AFC East Debate: Dolphins RBs or Bills RBs?
While I was preparing for my vacation, I was wondering what might make for interesting discussion while I was away. I bounced around a couple of ideas. But in the end, I thought that comparing the division rivals at a couple of key positions might be fun.
We're going to start with the Buffalo Bills. When looking at Buffalo's roster, I felt the position that would be the most interesting comparison to Miami would be at running back. I've noticed when reviewing a lot of these offseason rankings and fantasy football rankings that Buffalo's group of backs seemed to be ranked right around (and often times even ahead of) Miami's stable of backs.
So which group is better? I will share my (cough) "unbiased" (cough) thoughts below. I've also enlisted the help of Brian Galliford, who heads Buffalo Rumblings for SBN, to give us Buffalo's point of view on the subject.
Why the Dolphins have the better backs
There aren't many teams that can say they have two running backs as talented and accomplished as Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams. Both have 1,000 yard seasons under their belts. Both have been to the Pro Bowl in the past. And both are threats not just as runners but as receivers out of the backfield.
Yes, I'm aware that Ronnie is coming off of yet another season-ending injury. But when he's healthy, he's an elite talent in this league. He's as versatile as any running back in this league. And there's really only one thing that Brown can't do - stay healthy.
Then there's Ricky Williams, who set a record last year for number of years in between 1,000 yard seasons. Witnessing Ricky's 2009 season was like watching a revival. The then 32 year old back looked like a kid again, taking over the starting role from Ronnie after he went down and simply dominating. Did he lose some steam very late in the year? Of course. But what 32 year old back wouldn't? Still, the now 33 year old provides this offense the two-headed ground attack that should again help the Dolphins run for over 2,000 yards in 2010 - something Buffalo failed to do in 2009.
Patrick Cobbs also deserves a mention here. You can't look at the box score to see everything Cobbs can do for a team. But just ask Tony Sparano what he thinks of Cobbs and then you'd know just how important he is to this offense. Do you think it's just a coincidence that the 'Wildcat' struggled a bit once Cobbs went down with his knee injury?
I can talk all day about the tailbacks. But what puts the Dolphins ahead of the Bills, in my opinion, is their fullback - simply the best fullback in the league. Period. Lousaka Polite has been nothing short of spectacular in Miami. He's a dominant lead blocker and the best short-yardage back in the NFL, converting 17 of 18 3rd or 4th down opportunities with two or fewer yards to go. To me, Polite is the "X factor" and gives the Dolphins the edge.
Why the Bills have the better backs
As individual football players, I believe that C.J. Spiller, Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson are able to do more on the football field than Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs and Lex Hilliard - which is saying a lot, since I happen to have tremendous respect for Miami's backfield, and Williams in particular.
Brown, Williams and Cobbs have all been tremendously productive not only as rushers, but with the help of the Wildcat. Those three players have proven their worth in both facets of Miami's offense; they're all tough, fast, physical runners, and the depth of the position makes it very difficult for an opponent to stop Miami's running attack in any given game. Given the state of the two franchises, I have little doubt that Miami will field a more statistically potent rushing attack than Buffalo will in 2010.
But that doesn't mean the group of runners is better, because they're not. Lynch and Jackson have both been productive in less-than-ideal circumstances, and possess many of the same qualities that make Brown and Williams such great players. (Jackson, for example, has proven himself highly capable of operating out of a Wildcat look, as well.) Spiller, however, sets the group apart; he's the only running back in the AFC East capable of scoring from any spot on the field, at any position. His added home run ability and versatility makes Buffalo's group of runners - again, taken only from a skill standpoint - slightly better than Miami's. I'll re-iterate: that's saying a lot. These are obviously two of the more talented groups of running backs in the NFL.
A big thanks to Brian for helping us out with the Buffalo point of view. As always, your thoughts below...
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Spiller is an unproven commodity thusfar
It’s alot harder to score from any spot on the field in the NFL.
