The not-so early preseason depth chart

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 7:53 AM EDT

Now that the third preseason game has been played and the 53 man roster cuts will be completed at the end of the week, the roster is beginning to take shape. Coach Sparano has stated he believes about 90% of his roster is set and has also decided on a starting center. Here are my estimations on Miami's final roster.

	1st Team	2nd Team	3rd Team/4th Team
QB	Chad Henne	Chad Pennington	Tyler Thigpen
RB	Ronnie Brown	Ricky Williams	Patrick Cobbs/Lex Hilliard
FB	Lousaka Polite
WR	Brandon Marshall	Davone Bess	Marlon Moore
WR	Brian Hartline	Patrick Turner
TE	Anthony Fasano	David Martin	John Nalbone
LT	Jake Long	Lydon Murtha
LG	Richie Incognito
C	Jake Grove	Joe Berger
RG	John Jerry	Donald Thomas
RT	Vernon Carey	Nate Garner
	1st Team	2nd Team	3rd Team
DE	Kendall Langford	Charles Grant	Tony McDaniel
NT	Randy Starks	Paul Soliai
DE	Jared Odrick	Marques Douglas
SOLB	Koa Misi	Ike Alama-Francis
ILB	Channing Crowder	Tim Dobbins
ILB	Karlos Dansby	Micah Johnson
WOLB	Cameron Wake	Charlie Anderson
CB	Sean Smith	Nolan Carroll	Benny Sapp
CB	Vontae Davis	Will Allen	Jason Allen
S	Yeremiah Bell	Tyrone Culver
S	Chris Clemons	Reshad Jones
	1st Team	2nd Team	3rd Team
K	Dan Carpenter
P	Brandon Fields
LS	John Denney

Probably the hardest one to guess is the offensive line with Lydon Murtha and Cory Procter. I think Procter is the better of the two, but I think Miami may keep Murtha until Garner recovers. When Garner returns, I think Miami may look to release Murtha and resign Procter if he's still available. If Miami places Garner on the IR, I think they'll keep both Murtha and Procter.

The TE position is also hard to figure out, depending on the severity of the injury to Joey Haynos. I am guessing Haynos has suffered a torn achilles, which will need to be confirmed through an MRI. I am not a firm believer Miami will use Nalbone as their 3rd TE. They may choose to go with a free agent or only keep two TEs. If Miami chooses to go with 2 TEs, I think they will keep either Quentin Moses or Erik Walden at OLB.

The next noticeable change is at the ILB position, where I think Micah Johnson has the inside track. He's shown a lot in his limited time and was even on the field with the first team at times against the Atlanta Falcons.

I expect Miami to keep six CBs on the roster until Will Allen returns. Coach Sparano said this week he is doing well with his rehab and lets face it, with how poorly the secondary has looked at times Miami really needs Will Allen to get healthy.

Who does that leave for the practice squad?

I think Jonathon Amaya, Austin Spitler, Erik Walden, Roberto Wallace, Kory Sheets, Ryan Baker, Nate Ness, and Chris McCoy are all good candidates to fill out the eight man unit.

My apologies to Matty for using his format in the depth chart, but it does make it look cleaner.

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Comments

Mostly agree...

Nalbone sucks and should be gone…he has done nothing. Micah johnson really deserves to make this team ! Moore is way ahead on turner in my book – but I think both make the team… I would keep Wallace at WR over Turner – but the trifecta won’t drop their “draft baby” in turner… they should both Moore and Wallace are better players … Wallace adds more speed and Moore adds quickness and “football” instincts that i don’t see in turner. I just see a Big WR with average speed/hands… nothing more.
I think you have it EXACTLY how the coaches have it… I just want the best playewrs to play period. (goodbye Pat White)

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DRAFT a #1 WR now.........

by 62Lou on Aug 30, 2010 9:32 AM EDT reply actions

Wallace

I think Moore and Turner are pretty close to each other, but I’m not sure about Wallace. Wallace hasn’t done much to separate himself from Moore and Turner as a WR, but he has struggled on special teams. Remember one of the blocks was from a block he completely whiffed on.

