The Saturday Debate: Is a first round running back a good idea?
by Matty I on Jan 29, 2011 5:00 AM EST
in 2012 Miami Dolphins News
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PrintRonnie Brown and Ricky Williams are both free agents. So it's well known that the Miami Dolphins have an obvious need at the running back position this offseason. Because of that, many draft "experts" out there are linking the top running back April's NFL Draft - Alabama's Mark Ingram - to the Dolphins in the first round. On the surface, it's a logical fit. And some would think that landing the top back available in the draft - a former Heisman Trophy winner - with the 15th overall pick would be a "touchdown" for a franchise in need of a new starting running back.
Mel Kiper, Don Banks, and many others in the "mock draft" business have been connecting the obvious dots in their very early NFL mock drafts, linking the Dolphins to Ingram. Many compare Ingram to former Cowboys great Emmitt Smith in terms of running style - and the comparison seems quite accurate.
But I can't say I'm as sold as most on the idea of taking Ingram - or any running back, for that matter, in the first round of the NFL Draft. There are a few reasons I feel this way:
- I always believed Emmitt was partly a product of an outstanding offensive line. Like Smith, Ingram doesn't have elite speed - something Miami's offense desperately needs. And considering how poor the Dolphins' offensive line was a year ago run blocking, I worry that Ingram would not have the kind of impact on this offense that many assume he will have.
- There are many options the Dolphins could turn to in free agency to fill the void in their backfield without spending a first round pick on a position with such a short shelf life. Guys like DeAngelo Williams, Michael Bush, Ahmad Bradshaw, and Pierre Thomas just to name a few. Of course, we don't know when free agency might even begin since we must first wait for a new CBA.
- You can find quality running backs in the mid and late rounds of the draft. Just look at the top ten in the NFL in rushing this past season. Only four were first round picks. And none of the top three were drafted earlier than the third round. Also consider some of the recent first round running backs. Guys like Knowshon Moreno, Donald Brown, Beanie Wells, Felix Jones, Marshawn Lynch, and Laurence Maroney (just to name a few). Not exactly a list of guys with accomplished careers.
So the question I pose to you all this weekend - do you think it's a good idea for the Dolphins to draft a running back in the first round this year?
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If we get one of the guys listed above, in FA
then no. But, even if we don’t get one of them, we shouldn’t draft one in the first. Over the past few years, RB’s that have been drafted in the 3-7, have been having great succes. Take Hillis, and Greene for example.
The OL is more important.
"Welcome to, The Doghouse"
"The more people I meet the more I like my dog."
Driving the "Draft Mike Pouncey" go-kart.
Winner of The Davone Bess Little Guy Award, 2010
by Kdog92 on Jan 29, 2011 6:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree, a running back in the first round is a waste.
Also, even if he is the exact same back as Emmitt, that doesn’t guarantee he will be the best pick. Emmitt was great, but his greatest asset was his lack of injuries. The guy is around 100th on the list of career yards per carry average. He is a hall of famer because he lasted 15 seasons with a pretty hefty work load with minimal missed games. Even if Ingram is as good of a back, the odds of a running back getting injured these days are high. Also, we still wouldn’t have a speed compliment to him.
Trade down and get the best offensive lineman. The best inside offensive lineman in the draft often goes in the 20s. Trade down to the late 20s and grab a late 2nd rounder with it.
Well, we did a good job fixing the defense in the last off-season and a decent job fixing the special teams during the season. Now let's find an offense!
by Dakota Phan on Jan 29, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No to 1st round running back
without a great o line you will not have a great running back. This year our o line sucked and so did our running game. This year to last years running game is like night and day. Same running backs different o line. Keep R&R get rid of Lex draft a running back in 3-6 rounds.
I think we should keep Lex
If anything,I think the front office wants to keep their guy here. Keep Him,and Sheets,sign a top teir free agent at the position,if anything,Lex has shown versatility as he can both play Runningback and fullback,and his running style is should be improved after playing behind these guys.
Truth is,their biggest attribute is age,Ronnie is 28,Ricky is 35,or will be. Keep the fresher talent.
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Jan 29, 2011 9:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why would we get rid of Lex Hilliard?
He has no trade value, he makes a minimal salary, and he is completely unproven. Do you suggest releasing him?
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
draft da'rell scott in the 7th
u of maryland kid who was held back because the o line wasnt right for his game but kid is quick and has great vision. will be a steal in the 7th
i think qb would be a logical 1st round pick
dont get me wrong i think henne will start and possibly do better next year cause henning was horrible, but i still think if miami can land cam newton or someone else that has upside like that, then that’d be the best choice and they’ll have a year to develop, but i think if they get cam newton then maybe we could just throw him in if he beats out henne for the job, cause i dont think henne can take us to the playoffs next year, henning screwed him up beyond repair and that blows cause he had potential to be really good. but oh well. but if we get a rb it shouldnt be the first pick, and i dont think ingram would be a fit at all. plus the o-line needs upgradesbefore we grab a rb, but i like the idea of getting one late or maybe two and just see wat happens instead of drafting high at rb just to be let down.
The thing you get with Cam Newton also ...
If you wanted to you could have him play the trigger-man for the Wildcat. I personally do not think it is any more of a rhythm killer for a QB than handing off for a play or two. We could see if Henne develops and possibly even convince Cam to try something like TE to put the ball in his hands as a rookie.
"And my head I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain" --Henning
"Just because I'm presumin' That I could be a human, If I only had a heart" --Henne
"But I could show my prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess
If I only had the nerve."--Sparano
by Jason Scott_90 on Jan 29, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
Would he be willing to do that though...
Or would he rather go play baseball(obvious pat white reference)????
"And my head I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain" --Henning
"Just because I'm presumin' That I could be a human, If I only had a heart" --Henne
"But I could show my prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess
If I only had the nerve."--Sparano
by Jason Scott_90 on Jan 29, 2011 7:56 AM EST up reply actions
With all the concern about the O-Line Newton makes sense.
He’s bigger than the three O-Linemen we have in the Hall of Fame.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
by PhrozenPhish on Jan 29, 2011 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
The Wildcat is Dead
With or without Newton. Or Ronnie Brown. We don’t need to draft a “triggerman” for the Wildcat. We’ll throw in a play or two now and then to mix it up and that’s it.
And Newton is a huge stretch and has bust written all over him. They guy only played 14 games and was lucky enough to play them for the best team in college football. Picking Newton will set us back for years.
by Saxonthebeach on Jan 29, 2011 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Newton made Auburn the best team in college football.
Nowhere was they listed in anybody’s forecast to win a championship. If he bust, like some qbs does, it will be due to the inheriting system.
Damn the sheriff, Bring on MARSHALL LAW
by fin4three5yrs on Jan 29, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
Two championships
He also won the junior college championship the year before. And in his first year playing with the big boys he was the best player and Heisman trophy winner. The Jest traded up to take Sanchez 5th pick and he played only one year of college ball. If Newton is there we need to take a chance and get him.
by NawlinsPhinPhan on Jan 30, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
The Wildcat is dead?
Tell that to The Jets.
It becomes effective with a good O-line.
'Phins phor Liphe!
Sign Ortonomus Prime!
I think we need to stop listening to Bill Parcells.
He’s a washed up old-timer with outdated “rules” for drafting. I’m not saying Cam Newton is going to be the next Josh Freeman, but I don’t think the fact that he only started 14 games should deter the Dolphins from potentially drafting him.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
We missed out on the "top Offensive center" in year's cuz (Bill Parcells) Is defensive happy!
His first year Long, was the pick. His second year was Mr. Pouncey, at center then he could of went D! But……………………………………………..long story!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Jan 29, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Problem is
None of the 1st round QBs are a sure thing this year. Gabbert will be gone by 15 and picking Newton (who I think will be a bust – the guy’s played 14 college games) or Locker (who nobody likes, but is still projected in the first round for lack of other options) will set us back far more than fresh legs at RB and Henne.
by Saxonthebeach on Jan 29, 2011 9:01 AM EST up reply actions
no way
Oline or qb with the first. Depends on our options and if we trade down or not.