Not if your Chris Johnson...
or Adrian Peterson, DeAngelo Williams, Reggie Bush, Felix Jones, Desean Jackson, Mike Wallace, or Percy Harvin…hell even Ted Ginn
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
true true
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Dolhins vs Bills
Very interesting.Buffalo O -Line is stil a work in progressso that hurts their RB’s.Lets’s assume Brown stay’s healthy,which is unfortunately a big assimption,Rickey even at his advanced age ids a perfect compliment and add Lousaka they are a top 5 combo inthe league.I still remeber Cobbs fumbling in that awfull playoff game vs the Ravens 2yrs ago.I don;t think either Cobbs/Hilliard are capable of being staters and inthe next draft I want a stud RB.
Lynch has alot of talent but is a head case and unreliable.Jackson is very underated and can both run and catch.To me is comes down to CJ Spiller in this debate.Right now i’d say Miami has the edge but at the end of the year tht could change.
Let’s hope Ricky/Ronnie stay healthy,I really don’t like Hilliard/Cobbs as much as other fans do.
The offensive line is a good point, I Miss Dan
Miami’s offensive line is going to be a huge deciding factor in the success of the running game. It’s big, strong and deep. Not taking anything away from Ricky at 33, but with this physical line, even an old man with a walker could be successful. Miami’s offensive line will be formidable this year. It’s the foundation of a good running game. Buffalo is still rebuilding theirs. Miami wins this contest.
nico - you need to stop talking about Lefty that way. He doesn't need a walker just yet.
besides he can punish you since Matty is away
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
was he saying that I could try out as a Miami Dolphins running back?
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
and that you used a walker!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL I doubt that. Nicky will sooner grow to six feet tall.
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by texascowpunk on Jul 20, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.. all this Spiller is a god and is going to be great crap is just nuts. He has done nothing yet in the NFL and untill he does he is no better then a simple unproven rookie.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
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by MainePhinFan on Jul 19, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
All I have left to say is that Brian G has Weecho size balls for coming over here with this debate
when we have RunRickyRun – who should already be in the HOF IMHO
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
And RunRickyRun STILL has it!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
by PhinsTifosi on Jul 20, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Here's how I rank 'em:
1. Ronnie Brown – when healthy, and he is, RB is the best all-around back of this bunch.
2. Ricky Williams – Ricky is a BEAST. The guy has it figured out on and off the field and he’s the #2 guy I take for this season out of this group.
3. C.J. Spiller – You guys can’t go from half the site wanting to draft him in the 1st round to “he’s nothing until he proves it”. This guy has speed, agility, dexterity, quicks, you name it. Based on pure ability, I take him above the rest of this group.
4. Fred Jackson – You thought America had talent? THIS guy has talent! Young and unbridled but also relatively unproven. He and Spiller COULD be like Lightning & Lightning.
5. Lousaka Polite – Frankly, this guy has more of an impact on any given play than the rest of the halfbacks in this group. Not to mention he’s absolutely clutch on 3rd or 4th & short. Rumor is that he tries to deliver a perfectly crushing block on every play! He’s a “Monster”.
6. Marshawn Lynch – This guy makes me want to say “whateva, man”. But I will at least say he has the physical tools to be good. Just a guess, but something like his attitude is probably what is holding him back.
7. Pat & Lex – Are they a super-duo now? Are they? No, not right NOW they aren’t. Maybe in the future. Hopefully we they aren’t anything more than sidekicks this year.
to be honest i dont really know that much about the bills RB corps. not to much is said about them that i have seen. in fact the bills as a whole to me is no suffering the same fate as us phins did a few years back. the bottom of the afc east so basicly forgotten by the media. all the talk is now on the jets with all the big name hype. the pats who untill someone knocks them off thier perch wont see them for what they really are. a superbowl team slowly loosing their step. and us phins who the media is taking notice now as finally heading in the right direction. so i guess i cant really give a good solid vote on it.
as my great grand pappy use to say: nothing worse then someone who runs his mouth so much that his brain cant back up all those words.
common sence says if you put a stick in it and stirr if it stinks.. stop.. toss the stick and just walk away.
so your grand pappy KNOWS Rex Ryan?
