Dolphins vs Cowboys: Four things to watch for tonight
by Matty I on Sep 2, 2010 5:00 AM EDT
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PrintTo the casual football fan, the final game of the preseason probably doesn't mean much. After all, it's typically a game where starters play very little - if they play at all. For the most part, it's simply a game to help the coaching staff evaluate the very bottom of the roster and determine who the final handful of roster spots go to.
But if you're like me, then you are looking forward to watching some of these final roster battles play out tonight on the field in Dallas. Of course, after last week's disappointing performance by basically the entire Dolphins' team, there is another reason to watch tonight's game. That's where we will start off.
-The starters will see extended action tonight. Tony Sparano made that clear this week when he talked about how his football team "stunk" against the Falcons a week ago. But nobody - not even Sparano - knows how much action the starters will play (and if he does know, he isn't telling).
Though it's going to be important for the starters on both sides of the ball to perform much better tonight than they did a week ago, we should also be careful not to read too much into it. It's expected that most of Dallas' starters will not play much - if at all - tonight. Still, it would be nice to see a rhythm out of the first-team offense and some consistent pressure on the quarterback out of the first-team defense - especially considering that the Cowboys' offensive line has struggled mightily this preseason.
-The receiver competition comes to an end tonight. We know who the top three receivers are going to be - there's nothing to sort out there. But the final two spots remain open, though we can probably guess which two are the favorites to make the final 53.
Marlon Moore has made a steady ascension from undrafted free agent to likely number four receiver. Sparano, when asked about Moore, used a key word to show how far Moore has come. The word? "Consistent." That's how Sparano described the young receiver. And that tells me all I need to know. I think Moore is now a lock to make this team - meaning the final spot is between Patrick Turner and Roberto Wallace. Turner probably has the edge. But what if Wallace was to have a big game tonight? Could he steal that final receiver spot?
-Can the underdog lock up the final roster spot at inside linebacker? With Channing Crowder's health an obvious concern, the Dolphins have no choice but to carry four inside linebackers. Yes, I know the coaches have been working Charlie Anderson on the inside as well. But I can't see them feeling comfortable enough with Anderson being the lone backup inside backer until Crowder is fully healthy.
This roster spot was probably going to go to rookie A.J. Edds before he suffered a torn ACL during the first week of camp. His injury was supposed to open the door for either 2009 draft pick J.D. Folsom or 2010 seventh rounder Austin Spitler. But undrafted rookie Micah Johnson was signed just days after A.J.'s injury and he has outperformed both of the two Dolphin draft picks. He's shown a nose for the ball and has set himself apart from the competition. One more impressive showing out of Johnson tonight could be all he needs to make this team - an impressive feat for sure.
-Lots of "bubble players" will have one more chance to make a case for a roster spot. In my opinion, other than the previously mentioned WR and ILB positions, three other positions remain in question. Backup tackles Lydon Murtha and Andrew Gardner have both been unimpressive this preseason. If both struggle again tonight, the Dolphins could look to the waiver wire to find their backup tackle. Guard Cory Procter could also use a strong showing to lock up the roster spot now available along the interior line due to Nate Garner's season-ending injury.
Defensively, there are still tough decisions to be made along the line and in the secondary. How many defensive linemen will the Dolphins want to keep? Guys like Lionel Dotson, Ryan Baker, and even Charles Grant (who has played well but is owed more money than the others) might need strong showings to crack the final 53. Meanwhile, there's a good chance the Dolphins will keep six cornerbacks - at least until Will Allen is healthy enough to play. With Vontae Davis, Sean Smith, and Nolan Carroll essentially locks to make the team (along with Will, of course) two spots might still be up for grabs. Benny Sapp was acquired from Minnesota last week and probably has an inside track to one of those spots. The other favorite is probably Jason Allen, who is one of the best special teams players on the team. But Nate Ness has done enough to warrant serious consideration. However, he's probably still on the outside looking in and could really use one more solid performance if he wants to stick past the weekend.
Tonight's game should be fun. Be sure to come on by for our live game thread.
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I don't even want to contemplate Benny Sapp getting cut.
Which would mean Camarillo = nada.
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You said it!
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Would you rather keep a 29 year old career back up, or a young Nate Ness who HAS potential, because if we try to stash him on the PS it is more than likely he would get snatched.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
the guy who has actually played in the league
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And his career is coming to an end,
and he is still a back up, no upside, all downside.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that is an accurate description of Camarillo
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, lets see who's better for their respective teams at the end of the season.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊ Unofficial "avatar creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Mark my words.
Camarillo will have a career year with the Vikings. Then you will get a ton of “here we go again!”, “another Wes Welker!!”, sky is falling crap from these fans,
Dolphins and Gators baby!
I don't doubt he will
Considering Sidney Rice is out 10 games and with Percy Harvin’s migraines, they’ll probably want to lessen his work load. I can easily see Cam getting ~70 catches or so
"Every island has a beach and mine there will be called Beast Beach."
And they will be right.
It was a stupid trade, Coach had better hope Hartline tears it up, because if he doesn’t, the player evaluation of the FO is going to come under tremendous scrutiny.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊ Unofficial "avatar creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
How on earth was it a stupid trade.
How many possession WRs does this team need? We already have Bess who is just as good, if not better than Camarillo. Hartline has shown he has a better big play potential than Camarillo. Yes, the guy was great at catching the football. But he had too many things going against him; too small, too slow, Davone Bess (better at getting open), and Brandon Marshall (bigger version).
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Stupid trade because we gave up clutch for a backup
Sure Cam didn’t get yac. But he got the yards NEEDED every time. With clutch receptions. How do you give away a player like that? We are risking proven for potential. We gave up on the best hands in the LEAGUE. Don’t get it wrong. There is no WR out there with better hands than Cam. That’s not arguable. We gave up on Cam for Hartline and Turner. He’s better than those two. Moore maybe become better than Hartline and Turner. People said he was going to be the 4th WR with about 30 catches. ok, about 20 of those catches would of been for converting 3rd/4th downs to first. His # would of been called on game winning drives. That’s great production from a 4th wr. He was also the best player to backup any injuries. He was the Nate Garner of the WR core. We bit the apple on this one.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well said.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's be realistic here for a moment.
We traded a backup for a backup.
Clutch receptions? I think you meant to talk about Davone Bess as he was second in the league in on 3rd down receptions for first downs.
Best hands in the league? That’s debatable. Personally, I’ll give up a bit in hands if I get a huge boost in size and speed.
Who’s to say Benny Sapp won’t become our Nate Garner of the secondary? He can rush, seems decent in coverage, can play both slot and boundary corner, and plays ST.
I realize there may be some sentiment to him saving our 2007 season, but the bottom line is he was not going to be a significant contributor in the offense. You honestly believe he’s going to get targeted more on 3rd or 4th downs than Bess or Marshall? I’m sorry, it wasn’t going to happen. Which is why he was traded.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Sapp was toast last year and he's 29,
Ness has WAAAAAAAY more upside, the only way Sapp should make this team is if WA goes on IR.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊ Unofficial "avatar creator"
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BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
lol, that is definitely not what I've heard.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊ Unofficial "avatar creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
not all of them
I saw a few that were happy he was gone.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
may be true
but you if you look you can find some here who are happy that cam is gone…you always have exceptions to the rule…some of the most vocal are ususally in that group
I don’t think anyone is happy that cam is gone. Their view was he was next in time to get cut/traded. I think…But i get what ur saying
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Clutch receptions. Go back and look at last year 4th quarter drives. Cam # was called to keep the drive alive not Bess. Also Cam was playing hurt so Bess got more chances during the coarse of a game.
