AFC East Debate: Dolphins LBs or Patriots LBs?
by Matty I on Jul 21, 2010 5:00 AM EDT
in 2012 Miami Dolphins News
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PrintI told you on Monday that I was going to do a brief series comparing the Dolphins with their AFC East rivals at a few positions. Today we're going to turn our attention to defense.
When I was examining the other AFC East rosters, I thought that comparing Miami's group of linebackers with that of New England would be interesting because of how similar I think they are. Both have a very good player at one of their inside spots but have question marks everywhere else - particularly outside.
Below I will state my case for the Dolphins having the better group. I've enlisted the help of "SlotMachinePlayer" - a contributing writer over at Pats Pulpit, SBN's Patriots blog - to make his case for New England.
Why the Dolphins have the better linebackers
Let's start on the inside. While I respect Jarod Mayo, he isn't nearly the impact play-maker that Karlos Dansby is and will be in Miami. Dansby can do it all, is particularly good in coverage for a linebacker, and always seems to be around the ball. Mayo, meanwhile, seems like more of a run-stopping thumper in the middle of that defense.
When I see Mayo play, I think of Channing Crowder - a run stopper who doesn't do much else. But now with Dansby in the fold, Channing won't be asked to do much else other than make plays against the run. And we know he can do that. We've seen him do that and we've seen what happens when Channing isn't able to play - teams run the ball down Miami's throat. Crowder is also still a guy who has two 100 tackle seasons under his belt. Whoever wins the starting job next to Mayo in New England - whether it's Gary Guyton or rookie Brandon Spikes - is not as proven as Channing. In fact, Spikes might essentially be a Crowder clone (good against the run but slow). Edge to Miami.
On the outside, both teams have question marks. But Miami's upside with Cameron Wake and Koa Misi is far superior to the guys New England has on the roster. No, potential doesn't mean anything once the pads go on. But you can't sit here and tell me that you'd rather have Tully Banta-Cain, Derrick Burgess, and company over Wake, Misi, and Miami's group of no-names.
Why the Pats have the better linebackers
Jerod Mayo heads the Patriots linebacker squad. With Tedy Bruschi gone, and Tyrone McKenzie on IR, Mayo slid over to the strong side last year and called the defensive plays. It was a new role for him. Add in his three game injury, and he wasn't as effective as his DROY year: only 103 tackles (70 solo) vs 128 (100 solo). Tyrone McKenzie spent his year on IR studying the playbook and bulking up. With the addition of tackling machine Brandon Spikes from Florida, Jerod should be able to slide back over to his home ground of read and react on the weak side. Gary Guyton is back, and has the speed to drop into coverage against the best Tight Ends in the business as well as pressure from the OLB position.
Tully Banta-Cain is back after getting 9.5 sacks from the right side last year. Past him, the OLB position is a little more uncertain. Derrick Burgess was a little slow to pick up the system, but came along nicely at the end, picking up 3 of his 5 sacks in the last three games. He was a situational DE most of the year, but has been practicing dropping into coverage this preseason and it looks like he has some proficiency there. Look for him to be more of a three down OLB. Shawn Crable is lightning fast, and if he can stay healthy, he will be tough to contain. I look for a lot of offensive penalties as linemen jump before the snap to try to grab him. Hoodie had a chance to grab Carlos Dunlap, but drafted his teammate, Jermaine Cunningham from Florida, instead. Looking at some film, Cunningham was the guy drawing double teams, while Dunlap was left one on one, so I think Belichick knew what he was doing there. Of course, Pierre Woods is still on the squad if someone needs a break.
A lot of people talk about the OLB's in a 3-4 as the pass rushers, and quite often they are, but the pass rush can come from inside just as easily. It's been a few years since the Pats could successfully disguise their pass rush scheme, but with the personnel they have in place, pressure can come from anywhere. Personally, I prefer inside pressure because the QB can't just cozy up into the pocket and complete the pass. With a linebacker in his face, the pocket collapses, throwing lanes shrink, and the QB finds himself scrambling - hopefully into the waiting arms of the OLB. The season can't possibly come soon enough.
Thanks again to"SlotMachinePlayer" for helping us out. Your thoughts, as always, are encouraged below...
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Too close to call
im my opinion, but i like our upside much more. I think the FO drafted some hidden gems and Dobbins might just be a great acquisition.
"I likem me some UDFAs"
I was expecting to begrudgingly admit defeat here
But reading the write-ups, I feel way more comfortable cheering for our LBs than if I was a Pats fan!
Stephen Ross is to be seen, not heard.
by dolphinfanatic717 on Jul 21, 2010 7:17 AM EDT reply actions
i am/was in the same situation
WE GOT BRANDON MARSHALL!!!!!
"Faster than a speeding walrus" -Me.
"Violence is not the answer, it's the question; the answer is YES!!!"
Not a guaranteed strength for either team
which just seems odd for a couple of 3-4 teams. Too many what-ifs.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
yea I can see where your coming from
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
"This weed was the shiz-nittlebam snip-snap-sack"-Thurgood Jenkins
The official Kory Sheets clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
I'd say too close to call.
We have the advantage on the inside, but I’d give the Pats the advantage on the outside. But that’s mainly because the Pats already know what they can expect to get from their starters. We don’t. Yes, Wake looks like he has a ton of potential. But we have only seen him in pass only situations on a limited basis. Can he handle being an every down OLB? Yes, he has one hell of a motor, but most players do when they only get on the field for limited snaps. Can he keep that motor running for 4 quarters? As for Misi, he’s a rookie so we don’t know what his production will be.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
60 to 70 snap's a game, can get tyering after say 6 to 10 game span!
If you have a short week, your mowter my want to shut down early. But that will cum at the end of the year maybe? Great time for that to also happen.
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 21, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
That's my point about Wake.
Everyone doesn’t seem to realize that the reason Wake was so explosive last year was because he played limited snaps. Now that he might be playing running downs as well, will he still have the same explosiveness by the end of the game or end of the season?
Wake only played 167 snaps last year. It’s likely to increase to at least 500 this year. He only had one game of more than 30 snaps last year. Does he have the motor to keep it up for 50-60 snaps a game?
That’s why I had to call it too close to call. I believe we have the advantage in regards to ILB, but until Wake can prove he can go for a full game, and Misi can be productive as a rookie. I think the Pats have the advantage at OLB.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
by luvs2drnk on Jul 21, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lol; agree fully with this statment REC
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 21, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is one part to consider
Wake played every down while in the CFL and amasses massive sack numbers. Granted, it is still different, but it at least shows Wake does have stamina. He was also doing that at DE, where it can be really tiring since you have an OT getting his hands on you every down. I do think Wake has questions, but I don’t think his endurance is one.
