6:42 AM EST reply actions
Is it cold in Ohio yet?
Holy Toledo, you’re gettin rain/snow today… lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
He's in Florida.
J-E-S-T-S SUCK, SUCK, SUCK.
I always take life with a grain of salt, plus a slice of lime, and a shot of tequila.
Crap. He's enjoying 80 degree weather...
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Yep and it sure is nice!
J-E-S-T-S SUCK, SUCK, SUCK.
I always take life with a grain of salt, plus a slice of lime, and a shot of tequila.
I wouldn't live anywhere else
Where else can you wear shorts all year.
Aren’t most people on this site from FL?
I think most of us are "from" Florida even of many of us now live elsewhere.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
good game
But I would rather us have lost this game, and then destroy the jests, ending their playoff hopes. We would have gone 5-11 and still had a chance at a top qb. Now, if we win that game, we would be 6-10 and landry jones would likely be the only option available. At this point, I’m actually hoping for a loss against the jets. I would rather have a decade of championships and success under RGIII or barkley than a single win(shich we will all eventually forget) and another chad henne.
Admiral of the RGIII "Robert Griffin"
Reggie Bush for 2012 pro bowl
New Orleans OC Carmichael for HC.
Grand Cardinal of the first holy church of brandstater (the phinsider), and founder of the second holy church of brandstater (turf show times).
by AnishB15 on Dec 19, 2011 6:56 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. But I think the Dolphins will likely trade up for the QB they want
That’s what I keep telling myself, at least.
Pilot of the "Stiffin' for Griffin III in 2012" Fleet
I support Occupy Joe Robbie
All through the game I kept asking myself,
Jones or Tannehill? Le sigh.
Still, lot of other bad teams won yesterday too, even Indy(!). So I officially don’t know WTF is going to shake out of the draft.
They couldn't stop Reggie Bush...
The very reason I asked for a Bush jersey for Christmas this year! Woot!
Jimbo
by Dolphinator on Dec 19, 2011 7:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Watch. You'll get a shirt with hair all over it and parted down the middle... LOL!
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
wow - lol
Official member of "The Luck Fleet"
Nobody hurt a tackler like Zonk did.
by rintintinsoldier on Dec 19, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
It would be the first time my wife bought me a bush for Christmas
However, I will take any Bush I can get! LOL!
Jimbo
by Dolphinator on Dec 19, 2011 12:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
lmao....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Bias?
I can’t get over your apparent anti-Matt Moore statements and opinions in everything that you write. Moore was victimized by Marshall’s 2 dropped TD passes, that were right on the money, perfect placement. You seem to live in a fantasy world where Moore is a temporary fix, until that magical QB from this years draft comes along. Moore’s “fumble” was not really a fumble, but if if it’s ruled as a fumble, it is. You post it as another example of his lack of NFL caliber play. Open your eyes please. Moore is the future, maybe not for the Dolphins, but he has the talent to be a starting QB for any team in the league.
please explain to me how matt moore is going to win us a championship?
Tell me, how is he a super bowl caliber qb. Unless you are happy to suffer through season after season of 7-9 or 8-8, he isn’t the answer. Robert griffin III and barkley both have the ability to be elite. Look at the last five super bowl winners: rodgers, brees, roethlisberger and the manning bros. What they all have in common? They are all consistantly top 10 qbs. Matt moore is NOT. Matt moore is a jay cutler or kyle orton at best. Sure, he has his good days, but he is not that elite qb we need to win it all. And that’s what I want. Its been 40 years since the lombardi trophy was paraded through the streets of miami, that’s 40 years too long. I don’t know about you, but I’m tired of mediocrity, I want excellance. I want miami to become the type of dynasty in NE, GB and Pittsburgh. I want the residents of miami to be phin fans as well as heat fans, not chose only the heat and then take up other teams for football. I want a team we fans can be proud of. I want the dolphins to illicit the same fear the packers, saints and pats do. The only way we can do so is by getting a true franchise qb. Someone who can consistantly shred apart the best defenses in the league, someone who is consistantly in the top 10 or 5. Moore isn’t, and never will be that qb. This draft class is one of the deepest in history, and we need to take advantage of that. This team needs an aaron rodgers, not a matt cassel. We need SB rings, not wildcard spots and one-and-done in the playoffs. We need pride, not excuses. We need excellance, not mediocrity. We need lombardis, not losses. Until we get a franchise qb that puts fear in the hearts of opposing defenses, we won’t have that. Matt moore isn’t putting fear in the hearts of anybody.
Admiral of the RGIII "Robert Griffin"
Reggie Bush for 2012 pro bowl
New Orleans OC Carmichael for HC.
Grand Cardinal of the first holy church of brandstater (the phinsider), and founder of the second holy church of brandstater (turf show times).
by AnishB15 on Dec 19, 2011 8:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
NE and GB
Both drafted QBs well outside of the top ten. Both QBs had time to develop. Brady had less for sure, but was placed in an ideal situation. Moore has actually been damn good when he’s started. I’m all for giving him more opportunity. Is he the answer? None of us know, but we’re all better off the better he does….
......and the rats devour each other as the ship goes down......
being picked in the top ten has nothing to do with eliteness
Where they are picked doesn’t matter. If a qb is elite he is elite. Its just that a first round qb has a higher chance of being elite. Tom brady is a huge exception. And how are we better off with moore? He is kyle orton at best. He will win some games, but will never take us to a super bowl. And moore hasn’t been putting up elite numbers. Look at brees’ stats, that’s elite. Moore isn’t even close. I’m tired of being happy with “good enough.” We don’t need good enough, we need elite. What’s wrong with me wanting this team to be great. Matt moore is not great, he is average.
Admiral of the RGIII "Robert Griffin"
Reggie Bush for 2012 pro bowl
New Orleans OC Carmichael for HC.
Grand Cardinal of the first holy church of brandstater (the phinsider), and founder of the second holy church of brandstater (turf show times).
by AnishB15 on Dec 19, 2011 8:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
There is nothing wrong with you wanting the Team to be great.
You can’t also discard that Moore is playing some better football than we all expected when they acquired him. I like Moore alot and he takes the sting out of us moving up and away from a good draft position. Yes, we all want a great/elite QB for the team. How can you say Moore will never take us to a Superbowl? No one knows what Moore can or will do with a complete season on his back.
Moore doesn't call the plays.
And when the deep passes are called, he has the best deep ball accuracy of any QB since Marino. To say he is never going to take us to a Super Bowl is ludicrous given the way he’s played in such a short period of starting.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Jay Cutler is a top tier QB.
Not many QBs can play with no O-Line and no #1 stud wide-out and still put up 20+ points consistently. That’s just another example of you underestimating QBs.
Matt Moore is going to make us 8-8? Please explain how this is going to happen, especially since he is 5-2 in the last 7 and one of the losses came from him losing Jake Long and getting manhandled into injury.
Matt Moore is a mother fucking stud.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
by joel311 on Dec 19, 2011 9:26 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agree joel311.
I think some people just have it stuck in their head to put down anyone not named Marino/Brees/Rodgers/ Brady as QB. I really am growing some fan love for Moore. He might not put up 400 yards a game, but stuck with what we got and the scheme…….. he gets it done!
Im leaning toward your side on this debate. This offseason I am going to look at every snap
how it deserves to be and make more accurate assessments then, but as of now I see no reason that Matt Moore cant be a great Quarterback in this league. He has steped into as difficult a postion as you possibly could in this league. On a club in absolute turmoil, with a fanbase furiously seeking change. The ultimate no-win scenario yet he has exemplified incredible and natural leadership. He is very poised under pressure and he can make every throw.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
Awesome,
I can’t wait for your post.
I can’t wait for the next two games either; I think Moore will get a nice contract extension after the year if he wins out.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I just started the first one last night (Jets Monday Night)
I decided after debating it with myself for awile if I should start with his relief in San Diego but I decided to begin with the Jets game after the bye.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
Yeah,
I left his first start out of the average QB rating because he was still trying to get in sync with the first team offense. That game is going to look pretty bad, but it’s fair to use it.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
It doesnt look good but seeing the process of his acclimation
with the team is important.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
As for Jay Cutler there is no doubt that Cutler is the single most unfairly treated player in The NFL today by the media.
When I watch Cutler play he never ceases to amaze me. He is playing on a team riddled with problems on offense and the most unforgiving scheme in football. Yet he makes play after play after play despite taking shots over and over again. His heart and determination get completely overlooked by the media.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
I agree.
Jay Cutler would be considered elite on any team that had real weapons at TE or WR plus the slightest hint of pass protection. Let him and Rodgers switch places, and Cutler will be the one putting up huge numbers.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I disagree
While Cutler’s arm is stronger, Rodger’s has the touch and foresight to put the pass where it needs to be prior to the rcvr’s break. Also Rodgers does not force as many passes as Cutler is known to do. IMO, Cutler reminds me of a poor man Favre as he depends on arm strength too much, which causes too many game altering interceptions.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Cutler has to force passes,
because he doesn’t have the receivers that can get the separation necessary. When Johnny Knox is your #1, you are in trouble.
Rodgers, however, has plenty of big receivers/TEs. He does not have to worry about his WRs being out-gunned for the ball, nor does he have to worry about having a pass-rush in his face every snap. What happened to Rodgers when that happened to him? Oh yeah, he just lost, even with the great receiving corps he had. What does Cutler do in that situation? Still finds ways to win more often than not. Even though he has been the most sacked QB in the NFL in the last 3 years.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Cutler throws too many boneheaded INTs and the stats will prove it.
Rodgers has just joined Brady, Manning, and Brees as elite qb with all 3 threatening Marino’s single season yardage record.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Cutler carries that team on his back regularly.
You think Rodgers isn’t going to throw more picks with no #1 and no real TE threats? COME ON, MAN!
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
No qb has to force passes, just ask Tebow.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Cutler has always forced passes, even in Denver with Marshall.
He’s a gunslinger, but that isn’t necessarily bad. Cutler is a very good QB and is a top 10 QB IMO, but still, I don’t think he’s as good as Rodgers. Saying Cutler is no Aaron Rodgers is like saying Jim Kelly was no Dan Marino… They’re both really good and both have the ability to win, but Cutler just isn’t on the level of Rodgers.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I think Cutler's a throwback to the QBs who played in the '70s and '80s
He’s more instinctive than cerebral, and challenges defenses to stop what he’s doing, as opposed to playing it safe and trying to take what defenses give him. He makes some bad decisions, but he has a million dollar arm and the balls to use it.
I live in Chicago, and Jay Cutler’s a big-time polarizing figure here. But I wanted the Dolphins to draft him in 2006, and I think he’s a lot better than people give him credit for. If I am not mistaken, he’s already had something like five offensive coordinators during his career. That would F up a lot of NFL quarterbacks.
Pilot of the "Stiffin' for Griffin III in 2012" Fleet
I support Occupy Joe Robbie
Agreed
That is why Cutler is so frustrating to so many Chicago fans. He’ll get you excited when he challenges the defense with his arm and wins, but will baffle them when he loses those. Favre was very similar in a way that they’re boom-or-bust QBs. They rely on their arm too much to reign themselves in and actually pull back a pass they thought they could make. Still, I liked Cutler a lot and am still big on him, but I just don’t see him as a close comparison to Rodgers.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Cutler for the most part is a product of the way he was treated at Vanderbilt
You should have seen it, for the most part, when he led them to their first bowl appearance, it was like he was a God.
In truth, it kind of ruined him, especially when he got traded. Quite simply, it was his ego that forced the trade. McDaniels couldnt stand anyone in the locker room that thought they were better than him.
However, i think what grounded him somewhat is when they found out he had diabetes. It brought him back down to earth in a hurry.
The thing is, and the big part about him relyong on his arm is that everywhere hes went, he has had to.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 1:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Did you see how fat he got from that? Wow...
“abidit abidit abidit, that’s all folks!”
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
He's also 5-6 in the last 11 games, and 1-1 in the last two.
You probably wanted Kyle Orton too, didn’t you?
Damn straight I wanted Orton.