As for Moore and Turner, I don’t expect either to see too much action at WR. Whoever wins the #4 spot may get 15 grabs or so. If Moore beats Turner out for the #4 WR, I think it’ll have more to do with his special teams play rather than WR skill.

I don’t buy that the front office would hold on to Turner simply because of “draft baby” syndrome. If there is one thing to credit about this front office, it is their ability to recognize their mistakes and move on quickly. Players such as Eric Green and Ernest Wilford are prime examples of that. Pat White will probably be another example and he was drafted higher than Turner. If Turner makes the team, it’ll be because he’s earned it.

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Wallace again

Sorry, I meant one of the punt blocks was credited to Wallace whiffing on his defender.

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions

I disagree with Turner and Moore...

I think Moore is ahead of him right now. I think the final WR spot is up for grabs between Turner, Wallace, or some waiver wire pick. We might go for a guy who can return punts. I think Wallace is ahead of Turner because of the potential he offers over Turner. Both are big targets, but Wallace is faster. He needs development, but so does Turner. I think Wallace can separate from Turner with a big game this week. Plus Moore and Wallace are willing to play special teams. Turner can, but does not play ST very well. I think that’s a big factor.

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by The Earl on Aug 30, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Yea I agree I believe Wallace can beat out Turner with a good enough showing this week in Dallas

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by Weecho85 on Aug 30, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

that's what I said...

Moore over Turner and Wallace ahead of Turner for his speed !!

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DRAFT a #1 WR now.........

by 62Lou on Aug 30, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Completely agree with you on why Turner makes it over Wallace

ST’s isnt going to be a factor since the 5th WR will be inactive for most games baring injury. Turner isn’t dramatically better than Wallace but since he does have that 3rd round grade. The guys that drafted him will try convince the other coaches in keeping him to save there ego’s. Its a natural reaction in that profession. Nobody wants to admit they were wrong about a player especially since an UDFA looks to be better than their 3rd round pick.

I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?

by Souwantmyname on Aug 30, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I'd rather have Carroll return kicks and Hilliard lead block.

I don't mind being ogled, ridiculed, made to feel minuscule. If you consider the source, it's kinda pitiful.
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by PotM on Aug 30, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Erik Walden ins't eligible for the PS.

Other than that, I’d say you’re pretty spot on with how the 53 will shape up.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Aug 30, 2010 11:10 AM EDT reply actions

Nevermind..

Scratch that, I was about to post about how Walden is eligible for a 3rd year of the practice squad based on the requirements the Dolphins have maintained. Then I forgot Walden was active for 11 games last year, giving him an accrued NFL season. Thanks for the correction.

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions

No player is eligible to be on one team's PS for 3 years.

They can be on the the PS for more than 3 years, but it would have to be with two or more teams.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Aug 30, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions

PS

A player can be on the practice squad for 3 years, even with the same team, as long as the team never goes under 53 men on their roster during his employment. It doesn’t matter how many teams the player plays on, they can’t be on the PS for more than 3 years.

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I haven't seen anything on a 3 year limit.

But yes, a player can spend more than two years on one teams PS. But that would also involve a team not having anybody go on IR or waive anybody for two years. I doubt you can find a team that fits that loophole. So the chances of it ever happening are slim to none. Which is why I basically said no player will be eligible to be on a team’s PS for 3 years.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Aug 30, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Practice Squad Rules

Can’t have already been on a practice squad for two or more years, although a third year on the practice squad is possible if a player’s team has had at least 53 players on the roster during his entire period of employment (players are deemed to have spent a season on the practice squad if they are on it for three of more regular season or postseason games during their first two years and at least one during their third year)

Do not have an accrued season of NFL experience (six or more games on a team’s 53-man roster, injured reserve or PUP list), unless they were on the active list (i.e. were dressed to play) for fewer than nine regular season games during their only accrued season(s)

Teams can have a practice squad consisting of a maximum of eight players (a ninth player can be added if he lives outside of the United States and is not a U.S. citizen)

Practice squad players make $5,200 per week ($88,400 for a 17-week season) and can only participate in practice (hence the name practice squad)

Players on the practice squad are free to negotiate with other teams and can be signed to another team’s 53-man roster without compensation to the original team.