How many games do they play in the CFL?
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 21, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
18
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Well then he should be set stamina wise.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 21, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
18 CFL games does not equal 16 NFL games.
Do you really think he’s going to spend the same amount of energy against a starting CFL tackle (equivalent to a 4th or 5th string NFL tackle), than he would against an NFL starting tackle?
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
What exactly is the formula?
(Defensive end energy spent + 4th string tackles) x (OLB energy spent – 1st string tackle) = No offense bro but your argument makes no sense.
Why would you assume Wake can’t make it through a full game? Does he only have to go to a third of the practices or training camp? I can’t wait for training camp to start so we can talk over actual points.
Beast + Robot x Karlito's Way = Championships & Happiness
by More Miami than Crockett and Tubbs on Jul 22, 2010 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
This ^^^^^
lol
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
There's no formula, it's common sense.
I never said he couldn’t go through a full game. I was stating he wouldn’t be as effective through a full game, compared to the limited snaps we’ve seen him play.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Common Sense
Common sense also tells you an OLB in a 3-4 defense doesn’t always go in the trenches to face off against an OL. By your theory, even if you take the CFL + minutes + NFL minutes / 3 (or however the equation works), you’d think Wake would still have an advantage being that he isn’t making contact with a lineman every down.
I guess that changes the formular to CFL + minutes + NFL minutes – plays without OL contact / 3. I’m not sure what the end result is to that….
exactly a 34 OLB doesnt even line up in the 3 point stance on every down
So his whole theory doesn’t really make any sense
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 10:28 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You have to understand football first.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I've noticed you dont
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 1:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True, he won't go up against an OL every down.
But seeing as he’ll be an every down player, he’s going to see one a lot more than he did last year. He’s also going to see the occasional TE, pulling guard, FB and HB. You also have to factor in that Randy Starks is small for a NT, so there will be times that the center will be able to block him by himself. That will allow the guard to block the DE, and the tackle to step out and engage the OLB. And yet another factor is that when we go to a 4-3 nickel and dime package, Wake played DE and will probably continue to do so. Adding more plays in which he would engage with a tackle.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
He's seen it all before
Again, he has played full 18 game CFL seasons and he has seen TEs, guards, FBs, and HBs. I will also not buy the silly argument that him going against lesser talent means he put out less effort. The guy is still a football player. I don’t care if you play in college, UFL, AFl, CFL, or the NFL. The majority of players give it their all regardless of the level of talent that is in front of them. That is how they get to where they are in the first place.
If Wake doesn’t pan out as an OLB, his endurance will not be a reason why.
And how many sack leaders from the CFL are in the NFL?
I’ll tell you….one.
Of the top 6 single season sack leaders in the CFL, only Wake made it to the NFL.
The CFL is also a passing league, so it played towards his strengths.
So yes, he may have played every down in the CFL against sub par competition. But this is the NFL, and the success rate of CFL all stars to NFL all stars is not very high. It’s actually very low.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Bruh how about you stay on topic
first you question Wake’s motor by saying the only reason why he was explosive was because he played in limited snaps. Well that didn’t seem to be the issue when he was racking up 39 sacks as a full-time starter in the CFL
Now your saying how many sack leader from the CFL make it in the NFL?
If this was last offseason when we signed Wake then you may have had a point here but you don’t. Wake has played downs in the NFL and has already proven he can get to the QB on the NFL level, limited snaps and all. So the CFL has nothing to do with anything because I’ve seen Wake play on the NFL level, so I can judge him on that. He may not be a complete linebacker as far as coverage and run stopping is concerned but one thing is for certain he can rush the passer on the NFL level.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bruh, I alter the discussion as it goes.
Fin brought up the fact he amassed 39 sacks in two seasons as a CFL starter. The fact it was the CFL is all the point I need to make. If success in the CFL translated to success in the NFL, we’d see more turnover don’t you think? The problem is we don’t, which is why I said it doesn’t matter what he did in the CFL.
As for what you say you’ve seen him do in the NFL. You’ve seen him play limited snaps, on predominately passing plays, and do well. I’m sorry, but that’s not very impressive. How much better do you think other LB’s could be in the NFL if 80% of the time they go on the field all they have to do is rush the passer? Of course they’re going to have inflated stats that make them look like pass rushing gods. They go in the game for one or two snaps, with fresh legs, go after the QB, then trot right off the field and wait for the next passing down.
If he proves he can be as productive in full playing time versus his limited playing time this year. Then by all means, I’ll give him all the credit he’s do. Until then, all he’s proven to me is a lot of potential.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I'm not Fin
but if you read his comment thoroughly you would see he was referring to the CFL to compare Wake’s endurance when he was a full time starter there. He said nothing about his sack totals translating to the NFL.
Here is one part to consider
Wake played every down while in the CFL and amasses massive sack numbers. Granted, it is still different, but it at least shows Wake does have stamina. He was also doing that at DE, where it can be really tiring since you have an OT getting his hands on you every down. I do think Wake has questions, but I don’t think his endurance is one.
And it’s more than just the limited snaps. It’s the fact I’ve seen Wake compete on the NFL level and there is nothing inflated about 5.5 sacks that’s pretty mediocre but considering it came from limited snaps shows he has potential to do some damage as a full-time starter.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
You've seen only what you tell yourself you've seen.
But in reality you haven’t seen anything. Don’t mistake playing in the CFL as an equivalent to playing in the NFL. Nor should you jump to conclusions about a player’s productivity based on limited playing time. People keep doing the same thing with Ronnie Brown. If he stayed healthy he would have 1500 yards and 10+ TDs. But look what’s happened, when he gets more snaps his body breaks down.
I’m not saying the guy won’t be good. I’m simply stating that we don’t know, and playing 1/5th the snaps of an every down NFL player doesn’t prove he’s good.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Bruh you make no sense
your comparing a oft injured runningback to an OLB
and why must you keep bringing up the CFL no one is saying that Wake is going to rack 39 sacks in the NFL
Im going by what ive seen Wake do on the NFL LEVEL and limited playing time or not the guy looks good
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
I'm not debating that he doesn't look good.
I’ve said the same thing. Over and Over again.
I bring up the CFL because people are using it as an equivalent to the NFL. Which it is not.
You are also basing your assumption of Wake based on 167 snaps in the NFL. Yes, he has potential. But I want to see him play a whole game/season to see if he can remain effective, and doesn’t gas out and become ineffective late in games/season.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
who is comparing the CFL to the NFL
In regaurds to what Wake did talent wise? All we were saying is that you can’t question his conditioning because he was a full time starter at defensive end
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 11:25 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
See this just proves you haven't been reading or understanding my comments.