Best Hands in the league. Who has the least amount of drops? Cam
Benn Sap becoming the Nate Garner?? lol he’s a 29 year old journey man back-up his entire career for a reason. Stop drinking.
There is no sentiment for the 2007 season. It’s about what he can do now.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
^^ this
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
by MainePhinFan on Sep 2, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
How many TD's did Camarillo score last year?
That’s right…….0
Who has the least amount of drops? Well I could give you a list of every player last year that didn’t drop a pass, but you’ll simply state he wasn’t thrown at enough. So I’ll give you someone with better hands. Wes Welker. He was thrown at 149 times and caught 74.5% of them.
Back-up his entire career…..hmmmmm….isn’t that exactly what Garner is? I’m pretty sure there’s a reason for that as well. So, I’m not sure why you’re disputing the comparison.
So it’s all about what he can do now? Which is be a 4th string WR, that can’t stretch the field, isn’t big enough to get YAC, and if lucky would get maybe 30 catches. Sorry, you’re not selling him well enough to make this trade seem bad.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
He keep drives alive to let other get a chance to score TD’s.
umm two years over a 100 receptions combined. That’s a good stat to go by. Plus he went from catching butterflies to rockets. Not arguable
Garner is a backup with little or no fall off from the starter. He’s was also pushing for a starting role until his injury. Sapp is oh god cover your eyes because this could become ugly. Big difference
Your biting the apple, or not smart enough to understand what Cam really did. I’ll go with the first.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I know exactly what Cam did.
It’s you who is overstating his value.
Ok, we’ll just use his last two years (as though his first two years never happened). 105 catches, 2 TDs, with a 11.0 YPC. And this is supposed to make him look good? You’re not helping your cause here. Especially since there’s at least 50-60 WR in the league with more catches and TDs in the same span.
Little or no fall off from the starter…hmmmm. If that was the case, why did they go out and get a FA instead of just promoting him? And why is a rookie starting over him? I think there’s a bigger fall off than you think.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
His "value" is much more then a career backup who will not be on the team in 2 months give or take when Allen is back to full speed
So i believe it is you who does not get it here.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
Camarillo is a career back up.
The only reason he’s started is because of injuries and a crappy WR corp. He would be the 3rd or 4th string WR on most teams.
Here’s how I see it. They traded Camarillo because he had no value to them and they were about to dump him. They then got the news Will Allen is going to be down longer than expected. So they called around and found a team needing a WR that was willing to give up a serviceable DB/ST in return. Which was a better option than picking up some DB who was already released from a team that wouldn’t have been as good.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
why are you turning the conversation? We were debating best hands.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
There's no debate about that.
Wes Welker has better hands. I’d give you a larger list but I’m not paying profootballfocus for stats.
But that was just one aspect of the larger picture which was Camarillo’s value.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Yeah doesn't that suck
That was my favorite site for stats because you could really go in deep if you wanted to. You could break things down many different ways. I just saw it was a pay site as well as of yesterday. Damn near broke my heart!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn it! Well thats a bit of bad news.
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Bess was 2nd in the league at coverting 3rd downs throught the air.
Polite is pure gold in the running game, we will have no issues converting this season.
I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful.
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They were talking above that Sapp may not make it.. then Cam traded for nothing.
Thats the issues here. I personally believe trading Camarillo for a backup DB was STUPID. Wait another week and maybe find someone that slips through the cracks. A back up is a backup afterall. Trading away the best hands in the NFL was dumb. It will continue to be dumb and it will seem even dumber and the sting is going to hurt even more when Camarillo tears it up in week 2 against us. Can you imagine how sucky its gonna be seeing him getting clutch 3rd &’s over and over? its going to suck hard. All the while Sapp will be on the bench watching it suck. This was a STUPID move by this FO and who ever chose to do it needed a vacation to clear his head b4 he jumped at it.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
by MainePhinFan on Sep 2, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Camarillo may have been pushed off the roster by Moore anyway
At least we got SOMETHING instead of cutting him.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
if this Fo would rather keep Moore and Turner then Camarillo then they are plum dumb.
Neither Moore nor turner is a better weapon then Camarillo.
How many other players have looked good in Preseason only to fail hard over the years? Do I need to make a list?
Camarillo was a PROVEN QUALITY CLUTCH receiver. You do not get rid of that for a life long backup that will most likely not be on the team in 2 months.
If we got something of value then ok.. take a chance on it but Benny Sapp is not “value”
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
We gave away "clutch" for a position of need
Which in turn made room for our young players to make the roster who have more potential. Like it or not but the way Moore has played since arriving made Camarillo expendable
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Are you serious????
Camarillo is not that good. 113 catches and 4 TDs in 4 years!!!! That is not the stat line of a good WR. That is the stat line of a career back up.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
You should only count the years as a starter. That really skews the numbers.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you sure about that?
I can see taking away the first year, but the second year he played in 15 games. It’s his own fault he couldn’t beat out Ginn, Booker, and Chambers for playing time. Cause they were all so good right?
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Ouch! I believe that point stuck the target!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
and you would be wrong
Counting a year on the PS and counting a year when he’s behind working his way up the depth chart? come on. Thats lame.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Yet your not giving Hartline any credit for working his way up the depth chart quickly and earning reps?
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
lol circles again
What does that have to do with this? Do I have to give Hartline credit when defending cam? no. I’ve game him credit under other post BTW.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
given*
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
All these arguments are starting to run together
I’m done
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I really don't think he could play an entire year but maybe i'm looking into this to deep as well he's been here for us in case of an emergency so yea he will be missed at sum point. Who no's when or where but a fact is a fact.
& he was “BIG”
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Sapp=Ness?
I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful.
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M. The "Font" Nazi - Alpha6
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
The "pm striker king"- WZB OP "original" poster - Fr8Train The "reply" Nazi -Aplha6
^^ this
rec’d for those who are clueless
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
by MainePhinFan on Sep 2, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
All of that is conjecture
We have Marshall as our #1 third down target with Bess being second. I seriously doubt Henne gets to his third read and hits Camarillo’s for the 1st down.
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It will be a bad trade if we gave up clutch for nada.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
Why can't people see we didnt need him this year?
Marshall is the stud, Hartline and Bess are the solid (usually) sure handed receivers. We dont need the 29 year old WR who doesnt contribute to ST’s. We are lucky enough to be in a situation where we do have 2 maybe 3 young WR’s that warrant a roster spot based on their future potential
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't care if we needed him or not.
Personally I think he would have been useful to have on the team, but that’s nopt my point. I’m saying if you cut the player you traded for you’ve given a player away for nothing…that doesn’t seem like a good trade.
If Sapp gets cut, we might as well have traded Camarillo to Minny for the rights to Maty Tyler Moore.