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
Lol; at least on TV new's?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 19, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
hell my grand pappy MADE rex ryan.. one day he had let out this HUGE fart.. i mean this thing was so loud and strong that it knocked off one of his many dingleberries…. when it hit the ground it sprouted arms and legs called itself rex and got a job as the head coach of the jets..
just goes to show the jets wil hire just any old piece of sh*t
common sence says if you put a stick in it and stirr if it stinks.. stop.. toss the stick and just walk away.
ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and agreed ^
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
Spiller, however, sets the group apart; he's the only running back in the AFC East capable of scoring from any spot on the field, at any position.
Seriously? Here is an interesting statistic for you.
Number of snaps that CJ Spiller has played in the NFL: 0
CJ isn’t the first rookie that people have claimed “can score from anywhere on the field on any down,” so let’s wait to see if he can even get on the field before we start labeling him an NFL Caliber homerun threat.
Some people try to find things in this game that don't exist but football is only two things - blocking and tackling. ~Vince Lombardi
Yeap!
I think RB is the real threat on the field from any position(passer, receiver or runner). IF, thats a big if, he can stay healthy, then the Dolphins have the egde. So, because he is healthy at the moment, i pick the Dolphins ; )
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(23 years and counting)
Fair enough. I see your point. But let’s not deny that he does possess that ability, shall we? I think it’s fair to see that he’s the only back in the division with that ability.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I think its more than fair to say we don't know if he has that ability.
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by uncle finster on Jul 19, 2010 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Speed does not = ability,
and lets face it, he does not have C Johnson speed, he has Ricky speed, and Ricky has 30lbs more muscle, and is not afraid of the line of scrimmage, so what do you really have, IMO Spiller will be a bust, too small, not enough power, and overrated speed.
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by uncle finster on Jul 19, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
and gee, I seem to remember that RunRickyRun ran for a 50+ yard TD last year.
Lets see Spiller do THAT in 11 years!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
Marshawn Lynch has done that, too, but he’s hardly a home run threat. I love Ricky Williams, but a home run threat he is not.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Then please let me see you on the field and try to stop him!
and Marshawn is nowhere near RunRickyRun in age.
RRR proved that he IS a home run threat, because he did it last year. How many times did Spiller run from anywhere on the field to the house last year? In the NFL?
And then the Raiders thought that JaMarcus was the second coming of Kenny Stabler. Need I say more?
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
Ricky is a home run threat, but it has more to do with
the offense as a whole. if the line can get the RB to the second level, it should be a TD.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Cj Spiller has 4.28 speed thats pretty damn close to Chris Johnson's 4.24
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
heran a 4.37 if i remember correctly
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That was the average of both his 40's combined
in one split he ran a 4.28
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Spiller was officially timed at 4.37 in the forty-yard dash at the Scouting Combine Sunday.
Homerun hitter. Spiller was timed, unofficially, as fast as 4.27 and may have locked up a top-20 grade.
Official times are to be used.
http://speedendurance.com/2010/03/01/2010-nfl-combine-results-cj-spiller-4-37-40-yard-dash/
http://www.fftoolbox.com/football/nfl_news.cfm?news_id=1272
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/35632393/sports/player_news
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Hello! thats what i just said that 4.37 was an average of the 2 runs aka the official time
BUT in 1 split he ran a 4.28
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No, the 4.28 was the time a scout got. The 4.37 was the time the NFL rep got
Spiller was officially timed at 4.37 in the forty-yard dash at the Scouting Combine Sunday.