You guys argued that because he was a full time starter in the CFL, that he’s fully capable to become a full time starter in the NFL. Thereby comparing that playing in the two leagues as equals.
Yet you continually overlook what is blatantly obvious. The talent level in the NFL is vastly superior to that in the CFL. Knowing that, one can reasonably assume that it would take quite a bit more effort to in the NFL to achieve similar success a player had in the CFL.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
You’re over here questioning whether or not Wake has endurance to maintain a high level of play through the duration of a game…we brought up the CFL because he was a full time starter in the CFL and his endurance was never in question, we are not talking about talent or comparing his CFL stats to the NFL…Football is football so no matter where he played he displayed a high motor end of story
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 1:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have to agree with you here Deuce. There is obviously
a difference between the two but the reasons that you hear of guys wearing down as rookies in the NFL is almost always due the the additional games and it usually comes near the end of the year. Common sense would tell you that this has more to do with the time played more so then the level of competition. Also he has been with the team for a solid year now and is working out with the team and conditioning at an NFL level so I do not know where the issue would lie. Sounds like a lot of splitting of hairs to me.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 22, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
The last thing we need to be worried about is Wakes conditioning
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 1:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Especially not with this coaching staff and FO.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 22, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said he wasn't a well conditioned athlete.
I’m sure he’s a very well conditioned athlete. I was simply stating that a lot of people are under the perception Wake is going to be as dominant as he was last year, in limited snaps, this year as an every down player.
The whole CFL/NFL comparison came about because Fin stated he amassed 39 sacks in two years as an every down player in the CFL. I was trying to explain that just because he was effective as an every down player in the CFL does not mean he’s going to be as equally effective as an NFL every down player.
Yes, he’s a freakish athlete with tons of potential. But until I can see how well he holds up during a game/season when he has to cover, stuff the run, and rush the passer. I’ll stop short of predicting double digit sacks and give it a wait and see approach.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I agree that being dominant in one league is
vastly different than in the other holding up over that full period is not my concern with him. Its if he is in fact what we all hope he is.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 22, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's what makes him who you hope he is.
He was so dominant last year because he was always fresh when he got on the field. That won’t be the case this year if he’s playing every down. So the question is will he still be able to show that burst he had in limited snaps, late in the game/season after playing 60/600 snaps compared to 15/150. I think it’s a fair question. I’m not saying he can’t do it. I’m simply saying I’ll wait till he can prove it.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Well my question is not can he be dominant
for that many snaps but more so can he be at least good when asked to do things other than kill the QB.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 22, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well nobody's debating that.
We’re all wondering if he can adapt and become an all around LB. But there’s plenty of others on this site who don’t really care as long as he continues to be a dominant pass rusher. It seems a forgone conclusion to some he’s guaranteed 15+ sacks this year. Which is why I made my argument.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Nothing is assured.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 22, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
You're confusing effort with talent
Just because the talent level is higher (bigger, stronger, faster) does not mean the effort level will be higher. Wake could play his ass off on every play in the CFL and NFL but not receive similar results.
You are the one not reading or understanding. I am not saying he will translate into a great LB. I just don’t see your point with the effort. I want him to succeed but we know he can do 1 aspect really well. We need to hope he has the talent to pick up the others.
Beast + Robot x Karlito's Way = Championships & Happiness
by More Miami than Crockett and Tubbs on Jul 24, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
You just made my argument in your first paragraph.
“Wake could play his ass off on every play in the CFL and NFL but not receive similar results.”
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying. But I haven’t been talking about effort if you’ve been reading my comments, and the only talent I’ve mentioned is the difference between NFL/CFL talent. Not Wake’s talent. As for doing one thing well, that still remains to be seen. 167 snaps in the NFL does not mean you do something well in the NFL. It does show potential, but that’s about it.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
You're way off
We’re not saying a starter in the CFL equals a starter in the NFL. We’re saying Wake has played through the rigors of a full professional season before and there is no reason to doubt his endurance.
Not picking on you but you need to think before you post.
“Of course they’re going to have inflated stats that make them look like pass rushing gods.”
Why wouldn’t every team do this with their best pass rushers if it is so easy? Wake only did it because he was a pass rush specialist project from the CFL that was converting from DE to OLB and by no means did he achieve pass rushing god status. He proved he could do it against NFL talent so he became the FO’s choice for the role. We can only wait and see now.
I’m sure Joey Porter would have preferred 20+ stats on way fewer plays if your reasoning were true.
Beast + Robot x Karlito's Way = Championships & Happiness
by More Miami than Crockett and Tubbs on Jul 22, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Because teams don't have that kind of luxury.
Obviously I was exaggerating with the god status, but not too far in some Dolphins fan’s minds. And there are some teams that do exactly what I just explained. But they don’t use their bread and butter pass rushers. Why? Because most of those LBs also play the run and or cover the pass just as good. That’s why they play every down, and not just on passing downs. That’s why Joey Porter played every down. He wasn’t the best at coverage, but he was serviceable against the run. You don’t take out your best pass rusher on possible running downs, for the pure chance they might pass.
The reason Wake only played limited snaps was because the FO didn’t trust his ability to play the run and cover the pass. Which is why in his 167 snaps, he played the run 17% and the pass 2%. He was only put into the game when the coaches felt the play was a pass. By the way, he hasn’t proved he can do it and become their choice for the role yet. Charlie Anderson was filling in that slot with the first team during OTA’s.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Yea i've seen him here in miami, (NFL only) he's (great & fast) getting to the QB. "I'm happy"
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 21, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Luvs
I’m not debating Wake’s ability to translate sacks from one pass happy league to another. What I am saying is Wake is used to playing every down for a full season. I am using this to show my confidence Wake has the motor to play every down without tiring. I’m not saying Wake will be great because he excelled in the CFL, but I am saying his endurance should not be one of the questions Wake needs to answer.
I already took care of him
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
But that's where you're confused.
48 min in the NFL is not equivalent to 48 min in the CFL. Do you honestly think a player is going to expell the same amount of energy playing against starters in the NFL, and what amounts to 4th or 5th string NFL players in the CFL? It’s not equivalent. That’s why I question his endurance.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Oh i didnt know 48 minutes in America
was different from 48 minutes in Canada smh do you hear yourself speak?
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Obviously you have no clue.