If a team signs a player from the practice squad of its next opponent, the move must be made at least six days before the game; players signed from a practice squad also must count against the 53-man roster for three weeks (these rules are in place to prevent teams from signing practice-squad players for a week just to get information on their next opponent; it’s still possible, but these rules discourage the practice)

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

See, but nothing in there says a player can't spend more than 3 years on the PS.

It states that a player can’t spend more than 3 years on one team’s PS. Maybe I’m reading too much into it or it’s implied, but I haven’t seen anything that says a player cannot have more than 3 seasons on the PS in the NFL. All the ways I’ve seen it worded have to do with being on one team’s PS, not multiple.

But that still doesn’t change the fact if a player goes on IR or is waived during a season the roster drops to under 53. As I said before, I doubt you can find a team that had neither of those events occur during a two year span during the regular season.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Aug 30, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions

The Practice Squad

I do believe you’re reading too much into the Practice Squad. It was designed as a system to allow up and coming players to improve and get on the rosters, not for players to linger around from team to team and hang on the PS. That is why everything else you see in there references the amount of time spent in the league, not with a team.

by Finhead83 on Aug 30, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I understand it's use,

Which actually seems to me would benefit players more to be able to spend more than 3 years on it. Especially considering the success rate, or lack thereof, of practice squad players. So while it may seem it’s set up for players to improve and make rosters, very few ever do.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Aug 30, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Nice Work!

OL
I think they keep Murtha for now, but pick up a veteran G/T from the cuts
WR
I say Roberto Wallace and Marlon Moore make it and Patrick Turner does not
RB/FB
I say we keep 5: Brown, Williams, Cobbs, Hilliard, and Polite
TE
I say they stash Nalbone on the PS and go with 2 TE only
DL
I say Ryan Baker makes it over Marques Douglas (he does the same thing and is younger and can also backup NT)
LB
I say Erik Walden makes it and Nalbone does not
Otherwise, I say you are right on

Jared Odrick 6-5 304 DL & Tim Dobbins 6-1 246 ILB & Koa Misi 6-3 251 LOLB
Brandon Marshall 6-4 230 WR; John Jerry 6-5 328 LG; AJ Edds 6-3 247 LILB
Nolan Carroll 5-11 204 CB & Rashad Jones 6-1 214 S; Chris McCoy 6-3 244 ROLB; Austin Spitler RILB 6-2 243; Pet Cat:Chris "He's the REAL" McCoy 6-3 244

by DolphDallas on Aug 30, 2010 1:13 PM EDT reply actions

Baker isnt anywhere near as good as Douglas

plus were going to be asking Douglas to play quite a bit from the looks of Odrick’s recent struggles

I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?

by Souwantmyname on Aug 30, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I have a feeling that Hilliard will probably see zero playing time, sans injury this year

I wish Parmele was still around!

by Farorefox on Aug 30, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Or Sheets was healthy

by Farorefox on Aug 30, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

The Phins should only go with 2 TE's but I doubt they will

Hopefully someone gets cut and we find a replacement for Nalbone

I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?

by Souwantmyname on Aug 30, 2010 2:48 PM EDT reply actions

Scott Sicko?

He was cut by the Cowboys.

aka "The Duke"
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by The Earl on Aug 30, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

concussion issues

do we really want some sicko TE from the cowboys?

by DolphDallas on Aug 30, 2010 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

LOL... I just read his name this morning and said that

He probably isn’t any better than what we have.

aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
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by The Earl on Aug 30, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, Haynos is out of the scenario.

I like this line up but I truly think 10 OL will be here if we’re really gonna run.
I can’t imagine who’d they’d stash on the practice squad, though.

Unless we all conform, unless we follow our leaders blindly, there is no possible way we can remain free. ~Frank Burns

by Tunaflipper on Aug 30, 2010 6:22 PM EDT reply actions

Tim Dobbins = gone

Thomas = starter, Incognito = back-up

Other than that, everything is reasonable.

by PotM on Aug 30, 2010 7:35 PM EDT reply actions

IAF= GONE

by PotM on Aug 30, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions

IAF= GONE

by PotM on Aug 30, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Let me see if I get this straight.....

You’re advocating that 3 guys who have all gotten starter reps will be gone?

Let me set you straight.