Seems like he is doing just fine in KC.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
No doubt! He brought the kings of football right down! Loved it....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Moore
The problem with Moore is that he’s pretty much at his ceiling. He’s been in the NFL for 4 years. Yes, he has the talent to be a starting QB in the NFL. Rex Grossman also has the talent to be a starting QB in the NFL. Moore is not an elite QB and while he does look good, he does not look elite. If there are QBs in the draft that look like they could be elite, you take them. You then hold on to Moore and keep him next year to see what he can do. If he works, that’s awesome and we have trade bait in a few years with Barkley or RG3. If he doesn’t work out, well at least we’re not going through more years of mediocrity with QB questions, possibly fire another coach, and then look for another QB that could take 2-3 years to develop.
The NFL moves fast and if we pass on a QB and Moore doesn’t work out, we’re looking at drafting a QB as we lose players like Brandon Marshall and Reggie Bush by the time a 2013 or 2014 rookie QB hits his stride. I’d rather bring in the rookie next year and let him hit his peak while Marshall and Bush are still young.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Disagree
Rex Grossman also has the talent to be a starting QB in the NFL
Only because Mike Shanahan is clinically insane. Grossman is a backup. He makes awful decisions. He has not shown consistenrt growth.
The problem with Moore is that he’s pretty much at his ceiling. He’s been in the NFL for 4 years
Unfortunately, this statement is completely wrong considering that he is showing consistent growth on a game-by-game basis.
I’m not convinced that Matt Moore is the future at quarterback for the Dolphins. But i’m also not convinced that he is NOT the future.
by DolfanVince86 on Dec 19, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
Grossman is a starter and does have talent. I'll forego that and say that Mark Sanchez also has the talent to be a starting QB...
But “starting QB” is not what I want. I want a top QB or an elite QB. Moore has improved since his first games, but he hasn’t improved each game and he still doesn’t look like an elite QB. I disagree with the notion that Moore’s ceiling is much higher. He’s far from elite and I don’t think his ceiling is much higher than where he is now. Moore is doing good within the system now, but I fear that if Miami had to pass to win and get into a shootout, I don’t think Moore is capable of doing so. Instead, I think he’s a good QB when the system is working. That is what we refer to as a game manager. Sorry, but I want more.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I agree with you to a point.
I want a top QB or an elite QB. Moore has improved since his first games, but he hasn’t improved each game and he still doesn’t look like an elite QB
I also want an elite QB. But we can’t just assume that drafting a QB high in the first round gives us the answer. It is my strong opinion that Matt Barkley would not be an upgrade over Matt Moore. Let’s look at the drawbacks to Barkley’s game:
1.) He doesn’t have a rifle for an arm. Just like Matt Moore.
2.) He’s not overly mobile. Just like Matt Moore. Except Moore has shown a good pocket presence and is steadiliy improving.
3.) He’s already had surgery on his throwing wrist and has missed time due to injuries. Matt Moore has taken a hell of a beating in his career and he’s still on his feet. I don’t believe he’s had any surgeries to date?
Now, on the other hand, RGIII sounds like a great plan to me. He’s going to take some time to develop (hopefully not too long), and in that time Matt Moore can continue to prove why he belongs in a starting position. Also, there’s nothing guaranteeing that Griffin will develop into a pro-style quarterback, OR be able to stay on his feet while taking an NFL beating.
There’s also the possibility that Griffin can make a position switch if he utterly fails at QB. He could also be injected into any game plan if Moore stays the starter.
All in all, the best case scenario is for Moore to play lights out and provide us with two comeback victories against NE and NYJ. That would answer some of your questions (which i’m guessing our front office has too). Wouldn’t it be great to be able to go after Justin Blackmon (or even Quinton Coples if we switch to a 4-3)? We could even go after Morris Claiborne and just be ridiculous in the secondary.
by DolfanVince86 on Dec 19, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Not to mention we could just stick with the program
And go after a tackle. LOL. Maybe John Jerry’s continued good play could solve that problem for us…
by DolfanVince86 on Dec 19, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions
Ok.
Just did a little Moore research. It looks like he’s had a pretty consistent history of injuries.
I couldn’t find anything out about surgeries though. It looks like (from what i’m reading) he’s never had trouble returning from an injury.
Obviously, this doesn’t mean he’s a surefire man of steel but still he’s shown a pretty good toughness, right?? Right??? Lol…
by DolfanVince86 on Dec 19, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Oh
And pun intended on the “little Moore research” bit… Ha!
by DolfanVince86 on Dec 19, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Moore and Rookie QBs...
1) Barkley has a good enough arm to make all the throws in the NFL, including the deep pass. QBs have shown you don’t need a John Elway arm to win.
2) Barkley is a pretty mobile QB and he is actually very good passing while he’s on the move too.
3) He did have surgery on his wrist, but it was minor. He didn’t tear anything. Matt Moore has finished 2 of 4 NFL seasons on the Injured Reserve. He also had surgery suffered a torn labrum in his shoulder in 2010 and underwent surgery. Know who else had a torn labrum? Chad Pennington. That surgery was far more severe than Barkley’s surgery.
You are right that you can’t assume that drafting a QB is going to be the answer, but that shouldn’t stop you from making the pick. That theory applies to all players, not just QBs. David Woodley once did good enough for Miami in 1982 and even went 7-2. I’m glad they didn’t settle for “good enough” though and drafted Dan Marino the following draft.
As for RG3, he’s simply not changing positions. Just had to throw that out there. People are catching on that athletic QBs don’t necessarily translate well into successful WRs. Just ask Eric Crouch, Matt Jones, Brad Smith, etc. You don’t draft a QB in the first round and convert him to WR unless you are the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Moore could play lights out in the final 2 games, but I still would want Barkley or RG3. My ideal scenario would be to draft one of them, Moore works out and plays lights out next year, and then Miami makes a trade of one of their QBs and turns it into a first round pick. That is my best case scenario.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
You're kinda missing the point of my post (and maybe I wasn't clear)
My point was that the drawbacks to Barkley are very similar to the drawbacks to Moore.
With that said, why spend a high draft pick when we basically have a similar guy already? At this point, Matt Moore has given us no reason to think that Barkley would be an upgrade. Yes, maybe Barkley has a higher ceiling, but is anyone sure enough of that to gamble a top ten (or even top five) pick?
You are right that you can’t assume that drafting a QB is going to be the answer, but that shouldn’t stop you from making the pick.
Completely agreed! I would sell the farm for Luck. I would honestly rather draft Landry Jones then Matt Barkley because IMO he possesses more upside.
As for RG3, he’s simply not changing positions.
Completely agreed! It would be folly to draft him where he is going to be drafted and expect him to make a position switch. I was simply raising the point that unlike Barkley, RGIII possesses the athleticism to make a position switch IF he falls flat on his face playing quarterback. I’m talking a few failed seasons.
As far as your ideal scenario, I am in complete agreement. As far as worst case scenarios go, i’d like to see us grab RGIII because I think he brings a lot more to the table than almost any other quarterback in the draft (almost being Andrew Luck).
Maybe i’m mistaken, and maybe i’m not giving Matt Barkley enough credit, but I just don’t see him as being much of an upgrade to Matt Moore.
by DolfanVince86 on Dec 19, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
Physical skill doesn't mean they are the same players
Ryan Mallett is physically comparable to Dan Marino, but that doesn’t mean the dude is Dan Marino. If we went based on their physical ability, Peyton Manning would be one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL. You could say Barkley has a similar physical skill set to someone like Matt Moore, yes. You could also say his physical skill set is superior to Drew Brees if you really wanted to.
Really, based on physical abilities, Barkley isn’t far from Luck. So why are you so high on Luck, but not on Barkley? The kid is a well equipped QB and he has done very well with accuracy and decision making. He is a solid QB and unlike Moore, I think he has more room to grow.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
grossman took the bears to a super bowl (somehow?) but is not elite, average at best
he does have some good games, moore is still unproven and deserves a chance to try for the job. From what i’ve seen so far , he has some skills, and just needs some polish. do i want RGIII in miami, you bet your ass, but he’s not ready to be thrust into the game and perhaps ruin his career with an injury or just plain ridicule of a not so nfl ready rookie.let him mentor under moore( who still needs a little mentoring too) and then let him be the “guy” after some seasoning. patience my friends is a virtue, if we get him we want him to learn the pro game, and be the franchise for years to come.
founding member of the dolphins really old bastards fan club GO PHINS... TO THE GRAVE BABY!
by daytonadolfan on Dec 19, 2011 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
He hit his ceiling?
Sure, maybe he has. He is playing spectacular football right now. His passes are right on the money, with any touch necessary, and they are happening deep. Matt Moore is proving himself to be in the upper echelon talk. What is he now, 12-2 in TDs to INTs in 7 games? 6:1 ratio? Remind me when we’ve ever had that kind of efficiency?
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
by joel311 on Dec 19, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Moore
He’s 11-2 in TDs-INTs in the past 7 games, but during that time he’s only gone over 250 yards passing a single time, failed to reach even 200 yards passing 3 times, and once failed to reach even 100 yards. He’s also only had 3 games in the past 7 in which he’s passed for over 60% completion.
I do think this is his ceiling. He’s doing good, but I don’t think he’s the type of QB to make that 4th quarter comeback or take over a game. I think he’s a very good game manager. Maybe I’m wrong and I actually hope that I am, but I’d like Barkley or RG3 on the roster in case I’m right. I don’t want to be wrong and stuck with someone like JP Losman as our only other option.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
He's only reached over 250 once?
Why is that? Could it be because we are usually playing with a lead in the 4th quarter, and our coaching philosophy (as retarded as it is) is to play conservative with a 2nd Half/4th Quarter lead? NAAAAAAAAAAAH, that couldn’t have anything to do with it.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
And that is fine.
Like I’m saying, he has done pretty darn good within his role. I am saying that when we do need a QB to take over a game, which we will, can he do that? I’m not sure. I haven’t seen much to show that he can. Again, until he shows he is a top-tier QB, which I don’t think he has yet, I still think we use our advantage in draft order to take a QB that looks like he can be.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
This is true, BUT not because he hasnt had the opportunities to do so
I can count several throws that were right on the money in a few games that were simply dropped by recievers. The fact remains that a couple of those games he could have went over 200 yards.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 5:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
And comparing him to GROSSMAN!?
That shows a blatant lack of respect for Moore. Lack of any kind of attention to detail over this 7 game stretch. Grossman throws more picks than TDs. Grossman makes terrible decisions. Matt Moore throws far more TDs than picks. Makes good decisions. Has gotten our offense, OUR OFFENSE, to put up over 30 points a game on a pretty regular basis. This entire team is re-invigorated with Matt Moore at the helm, and I see no reason to draft a replacement. Pick up a backup developmental QB in the later rounds, and save the 1st Round for a true position of need.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I compared him to Grossman as saying there are plenty of QBs with talent to be a starting QB...
I didn’t say Grossman is better. I just don’t want another middle-of-the-pack QB. I want elite. We have scored 30+ points in 4 of the last 7 games, but then again, that did come against Buffalo (twice), KC, and Oakland. Those aren’t very good defenses. Can he drop 30 on someone like the Jets? He’d have to make a heck of an improvement over his last performance against NYJ to do so.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
If you watched GB...
Green Bay held Green Bay to 14 points. KC didn’t cause a dozen or so self-inflicted drops. Plus they had the ball for over 36 minutes and kept Rodgers off the field. Even with the Green Bay game under their belt, they’re still the 22nd ranked defense in the NFL…
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
They were top 16 when we played them.
And with the green bay game under their belt, they will go up. Stats haven’t updated on NFL.com for this week. That happens Tuesday or Wednesday.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Same can be said for Moore.
Moore didn’t cause BM to drop his two self-inflicted drops in the Endzone. That’s two more TD’s that could’ve been added to Moores stats. we would be looking at Moore with a 4 TD day instead.
I don't blame Moore for Marshall's drops.
I never did.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
not saying that you did,
but many blamed Henne for marshalls drops. Or at the very least didnt credit Henne for making good passes that he dropped.