Kacy Rodgers Our D-Line Coach. Got to give him some credit.
Andy Dalton. My favorite QB of this draft. Look him up.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
One of the best sayings "Play to win" I can't find fault if you do.
i still think well trade down
And get BPA in round 1
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Jan 29, 2011 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i still think well trade down
And get BPA in round 1
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Jan 29, 2011 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not a chance
Trade down and select 2 Offensive lineman. Resign Ronnie and then get one of the rb’s mentioned above or Sproles. Think of the line with LT: Long, LG: 2nd round pick, C: 1st round pick, RG: Jerry, RT: Carey. Pretty solid for years to come.
I have been thinking we should move Carey inside to RG....
Then move Jerry outside to RT. Carey is too slow to play RT anymore…
"And my head I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain" --Henning
"Just because I'm presumin' That I could be a human, If I only had a heart" --Henne
"But I could show my prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess
If I only had the nerve."--Sparano
by Jason Scott_90 on Jan 29, 2011 7:57 AM EST up reply actions
If you are too slow for Tackle you are WAY too slow for Guard.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
by PhrozenPhish on Jan 29, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Im also very concerned
about how many people want to move John Jerry to tackle. ive made it clear that i dont think that is a permanent solution. Tackle is a hard position to play, it requires great feet, smarts, strength, an ability to combat leverage effectively, great vision, and patience in space.
i thought John Jerry really struggled in space this season. From a fundamental standpoint he has a tendency to get overexposed and beat on his front foot. throughout the year he got more patient in pass protection but not much better. When not attached to Berger on his left and Vernon on his right he couldnt maintain one on ones in space. At the Tackle position you are even more isolated, I like him in that he has starting experience which could be a good quality down the road as a backup but he was defenitaly not a bright spot on the line.
As for Vernon Carey he hasnt been very impressive these last two seasons I agree. i think he isnt in good shape, his speed was a factor, but also his vision. At gaurd you need both, and a fair amount of it. We need to lay into Carey this offseason, and if we arent assured of better play at TACKLE from him I think a move needs to be made there as well.
I might be wrong...
but I think the ProFootball Outsiders rated Carey as one of the best RTs in the NFL in 2009. …last year…not so much.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
by PhrozenPhish on Jan 29, 2011 9:30 AM EST up reply actions
yea i know i remember
i didnt get it at all. Matty actually said “Do these guys even watch Dolphins games” when they said that. LOL. And im dead serious ill go find the qoute in archives if i can.
Carey's paycheck jumps 400% this year
from 950k to 4+ Million, and I’m not sure where we’re at on the cap. There are a couple of players I would like seeing pursued.
I would love to see
LT Long
LG Mankins
C O’Dowd
RG Incognito
RT Carey
Truman Capote would average 8 yards per.
I’d also like to see Haloti Ngata as our NT. Solioli improved, but what does that mean when you start at Mediocre. IMO, in any other division he’s great…but he ran out of gas. With Ngata… Wake has 20 sacks!
How much do we have to spend? Can someone post what the cap is?
Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
Vernon Carey could be trade bait...
He has value in the NFL. I wonder what the Dolphins could get for him?
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
i think we could use him to move up with the second round pick we aqquire
Later ill post the mock draft but I have us taking this tight end in the second round that’s like the second coming of Jason Witten. Complete tight end,and we all know how well Fasano played opposite Witten
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Jan 30, 2011 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Not true... lots of players move inside when they get older...
Its not really like he is too slow … he is not quick enough… Your ability to play in space against a premier OLB has nothing to do with your ability to get out in front when you are pulling.
"And my head I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain" --Henning
"Just because I'm presumin' That I could be a human, If I only had a heart" --Henne
"But I could show my prowess, be a lion not a mou-ess
If I only had the nerve."--Sparano
by Jason Scott_90 on Jan 29, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
^This
I happen to be a believer in Michael Bush.
I think Incognito could be in the mix to start at LG or C.
by Saxonthebeach on Jan 29, 2011 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
If there is no QB worthy of the pick
You gotta go with Ingram. Besides the QB, no other person will handle the ball more than the RB. With our QB position the way it is, you gotta have that stud. Yea we need speed, but we need play makers too. If we can’t pass the ball, you want to be handing our offense to a 4th rder or some broken down RB? Thomas and Williams are coming off the IR with shared running duties. Haven’t we had enough with RBs on the IR? (Although I kinda like WIlliams)
Been reading about trading down and drafting OL with our 1st 2 picks. I got news for ya, you aren’t finding play makers in the 4th rd + much. I know the OL needs to be addressed, but not with our 1st 2 picks.
No pick is guaranteed anyway. If we are gonna strike out with our 1st rd pick, might as well strike out swinging for the fences. I’d prefer that than trying for a single and grounding out. You pick up? Matty you ran down the list of 1st rd QBs busts when we had the #1 overall when I was pushing hard for Matty Ice. I know and feel what you are saying but…..
Bottom Line:
Sometimes you just gotta grow a pair.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
well it depends on the assesmnet we make as far as Chad Henne
everyone is very quick to throw him away but its a big move. if we make the decision thought that we are going to move on then yes your right we have to draft a Quarterback at 15 and possibly even move up into the top ten, which is extremly expensive. But we dont know that this FO is sold on Chad one way or the other, i know im not. if we are going to stay with Henne which to me really feels logical, then trading down is an appealing thought.
It is well documented how badly we need to revamp the interior line, to me it is one of our most vital concerns on the team, and it is the one that is going to take the most moves to fix, or at least repair. We wont take a back at 15 though.
We wont take a back at 15 though.
We aren’t picking anything at 15 I don’t think. I’m 97% sure.-) Parcells has a history of not picking backs in the 1st rd, but Ireland said something a long the lines of "they are gonna start doing thing that is not Parcells like.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
i agree i think we just
have too many pressing needs to not have a second round pick. Hopefulling the CBA ordeal can be in place, because going into the draft blind, where we stand now without dipping into Free Agency wouldnt be good at all. We are a team who benefits right now from having Free Agency first.
No doubt
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
I think I disagree with you and agree with you at the same time.
I agree with your philosophy. But the problem is, I don’t think that Ingram is worth the 15th overall pick. Besides, I think that with Miami’s O-line in its current state, Steven Jackson and Adrian Peterson are the only two backs that could survive.
You know, your comments have me thinking that maybe the Dolphins do need to “grow a pair” and draft Jake Locker. Even if it means giving up on reacquiring a second round pick. They could always go get Logan Mankins in free agency!
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Logan Mankins in free agency!
I like this
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
IMAGINE
Jake Long and Logan Mankins holding down the left side. HOF duo!
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder which side we'd run to?
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
If Henning was here, we'd run to the right anyways.
You think Cleveland's cool? I've never heard anybody say "I'm going to Cleveland on vacation." What's so good about Cleveland?- Joakim Noah
LOL
You are so right. And then he’d blame “execution”.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
i would be shocked
if Mankins hits the market. He is a huge piece to the way The Patriots play offensively. He will be the first priority for NE.
The reason i'm confident that the Fins could get Mankins
Is because Mankins held out for a new contract, he’s clearly unhappy with the Patriots, and he did not receive a new contract. If the Dolphins offer him a good deal, i’d be willing to bet he’d take his talents to south beach and stick it to the Patsies!
He's got a beef with them
He won’t come back, baring a contract they won’t pay him.
You think Cleveland's cool? I've never heard anybody say "I'm going to Cleveland on vacation." What's so good about Cleveland?- Joakim Noah
I bet Mankins will be wearing a Dolphin jersey this season!
Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
We need to make a big push for Mankins.
Then move Incognito to center or RG (his natural position) if Jerry struggles. Draft the best available interior lineman and groom him to fill in/replace Mankins/Incognito/Jerry. A healthy DeAngelo Williams would be a beast behind that OL.
Ingram Would Be My Pick...
…but I’d try and see if we can drop down a few slots to get him.
Been lurking but haven’t posted in awhile. Neo, myself, and a couple others were very vocal about picking Matt Ryan a few years ago. Now I love Jake Long, but how different of a position would this franchise be in if Matt Ryan would have been the pick? Thats a rhetorical question, so save the flamefest. :)
The argument that you can find good RB’s in the late rounds has always been amusing to me. Yes, there are a lot of them found just because of the sheer numbers that are drafted. However, if you look at the production PER player drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds, you’ll find that overall the higher drafted players are more productive.
Spend about 30 minutes and watch all of the video you can find on Youtube on Ingram, and you will see why people are saying he reminds them of Emmitt Smith. He didn’t have top-end speed and he was always able to break-off long runs.
My only issue with Ingram is whether his past injury is going to be an issue. if the doctors say it won’t, grab him. If you can trade down a few spots, pick-up an extra pick, and still nab Ingram, even better. I don’t care what his measureables are. Everything I need to know about him, aside from any injuries, I can see on the videos.
Like Neo said, sometimes you just have to have your convictions about a player, and go for it.
I'm sorry but this draft class has got to be one of the worse in years
Nobody except Cam Newton “WOWS” me…
by Goon305Boy10 on Jan 29, 2011 8:37 AM EST via mobile reply actions
When I look at Ingram...
I see Shaun Alexander. The buzz on him was the same…not quite fast enough…yadyada..then all he did was tear up the NFL for five years including 27 TDs in 2005.
Ya, you can get Peyton Hillis in the four round, but yiu can get Adian Peterson in the first.
Our O-Line is not horrible it’ just wasn’t as good as we thought it was going to be. Sprarno pointed out in an interview once that R&R almost never got caught in the backfield, they were getting caught after 2yds…that would suggest the line is doing it’s job, at least initially.
The relationship between Lines and RBs is symbiotic…a good line makes a back better and a good back makes a Line better…Ingram has great feet and vision and unreal drive…he can make someone miss in the hoie, run through arm tackles and get to the second level. …personally I think If we don’t take him we’re going to be watching him tear it up for someone else.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
I agree with this,
and I voted yes, but wanted to vote for, it depends. If you have identified good linemen you can get in later rounds, you don’t rate the QB’s and you like the look of Ingram, it makes perfect sense. You’d be getting a good player for sure.
Sparano is just covering his ass
Sprarno pointed out in an interview once that R&R almost never got caught in the backfield, they were getting caught after 2yds…that would suggest the line is doing it’s job, at least initially.
Ugh. I watched Ronnie Brown repeatedly dance behind the offensive line, looking for a hole, only to dive forward once the play broke down so that the Dolphins didn’t lose yards. Maybe they weren’t tackled for a “loss”, but they were no-gainers. Ricky Williams didn’t have the same problem because he is more of a one-cut runner.
Basically, the offensive line didn’t have any punch. I didn’t see anyone driving their blocks upfield. And Berger was a total joke.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And yet, when they had to man up and give the ball to Polite
on short yardage…which everyone in the world knew was coming, they almost always got it..
had to be some punch there
Agreed on Berger. I will go to my grave not understanding what happened with Groves and Berger..but I don’t think the line sucked to the degree a lot of people say it did.
It looks a lot like Incognito could be the C next yaer…open the vault, sign Mankins and we’re in good shape and still able to pick our spots in the draft.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
by PhrozenPhish on Jan 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Toasterr wrote a good piece on what you're talking about.
The offensive line was able to get enough push to gain 2 yards. The problem was, they weren’t driving blocks up the field to create consisten 4-5-6 yard gains. And you’ve got to give Lousaka Polite a little credit! The guy is a beast in short yardage situations! One of the best in the NFL.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
he isnt performing at the level id like though.
I love what Lousaka has done in short yardage he is money, but his pass blocking and fundamental breakdowns in run support jump out. Dont get me wrong we are lucky to have him, he offers alot more than he is limited to doing, but he is no Vonta Leach.
The O-Line needs to be addressed
I agree that the O-line was’nt horrible, but it was’nt good either and there was a lack of depth. I think we should trade up for Pouncey, or trade down for extra picks and take the best C/OG/OT available
by the end it was as bad as any in the league
the lack of depth is horrible and it seems to be a recurring theme every season. Trading down though helps us acquire some much needed depth and not just on the line.
by civwarbuff on Jan 29, 2011 8:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
True...that's a solid point.
In a perfect world (from my standpoint) Ingram is still there at ..say 25 and we can do both…but in a perfect world I’ll win $100 million on the Loto.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
by PhrozenPhish on Jan 29, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
We wouldn't need to trade up for Pouncey.
He could actually fall to us in the later parts of the first round. However, what i’m hearing is that he’s “not nearly as good as his brother”. He also projects to be a center in the NFL and Richie Incognito is actually a possible solution at that position. Besides, i’m a bigger fan of Orlando Franklin. Not just because he’s from the U! He’s huge (6"7 320) and he’s rated as the best guard in this draft class.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
It was late 20s
It was pretty awful.
You think Cleveland's cool? I've never heard anybody say "I'm going to Cleveland on vacation." What's so good about Cleveland?- Joakim Noah
If the CBA is not done by the draft...or the next few months
our philosophy will probably be: “best man available”
"Welcome to, The Doghouse"
"The more people I meet the more I like my dog."
Driving the "Draft Mike Pouncey" go-kart.
Winner of The Davone Bess Little Guy Award, 2010
Decent Pick
I’d rather we trade down a few spots, pick up an extra draft pick, and take Pouncey, but we shouldn’t stretch for him at 15.
No to Ingram. No to OL. At #15 it better be a QB, a speedy WR, or a FS.
Running Back is a throw away position. Draft them late, use them up, then get rid of them in a couple of years. No sense wasting a high pick and paying a lot of money for the RB position.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Agree ...
No to RB at #15, for all the following reasons:
- there are more than enough good RBs available in FA;
- if there is no FA, then we’ll get everyone back: Ronnie, Ricky, Hilliard & Cobbs. No need to pour more money in the position.
- even if we get none in FA, I wouldn’t be uncomfortable with one between Ronnie/Ricky, plus Hilliard and Cobbs.
- valuable RBs, especially complementary ones, can easily be had in lower rounds.
The off-season strategy should go as follows: get the best possible QB in whichever phase happens first, draft or FA, then use the other phase to pick yet another QB to compete and increase chances. In other words, if the PHins determine that any of the 1-st round QBs in their board is available at #15, they ought to pull the trigger. If we can get a highly rated prospect then even a Matt leinart or BIlly Volek through FA should be a good addition.
In no circumstances should the Phins throw picks at a trade involving QBs.
And if plans a, B & C fail: what about giving a real chance to Tyler Thigpen? He could also run the Wildcat without having to bench the QB ….. just sayin’ ….
by toscana jones on Jan 29, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
I find it interesting
that everyone wants to replace our QB because he sucked. Rightfully so, but everyone wants Ricky and or Ronnie back and they sucked just as bad. Why the double standard?
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
by Neo on Jan 29, 2011 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it's not a double standard
it’s the fact that in the nowadays NFL a decent QB is so much more valuable than an even great RB. Besides, both R&R have proved in the past they can be top performers at their positions, while Henne hasn’t yet. And then, we are talking about keeping one, not both. And nobody is talking about kicking henne to the curb, just take other guys who can compete with him.
by toscana jones on Jan 29, 2011 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
R&R have proved in the past they can be top performers at their positions
Ricky will be 35 and Ronnie hasn’t proved he can do anything after the injuries.
nobody is talking about kicking henne to the curb
LOL. Just about everyone is talking about kicking Henne to the curb.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
by Neo on Jan 29, 2011 10:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think with R & R it comes down to homerism
Which, until now, I admit was why I pulled for those guys. But their performance and age can’t be overlooked.
Rookie Dolphins Fan Dylan Luc, born Oct. 26th, 2010..........Doing my part to increase the fan base......
R&R played a worse running back
than Henne played QB
Dan Henning is the sole reason the dolphins aren't a Superbowl Caliber team.
GET PETE CARMICHAEL JR. FOR HC RIGHT NOW!
by Gamer2102 on Jan 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
This gets far less notice…for some raeson.
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Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
by PhrozenPhish on Jan 29, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't want Ricky and Ronnie back. I want someone with speed back there.
I am tired of the slow, plodding offense that the Phins have shown. Either via the draft or FA, get speed. At WR (Hartline is slow as shit), at RB, hell even at QB, this team needs speed on offense. The only 2 skill position players on offense worth keeping are Marshall and Bess. Replace everyone else if you can.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
I understand what you are saying
But we still need that “thunder” back to go a long with the speed back.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
I think the days of the "thunder" back are dying if not dead already.
A succesful running game in today’s NFL is predicated on big gains or chunks of yards. Johnson, Charles, McCoy, McFadden, etc. will have a 7 or 8 short runs in a row and then break one off for 25+. That is the nature of running the ball in the NFL right now. DL’s are too good to consistently get 5 yds on every carry.
And that is the problem with “thunder” backs. They get the same number of 2 or 3 yard runs as speed backs. But when the opportunity comes to get that 25+ yard run they can’t because they don’t make people miss or don’t have the speed to make it happen.
I want a RB that can make people miss in the hole and gain significant yards. The last 2 years the Dolphins have ranked in the very bottom of the league in rushes of 20+ yards. And that is supposedly with a very good rushing attack last year and a very bad rushing attack this year. Without the possibility of taking any run “to the house” so to speak, no defense will be threatened by a running game.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Yea, but near the goal line,
when its 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2 and near the end of games, I want the ‘thunder’ back.
I’m not saying I don’t want a speed back, I do. But I see the importance of the ‘thunder’ back. Not to mention, those speed backs usually can’t carry the load for 25+ carries a game.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
I also think the guys carrying the ball 25+ times a game is dead.
Most teams are going RB by committee which means 15-18 max carries a game for any one RB.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
I like the idea of bringing Matt Leinart in.
He’s had an unfortunate career, and he’d be able to serve the role of backup quarterback, while still providing some upside!
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
The last thing we needs are the R&R back
Ricky is aging and Ronnie is a shadow of what he used to be…
Hopefully CBA comes around early enough…
A-Michael Bush + Ryan Williams in 2nd rd (assuming we trade down)
B-Trade down, O-line 1st and 2nd Round + Deangelo Williams/ Cooper (later rds)
C-Stick with it- Ingram in 1st
D-Trading Down- Best back available late 1st + Oline in 2nd (or Vice-versa)
Leader of the Draft Ingram and Cooper Train! hop on!
What is the fascination with Cam Newton? He has a much better chance of being the next Jamarcus Russell than of being the next Tom Brady
by FWE on Jan 29, 2011 10:01 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
No doubt Cam's game will play out better in college than in the pros
A big reason for tis IMO is his speed WILL be neutralized to a great extent. Unlike Michael Vick, who can turn and accelerate on a dim, Newton can’t do this. He’s fast, but he’s a long strider and doesn’t accelerate that quickly; it takes him a few steps to get going. He won’t be able to elude defenses nearly as well in the pros.
I think he makes decent reads though, and his arm and accuracy are not bad. He might be able to shake of tackles and create plays with his size like Ben Rothlesberger. I donno, I’m not completely sold on Newton but I’m not unsold on him either. There’s risk with this pick, but there’s definitely a strong chance he’ll succeed. Hard to say.
There are impressive backs projected for the later rounds
Noel Devine, Demarco Murray, Ryan Williams, Shane Vareen, and more. Any of these guys would produce more as a running back by taking oline men in the first, and hopefully trading down for a second.
by Kellenman08 on Jan 29, 2011 10:19 AM EST via mobile reply actions
YES
This is what i’ve noticed. There’s about 15 runningbacks that all could get taken in the first 3 rounds. The third round is where the Dolphins will target a runningback, and rightfully so. Someone like Demarco Murray.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds great honestly
Demarco Murray is an excellent running back. I’ll be excited for whoever we get to tell you the truth.
by Kellenman08 on Jan 29, 2011 6:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
They have not addressed the QB position since 1983 – granted it didn’t need to be until 2000 but at some point they are going to have to puke up the picks/players to get someone back there that can play the position. Look what happened to Barry Sanders – one of the best ever on a team with no QB – couldn’t get a sniff of the playoffs; ended up quitting out of frustration. If they think Mallet, Gabbert, Newton or Locker is that guy then do what you have to in order to get him, don’t sit there hoping he will fall to you. I was hoping they would have taken Matt Ryan 3 years ago, nothing against Jake Long but how far have we gotten?
by FWE on Jan 29, 2011 10:48 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Couldn't agree more. Rec'd
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Rec as well
I agree with the Long statement however i don’t fault the Dolphins in any way for taking him. He was unquestionably the safer pick, and he’s an excellent player and Pro Bowler in his right.
Now, if TODAY we had the first overall pick and there was a choice between Andrew Luck and Jake Long, I would crucify the Dolphins if they didn’t take Luck. The reason being is that Luck was more of a blue chipper than Ryan and all things being equal, you take the sure QB over the sure OT.
Pretty sure Barry Sanders' offensive line was even worse than his QBs (and Erik Kramer was actually a pretty good starter)
I agree on our QB situation, but I think it’s stupid to look at a first-round-caliber QB as the answer just because he’s a first-round prospect. Now, if the guy has everything we’re looking for, then we should obviously nab him. If not, I would trade down and go BPA.
Mike Pouncey in 2011!
I've never won a Matty, so I'll give myself the "Classic Marino BALLS" award. Thanks to all who voted for me.
I've been trying to see what people think on this
Do you guys like the idea of trading back twice? I was thinking you trade back with Seattle to 25 and their 2nd round pick and then trade from 25 to another 2nd rounder with maybe a 3rd rounder.
The reason I think we should do this is because the skill gap for our positions (QB,WR,RB,OL) aren’t that large. I think that you can get almost the same talent with the 2nd and 3rd round picks. I think that is where this draft is loaded.
If we have 4 or 5 picks in the 2nd and 3rd we can go after backs like Daniel Thomas, Kendall Hunter, DeMarco Murray (really like him), Mikel Leshoure, and Ryan Williams. Then we could pair 2 of them up, use one of the second rounders on an o-lineman (Best one avail.) then use one on a speedy WR like Torrey Smith or Jerrigan or my favorite, Titus Young, who has been training with olympic sprinters lately.
We could come out of this draft with Daniel Thomas, Demarco Murray, Gabe Carimi or another o-lineman, and Titus Young. Just in the first 3 rounds. Sounds good to me.
I'd like to see them trade back as much as possible
Get a RB in free agency (I’m hoping to pair Sproles with either Ronnie or Ricky) grab a back in the later rounds like Hunter or Murray. Also agree need to take a shot on a speedy WR at some point.
We desperately need an o lineman or 2 and I’d like to see a safety drafted and a playmaking ILB to pair with Dansby and dump Crowder. Trade down from 15 and get more picks.
Knowing the Dolphins and their tendency for the boring pick, it will be OL. But after watching how bad they played as a unit this year, I can’t really disagree.
Couldn't agree more!
You are noticing the same things that I am about this year’s draft. I particularly liked one tidbit in your comment:
or my favorite, Titus Young, who has been training with olympic sprinters lately.
Where did you hear this? I’d love to read the article if you have a link! It’s things like this that indicate success. Leonard Hankerson training with private WR coaches, Matt Ryan studying elite quarterbacks in depth, Cortland Finnegan training with Darrelle Revis, etc.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Here;s the Article
The sprinter’s name is Maurice Greene, who won an olympic gold medal. Young is trying to get his 40 from 4.35 to the 4.2’s. I really like the dedication of this kid. Plus, he caught a pass of 49+ yards in 7 of Boise’s 13 games last season. I don’t even think we had one go for 50+ this year, unless Marlon Moore’s TD vs. Oakland did.
In fact Oakland has there eye's on the sprinter trust me!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Jan 29, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
Do you guys like the idea of trading back twice? I was thinking you trade back with Seattle to 25 and their 2nd round pick and then trade from 25 to another 2nd rounder with maybe a 3rd rounder.
The reason I think we should do this is because the skill gap for our positions (QB,WR,RB,OL) aren’t that large. I think that you can get almost the same talent with the 2nd and 3rd round picks. I think that is where this draft is loaded.
If we have 4 or 5 picks in the 2nd and 3rd we can go after backs like Daniel Thomas, Kendall Hunter, DeMarco Murray (really like him), Mikel Leshoure, and Ryan Williams. Then we could pair 2 of them up, use one of the second rounders on an o-lineman (Best one avail.) then use one on a speedy WR like Torrey Smith or Jerrigan or my favorite, Titus Young, who has been training with olympic sprinters lately.
We could come out of this draft with Daniel Thomas, Demarco Murray, Gabe Carimi or another o-lineman, and Titus Young. Just in the first 3 rounds. Sounds good to me.
I agree with this solution because I don’t think this draft has the breakaway players at the top. There’s a lots of very good players, and I too rather have as many pick we can muster in the first 3 or 4 rounds. You can add Jordan Todman, Colin Kaepernick, Andy Dalton, and some nice OL prospects in these rounds. Plus, every draft has a bunch of slightly undersized speed receivers that turn out nicely that nobody knows about. Mike Wallace, Hines Ward, Vincent Jackson, Pierre Garcon, Mario Manningham, Steve Smith, Jericho Cotchery, Greg Jennings and Brandon Lloyd come to mind.
The more picks the better this draft
anything sounds good to a bunch of people on the internet.i agree we need a rb to break tackles and run down the field .with out a oline he will churn his legs just to get out of the backfield. if we can atleast get a couple of key players in the draft to start right away
1.oline
2.rb
3wr
4.a fs who has speed and big play ability .
As with Nerwton being picked, I wouldn't complain, and I'd be moderately excited
but I wouldn’t do it myself.
You think Cleveland's cool? I've never heard anybody say "I'm going to Cleveland on vacation." What's so good about Cleveland?- Joakim Noah
Speed........
overrated.
work ethic, intelligence, vision, and agility……
these are the qualities that we need.
you guys go on and on about speedy receivers. We could stretch the field if we wanted to with our current batch of receivers.
good route running and intelligence balances the difference btw a 4.5 runner and a guy that can hit the 4.2-4.3 mark.
Our problem (not to beat a dead horse) is philosophy and coaching, which unfortunately (time will tell) may not have been adequately addressed this off-season.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree
Speed is a huge factor. All those things are very important that you mentioned but you need to have a few people, mainly on offense that can be a gamechanger and take it to the house. Look at Mike Wallace. Just for him being on the field defenses have to know where he is and usually double team him.
We were lacking speed this season and look what happens. We have one of the worst offenses in the league and we didn’t have a field strecher so safeties started creeping in, knowing we were going to just run intermediate and checkdown routes. I know, most of this is on the coordinator but to be honest he had no one to work with that he could trust running a fly route.
When you have guys that are just the qualities you mentioned defenses can usually match their intelligence and vision. Take a look at Darrelle Revis for an example. He can shut down any corner like a Hines Ward or any other good, hardworking, intelligent reciever because his defensive intelligence matches the offense’s. But what his one weakness is speed. Ted Ginn burned him on national television. And i heard he has a learning disability. Randy Moss burned him this season and caught a one handed pass on him. Mike Wallace should burned him in the AFC championship if it wasn’t for a bad pass. What I’m trying to get at is that you need speed. And that’s what were lacking and we aren’t going to be good until we draft some.
I say no to Ingram
not because he isn’t great…he is. But is he worth the extra picks we can get to fill other important needs? If we slide down and get a center like O’Dowd, a big fullback, and if FA is here, get a TE like Zack Miller, our running game will flourish. We need more picks!
Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
Hilliard=Hillis
Supposedly our O staff is “intrigued” with what Lex brings to the table. I’m hoping its more than just the tater tots he brings to the chow hall table, because we haven’t seen much. But the little we have seen, and his size makes me hopeful he can become a bigger part.
Would it be fair to also compare Ingram to Gore? I believe they are about the same size, and Gore has had a great career in SF, still going strong. (I’m surprised because I’m biased against guys who are under 220 as full time backs)
Rookie Dolphins Fan Dylan Luc, born Oct. 26th, 2010..........Doing my part to increase the fan base......
Offensive help
Please stop dreaming about DRAFTING OL help & start to get experience through FA.
Look at the picks we’ve wasted: Mormino, Murphy, Thomas, Gardner, Toldeo, Alabi, etc…
Since V. Carey, we’ve only kept 1 of10 draft picks we’ve used on OL – and only 2 of 19 since 2000.
I doubt ATL can sign ALL 3 of their OL free agents – keeping their right side in tact – LOG Blalock might be the odd man out – GET HIM!
ROG’s Chester (BAL) Lutui (AZ) and Joseph (TB) are starters who are FA. Dump Procter and use his $1.5 mil bench money to help sign those guys.
An OL with starting experience: Long, Blalock (ATL), Incognito, Chester (BAL) and Carey – that looks good!!
Go RB in the 1st. A great impact RB will help whoever is our QB, now AND in the future,
Look how the Colts and Saints production fell as their running games collapsed – and they have two of the best QBs around.
After CIN, TEN, SF, BUF, MIN, WASH fight for a top draft pick QB there may not be a strong QB option available worthy a 1st round pick.
Imagine Mark Ingram paired with either Jacobs or Bradshaw from the Giants as our backfield.
(Bradshaw’s the FA but Jacobs may have worn out his welcome with his attitude and antics because he lost his “starting” status)
Fix our OL. Reload our backfield. Dump Ronnie or sign & trade him for a pick while he still has value left. Pick up QB Stanzi or Kaepernick in 3rd.
A new RB tandem and an OL like that could even make Sparano’s kid look like a good QB!!!!
Your post is very misleading.
You are naming a bunch of failed draft prospects, but you’re not mentioning the fact that besides Jake Long, the Dolphins haven’t drafted an offensive lineman higher than the third round since Vernon Carey. Interestingly, Vernon Carey has been a tremendous player for the Dolphins. He was also a first round pick.
The Phinsiders that are proposing that the Dolphins draft offensive lineman are looking at guys like Mike Pouncey and Orlando Franklin. These guys are legitimate first and second round prospects. Don’t get me wrong, i’m not against improving the offensive line through free agency. But let’s be realistic, offensive lineman are historically some of the safest picks in the draft.
by vincemoss86 on Jan 29, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pouncey is a beast, so are Wisniewski and Franklin. And yes 1st round OL are usually safe picks. My point was that we’ve wasted plenty of draft picks on the OL regardless of where they were chosen. The best our OL in the last few years was when we brought in vets like Grove and Smiley…
When comparing a rookie OT like Franklin trying to learn the nuances of OG as opposed to someone like ATLs Blalock or Chester who have starting experience on a winning productive OL, I would rather go with experience and pick up the FA that has already passed the rookie learning curve. That free’s us up to get a skilled RB, WR or even QB that we desire with our picks.
Thats important with the FA RBs out there, like the guys mentioned above.
Williams has missed 13 of 32 games. M Bush best year was 655 in 3 years in OAK.
Thomas has missed 12 of 32 games and his best year was 793 in 2009 – only 50 more yds than Ronnie dismally ran this year..
Plus its a money thing:
ATLs starting LG Blalock makes the same as Jake Long’s backup Barbre ($467K vs $466K)
BALs starting RG Chester makes just a little more than Pat McQuistan ($561K vs $543K)
CARs starting C Kalil makes alomst half of what Berger makes ($510 vs. 1.02MIL)
And we pay benchguy Cory Procter $1.5 MIL.
We need to do better scouting and math when it comes to the OL.
That said I wouldn’t be disappointed with Wisniewski, Id just prefer more FA help than relying on the draft. Franklin is a reach at 15 since he’s projected 2nd /3rd. But he is improving quickly.
by millerlitedj on Jan 29, 2011 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Franklin is going to end up being a late first round/early second round prospect
We need to do better scouting and math when it comes to the OL.
Totally agreed. I wouldn’t mind Blalock from Atlanta, their line was a strength of the team this year. It seem slike Wisniewski is sliding because he’s not the greatest run blocker. However, alot of things can change between now and the draft.
One thing we do agree on: We need help on the offensive line!
Cap Space
This sound intreging but (there’s always a but), does anyone know how much cap space is available? This will be the problem getting FA’s. It doesn’t matter who is avaliable if you can’t afford them.
2011 Super bowl or bust!!!
J-E-S-T-S SUCK, SUCK, SUCK.
We still need speed....
How does ingram accomplish that? We need to trade down, take a good C like the Penn St or Wisonsin kids and get some draft picks to use on guys like Titus Young, Noel Devine, Kendall Hunter, Locke(Would be a perfect later round pick as a KR, PR, and 3rd down back), Ronald Johnson. We need speed. You’re all so concerned with how Henne never threw it downfield, who the hell was he throwing it down the field to? We dont have a single player who stretches the field. Can you at least give him some players to work with before we complain about Henne. Every play was seemed destined to make him look bad.
by josh111 on Jan 29, 2011 12:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
and if you want Kaepernick...
you’re retarded. The kid played in a gimmick offense at Nevada. He’s not going to run that offense in the NFL. NFL players are a little better on defense than some of the garbage in the WAC. Who wants to wait 3-4 more years to develop another QB anyway. If we’re doing that, at least do it for someone that’s further ahead.
by josh111 on Jan 29, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He is the hottest QB...
At the Senior Bowl so far.
none of the top QB's are seniors
except Locker
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
Mediocrity is no longer welcome in Miami
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jan 30, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think the issue with not taking Ingram in the first round is....
Who do we take?
This is a draft void of a large number of big names, and elite talent. I like Pouncey in the first, but even then, he may not be the stellar pulling guard we need, or is worthy of a first round pick.
At this point, I am leaning towards taking Ingram just because I don’t know who else to pick (and because his bandwagon is in my signature….)
****Keeper of the Phinsider Goo Cannon****
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Sept. 26, 2010 - Starting the 2011 Draft Mark Ingram Bandwagon and the 2012/2013 Draft Kyle Padron Bandwagon
question of the day
I will follow up that question with another about my opinion on an answer to todays question.Would you draft an offensive lineman with the very first pick in the nfl draft,I sure wouldnt.As far as drafting a RB with the first round pick if he is an impact player, I would .A player that plays as an individual in a team structure.A player that can score on one play from anywhere on the field even without good blocking.He dosent have to be the fastest on a clock but very fast in pads or strong enough or elusive enough to be able to make a play out of nothing.I think just like taking a RB a QB or a WR with a teams first pick and expecting him to be a star is very hard to accomplish,I also think that most of the big plays running backs make are ones in which the blocking was not very good.I think that most highly touted college players have dominated their peers up to now with their physical capabilities.When they move up to the pros everyone is on a level playing field (with some exceptions)and intangibles such as desire and work ethic help separate the outstanding from the average.Having written this I believe that the RB position is much easier to draft going on past accomplishments in college than say QBS,as this position is vastly more mental.I would draft phyicality(if their is such a word)over mentality at a lower level.Speed strength,quickness of which a RB should posses even to be a great college player.I would stick with Henne at QB and find a backup or starting QB in free agency as QB is harder to play mentally than RB.
I agree with you
I really think just go after most of our needs on the line except for maybe one in FA and also grab a TE. In the draft, the only RB worth taking at 15 is Mark Ingram and there is going to be no WRs worth taking there, either. Thats why we should trade back twice, grab 2 2nd rounders, 2 3rd rounders, and a 4th. Then we can grab 2 RBs like DeMarco Murray, Daniel Thomas, Titus Young, an o-lineman like Carimi and a LB or S
I agree with the need for speed.
But the need to refresh our running game is greater than a 3rd WR to compliment Bess and B Marsh. Those are good C’s you mention – but we don’t draft OL well & we can address the OL thru FA.
Kaepernick did play in a gimmick offense but is showing good signs at Senior Bowl
At 3rd, he could be an option to look at if we are looking for another QB.
Personally I like Stanzi better, but any QB in the 3rd is not instant starter
Who knew a kid named Flacco from Delaware would be such an impact right away.
Definitely a skill position though at 3. Be it a speedy WR, QB or whoever.
Another problem with drafting at 15 or lower
Is whoever they pick 75 percent of the people on here that are saying trade down will complain, we could have had so and so at 15 that was so dumb to trade down.
We need interior lineman on offense along with speed and if ronnie and rickie are gone we need a RB for the future, even if we rent a run down old back form the list someone posted.
So I think it will depend on what falls to us at 15,
We could use a TE also, maybe the Ravens will dump PITTA and we can pick him up. They have 4 TE.
There are so many holes they are going to have to be creative with the Draft and FA. One guy no one is mentioning is Robert Gallery from the Raiders is a FA and he is huge.
If FA is after the draft I think that screws us on both fronts.
First off we will have to go one way in the draft and then will have to over pay in FA to fill the holes we couldnt get in the draft.
The other way is they get the deal done, we sign FAs and they use the draft to fill holes. Either way its going to be tough, we are definately going to need to find some diamonds in the rough for next year.
i think we give hillard a chance..
He’s a good pass blocker and can catch the ball.. imho ronnie had struggles with his running style.. he would run straight ahead then try to bounce it outside.. with that you live and die from it.. and we died a lot this year.. hillard is a run u over kind of guy.. getting at least 3 or 4 yards with the most smallest of push from the line.. and he has had to progressed a little bit from being on the bench all this time.. and with korey sheets comming back he can be our speedy back.. so this way its a heck of a lot cheaper and we gwt what we want.. oh I want pouncey with the first pick..
by west coast phinfan on Jan 29, 2011 1:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I think
It would be badass to take a looksy at Herschel Walker. He supposedly still has a sub 4.0 40 yard dash and claims he’s in better shape now than he was back in his 20s. Looking at recent pictures of him before/during/after his MMA fight, who wouldn’t wanna give him a shot.
LOL, I’m half-jokin, but I’m half serious. $$$ is not a concern, he’s rich, he doesn’t care, he’d probably play for the league minimum. I just hope the CBA is reached so we have a 2011 season. If we’re crazy enough to throw CP10 back onto the field and watch him get taken out of the game after 2 hits, then I think it’s less of a risk to try-out HW. The man is a damn beast in a human body.
www.myspace.com/mulldozer
After The Combine
Mikel Leshoure will be the top rated running back.
Home run speed. Power. Ridiculously good hands.
He’s a game changer.
Sigh.
isnt he something?
One of my friends just cant understand why he isnt as highly rated as he feels as though he should be, and i understand that but heres why.
Pro scouts are concerned about 3 things. The first and most blatant thing his ability after contact, he tends to give in to tackles and not drive with his legs through tackles, some have perceived this to be “timidity” from contact. Brutal huh?. 2 is his vision, its good, not great, he tends to watch whats in front of him and not do a good job of feeling whats around him and downfield, and 3. is some have said he is alittle selfish, sometimes makes poor decisions and looks for the “homerun ball”
I watched a good bit of Illinois this season...
…and actually his running style reminds me a lot of early Ricky Williams. He does not shy from contact. Even on his highlights you’ll see him seek out defenders once the he realizes he doesn’t have enough room. Watch him take a screen pass and tell me he doesn’t have tremendous vision.
Mark Ingram has better vision but not by enough to warrant the differences in athleticism. The biggest knock I read about Leshoure from the mainstream media draft gurus is that he is somewhat unproven and that he played overweight his rookie season. Thus questioning his work ethic and character. Though if you watch and interview with the kid he is eloquent and football smart, something that speaks to a good character.
Basically they say that he has one really great season under his belt but they wonder if that was a fluke.
His 6.8 ypc his sophomore year kind of debunks that though. Seriously. Watch this (I realize it’s a splash tape) and look for the way he uses his vision and power as well as his niftiness and speed. This guy is the best RB in the draft.
Watch the run at 1:35 and tell me that doesn’t look like Ricky. Then watch all the leaps and big hits he takes when taking a pass. Not exactly selfish or “shy.”
Leshoure is the best RB in the draft. The question to me is that if he runs a flat 4.4 or near (or better) then he might not be around at 15.
Mikel Leshoure. That is all.
by The Phinisher on Jan 29, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Link Might Help: Lehoure 10min splash
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVgFcPDMQLQ
Mikel Leshoure. That is all.
by The Phinisher on Jan 29, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree Leshoure will be the No.1 RB prospect by the time April rolls around
I live in Illinois, so I pretty much had front-row seats for Leshoure every weekend.
Mike Pouncey in 2011!
I've never won a Matty, so I'll give myself the "Classic Marino BALLS" award. Thanks to all who voted for me.
Dolphins 1st round pick 2011 Draft
I would consider a QB, but still not 100% sure if one will be there that is worth it. I think an offensive linemen should be the most likely pick, besides Jake Long the line really needs an upgrade. I would look at the best center, guard or RT. This is a big reason why the Dolphins couldn’t get the running game going. Ingram doesn’t look that special or fast and seems to be a product of a great team and system in college.
Senior Bowl so far...
Locke and Matthews look like future Dolphins, Ponder looks better than Locker and Hankerson looks fast and strong definitely has game that could mesh with B-Marsh. Cam newton would be a great first pick if we get some weopons in later rounds
by dnarc13 on Jan 29, 2011 4:45 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'm a huge
Ponder fan, I would LOVE to grab this kid in the third (I think he is a second round talent). He is by far the best QB at the senior bowl this year IMHO
Go A's!!!
Ponder played well, and made a couple of plays with his feet
He has a quick release too, but his arm looked weak. There’s no questions it’s below NFL average arm strength (or maybe it was just a bad day). If he’s not super accurate with his passing, he’s gonna get picked in the NFL.
Ingram reminds me more of Ray Rice than Shuan Alexander.
I think he would be a great selection at #15.
IAMLEGEND
we definately either need to draft a center, or move incognito to center and draft a guard, pouncey comes to mind, i might snag him in the first. but i think we should look to trade down get some more draft pics. its a domino effect, get our o line in better shape, our running game will improve, the qb will not have to pass as often, and not have to worry about “carrying the offense”. oh by the way the wildcat is definatley not dead, but if you run it as little as we did , and they stack the box, of course its not gonna work. if you noticed late in the season when we did use the wild cat we did have some success with it . it wasnt called at the most appropriate times
ps
please please please please , dont go after cam newton, that would be a HUGE mistake
The right thing
The right thing for Miami to do long term is to use the first round pick to grab a quality QB – as a backup to Henne if he upgrades his performance and a replacement if he does not (note we will use FA to get a competitor QB anyway). Cam Newton would be good. Personally I would be fine with Ryan Mallet. But I think that with Ireland and Sparano under the pressure they are instead of doing the right thing long term they will do the expedient thing short term and go for a RB or speed WR/punt returner then use later picks for the OL. Personally I think with a better OL, more experience, a better QB coach and an OC who designs the offense to use his skills, Henne will work out. But because I know I might be wrong and because it is uncommon for a QB to make it through a season and be healthy for every game, I want to see a solid backup in development.
I saw two clips on Ponder's throws
One his deep past connect and one his touchdown throw. The former was underthrown badly, but Hankerson made the adjustment and catched it. The TD throw didnt have any zip on that. Unfortunately I missed most of the first half
I thought Von Miller looked REALLY good out there
He looked very very good.
It doesn't matter...
… the Dolphins are trading down to add a second round pick.
"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice
Draft an OL
I think that the fins should draft a OL or a quality QB (or not Jake Locker) there is plenty of quality OL from Wisconsin just to name a school with a couple of good players OL players.
OL
Seems to me the Phins are trading down again to pick up that 2nd rounder. I doubt Ingram will still be on the boards. Offensive line and speed has to be the priorities. They can resign Ronnie because he wants to stay a Dolphin. He had a down season, but he can easily bounce back at 29 years old. Deangelo Williams is an interesting RB also to look into. But with no OL the RB’s are going no where OK.
by Douglas M. Scalzo on Jan 29, 2011 7:58 PM EST reply actions
Farewell Ricky and Ronnie
Bottom line we have to improve. I’m sick of being the laughing stock of the league. One of our greatest players of all time jumped ship to our biggest rival due to our lack of winninig. I would like for nothing more than to have the Dolphins succeed and become a respectable team. If Tony and the gang feel as though Ingram improves our team and is a good fit then I’m all for it. And if we have to take a chance and sign guys like Randy Moss, Plaxico Burress, Lorenzo Neal or Vince Young, I’m all for it
by The Last Shall Become First on Jan 29, 2011 8:49 PM EST reply actions
BEST AVAILABLE
I think that we should take the best available player regardless of position that fills one of our many needs that was not addressed yet in free agency. If it happens to be Ingram, so be it.
It's essential to get that second-round pick back
And I like Ingram a lot, but I’d rather trade down, recoup the 2 and then get some BPA action going. Pouncey’s my guy, but I like him even more as a center than guard. And in terms of our picks, I think it’s possible the FO will trade one of the 80 DEs we have (and though I really like him, Randy Starks’ value just went up with that Pro Bowl nod). It’s just a thought, though …
Mike Pouncey in 2011!
I've never won a Matty, so I'll give myself the "Classic Marino BALLS" award. Thanks to all who voted for me.
Rather have Pouncy as G than C
Although he can play both positions, Incognito would be the better C. … Gators QB John Brantley had difficulty in the shotgun with Pouncy’s snaps. Hard to read a defense when you have to watch where the snap is going. he’s definitely a tick below his brother Maurkice.
You cant direct the wind but you sure can adjust the sails!
Be yourself. Everyone else seems to be taken anyhow.
Studies have shown that 23% of all institutionalized mental patients
are capable of living normal lives in a productive society.
The other 77% are Jets fans.
Good Post...but makes some assumptions
Here’s my thought. IF we keep our existing first round pick, then yes, Ingram makes sense. Not a QB. And you’re making the argument about his success based on last year’s O-Line…and we all know that O-line will be changed through the draft and FA, so you can’t hobble his potential success with last year’s O-Line.
I would like us to trade down, get Pouncy, play him wherever he’s best suited, and then draft another O-Line player in round 2. Spend Round 3/4 on a QB/RB, then fill out the other drafts with a TE and some O-line.
I’m looking at this year as the O-line rebuilding year….and then, once we get that sorted out, next year will be the RB/QB skill position draft…and somehow, we need to be able to figure out a way to draft Luck, withouth totally sucking this year!
For those of you who think we can just "pick up" a starting caliber NFL RB after the third, here is your wake up call.