Tim Dobbins = Crowder insurance and was specifically asked for in a trade.
Incognito = Has been the starter every preseason game and isn’t likely to be moved to back-up.
Thomas = Has been a back-up all preseason and will stay the back-up.
IAF = Misi insurance and very possibly might supplant Misi as the starting SOLB.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Aug 31, 2010 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Thomas = starter week 2 of Preseason, you know when our offense looked great.

when Incognito went in we couldn’t run the ball, also Thiggy had no time in the pocket. I’m not sure if the lack of pass protection was pastly due to him, but based on past experience, yes some of the pressure came from him.

IAF isn’t very good in coverage, can’t rush the passer, and is average in run support. Moses and CA work better here.

Dobbins might actually start, but i think the rookies should get their chance as Dobbins has been very bad in pass protection and above average in run support. I think one of our rookies will be able to do exactly that and would rather have a rookie in as they will get better.

by PotM on Sep 1, 2010 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions

i was forgetting that crowder was out.

by PotM on Sep 1, 2010 4:21 AM EDT up reply actions

I'm pretty sure Incognito has started every game this preseason

I’ve not read or heard anything about him getting pulled as the starter. Most of the question has revolved around the center position. Guards and tackles have been set for a while.

aka "The Duke"
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Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ

by The Earl on Sep 1, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions

He has.

I corrected PotM last time he said Thomas started the second game. Don’t know why it’s not sticking.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 1, 2010 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions

the second line was all white.

the FA we got the last week, and Incognito were the starters.

the 1st team oline was all black, with the C ant Long’s position being the exceptions. If i remember correctly Incognito is white and thomas is black. this isn’t racist, just stating facts.

Grove and Berger alternated series

by PotM on Sep 1, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

You got your facts wrong.....

Incognito has started all three preseason games…..

Game 1: http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55080/MIA_Gamebook.pdf

Game 2: http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55096/JAX_Gamebook.pdf

Game 3: http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/55109/MIA_Gamebook.pdf

The starting lineups are listed under the Lineups section.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions

I already corrected you once about Thomas starting game 2.

So to do it again, Incognito has started every preseason game this season. That’s not likely to change.

Say what you will about IAF, but you don’t give first team reps to a guy because he’s playing bad. Nor do you give first team reps to a guy if the guys under him are better. If anybody is gone, it’s Moses.

You only start rookies when you have nobody better to start in their place. None of our rookies have shown they are better than Dobbins, which is why he is starting.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 1, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions

they give him reps to see how a developmental guy is doing.

he did well in practice, but i don’t see any of that based on what i’ve seen

by PotM on Sep 1, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Are you saying IAF is a developmental player?

It’s his third year in the league. Teams already have a good idea of what he’s capable of. Players stop being developmental after their first or second years.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions

Since he is being moved from DT/DE to LB

I think you can say he’s developmental, or experimental, which, but he is developing fast and could unseat Misi.

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by uncle finster on Sep 2, 2010 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions

Even with a change of position, I still wouldn't classify him as developmental anymore.

I would argue that his development the last two years has led to this position change, as this is where the coaches see his best potential.

There’s not much more development a player will get after their second year. By a player’s third year they should be starting to produce at the potential they were rated at. His pushing Misi for the starting spot could be an indicator of this.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions

did we not just trade for tim dobbins cause the liked him,

i was not impressed with him, but i dont make the cuts

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by 21Dave on Aug 30, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I think Dobbins is essential as Crowder's not 100%

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by Tunaflipper on Aug 30, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree.

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by texascowpunk on Aug 31, 2010 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions

nice chart

But expect the unexpected when it comes to this regime.
99% sure P White is gone. but….↑ I prefer good draft value for Thigpen if the opportunity presents its self.
90% sure Turner makes it because he was a draft pick but….↑ I like Wallace and Moore better
90% sure John Nalbone ends up on PS. Most likely we’ll pick up a TE after cuts, or go into the season with two. I prefer the opportunity for one or the big WR’s (Wallace or Turner) to become a WR-backup TE.

I agree, Micah Johnson is nice surprise. I hope he continues to impress. CC needs to get healthy. Dobbins is stop gap IMO

O-line. I don’t want to see Procter or Murtha on there unless they can improve their play. I expect us to look at the cuts to see if we can find a upgrade for these two.