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Patriots!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 21, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Agree to an extent
But Moore hasn’t necessarily hit his ceiling WITH THIS TEAM … People often overlook the fact that the very best “elite” QBs in the league also have had the advantage of stable personnel and seasons to build their playing relationships – Rogers, Brees, Manning, Rivers … ( Brady is almost a notable exception in that he’s done it with all kinds of players). Give Moore time and a stable weapons set and then you’ll get to see what they can do. Brady & Welker, Rivers and Gates, Rogers and Driver, Manning and Wayne etc are as unstoppable as they are due to 2-3 years of chemistry development. Weeks back Matt Moore was missing open reads all over the field, weeks on he’s making fewer mistakes but starting to put up plays like that 65 yarder to Marshall.
Holy crap, I've given Matt Moore huge props with these recaps
lol. Not sure what posts you’ve been reading.
Pilot of the "Stiffin' for Griffin III in 2012" Fleet
I support Occupy Joe Robbie
I’ve read most of your posts. You always speak of Moore as a temp. solution until “THE DRAFT”. Where a surefire QB awaits us, to take over the team and lead us to a Super Bowl. Might I suggest to all the “Draft” experts, you obviously can pick out all the players who will succeed mightily in the NFL, so -——- Print up a resume and send it around the league, a person with that skill level is worth millions to a pro team. Don’t waste your time on these blogs. You can thank me for this advice, later, when you hit the big time.
by Truth Warrior on Dec 19, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
And you know better then anyone else here? I doubt it and assume your best attribute is being rude for no reason other then to show your ass!.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, my track record with draft stuff is pretty good
Thank you for the letter of recommendation, though. And how many times do you need to see the Dolphins bring in journeyman quarterbacks before you can admit that maybe drafting a signal caller would be a better route for the Dolphins at this point?
Matt Moore’s a quality quarterback, but let’s watch him beat some quality teams before we resign ourselves to the fact that he’s the long-term solution. In the meantime, I’ll be shopping around my resume.
Oh, and thanks for reading :-)
Pilot of the "Stiffin' for Griffin III in 2012" Fleet
I support Occupy Joe Robbie
Your fans are so rabid!
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps literally!
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
So slim what exazackly did you do to tick this one off?
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate! Have you touched & preened your beaver-pelt yet!
by wild zion beaver on Dec 19, 2011 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
I did nothing.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 20, 2011 6:06 AM EST up reply actions
It's a blog man, nobody is an expert.
If you want expert advice, you might as well not come here or go to ESPN or Miami’s front office.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
huh?
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Great game, glad we won, screw the friggin' draft......
By all indications, the FO doesn’t have plans to “blow up” the roster, which makes me relax a little during the coaching change. Moore is playing great, and if 19 can catch perfectly thrown passes we’d be even better.
Good job 74, do we have our future RT? No Carter next week, but BB always finds a way….
Those upset that we won, remember that two of the best QBs in the league right now weren’t taken at the top of the draft. Brady and Rodgers. Also remember, Manning could be finding a new home, and Brees hasn’t re-signed yet. And oh yeah, this Moore guy is doing pretty good. Although I like some of these prospects, it’s not all lost if we don’t draft in the top ten……
......and the rats devour each other as the ship goes down......
One College QB is not going to fix the Dolphins
But I guess a large part of the posters on this board believe in this simplistic cure.I hope they win their last two games proving to themselves that with the players they have they can beat the Pats and the Jets.Then the offseason task for the front office will not be so daunting.The writers who were proponents of suck for luck were writing stories that their editors thought would sell newspapers(advertising etc).If the Dolphins want an immediate windfall out of the QB position then they should aquire Peyton Manning if he’s healthy enough to start every game as one of the elite Qb’s in the league.Otherwise they have Moore and if surrounded with good players can win 10 games next year.The Dolphins with the nucleus they have provided they win at least one of these last two can upgrade the team with a handful of players enough to help Moore,Bush,Bess,Hartline,Long Etc and the goog defensive players that they already have and win 10 next year.They will need to have a winning record in their division to be able to make the playoffs with those 10 wins.Lets see how they do against the Pats this Sunday.
We won, YAY
Congrats Reggie on your career season. Way to go Vontae.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 9:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Matt Moore
You losers make me sick,,,Matt Moore has done a great job and all you focus on is a make believe QB in next years draft….I’m an original Dolfan from 1966 born and raised in Miami and will always be a Dolphins fan…I stuck with the team the first fur years when we only won 15 games….then all the fair weather fans jumped aboard when we got Don Shula and had our perfect season….thr Dolphins are my one and only sports team that I live and die for…I’m also a Hurricanes fan as they were the only football team in Miami till the Dolphins came along….the Canes were mediocre during the 50’s thru the 70’s and once again people jumped on the bandwagon in the 80’s when we began our string of 5 national championships…only 26,000 people showed up to watch Joe Auer run the opening kick off back for a TD in the first Dolphin game . I am proud to be an original Dolfan even though I moved out of Miami in q1972 due to the drug and crime problem and now reside in rural GA…my family settled in Miami in the 1920’s my aunt Emma got Claude Pepper hi first government job …My uncle LLoyd opened the first photography store in Miami during the 20’s…I still call Miami my home though I haven’t lived there in 39 years…Give Matt Moore a chance…A QB named Bob Griese also took a lot of heat from the local fans during his first three losing seasons from 67-69….Georgw Wilson was a terrible coach even had his son Jr as the QB and punter at one time…Don Shula made the Dolphins what became a dynasty…Joe Thomas as GM also deserves the credit too in those foirst bfew Shula seasons…Joe Robbie was a good owner and stayed out of football operations leaving Thomas ans Shula a free hand in acquiring talent to build what would become one of the greatest sports teams in history….you nfair weather fans go back to new york new jersey or wherever you came from….thye Dolphins will rise again and Matt Moore might take us to the super bowl again….have faith
Hey ptLsteve.......... I am a Jersey Dolphins fan and have been for 23 years.
I might not have lived in Florida or been a fan as long, but I am damn passionate for my Dolphins. Anyways, I agree with you about Moore and believe he can be a damn good QB. Maybe your being a little too harsh on some of these posters.
You're flat out wrong.
Matt Barkley and RG3 aren’t imaginary. They do exist… As for Moore, he is not a rookie. He’s a 4-year veteran QB. What are we supposed to give him a chance for? To reach his ceiling? Sorry, but I think Moore has hit his peak. If we’re happy with this, at his peak, then yeah we can be happy with him for our future. Unfortunately for Moore, I see a few QBs in this draft that I believe have a higher ceiling. It’s business, nothing against Moore. If I see someone in this draft that has a higher ceiling than Jake Long, I’d replace him as well. We can draft a QB and Moore can still come back, giving us a Brees/Rivers situation if he does improve. I’d love to have Moore succeed and be an elite QB (I don’t think he will be elite), but I’d rather have a plan (Barkley and RG3) in place though in case he doesn’t. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Or we can draft a true position of need,
and actually be real contenders for a title next year. We need a stud OLB and some help on the O-Line.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
If we get Coples or Kalil, do you think we're title contenders next year? I don't.
I think we’re Wild Card contenders at the most. Again, I hope Moore works out and does become elite and could be the big QB when we need him that can defeat Tom Brady in a 4th quarter shootout, but you hope for the best and plan for the worst. Planning for the worst is drafting a QB for the future if it doesn’t work out.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I disagree with you.
Matt Moore makes us contenders. Next week is when a lot of people will finally realize what he brings to the table.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
He should have some good numbers.
After all, he plays the 32nd ranked defense.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Cool,
make excuses already. Even though you just claimed you want a QB to beat Tom Brady in a 4th Quarter shoot out. Make up your mind.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I would love to have a QB do that.
I fully expect Moore to have good numbers, but I didn’t say I expect him to beat Tom Brady in a shootout. I’d love to see him create a rally for Miami and to win the game when it’s on the line. That’s a lot different than saying he should “have some good numbers.”
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I wasn't implying that he would just "have good numbers",
I was responding to you saying you wanted to see him win a shootout with Brady in the 4th quarter. Well, I think it will come down to that because our defense, and NE’s lack thereof, will keep it close early in the game. So long as our coaching staff doesn’t decide to run it with a 2 point lead, we should finally get to see what Moore is made of in the final minutes of the game.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I'm all for a drafting RG3 or Matt Barkley.
I see your points in your opinions. I also think your a little harsh on Moore saying he has hit his ceiling….. really? He seems to get more and more comfortable in each game. He also uses different receivers better than any Dolphin QB I have seen in the last 10 Years. I wouldn’t mind seeing Moore come back and play next year and see what he can do with a whole offseason and year behind him. In my opinion he just might surprise us all.
I want to see Moore come back next year too and have him start.
But I want Barkley or RG3 to be waiting in the wings in case I’m right with Moore. If I’m wrong, at least we have a QB we can trade for high picks with Barkley or RG3. If I’m right, it’s a smooth transition to our next QB.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I completely disagree with this. I talked about this very situation with Screwfish of the Raiders. Heres why:
“The next question is Matt Moore as a longterm starter for this franchise. Thats a hard question and one that seems to be hovering over the Dolphins franchise right now. What i will say is this. What Matt Moore has done, stepping in to what is in my opinion the most difficult position to play in proffesional sports, in what is IMO the most competitive sports league in the world, on a team that has other issues and has excelled as quickly as he has is amazing. He has completely won over this team through his play and his dedication and nothing should be taken from him that way. Really Ryan Fitzpatrick may be the only other modern comparison. However this franchise is at a crossroads right now, we could very well see this offseason a complete overhaul of the managerial and coaching positions on this football team. If that were to happen its very likely that despite Moores play new management will take a franchise Quarterback in the first round of next years draft. Preferably (and many fans here may disagree with me on this) I would like to see Matt Moore get a full offseason with whatever coaching staff that is (especially if a new head coach is inhouse), get a full season next year and use our so valuable draft picks to solidify some other problems on this team. Granted however there are a full 5 games to play this season and alot can happen between now and then. Ultimately the most important thing on this team is finding our franchise Quarterback. I wish Chad Henne the best and I hope he finds success elsewhere but he wont return here. The question is Matt Moore and there is really no one answer.”
If management makes the call on a Franchise Quarterback I want them to make that decision definatively. Anything less IMO is damaging to the team. I dont want Matt Moore to have to look over his shoulder at anyone. If we make the decision that he is our Quarterback, I want him to be our Quarterback. Management should not be given a safegap. If hes our guy. Hes our guy.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
And that is exactly why I want to draft a QB...
“The question is Matt Moore and there is really no answer.” That right there is why I want one. I don’t want a relapse of what the Bills did and give Fitzpatrick the reigns and the contract before it’s too early. I want Moore to come back next year and prove it with a full season as well, but I want a backup plan in place too. I don’t want to be looking at the 2013 NFL Draft and think we should select QBs Tyler Wilson or Aaron Murray when there are much better QBs available this year.
If management makes the call on a franchise QB, I want them to be absolutely positive before they mortgage the future on that QB. I don’t want to be drafting a QB when we’ve gone through more years of mediocrity and we’re drafting a QB when holes on offense start to open back up.
Look at the Bills now with Fitzpatrick and his inconsistent play. Now people question if the contract extension was a smart move. Buffalo is locked in to Fitzpatrick. Imagine the assurances they’d have that along with Fitzpatrick at a reasonable deal with no huge contract, but Buffalo had someone like Jake Locker or Christian Ponder behind him. At least then you wouldn’t be praying that Fitzpatrick would play consistently so what Buffalo knew what to make of their future. I don’t want a cloudy future like Buffalo or Arizona with Fitzpatrick. I just want to know we have our QB for the future. I don’t know if Moore is that and based on your comment, neither do you.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
by Finhead83 on Dec 19, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Amen
Why is it that you have to be all or nothing. There is no reason not to have someone looking over their shoulder and seeing a young stud QB. Can you say Aron Rogers and Brett Farve.
You arguably had the best QB in the league and still had a yound stud QB right behind him. God I wish we had that problem.
Ohh yes. Im not going to pretend for a second that I have all of the answers
especially when discussing Matt Moore. However that is why I am analyzing every snap he has taken in Miami (as a starter excluding the Chargers relief effort) to formulate every opinion I possibly can on him. I am also trying to bring no pre-conceived notions on him (including my admiration and appreciation for what hes done for us). What I was saying is that I simply dont know if Matt Moore can be the future in Miami. I probably wont at the end of all this but its important to get as close as possible. As for the decision on Matt Moore vs a rookie Quarterback the risks are massive both ways and we both understand this.
The other point i made however we are fundamentally disagreeing on: “If management makes the call on a Franchise Quarterback I want them to make that decision definatively. Anything less IMO is damaging to the team. I dont want Matt Moore to have to look over his shoulder at anyone. If we make the decision that he is our Quarterback, I want him to be our Quarterback. Management should not be given a safegap. If hes our guy. Hes our guy.”
If this management (or any for that matter) isnt 100% behind him than he shouldnt be put on the field next year IMO. He deserves the consideration to be a franchise Quarterback in the NFL. If we make that judgement I want everything we do to be put into fixing every other problem on this team and I want him to know that this management either is 100% with him, or that we look elsewhere. If for whatever reason it fails than they all go down. That is what would happent to management with a first round pick. If the decision is made to go with Matt Moore he deserves that same treatment.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
why the kid gloves
I mean really… this sport is about competition… every position on the team has a guy behind him waiting for his opportunity or trying to show what he can offer. What you’re describing is what we did this year. We let Henne be the starter no matter what he did in pre-season or in games.
So instead of comming out of training camp with Moore as our QB we let Henne be the starter because of the 100% commitment that you’re talking about.
You think Brady would be happy if The Patriots drafted a 1st Round QB?
You think Peyton Manning really isn’t going to ask to be traded if The Colts take Luck? Even though Manning has stated before that he believes the #1 overall pick should play [b]from Day One[/b]?
You think Favre was happy that Rodgers was drafted? He played his best football when he got to The Vikings, who seemed interested in him for more than a year, unlike The Jets. Getting away from a QB controversy sure seemed to help his game.
Dividing the fanbase between the 1st Rounder and the current QB can only lead to hasty decisions by management.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Comparing Moore to Favre and Manning is ludicrous
Moore is a nobody QB with some success. You want the job prove you you’re better than this 21 year old little shit over there.
And yes they did draft Rogers even with a HOF QB with a super bowl win. You know what that worked out pretty well for them. I would take those results any day. How about you?
No QB will be happy with a 1st Round selection sitting behind them.
That’s the point.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
This is not the cast of Days of our lives
This is NFL football. Shit or get off the pot!!!!!
This is NFL football.
Stop bringing in a pinch-shitter while I’m on the pot!!!
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Whoa!!
Is that like pinch-a-loaf?
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
It's different for Brady and Manning
They’re estabblished, proven, elite QBs in the NFL. Moore is none of those. QBs that aren’t proven, like unproven players at all positions, have to prove themselves. Until they do, they will face competition. Did Kurt Warner flip out when the Giants drafted Eli Manning and the Cardinals drafted Matt Leinart? Did Drew Brees flip out when SD drafted Philip Rivers?
Manning doesn’t feel he’s near the end of his career and Favre didn’t either. They felt the team thought they were nearing their end. It’s different for players that are at the waning end of their careers and for players that are trying to play for their future.
The last time franchises selected QBs in the first round when they had established players, it worked out. It worked out for GB with Favre and Rodgers. It worked out with SF with Montana and Young. It worked out well for SD with Brees and Rivers. It worked out well for NYG with Eli and Warner. It worked out well for Arizona with Warner and Leinart. It is even working well for Denver with Tebow and Orton. When it doesn’t work out, it is when you have Marino and nobody. It is when you have Kelly and nobody. It is when you have Aikman and nobody. Like I said, we should hope for the best (Moore working out), but plan for the worst (Moore not working out). Otherwise if we plan for Moore succeeding and he fails, we’re drafting a QB in a few years later and we suffer through more years when we’re behind the curve.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
And comparing Moore to Henne is ludicrous.
Henne didn’t have success as a starter. He never played to the level Moore has. He also threw more picks than TDs in both his seasons. Henne never showed he had the talent to be a franchise QB.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
There surely wasnt 100% commitment to Henne
as evidenced by Ireland’s remarks about him in the offseason and the attempts to bring Kyle Orton to Miami. That stuff is damaging for a team.
I dont want the atmosphere in Miami to be poisonous for our Quarterback.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
I hate to say the exact same thing as someone else but in response
to what you are saying to me, Joel essentially articulates the point i was trying to make. This line especially.
“Dividing the fanbase between the 1st Rounder and the current QB can only lead to hasty decisions by management.”
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
All the fans want are wins.
If Moore starts the year 7-1 do you think they will be asking to play the rookie. If he starts the year 1-7 they will think Branstander is the answer.
Wtf is that, Joel?!!!
Rub-a-dub-dub?!!!
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Aaaah, I pictured you and that cat bathing together... lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Um...........
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Double um......................
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Your taste is in your mouth? lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
No your welcome to like crap good man.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 21, 2011 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
I like both of those two.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 21, 2011 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Then there is absolutely no way you'd
dislike 311 if you actually listened to an album.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Trust me I know the difference.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 21, 2011 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
I like a very wide array of music
to give you an idea I like everything from Johnny Cash to Dave Matthews to The White Stripes, Cage the Elephant, Weezer e.t.c. to Bjork, Skunk Anasie e.t.c. to Kelly Clarkson, Beyonce Knowles, Tiffany Alvord to Nine Inch Nails.
I like Sca music like No Doubt and Sublime as well as synthpop like La Roux.
Classical music, orchestral music and soundtracks as well.
So basically a mash of stuff.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
That is a very wide range lol
I range from the sublime, 311 and ballyhoo kind of music to No Doubt to Bad Religion/Offspring to Alicia Keyes to Metallica. If I’m going old school country, I like Johnny Cash but I prefer Willie Nelson
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Oh yeah,
I love The Fugees/Wyclef/Lauryn Hill and Outkast and Eminem
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Brail is moore my speed!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate! Have you touched & preened your beaver-pelt yet!
by wild zion beaver on Dec 20, 2011 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
For the part we disagree on
I don’t think a rookie QB is very risky and I don’t think it creates problems. The massive risk is to not draft a QB and then Moore doesn’t work out. If Moore works out, the rookie QB doesn’t play much, but has high stock because he has a few years in the NFL, but was a stud in college. Like other young QBs, he’d have a high trade price and we can get a pick in the future. That is less risky than being stuck without a QB.
As for Moore, if he does pan out, again we can trade our former rookie QB. As long as he performs, he has no reason to look over his shoulder. That is why I wouldn’t want the front office to take such a gamble. I simply don’t see it as a huge problem. I see it as a safety valve in case Moore fails.
Should we have no put Henne on the field because we weren’t 100% behind him? Should the Chargers not have put Drew Brees on the field because they’re not sure? You put the guy on the field to see if he is what he looks like he is, but you also should take steps in case he isn’t.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Losers? ptLsteve please enlighten me as to whom you are referring?
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
While I hope we land 1 of the big 3 qbs in the draft
Moore has convinced me enough to know that we have time to develop an incoming young qb. Miami only need to revamp the right side of their OL, secure an edge setting, pass rushing, playmaking OLB, and imo, drafting Dwight Jones, 6-4, 220lb, 4.4 -40 to pair with BM and bring redzone presence and fear to opposing defenses(especially the Jets) for years to come.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
Here is the thing
Some people want to believe that when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade, others want to as for strawberries instead.
That makes no sense until you look at it like this: Matt Moore is a Dolphin, he was the lemon this front office chose when we needed a QB, just as Pennington was when he fell on our laps.
Ultimately, he has done better than expected, at least better than anyone not named Feidler or Pennington since Marino.
Yet some still want something that when you take a bite out of it “watch play” you say " damn that tastes good" that is okay too, but in retrospect, setting hopes up, and thinking too far ahead will let you miss whats happening now.
People said we couldnt win with a solid run game and good defense, yet for five games, we have. Bush is having a career year. We are on point of having our first ever combo of a single reciever and runningback with 1000 yards each. Yet another accomplishment overlooked by the fact that we are repetitively looking onto next year. Truth is, we are 27 yards away from setting our own place in Dolphins history, and that feels great. The playoffs are not in the picture, but in the end, the same can be said for 23 other teams.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 10:06 AM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Moore = Feidler
They are pretty similar QB’s. I think the point people are making here is “are you happy with the chance at success we had with Feidler here or do you want a chance at the Rodgers, Breeses, Brady’s, and Mannings of the world?”
I don’t see why we can’t have both. With the exception of Luck, none of these QBs seem to be ready to come in and start right away. We have Moore under contract for another year. Draft a QB and let him sit behind Moore until Moore either proves he doesn’t have and we give the rookie a chance or Moore shows he can be great and we trade the kid for picks..
i've been waiting for this moment all my life...but it's not quite right.
It depends, if I remember correctly, at least Fiedler got us to the playoffs and made us competitive
Given the opportunity you have to ask yourself: IF the.coaching staff took the play it safe rules out of the playbook, and let Moore handle himself, would he be able to put teams to bed.
My thoughts about Moore is that we have an incomplete sample size. We cant say he cannot do what we claim he cannot, because he has yet to be in that position.
You also cannot argue that he can. I think that is what some fans are worried about. But truth is, arguably, the same thing goes for any of the draftees. College and pros are so different, even pro style offenses only offer partial sample sizes because quite frankly, they arent playing against pro style defenses.
Truth is, we really cant hedge our bets on Moore, but we also cant do the same for a rookie from any round, albeit that with having both, we hedge our bets for a stronger possibility. Though you have to ask yourself, will drafting a first round QB offer success? Or will it cause a Quarterback controversy. That was one of the things that occured in Denver when they drafted Jay Cutler, it happened again when they drafted Tebow to an extent. It will also most likely happen if the Colts draft Andrew Luck.
Speaking of which, that alone makes me dread and not feel any remorse for the Colts this year, that is what they have to look foreward to. I never envy that. They may arguably lose the best thing that has fell on their laps in years.
Thats why I am simply going to be happy if we draft a first round QB, however having Moore on the payroll is going to make me equally happy if we dont and simply allows us to add another piece to the puzzle on what is becoming a very solid 5 win team right now.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 4:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
What about the QB controversy in these cities....
SF with Montana/Young? SD with Brees/Rivers? GB with Favre/Rodgers? Did the controversies kill their chances? QB controversies only hurt both teams when both QBs are mediocre or suck. Cutler won the job when Plummer sucked and retired. Tebow won the job when Orton started off 1-4. When you don’t suck, you don’t lose your job. I don’t want to be like the Ravens in 2005 and pass over an Aaron Rodgers just because I want to see what Kyle Boller is made of. You don’t think they didn’t kick themselves for that? It’s a terrible position to be in. I’d rather be in SD’s shoes when Brees proves you wrong, but you have Rivers waiting just in case.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Matt Moore is not a 4 year starter
For everyone saying he’s been in the NFL for 4 years thats a bunch of crap. The guy was an undrafted QB out of college so everyone with a higher draft status is going to get all the chances before him. He has played better than we would expect any top tier QB comming out of college. He also has improved from week to week and has shown excelent decision making abilities. With Colombo on the O-line I’m surprised he has played as well as he has.
That being said we would be insane not to draft a top tier QB and hopefully spend a year behind Matt Moore. Would you say Moore is playing better than Sanchez or Matt Ryan
With all his games combined,
he’s just barely started one season.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Because he has finished on the IR in 2 of 4 NFL seasons and has played 33 games, the equivalent to 2 seasons...
Moore has also been a starter for 4 seasons after he took over Carolina in season. He is a 4-year starter that was benched for poor play and landed on the IR twice. That plays into the few games played. That’s not a very good excuse.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
From his wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Moore_(American_football)
Prior to this year he had 9 starts. Not sure where you;re getting 33 games.
He played in 33 is what I meant.
He has actually been in the NFL for 5 years, not 4 as I previously stated. I forgot he missed all of 2008 with another IR stint. Hes played in 33 games, in which he has started 23 of them. He started 3 in 2007, 5 each in 2009 and 2010, and 10 games this year.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
So that means he came in for mop up duty or as a relief pitcher
When you’re the starter you prepare all week and get valuable practice unlike being a backup. So I stick to the fact that when he started for us the first time he had less experience than Henne. If Henne was playing as well as Matt Moore he would be the second comming of Marino. But Since Matt Moore is a nobody that never got drafted he gets no respect and in no way can he be a great QB in the future. It can happen.
from his wikipage
Following his college career, Warner went undrafted in the 1994 NFL Draft.
It was at this time that Warner stocked shelves at a Hy-Vee grocery store in Cedar Falls for $5.50 an hour.11 This story was often used as the starting point when telling of his rise to NFL stardom in 1999. I think you know the rest of the story
Of course we still need to draft a QB in the first round :)
Some people may still put the faith into Henne...
But personally, I’d still want the pick. Henne though may get more love because he was drafted by Miami so they’d be clinging to their hope the pick would work out. Just a guess.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I think that train left the station, Fin. Henne’s tenure with Miami ended when his season did.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I agree, but I think his time with Miami officially ended when Moore played well.
Otherwise there could’ve been a slim chance Henne would return next year with a rookie.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Indeed.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see Miami resigning Henne
We have Moore under contract for another year. They have to draft a first round QB or half of the few remaining fans will give up. And that last spot is usually a nobody QB that you get cheap.
Henne will command $2-3 million a year to be a backup somewhere.
Depends, he has already stated he doesnt want to leave miami
In the end, we may see him in a phins uni next year. Granted the comments were made before we laid off Sparano, but Henne credited both the coach and the players. May turn out that we have Henne/Moore/Draftee in the end, which gives us a little more cushion in case one doesnt pan out.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 8:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I had that off and got games mixed with starts. Luckily I only said he played in 33 games lol.
Still, he’s started 23 of them, which isn’t far off.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Which is not even 1.5 seasons,
so me saying just over a season was accurate, n’est-ce pas?
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Is the glass half empty or half full?
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
It will be this week!
And over half by season’s end. Ha!
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
And by seasons end,
he’ll have proven himself to be a great starter! Double ha!
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
You two need a time out?!!
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Close call
I think Moore is playing better than Sanchez — not sure about Ryan. Ryan has turned it on the last few weeks. Sanchez has not been helped by his supporting cast at all this year. Of those 3, I’d rank them Ryan, Moore, Sanchez.
We need to draft one of the top tier QB’s in the upcoming draft, but I’m all for keeping Moore and having him start next year. Let the new guy sit and learn for awhile at least. It’s okay to have 2 good options at QB. Think the Colts wish they had a better option than Kerry Collins or Matt Painter this year?
The way the Eagles have played the last 2 weeks, stop and think how good their chances would be to do some damage in the playoffs if Vince Young hadn’t taken over for a few games. Nobody wants to play the Eagles right now.
Official member of "The Luck Fleet"
Nobody hurt a tackler like Zonk did.
by rintintinsoldier on Dec 19, 2011 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
Here is where they stack up
- Mat Ryan 90.5
- Matt Moore 88.7
- Cam Newton 82.3
- Mark Sanchez 82.2
That includes his first game and first start
where he was getting used to the system and getting down timing with his new WRs.
In his last 9 games, including the losses to The Broncos and The Giants, he has an average QB rating of… wait for it… 97.9
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I'm with you
But having a great rating and dominating a game are two different things.
Rogers and Breese DOMINATE games.
Rivers and Roethlisberger win games.
Moore puts his team in a position to win. (at least so far he has not made that next step)
Yeah, and I wasn't even looking at ratings
Just more overall — which QB would I want leading my team.
Sanchez I don’t believe will ever have pocket presence and that “it” factor.
I’ve also seen Ryan not look so hot under pressure.
Moore has had a few issues with pressure, but I’m with you, the only thing he hasn’t shown us yet is the metal to win a close game in the 4th quarter. He hasn’t been in that position, especially in the last 5 or so games. Let’s see if we can play with New England next week. Maybe Moore will have his chance to shine.
Of course, everyone will say it was against a horrid defense, but I don’t care.
Official member of "The Luck Fleet"
Nobody hurt a tackler like Zonk did.
by rintintinsoldier on Dec 19, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
a win is a win
He will need to bring his A game because Brady can score lots of points. The good thing is that our running game has been solid.
Even with NE's horrid defense,
they only have 3 losses. If Moore puts up big numbers and beats Brady in the 4th Quarter, he will have bested the 2nd or 3rd best team in the league IMO.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
He did have two weeks to prep for the Jets you know...
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Oh paleez.
Like two weeks shooting at paper targets.
Like my firearms instructor used to say, “when the firefight starts, you’ll ask yourself two questions. Where’s the nearest cover, and why isn’t my ass behind it.”
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
by Alpha6 on Dec 19, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, two weeks is what people get before they deploy! You should know that...
I’m not saying it wasn’t difficult, but I don’t pretend like Moore was suddenly thrusted into the lineup in the 3rd quarter of the Jets game.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
What I want to see from Matt Moore
I want to see him take this team under his wing and win a game for us in the 4th quarter. That’s about the only thing he hasn’t done for us. Face it he is a top 10 QB and if Chad Henne was playing this well he would be the franchise quarterback for the team.
I think Moore has the ability to step up in crunchtime if :
our coaching and playcalling allows him to and if we can get Gates to do his part to effectively stretch the field in addition to showcasing Bush out in space.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
forget about gates
You can’t use gates until you replace Colombo. I counted 2 plays against the eagles where Colombo allowed the presure that turning into turnovers. One was obvious… the fumble and the interception where the defender gets pushed right into Moore.
Last week the fumble was also caused by Colombo. I really feel that he is the ONE weak link on the offense. This guy has cost us several games. Jerry did a better job than Colombo filling in for Long.
I think Jerry moves to RT once Long comes back.
If not, Bowles will have made a crucial error that would make me doubt his ability as a HC.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Todd Bowles seemed to be seperated from this game alot to me, outside of his interaction with the secondary
which is his expertise. In some ways this is good. We have two very capable coordinators. Let them do their job. As for him though I would be shocked if he returns next season as Head Coach. My concern is if he will be retained at all due to the perception of demotion. I dont know how he will do with that.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
there is no perception of demotion
If there was any thought of promoting from within they would have promoted Nolan. by promoting Bowels I think everyone knows its a temporary job.
Well technically, Bowles was next in line, not Nolan
Bowles was asst head coach, Nolan was D coordinator. The fact that he was given the promotion shouldnt indicate that its temporary, only that he was next in line.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 1:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
dude
assistant head coach means nothing. there are like 5 or 6 on a team at any given moment.
the food chain works like this GM→ HC → OC and DC (are equal but Nolan has more experience)
What about seniority? I understand that Bowels had more of it....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Nolan's been a head coach in the NFL
Don’t know what you mean?
ToT, Time on Team... lol
Idk. It’s just what I heard… or read… lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Not true
The equipment manager has been on the team the longest. Just kidding :)
Quit it... Enhalen is getting excited.
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
He'll only get a look if he beats NE and NJ.
If Miami loses then on to the next one. But if he wins them, especially if it’s convincingly, then he might get the nod.
Haters gon' hate...
I would love to see Moore take this team under his wing and just pound the ball down every team's cut,
but he is playing under this regimes plans. With their mind set on play conservative in the 4th quarter with the lead we wont see if Moore could play each quarter with the same compacity and passion on the ferild as alot of the top tier qb’s out there can do.
by phinfansc1980 on Dec 19, 2011 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien...
… just saying. You have to be an elite QB to take your team to the show right? … well they are some non-elite winners … some other recent “non-elite” runners up … Chris Chandler, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delholme, Neil O’Donnell. Go back further – Tony Eason? Jim McMahon?
Then there are the likes of Rich Gannon who didn’t turn in big numbers until late in his career – likewise Kurt Warner.
Great Ones who never won a superbowl … Marino, Kelly, Esiason, McNair, McNabb. And Warren Moon never even played in one. Oh and while we’re about it what were Elway’s numbers in 1998? Those bowl games were won on Davis’ back – with limited doses of John Elway. Back when Elway was unstoppable Denver were 0-4 in superbowls.
Conclusion – It is not mandatory to have a prototype “hall of fame” QB to win or visit a superbowl. Elite QBs cannot be magicked out of the air and when they are, there are still no guarantees. Even if we find a great one, they may not win consistently for 1 year, 2 or more. A Good QB having a great year is often enough. Enjoy what we have we could do, and have done lately, a lot LOT worse.
PS – Passing numbers were in Buffalo, in the snow and crappy weather conditions. Does no-one factor these things in any more?
PPS – Only post Marino QB with a better stat line than Matt Moore is Chad Pennington, and there weren’t many complaints there by the time we were 11-5.
by Armchair QB on Dec 19, 2011 10:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree with you
But it’s no reason not to go out and get a Franchise QB. I think every team needs an Franchise QB and a solid backup. Right now we have a solid backup that’s playing like a top 10 QB.
Moore is not a franchise qb, at least not now
Drafting 1 of the big 3 ensures we have a plan B if Moore doesn’t pan out. Moore done good in his debut at Carolina when he came off the bench to end their season on a good note, only to regress the following year as their starter. He has been functional for us so far, but the franchise tag is pushing it.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Rec'd...
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Question for you, Armchair...
Name the last time an elite QB didn’t win the Super Bowl. Give up? Brad Johnson was the last one, NINE years ago, and then Trent Dilfer before that, back in Super Bowl XXXV. Before that it was Mark Rypien in Super Bowl XXVI.
The names of the other QB’s that HAVE won between then and now, you ask? It’s a who’s-who in terms of elite QB’s:
Rodgers, Brees, Big Ben, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, John Elway, Brett Favre, Troy Aikman, Steve Young.
Given the fact that it’s more of a passing league nowadays, rather than the old-school 3 yards and a cloud of dust, I couldn’t disagree with you more about the importance of having an elite QB.
End Rant.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
I agree you have a persuasive argument, I just don't think it's the be all
I named those QBs at the start of my post, so I’m aware it’s been a while, but as i also point out, guys like Jake Delholme and solid QB with talent on a good stretch but not elite, came very close – Hasselbeck is another. Heck Brady wasn’t considered elite until he won that first Bowl – he pretty much came out of nowhere. Elway still had the vet smarts and leadership but wasn’t the Elway from earlier in his career when he won those two in the 90s.
You’re right – having an elite QB sure helps, but I don’t think even nine years is enough to conclusively prove it can’t be done with a good QB and decent all round play. Whoever coaches us will evaluate our talent – but no reason Moore can’t improve.
I agree with you but
Eli Manning is not elite.
Eli Manning is a frachise QB
Not elite. Like I said earlier the only elite QB’s now are Rogers, Breese and Brady. Everyone else is bellow that level.
What DolphinNation said!
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
nice post!
I would say at this point Matt Moore could be the next Rich Gannon.
I think Moore could be the future of this franchise. Everyone is focused on who might we draft. People need to pay attention to what we have. I could see this team easily making the playoffs if they had a full offseason with Matt Moore as a starter and an upgrade over Colombo.
by mjams on Dec 19, 2011 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You don't need to have an elite QB to win a Super Bowl.
But having one sure makes it a hell of a lot easier.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
exactly
An elite QB can overcome other weaknesses. Ask the colts about that one. For that matter ask Miami… Marino made the Dolphins a playoff contender each year.
An elite QB without a team doesn't win Super Bowls.
Even The Colts had a better defense, RB, O-Line and WRs all around when they got it done.
A good QB (and this is for sake of argument, because I think Moore is on the cusp of “greatness”) and a great team can still push deep. Hell, Dirty Sanchez has made two AFC Championship trips in a row. They were a good break away from being in The Super Bowl. Moore is 100x greater than Sanchez.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Shit... you threw half the people off with "cusp"....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
They did have a better D, RB, and OL than what they were accustomed to.
But the RBs and defense weren’t that good and the OL was one-sided like Miami’s in the 1990s and only performed well pass blocking.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Oh...
And QBs are still expected to perform during the cold. Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Roethlisberger have all done it. It’s difficult yes. Playoff games are usually played in the cold. QBs better be able to play in the cold.
Mooe having the 2nd best stat line since Marino is more damning to our team over the past 10 years than anything else. We were 11-5 thanks to a great defense, a strong running game, and a good game manager of a QB. We never did anything in the postseason and both times were crushed when we faced stout defenses. I don’t want to stay on that same path…
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
We also didn't have a #1 Wideout,
had an aging RB and a RB with a fondness for severe season ending injuries, had one serviceable TE and had a defense that only looked good because of the easy schedule in the beginning of the year.
Now, we have a WR corps that is probably Top 10 in the league, a hell of a running game and a much better defense. The comparisons don’t really stack up. Moore is Pennington with a stronger arm and the ability to run if need be.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
I think as the league evloves the QB position becomes more and more importatant each year.
Instead of throwing out names also tell me how long it has been between now and when each of those won a trophy.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Moore is elite
Ok not really… but He’s 5-2 in last 7 games, He is the QB of right now. He hit the hardest throw in the game yesterday with the over the shoulder throw to Marshall. He’s going to be the starting QB next year no matter what the draft brings so you might as well get use to it.
Moore is playing like a top 10 QB
But he is not playing anywhere close to elite. In no particular order
Let’s start by defining elite. Drew Breese , Tom Brady, Aron Regers, Peyton Manning.
Next Level is franchise QB Eli Manning, Mat Safford, Ben Roethlisberger, Philip Rivers.
Not think about where you would stack Moore in this list.
I did not mean for it to be an all inclusive list
Just to help get an idea of where he stands.
cutler is one level lower
With the likes of romo, ryan and schaub
Admiral of the RGIII "Robert Griffin"
Reggie Bush for 2012 pro bowl
New Orleans OC Carmichael for HC.
Grand Cardinal of the first holy church of brandstater (the phinsider), and founder of the second holy church of brandstater (turf show times).
by AnishB15 on Dec 19, 2011 10:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree along with Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan.
They are however all amazing and fully capable of leading a team to the Superbowl.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
Eli has a superbowl and proved in that win against the Pats that he has the
nuts for crunchtime, as we saw this year in the Dallas, Packers, and oh yeah, our Dolphins.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
i think eli has garnished my respect as a top tier qb this season.
i would have argued against it last season, but hte man has really stepped up his game,
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
I hate all the Mannings....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
even taryn manning
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Um.... um.... brb.... lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Really?
Did I either of you watch football yesterday?
lol... between Family Guy and Two and a Half Men....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
This^^^
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Of what?
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
... the water cooler.
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
my ball shrine
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 20, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
lol... please see below pic just for you... lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
But only Alpha and Finhead care about that.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 21, 2011 12:14 AM EST up reply actions
Matt Moore will not win us a game in the fourth quarter this year
The reason is Colombo… Until we can protect him he won’t be able to take over a game when everyone knows we’re passing. That’s why he played poorly against the Eagles. There was no pocket… nowhere to step up. Even when Colombo had help on the outside he would get beat on the inside. I think we need to change our banner from fire Ireland to fire Ireland and Colombo
Well,
Jerry is the obvious choice to start at RT when Long comes back. Let’s hope Bowles is man enough to replace an underachieving starter, unlike Sparano.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
one can only hope.
Got nothing to lose at this point.
It would be very nice to only need a guard and some depth out of the draft this year.
Then we could use that 1st rounder for a stud OLB once Moore wins out ;)
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Yelp, going to be interesting, but is it safe to let Long return?
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
You guys do realized that we haven't beaten a team
with a winning record this year right? Dont get me wrong, I like wins, but I think people are going a little over the top.
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
I feel ya, Flyer
I’m looking for playmakers in this year’s draft and FA, that includes QB and OLB. We must also anchor that right side of our OL and give it some depth.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
we beat the raiders when they were 7-4
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
But...
They’re also 3-5 with Palmer as QB and they were without McFadden.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Fraud Dawg, your mixing your work into here... lol
Hey wouldn’t it be nice to get a percentage of the fraud monies when they’re caught? Say like, 10 percent or better? Take about incentive to nail the bastards!
So what are you spending your Christmas bonus on? lmao….
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Like locals and the states do when they seizes cars and houses?
What Christmas Bonus? My Bonus is I don’t have to work on Sunday!
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Don’t forget a safety, while we’re at it. Another CB wouldn’t be the worst idea, either, considering Will Allen is in his 11th season.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
Ya think?
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Gotta have it Alpha.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Moore Bush?
lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
bess long, moore bush?
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Long Pouncey?
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Thank you for pointing that out to the people who truly believe Matt Moore can take us to the promise land. To those of you who think he’s the future, here are some numbers for you, merely going by total points allowed, of the teams Miami has beaten this year:
Buffalo – 27th (17th against the pass)
Oakland – 29th (23rd against the pass)
Washington – 16th (T14th against the pass)
Kansas City – 22nd (9th against the pass)
Given his QB rating vs. KC of 147.5, he had a great game against a top 10 pass defense, but other than that, who has he faced other than the bottom 3rd of the league’s pass defenses, with Washington being in the top half?
Draft. A. Fucking. Quarterback. In. The. First. Round. It worked pretty well the last time, back in 1983.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
We need to see Moore
So far he’s having a great year the type of year we expected from Henne. But that’s not enough to skip the backup plan. We have to keep doing everything possible to get a franchise QB even if it means having two of them.
Moore reminds me of Wes Welker. Just because he was small and did not fit the mold of a WR we kept wanting to replace him. To the point we traded him to New England. All hi did while he was here was make plays yet because he did not fit the mold we let him go.
If you look at New England they are filed with misfits. Players too small or too slow or passed over by other teams but they have heart and they’re smart. They win games.
Moore could be that overlooked star or he could be another fitzgerald from buffalo.
You’ll see plenty of Moore during the first few weeks of next season, if not the entire season. If Miami drafts a QB, they’ll let him sit until they’re out of playoff contention. Give him a clipboard and let him learn the playbook, and then come 2013, let him be the starter.
Great analogy about Moore being Ryan Fitzpatrick – that’s exactly what he is.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
This.
I have no problem with Moore starting next year, as long as we do everything we can to draft a franchise QB.
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
And by everything we can
I mean actually doing it.
"It's not just linebackers. This is Penn State linebackers, man. We're a certain type. We've gotta be aggressive, relentless, focused. Don't talk. Don't talk at all. We don't showboat or anything. We just play hard and get the job done." -Khairi Fortt
To clarify...
KC still is not a good team against the pass. Their pass defense has still been bad, but their run defense has sucked worse. Teams generally don’t pass much when they can run all day against the other and the opposing offense also can’t score. KC still allows 7.7 YPA, has allowed 22 passing TDs, and has only 27 sacks. Buffalo allows 7.6 YPA, has allowed 26 passing TDs, and has only 21 sacks. Neither of those teams have very good secondaries. If their run defenses weren’t both allowing over 130 YPG, over 4.2 (Buf has 4.8!) YPC, and have allowed less than 14 run TDs, their secondaries would probably be shredded a bit more than they have been. If you look at how they do compared to some of the other teams on a per play basis, you’ll see that neither KC or Buffalo have good secondaries. The only thing they were good at are causing INTs, but Buffalo has struggled with that recently as well.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Buffalo has ball hawks in their secondary,
as does KC. Jarius Byrd and Brandon Flowers anyone? There’s a reason teams CHOOSE to run instead of passing. When your secondary causes teams to choose the safer route with running, there’s something there.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Flowers and Byrd have struggled a lot.
Jarius Byrd is not a ball hawk. You’re giving him that based on his rookie campaign 3 years ago when many INTs fell into his lap. He has 3 INTs in 2 years. I like Byrd and I like what he can do, but 1 safety does not make a secondary.
Brandon Flowers has historically been a good CB, but he’s had issues this year. He has allowed nearly 56% of passes thrown to him to be completed and has surrendered over 600 yards and 8 TDs. Opposing QBs have a QB Rating of 98.7 against him. By comparison, Sean Smith has allowed 59% of passes thrown to him to be completed and has surrendered over 600 yards as well, but has allowed 5 TDs. Again, 1 CB does not make a secondary.
Outside of Brandon Flowers, neither Buffalo or KC has a CB that ranks in the top 30 in the NFL. KC also lacks a safety that ranks in the top 60. Yes, 60.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Good points.
I’m sure we can agree The Jets have a great secondary. Shall we see how Moore performs against them?
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
That will be his best test yet.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I'm just happy to be excited about Dolphins football again
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
That is definitely the most true statement made. Ditto.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I'm so happy, I shit myself.....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I disagree heavily on Jarius Byrd and the
current situation of the Bills safeties. Of the safety tandems we seen all year, Jarius Byrd and George Wilson are one of my absolute favorites and they both pose plenty of problems for an offense that result in turnovers.
Consider three things. First and second go together. Fact when Jarius Byrd and George Wilson are in the lineup together the Bills have generated turnovers despite giving huge yardage throught the air including 4 interceptions against New England and 4 interceptions against the Eagles, which in both games went along way to saving those games for them. In the games that George Wilson has been out the Bills are losing the tunrover margin by 1.3 a game and havent been able to generate interceptions.
The reason is that Jarius Byrd and George Wilson present so many problems for an offense that on the surface may not be seen. The Bills are a single high safety team so they need tow well rounded and athletic safeties that can play every depth of the coverage. Wilson and Byrd allow George Edwards to do so much more defensively. They suffer as a defense when without either one. For example in the first game with Buffalo George Wilson didnt play. Da’Norris Searcy got the start. O nthe 46 yard pattern to Clay against Cover 1, the major defensive gaff came when Jairus Byrd changed Searcy’s depth pre-snap. Searcy ended up playing zone at the same depth (in what was supposed to be a layered zone) as Kelvin Sheppard.
With Wilson in the lineup this wouldnt happen.
As for Flowers i like him as well, however like CT says so often about Vontae Davis, Flowers has also been stereotyped as a Cover 2, zone and leverage corner who will struggle at the NFL level with man coverage. Im not too familiar with the intracacies of Cornerback play (maybe you could help me here?) but this hurdle has plagued Davis as well. Not to say they cant play man but they have inherent limitations with it. Thats been the common perception.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
by civwarbuff on Dec 19, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Bills have a pretty good safety duo
But their CBs are terrible. Wilson and Byrd aren’t exactly ballhawks and it’s not like Wilson a ton of time. He and Byrd were in the lineup when they were lit up by Dallas when Romo was 23-26 with 3 TDs and 0 INTs. They were both in the lineup when Rivers went 24-33 with 3 TDs and 0 INTs. They were both in the lineup when Campbell went 23-33 with 323 yards and 2 TDs. Even though Brady threw 4 INTs (Wilson wasn’t even on the field for 2 of them), he still threw for 4 TDs and close to 400 yards. Even when he picked on Mark Sanchez, he still allowed the mistake-prone QB to go 20-28 for 230 yards and a TD.
Regardless, Wilson has still allowed 70% of the passes thrown his way to be completed and has surrendered 3 TDs, a poor number for a safety. He ranks 60th among safeties in coverage, 69th in completion % against, 67th in yards allowed, and is 65th in TDs allowed. Those are just for safeties too, not all DBs. Sorry if I don’t believe Wilson has been all that great. The dude can make some plays, but he gets played just as often.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Ok. There is somewhat of a disconnect between us here.
My point was simply this, The Bills are a single high safety team and a huge part of what George Edwards does defensively is reliant upon his safeties because of this scheme and the multitude of responsibilities that they have in his defense. There is a direct coorelation between the teams turnover margin and having both of their safeties in the lineup. What they do for Edwards defense is immeasurable.
As for their play I agree both have their problems but they are accentuated by how demanding their scheme is and the turnover margin of the team has been a major factor in saving their team in games despite the massive yardage that their team has given up.
If you want to talk about thier pass defense as a whole we can do that, but that was simply my point, that you were overlooking how valuable Wilson and Byrd are to their club.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
Yes because the last time we did we won several rings...
People keep pointing to Marino as a successful move, and claim getting to the promised land is easier with a top tier QB. Then why didnt Marino do it???
Not saying he wasnt elite, but what i am saying is that getting a first round QB isnt always the surefire way to getting to the super bowl.
People also tend to forget that while Brady, Peyton, and Rothlisberger all made it to the big show, they won because of solid defense, and the ability of the qb to do enough to keep points on the board.
Its funny how many times we name elite QBs and give them credit, when even in the super bowls they arent the only ones that got them there.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 1:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
you defy logic
“People keep pointing to Marino as a successful move, and claim getting to the promised land is easier with a top tier QB. Then why didnt Marino do it???”
Easier means easier not a guarantee. You need a complete team to win a super bowl. But it sure makes it EASIER if your offense is scoring 30+ point a game. EASIER If you can win a game in the fourth quarter one or twice a season. EASIER if poeple believe then can win the game instead of believing here we go again.
+1
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
If every elite QB won a Super Bowl, your argument would have value. Now we’re all dumber for reading this.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Marino was the sole reason we went to a superbowl and were constantly a playoff
contender. Marino was ahead of his time if you go back and compare stats with other qbs of his tenure, as a matter of fact, Marino will guarantee us a sb with the present team we have today.Guaranteed!!!! He is simply built for today’s NFL and that my friend is an understatement.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Which part are you referring to? I’m sure it has nothing to do with the fact that the Pats are ranked 32nd in pass defense this season…at least I’d better be sure that’s not the part you’re referencing.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
with all this negative energy, you would think that we lost.
i’m happy we won and played a good game. that is all. no need to tear apart the win or give any of the haters any fuel to fire back with. go dolphins and beat those patriots!
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
To be clear – I’m not hating on a win. Trust me when I tell you this – I live in upstate NY. When the Dolphins beat the Bills, I’m a happy SOB.
That said, though…let’s hold off the ceremony in Canton for Matt Moore. It’s a tad much.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
this isnt about matt moore for me.
its about the dolphins beating a divisional rival.
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
…and like I said, I’m all about beating the Bills. This has nothing to do, at least for me, about hating on anything, but for Chrisssakes…let’s not think the 2nd coming of Marino is already on the roster, because he’s not.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
That can go both ways...
Lets also not think that the next coming of Marino is waiting patiently for us come draft day.
Truth is, unless Dan the man has a kid playing QB, there will NEVER be another Marino. However, i would like to point out that in a couple of years, there will be another Rodgers :)
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 4:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i dont personally think too highly of matt moore.
i think he has played pretty well and above average, but i also feel that he make some bad decisions in taking sacks and fumbling the ball. i like him as our best chance to win right now, but as for every player on our roster, there is always someone better potentially that could come in a dethrone the starter.
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
The more competition you have, the better your team becomes. Look at USC when Carroll was coaching there. He had, what, 5 or 6 classes in a row that were in the top 3 in the country, and that was his mantra. There were 5 star recruits that were 3rd-stringers in that team.
I couldn’t agree more with that. Everyone should be playing for their jobs at this point in the season.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
i cant resist so i will repost something i said yesterday
Some people choose to find positives in the things they love to focus their attention on while recognizing the negatives and work to improve them.
Some people choose to find the negatives in the things they love focus their attention on while not taking the time to enjoy the positives.
There are more then one way to go through life. As a fan you can take many paths. It is not more or less of a fan to root whichever way you choose too. Being a fine is a great metaphor for life. You have a choice in whether you want to go through life focusing on the negatives and loosing sight of the happiness right in front of you, or living in the moment and still striving to improve the future.
The bottom line is that we have no control over how this team finishes the season. We have no idea what the team will do in the offseason. But what we do know is that the Miami Dolphins won a football game today. You can choose to react whatever way you choose. I am very happy and feel great about it.
Go Dolphins and beat those Patriots!
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I did that with my last ex-wife. Big mistake... Huge mistake... Coloassal error...
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
lol
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 19, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
More like some people choose to ignore the positives
and have their heart set on the magic of the next draft class.
I was as adamant about getting a 1st rounder last year as anyone, but I’ve come to realize that we hit the jackpot with Moore. Unless he has a downward spiral against The Pats and Jets, I see no reason not to extend his contract and name him the starter.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
The worrying part about Moore...
He looked great for Carolina as well. They thought he could be the QB of the future after Delhomme. He was injured, sucked, and injured again after that. I don’t want him to fall back into mediocrity after how he’s been playing, but he’s done it before after he was named the starter going forward…
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
He was injured behind the Carolina O-line.
He was even hurt while starting last year. When our O-Line gives him time, he plays great. When they allow 4 sacks, he doesn’t.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Carolina's OL wasn't far off our own last year.
And Moore just didn’t do well at all. Most QBs will be successful when the OL gives them ample time, but Moore doesn’t just have a glowing history behind him. That’s why I don’t fully trust him yet.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Matt Moore is playing really good football right now.
Could we go into NE, Pitt, GB, or NO and win a shootout? I don’t think so, but ya never know until he’s given the opportunity. Still need to draft a QB in round 1. Worse case scenario: our 1st round QB busts and we try again in 3 or 4 years. No reason we can’t have Moore on the roster for 3 or 4 more years as well.
The general consensus is that the odds say elite QB’s are taken in the first round, our other holes can be filled with our other 5 picks and free agency. There are a lot more successful 2-7 round OLBs or RTs than QB’s in the NFL right now, and there is a reason for that. It’s the same reason teams don’t draft RBs in round one, even though its an important position.
The OLB you seek can be had in Round 3. He goes by the name of Sean Spence.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly!
Will our QB of the future be found in round 3? Not very likely, according to the odds. Just went thru a list of starting QBs from this season 25/50 were first rounders.
Well, let’s just say that we haven’t had much luck in drafting QB’s in any other round, other than round 1. I’ll probably break out into cold sweats when typing the following names, as examples, since they drafted some QB out of Pitt in ’83:
John Beck (2)
Pat White (2)
Chad Henne (2)
Josh Hueppel (6)
Scott Mitchell (4)
Kerwin Bell (7)
Not exactly household names.
Dean May (5)
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
Who the f**k is Dean May?!!
Holy
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Yeah exactly. My sure-fire research abilities…aka google…brought up that gem.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
lmfao @ "brought up that gem"
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I tell you that Dean is going to be a star one of these days, or not.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
Think so, eh? You must think Jacory Harris is going to be a star as well!!
I jest, I jest…but I can’t say I’m disappointed that he’s leaving our beloved U. Hopefully they’ll run with Crow as the starter in 2012. I saw Lamar Miller declared, but could you believe Ray Ray is staying for his senior year?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 20, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I can not believe Ray Ray is leaving and I love Jacory Harris' drive but I hate his big ole back of suck at times.
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 21, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Mark May!
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 20, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
I find it ironic that this team is finally playing at the level we all expected them to play at going in to week one,
and half of you are ready to attribute it to some miracle performed by Matt Moore.
Matt Moore.... the NEW Brandester! Or how ever the hell it's spelled....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
You hush your mouth about Brandstater! :)
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
If Henne was playing as well as Moore
He would be our QB of the future . Why is it Moore can’t get that same respect?
Disclaimer: I still think we need to draft a QB in the first round.
Do you mean after the 1st week of the season, when Henne threw for 400+ yards? Everyone said the same thing about him “turning the corner,” or “taking that next step.” Amazing how a few games changes the perception of how a player is viewed. The reason why I’m not giving Moore respect is, quite frankly, he did it against shitty pass defenses (other than KC, of course, to which I’ll give Moore a bit of credit).
Disclaimer – I still wasn’t convinced that Henne was the man after that performance.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Truth. (the first part)
Jury’s out on the 2nd part until we see him finish out the year IMO.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
It sure as hell wasn't Henne calling the shots.
Moore is far and away a better leader, a better passer and an all around better/smarter football player than Henne.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Joel – what makes you think Moore is the QB of the future? You seem hell-bent on saying to hell with the QB in next year’s draft, so either you know something we don’t know, or you’re Mel Kiper in disguise, predicting this draft class will be an absolute failure at the next level. Of course, you may be related to Matt Moore as well. Whichever it is, please inform me/us, because frankly, I don’t want to go into another season of mediocrity (or worse) with another also-ran behind the wheel at QB, without having someone waiting in the wings as an option, and by that, I don’t mean J.P. Losman.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I have eyes.
Matt Moore makes good decisions, has great touch on his passes, has the arm strength to make all the throws and has the feet to buy time when need be. What are you looking for in the rookie QB? Everything I mentioned.
Our defense is stellar. If we had a 1st round stud OLB opposite Wake, we’d be unstoppable. I don’t feel like drafting a 1st Round QB just for the sake of doing it is the best option when you have everything you could want in your current QB. Let him finish out the year against division rivals and we can revisit this.
And I never said the current draft class was going to fail, I’m pointing out that everything you can say you want a 1st Rounder to potentially do, Matt Moore already does.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
We need to QB's anyway
So to be on the safe side sign a 1st round QB and let him sit on the bench. If Moore plays like he has keep playing him. If he starts to struggle or gets hurt put in the rookie.
If Moore turns out to be a star we can always trade one of the QB’s.
Cover all the bases.
If Moore is the next Kurt Warner we win.
If Moore is the next Henee we have a nice rookie to trow in there. We win
If rookie is next Marino.We win
If rookie is the next Henne we still have Moore. We win
See win win win or win. Unless Moore stinks and the rookie stinks when no win. But al least we tried.
If you are preaching that the drafted QB needs to sit,
why should we take him in the first round. If you expect Moore to play at least a year, then a project QB with a very high ceiling works just as well as drafting a guy who should be starting halfway through the season. You know, like Brady and Brees…two of those guys everybody keeps saying they want a QB like? Brady especially was given the time he needed to develop because NE was stable at QB.
In fact, taking a QB in the later rounds to develop is much better than taking one in the early rounds to develop. We are wasting a 1st round pick which could be an OLB equivalent of Von Miller on a QB that’s not going to see the field in his first year. THAT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE.
This is why I agree with civ so much on this subject, you can’t draft a QB that’s supposed to be ready to start right away and expect the QB in front of him to not look over his shoulder. We need whoever is our future franchise QB to know he’s our guy for the long haul, not just a band-aid.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Marino did not start
Marino sat on the bench his rookie year. Until one day coaches were impressed with him and put him in as the starter in WEEK 6. This is the no presure I’m talking about. Put the rookie in when he has proven to be better than the veteran. Instead of throwing him out there on day one and expecting him to learn on the job.
You really think the guy in front of Marino felt no pressure? Come on.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
LOL!! Got a cat in your pocket?!!
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
A 6th round pick normally does not develop to the level of a 1st round pick. That's why.
They’re 6th round picks for a reason. They have more flaws that may not be corrected.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
6th round Quarterbacks tend to have/be
“poor build, skinny, lack physical stature and strength, lack mobility and ability to move in the pocket, lack a very strong arm, struggle with driving the ball down the field, do not throw very tight spirals, stystem type-player who will be exposed if forced to ad-lib, and go down easily”……………..
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
Who’s your “stud” OLB that you want to draft in Round 1? Courtney Upshaw or Brandon Jenkins (if he comes out)?
I’ll give you Frank Alexander or Bruce Irvin in Round 2 or Sean Spence in Round 3 that will accomplish the same things as they would in Round 1.
Wanna draft a RT in round 1 instead? Kahil won’t be on the board when we pick in the 1st round, and the next 2 guys on the list are juniors. There are 3 other tackles available in round 2 that would do the job, not to mention John Jerry possibly being the RT of the future in Miami. So basically, we’re looking for depth along the O-line at this point, unless you’re planning on spending a 1st round pick on a Guard like DeCastro or (maybe) Glenn.
What other needs at other positions are so pressing that we need to address in Round 1, other than a QB?
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I think John Jerry will be Tackle.
And yeah, it doesn’t look like there are any beastly OLBs on the board right now. If there isn’t come draft time, why not pick up some future picks? Seems to work for New England. You want to treat a QB like a project QB, then draft a project QB.
Hell, I’d be happy with Justin Blackmon if he fell to us.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Here’s the thing, though. You’re drafting needs in Round 1, and if there isn’t a need, you with with BPA or trade the pick. The Dolphins have a need at QB, no matter how you slice it. Even if Moore is the starter next year, you only have 1 other QB on the roster, really, unless you want to re-sign J.P. Losman, and the other QB (Devlin) hasn’t taken a snap. So, you either draft a QB, or you pick one up off the scrapheap on the FA wire. Also, for clarification, I don’t want to draft another project QB, like we have over the course of the last, oh, 5 seasons (see above for that list). I want to draft a kid with upside – a kid who has the potential to be a franchise QB for the next decade. Matt Moore is not that guy, but perhaps RG3 or Barkley is. If they’re not on the board when it gets to our pick in Round 1, I’m fine going in another direction, but if one (or both, which is doubtful) slides to us, you have to pull the trigger. Also – keep this in mind. The next head coach of the Dolphins is going to want to bring his own guys in, especially at the Quarterback position.
Now, if the QB’s are off the board, fine, trade down or draft another position of need (T, OLB, SS, G, as examples). Sure, they’re not exactly a sexy pick in Round 1, but it will fill a position of need, at the end of the day.
RE: Blackmon – I would be too, but that’s not going to happen. The Rams will pick him before us, for sure.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 20, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
We disagree on whether Moore is a franchise QB,
so discussing draft strategy really isn’t going to go anywhere.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
Redzone issues
I don’t hate Matt Moore. I had to say that.
Our issues in the Redzone have everything to do with QB play. OK, not everything as BM likes to drop TD passes, but A LOT.
The difference between an Elite QB and a good QB can be seen in their success in the Redzone when the field is smaller, there is less room for mistakes, and less time for processing. Look at Brady’s success in the Redzone. What was the ridiculous stat he had regarding Redzone INTs? Rodgers? Same. Hell, even look at Luck’s number in college. An elite QB makes the play in the Redzone. An Elite QB makes the perfect throw. An Elite QB doesn’t miss the wide open FB or TE to force the ball to his #1 WR who has already shown he has a problem holding onto the ball.
i've been waiting for this moment all my life...but it's not quite right.
Not necessarily, there are a bunch of things that attribute to red zone play
And quite frankly, QB is the least of concerns.
You have defenses covering less ground. That means that they can get to where they need to be, faster. Less zone space for corners and lb’s to cover. Thats why you typically see running plays.
Speaking of running plays, teams expect it, so with less space to cover, they send more to stop the run. Typically the area that people have to cover requires 5-7 guys, allowing for Olinemen to typically see one on one matchups that they dont see in the red zone.
As i said, QB is the least of worries in the red zone
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 4:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Completely disagree here.
QB is the most important factor in the red zone. Whether or not your QB can reliably throw touch passes is a huge indicator of success inside the 20. Moore can throw those passes. Marshall just didn’t hang on to the ball on Sunday. Had he, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
the throws
it isn’t just about being able to make the throws. it is also about knowing what throws to make. it is because that the defense has less ground to cover that the QB is the most important part of the Redzone offense.
a QB has to make decisions faster in the Redzone then at any other spot on the field. not only that, but has more factors to consider with the limited space.
elite QBs excel in the Redzone, they don’t just do OK.
i've been waiting for this moment all my life...but it's not quite right.
by small balls on Dec 20, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Where's all the Bush doubters now...
There were a lot of them early on, when Sparano wasn’t using him correctly and wasn’t giving him the ball. Not hearing them now huh?
Haters gon' hate...
A lot of the "doubters" were people saying he was being used wrong.
Which he was.
More of Moore in 2012!
'Phins phor Liphe!
This was my argument at the beginning of the season, so yeah…I was 1 of the Bush doubters because they used him in an ineffective manner.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Dec 19, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
NO...
Not talking about you guys. I agree with that. I’m talking about the people who just didn’t believe he could do it period.
Haters gon' hate...
i didnt believe he could do it.
But for me, it was more of any injury concern than a generall lack of ability. I am very pleasantly pleased with our bush. It has grown in nice.
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 20, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
NO...
Not talking about you guys. I agree with that. I’m talking about the people who just didn’t believe he could do it period.
Haters gon' hate...
I see
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I see
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
Who are these guys you speak of? Jets fans?
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
Im am fully enjoying the win.
I love to win, its the goal every week. Analysis doesnt mean we aren’t relieved and elated to win. I cant speak for anyone but I assume that fans like Finhead and Dolphin4lyfe and sdelinois are just as relieved and happy as I am.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
You're soo excited, you spell incorrectly.... lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
This is a blog man, not an ROI!
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
LOL! The trick to ROI's is to revise them... twice. Then resubmit the original and they go through.
I know you’ve done it….!
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I invoke my rights to remain silent...
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
Tell this to some agent you don't particularly like:
“Hey, ever seen an asshole wraped in plastic?” Wait for him to say no.
Then say, “take a look at your creds.”
lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
LOL
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
I was, but if you ridicule me for spelling glad "gald" when typing too fast
you should make sure to spell correctly yourself. Like the word “soo” that is spelled so Alpha lol.
Yes I understand the emphasis, just saying.
2008 AFC EAST Champions.
this is all we have left
We have no hopes of playoffs. All we have is next year.
The next two games will define Matt Moore's role
If we lose both, then I think everyone here can agree, we get a first round QB next year, and that QB starts sooner rather than later, with Matt Moore almost certainly being a backup by week 8.
If we win one but lose the other (most likely beating the Jets and losing the Pats), we still get a first round QB, and possibly have the rookie QB sit the first year just to develop.
If we win both, that means Matt Moore will have swept the Bills, split the series with the Jets (who he was forced to play almost immediately after becoming Miami’s starter with almost no practice reps during the shortened offseason), and will have beaten the Patriots (who will be playing for home field advantage – meaning they will have been playing at full effort).
In that case, I still say draft a first round QB, both as insurance against Matt Moore reverting to his performances as a second year starter at Carolina and also insurance against injury (we seem to lose our starting QB every year…)….but I think we’d all feel optimistic about Matt Moore in that scenario.
Just remember
If you want to see the Dolphins contend for the AFC East title, you’re hoping for Matt Moore to be the near term answer.
No rookie QB (Luck, Barkley, RGIII, etc.) is going to outduel Tom Brady or outsmart a Rex Ryan defense his first year. Putting all your faith in a rookie QB and dismissing Matt Moore is saying you don’t expect us to contend for the AFC East or a Wildcard spot for the next 2 years, since the AFC North has three teams (BAL/PIT/CIN) that look like they’ll be fighting for one or both wild card spots in the immediate future, so there’s no path to the playoffs without at least beating the Jets.
There is no reason to think that a rookie can't come in and win
Big Ben, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, John Elway, Bernie Kosar and even Sanchez went to the playoffs their rookie season.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Dec 19, 2011 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
why is it one or the other
You draft the QB and let him sit on the bench until he out shines Moore. Maybe that’s week 1 maybe thats year 2. Maybe it never happens.
ill agree with most of this but...
Brandon Marshall is not the most expensive decoy in the nfl, yes he has some drop issues but he is having a really good year. 2nd in the afc in receptions for receivers, 4th in afc for yards as receivers, in my eyes he deserves a spot in the pro bowl this year i think. Can he improve? most deff, but giving how our team has used him and how little he gets targeted he has done very well aside from some key drops. give him a great qb and he is a top 2-3 receiver in the nfl.
What am i going to do today? Same thing i try to do everyday! Try to take over the world!!!
I like Marshall
But he needs to up his game. granted it’s hard to do that when we have 10 completions in a game.
He's had the dropsies ever since his hands got cut...
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
I thought he took one to the gut?
"Theyas no fawking qwatahback!"-Anonymous Patriots fan at seeing the Wildcat formation for the first time.
I also support Occupy Joe Robbie
by texascowpunk on Dec 19, 2011 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
If he did it was superficial, and I'm thinking the hands were defense type.
Maybe he wears a colostomy bag that hinders his catching ability…. lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
i thought you meant that his hands went to the gym and got cut...
like stronger and more defined.
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 20, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Somehow, this reference seemed appropriate for you....
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
lol
a wise man once said..."My cats breath smells like cat food"
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Go Dolphins and beat those Bills!
by Phinphinatic on Dec 20, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
he is also a fourth rounder. sure he is elite now, but his rookie campaign and the way he plays now
Is a testament how hard he works.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Dec 19, 2011 5:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i hope he fixes his drop issues for next year
like sean smith last year if marshall caught half the balls he dropped it would be a no brainer he would be a pro bowler, especially since he’s dropped like 6-8 easy td catches.
What am i going to do today? Same thing i try to do everyday! Try to take over the world!!!
how to beat New England
When Long comes back take Jerry and move him to RT. Put Colombo at ticket gate because he’s good for letting people right through.
Paint a crustation on his hellmett, ok an emageanary-one!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate! Have you touched & preened your beaver-pelt yet!
by wild zion beaver on Dec 20, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Matt Moore
I am in agreement with many comments above – IMHO MM is looking like a great QB to me – arm strength and his accuracy improve with every game – he is starting QB material – yes it would be nice to see him mount a 4th qt comeback – not saying we shouldn’t choose a QB as first draft pick but give MM the chance to compete with whom ever they choose – hopefully RGIII – just saying the guy has shown me a lot in past 6 or so games and I like it.
please explain to these guys
that it’s not one or the other. I would love for MM to become the next Breese and we have Rivers on the roster too.
Exactly.
That’s the best case scenario.
- Attempting to debate with a person who has abandoned reason is like giving medicine to the dead.
- Defeat isn't bitter if you don't swallow it.
Contributing Writer to the The Phinsider
To keep things in perspective, remember the perfect season( yeah i know, living in the past)
But it wasn’t griese that got us there( he broke his leg early in the season) it was earl morrall…… Earl frickin’ Morrall, he got us there and then griese stepped back in at the end and got all the glory. Morrall wasn’t elite, more a blue collar tough old bastard, but he was given the tools to get the job done. Moore shows promise, and should be given a shot next year, move up and get a QB to sit behind him and learn (which is gonna happen anyway) and if Moore blows chunks next year , you have a backup plan, but if Moore lights it up next year, will some on here still want him gone? Give Moore a few more pieces and he might surprise us all. In truth, I don’t care if it’s Moore or RGII, or Barkley , as long as one of them brings the wins back to the fins !
founding member of the dolphins really old bastards fan club GO PHINS... TO THE GRAVE BABY!
daytona fan is smart
Shula had Unitas abs Morrall in Baltimore and Morrall was an excellent back up and had a good career….Shula brought Morrall in to back up Griese ANS WHEN bOB WENT DOWN eARL DIDN’T MISS A BEAT mORRALL STRUGGLED AGAINST pITTSBURGH IN THE afc CXHAMPIONSHIP GAME AND gRIESE CAME IN TO PULL OUT THE VICTORY…..ALSO WHEN WE HAD WOODLEY AND strock…..pardon the caps lock we almost won another super bowl except we couldn’t stop runner John Riggins….so having two good QB’s on a team can’t be a bad thing as long as they are used properly….Rodgers sat behind Favre and look where he is now….Marino was a different breed but even with Shula and Marino no running game and mediocre defense was our doomsady…..I say keep moore and draft a first round QB and let the rookie learn behind Moore unless Moore falls apart…
lol @ Matt Moore hype
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
Vice Grand Poobah of the RGIII Fleet
Occupy Joe Robbie
by Little Nicky 21 on Dec 19, 2011 11:10 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
haha
Founder and creator of the "DT33" nickname.
John "Marshmallow" Jerry is a bum.
Chief Resident of the Barkley Bandwagon of 2012.
"I make onions cry"--Tom Brandstater.
fogetaboutit.... lol
A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke.
- Groucho Marx
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. -H.L. Mencken.
"Never miss an opportunity to make others happy, even if you have to leave them alone in order to do it."
"The world is divided into two kinds of people: those who have tattoos, and those who are afraid of people with tattoos."
heh
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
Miss the misery.
Need a reason for a change.
Need a reason to explain.
So turn it on again.
Don't change your mind.
You're wasting light.
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