Please try and read, and comprehend my comments before replying to them. Cause obviously the concept of playing against an NFL starter vs a CFL starter is lost on you.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Consider this
Cameron Wake played every down while playing in the CFL. That was also while playing DE where the OT had hands on him every play and he still amassed a great amount of sacks. There are question marks for Wake, but I don’t think his endurance is one of them.
Actually one of Wake's strengths is his relentless motor to get to the QB
so i think he’ll be fine…his motor wasn’t a problem when he was racking up 39 sacks with the BC Lions as a full time starter so i don’t see how it would be a problem with the Dolphins
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
His teammate racked up 33 sacks in two years.
Why isn’t he in the NFL?
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Um Rickey Foley is in the NFl he signed with the seahawks this offseason
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Yes, and he totaled 20 sacks in 4 years.
He wasn’t signed because he could rush the QB.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Why would a team sign a defensive end that can't rush the passer?
That’s like signing a cornerback that can’t cover
anyway, first of all Foley began his CFL career as a special teamer so he wasn’t even seeing the field at first and this vid shopuld tell you the rest
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818c92b1&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Why did they sign him?
They signed him because he had one good year where he tied for the CFL league lead in sacks with 12. His previous 3 years, he totaled 8 sacks. Let’s see if he even makes the final 53 man roster before we anoint him an NFL player.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
because he has potential to rush the passer, that's why they signed him
If you watched the vid you would see he left Canada to go try out with the Ravens and he made the squad but didnt play at all his rookie year. When he came back to Canada Cam Wake took his spot and had a breakout year. Then Wake leaves and Foley is a starter. He tallied 12 sacks and the most impressive thing about it its that he did it with a broken thumb.
other than that i could really care less about this guy or whether or not he makes the Seahawks roster.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Well that tells me all I need to know.
He made the squad but didn’t play. Thanks for making my point. If he had talent, he would have played and not gotten released the next year.
Wow, he got 12 sacks in the pass happy CFL with a broken thumb! Was that supposed to impress me? You think he’s the first guy to play injured? Now if you had said broken arm, I might have been impressed.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
um
He made the squad but didn’t play. Thanks for making my point. If he had talent, he would have played and not gotten released the next year.
Tell that to James Harrison …but oh wait according to youhe probably doesnt have any talent because he didnt play when he was with the Ravens either
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Did you even look at those teams to see who he was going up against?
2002 Steelers: Joey Porter and Jason Gildon (both Pro Bowlers that year)
2003 Ravens: Peter Boulware and Adalius Thomas (both Pro Bowlers that year)
2004 Steelers: Porter and Clark Haggans (Porter was Pro Bowler and Haggans had 6 sacks)
Harrison didn’t get his chance till Porter left in FA. But Harrison did show enough talent to remain on special teams and the roster of teams with much better OLB than the Seahawks or the Ravens have now.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
hey genius
Foley was on that 2006 Ravens team with Adalius Thomas (who went to the Pro bowl in 06) and Terell Suggs so he didn’t have anymore of a chance than Harrison in his stint in the NFL so what exactly is your point?
By the way how much talent do you need to play on special teams?
So what exactly is your
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually genius....
Foley was playing in the CFL in 2006 – http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/618
He was not a part of the 2006 Ravens team – http://www.footballdb.com/teams/baltimore-ravens/roster/2006
Try doing some research first. Even your own article stated he only got a tryout with the Ravens in 2006 and is a long shot to even make the Seahawks special teams.
As for talent to make special teams, obviously more than Foley’s got. Otherwise he’d still be on the Ravens.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
there you go genius
he only got a tryout with the Ravens in 2006
so he attempted to join the squad and i already stated the talent they had at the position
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Actually.....
if you wanted to compare who he was going against. You would not use the starters. Obviously he had no chance of beating them out. But these are the guys who beat Foley out for the job of backup and special teams:
Dan Cody: Played one year in the NFL. Just happened to be the year he beat out Foley.
Dennis Haley: Played 3 years in the NFL.
Tim Johnson: Played 6 years in the NFL. Couldn’t even make it in Oakland.
Mike Smith: Played two years in the NFL.
Yeah, they had tons of talent after the starters. 4 players who all washed out of the league before the age of 29. That’s who Foley couldn’t beat out for a job.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Maybe he can't tell time
and doesn’t know that 48 minutes in the NFL is not equivalent to 48 Canadian minutes. That could work in his favor with the current conversion rate and the US minute futures falling.
Beast + Robot x Karlito's Way = Championships & Happiness
by More Miami than Crockett and Tubbs on Jul 24, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Is that the best argument you can come up with?
I’m sorry, maybe I should use flash cards for you. Words might not be your strong point.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Did you not understand the futures joke?
Really bro? You’re going to try to rag on me when I have not seen one post supporting your idiotic claim that you have to try harder and expel more energy against better professionals in different countries. Maybe you would get the point if we got more people to tell you your theory falls flat. “So I stopped thinking” would imply that you were actually thinking at some point.
Beast + Robot x Karlito's Way = Championships & Happiness
by More Miami than Crockett and Tubbs on Jul 25, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry, you must subscribe to Deuce's theory..
That football is football regardless of where it’s played and who it’s against. Because if it takes the same effort to succeed in the CFL as it does in the NFL, as you seem to think. Then tell me genius. Why is the success rate of CFL to NFL players less than 1%. Talent only gets you so far. It’s because they’re not willing to put forth the effort it takes to succeed in the NFL. Sure, it’s enough for the CFL or the UFL, or even the AFL. But that’s because it’s the CFL, the UFL, or the AFL, and not the NFL.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Really?
How come Rudy never made it to the NFL then smart guy. You obviously never played football. There are lots of guys playing high school, college or alternate professional football that give everything they got. Unfortunately they are not talented/smart enough. Less than 1% make it because of talent, not effort. All professional athletes have to give effort, talent/smarts are the difference. The NFL is about knowing where you are going before you need to go and being able to get there. Its not about trying to get there, thats what separates the NFL.
Beast + Robot x Karlito's Way = Championships & Happiness
by More Miami than Crockett and Tubbs on Jul 27, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Please read my comment fully.
What part of, “Talent only gets you so far. It’s because they’re not willing to put forth the effort it takes to succeed in the NFL.” did you not understand?
There are plenty of people playing in the CFL, UFL, and AFL that have more talent than current players on NFL rosters. But because they don’t put forth the effort, that’s why they don’t make it.