Grove is great when healthy but is a injury waiting to happen. Berger struggles against the bigger stronger opponents. We’ll need a center next draft. 1st round

Jason Allen is lucky to be the special team ace.
I agree, Will Allen needs to get healthy.

Walden snakes his way onto the team. Walden is one of our better ST players. We need him unless someone steps up.

I like Quentin Moses over Anderson.

Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Camarillo trade made 0 sense. A starting clutch WR for a 29 year old back-up CB? Someone found Rickey's old stash.

by 54 on Aug 30, 2010 11:11 PM EDT reply actions

Moses/Anderson

I think they’re pretty similar, but the staff seems to really like Anderson. Add to the equation Moses has been injured and it’ll be hard for Moses to beat him out.

by Finhead83 on Aug 31, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions

So now Garner is out Murtha can play, good thing as he has been silently have in a good

Preseason.

by PotM on Sep 1, 2010 4:22 AM EDT reply actions

Are you sure you've been watching the Dolphins preseason games?

Murtha has not been playing well. It’s been pointed out several times on this very site, on posts you’ve even commented on.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 1, 2010 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

Murtha

He hasn’t been playing all that great, but he’s been the best backup OT so far unfortunately. Andrew Gardner. I would not be surprised to see Miami look to the waiver wire for a backup OT though.

by Finhead83 on Sep 1, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions

He's really the only pure backup OT we have.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see one picked up for the practice squad, as well as at least one taken in the draft next year.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 1, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

I don’t think we know who our backup tackle is right now because I don’t think he’s on the team. I doubt we find another versatile guy like Garner on the waiver wire. But Murtha and Gardner haven’t been all that impressive.

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by The Earl on Sep 1, 2010 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions

Next year

I don’t necessarily think we need to get one i nthe draft next year. We’ll have Garner as a backup and they can get another from a practice squad or free agency.

by Finhead83 on Sep 1, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Next year presents some interesting challenges

I have confidence in the FO to get back some draft picks, though.

by Farorefox on Sep 1, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Garner isn't a pure OT.

Plus this FO would rather pickup a rookie tackle in the draft they could mold on their own as a possible heir apparent to Carey.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 1, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Garner

But he does play OT pretty well. I also think Carey is young enough where Miami doesn’t need to worry about an heir yet. OTs generally don’t take that long to adjust to the NFL.

by Finhead83 on Sep 1, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions

He plays well as a backup, which should tell you something.

But he’s still better suited as a guard.

Carey may be young, but by the time a rookie gets to the point the FO wants him to be at, 3-4 years, Carey will be 31-32 years old on the downside of his career. I think you’re a bit off on your OT adjustment. Maybe first rounders don’t take that long, but I’m talking about someone who would be drafted 3rd round or later.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 8:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Well

The part where you and I disagree on the necessity is Carey’s age. There have been numerous tackles that have performed well at 35 and beyond. I don’t think we’ll need to have a replacement ready when Carey is 31 or 32. At 31 or 32, that is when I think it would be time Miami would seriously need to start looking for an OT to replace Carey. Granted, you’re always looking for those backups to be able to groom and eventually at least match the level of the starter. If Miami drafts a lower round pick (4-7) to get one, that is fine because we need the depth anyways.

by Finhead83 on Sep 2, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions

That's really the point I was making.

As for numerous tackles to play well at 35 and beyond, I think you meant very few tackles. Walter Jones – 34, Jonathan Ogden – 33, Willie Roaf – 35, Orlando Pace – 34, Willie Anderson – 33. Now the ages I’m giving you are when the players retired. Now maybe if you go back to the 80’s and 90’s you’ll probably find some old timers, or if you look at G’s and C’s. These 5 were probably the best Tackles in the game from the mid 90’s to a couple years ago. Not one of them made it past 35, and every one of them was hobbled with injuries their final years.

I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.

by luvs2drnk on Sep 2, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

From what i've seen he is pretty good pass protector and developmental pass

blocker. @L2D I didn’t see the second half of the third PS game. and there was one time when Thiggy had no time, but that was due to the whole o-line.

by PotM on Sep 1, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions