The Ireland Draft Myth
by ct1361 on Oct 20, 2011 8:38 AM EDT
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Sparano is gone as Head Coach. It is just of matter of time now. Any Head Coach in any profession with his recent record knows his days are numbered. His record includes:
· Losing his last 8 starts or half a season (3 at the end of last year and all 5 to begin this year). This is the equivalent of being 0-41 in the NBA or 0-81 in MLB.
· Winning 1 of his last 12 Home Games. This is the equivalent of 5 wins in your last 61 home games in the NBA and 10 wins in your last 121 home games in MLB.
No coach survives this. And no coach should survive this.
But we are constantly debating whether Jeff Ireland should remain. After the Jets game on Monday night, I have come to my conclusion on whether the Dolphins should retain Ireland at the end of the year. And let’s just say, it doesn’t look good for him, IMO.
One of the constant talking points by the MNF crew in regarding the Dolphins was that the Dolphins playmakers need to make more plays. They kept saying that guys like Cameron Wake, Karlos Dansby, Kevin Burnett, Brandon Marshall, and Reggie Bush need to make a big play. What do all of these guys have in common? (Here is a hint: Look at the title of the post.)
When talking about the playmakers on the Dolphins, not once, in my recollection, did the announcers mention any Jeff Ireland draft picks. The only mention was of Vontae Davis being a good cover corner, Sean Smith not being able to catch an INT, and Daniel Thomas averages 4.9 yds / carry (even though his long carry of the year is 15 yds).
Here is a link to all of the Dolphins draft picks in team history.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2700&type=team
I want someone, somewhere, to point to one player on that list from Ireland’s drafts that made a positive, impactful play against the Jets on Monday Night? I can’t.
And that’s the biggest problem with the Miami Dolphins during Jeff Ireland’s tenure as GM. None of his draft picks have a consistent impact on each and every game. None of his draft picks require an opposing coach to specifically game play for any drafted player.
Who do opposing offensive coordinators game plan for against the Dolphins defense? Wake and Dansby, both FA’s. Who do opposing defensive coordinators game plan for against the Dolphins offense? Marshall and Bush, neither drafted.
The complete lack of drafting a playmaker in any phase of the game in 4 drafts is reason enough for Ireland to be gone at the end of the year, IMO.
Update: From David Hyde's column talking about a tweet from Jimmy Johnson: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-hyde-miami-dolphins-1020-20111019,0,3028255.column
Q: "What do the Dolphins need to right this train?"
A: "Get better players."
Who is responsible for getting those players? Jeff Ireland.
This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.
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questionable call
I understand where your coming from but I also feel like parcells had him on a leash throughout his entire time he was with his so the last draft would be his first one without parcells which is still taking shape with pouncey being an obvious lock and thomas looking like he will be joining him then you have gates who I feel would be good if we had a QB I cant really recall any other picks (probably because I’m not mentally awake yet) and it cant get much worse next year (hopefully) I mean we’ll have a top 3 pick if not #1 id keep him around another year see what he does
"You can do more, you can always do more." - Dan Marino
I think the lack of a QB kills that last draft though
QB needy team doesn’t take a QB anywhere in the draft even when Mallett was bascially gift wrapped for us dropping out of the first round and even the second and we still don’t pick him up? And then FA we pick up Matt Moore? Thats a fail regardless of whether Henne had been able to turn it around. We also needed a TE to compliment Fasano, and nothing there either. Two big areas of need and he just doesn’t address them.
I am not comfortable with him going forward myself. The on field performance is Sparano, team may not be Super Bowl contender but it shouldn’t be 0-5 either, but Ireland hasn’t helped hm much, so both should go
by LordBishop34 on Oct 20, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Look at the QBs in this draft. Now do you understand why we went with Pouncey to anchor the O-Line for years instead of one of those QBs.
Ireland made the right call last season. Yeah, it wasn’t the sexy pick but it was the right pick for this franchise. Luck, Jones, Barkley and now Griffin are superior to every one of those QB we could have drafted last year (Newton being not an option). This year we will be able to pick up a franchise QB, another linemen or two and actually have a solid offense. The defense will need some work but they didn’t just go from top 6 to bottom 6 because they got a year older or other teams started scheming for us. They have looked off, out of shape, and mentally out of it all year long.
Jimmy Wilson is also looking like a steal in round 7. Gates has the potential to be a world beater in the coming years and he was a 4th rounder. Ireland has been handcuffed by Parcells and then by the loss of 2 second round selections for an underperforming prima donna (Marshall) which might not have been his choice but he got it done for less than a first round choice which EVERYONE said was a good job. I say give Ireland 1 full 7 round draft to work with and see what he produces.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The QBs in this next draft are better however
15 was too high for Pouncey, at aposition we discovered Incognito could play well and he is only 28. As for QB if you didn’t want to spend a HIgh pick on a QB I guess that is fine, but Mallett dropped so far he might as well been given away for free. I would rather have Mallett and his potential on this team then Matt Moore or Devlin and it would not mean we couldn’t pick Luck if available, after all Carolina did just that with Cam Newton. Henne had not played well enough not to do more at the QB position then they did this last season. That is on Ireland.
I am not saying he is a total wash as a GM but for me the QB issue is a biggie.
by LordBishop34 on Oct 20, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The QB issue won't be a biggie after this draft. If you moved Incognito to center, who do you put at guard? Supposedly we couldn't trade back before we selected Pouncey so we took him.
15 was too high for Pouncey but you can only do so much to control that. The first option is don’t get stuck with the #15 pick. Washington traded back to 16 to get who they wanted so what a surprise that nobody was aching to jump up to the middle of the first round.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ireland should have drafted Kaepernick
In the second round when he had the chance – not Mallett. Instead, he goes and gets a completely replaceable player in Daniel Thomas.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
And why
Do we want a Parcells hand picked protege here even though Ireland has had only 1 draft to himself. Parcells was a near disaster so why exactly should we feel comfortable with Parcell’s lite (similar philosophies) manning the ship? Why should we take a chance to find out? Get rid of Ireland and Sparano and chart a new course. Besides, Ireland was front-and-center in those last 5 draft rooms even if he didnt have the final call.
In retrospect, Mike Pouncey was an ok pick at 15. But the fact that we’re praising Jimmy Wilson as the next big Ireland success is sad. While I recognize any 7th round selection making the team is a good pick, the man has 7 tackles, 1 INT and 3 PD as a 25 year old rookie. Let’s not get carried away here.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
I'll be totally okay with Ireland getting canned, but there's no real point in questioning the Pouncey selection
He already looks like a Pro Bowl-caliber center, and is technically ahead of where Maurkice was at this time last season. And Mike Pouncey is doing this on a crappy line that belongs to an 0-5 team. Dude is a stud, and will anchor a position that has absolutely killed us throughout the 2000s.
I totally agree with FinReaper: if Ireland takes a QB last season, everyone here is bitching about how we should’ve waited for the 2012 quarterback class. Instead, he used the No.15 pick on a center (which I’ll admit is on the high side for that position) who has been ridiculously good for us thus far. Would you rather have Kaepernick getting pummeled right now, or have Pouncey going to work on the homes each week (Pulp Fiction reference) while Andrew Luck is in sight?
Our next QB is going to be extremely thankful we made the Pouncey pick.
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
by kmb8488 on Oct 20, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Incog isn't half the center Pouncey is
Good luck finding a center with the combination of technique, speed and strength Pouncey has. Even my Cowboys-fan friend thought Pouncey looked unbelievable on Monday night. “Jesus, that guy gets to the second level in a hurry.”
Either way, Ireland is probably getting tossed, and that’s cool. I doubt the next regime is going to have a problem with inheriting Jake Long and Mike Pouncey, so it’s all good.
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
by kmb8488 on Oct 20, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Here is my problem with the Pouncey pick
Why take one guy and create two holes. Pouncey may be a top 10 center now. The better pick was to move back with Pitt or NYG and take a right tackle. Nate Soldier was the guy in my book. Incog is playing out of position at LG. Incog up until the draft was talking about how much he wanted to play center. The angry guy was happy to finally play a position that fit his skill set. Even if you pick Pouncey in my book he is a Top 5 LG. This has been my opinion for a while. Funny thing is Keith Sims said the almost exact same thing. Ireland wants to re-invent the wheel to prove he is right. Same with the Odrick pick.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
by FinFanFromCA on Oct 20, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
That only works if NYG or Pitt wanted to trade. Also only if Solder is still available.
Seeing as how NYG selected a CB and passed on two very respected Tackles in Anthony Castonzo and Gabe Carimi I think we can rule them out.