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
*Mary* Tyler Moore
Favourite book: The Art of Warfield
Owner of the Running Shulas
Looking for a trailer hitch for my Bokamper.
If we cut him (which was becoming a possibly)
Then it wouldn’t have mattered anyway. At least we got SOMETHING!
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
The problem isn't if we needed him or not
It’s what we got from the trade. We feel we got robbed on this one.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
hey he had no ty's to this front office-ceya who's next. ronnie or ricky!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
ronnie
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
he tryed before the draft no taker's
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
lol I know
He was hurt at the time. oh well. There’s always next year.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
But Camarillo had ample chances to take Hartline's starting job in camp and couldn't do it
Sparano has said he’s going to play the best players. Aside from a few players (Marshall, Dansby, Long, etc.), TC has been open competition. Camarillo, our most reliable WR from last season, did nothing to distinguish himself or stand out as a starting WR. If Hartline was sucking in camp, then TS would have given someone else the chance.
So we have to look at the overall situation. Camarillo was at best our 4th WR. He could not beat out Hartline or Bess for their spots on the depth chart. He was getting pushed by a rookie undrafted FA. He was likely fighting for a roster spot. As far as his production, he got 73 targets last season as a starting WR. As a 4th WR, he was going to see that number significantly reduced. He would likely see 30-35 targets for about 20-25 catches. That’s not a great deal of production. However, he’ll either start or be the slot WR in Minnesota. He has one of the greatest QBs of all time throwing him the ball. His targets will go up and he’ll get more catches as result.
What we can’t do is look at the two situations as being equal. Camarillo will do more for Minnesota because he’ll get more opportunities. He wasn’t going to get 70 catches with us. He may have gotten 30 at most. His production with Minnesota will not equal what he would have done here.
As far as Hartline goes, the FO is putting their faith into a 2nd year WR. Hartline offers more athleticism and growth potential than Camarillo does. The future looks brighter with Hartline than with Camarillo. Even if they’re wrong about Hartline, then we’ll obtain a starting #2 WR either through FA or the draft. And for all we know, Marlon Moore may be the real deal and he could take the starting job someday. But Camarillo was not going to be much a factor this season with us.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Really - Coach always plays the BEST players ?
If that’s true – how did pat White EVER get on the field ? No – sometimes the coaches play the players they THINK have “upside” because they drafted them – and they do not want to look bad – its their EGO driving these decisions… I feel like Hartline will be a good WR – but he hasnt proven it yet either… Camarillo was a PROVEN WR – maybe not great – but next to Marshall – he would have been even better ! … and you’re also wrong – Camarillo would have been a factor for us this year – how can you say that ? He never dropped a pas last year – He has been a “factor” every year he was on this team… and he was 100% healthy from the injury. He will tear it up for the vikes – so dont come back later and give Farve all the credit.
40 Year FIN FAN
DRAFT a #1 WR now.........
Well said.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
yes well said
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
PW doesn't validate your argument
He was a rookie with no proven experience last year. He was not a starter and was only going to be used in specialty packages. Because of that, he got playing time to see just what he could do. In order for your argument to be valid in this case, White would have had to be the starter or projected starter. The number of snaps PW saw would never equal the number of snaps a slot WR or nickel CB in a season.
And Camarillo was 4th on the depth chart for Miami. What kind of impact was he going to have for us? How much PT was he going to see? He certainly wasn’t made a case to start in TC. He certainly wasn’t making a case to play the slot for us. Do you think Camarillo was going to get 73 targets again this year as a 2nd string guy? What does that mean for Marshall? I’m sorry, but I don’t Marshall to get paid $10M a year so Greg Camarillo can get his targets. Camarillo’s impact for the Vikings will be much greater because he’ll start if Harvin can’t and be the slot guy any other time. But if you, or anyone else, thinks that Camarillo will turn into a 100 catch, 1000+ yard guy, then you are being silly. And even if he does, then good for him. I’ll be happy for him. But he wouldn’t have done that for us.
As far as proven WR goes, look at these stats:
GC: 50 rec, 552 yards, 0 TDs, 11.0 YPC in 16 starts.
BH: 31 rec, 506 yards, 3 TDs, 16.3 YPC in 2 starts.
Camarillo had 19 more receptions (more opportunities of course), 46 more yards, 3 less TDs (4 if you count BH’s rushing TD) and 5.3 less yards than Hartline in 14 more starts. I think Hartline can produce equal or better stats than Camarillo if given more starts.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Porter before Wake? I was screaming at the coaches last year! Best players don’t always play for one reason or another.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Porter was the better all around LB last year.
You may not believe that, but it’s true.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
This is true.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
ehh. maybe so. but not by much. Wake was the better pass rusher by a mile. Porter was better in run and coverage. But he stunk it up there to.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
So he was better because.....
He came in during pass only situations with fresh legs and got 5.5 sacks?
When he racks up more than 9 sacks in a season playing every down, then I’ll believe he’s a better pass rusher. Until then you’re purely speculating.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Yes
Lets not argue the fresh legs thing. That’s kinda overrated especially for a player that was playing in a 18 game league and put up monster numbers. Skills got him there not fresh legs.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, mad CFL skills.
Cause what a player does in the pass happy CFL, always translates to production in the NFL. Just ask Raghib Ismail, Doug Flutie, and Joe Theismann. Or maybe the 1000’s of others that couldn’t even make it.
All he’s proven in the NFL is he’s a decent situational pass rusher. I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again. When he proves to be the monster pass rusher that many people here say that he is. I’ll give him his props. Until then he hasn’t proven anything.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
again I thought we were debating fresh legs. I was pointing out he has stamina and fresh legs had nothing to do with his pressure and sacks.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Which means you say his skills did.
So I debunked that theory based on past crossovers from the CFL.
I’d get into physiology and how a player who plays 60-70 plays isn’t going to be as effective as the player playing 10-20 plays, but that seems to be lost on you.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
no i understand your point
It’s a good one. But i don’t think it’s valid for Wake
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
none of you examples play defense
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Which only emphasizes my point.
You can’t find a single defensive player who played well in the CFL that had any success in the NFL.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Uhhh
Wasn’t one of the reasons why Porter is gone was because he wouldn’t get off the field when told so.
by Fin Fan Forever on Sep 2, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I said for one reason or another :)
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But doesnt that mean that the coaches wanted to play Wake
but Porter just stayed in. So why the yelling at the coaches?
by Fin Fan Forever on Sep 2, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Cause he's an egotistical asshole
good riddance
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah but Cam is a #2 or #3 at best
we have plenty of them, he was good , but we have good, and if we can get somebody that can help our team for him then its worth it. He is not Welker, and Wes is a true #2, Cam honestly a 3. Welker is Welker due to Moss, Welker would be Welker here with BM, Cam would never be that.his true spot is slot, and Bess is better at that than him.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!
No entirely true
Welker really isn’t a number 2. Welker is a slot receiver that no one can cover. His quickness allows him that instant seperation for Brady to hit on those short quick passes. His toughness and his running ability allow him to create good YAC.
When people think of #2 WR, they think of the second receiver lined up wide on the opposite side of the field from the #1. Welker rarely does that. He is usually in the slot and many times he is in motion.
Bess more closely resembles Welker for most of the reasons except the YACs. He finds a way to get open quickly off of the line. He doesn’t have the same success running the deeper routes that a #2 WR generally runs.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Welker is Brady's #2
He is the 2nd or even 1st target on nearly all of NE’s pass plays
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes because of his skills
But by position definitiion the number 2 general splits out wide. Welker is not effective out there. He is effective in the slot and in motion. Watch a Patriots game and count how many times he lines up in the number 2 position. Because if you are going off of how someone is targeted as an option….where does that leave someone like Dallas Clark or Tony Gonzalez as TEs? Essentially they would be number 2s right? Because behind Reggie Wayne and Roddy White, they are the next option. But they aren’t #2 WRs.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He was drafted because he could create plays.
when they gave him more than a couple snaps in a row, he did
I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful.
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And if Hartline isn't the answer??
Is it still a good trade?
Your putting an awful lot of faith in a guy who has all of 31 NFL catches and is this preseason having trouble just catching the ball.
They are putting all their eggs in one unproven basket, and that is stupid football IMO.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Ditto Finster....
Looked like to me that Hartline has played poorly in this preseason – …most of our WR’s have looked bad…. which scares me. What we really need next to marshall – is a guy who never drops the ball and gets MAX yards vs the single coverage…hummm sounds like Camarillo to me….sure one day I would love to have a #2 with Speed (ala Fitz-Bouldin combo)
40 Year FIN FAN
DRAFT a #1 WR now.........
Marshall has played poorly (by his standards) this preseason...
Would we bench him in favor of Camarillo?
Camarillo doesn’t get MAX yards vs. single coverage. Hartline had a 5.3 better YPC average than Camarillo. Camarillo only had 46 more yards on 19 more receptions. Hartline is bigger, faster, and younger than Camarillo. He’ll be a better deep threat than Camarillo.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
When a big reception was needed last year who did the Phins coaching staff put in?
It was Camarillo. In essentially a one man route with max protection against the Jets and Pats at home, Camarillo was picked to run the route. Both of those plays were the most important plays of the game. The coaching staff needed a WR to run the perfect route and have the confidence to catch a bullet from Henne. They chose Camarillo. That says something to me.
And at the time of the Pats game, late in the year, Camarillo was the 4th WR. Hartline and Bess were starting. Ginn was the deep threat #3. But when a catch needed to be made it was Camarillo’s number that was called.
I know what you are going to say, Marshall will be that guy this year. Maybe or maybe not. The defense now knows who the the #1 WR is for the Phins. I bet in key situations he will be getting a lot of attention, double coverage or bracket coverage. So then it falls on the #2 to beat one on one coverage and make a play. Last year that guy was Camarillo.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Camarillo was NEVER the #4 WR
Camarillo was the starter for all sixteen games and was the ONLY Dolphins WR to start all 16 games. Hartline only started 2 games: Jacksonville and the first NE game. Bess started one game all season. It was the second NE game and he had a career day. Ginn started 12 games. By that, it would seem that Ginn and Camarillo were the #1 and #2 guys for most of the season. And since Ginn was horribly unreliable and could not be counted on to consistently make plays, Camarillo became the #1 WR by default.
So the idea that Camarillo was somehow buried on the depth chart as the #4 guy simple isn’t correct. He was the go-to guy. Now we have Marshall to fill that role. I completely expect Henne to lean on Marshall when he needs a clutch reception on 3rd down. That’s why Marshall’s getting paid $10M a year. I don’t expect Hartline or Bess or whoever to be anything but a second option in those cases. But I also expect them to make the plays as well.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
^^ aaayup
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
Camarillo was the best of a bad WR core
Cleveland was the only team in the league last year that had a worse group than us
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
That was probably more a reflection of their QB situation.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Who has more drops this preseason?
Marshall or Hartline?
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
lol, the same.
but look at their production, Marshall has made plays, Hartline has not.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
But the point of people talking about drops is rediculous
Oh and what was the weather like in two of the games where both of them dropped alot of balls?
I will say it again. It is preseason!!! Everyone try that with me….start slowly….
P…….R…….E…….S…….E…….A…….S……..O……..N
Ok, now a little faster…..
P…R…E…S…E…A….S…O..N
Ok and now all together, say it normally!
PRESEASON
Very good folks…..I knew we coul do it!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Hartline doesn't have anything to lean back on,
he has to prove himself, why is it that Hartline doesn’t have to prove himself, I don’t get it, he has 31 catches in his career.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sure that he has proved himself.
He doesn’t need to prove anything to us until we are part of the coaching staff for the Dolphins. We don’t see what they see in all other areas of practice and the game.
I guarantee you that Sparano and company wouldn’t have just “given” that position up to someone who hasn’t earned it.
The difference is what we consider “earning” it and the coaches definition of “earning” it are drastically different. That’s probably the reason that they are PROFESSIONAL and we are FANS.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
IOW,
fans can’t have opinions?
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanx for clearing that up.
;^J
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊ Unofficial "avatar creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Preseason with all your starters in is.. well.. your starting offense
Ill say it slow your you..
S…..T…..A….R…..T…..I…..N…..G…..O….F….F….E….N…..S…..E….
weather it is pre season or not.. its your starting offense.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
So the Lions and Bills have top 10 offenses?
Cleveland, Oakland, Jacksonville all have better offenses then Minnesota, Indy, SD, and NE? And Dallas has the worse offense in the NFL?
by Fin Fan Forever on Sep 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you
And the Colts starting offense has really sucked over the last 6 preseasons right?
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
So what's the excuse for Marshall?
Our supposed #1, arguably in the top 3 WRs in the league, has dropped the same number of passes as our second year “boarderline” player that hasn’t proven anything!
Where is the critics for him? They aren’t worried right? Why?
BECAUSE ITS PRESEASON!!!!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he's proven
Hartline isn’t yet.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmmm.....
So you’re saying we should have put our faith into the guy who has 113 catches in 4 years? Who also only scored 4 TDs in those 4 years. Hartline had 3 last year. That alone makes me more comfortable with him in the lineup than Camarillo.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Cammarillo has played 1 preseason game for Minn,
and he doesn’t know the playbook, but he has better PRESEASON stats in one game than Hartline.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And Hartline has only one season
And only has one less TD than Camarillo has in 4 seasons.
Next…….
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And that proves what?
Who else was Minn going to throw the ball to? What are those “amazing” 4 catches going to mean come regular season going to mean? NOTHING.
And really, when a team runs a typical preseason offense, how hard is it to know the playbook.
Brett calls the play….Cammy says, whats that again? Other WR says Dude, just run a :“insert route here” and if you are open, he will hit you. WRs don’t have a real big learning curve in most offenses…..unless you are talking about moving into a precision based “West Coast” style offense.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If it is soooo easy,
why isn’t Hartline doing it?
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
◊◊◊ Marshall/Bess>Moss/Welker ◊◊◊ Unofficial "avatar creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I am truely hoping that Hartline is the answer.. I laid allota eggs on the kid.
And if he is not I would rather have Camarillo sitting and waiting to take his job! The Camarillo trade was stupid.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
And Cam was the answer to our franchise as a number 2?
???
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you keep changing it!!!!!
He is a PROVEN RELIABLE WR, thats all of our point, why give away a quality WR when you don’t have to, what if someone gets injured, what if Hartline has a sophmore slump, Cam was CHEAP insurance, Sapp is an almost washed up never was who is completely useless if WA comes back.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
lots of IF's in that comment..
what if Will Allen doesn’t come back? What if Hartline emerges as a quality #2 with more playing time. What if Marlon Moore earns his spot as the #4/playmaker? If all my IF’s happen, we are gonna need Sapp a HELL of a lot more than we would need Camarillo. I have a feeling these are the scenarios (along with Bess being predictably good in those aforementioned clutch situations) our FO was thinking when they dealt Camarillo for Sapp.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Sep 3, 2010 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd love to debate this with you Nickster, and I will below, :>)
but I was replying to the
And Cam was the answer to our franchise as a number 2?comment, and that ridiculous exaggeration of a point is unnecessary and annoying in a discussion.
???
But I will say that I plan for the worst, not for the best, iow, imo, you can’t use “what if a guy plays well” philosophy when building your team, that is what you HOPE for, but you should have a back up plan in case it doesn’t happen.
If we have VD, SS, WA, NC, JA and NN we will be fine, Sapp isn’t going to add any type of impact, he is a stop gap player, NN and NC have WAY more potential, because Sapp doesn’t have any potential, he is what he is and his career is about over.
I know our secondary isn’t inspiring right now, but he isn’t going to improve it significantly because the bottom line is, that he is a nickleback who you would rather not have to play, he was their Jason Allen in a way.
Marlon Moore may make this a moot point but still, Sapp ain’t the answer, lol
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
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by uncle finster on Sep 4, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
ZOMG
We traded our fourth WR!!! We’re doomed. How will we ever recover from such a massive blow!!! Our secondary is just soooooo strong and deep. There’s soooo much veteran experience up there.
This conversation is compete idiocy. Hartline isn’t even a main factor, Brandon-fucking-Marshall is. You want a third down, lob it to Bess. And aside from preseason drops, which every single receiver on the team seems to be doing, you still have zero reason to show such disdain for Hartline. How many teams have collapsed, and the analyst is saying “Well, it was definitely trading their 4th string WR that did them in.”
Camarillo is not a 4th string receiver.
So using that as your argument is complete idiocy. Plus maybe if we got someone or something of VALUE for Camarillo I wouldnt be so depressed about the trade.
The fact is we got rid of a productive clutch receiver for a bench warmer. And even if Camarillo only played in 4 wide sets (which I doubt) it woulda been better to have him as a “just in case” and/or 4th receiver then benny Sapp who will never be anything more then a backup player. When Allen is back Sapp will be gone and we will have traded Camarillo for nothing. Zero.. ZILTCH.. NADA..
Please tell me how giving away a solid productive CLUTCH receiver for nothing is or will ever be a good decision?
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
Camarillo was 100% penciled in as the 4th WR. Coaches physically said that Hartline is the #2, and are you telling me you'd rather have Camarillo than Bess?
No disputing that. Whether you wanted that, or agreed with it has no bearing on this debate. You really trust Carroll as a rookie to hold down the middle? Do you not remember last year? I’m pretty sure Mister Sparano would like to keep his job, and avoid another 7-9 year.
And on this team, Sapp will probably see more snaps than Camarillo would have. I hope Cam has a good year in Minnesota, and I expect him to, but once the rest of the Vikes get healthy, don’t be surprised to see him riding pine up there, or get cut. That we got ANYTHING of value, as opposed to just cutting Camarillo, was a good trade.
This^^^
At NO point during training camp was it ever reported that Hartline or Bess were in danger of losing their jobs to Camarillo. And we know he wasn’t taking Marshall’s. Cam had his chance to get the #2 or #3 spot and didn’t do it. Therefore he was the #4 WR.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Camarillo was struggling to hold of Moore and Turner
let alone compete for a starting WR position. I dont get the argument. Sapp will be playing nickel for us for at least half the year while Cam would have barely seen the field
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
He was a starting WR last year, but #4 this season. Hartline and Bess surpassed him and he didn’t challenge them enough to win his spot back. Everyone is talking about how clutch he was, but they fail to see that he won’t get near the PT and targets he saw last season. The go-to targets that Camarillo saw will now go to Marshall.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
I’ve argued Cam is the best filler if an injury were to happen. Do we thing all our guys are going to be healthy by season end?
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Who do we think has a BETTER chance of being healthy?
Will Allen, who is already injured.. or Brian Hartline, who is 24 and has logged 1 season total? I think they have more faith in our 3rd WR (Bess is #2 even if he’s in the slot ala Welker) staying healthy and productive than they do in our 3rd CB (Allen). Trading Camarillo for Sapp gives us equal depth at each position, without weakening our WR corps at all IMO.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Sep 3, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Wait....isn't Nolan the "Genius" that everyone says he is?
Don’t you think that they might have asked him…..Hey Mike, take a look at the film on this guy and tell me if you think you can use him to his strengths??
Think maybe the mastermind as so many of you have called him, can figure out how to make him decent?
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Who said we were doomed,
all i said was the trade was stupid IMO, if you think that makes me an idiot so be it, thanx for the input.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree earl
Laces out!
-2008 AFC East Champions-
Suck it Pats, Bills and most of all... the god damn jets.
Sean Smith/Vontae Davis= Pat Surtain/Sam Madison
BRANDON MARSHALL- FUTURE MIAMI HOF WR!!!!!
Cam went to a better passing team
Now before you smash this think, Farve, or Henne. Then think Rice, yes he is out but he is on the team and will be back, Harvin,Berrian,and that TE however you want to spell it Shinotce “whatever”. Now our WR core is almost as good, just not quite there.Yes Farve can sling it and takes alot of risks but he is still one of the greats, Henne not yet. Cam will have a great year no doubt,and it will be better than it would have been here, But he still is what he is, a number 2 or 3 and a soild one at that , but we have plenty of them.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Camarillo did not want to go.. sure he may be happy later on cus he may well be in the playoffs and have a real good season..
But he did not want to go and made it clear he was unhappy about it.. If you read between the lines.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
this is true
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel bad for the millionaire who plays a game for a living
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I am sure he does
And while all of us are going to miss him, that’s the way the game is played unless you have a no trade clause. In that case, it looked like he was going to get cut anyways.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
its not like we traded him to the freaken rams
we hooked Cam up with a good team were he will get more chances to catch the ball
LETS GO HEAT!!!!!!!
Joel Anthony is the man
Henne please don't be good be Great
doesnt ness play safety too?
If he does might have a shot at culvers spot. position flexability is very important to FO and if he can play CB and S then more valuable than Tyrone.
Imma let you finish...
BUT TYRONE CULVER IS THE BEST SAFETY OF ALL TIME
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol
"My ego is not that big. . . . I just want to win." - Dwyane Wade
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by Davone_Is_BessT on Sep 2, 2010 5:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It was a stupid trade....
BECAUSE Camarillo was worth more than a below average backup CB……….that’s why !Even as a “possession” WR he was worth a lot more…… How many drives did he keep alive with his clutch 3rd down play ? Are we SURE that Hartline & Bess will be AS GOOD on 3rd down ? give me a guy who never dropped a PASS any day of the week.
I understand we needed help at CB (badly) we just didnt get equal value – draft pick would have been better… SAPP looks weak to me.
And Yes – I am one of “those” fans – but not the sky is falling… I just call out the stupid coaching/FO mistakes when I see them… this was one. Camarillo was a warrior – Bess is younger – but not as tough, crafty, or even faster. I would have kept them both – Kept Marlon Moore and sent P. Turner to the minors……
40 Year FIN FAN
DRAFT a #1 WR now.........
I agree and disagree...
I agree with what we got in the trade. I was hoping we could get some picks from Minnesota. However, Sapp does fill a huge need. He’s not great as a starter, but he’s decent as a nickel corner. Carroll isn’t ready to take the nickel spot yet and JA just can’t play nickel effectively. Ness is an unknown commodity, and we don’t really know when or if WA will come back. Sapp is a good ST player, so he offers value there as well.
I disagree about his value to both our team and other teams. Dolphins fans love Camarillo because he saved the 2007 season, and the butt catch. Yes, he made some key 3rd down receptions a few times. But he was buried on our depth chart. He wasn’t even close to challenging Hartline or Bess for their positions. And he was getting pushed by Marlon Moore on the depth chart. For all we know, Moore might have taken the 4th spot from him anyway. Camarillo was valuable to the fans because of sentimental reasons. But he wasn’t that valuable overall to the team. If he was, then we wouldn’t have shipped him off.
Plus most fans are overvaluing Camarillo because he played for our team. He wouldn’t start on most teams. He’d likely be a 3rd or 4th WR on most teams. All in all, he was just an average WR in the NFL.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
I have to agree with Earl on this one...
Not saying we got a steal on the trade, but we did trade our 4th, possibly 5th wide receiver for a corner who can come in and play the Nickel spot. He can contribute on special teams too so its a win there. The trade is done with and I’m sure we will get a good look at Benny tonight seeming as Dallas will be running 3 and 4 wide formations pretty often.
Bold Pat White Prediction: 500 Yds Rushing, 300 Yds Passing, 3 Touchdowns
Driver of the "DRAFT RAS-I DOWLING IN 2011" bandwagon!!!
Not only that
But Lou said that Camarillo was better on 3rd down. Based on what? Bess had the 2nd most 3rd down receptions in the league. By my account that would mean that there was only 1 WR in the entire league that was a better 3rd down WR. I am pretty sure that it wasn’t Cammy.
I agree completely with Earl on the reasons that Miami fans are truly unhappy about the trade. It isn’t that the production can’t be made up for by the other players (and lets be honest, how many throws do you think Cammy would have gotten with BM on the team this year) and it wasn’t for his big play ability despite the play in 2007. It is the sentimental reasons.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe Steve Smith (NYG) was first
by Fin Fan Forever on Sep 2, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you are correct....
But the point was it wasn’t Cammy….and we have the #2 still on our roster. Even though there were points last year where certain people on this site were screaming for Bess to be benched. Think we suffer from CLS?? Just a little??
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You dont remember how bad Bess started the year
He couldn’t catch anything and was fumbling every game.
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I have ZERO sentimental resons to love Camarillo. He did his JOB thats all. It was 100% luck that we were in OT that game. It was luck that the other team did not cover well on that play.
Cam did nothing unbelievable.. he did his job.. ran his route and caught the ball. He then ran for a td. Nothing more.. nothing less. its not like he put up KILLER numbers that season.
His body of work is what makes me realize he is worth more then any “benny sapp’s” if we got something of value for Camarillo I wouldnt be as upset but the facts are we got nothing of true value in this trade. When Allen is back we will not keep Sapp over the younger guys we have. So we traded Camarillo for a bandade for a few months. Not a good trade in my book.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
I agree the value for this trade was not there at all. This was a bad bad move.
We were we so desparate when it should have been the Vikings needing this deal? If the FO would have asked for a pick for Camarillo we could have received a possible 4th Round pick. Benny Sapp might be worth a 7th- if he didn’t get cut. Not sure who thought this was a good trade and why? The Vikes were desperate and the FO should have known that. Would that cheater Belichek make this deal? Uhhh.. Probably not. I understand how badly we need secondary help but the Phins should have received a pick as well. I hate when they create holes on the team for no good reason. Camarillo was a good player who stepped in nicely when Bess or Hartline were having off games.
That's laughable
no way we would have gotten a 4th for Camarillo. It was a late 5th or 6th at best. Is that pick really worth more than a reliable nickel corner? Nope
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
It is when you have Will Allen who will be back soon and then the "reliable nickle corner nammed sapp" will be released. Yes cam is worth more then that.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
being that Cam was traded
we were probably going to release,cut, or trade him anyways. He is no better than anybody we have now, ok maybe Tunner but we dont know he hasnt played yet. If the FO thought so highly of him, he would still be here. They will not trade somebody they need, that more of Jimmy Johnsons moves, he will do it if your name is Herchel Walker, but look what he got in return.So I like Cam, but if he was as good as we all made him out to be , he would still be here!!
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Sapp stays on the team longer then Jason Allen
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
^^ boooyaaa
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
Sign me up for the "Wallace Bandwagon"... over Turner any day.
Your logic contradicts –
SAPP = 7 veteran older player without much upside – we benched Carroll (young player with a LOT of upside in favor of him …
then you say the opposite with Camarillo and hartline ?
Now hartline is much better than SAPP – but really my point is still there.
By your logic we should play the young guy – over SAPP becuase of the upside – like you would do with hartline.
dont get me wrong – I am a FAN of Hartline – and IF we had decent value for Camarillo I could take this trade better….SAPP was poor value.
Wouldnt be surprised to see us pick up another CB after the cuts or OT….
40 Year FIN FAN
DRAFT a #1 WR now.........
Welcome aboard the Wallace bandwagon (while it lasts)
My logic is not contradictory however. Carroll is a rookie, therefore he has NO proven NFL experience. Hartline is a second year player with 31 receptions, 503 yards, and 3 TDs. He averaged 16.3 YPC. Therefore he has SOME proven NFL experience.
Here’s the problem with your reasoning: Will Allen. Will Allen was the nickel starter before Carroll was. He was the best CB on the team last year and was going to be the nickel guy this season. He’ll be the nickel CB when he returns. Carroll has the upside and stuff, but has struggled so far. He was thought to be the best option when Allen went out, but struggled. And since he isn’t a PROVEN NFL player yet, then we needed a proven player at that position.
Hartline put up the above listed stats as a rookie in 2 starts. Camarillo had 50 receptions, 552 yards, and 0 TDs in 16 starts. It only seems reasonable to assume that Hartline can put up equal stats to Camarillo, if not better stats, in a full season as starter. Plus he found the endzone 3 times to Greg’s zero. I’d take those TDs any day over a few 3rd down receptions.
Put I do agree that Sapp was less than equal value. But that’s probably all the FO could get for GC.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
this^
There is no question why we traded for Benny Sapp. Caroll was good in practice and all but in live competition he couldnt have been more lost. Sapp is the stop gap veteran until/if Will Allen gets back
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm still mad about how do you give up an out route on the goal line when an all out blitz is called
That has pick 6 written all over it if the corner is any good whatsoever
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Win or Lose. I just want a consistent well played game tonight.
This includes the HC and Coordinators. Offensively with all of weapons, we should be a beast every game and put up a lot of points on the scoreboard. This team can’t afford to come out again tonight and play another uninspired game. The half hearted effort, dumb penalties, blown assignments and poor play from the Offensive line need to end tonight. Come on guys turn it on because even though it’s preseason you guys need to develop an ability to consistently play at a high level. The season is right around the corner.
camarillo on his way out regardless
I think it is obvious that the FO was gonna cut camarillo or have to decide to keep him and then lose a promising young talent. If one of these young kids was cut and turns out to be great then we would be saying we should of never cut em. i believe that GC was on his way out so I say BRAVO for the front office to get us a special teamer like sapp cause we needed that. I think the defense was tired of starting at the 35. and did anyone see that game last week? i thought sapp had a nice ST tackle
is Pat White gonna play tonight?
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""It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress"
I would imagine so, Thigpen or Pennington will get the majority of the time...
they’ve gotta set the hook on some trades…
Bold Pat White Prediction: 500 Yds Rushing, 300 Yds Passing, 3 Touchdowns
Driver of the "DRAFT RAS-I DOWLING IN 2011" bandwagon!!!
Keep the hope alive Heater
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we start handing out tissues for all the whining and crying around here?
Cam is gone Sapp is here. All the crying in the world isn’t gonna change it. IMO the trade was a good one considering this season. We need help on special teams. We need help in the secondary. We have a bunch of capable recievers without Cam. The move was warranted and has improved our team. No reason to cry over this it made our team better!
You monster!
You have no feelings at all… waaaaaaaa
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
ya every one says its a good trade till hartline drops that 3rd and 3 that kills our drive
earl i know you said you like those touch downs over 3rd down conv. but the thing is, you dont get touch downs without first completing 3rd downs. ill take a guy who catches the ball and makes plays to save our drive any day… every one thinks cam stinks until we dont get a 3rd down, and our drives stall and were kicking FG and losing games.
No one says we have to go to Hartline on 3rd and 3
That’s a Bess situation. He was our 3rd-down monster (other than Lou) last year, and I’d say if not Bess, Marshall.
"Every island has a beach and mine there will be called Beast Beach."
Marshall, Hartline, Bess, and Fasano...
With ricky in the backfield they will have ample opportunities to prove they can make plays on third down. Moore and Wallace have proven they can play its just deciding who we want as our 5th even if we keep a 5th. This is not even taking into account that we have Martin back and healthy. He’s pretty clutch himself. When you look at our opportunities on offense now, Cam doomed himself when he didn’t stand out in camp.
Bold Pat White Prediction: 500 Yds Rushing, 300 Yds Passing, 3 Touchdowns
Driver of the "DRAFT RAS-I DOWLING IN 2011" bandwagon!!!
by Heater OsE on Sep 2, 2010 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
no he doomed himself when he pulled his hammy
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll console myself when Moore is dancing in the endzone after a 60 yd. td
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wana place a bet on that one? It wont be this season.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
I just might
Moore is our only deep threat WR. With our running game and the attention that Marshall commands teams will be ripe for the big play. Moore is the only guy on our roster that can get behind a defense
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I get your argument but...
If Cam wasn’t going to be on the field anyway, how does he make that catch to keep the drive alive. In all likelihood, the receivers on a play like that are going to be Marshall, Harline and Bess and in all honesty, probably Fasano. How many four receiver sets did the Dolphins run last year (serious question) because I don’t remember them that often. In actuality, Cam was going to be the fourth receiver, whether you think he’s better than Hartline or Bess or whomever else. That’s the way the coaching staff had it.
^^YUP^^ Cokes
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Lol; possition reciver is the good's, ask cuttler of the bear's?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
Lol; possition reciver is the good's, ask cuttler of the bear's?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
OK... Here's how I feel about the Camarillo trade
People keep saying how we traded a clutch and reliable WR for a backup CB. That’s not how I see it. We traded Greg Camarillo for Brandon Marshall!
The facts show that Camarillo was a starter all season and was the ONLY WR to start all sixteen games. He wasn’t a #4 guy or a backup last season, he was THE STARTER! He was paired with Ginn for 3/4 of the starts. We all know just how unreliable Ginn was. Camarillo was the #1 WR for the Dolphins last season. Allow me to repeat that: GREG CAMARILLO WAS THE #1 WIDE RECEIVER FOR THE 2009 MIAMI DOLPHINS! You can say Ginn was, but the truth is no one feared Ginn except on the deep stuff. They knew he had stone hands and feared contact. You could not rely on him to make plays. A #1 WR is the go-to guy and who you expect to make plays. That was Greg Camarillo.
So this offseason, we bring in Brandon Marshall. He’s a proven Pro Bowl caliber WR that does nothing but makes plays all games long. He has 3 consecutive seasons of over 100 receptions and 1000 yards. He’s only the 5th player in NFL history to do that. He’s 6’4" 230 pounds that can run over you, through you, around you, and if you hesitate, he’ll run by you. He’s 26 years old and in the prime of his career. He’s proven he can score from anywhere. He has been a go-to guy for three straight seasons.
So when we brought in Marshall, he AUTOMATICALLY became the go-to guy, the clutch guy, the play making guy, the 3rd down guy, the red zone guy, the touchdown guy, the double team guy, the pick-up-the-1st-down guy, and every other thing you want in a #1 WR. He instantly became the #1 guy, meaning every one else was at least 2nd place.
So that means we are now looking for a complement to him. Hartline is the best option to be a #2 WR that we have right now. Like it or not, he’s it. He’s got better speed than Camarillo. He’s taller than Camarillo. His future is brighter than Camarillo’s. Bess is the slot guy. He’s locked at #3.
Therefore, Camarillo went from being the #1 WR to #4 WR in one offseason. He couldn’t pass Hartline or Bess on the depth chart in camp. He wasn’t injured the whole time, so he had his chance. Had he stuck with the team this season, he likely wouldn’t be back next year. Either Hartline will be the answer at #2 or he won’t. But if he isn’t, the we would have gone looking for a #2 WR in the draft or through FA.
Camarillo is now on a team that will use him much more than he would have been used here. He’s going to put up stats with Minnesota. He’ll either start or play slot. In any case, his targets have just increased and therefore so did his numbers. But that DOES NOT signify that he would have done the same thing here. We have a different offense with different philosophies.
So the way I see it, Camarillo was replaced by Brandon Marshall. Marshall will be expected to do everything that Camarillo did and more. That’s why he’s being paid $10M a year. Benny Sapp was just a throw-in.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
by The Earl on Sep 2, 2010 1:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yup!
Also he was probably gone after this year anyway.
by Fin Fan Forever on Sep 2, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Very good assessment
I couldn’t agree more. I love Camarillo too, and I wish we could have gotten more for him than just Benny Sapp, but he no longer had a spot on this team. If we need a clutch guy to convert for first downs, we’ve got Bess for that. If we need a strong, physical guy we can look to Hartline. For speed, Marlon Moore looks promising. Oh yeah, and Marshall fits all those qualities to boot as well.
Camarillo didn’t have a role on this team – it’s nothing against him as a player, it’s just that we already have the pieces and he’s not part of that. What the FO did was get SOME kind of a reward for him rather than just having to release him.
"Every island has a beach and mine there will be called Beast Beach."
AHHHH THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!!
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Done talking about Camarillo
Micah Johnson is quite the beast
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
Cus your argumenrt is weak? I understand.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
Ok, I just want to know:
Why would you have kept Camarillo?
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Because the ONLY think he can do, that Hartline and Bess can't do
IS catch a pass with his ass! Sing it now…..Cammy can…catch a pass with his ass!!!
Boom…shakka lakka….BOOM!!!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on in now chorus!!
Cammy can….catch a pass with his ass….catch a pass with his ass!
BOOM….shakka lakka….BOOM!!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Sep 2, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
emergency only!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
the ball's stuck ouch i can't walk!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Sep 2, 2010 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Quick someone call Alpha
I’m sure he’s been in this situation b4
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Cus your argumenrt is weak? I understand.
Yep you got me … jeezus some people
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Sep 2, 2010 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
One more thing about the Camarillo trade
What if Sapp is ALL that Minnesota would give us? It seems that Minnesota called us about Camarillo, not us calling them about Sapp. If that was the case, then we had the leverage in the negotiations. And if we did, and Sapp was all we got, then that means one of two things: Either our FO is really stupid and we were duped (which I seriously doubt) or Sapp was the most Minnesota was willing to give up (which is the most likely). IOW, Camarillo was worth the same as Sapp in the eyes of Vikings.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
This^
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this is valid
But, I still HATE being the loser in a trade. Which is how i feel.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.
by 54 on Sep 2, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand exactly how you feel
I wanted a draft pick. But let’s give Sapp a chance. He may be the best option we have right now at nickel. If he sucks and we cut him, then we will have lost on the trade.
aka "The Duke"
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Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
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good point
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
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by Little Nicky 21 on Sep 3, 2010 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
What if the Phins wanted Sapp and offered Hartline (cheaper and younger) and the Vikings wanted a reliable WR and asked for Cammy instead?
We don’t know who called who for what. None of that has come out to my knowledge. Conjecture can go both ways.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Sure it can go both ways but that scenario makes no sense
Why would the Dolphins want to trade last years 4th round draft pick investment. Let alone a promising rookie after his first year, when he clearly exceeded expectations
"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
"Randy Moss is still victimizing teams that passed on him in 98', and Dez Bryant will do the same." -Deuce Black
"2010 is Year of the Ginn" -Deuce Black
"Marlon needs Moore playing time" -Deuce Black
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I agree with Deuce
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Why would MIN ask for the higher priced, older, slower WR?
I am not saying it happened this way but we are looking at this from a Phins point of view. Look at it from a Viking point of view. There is no way they were looking to acquire the older more expensive player especially if they thought Hartline was better. What GM would do that? Especially if you think that older more expensive player is going to be cut in a week.
One other thing about this. Everyone here seems to think Hartline exceeded expectations last year. What other GM in the NFL would think that? Hartline was tied for 5th in receptions on a team with arguably one of the worst WR corp in the game. How is that exceeding expectations?
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Ok looking at it from a Vikings point of view
The Vikings have Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, and Bernard Berrian. Since 2 out of the 3 have health issues, they Vikings needed a proven receiver that could fill in until they are healthy. Which makes sense to go after Camarillo since he is a proven reciever that could be of service to them at the very least temporarily. Hartline hasn’t proven squat, and I doubt the Vikings would want to rely on an unproven starter like Hartline until Rice and Harvin get back to full health.
So why would MN ask for a inexperienced receiver to fill in for their injured starters?
And another thing, Hartline was a 4th round draft pick who rolled pretty much under the radar. No one expected him to make any kind of impact let alone get on the field. So the fact that he touched the field and did some good things, shows that he exceeded expectations (at least mine)
"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
"Randy Moss is still victimizing teams that passed on him in 98', and Dez Bryant will do the same." -Deuce Black
"2010 is Year of the Ginn" -Deuce Black
"Marlon needs Moore playing time" -Deuce Black
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I have no idea how this trade went down. I'm just speculating.
I will say this though. I think both teams over reacted. The Vikings WR Corp wasn’t in all that bad of shape, especially after getting Walker. And the Phins CB Corp wasn’t that bad either.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
No I definitely wouldnt call this an overreaction
Our only veteran corner Will Allen had another procedure done on his knee, and there is no guarantee he’ll be back to form and ready to go come week 1. So getting Sapp stabilized our nickel spot. It’s not that the CB core was bad, it’s just that we are thin when it comes to experience. Vontae and Sean have the outside corner jobs, there is no guarantee that Will Allen will be healthy to man the nickel spot, and I doubt we are going to rely solely on rookie Nolan Carroll. So bringing in a vet in Sapp was a good move.
I do agree that the Vikings WR core isn’t that bad, but Javon Walker has nothing to do with that. I mean c’mon when was the last time you’ve seen Walker play? The guy has had some personal/ injury issues and has been out of football for a while so there is no guarantee hes going to come in an be his former pro bowl self
"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
"Randy Moss is still victimizing teams that passed on him in 98', and Dez Bryant will do the same." -Deuce Black
"2010 is Year of the Ginn" -Deuce Black
"Marlon needs Moore playing time" -Deuce Black
Loading Swag... ████████████████ 100% Complete
If you are going to be bad at a position it is better to be bad young. At least there is a chance for improvement.
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
They could "ask" for Brandon Marshall
They likely asked who was available or they knew Cam was available.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
doubtful
and if they did, I’m sure we wouldn’t hesitate a second to make that deal.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Phinsider's Resident Chef
by Little Nicky 21 on Sep 3, 2010 2:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Alright
You must have forgot the contract extension the Fo gave Camarillo a while back. They paid him starter money. Well now we have Marshall and Hartline starting outside with Bess in the slot. So right now hes no more than a 4th receiver for us, and you dont pay starter money to a 4th receiver. Dont get me wrong Cam was a good player but his time was up.
As for Sapp, this was a crucial player we got in return. Will Allen is coming off surgery and theres no way we are going to rely on him to be healthy come week 1 let alone the whole season. A lot of people have been saying Sapp is trash and what not but he’s a vet. and he’s the only healthy veteran presence at the corner position. If you think this guy is trash then find me another option. Do you think the rookie Nolan Carroll is going to come in right away and play better than Sapp? I think not
"And who are you to tell me how to conduct myself? Why don't you practice safe sex and go f@#! yourself." -Loso
"Randy Moss is still victimizing teams that passed on him in 98', and Dez Bryant will do the same." -Deuce Black
"2010 is Year of the Ginn" -Deuce Black
"Marlon needs Moore playing time" -Deuce Black
Loading Swag... ████████████████ 100% Complete
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