Zach Thomas wasn’t the most talented LB coming out of college, but he put forth the time and effort to become one of the best to ever play the position. Meanwhile, players like Lawrence Phillips and Charles Rogers were extremely talented players coming out of college, but weren’t willing to put forth the effort to make it in the NFL.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
That's also like
Signing a WR who can’t catch the ball! Oh wait, we did that! LOL
But that was last years complaint!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I will actually miss Ginn
But before I get blasted for that, I will miss his game changing plays he did make, and was looking forward to what may have been this year. Hopefully he can grow this year. I don’t wish him bad luck, but I wish he could have done more here.
every week i had that same prayer & two time's the prayer's answered me happily not bad , but not good enuff to keep him on the squad another season. PS. I liked him & will miss him greatly!
Bruther just move on!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 22, 2010 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i kinduv agree
to me, it is not as much about “whether he has the motor”, as whether he has the moves. Was he so successful because he was a “change of pace”?
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 21, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
That's kind of what I'm trying to get across.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Should've clarified
When you’re asking if he has the motor to play 50-60 snaps per game for a full season, it sounds like a question of endurance to me. As for thinking lineman weren’t prepared for him because he was a change of pace LB, I’m not exactly certain that is why he was successful in his snaps. Lineman are used to seeing almost every trick in the book. Teams also knew of Wake’s abilities because his style of rushing the QB was well documented.
sounded like that to me as well.
but i am not talking about the linemen not know his “one trick”. I mean that in every game, you adapt to the guy you are playing across from and when you have a guy come in off the bench for a play here and there, you have a fresh guy who plays differently. It creates more of an opportunity for a mistake or breakdown.
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 21, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But he only displayed two moves all season,
the speed rush and the spin. I think they figured it out pretty easily
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
what spin?
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
A spin move, don't tell me you don't know what one looks like
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
I said "what spin?" as in what spin did you see wake do?
as in I don’t think I’ve never seen Wake do a spin move. The only thing Wake does is the speed rush and the bull rush but he does them pretty damn well.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
true, he needs to work on it, but he has done it some times.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9jpcv9wfsc
:50 secs, look closely
4:58, right side
5:00, left side
5:37, 5:54, 6:01, 7:34, 7:40, 8:52, 9:14.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
please get you vision checked out
4:58, Wake was lined up on the left side and he was bull rushing
5:00, left side again and he was bull rushing
5:37, looked like he attempted to spin, but that definitely wasn’t a damn spin
5:54, Spin
6:01, Spin
7:34, Spin
7:40, not a Spin
So in 16 games he spinned like 3 or 4 times so that clearly wasn’t apart of his pass rush repertoire. So his main 2 moves he did all season were the bull rush and the speed rush point proven.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
But he did do it, I think he needs to get better at it,
but you don’t bust out a move out in a fight ’till you tried it a few timeds in the dojo.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
that was gay
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
but true
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Bruh in like 60 snaps he spun like 4 times
its definitely not his strong suit
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
But I know he is working on that.
He wouldn’t do it and I put the times on at the end of the play, so it is more like, 9/60, so he did it 15% of the time. I think we will see more moves this year, as he was basically a rookie last year.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
definitely wasnt 9 if read my comment and
saw the times youve mistaken for spin moves youll see. so it was more like 5 percent
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw a spin, There were
other times he spun, but it seemed more like the double made him more than he did it of his own accord.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Reasons he will keep his motor:
1) Dolphins demanding offseason training. (X2)
2) Youth, he has good “knees”.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Smh he wasn't question whether he would keep his motor
he was questioning whether Wake had a motor at all
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
he was questioning whether Wake had a motor at all
I agree with you 100% DB. Wake’s motor, endurance, and pass rushing skills is not in question at all. I don’t get anyone who questions this because he has provided the answers already. He just has to prove he has some run and coverage skills. With the devotion he has, I’m sure he’ll at least be serviceable in the remaining aspects of the OLB spot. WOLB rush 70% of the time. There is nothing to make anyone think he wont be a force there. He’s is as primed as one can be for a break out season.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 21, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly
i couldn’t have said it better myself
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Actually they don't rush 70% of the time of their total snaps.
It’s actually closer to 50%.
Now if you’re talking about in passing situations, then yes, they rush the QB roughly 80% or higher.
Why is so hard for people to understand I’m simply questioning whether the guy can keep the motor going for a full NFL game/season. Everyone is assuming he can, yet he’s only played 167 snaps in the NFL!
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Miami has better
What was New England’s biggest problem last season? Their LB corps generating pass rush. They added Brandon Spikes, that like Matty stated, has a specialty against the run. Cunningham might perform well as a rookie, as may Misi. Cameron Wake has shown more as an OLB generating pressure than Derrick Burgess, but both have questions against pass coverage. Tully Banta-Cain, while generating 9.5 sacks, is a pass rusher only. Even New England searched for others so TBC could be a 3rd down specialist. He lacks ability against the run and in coverage. Unless Cunningham breaks out, New England’s pass rushing problem will not be fixed. I’d have to take the pairing of Dansby and Crowder over Mayo and Guyton, but I think there is a better set of pass rushing skills and coverage ability with Misi and Wake than there is with Cunningham and Burgess.
UF
Don’t be surprised if Brandon Spikes ends up being a major producer for the Pats…and yes I agree, Crowder and Spikes have a lot in common….
Karlos Dansby excels in all facets of the game and instantly makes everyone in the linebacking corps betterwhen they line up along side him.
I don’t think you can say that about any of the Patriot’s linebackers.
Karlos Dansby (check)
Brandon Marshall (check)
Awesome Defensive Draft. Hell Yeah!
I hope you are correct sir
everyone said the same thing about Hugh Green, but i wasnt overly impressed.
"I likem me some UDFAs"
I think TD is whispering...
… is that a salami in yo pocket, or are you happy to see me…..
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Other factor's
Now that we have Nolan calling the plays, are defence will be far more aggressive than we have seen in the past few years.
Imho gives us the edge
I'm excited about Nolan too but he doesn't have any gameplans in the hall of fame
Belichick is one of the best defensive minds of ALL TIME. I may hate that he coaches the Pats, but it’s true. It’s part of what makes our W’s against him so sweet.
So I don’t think bring coaches into the mix works in our favor.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 21, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
as much as i hate the pats, doesnt seem people are being impartial
Mayo is a beast, wish we had him
by ricenbeans82 on Jul 21, 2010 12:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
This is very close. But, I’m going with Miami. I think we have more potential with our OLB’s. Wake will get double digit sacks with Nolan here. Misi is the wild card. I think Misi will be a great player when he figures it out. How long that takes is anyone’s guess. But, our inside guys are what sets us apart. Both have 100 tackle seasons. Dansby is a game changer. Crowder can stop the run. They complement each other.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
And this! ▲
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 21, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with 54
very close, but Fins have more potenial. Sorry Matty always agree with you, But MAYO = STUD!! I hate the Pats but Crowder cant hold mayo old sock, Mayo is younger , Faster, Smarter, well just plain and simple alot better than Crowder ever was and ever will be, and he has been in the league only 2 years I think ,so he will get better. I hope he gets an ego and want to be traded and we pick him up.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!
The Patriots work to get a good combination of linebackers....
… they’ve had this in the past, but of late, time has been catching up to them with retirements and free agency, etc. They look for the lunch pail (read cheaper) alternatives through the draft and from other teams.
This bunch they are accumilating aren’t getting it done for them from a “getting-to-the-quarterback” view point. That has been the weakness of the past coupla years. The inside is easier, it seems, to get set quicker, but that outside is still their exposed neck-to-the-matchete for opposing teams.
Until that is seen as even “potential” upside, the Dolphins have the better linebackers…….
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
▲▲▲This!
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 21, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Dansby is the best overall LB of the group
and Wake is the best pass rusher of the group.
Ranking our top 4 vs their top 4, I think we have the advantage at at least 3 of them
1 – Dansby vs Mayo: Dansby has the edge because he does everything well.
2 – Wake vs Banta-Cain: This is close, because both guys had “break out” years last season, but Wake gets the nod if he’s able to sustain his effectiveness throughout the season.
3 – Crowder vs Spikes: Spikes, to me, is Diet Crowder. Same player, but not as good.
4 – Misi vs Burgess: Misi is an unknown, but the buzz is that he’s extremely versatile and can do it all. Derrick Burgess is aging, but is still a dangerous pass rusher when healthy. Tough to give an edge here, because you have 2 guys on opposite ends of their careers.
Depth-wise, NE has a solid player in Guyton, and some potential in 2nd year guy Crable and rookie Cunningham. Miami, meanwhile, has some new faces that fans are excited about in Dobbins, McCoy, and Edds, and a solid if unspectacular reserve in Charlie Anderson. Once again, it all depends on the young guys and how they turn out.
I have to give the edge to Miami in this one, based on the first thing I said: Dansby is the best in the group overall, and Wake is the best pass rusher in the group. That puts us over the top.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Phinsider's Resident Chef
by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 21, 2010 1:49 PM EDT reply actions
Wake is the best pass rusher of the group?
And you’re basing that off of 167 snaps in his first year in the NFL? Don’t get me wrong, I think the guy has some serious potential. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
Last year we had 13 more sacks than NE, but only 6 more QB pressures. Banta-Cain and Burgess had almost as many QB pressures as our whole LB corp had last year (46 to 52), and we lost 31 of those with the departure of Porter and Taylor.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Wake
Wake had 20 QB pressures by himself. If you consider Wake a pass rushing specialist, Banta-Cain must be placed in the same category. Banta-Cain is decent pass rushing, but he lacks greatly in stopping the run and in pass coverage. Ideally, the Patriots were hoping to get another OLB to allow Banta-Cain to be a 3rd down OLB. Burgess also lacked pass rushing ability and he is more of a liability in coverage than Banta-Cain is. I’m not so sure on Wake, but I think TBC and Burgess are average at best. The LBs were New Englan’s biggest weakness and Cunningham will need to step in immediately if they want a decent pass rush.
Both Banta-Cain and Burgess played both DE and OLB last year for the Pats.
They both also played over 500 snaps and started at least 6 games. Yes, Wake did have 20 by himself. Banta-Cain and Burgess both had 23. Yes they did it with more snaps, but they were also playing every down.
Of Cameron Wake’s 167 snaps, 134 of those were passing downs. That makes it real easy for a LB to come on the field and be given one task. Over half of Banta-Cain’s 725 snaps were covering the run or pass. So it’s fair to assume he didn’t have fresh legs under him for probably half the time he rushed the QB. While we can definitely say that Wake had fresh legs under him every time.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Lol; wake has put on sum extra weight?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 21, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol; wake has put on sum extra weight?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 21, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if Burgess is physical enough to set the edge.
He played LB in a 43 Tampa 2 at Tampa. I don’t know if an aging Tampa 2 LB is what you want as a 34 SOLB.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
exactly
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
He did?
It thought he played LB for them.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
you thought wrong
besides a majority of OLB in the 3-4 were former 43 DEs
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Linebackers
Dansby and Crowder will take care of any run against us, safeties are a way bigger issue for the Dolphins defense in the coming season. We have so much youth in the secondary, a lot of question marks in that area…
Fins > Patriots but not by much
Interestingly, because the Pat LBs don’t have to be as good since their DL is superior to ours. The Front 7s are therefore actually pretty close.
LOLB Misi (better against the pass) = Burgess (better against the run)
LILB Crowder > McKenzie (mainly due to experience)
RILB Dansby > Mayo
ROLB Wake > Porter > Banta-Cain
Backups
LOLB Anderson < Burgess
LILB Dobbins > Spikes (mainly due to experience)
RILB Edds < Guyton (but this is really close)
ROLB McCoy < Crable/Cunningham
Fins have the edge in the starters while the Pats have the edge in the backups.
Jared Odrick 6-5 304 DL & Tim Dobbins 6-1 246 ILB & Koa Misi 6-3 251 LOLB
Brandon Marshall 6-4 230 WR; John Jerry 6-5 328 LG; AJ Edds 6-3 247 LILB
Nolan Carroll 5-11 204 CB & Rashad Jones 6-1 214 S; Chris McCoy 6-3 244 ROLB; Austin Spitler RILB 6-2 243; Pet Cat:Chris "He's the REAL" McCoy 6-3 244
SORRY It is suppose to be LOLB Anderson < Crable and ROLB McCoy > Cunningham
McCoy is better than Misi in pass rush and Misi > Cunningham
Jared Odrick 6-5 304 DL & Tim Dobbins 6-1 246 ILB & Koa Misi 6-3 251 LOLB
Brandon Marshall 6-4 230 WR; John Jerry 6-5 328 LG; AJ Edds 6-3 247 LILB
Nolan Carroll 5-11 204 CB & Rashad Jones 6-1 214 S; Chris McCoy 6-3 244 ROLB; Austin Spitler RILB 6-2 243; Pet Cat:Chris "He's the REAL" McCoy 6-3 244
I don't know about Misi > Cunningham
there both rookies so we have yet to them produce in the NFL but based off college stats Cunningham is the better pure pass rusher, Misi is more of a jack of all trades master at nothing
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Misis is the better pro-ready OLB, Cunningham is the passrusher, but more raw.
The rookies tend to have longer and more successful carreers when they are pro ready.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Being rated as pro ready coming out of college means nothing
finding “pro ready” players isnt a science
The rookies tend to have longer and more successful carreers when they are pro ready.
last year Brian Robiske was slated as a pro ready receiver, needless to say he didnt see the field this year.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
He played LB and DE in college.
That what makes me think he will play ok in pass coverage. He is a good run stuffer too. But we are comparing a SOLB to a WOLB. totally different roles.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
I never questioned his coverage or
run stuffing skills nor did i talk about their roles with their teams (because you dont even know what those are since they havent even played yet)
my point was that you cant say one rookie is better than the opther because neither have played a down in the NFL. You just furthered my point with that “pro ready” nonsense
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
You can say one is a better prospect, and which one is more likely
to succeed due to prior experience. If there was no way to predict these things, scouts would be out of a job, and resumes would be obsolete.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
wow really?
your the same guy that said this
The rookies tend to have longer and more successful carreers when they are pro ready.
That’s nonsense because scouting is not a science, sure you can predict but its not a science. If it was then you wouldn’t have so many 1st round busts. No one is a sure thing coming out of college that goes for every position.
so ill wait until i actually see Misi and Cunningham play to determine whos the better linebacker.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
So you are saying that all the film study done by scouts
is useless? Is the combine also a useless exercise? Should we pick names out of a hat and stick with them? The whole reason I said that was because throughout the history of the sport, the rookies that already played the position before tend to do better than those who change positions, also it applies to rookies that don’t have as much questions about whether they can cover, tackle, set the edge, rush the passer, etc. Also, it is hard to tell which is better, because if you put either one in the other’s shoes they will fail.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
wtf are you talking about?
So you are saying that all the film study done by scouts
is useless? Is the combine also a useless exercise? Should we pick names out of a hat and stick with them?
wow really? did you really just say that?
the rookies that already played the position before tend to do better than those who change positions
thanks captain obvious…do you really think a team is going to draft a cornerback in the first round to play QB. Thatr logic only applies to certain players and that specific team’s scheme of football. For example Jermaine Cunningham was a DE in the 4-3 incollege but will transition to a OLB in the 3-4
Also, it is hard to tell which is better, because if you put either one in the other’s shoes they will fail.
then why the hell are we having this conversation, you were the one talking about how much better Misi is than Cunningham, then going on to say how pro ready Misi is. How do you know if we drafted Cunningham to play in Misis spot that he would fail and vice versa?
this conversation is over hit me up when we’ve actually seen them play to make judgments on whether or not one is better than the other.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Your statements led me to that concluesion.
Since Misi played OLB and DE in college in a 34, and Cunningham only played DE in a 43, it would seem Misi is more pro ready. I tried to clarify what I said in that last comment, because it seemed you didn’t know what I was saying.
You brought up this conversation, if you don’t want it, don’t start it.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
The fact Misi played a little bit of OLB and DE in a 4-3
means he’s versatile and experienced in that area, and that he’s better to evaluate in terms of a team that wants to move him at a different position. That has nothing to do with “pro readiness”
and actually i didnt start anything i just replied to a comment by DolphnDallas stating how i didnt feel you can say Misi is better than Cunningham when they both have yet to play a down in the NFL.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
So playing OLB in college
doesn’t prepare you for OLD in the NFL, unlike DE. hmmmmmm.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
what?
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He played some OLB in college.
Let me break this down for you. We have two prospects for SOLB. A SOLB has to set the edge, cover TEs and backs and rush the passer. The names of these prospects are Prospect A and Prospect B.
Prospect A___Catagory_____ Prospect B
A_______ Setting the edge_____A
C_____Rushing the passer____B
B-______Coverage___________?
Which seems more likely to be a successful SOLB?
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
I didn't get you little diagram but here's something you should know
a SOLB is primarily a run stuffer, which is why people said JT and Joey Porter wouldnt work out because they both rush the passer and dont stop the run.
and this told me all i need to know
Which seems more likely to be a successful SOLB?
How about we watch them play then we can evaluate whos better. This post wasnt about which linebacking core is most likely to succeed its whos better and right now i cant determine that based of potential alone so ill wait till the season starte to dicifer these 2
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 21, 2010 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don't think you will be able to
for a number of reasons:
1) They play different positions
2) This is their first year in the league.
3) it is easier to transition to a WOLB than a SOLB due to the added responsibilities a SOLB has.
FYI: Look at D. Ware, he is a great pass rusher from the SOLB position. A SOLB isn’t just a run stopper.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Actually I can get an idea of what they are
even in their first year in the league
The real FYI: D.Ware is a WOLB and Anthony Spencer is their SOLB
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 22, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Pats fan here because SMP can't respond!
I would say that the Patriots linebackers are asked to perform different tasks than the Dolphins linebackers.
On the outside, the Patriots want players who can play the DE/OLB role. The defense runs on versatility and the ability to seamlessly switch from the 3-4 to the 4-3 on the same down is a must for OLBs. Cunningham and Burgess both have that ability to put their knuckles on the turf and play the line and allow the inside linebackers to make the tackles. Opposite, the ROLB (Banta-Cain, Crable, etc) must be able to stop the run and rush the passer. All must be able to drop back into coverage.
I believe the Dolphins have a system (correct me if I’m wrong, and I could possibly be way wrong) that’s similar to the Patriots, except they want their OLBs to be more like the Patriots ROLBs- rush the quarterback, stop the run and drop into coverage. The big difference, in my opinion, is that the OLBs for the Dolphins are expected to make the plays themselves, as opposed to opening space for the inside linebackers to make plays.
In this sense, I think the Patriots are more experienced and are more proven, while the Dolphins have more potential and have higher ceiling personnel. Take that however you want. For this upcoming season, I’d want the Patriots OLBs because I know what they’re capable of, but for the next five years, I’d lean towards taking the Dolphins.
Looking on the inside, I see the opposite happening. The Patriots have Jerod Mayo and Gary Guyton/Brandon Spikes/Tyrone McKenzie. The Dolphins have Karlos Dansby and Channing Crowder. On one hand the Dolphins are more proven and Dansby has had higher production at the NFL level. On the other, I believe that the Patriots, with Mayo and Spikes/Guyton/McKenzie, have a higher combined potential than Dansby and Crowder, and a Mayo and Guyton combination is not that far behind Dansby and Crowder.
Depends on what you want.
For this upcoming season? I’d take the Patriots OLBs with the Dolphins ILBs.
For the next five years? I’d take the Dolphins OLBs with the Patriots ILBs.
And, in the Patriots 3-4, the ILBs are of greater importance than the OLBs (whereas the ILBs and OLBs are of equal importance in the Dolphins defense), I’ll take the Patriots linebacker core due to their ILB potential. For the Dolphins, I’ll go with the proven ILBs and high potential OLBs of the current Dolphins defense.
So what does this mean? Both linebacker cores have been sculpted for their respective team.
But if I was a GM building a team, I’d gladly take the Dolphins OLBs to play alongside the Patriots ILBs.
Thats the sweetest way, that i've ever been told that my "OLB" dont match up to yourn! I think?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 22, 2010 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
You're in politics, aren't you....
I’d take the Patriots linebackers and their filming of opposing teams for the win…..
LOL
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Also a shoutout to POTM:
I agree about the Misi vs Cunningham comparisons. It’s not really fair because they play different positions. They’ll always be compared, but it’s like comparing oranges (Misi) to grapefruits (Cunningham), in regards to size (hah!) and their role on the defense.
this^
It is one thing to compare Butler to our SS and VD, or something like that, but not SOLB to WOLB. Cunningham to Wake would be a fairer comparison.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Interesting what bout jets?
Interesting I voted for too close to call but fish have more upside. What will be comparison vs jets? How it probably should be:
OL, LBs, Secondary not even close Jets
WRs love b. Marshall but think jets are prob better as a unit
DL with Jenkins back Jets prob have advantage
RBs have to go with fish but r browns injurys should be concern for fish fans, shonn Greene looks like he could be a stud.
QB I go with Henne for now but who knows both are young
from a jets fan by the way
we arent up to the jets yet buddy
by ricenbeans82 on Jul 21, 2010 9:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What sets us apart from them is QB, Sanchez was horrible last year
and looked lost. He barely threw last year, so the stats don’t tell the whole picture, but even those are horrendous.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
OL too close to call, but I’ll say Jets for now.
LB Miami.
Secondary Jets but closer than you think if W. Allen is healthy
WR Miami. All we were missing was a #1 guy to score TD’s. He’s here now. The other guys have had no problem moving the chains
DL Jets
RB’s Miami. Green is good but why on earth would you get rid of Thomas for LT? downgrade
QB Miami by far. Not only is Henne better thus far but our depth is probably the best in the league. I would even argue Thigpen is at least comparable to Sanchez. if not better.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
Thiggy > Sanchez
We saw him in KC and he can actually lead a team.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
damn straight
we have a stud 2nd QB, and i aint talking Pat White, at least not yet.
"I likem me some UDFAs"
I hope White improved enough to overtake Thiggy
in just pure QB skills, that way we can still use the wildpat, but not have to use the 3rd QB rule if Henne goes down. Also that means White is a hell of a QB that can run, too.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Crowder
I think dansby is not only an amazing ILB but is the perfect compliment to Channing. i think this the main reason the phins pushed so hard to sign dansby
It looks more like TD
is humping Crowder: YOU FINALLY DID IT, YOU MADE A BIG PLAY!
Staring down Mark Sanchez. Just look into the those brown beauties.
Say TD three times fast
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Tell it like i see it, once every ten time's miami defence touches the field. They gonna score!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 22, 2010 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I voted for Miami...
Going homer on this one but with good reason. But I think what will ultimately break the stalemate with people on the fence or siding with the Pats is the developement of Wake. If he become the dominating pass rushing machine than it’s all over. No more 4th quarter collapse or 40+ pass completions against this defense.
Mia lbs better than jets?
There’s a reason author didn’t pick jets for this comparison cuz it’s not even close
1. David Harris vs c. Dansby…. I like dansby but Harris is younger and a tackling and hitting machine 140 tackles 6 sacks and 2 picks
2. Wake vs. C pace….. Pace missed 4 games and still led team in sacks
3. B. Scott vs. Crowder? Lol cmon Scott is an animal on the field
4. Jason Taylor/b Thomas vs. A rookie? Cmon now even though I hated the j Taylor signing he will make some plays
As far as qb and wrs I like henne but remember sanchez was thrown out there his first year didn’t have a yr wigh a clipboard we will see
wrs I know all find fans are excited bout Marshall and should be but jets have a guy named Revis…. I guarantee Marshall won’t be having monster games vs the jets
as for entire units Edwards, s holmes, cotchery, and TE Keller I’d take over Marshall, harrline, bess( by the way I think he’s underrated) and fasano
Harris vs Dansby. Both are comparable. But, if you want to go with stats and ignore anything else may give Harris those numbers that’s cool. But I’ll go with Harris also :-).
Wake vs Pace. Wake had 5.5 sacks 20 QB pressure on a 167 snaps. Wake all the way
Scott vs Crowder- Crowder. He now gets to play next to a play making ILB. He will have over 100 tackles this year if healthy. Guaranteed
Jason Taylor/b Thomas vs. A rookie- There’s a reason we let Taylor walk. Not only did we let him walk, we let him walk to a rival. Your coach promised him a spot at WOLB. He can’t play that anymore. He’s a great SOLB now, but he doesn’t want to play that. I’ve been a fan of Misi since before the draft. I really like him and thought he could play day 1 if need be. So I’ll take Misi. I Know most wont right now. But, I got a gut feeling about this kid and I’ve learned to trust that feeling.
Our WR are underrated and I know Holmes. I will ask him to drop a ball or two. J/K
I don’t think Matty the phinsider admin has a good relationship with ganggreen admins. We would need a respectable jets fan. So far you seem like a good guy with good opinions.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 23, 2010 3:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Wellll...
he seems like he has the ability to voice his incorrect opinions in a civil manner….
Let’s not get crazy. ;^)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 23, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
he seems like he has the ability to voice his incorrect opinions in a civil manner
I think it’s a miracle we can say that about a jets fan. We can actually have an intelligent conversation with this one.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 23, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed. ;^)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 23, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
They sure do
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs499.snc3/27255_876472619732_5123941_49355433_3381523_n.jpg
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 23, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you just fail?
You did.
You failed…..
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
he shows up a day late and a dollar short
and still wants to rub it in…..
;^)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 23, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It's bound to happen :/
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 23, 2010 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
There we go
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 23, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Car 54, where are you?
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Don't bother me.... I'm eating
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 23, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 23, 2010 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 23, 2010 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
pats lb's
the pats have the better lb’s due to experience. i dont know why everyone thinks dansby is going to be good. he played for a strong team in a weak divisionand never had to face super bowl winning qb’s ( brady,manning, roethlisberger) yearly. he will be all over the field this year with his physical abilities, too bad in the wrong spots at the wrong times!
we have alot of young guys with upside so Its too close to call
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
""It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress"
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