Pitt took DE Cameron Heyward instead of Tackle Derek Sherrod or C Stefen Wisniewski so I doubt they would have given up anything to jump to #15 from #31.
The bigger issue there is tha Nate Solder was taken by NE at #17 so your whole idea is invalidated since had we traded down with either NYG or Pitt we couldn’t have gotten Solder. OT are much easier to find in the draft than Centers because there are so many of them and because we need a RT (Thanks to having Long) and most college LTs can play RT in the NFL. There is also usually a greater availability of guards than centers.Iin 2011 for example, 2 centers were drafted in the first 4 rounds versus 6 guards.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Both teams were rumored to covet Pouncey.
An if you stick at 15 you take Soldier and move Incog to center
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
by FinFanFromCA on Oct 20, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that would have been a better option. However, both may have been rumored to want Pouncey but it's not like made the pick as soon as we got put on the clock. No deal was made doesn't mean one wasn't attempted.
Like I said though, Centers are harder to come by than Right Tackles are so it was a judgement call and I personally think it was the right one. Both Solder and Pouncey are going to be rare talents when all is said and done.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Pouncey. Don't get me wrong. Like you and others I see 2012 as the year to go all in for a QB
My main problem with the pick? We put Pouncey at Center. He’s top 10 at that position thats great. Put Incog at Center and he is Top 15. You then can put Pouncey at LG. We improved the position of Center, but, the unit as a whole got worse. An people can say this was TS call. Maybe or Maybe not? Its like trying to figure out who is to blame for stuff that most people see as crazy. IMO. Ireland and TS need to go.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
by FinFanFromCA on Oct 20, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
TS or Ireland?
I say can them both. If it were only as easy as this video to figure out who to blame. LOL
http://videosift.com/video/Detective-game-Which-dog-got-into-the-trash
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
by FinFanFromCA on Oct 20, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If Ireland had the foresight to draft Pouncey with the thought of sucking this year and drafting a QB (Luck) next year, he's then my GM forever! :)
If Ireland was on the “Suck For Luck” bandwagon in April, he is good. LOL.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
I saw it. Well, I saw drafting a QB next year (Likely Jones) if Henne failed this year or keeping Henne if he succeeded and drafting a later round QB next year to serve as a backup while building up the O-line.
Now, I am just a fan so surely the guy who’s job it is might have seen it too. No, I do not want us to suck for Luck but I won’t cry if we are drafting first (Just as long as we aren’t 0-16).
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
lol. I think we all knew the 2012 class was far better than the 2011 group
I just thought last year’s group was insanely overrated (Blaine Gabbert wasn’t even a Top 32 prospect until January). I would take Luck, Jones, Griffin III and Barkley over everyone from 2011 not named Cam Newton.
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
by kmb8488 on Oct 20, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Either way, Ireland did us a favor (regardless of whether or not he meant to)
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
Some fans saw it, but for an actual GM of an NFL team to do this would be unbelieveable to me.
I am the furthest thing from a conspiracy theorist. Oswald acted alone. A weather balloon crashed at Roswell.
But I do believe in conspiracies in Sports. I believe that their are back room agreements, that refs are told to look the other way, etc.
I wonder if Ross and Ireland hatched this whole plan up on the flight back from Northern California? Totally suck this year, to get a QB next year? I wonder if Ireland and Ross don’t have some agreement in place?
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Or maybe they saw fit to hedge their bets on Henne and figured they would just draft Jones if Henne failed to break through??
It is hardly a conspiracy theory or even the slightest bit far fetched to think a GM wouldn’t spend a pick on a QB that wasn’t gonna be ready to play before 2012 when he could just draft an NFL-ready QB in the 2012 draft. In either event you start a drafted QB in 2012. None of the QBs from 2011 would have gotten a big jump on the 2012 guys due to the lockout anyway.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure this out if you look at all of the angles. Also, Ross has dealt very personally with Ireland and trusts him so is it really so far fetched that he would be on board with giving Henne one more year and then taking a first rounder in 2012 after having improved the O-line’s middle?
Remember that our O-line was atrocious in the middle with 1 average player (Incognito) amongst are 3 interiorl linemen. Now we have 1 good (Potentially great) Center and 1 average (To slightly below average) guard in Incognito. Unfortunaetly our right side SUCKS and needs addressing. Care to place an over/under on the round we draft a RT?
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
It's an awfully expensive hedge.
It is going to cost Ross around $20M ($10M for the next 2 years) to pay the coaching contracts of Sparano and his staff should they all be let go after this year. Then Ross will have to pay the new staff probably a lot more than the old one.
All of that plus with revenue falling through the floor in ticket sales and everything else? I don’t know if an owner would go for any of that.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
The hedge had nothing to do with Sparano. No one said anything about hedging bets on Sparano.
The hedging of bets was on Henne AFTER Harbaugh signed with San Fran. Ross ended up on the hook for the staff costs after he re-signed Sparano which had nothing to do with Ireland or Sparano. Ross gets to eat those contracts because he screwed the pooch with the Harbaugh situation.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
1 INT in 5 games as a 25 year old rookie is better than Sean Smith's 1 INT in 36 games by 24.
Wilson also has the same number of passes defensed as Smith does this year despite far less playing time.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kaepernick?? Zuesmith did you mean somebody else?
Surely, you didn’t mean the guy that has a competent coach in San Francisco and still can’t beat out ALEX SMITH?!?! Surely not that guy?!?!?
The same guy that was drafted at #36 (4 picks into round 2)? Ireland had no round two pick until he traded up to #62 and drafted Thomas. I can understand some of the criticism of Ireland but to suggest he should’ve drafted a player that was taken 26 picks earlier instead of a RB averaging 4.4 yds/carry is absurd.
Then again, maybe you meant somebody else or were thinking he should’ve traded up into the top of the round (Which would’ve been far too costly).
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ummm
Have you seen Alex Smith’s numbers this year? He’s succeeding by not screwing up. Everyone knew Kap was a bit of a project, but I;d much rather have attempted for him that Daniel Thomas. Again, this team goes conservative and never gets anywhere because of it while Kap could be a good starting QB in a year or 2,.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Why would you rather have Kaeprnick as a project on the bench and maybe starting in a year or two when you could have a RB now and a new QB starting next year anyway?
What you see as more of the same conservative philosophy is more of a calculated weighing of draft prospects. There is nobody that thinks Kaepernick will be ready to start in the NFL before Jones is. Nobody thought that this past year and nobody is going to think that next year.
The problem with last year’s QB class was that none were considered NFL ready except for Newton (He had his own question marks) whereas Luck, Jones, and Barkley were considered immediate starters for the 2012 season.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, first of all
No one expected the Dolphins to suck this badly. And no one could have prognosticated we would be in the running for Jones or Luck before the draft occurred. I’m reserving judgement on Barkley.
And I dont agree with your statement:
There is nobody that thinks Kaepernick will be ready to start in the NFL before Jones is
I think the timing between who is ready first could be pretty close. Kap already has a year studying and learning under a great coach. Harbaugh has been known to develop good QB’s. I think it’s entirely possible Kap would be ready to start in 2012.
Again, it comes down to the conversation of taking a good calculated risk vs. picking safety/conversatively. Daniel Thomas is the latter. He doesn’t give this team anything that 15 or 20 teams already have. There’s little upside there unlike Kap. We’re talking about a QB with comparable to slightly better measurables than Cam Newton with a stellar attitude and intelligence. it’s not Pat White we’re talking about here. The question becomes: Can he transition to reading NFL defenses? There’s huge upside there unlike Daniel Thomas, who is completely replaceable and average.
When is management going to take a smart,bold risk on upside?
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
15 or 20 teams have a Daniel Thomas? Don't think so. You are really shortsighting Thomas' skills.
I will grant you that it is easy to do since he has only played in 3 games but he has been a bruiser behind a crappy O-Line. Ireland knew he wasn’t gonna be able to retain either of his starting running backs so he drafted one and worked his way back into round 2 to do it. You are acting like drafting Kaepernick to hold a clipboard and some 3rd or later round RB to be our starter was the calculated risk. You’re right. The difference isn’t in what is a calculated risk. The difference is in whether you like the answer after doing the math. Ireland didn’t and I certainly agree with the assessment.
You also say Thomas is average after a mere 12 quarters worth of study that included 2 100 yard games (Okay 95 & 107). In his last 2 seasons (25 games) with us Ronnie Brown also had 2 such games. Ricky Williams had 5 games of 95 yards or better in the last 2 seasons (32 games). Niether Brown nor Ricky averaged 4.4 yards per carry. Thomas would therefore be an upgrade which is what Ireland was looking for. Maybe he falters as the season goes on but maybe grade him on an entire season before ruling him a bad pick (especially against a guy who hasn’t played yet).
Also if Kaepernick is ready in 2012 and Jones is ready in 2012 then it is a wash. The only way Kaepernick is starting ahead of Jones is if he starts this year (Barring injury of course).
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Again
No one could have foreseen us having a chance at Jones or Luck before this season. It’s only because Ireland has been doing such a bad job that our record has put us in position for those guys.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Again, (First time for you but I mentioned it several times to CT)
We had Henne as our starter this year and either he was going to succeed and we wouldn’t need to draft Jones or he would have failed and we would likely be able to draft Jones. You suggest that no one could have foreseen this outcome but I called it months ago. If I can figure it out, why are you so sure that Ireland didn’t? I wrote the following back in February. You can read the entire post here. This is from the second paragraph regarding the QB position.
This will not be addressed in the draft here for two reasons, #1 Getting a 3rd string QB isn’t hard and we will re-sign CP10 before or after it becomes obvious that no one else will and #2 The 2011 QB class is one of the weakest classes in years. Technically a third reason is that next year’s class is far superior to this years and if a QB is drafted next season (RE: Henne bombs out worse than Matt Leinart) he will need a stacked team to step into to ease the transition.I had several replies within fanposts that mentioned specifically that we would and should stick with Henne for 2011 and if he sucked out pick up a QB in 2012 (My pick was then stated to be Jones since we had no shot at Luck-guess I was wrong there).For instance this reply to west coast fin fan about halfway down in the comments:
It doesn’t even have to be Luck next year since there are several 1st round caliber QBs in next years draft that are all proven winners with better than 60% completion percentages. The main idea is put a great team together and then put a top prospect under center. I’ve looked at our teams over the past 3 seasons and it is sad how obvious it is that replacing Henne won’t get us to any better than 9-7. Everyone keeps saying we have to replace Henne, draft Newton, draft Mallett, draft anybody but get Henne out of there. However, has anyone but me noticed that in the Henne’s first 20 starts the Dolphins went 11-9 while scoring 421 points but in the first 20 starts with Pennington, the Dolphins went 11-9 while scoring 390 points? Or that the win % of their opponents in those 20 starts was virtually identical (.516 for Penny and .525 for Henne)?As for us being bad enough to have a shot at Jones I further posted this comment in reply to the suggestion that we were a QB and competent coach away from being a contender:
We needed an MVP performance from Pennington coupled with a weak ass schedule and a backup Patriots QB just to win a Tie-breaker division title. Since then, our O-line has been downgraded significantly and our RBs are now going to be 3 years older, and the wildcat has been schemed for. If you really believe we are just a QB and a good set of coaches on offense away, then you are fooling yourself. Especially since we have replaced the coaches with inexperiencedhacksunproven coaches and a questionable offensive coordinator.
I also mentioned taking Pouncey and a speedy WR (Gates is mentioned by name along with Jernigan and Cecil Shorts III and that we wouldn’t have a pick in the top 21 of round 2 barring Ireland pulling off a miracle.
As for Kaepernick, does this sound familiar (its the second to last of the post’s comments)
I’m drafting Kaepernick in the second For his big upside at QB or TE if he doesn’t cut it there. He won’t do much for this upcoming season, but there could be a lockout anyway and his tools are fantastic.Sounds like you didn’t expect anything from him before 2012 then so I can’t believe you expect so much more from him in 2012 now. Again, ALL of this was posted 2 months BEFORE the draft so yes there were people who saw us having a shot at Jones. I readily admit I had no idea we would be THIS bad but I also figured that Henne was going to make some great strides this year (Which he was doing before the injury in spite of the epic sucktitude of his O-line and Marshall) and we wouldn’t need to draft a franchise QB. I’m not trying to toot my own horn but I am trying to show just how predictable our shot at drafting Jones was even way back at the beginning of the 2011.
by zeusmith on Feb 20, 2011 3:40 PM EST
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 21, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh geez
Where do I start:
We had Henne as our starter this year and either he was going to succeed and we wouldn’t need to draft Jones or he would have failed and we would likely be able to draft Jones.
First of all, you didnt have the slightest idea before the draft whether we could draft Jones. None. Even if Henne had failed, like he did the previous year, we still drafted 18th overall, which was unlikely to nab Jones. And that assumes Jones is a franchise QB in that spread offense. Just because you ‘figured’ it out doesnt mean it wasnt just a lucky guess. We could have easily picked 18th overall again despite an ineffective Henne and still had no franchise QB in 2012.
Sounds like you didn’t expect anything from him before 2012 then so I can’t believe you expect so much more from him in 2012 now. Again, ALL of this was posted 2 months BEFORE the draft so yes there were people who saw us having a shot at Jones.
Yeah, I didnt expect much from Kap until 2012. Not many people did. People understood he needed to transition to the pro game. And again, just because YOU proclaimed Jones to be available to us in the next draft doesnt necessarily make it so. I mean, before the 2011 draft, most projected Jones as a mid first round pick. But he’s probably played himself into the Top 8 and you or anyone else couldnt have forseen the Dolphins picking that high. In other words, passing on a 2011 Qb was a huge gamble – one that looks like it will pay off. But it was still a very iffy gamble.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Right, I just assumed everything.
Even if Henne had failed, like he did the previous year, we still drafted 18th overall
We drafted 15th overall and the schedule wasn’t appreciably harder than the previous year. We would be starting a rookie running back instead of two solid veterans, our defense was now a year older (meaning they weren’t gonna single-handedly win a bunch of games for us like Minn and NYJ last year). Couple that with the same level of play from your QB and you likely lose 1-2 games more dropping us to 6-10 or 5-11. If we finished with 5 wins it would likely mean a top 5 pick. and a 6 win could be anywhere from top 5 to top 15 so the odds were pretty good there. Also of note is that at least 4 team wouldn’t be looking to draft a QB this year (Carolina, Tennessee, Jacksonville and Minnesota) unless they could get Luck. Given that, a top 10 pick all but meant Jones was a sure thing back then and that really hasn’t changed all that much in the last 8 months.
And that assumes Jones is a franchise QB in that spread offense.EVERY 1st round pick is assumed to be a franchise QB! Otherwise, they wouldn’t get drafted so high. As for you point in Jones collegiate offense, what QB in the 2011 class played in a more NFL-Ready offense? Gabbert’s biggest complaint was the offensive scheme as Mizzou. How about Kaepernick and Nevad’s “Pistol” spread? Locker was seen so favorably because Washington utilised a pro-style offense but he was gone @ #8 to the Titans. Dalton wasn’t in a pro-style offense either but he has adjusted quite well in Cincy from his spread days. Bradford has done quite well in his transition as well and he ran the same offense Jones does.
I mean, before the 2011 draft, most projected Jones as a mid first round pick. But he’s probably played himself into the Top 8 and you or anyone else couldnt have forseen the Dolphins picking that high.Can’t argue with his playing himself to a higher pick. Of course the major reason for that is that many now have him having surpassed Barkley who was orignially rated second behind Luck. So even if we can’t get Jones, we can still get Barkley should he slide back to our pick. In other words, we would almost certainly have a better QB available to us in next year’s draft regardless of who it was. At the time, it looked more likely to be Jones (I also preferred Jones to Barkley) so I listed Jones rather than Barkley.
Now take the 15 teams most likely to draft in the top 15. In other words, remove teams like Pittsburgh, GB, NE, NO, ATL, NYJ, Indy, SD, PHI, TB, Balt to name a few. That leaves us with leaves us with around 21 teams. Now eliminate those teams not likely to be looking for a QB in 2012 (Dallas, NYG, Rams, Houston, Cincy, Cleveland, KC, Denver, Det, Chi, Carolina-just draft Jimmy Clausen in 2010). That knocks us down to 10 teams (Which has since became 11 on account of Indy). Those remaining teams? Mia, Buff, Jax, Tenn, Oak, Was, Minn, San Fran, Sea, Ariz.Of those teams, 5 were picking in the top 10, and all but Oakland, Seattle and Washington were picking in the top 15 (Was at #16).
Presumably, anywhere from 3-5 of those teams were gonna draft QBs in round 1 (Likely Locker, Gabbert and Newton with potentially Ponder due to strong end of 2010 season as well as good senior bowl and Combine and Dalton & Kaepernick as tweeners). In the end Carolina surprised and took Newton #1 and 3 others joined him in round 1 with 2 others going at the start of round 2. This meant Carolina was out of the 2012 running unless it could get Luck. I had anticipated QB picks by Minnesota, Seattle, Jacksonville, & San Fran. Yes, I admit I only got 2 of those right but San Fran did pick up Kaepernick at the start of round 2 so it is closer to 3 out of 4. None of these teams were likely to draft a QB in 2012 (Save for Luck) after having invested such high picks in 2011 and likley not have seen significant playing time from their drafted QBs in 2011.
So I had 4 more of those remaining 10 teams off the QB train in 2012 BEFORE the draft which leaves 6 teams LIKELY looking for QBs and 3 BLUE CHIP talents available. This of course also assumed that somebody that didn’t draft a QB was gonna go after Kolb hard in Free Agency (You had to know there would be free agency and a 2011 season since too much money was on the table to walk away from). This now leaves 5 teams and 3 QBs. That leaves a 60% chance of getting one of the potential franchise QBs in 2012. You can call that a gamble but I call that a calculated risk. It wasn’t a given but it was pretty good odds.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 23, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Also found this evidence from February 6th in a reply to Jason_Scott_90 (His comment is the listed quote).
2.) If you can think of a reason not to go get one of the top QBs in the draft this year let me know…. They are first round QBs for a reason. We need to take a chance and hope we get something. If we don’t, we keep drafting 1st round QBs until we hit on one.
“Okay #1, they are first round QBs because virtually every position has a first round guy and QB is such an important position (It’s rare for a team to have a good to great QB and be picking in the top 10) that the top 3-6 QB prospects are labeled as first round guys. You can’t say this guys a first round QB so he is clearly a franchise guy without actually looking at the guy and evaluating him.
Reasons not to take a QB this year:
#1. We need to see if we actually need one. I know every Henne hater on here has already passed judgement on the guy but howsabout we give him a chance in a modern offense with a capable O-Line in front of him. Revamp the front 5 and then see what Henne can do. If Henne still sucks then you will have at least provided a solid line for our newly drafted QB in 2012 to play behind to ease his transition into the NFL.
#2. None of these QBs appear to be any better than Henne and the prospects from the 2012 class are infinitely better than 2011 so why draft a developmental guy this season who won’t start until next year (At the earliest) when we can just draft a starter next season that will now have a revamped and improved team to play behind?”
Sadly, we didn’t revamp the O-line except to get a great upgrade at center and make the right side immeasurably worse.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 21, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
None of these QBs appear to be any better than Henne and the prospects from the 2012 class are infinitely better than 2011 so why draft a developmental guy this season who won’t start until next year (At the earliest) when we can just draft a starter next season that will now have a revamped and improved team to play behind?"
This may be a minority opinion, but I don’t agree in the slightest that the 2012 QB draft will be “infinitely” better than 2011. I always believed the 2011 class was better than advertised; mainly that there was good talent but lack of polished talent. I said consistently before the draft that there would be at least 3 or 4 starting QB’s from this year Top 6 (Gabbert, Newton, Ponder, Kap, Dalton, Locker), and that prognostication looks good at the moment. Newton and Dalton mak2, and I expect 1 of Kap/Gabbert/Locker and Ponder will make 4. And this is before we throw Mallett in the mix.
If we do indeed end up with 4 starting QB’s out of this draft, it would be a very successfully QB draft indeed. You ususally don’t get more than 4 and in recent years, it’s been more like 2 or 3. So yes, I believe the pundits grossly underestimated the strength of the QB’s in this draft because there was lack of pro polish at the top.
Simply put, Henne is and never was the answer. Too bad it took us this long to find out.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
The key isn't starters. It is long-term starters.
4-7 starters out of this class is hardly impossible just like with 2011. The difference is that talent for talent, 2012 is way above the level of 2011. If you want to debate polished vs unpolished you may but EVERY QB from 2011 had inferior career stats (Games played, Comp. %, TD-INT ratio, team win %) accross the board compared to 2012 except for Newton who had only started one season. I know this because I had done a study utulizing an excell spreadsheet breaking down the QB stats and measuring them against set levels that have been proven over the last 20 years to predict successful, long-term starters with pretty good accuracy. of the QBs in 2011 there were 2 guys that met all of the criteria. Of the 2012 QBs, there were 4. This was the principle foundation of my prediction. Not the majority opinion.
As for Henne, he was a couple of uncontested dropped TDs from a 93+ rating which would have put him in the top 10. I would have much rather had that with Pouncey than any of the available QBs and a weaker O-Line.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 22, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
100 percent agree
we continue to trade away I draft pics 4 players that can’t make an impact. we havent been hot on draft day since jjj left. Shula was king of the draft. he looks like what new england looks like now.
ireland needs to go.
by JImbo111 on Oct 20, 2011 9:04 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
cmon man
you cant tell me that you weren’t psyched to get brandon marshall… Granted he has made all of us frustrated with his performance, but we were all stoked to get him.
"My cats breath smells like cat food" a wise man once said...
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
I will never "Suck for Luck" !
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
by Phinphinatic on Oct 20, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
once he gets a quality QB again, Marshall will be fine...
In Pat we Trust
"Sorry if everyone thought we were going to go 82-0" - Dwyane Wade
"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore." - Yogi Berra
Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Matt Moore. None of them made Marshall hold onto a ball or stay in bounds on a sure TD.
Marshall may improve but he has lost something somewhere and I don’t see him getting it back. It’s a real shame because of what he cost and the high hopes he carried with him but I don’t think he will ever haul in 100 catches for us.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
he has lost something because he plays on such a bad team with bad QBs...
When he had Cutler and Orton, he was one of the top WRs in the league. I believe if you give him someone like Luck or even Jones, he will become that player again. Plus, you do not want to trade him because he is the one quality target we have. We do not want a situation where we have a young signal caller and give him no weapons…
In Pat we Trust
"Sorry if everyone thought we were going to go 82-0" - Dwyane Wade
"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore." - Yogi Berra
Marshall has dropped a TD every game except @ NY and he stumbled out of bounds to screw up a TD in that one. That isn't on the QB.
Marshall has scored as many touchdowns as Henne scored on the ground. For an alpha receiver to be on even footing (TD-Wise) with a QB’s run TDs is almost inceivable. Factor in that Henne had 3 games and Marshall has had 5 and it becomes something out of a bad comedy.
I think (AND hope) that Marshall picks it up and gets back to what he was before coming here but I have serious doubts. Marshall is killing us right now and he will have to play better for his new QB next year or he will be a liability. We definitely need to get an upgrade at TE for the new QB (Preferably Dwayne Allen if he is still available in round 2).
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 21, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Marshall fustrates the hell out of me...
believe me (I have him on my fantasy team), he needs to get in the endzone. However, some of this can be attributed to QB play because Henne is terrible and has no touch in the redzone. I said some of the problems, not all, yes, he make bonehead plays that really piss me off as well. And I 110% agree we need another TE, and really, upgrades at most offensive positions. However, Marshall makes good QBs better. Dont you find it interesting that when Cutler and Orton had Marshall, they were considered much better QBs than they are right now? I simply have faith that with a QB upgrade and something to play for, Marshall will return to what he once was. Hey, it worked for Randy Moss right…
In Pat we Trust
"Sorry if everyone thought we were going to go 82-0" - Dwyane Wade
"A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore." - Yogi Berra
We just have to wait and hope for the best.
Side-note: You have him on your fantasy team? You poor, downtrodden bastard.
As for Henne’s terribleness and lack of touch, the dropped TDs against Houston and Cleveland were perfect passes that went untouched into Marshall’s hands and he dropped them both. That may be a confidence thing, it may be a mental thing, it may just be concentration. Whatever it is Marshall will have to sort it out himself as no QB can really do anything about it. Now a better QB might increase his total receptions (I think it will BTW) but the red zone efficiency won’t go up until Marshall fixes what ails him. Fingers crossed for next season.
Also, Orton was a better QB last year (First without Marshall) than he was two years ago (Last with Marshall) barely I admit but even Cutler was almost equal to Orton. The teams around Marshall did better but Denver did have Stokely, Gaffney, Eddie Royal, 2 TEs that caught 40+ passes and Brandon Lloyd to go with Marshall as well as an offensive philosophy that utilised these many weapons. I know conventional wisdom says otherwise, but Marshall didn’t elevate Orton or Cutler. When Marshall was traded, the production simply got spread out amongst the other receivers. The differential in the teams record had a lot more to do with the team’s front office turmoil than anything else and even then was no better than 8-8 which is hardly miles away from 7-9.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 21, 2011 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't Jimmy Wilson get mentioned?
I couldn’t hear that well as I was groaning so much.
That being said, I think he should go. Parcell’s brought him in because he believes in the Parcell’s ideology. That alone should set off alarm bells.
I never got a prize for doing what was expected of me.
Yes he was mentioned. He made a great tackle for loss on a play.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Time for a change
The “Parcells Way” is a failure in the modern NFL. Draft big guys, not playmakers.
The draft is, and always will be, hit or miss. This front office is so afraid of failure that they draft “safe” players in the early rounds. Jake Long? Awesome player. But SAFE. Odrick? Not the impact player you should be taking in the first round, even if he does develop.
Memo to the front office… it’s been TWENTY EIGHT years since you’ve picked a QB in the first round… and we all know how that worked out.
Ireland has had 1 draft. One.
Parcells had all the other since 2008. Ireland had 2011. So, in the 2011 draft, he took Pouncey, who is looking really good at center, Thomas, who is averaging 4.9 yards, running behind the worst offensive line ever, Gates, who is looking decent – needs to catch a few more balls, but so does every other receiver we have, Clay, who everyone has big hopes for, and led to Lousaka being released, and Jimmy Wilson, who is a beast.
Add in Frank Kearse, who is a developmental project at DT.
I want someone, somewhere, to point to one player on that list from Ireland’s drafts that made a positive, impactful play against the Jets on Monday Night? I can’t.
I’ll go with Wilson. That strip from behind on the punt return was awesome. The Dolphins didn’t get it back, but it was still a “positive, impactful play” on Monday night.
Sept. 26, 2010 - 2012/2013 Draft Kyle Padron Bandwagon
by Kevin Nogle on Oct 20, 2011 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
This is where we are as a fanbase. All we do anymore is make excuses for failures and wonder why failures continue with this team.
This is a perfect example of not holding people accountable:
Ireland has had 1 draft. One.
It is always someone else’s fault with the Dolphins Fanbase. It isn’t Henne’s fault, it’s the coaching, or the playcalling, or the OL. It isn’t Sparano’s fault, it is Ross’s because he tried to hire Harbaugh. It isn’t Ireland’s fault because he was just a puppet for Parcells. This is getting so old it is tiresome.
Someone please step up in this organization and be a man, for Christ Sakes. Admit that mistakes have been made and that you made them.
The fact that your example of a drafted player that made a positive impact on the Jets game is a 7th round draft pick speaks volumes if you ask me.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
by ct1361 on Oct 20, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe because ireland couldnt make the choices he might have wanted to
because parcells had all the power no one was going to overturn is decision he ran everything ireland is the only person that may get excused from this debacle of a season but I do agree that he’s got to stop bringing in cowboys that have been cut and get his own talent but the 2011 draft has ireland written all over it not parcells and its looking to turn out good (so far) I still think he shouldnt get another shot at a draft his way then lets see what we’re talking about
"You can do more, you can always do more." - Dan Marino
by Miamiboi84 on Oct 20, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
its not an excuse...
it is a fact… Thank you Mosul for pointing that out, I didn’t consider that…
"My cats breath smells like cat food" a wise man once said...
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
I will never "Suck for Luck" !
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
by Phinphinatic on Oct 20, 2011 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If this is true, Ross should fire Ireland immediately.
If this is true, then all Ireland has done for 3 years is get coffee for Parcells while Parcells makes all the decisions and making over a $1M a year. Pretty good gig if you can get it.
Ireland did all the scouting. He made the recommendations. He was in charge of the draft. Did Parcells have final say? Maybe. But Ireland did all the work and what has this work done for the Phins in 4 years.
How long are we going to blame Parcells? That is a dumb question. Because we as a fanbase, still blame: Jimmy Johnson, Dave Wanstadt, Nick Saban, Cam Cameron, Randy Mueller, etc. Parcells fits right in. So will Ireland if he stays around for a few more years.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
by ct1361 on Oct 20, 2011 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand what your saying
But in the end you can do all the scouting you want and put in your information but at the end of the day it was what parcells wanted and parcells scouted too its not like he totally missed all the pro days and scouting combines either I’m just saying we’ll never know who ireland may have wanted to go with if parcells hadnt been there the whole time and I think this last draft is proof that he doesnt go by parcells rules and hes gotten us at least 2 great guys from what ive seen so far out of the 6 he drafted maybe even 4 (depending on jimmy wilson & gates) id call that a pretty good draft all I’m saying is the man should have another draft with his name written all over it the same way parcells had his drafts with his name all over it before we go chopping off heads
"You can do more, you can always do more." - Dan Marino
by Miamiboi84 on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
^^THIS^^
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No
It was a poor draft compared to what other teams did. Jimmy Wilson has 7 tackles, 1 INT and 3 PD’s as a 25 year old rookie. Was it a good choice for the 7th round? Absolutely. But the fact Wilson gets talked about as much as he does typifies the medicore nature of this draft. Our record reflects this.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Not to mention we have amongst the worst secondaries in the NFL
To which Wilson is a part of. I’m not seeing the huge fascination with Wilson to be honest, although again, any 7th round pick to make the roster is a good pick. The fact is, Wilson would probably be on the practice squad on half the teams in the NFL.
We need much more evidence before we can call Jimmy Wilson a successful NFL player.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
If this is true, Ross should fire Ireland immediately.
If this is true, then all Ireland has done for 3 years is get coffee for Parcells while Parcells makes all the decisions and making over a $1M a year. Pretty good gig if you can get it.
Ireland did all the scouting. He made the recommendations. He was in charge of the draft. Did Parcells have final say? Maybe. But Ireland did all the work and what has this work done for the Phins in 4 years.
How long are we going to blame Parcells? That is a dumb question. Because we as a fanbase, still blame: Jimmy Johnson, Dave Wanstadt, Nick Saban, Cam Cameron, Randy Mueller, etc. Parcells fits right in. So will Ireland if he stays around for a few more years.
So true I had to frame it again.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Parcells set up the front office. Ireland just played by the role he was given. He then took on more responsibility when Parcells bolted.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
its an excuse
He was involved in the previous drafts even if he didn’t have final say he was part of the process, and this last one missed on critical areas. Even the best pick of the this last draft Pouncey was a reach another lineman, in many ways a first pick Parcells would have made and also not a critical need on the line. The one thing we figured out last year was Incognito could play center well and was actually a better position for him then guard, but we picked a center, at 15, anyways didn’t take a QB anywhere didn’t address TE.
by LordBishop34 on Oct 20, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Center wasnt a need
but it definitely helped out our line they didnt address QB because they still believed in henne to try and get the job done after this season its pretty obvious they will be looking at QB’s with a handful of good ones coming out Fasano can get the job done at TE but I do agree with you a new TE would be nice to have but i wouldnt call it a necessity like at QB or RT….I would say TE is probably 3rd or 4th on the list of upgrades to do over the offseason in my opinion
"You can do more, you can always do more." - Dan Marino
Even believing in Henne
You have to deal with the reality is he was a bad qb the previous two years, you have to think ahead. Brees is used alot when discussing Henne. The Chargers selected Rivers because Brees hadn’t yet showed he was the man. They weren’t done with him yet but they had to deal with the fact that Brees hadn’t locked down the job yet. Nothing in the previous years said Henne was going to turn into the man this season, QB should have been a target imo. TE has been a need, not to replace Fasano but to compliment him, nothing was done with that at all. We picked a position we didn’t need as our top pick. Pouncey is good, but not top 15 good and not really need for this team.
I just don’t see Ireland as someone that should be saved.
by LordBishop34 on Oct 20, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree henne wasnt gonna be the guy
every fan in the world can see that but unfortunately its not about what we see if the boss has your back then thats what it is brees was always good in SD from what i recall yeah they went after rivers who is a great QB as well but look whos got the ring now…but i respect your comparison and it makes a lot of sense all in all Henne is going to be gone right along with sporano…now I’m not going to sit here and defend ireland like hes the best thing since sliced bread all I’m saying is that maybe he should have another offseason to himself with no one elses interference unless theres some amazing GM out there now thats ready to come into miami and get some work done for us
"You can do more, you can always do more." - Dan Marino
There is a flip side to this coin, CT
People who are always looking to blame someone. Someone is always to blame, that’s for sure. But it’s not always so simple as to say “Jeff Ireland F-ed up, time to move on”.
For example, in 2010, Dan Henning clearly held our offense back. Our defense was firing on all cylinders. I wonder what our defense would have ended up ranked had our offense not handicapped them the entire year.
On this subject, where is Ireland’s credit? You are very quick to blame him and put him out, but where is his credit for providing the necessary pieces for BOTH the offensive and defensive sides in 2010? Is it his fault that Dan Henning devised a gameplan that was both outdated and unsuited to the talent that we fielded?
Where is this front office’s credit for the 2008 season? By your same logic, Ireland should receive credit for Bill Parcell’s bringing in the personnel and staff responsible for the first division championship for the Dolphins since 2001?
You’re doing the exact same thing that every other Dolfan does. Blaming someone. You just want to blame more people and refuse to see the positive impact that Ireland has had on this organization. Whether it was Parcells or Ireland, and whether they were draft picks or free agents (it doesn’t really matter, what matters is they are successful), these have been successful pickups:
Jake Long
Davone Bess
Cameron Wake
Vontae Davis
Paul Soliai
Kendall Langford
Randy Starks
Brian Hartline
Chad Pennington
Brandon Marshall
Mike Pouncey
Jared Odrick
Jimmy Wilson
Daniel Thomas
Reshad Jones
Now, a few notes. Despite their criticism, Smith and Davis both grade out very well as corners. Both have been hurt tremendously by subpar safety play (which, admittedly, is on Ireland at this point). But Reshad Jones is playing out of position, at least at this point. Wilson looks like a huge steal. Odrick is already a gamechanger when he’s on the field. Hartline is blossoming into a solid number two receiver.
The area in which Ireland has been unsuccessful is at quarterback. But is that really his fault? Henne was Parcells choice, and all Ireland could do was give Henne the chance to grow. This past year was going to be Henne’s “put up or shut up” year. We all know how that ended up. And we have been informed now that it was Steven Ross who ordered the trade talks with Denver for Orton to be stopped. What was Ireland’s other choice at that point?
It’s obvious that this coming draft will be the year of the quarterback for Miami. What reasoning is there to call for Ireland’s head as well at this point? Lack of effort from the players? That’s on Sparano. And maybe on Ross for going after Harbaugh in the fashion he did.
But all i’ve seen from Ireland is multiple hits on UDFAs (Bess, Wake) multiple hits on draft picks (Langford, Hartline, Soliai, Pouncey) and a few misses (Turner, White). Sounds like a young GM who has just finished up his first draft class as a true GM.
by DolfanVince86 on Oct 20, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Smith and Davis are good CB's. But they don't make big plays.
This is essentially their 3rd year as starters. They should be better, IMO. Remember, Davis was selected instead of Clay Matthews. Who has had a bigger impact on their respective teams?
The point of the post is that Ireland has yet to draft an impact player in his 4 years. When the guys announcing the game list Miami’s impact players and not one of them is a draft choice from the last 4 years, that should tell you something about those drafts. If you don’t draft impact players, you overpay for them in trades (Marshall) and in FA (Bush, Dansby).
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
That's why I like debating with you CT
You’re very factual. I’ll address both your comments in this one. I think the point that is becoming uncovered (at least personally) is that while Ireland hasn’t necessarily been a huge FAIL at GM, he hasn’t done enough to cement his value to the team as well. For example, failing to really “hit” on a draft pick. Whether Parcells was in full command or not, you’re right, he hasn’t hit a home run yet.
Wake and Bess are his big contributions to this franchise. Bess goes against the Parcells mold, lacking in size. Wake, from what I understand, caught Ireland’s eye so he gets the credit there. Maybe this year’s draft class will be the one where he ultimately “hits” on a pick. It already seems like he may have, at least with D. Thomas, but Clyde Gates and Jimmy Wilson could turn out as studs as well.
As far as last year’s offensive struggles, and our defense’s lack of turnovers, once again I can’t blame Ireland in this respect. Ireland’s biggest mistake, when all is said and done, might have been when he asked Dez Bryant if his mother was a prostitute.
In no way am I saying that Ireland should be in charge of personnel in 2012. If he returns, it will be as GM under Carl Peterson. That’s the only way I see it happening. If Ross decides to retain Ireland and let him run the show, I think it’s a big mistake. We need either a big name coach, or a big name VP of Football Operations. If Ireland returns, it will be to manage the salary cap and handle the draft. I don’t blame him for poor player development.
by DolfanVince86 on Oct 20, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It already seems like he may have, at least with D. Thomas, but Clyde Gates and Jimmy Wilson
See, these are the type of comments I dont get. What leads you to believe any of those players will be "studs’ let alone average NFL players. What, Clyde Gates 8 receptions and numerous drops somehow intrigue you? Sure he’s blazing fast, but so is half the NFL at his position.
And what about Jimmy Wilson? 7 tackles and 1 INT as a 25 year old rookie somehow lead you to believe he’ll become a “stud”. I agree it’s a good 7th round pick, and he may become a servicable player, but the homerism on this site is something to behold. Same thing for Daniel Thomas, who is completely replaceable in the FA pool in any given year. His main advantage is he’s cheap for a few years.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Well
Jimmy Wilson was graded as a first round pick before he went to jail. He just has the look of an NFL playmaker.
Clyde Gates has premier speed and seems to be transitioning well to the NFL game.
Daniel Thomas has the size, explosion and field vision to be a strong NFL runningback. Who knows how far he’ll progress.
Either way, it’s just as easy to say they could turn out as studs as it is for you to completely write them off as average players.
by DolfanVince86 on Oct 21, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
At this point
We’d be thrilled if any of these guys became average players. There’s nothing to indicate any of them will be anything more than that… yet
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
That's a little bit negative, don't you think?
I would say that both Daniel Thomas and Jimmy Wilson have proven that they are, at the very least, average players. The only question mark when it comes to D. Thomas is durability. But considering that he seems to get stronger as the game goes on, I really don’t see that as being a problem either.
Jimmy Wilson looks, at the very worst, like a serviceable NFL corner. Seriously, a 7th round rookie with limited playing time thrust into a starting role and doing pretty well? The kid has a knack for making plays. I don’t see the basis for saying you’d be thrilled if he turned out as an average player.
As far as Clyde Gates is concerned, he has not proven himself by any means. All i’m going by is what I see from him which is supreme athletic ability. I’d get him out of the kick return role though. He doesn’t look like a natural open field runner. So I can agree with you on him. But I wouldn’t be thrilled if he turned out average. I want a stud deep threat or he can leave with Sparano. I hope they give him plenty of playing time.
by DolfanVince86 on Oct 21, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it's all a matter of perspective I suppose
Daniel Thomas had the rep for being oft injured, and he’s missed 2 games already, so I don’t know how you can state that durability won’t be a problem.
With Jimmy Wilson, all I’m saying is that he hasn’t done anything to thrill me at all. If you look strictly at the evidence, he has 7 tacles, 1 INT and 3 PD’s in 5 games – hardly anything to warrant excitement over. He’s also a big part of what is amongst the worse secondaries in the NFL statistically. That doesn’t mean I don’t think Jimmy Wilson wasn;t a good pick for a 7th rounder or that he’s not a player. And of course he should improve. But when a significant proportion of the fan base starts raving about Jimmy Wilson as a primary success of the draft, it says you had a weak draft IMO. But yeah, it’s still early.
As far as Clyde Gates is concerned, he’s been a disappoinment. I personally wasn’t expecting much this year, and not much he has delivered.
The original point to this sub-thread was to point out the homerism around here, where we tout Jimmy Wilson and Clyde Gates as major successes and evidence Ireland did well, when in reality he really didnt. Or at least, there’s no evidence thus far to say we drafted well.
I would love to be positive and I will be when the personnel decisions around here warrant such. I have to call a spade a spade.
Maybe this year’s draft class will be the one where he ultimately "hits" on a pick. It already seems like he may have, at least with D. Thomas, but Clyde Gates and Jimmy Wilson could turn out as studs as well.
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
If he is to get blame,then he is also to get credit.
Maybe not this year,but Jake Long is graded out as one of the best Left Tackles in the game.
He was picked over Matty Ice,when he was drafted,was slated to be only a RT in the NFL. Again,decision was made,and he has made an impact since his rookie season.
That same year, Davone Bess went undrafted,and has became one of the premiere slot corners in the NFL.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Oct 20, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry,meant premiere slot recievers,on phone,and got a call
Cam Wake was brought in the following year,yet another impact player.
The following year brought Marshall and Dansby,both big names,going on last year,Dansby was impactful,this year,not so much.
Follow that up with the Odrick pick,we havent exactly been given a chance,but has shown promise.
This year,we got a premiere center,a promising RB averaging 4.9 ypc,a reformed corner in the 7th rd.
Gates may take time,but we havent even given him half a season yet.
So far,i would say that his impact has been pretty damned good.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Oct 20, 2011 6:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thomas is averagibng 4.4 Y/C
With 5 total receptions
Henne is the greatest and the Dolphins will go 14-2 this year and win the SB
Here's another thing:
On this subject, where is Ireland’s credit? You are very quick to blame him and put him out, but where is his credit for providing the necessary pieces for BOTH the offensive and defensive sides in 2010?