Below is a list of all RBs taken in round 3 or after from 01 to 07, proven starting caliber guys in bold, the very few of them that there are;
James Jackson
Kevan Barlow
Heath Evans
Travis Minor
Rudi Johnson
George Layne
Moran Norris
Correll Buckhalter
Derrick Blaylock
Jameel Cook
Dee Brown
Dan Alexander
Lamar Gordon
Brian Westbrook
Jonathan Wells
Omar Easy
Travis Stephens
Kyle Johnson
Josh Scobey
Larry Ned
Adrian Peterson(Bears)
Brian Allen
Chester Taylor
Luke Staley
Antwoine Womack
Leonard Henry
Musa Smith
Chris Brown
Justin Fargas
Artose Pinner
Domanick Williams
Onterrio Smith
Quentin Griffin
Lee Suggs
LaBrandon Toefield
Brock Forsey
Ahmaad Galloway
Casey Moore
Mewelde Moore
Cedric Cobbs
Michael Turner
Thomas Tapeh
Troy Fleming
Adimchinobe Echemandu
Quincy Wilson
Casey Cramer
Derrick Ward
Bruce Perry
Brandon Miree
Frank Gore
Vernand Morency
Ryan Moats
Marion Barber
Brandon Jacobs
Ciatrick Fason
Manuel White
Alvin Pearman
Darren Sproles
Damien Nash
Justin Green
Cedric Houston
Tony Jackson
DeAndra Cobb
Nehemiah Broughton
Lionel Gates
Noah Herron
Madison Hedgecock
Brian Calhoun
Jerious Norwood
Michael Robinson
Garrett Mills
Leon Washington
P.J. Daniels
Jerome Harrison
Wali Lundy
J.D. Runnels
Cedric Humes
Quinton Ganther
Lorenzo Booker
Tony Hunt
Garrett Wolfe
Michael Bush
Antonio Pittman
Dwayne Wright
Kolby Smith
Thomas Clayton
Justise Hairston
DeShawn Wynn
Jason Snelling
Kenneth Darby
Ahmad Bradshaw
How many RBs do you have to pick before you finally get it right, or to put it more correctly, to get lucky, because that’s all it is, and I remind everyone that it has never worked out for the Miami Dolphins, we have never picked up a quality RB after round 3.
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010 former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
by uncle finster on Jan 30, 2011 11:36 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Finster
we finally agree again
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public opinion. ~Chinese Proverb
That's just as rare as a quality RB after round 3!
;^J
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010 former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
by uncle finster on Jan 30, 2011 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Good research and point made!
You cant direct the wind but you sure can adjust the sails!
Be yourself. Everyone else seems to be taken anyhow.
Studies have shown that 23% of all institutionalized mental patients
are capable of living normal lives in a productive society.
The other 77% are Jets fans.
Thanks,
it was a point that has been needing to be made, the fallacy out there that RBs are laying out there like ripe fruit ready to be picked after round 3 has gone viral and is completely unsubstantiated, if you NEED a RB, late rounds are NOT the way to go.
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010 former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
by uncle finster on Jan 30, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Well done bro!
Funny how some think it’s so easy to pick players. The percentages of actual roster makers goes down exponentially as the rounds get lower….
Rec’d
"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice
I was getting tired of the
“we don’t need to draft a RB in the first, we can pick one up in the later rounds” comments that have nothing to back them up besides the occasional late round gem, which you can get at any position.
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010 former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
by uncle finster on Jan 30, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
this is a very good point
how fast is leshore?
Dan Henning is the sole reason the dolphins aren't a Superbowl Caliber team.
GET PETE CARMICHAEL JR. FOR HC RIGHT NOW!
Having seen Mikel Leshoure...
..I’d rate him ahead of Ingram, but that’s just me….he’s a gamer.
You cant direct the wind but you sure can adjust the sails!
Be yourself. Everyone else seems to be taken anyhow.
Studies have shown that 23% of all institutionalized mental patients
are capable of living normal lives in a productive society.
The other 77% are Jets fans.
i like your word play
but i meant like actual projected 40 time
Dan Henning is the sole reason the dolphins aren't a Superbowl Caliber team.
GET PETE CARMICHAEL JR. FOR HC RIGHT NOW!
Right You Are
This shows why we draft Ingram should he fall to us. If we are going to develop a QB and the passing game we need a running game to take the pressure off. Could you imagine what it could have been if we had given Dan a real running game.
I wouldn't mind at all
But if you can somehow get Deangelo go for it. I’m sure the Giants sign Bradshaw. Michael Bush is slept on good. Thomas ain’t much
Wanna prove you are a true heatfan? Remind people you lived through the Mark Blount era
You never know
I realize most of my post this offseason have been negative. It’s true I’m disappointed in the coaching staff. But hey, maybe they will prove me wrong. I’d rather get a good young QB in the draft to try to get a long-term solution to the most important deficiency the fins have. I don’t think we will ever turn the corner until we address that problem. That being said, we also need a good young tough running back with speed. I would like to see them keep Rex and go after a running back through trade. Anyway, regardless of how much I bitch nothing would make me happier than to see the fins prove me wrong and have a great season next year. Either way, I’ll be rooting for them, but I reserve the right to vent if it looks like they are screwing up again.
correction
Sorry I hate the Jets more than anyone else so don’t read anything into my mistake of saying keep Rex. Of course I meant Lex.
by straighttalk on Jan 30, 2011 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Hating the Jets isnt an attitude.
It’s a lifestyle.
You cant direct the wind but you sure can adjust the sails!
Be yourself. Everyone else seems to be taken anyhow.
Studies have shown that 23% of all institutionalized mental patients
are capable of living normal lives in a productive society.
The other 77% are Jets fans.
by CanT0o on Jan 30, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Draft and Free Agent Needs
FREE AGENCY: I can’t believe I’m saying this but the first thing in free agency we need to do is get Vince Young. Yes he is immature, but he is a winner, especially when you have a line that gives up sacks. Most of the sacks were Henne’s fault but we need team speed and Vince Young will come cheap, we have nothing to lose by picking him up. Next get DeAngelo Williams. He has the breakaway speed we have been lacking for years. Finally, we need to get into the bidding for Vincent Jackson. To have him opposite of Brandon Marshall would give us a dominating receiving corps for a long time to come.
DRAFT: We need a QB of the future. If Cam Newton is still on the board at 15, we need to take him. If not we need the center from Florida, Pouncey, the brother of the Steelers all-pro center and from all reports he is better than his brother. That will sure up the middle of the line and keep Incognito at LG next to Jake Long. Running backs can be found later in the draft and we need one with speed and the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. Also we need to find a receiver with 4.3 speed to keep the defense honest and make some room for Marshall and the tight ends to work the middle of the field. Cam Newton will take a few years to learn the pro style offense but he has all of the tools and a good head on his shoulders. He has a strong work ethic and he can learn a lot from Chad Pennington.
What it comes down to is we need to increase our offensive team speed and our new offensive coordinator is willing to use a spread offense which will make it much easier for our receivers to find openings in the zone. This offseason is going to make or break us for the next several years. Our defense is young and strong and will only get better and we just need an offense to match!
Mike Pouncey
is not better at playing C than Maurkice is. ( i think that whats you were saying). Mike is an All-American RG who was moved to C after his bro went to the Steelers. I think we should draft Mike as a RG and let Incognito stay at C. that is if we decide to draft him.
I’m cool with us taking Ingram or trading down for Pouncey, either one would be OK in my book.
While the OL is a priority
lets not forget the defense. Another way to get more pics, assuming that FA will be available, is a trade. We should remember how many yards we gave up last season. If we could get Haloti Ngata, who is a beast…we could trade Soliai. After his strong year, we will be able to acquire a couple of good picks. Also, Soliai’s contract is up, so he will be demanding more money which we use for the Ngata upgrade. This would both strengthen the defense and give us more pics for offense.
Elevator smell different to midget. -Chinese Proverb
Why can't women put on mascara with their mouth closed?
I cant say with confidence that I know what direction we are going in come draft time
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
""It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress"
Well, share your shit man!!
"The Bitterness of poor quality remains, long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten."
"Koa Misi -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
"Are we not entertained?!" -- Russell Crowe ‘Gladiator’ voice
I got the Formula for Success!!!
Trade down from first rd pick 15 to the 20’s and select OG/C Pouncey. With newly acquired pick in 2nd rd take rb ( i would prefer ryan williams over any rb this yr or take demarco murray).Then titus young in 3rd. OTHER SCENARIO If neither are there in 2nd take austin pettis and then in 3rd rd take kendall hunter from ok st. We might be able to take two rbs after trading down. Then in Free agency go after either mankins or jahri evans. With that being said move john jerry back to natural ot spot on right. Front line of LONG POUNCEY INCOGNITO FA guard and jerry. We Be Set but its only my dream.
by Charlii Da Champ on Jan 31, 2011 12:59 AM EST reply actions
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