2010 was a bad year offensively. The Phins were 30th in the league in scoring. But that was Henning’s fault. So what is the excuse this year? The Phins are actually worse.
Defensively, in 2010, they were highly ranked but didn’t create many impact plays. They were toward the bottom in creating turnovers. Wake, a FA signing, was the only player to generate any pass rush and sack the QB.
Special Teams coverage and returns have been awful both last year and this year, ranking toward the bottom of the league in each category.
One of the reasons that the Phins are where they are right now is because of poor drafting the last 4 years. I don’t think there is any doubt in that.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
I would argue that poor coaching is just as much to blame as poor drafting in this instance
As evidenced by the fact that our “offensive-line guru” head coach can’t put together a complete, cohesive line to save his life. The coaching on this team is unbelievably horrendous, IMO, and I’ll be absolutely thrilled to see them all get the boot sometime within the next three months (hopefully sooner than later). Tony Sparano and Co. have no comprehension of the modern pass-happy NFL works.
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
I agree. This coaching staff is not good. But talent wins too and I don't see the talent on this team to be anything other than mediocre. That's on Ireland.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
That's definitely true. There's plenty of blame to go around
and these clowns are as good as gone. I can’t stand Sparano anyway.
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
Get him out
And all the others players and coaches we got from the sorry ass dallass cowgirls. The cowgirls suck and we take all there leftovers so look at where it’s got us. I agree with you,what has Ireland done that has helped us? Time to clean house from the top all the way down and get some real talent in her. Monday night was a joke when the players no longer care that is the coaches fault. Sporano has no business as a head coach in the NFL.
I agree with Ireland being out,
but you may be ignoring players who have done well in the past and focusing only on the current situation we have here. While many of us wont disagree that we are disappointed in the performance of many of our draft picks at this moment, some of that falls on the coaching staff.
"My cats breath smells like cat food" a wise man once said...
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
I will never "Suck for Luck" !
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
Maybe, Maybe Not
I agree with Ireland being out, but you may be ignoring players who have done well in the past and focusing only on the current situation we have here.
My problem with the last 4 years of drafts is that there is no one that can be counted, or expected to, make plays game in, game out. Henne has the biggest profile because he is the QB. His biggest problem is his inconsistency. He will have a good game, look like a franchise QB, then have 3 or 4 games where he looks, well like Henne. Everybody else that has been drafted look the same way.
I want a single draft pick, that isn’t an offensive lineman, that can be counted on every week to be an impact player. There hasn’t been one in 4 years, IMO.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
i hear your frustration...
but hindsight is always 20/20. Most of us have been stoked with each of the draft classes we have had over the last 4 years. There were some questionable calls, but we have been hopefully optimistic after all of our drafts. again, i agree that he should be gone, but that is primarily because the whole administration needs to go to set a new climate of winning in the organization…not so much because of past drafts IMO.
"My cats breath smells like cat food" a wise man once said...
My love for THE MIAMI DOLPHINS is unconditional...period!
I will never "Suck for Luck" !
Win for pride, Win for us fans!
by Phinphinatic on Oct 20, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is the thing ...
Most of us have been stoked with each of the draft classes we have had over the last 4 years.
We are fans. This is their JOB!! We as fans trust them, and support them to a fault, to do their JOB well. After I think it is obvious that they haven’t done their jobs well.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
You said it best. We are the fans. We only see so much of the behind the scenes.
After I think it is obvious that they haven’t done their jobs well.
Alas, a great many in the organization (Especially Stephen Ross) disagree with you. We’re just gonna have to wait and see what the future holds. I just hope that if Ireland is fired that we get something better in his place.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you know who Ireland draft in 2008-2010? I know I dont
I only can judge Ireland off what I know and this draft class was the best we had since Parcell took over. Colombo was the only mistake Ireland made. Bush was not a mistake the team dont know how to use him. Not selecting a Qb in the draft was a good move also
Officially on board with Suck for Luck
You're joking, right?
Colombo was the only mistake?
How’s Kevin Burnett doing this season? Nevermind looking it up…I’ll just give you his stats. In the 5 games he’s played, he has SEVENTEEN tackles (14 solo – 1 tackle for loss), 0 sacks, 0 PD’d, 0 INT’s, and this guy was supposed to be our impact free agent signing this off-season to replace Crowder. Seems to me, he’s Crowder version 2.0 – only difference being; Burnett doesn’t run his mouth like Crowder did.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Oct 20, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
when we replace Crowder with Burnett you didnt consider it a upgrade?
Officially on board with Suck for Luck
by biggaandbadda on Oct 20, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn’t matter what I thought. I’m not the GM of the Dolphins, I do not attend meetings in the Player Personnel Department, nor am I, in any way, employed by the Dolphins. Therefore, what I think, and for that matter, what anyone else on this site thinks, is completely irrelevant in matters such as these. The proof is in the production of the players he’s bringing in, and through 5 games, Burnett is as bad, if not worse (I can’t believe I wrote that) than Crowder.
I’m merely pointing out the failure of Ireland goes well beyond Columbo. You can trace it back throughout any draft that Ireland has been a part of, along with many, if not all, of the FA’s he signed over his tenure.
You think Marshall is playing up to his contract, as another example? How about Dansby? I think not.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Oct 20, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to be fair we aren't talking about a huge dropoff and that is considering a VERY bad year for Burnett.
Crowder’s career averages per game:
Games Started (74): 6.33 total tackles, 4.63 solo tackles, 0.034 sacks (2.5), 0.23 passes defensed, and 0.014 INTs (1 INT)
Games Played (82): 5.71 total tackles, 4.18 solo tackles, 0.030 sacks, 0.20 passes defensed, and 0.012 INTs
Burnett’s averages this year (5 games): 3.4 total tackles, 2.8 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 passes defensed and 0 INT but his averages in the previous two combined seasons are equal to or better than Crowders.
Burnett did have 4 solo tackles against the Jets. Maybe give Burnett a full season before we condemn him for being beneath Crowder?
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear what you’re saying, and believe me when I tell you that I’d be the last guy to defend Crowder. Up until this point in time, Burnett has been awful.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Oct 20, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Do I know who Ireland drafted in 2008-2010? Yes I do. Every single draft pick that the Dolphins made in those years.
Ireland is the GM. That is his job to run the draft. But I forgot, it’s all Parcells fault. And it will be Parcells fault for the next 5-10 years just like we continue to blame Saban and Wanstadt.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Ireland
He has had his hand in every draft folks. He has had his hand in churning the roster. GMs need to know the dynamic of their teams mental state. You can’t F—- with vets by cutting them and then bring them back and expect a team to gel. Crowder is an excellent example of Ireland not knowing his players impact. An if you cut a player. The guy you bring in better have more than a contract year stat line. I’ve always been middle of the road with our drafts. These last 4 drafts we have had don’t match up with the strength of the drafts. We keep looking for unknowns that will prove how smart we are. If that makes sense. Most of us questioned these picks. So to say its a 20/20 hindsight is false.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
by FinFanFromCA on Oct 20, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
You will say anything to back up your point of view. It dont even make sense trying debate this topic
Parcell said it himself that he was the one who drafted Pat White
Officially on board with Suck for Luck
by biggaandbadda on Oct 20, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Pat White was a David Lee Call. Sorry B&B. Remember when all the signs went up in the draft room in 2010 about drafting certains types of players?
I think everyone knows I don’t like Ireland. So I try and stay out of these debates.
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
by FinFanFromCA on Oct 20, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Good POST - REC...
Not drafting a QB was a HORRIBLE move… We could have taken Mallett in the second rd easily after the trade up for a slow (4.63) 2 fumbles already RB… Yea – I dont like Thomas… he’s not terrible – but RB’s like this are a dime a dozen…and drafted much lower. CLAY ? has done nothing …We would be better off with Lousaka monster still on the team… POUNCY ? yea whatever – still developing but he is not a pro bowl player – I doubt he ever will be… byt the way SATELE our OLD center is starting for the RAIDERS – anyone notice their run game ? Its better than ours by a lot…
I LOVED the pick of GATES – but this staff can’t use him – or Bush correctly… coaching/GM/FO all need to go as quick as possible…
LASTLY – our record speaks for itsself… we are 0-5 and that FALLS ON THE FO- COACH AND GM…
OMG – If Denver comes into our house and porks us ? the fans should revolt…
41 Year FIN FAN
Franchise QB... NOW !!! ...Draft Ryan Mallett ...Draft some Freakin speed for a change. WR & RB speed kills......
We could've taken Mallett and waited on him for a year OR we could solidify the O-line and take Luck or Jones this year. Ireland made the right move.
Henne was still an option and if he failed we could pick up an even better prospect than any of the QBs from last years draft this year in Luck or Jones (Barkley was also a thought and now so is Robert Griffin III). Have you noticed that Henne has outplayed 2 of the 3 rookies that have started this season? Henne-79.0 rating vs Newton-78.3 and Gabbert-71.1 and nobody was calling us to pick Dalton so leave him out of the discussion.
byt the way SATELE our OLD center is starting for the RAIDERS – anyone notice their run game ? Its better than ours by a lot…Satele is one guy. So is Pouncey. Now compare the other Raider linemen to ours. Veldheer isn’t Long but he is very good and easily outperforms every member of our o-line not named Long or Pouncey. Steve Wisniewski is also a rookie that many of us were talking about drafting this past year. Anyone want to guess if he is outperforming Incognito? How about Barnes vs Colombo? Letting Satele go was a big mistake. Who was in charge of that mistake again?
Another thing to bear in mind is the short and uncoordinated prep time allotted to this year’s rookie class.
There is no question we are all frustrated with this past year and if we lose next week we will all really go postal but 2012 MUST be handled correctly for us to move beyond these years of mediocre play. Ireland has shown himself to be a fairly good evealuator of talent and I’d rather stick with him than bring in somebody unproven for such a vital draft.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure
saying that Henne was slightly better then a young INT machine, an unprepared young QB on a very bad team and is being outplayed by the 5th best QB in that draft is really making Henne look good.
by LordBishop34 on Oct 20, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not trying to make him look good. It's trying to show just how much these QB's were NOT world beaters.
Keep in mind that Dalton has played against 6 teams that are a combined 13-21 (.382) while Henne played against 3 teams who were a combined 10-7 (.588) (14-8: .636 if you count San Diego) and Henne had an 82.4 rating against those 3 teams despite his offense. Any of the QBs we could’ve drafted would have had all the obstacles to overcome that Henne had as well as a lesser center.
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
All good points, but Satele has it a lot easier out in the AFC West
Truth be told, he just couldn’t hold up the point of attack in the AFC East. The fact that it took two years to replace him absolutely sucks, but I don’t miss Satele at all. Pouncey would eat Samson, IMO.
Welcome to Sun Life(less) Stadium!
Thanks Lou!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Ireland needs to go. Rec'd CT
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
Hope and Change----With the first pick in the 2012 NFL Draft The Miami Dolphins select Andrew Luck, QB Stanford
Thanks FFFCA!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
To the six of you that voted yes (at the time of my post)
You need to have your head examined.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
Not drafting Aaron Hernandez or Jimmy Graham really pissed me off
What’s hurting our offense is not having a threat at TE and a QB to get it to him. If we get LUck or one of the other top QBs and a fast TE I think our offense will tAke a big leap.we have no identity, we need to go back to building a power running game but the key is to have the versatlility to switch to a a spread passing game when need be like the patriots. They pounded with BJGE and then spread it out to welker and Hernandez and woodhead. I’d like to see bush converted to WR, a hybrid slot WR who lines up occasionally the backfield like woodhead.
On defense, Burnett although he’s been disappointing, he has good coverage skills and can stay with TE’s, dans by is decent and wake needs to learn another move other than the bull rush. We have no pass rush which is exposing our secondary, Sean smith has been a disappointment, the only ones I would keep back there are Davis,Wilson, Clemons or jones, we need more speed on defense, we look slow and old up front, who’s rushing opposite side of wake? We need to draft a young pass rusher and sign a CB or Safety in FA.
As far as the drafts, I liked this last draft a lot, gates looks lost though and is terrible at returns, ur right though, we pick up too many solid, ok guys and not enough impact players. I would get rid of Ireland not because he was terrible,(he wasn’t) but because he wasn’t daring enough to take any gambles, they got Marshall because they almost had to, we were screaming for a number one WR for years and even at hurt us giving up 2 2’s, we could have drafted dez Bryant as well, I was pissed when they traded back for odrick and misi, see that’s the mentality of this organization, when u draft that high u gotta take impact players in my opinion, unless u have Tom Brady of course….
"The Reggie Bush Experience" coming NEXT FALL apparently....
we pick up too many solid, ok guys and not enough impact players.
We draft “safe” picks. Safe picks aren’t normally impact players. This philosophy needs to change if we are to re-build this franchise.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." George Carlin
by DolphinNation on Oct 20, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Safe picks?
DT wasnt a safe pick,Wilson wasnt a safe pick,even for a seventh rounder. Drafting a center at 15 overall is hardly the safe pick. If he flops, it reflects poorly,he didn’t,so Ireland smells like a rose.
The year before, Odrick would have been the safe pick,if not for his medical history. Drafting a 4-3 defensive end in the second round,and trying to convert him to a position in a defense he has never played before is hardly the safe bet,especially when there were players in the first round that were deemed perfect for the switch,is hardly the safe pick.
If you ask me,the definition of a safe pick on this site has been widely misconscrued. To the point that it is a safe pick,as long as we dont agree with the call.
Pouncey is a make or break draft pick in the first round. If he flops,it reflects poorly on us. Trading up to the second round to draft Daniel Thomas is arguably the safe bet,but not when his draft stock went down in the combine due to injury.
Gates was our safest pick this year. He went in the fourth round,where Teddy Ginn should have the year Cam Cameron drafted him in the first round.
Then the sixth round came,and we replaced Lousaka (im) polite in the sixth round,with a diverse future weapon we have yet to unleash imo.
In the seventh,we drafted a NT prospect,and a corner that has been out of football for two seasons while fighting a murder charge. Tell me how either of those are safe picks?
This is a reflection of an Ireland draft. The years previous i believe while he had some say,he had yet to gain the full confidence to draft how he wanted to draft without the scrutiny and guidance of Bill Parcells. Call it as you may,but we all know that if Parcells didnt have full control,he would simply walk,as he did this year.
All in all,you can say what you want,but several teams reached for players this season,the Dolphins werent one of them unless you count Pouncey,who would have went to New York at 22,so not too much of a reach if he was in fact our guy,and after Maurkice did so well,and he was slated to be better than his brother,he deserved to go higher than his brother.
This year,we will have our balls busted by the fans if we get the first ovwrall pick, say the third,and trade down. But a move like that would be considered genious if we ended up with RG 3,Fleener,and Costanzo out of the deal. Yet people will refuse to see it and give credit.
Judging by this year,he deserves one last shot,because this year,he actually did pretty damned good. Even if he didnt get who we all wanted,he got who we all needed.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Oct 20, 2011 7:33 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Rec #2 for you sir. Great blow by blow breakdown of the past few year's draft selections.
Unfortunately, Misi’s selection just goes to show that he wasn’t a great choice (albeit not a safe choice). and that Odrick hasn’t been very effective either. This does illustrate that you win some and you lose some.
It should also be repeated that the QBs in the 2011 class were not ready to start and wouldn’t be until at least 2012 (Newton being the potential exception but also being gone well before our pick) while several 2012 QBs would be ready to start in the NFL right away. With Henne getting the start this year, no QB we drafted had even the slightest chance of starting in 2011 (Barring injury of course) so why take a lesser project in 2011 when you could have a bettter and more polished prospect in 2012?
NY Jets = NFL's Chicago Cubs
There's a fine line between hopeful and desperate. Just look @ Jets fans.
by TheFinReaper on Oct 20, 2011 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't believe how short-sighted some of you are
Look, I’m not saying Jeff Ireland is the NFL executive of the year, but this team has a lot more talent now than when he first got here, a lot more. The guy deserves some credit. You need some perspective here – go back and look at the drafts/free agent signings the Dolphins had from Wanny-Cameron…yeesh! But there’s more to it than that. Everybody’s so quick to whack the guy without thinking of who would replace him. Quick, name another GM who 1) is actually available, and 2) would want to work for Ross. Let me help you out here: you can’t name one. It starts at the top, and I’m referring to that putz of an owner – the Dan Snyder of the AFC, and that’s even with Mike Brown in Cincy.
The complete lack of drafting a playmaker in any phase of the game in 4 drafts is reason enough for Ireland to be gone at the end of the year, IMO.
I am not advocating keeping Ireland but this statement is both unfair and untrue at the same time. You can not judge him on all 4 years when none of us know for sure how many of those picks were on his head but we know ones like the Pat White pick for example were all on Parcells. Not know this for sure then how do you charge him with responsibility for those? Also if you think we have not improved the talent then your not paying attention. His first pick in his first draft on his own for example is an absolute stud at center. Unless you are one of those people that are going to try and convince me that center is not a position of importance.
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