Homerun hitter. Spiller was timed, unofficially, as fast as 4.27 and may have locked up a top-20 grade
.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
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The "pm striker king"- WZB
OOOO MY! Bruh do you understand that an official time
is the average of both runs right? In ONE of his 2 runs he ran a 4.28, I watched the combine just to see spiller run.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That would mean he ran a 4.46 on the other run, which run would we use?
But you always take the fastest run, which is the official one. Scouts had him running a 4.2, but the official clock didn’t.
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Bruh
You have no idea what your talking about so just stop. They don’t take the fastest time they combine the 2 to make an official.
In the 07’ combine Patrick Willis ran like a 4.3 something in his first run and then a 4.6 in his second and then his official came out to be 4.49
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Why does this matter? Fast is fast. C.J. Spiller is fast.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
go back to where this convo started and youll see
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
I recall something along the lines “speed doesn’t equal ability.” Fractions of a second still don’t have anything to do with Spiller’s abilities.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Who gives a flying f*ck?
Let’s give it a go on opening day, that’s all that matters.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by stonecoldcory on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Speed aint gonna do spit when Spiller runs at Starks & Dansby & Bell!
Spiller is gonna find out that they hit a wee bit harder in the NFL and are faster themselves in the NFL.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
This^ in the NFL, almost every
CB runs a 4.3 or 4.4
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
naw that wasnt it
someone said Cj Spiller isnt as fast as Chris Johnson and i said a 4.28 is pretty damn close
then this kid is talking about some other nonsense
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Well, Spiller isn’t as fast as Johnson is. But he’s plenty fast enough.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
that was my point
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Well, there goes my whole post about CJ Spiller....!
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Relieved are we?
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
amused =)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
that's wrong
the official time is an official time.. not an average
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
His unofficial time was 4.28.
Believe me, I led the Draft Spiller Bandwagon for months on here, I watched his combine very closely. He ran an unofficial 4.28, adjusted back to a 4.37 officially.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
But I thought you only used official times.
And I was right WIN for PotM. LOSS for DB!
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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The "pm striker king"- WZB
exactly
The official times are not an average
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually they are,
the player runs two times, the “avg” time of the two races is the official 40 time.
So if he did run a 4.28, then his other run was a slower 4.47.
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by uncle finster on Jul 19, 2010 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
man dudes you guys are talking times that i have farted longer then.
common sence says if you put a stick in it and stirr if it stinks.. stop.. toss the stick and just walk away.
by animal2020 on Jul 19, 2010 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
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The "pm striker king"- WZB
Well, all this has been useless, because
it hasn’t proven anything.

Now for some DB-off
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Finster can you help me?
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Can anyone? Are you helpable?
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
(don't open the door if you don't want someone to walk through it!
as I am certain aminal’s grand pappy said.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I want him to see if he could put
“DB-off” under BM, where the grass is.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
thats not even funny or cool
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He is though.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
yes he is
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
lmao
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
yes they are
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
naw your still wrong nicky aint know what he was talkin bout
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
wow not you too
trust me they take your two times and average em out
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
In terms of overall talent, Ricky might be the best back in the division, even at 33...
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i wouldn't use the word talent.
i think he might be the most all rounded rb if you take into account all the aspects of being a rb, speed, power, vision, hands, blocking.
Its Ronnie, if you leave out injuries.
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former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Jul 19, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d have a hard time arguing that. Ricky is one of my all-time favorite NFL players, which, yes, makes me feel properly squeamish, I assure you.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Favorite is the wrong word. “Most respected” might be a better term. He has almost always played incredibly well against Buffalo. He’s one of the guys I don’t look forward to seeing in the backfield against Buffalo.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No, favorite is definitely the right word, Matt. :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Gross. :-)
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
LMAO
Randy Moss is my favorite WR…So I understand.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, DIB is in love with Marshawn! but my favorite WR is The Marshall.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
I agree.. unless he proves me wrong.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins.
B Marshall + B Hartline D Bess = The 2nd comming of The Killer B's MPF 04/17/10
If I took the time to check for errors I would forget what I was trying to say! Deal !
by MainePhinFan on Jul 19, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s fair to see that he’s the only back in the division with that ability
Kory Sheet has that “ability” He maybe a step slower. But, he’s still fast enough to be considered a break away. Yet he will have a tough battle to make the our 53. And He’s bigger than Spiller. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/502821 scroll down to agility test
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
“break away back*”
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Kory Sheet did it one year, Spiller did it for 4. He was also a tenth of a second slower than Spiller in the 40, if that matters much. Not to mention Sheets played two games in Miami only after a season-ending injury to Ronnie Brown. I don’t know if I’d go comparing a top ten pick to a UDFA very often.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
wait and see Sheets is gonna light up the field bruh
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
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The official Kory Sheets clan leader!!! LaRon Byrd the next Phenom from the U!!!
Wade County and The 3 Kings!!! Bring J-Will back to Miami!!!
I keep reading stuff about how Spiller has to prove it and you’re talking up Sheets who has had a year to prove it?
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It's Weecho, our resident Sheets Bandwagon driver.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
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KORY SHEETS IS OUR FUTURE!!!
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(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
KSIOF it should be in Weecho’s sig
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
nicky told me that weecho he has it stenciled on his underwear
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by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He got it on a tat on his lower back.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
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by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
how'd you see it?
-LCFF
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(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
MHTD told me about it. Not sure how he saw it.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
From Russia!
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Russia?
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep!
don’t ask don’t tell
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
I don't follow.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Potty, thats Vegas
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
Sheets wasn’t even on our roster until Cobbs went down. With the talent established ahead of him it was surprising he made it onto field. 49ers were pissed we took him from their PS. They said the only reason he didn’t make their 53 was that he needed to work on his blocking. They loved they way he ran. I was comparing speed when Brian said, there is no rb in the division comparable to Spiller. It doesn’t really mater if Spiller .10 faster. Anything under 4.4 is going to cause unique problems for a D. Draft status only matters on draft day. What the player does after is what matters. Bust and steals are what I’m talking about. Both have yet to prove they can get it done.
Spiller
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66483&draftyear=2010&genpos=RB
Sheets
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33538&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB
Sheets is faster (by a hair) in the first 10 yards which is more important if ya want to get picky.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Just a note.
I’ve not said Spiller wont be successful in the NFL. I think he will. But, he has yet to prove anything.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You make a valid point here that many people overlook...
There is not a HUGE difference between 4.2 and 4.4 seconds. Draftniks will discuss this kind of stuff at great length, but the truth is, there is not one person on Earth that can differentiate two-tenths of a second with the naked eye.
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Riding shotgun on the Julius Pruitt Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
I don't know about that.
How many fewer TD’s would CJ have scored last year if he was two-tenths of a second slower? Two-tenths of a second is a whole hell of a lot in just about any sport. I mean, look at baseball; how long do they have to react to a pitch? I think its actually way less than .2 seconds, so every baseball player in the world can differentiate two-tenths of a second with the naked eye.
I was saying most players in the NFL don’t run under 4.4. Once a RB can breaks into 4.3 defenses will have to have to play discipline to match up on a faster player. Of course the faster player will amplify the problem. The first 10-20 yards are the most important for these players. If they clear 20 yards its usually smooth sailing into the endzone.
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Frank Gore runs a 4.6
and breaks for plenty of TDs
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Imagine how many more he would break if he ran a 4.4,
or how many less if he ran a 4.8. And wasn’t Gore still recovering from a serious knee injury when he ran that 4.6? I’m not saying that a slower player can’t break for a long run, just that two-tenths makes it a whole lot easier.
Yea he had like 3 acl surgeries which is why he dropped so low in the draft
but it’s really all about game speed i think your getting a little too occupied with 40 times,
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Agreed...
Game speed is much more important.
Proponent of I-AA Football
Riding shotgun on the Julius Pruitt Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Agreed that game speed is MUCH more important than 40 times,
but they are somewhat related. And really I think quickness and acceleration are more important than strait-line speed. I would love to debate this but my 3 yr old and 2 week old just woke up from nap-time so I may be a little preoccupied.
A good example of that is when Yeremiah Bell chased down DeAngelo Williams in the Panthers game...
Proponent of I-AA Football
Riding shotgun on the Julius Pruitt Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
hell yea or when he hawked in wes welker
in that 2nd pats game
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
The more I watch of him, the more I like him...
He’s a great example. I hope he can keep his level of play up for a few more seasons.
Proponent of I-AA Football
Riding shotgun on the Julius Pruitt Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
well the fact that he was a backup in the early stages of his career
and missed alot of time as a starter due to injury, Bell doesnt have much rust on him
hes played all 16 games the past 2 seasons so you gotta love it
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 20, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But how big of a difference in distance is .2 seconds?
We’re not talking a big difference in terms of distance. If you look at the math behind it, it doesn’t equate to a great deal of distance. Look at an example: In this scenario, the WR runs a 4.4 and the CB a 4.2 even. The offense is at their own 30 yd line. The WR comes off the line and the CB slips at the line of scrimmage. The WR catches the football at the 35 yd line. The WR has a 5 yd cushion behind. Let’s assume for argument’s sake that the corner has no safety over the top and that the players can maintain top speed. In that scenario, the “slower” WR will take it to the house and the “faster” corner will come up short. If you take a 4.5 WR like Marshall in the same scenario, the CB will catch him inside the 1 yd line. I know this is a rather simplified example, but it makes my point.
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Riding shotgun on the Julius Pruitt Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
Perhaps...
He has a chance to become a threat on the outside.
Proponent of I-AA Football
Riding shotgun on the Julius Pruitt Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
I was saying that because
your example is eerily close to something that happened in the Saints game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TWSMuOf4Vk&feature=related
about 3:30 in
Tracey Porter runs under 4.35, he's barely fater than Spiller.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
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what does girth have to do with it?
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by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
larger girth=slower speed
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
ahhh... makes sense
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DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
It does look similar...
The problem inherent to my example is maintaining top speed. If you look at Ricky’s run, no one came close until he slowed up at the goal line. With Hartline, there was about a 3 yard cushion. If he had one more yard, he scores on that play.
Proponent of I-AA Football
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Unofficial Phinsider DJ
hartline was ran down from behind by porter
That pretty much shows you hartline doesn’t have long speed
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 20, 2010 11:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
neither does Marshall
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DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 20, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
whats your point
are you trying to say Hartline is the same caliber player as Hartline?
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
yes, that is exactly what i am saying
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 21, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh alright then
that's logical
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
listen, you come around CKC tomorrow night and i will give you a class
on how and when to use the sarcasm box.
k?
;^)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 21, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Awwhhhh blow it out your nose
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 21, 2010 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
ain't talkn ta u beav
blo yer own nose
;^)
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by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 22, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You guys have a sarcasm box? It’s genius! We have problems with that over at our site. :-)
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jul 21, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
LMAO!!!!!
2 funny! =)
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DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 22, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
unfortunately, even the sarcasm box can't help people get the hang of sarcasm
just putting a box around a comment doesn’t make it sarcastic.
;^)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 22, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait, what? I thought all items in the
sarcasm box were intended as such.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 22, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
huh huh hah hah hah hehehe dribble!
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 24, 2010 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
got ya
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
The amount of distance doesn't matter most of the time;
usually its a race to the corner or to the hole, where as long as your an arm’s length further along you are past the guy because you’re moving in different directions. The foot race is really just a special case.
Which is why I think 40 times are somewhat overrated...
I think the 10 and 20 yard splits are just as, if not more, important than the overall 40 time. Acceleration is important to create separation in the smaller areas. Because if a player can accelerate to create that 5 yard cushion, then that .2 or .3 second differential in the 40 becomes less relevant.
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Definitely on the same page with you on that.
I’m sure the pros put more weight into the splits and the other drills than the 40; its just us fans don’t know what a good cone time is (at least I don’t).
But speed isn’t the only thing that matters. If that were true Usian Bolt would be at the top of everyone’s draft list.
You can't have CHANGE without CHAN.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
He already is!
I love Bolt!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
by PhinsTifosi on Jul 20, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
MRW, gee please remind me exactly where Tom Brady and JaMarcus were drafted? Like draft position means squat !
Draft position is all about expectations, and tells you NOTHING about talent, ability and work ethic.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
I agree that draft position is overrated, but I think draft position tells a lot about talent, ability and worth ethic since that’s what teams are basing the draft picks on. Sure it’s not the be all, end all. I just don’t think Sheets compares to Spiller in anything other than straight line speed.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Ricky Williams can score from anywhere on the field.
Experts say that the sweep is obsolete in the NFL, because of the speed of the LBs. Well, Ricky made it work for the dolphins against the saints. All a play needs to go the distance is flawless execution by the offense.
I have always said that Ronnie is the better bruiser, but Ricky is the quicker and faster back. Also, it seems like Ricky has better vision.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
you cant really say that buffalo is better because of CJ spiller till cj spiller proves himself
WE GOT BRANDON MARSHALL!!!!!
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Not really.
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"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think our offensive line is better
Therefore, our back will be better.
"I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do."
Fred Jackson averaged 4.5 yards per carry behind our piece of garbage line last year. It’s not a one-way street there; good lines make better running backs, but good running backs make better lines, too.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
That's exactely my case why the Bills have better backs.
This debate isn’t: “AFC East Debate: Dolphins Rushing Offense or Bills Rushing Offense”
Its RBs vs RBs
Exactly. I think we both know that Miami would completely and utterly obliterate Buffalo in that other debate.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
no doubt for now but...
i hate to say it but the bills do have more talent and potential to really put up some nice numbers if only they could get their oline together.
Great point about the O-Line...
If the Bills RB"s had the Phins O-Line I think they’d get a lot more votes. I voted too close to call. Brown and Williams > Lynch and Jackson….however it’s to hard to predict what Spiller will do.
Drivin' the Pat White Bandwagon...current passengers 0..? Let me know if you want to hop on!! 2 passing Td's as well as 2 rushing TD's in '10...book it.
It's close to call, but guys i think the Bills have better Rbs
In terms of production, experience and all sure the Fins are more proven, but they’ve been running behind a much better oline of that of the bills, plus our offense is alot more balanced with a better qb and wrs. The Bills have better Rbs in terms of athleticism and age, Spiller is an absolute speedster, Lynch when not in trouble is a physical back, and Jackson is a starting calibre Rb in the NFL.
Let’s put it this way….
If the Bills Rbs were in our backfield, they’d produce better numbers than the Rbs we currently have.
Disagree
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by uncle finster on Jul 19, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
same. If each of Bills RBs gets 900+ yds this year, then I would agree.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
You can't tell me that they wouldn't produce big numbers if they were on our team.
It’s all about the system, if your in a good system any player will strive and produce fat numbers and since the system in buffalo is super crap, you can’t really compare their rbs statistics to ours, the only thing you can really compare are their numbers physically, the Bills rbs are every bit as physically gifted as ours, they produced similar numbers in college but the difference is speed and youth.
you cant really say what spiller will be able to do yet in the nfl !!
he has the talent but history is full of highly talent college backs who failed miserably after getting to the nfl level . until he proves himself you can only say he might score from anywhere on the field. so i go with miami’s running game
How many 4 TD games does Marshawn Lynch have? Remember Ronnie v the Pats?
Ignoring the O-Lines for the sake of argument, which is really the key to the running game (All-World RB gets tackled 3 yards in the backfield), I would say:
Brown > Lynch (assuming healthy and not suspended MARSHAWN!)
Williams (at 33) > Jackson
CJ Spiller (on potential) > Kory Sheets (but it is going to be interesting if Sheets makes the team)
Hilliard = Chad Simpson (Push)
Patrick Cobbs > Joique Bell
If we don’t take Lousaka Polite into the equation, the FINS still edge out the Bills running backs
Judging the Running Backs and Judging the Running Game are two different things.
Jared Odrick 6-5 304 DL & Tim Dobbins 6-1 246 ILB & Koa Misi 6-3 251 LOLB
Brandon Marshall 6-4 230 WR; John Jerry 6-5 328 LG; AJ Edds 6-3 247 LILB
Nolan Carroll 5-11 204 CB & Rashad Jones 6-1 214 S; Chris McCoy 6-3 244 ROLB; Austin Spitler RILB 6-2 243; Pet Cat:Chris "He's the REAL" McCoy 6-3 244
The likelihood of Simpson or Bell making the team is pretty low, IMO. And we do have a FB in Corey McIntyre, who is serviceable, but Polite is ahead of him no doubt. The question, to me, is usage of these guys. Nobody really knows how Chan Gailey is going to use our 3 backs. He may have an unnatural disdain for Jackson and use him sparingly. He may decide to use Spiller as a slot receiver in 80% of situations. It’s anybody’s guess right now. So I’m not sure a player-by-player comparison is accurate, though I doubt I can disagree with your evaluations.
Then again, it’s possible this year that the Bills are a better rushing team because the Phins bump up Henne’s responsibilities and they become a more pass-oriented team.
There are a lot of x-factor’s in the discussion, which is why I voted that it’s too close to call.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jul 19, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Spiller would be out of pace in the slot.
Because he wasn’t known as a great receiver out of the backfield. Before the draft i wanted Ford over spiller because he did more things right. this is one of the reasons
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Spiller had 11 career receiving touchdowns and 123 career receptions. Also averaged 11.5 yards per reception. The numbers weren’t amazing, but it hardly proves that he can’t play in the slot, or that he can’t catch the ball.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
But Ford was used much more in the slot, and i think there was a reason.
The reason being he was just better. running routes, and catching. I think that spiller will have to be able to both run and catch, because he is a Bush type back.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
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Well, that’s not hard to figure out. Ford was a wide receiver, while Spiller was the crux of the entire team and a star tailback. Of course Ford was used more in the slot.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ford was used as a RB and WR at Clemson.
That tells me that he might be a better Bush type back than Spiller. Bush lines up in the slot and creates mismatches against the other team’s LBs.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Actually, it should tell you that he was too small to play receiver, and that Spiller was too good at tailback to use in the way Buffalo plans to use him.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
this^
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
If Spiller is too small to play WR, he is def too small for RB.
And a college D isn’t a NFL D
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
The "pm striker king"- WZB
Nope, I meant Ford was too small to play receiver, and also too fast to not try to get him the ball in more unusual ways.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
But his catching ability
made him good Hartline 186 lbs., 16 YPC. Bess 5’10 (around) 190 lbs. 76 catches
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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Hartline’s got 5 inches in Jacoby Ford, and Bess is a completely different type of player, too.
How the hell are we talking about this now?
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
You said he is too small to play WR.
I gave you two WRs that are good in the NFL*. (*so far). Bess and Ford are both slot WRs. Ford can also play some HB too.
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I never disagreed with you that Ford can play a little RB; fast people usually can. Nor did I ever say Ford was bad at anything he does. This devolved from how Spiller/Ford were used at Clemson, and has little bearing on the original point.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess I took it the wrong way. But i still don't see your
point if it isn’t that
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I guess I should have said “he’s too small to play flanker or split end,” or one of the two outside receiver spots. Obviously, he’s big enough to play slot receiver.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, that is where I was thinking him.
I you ran a lot of shotgun plays, like the Colts, Saints, and Pats (used to), he is a great option as he can play Slot and HB. That makes him more dangerous than if he just was a RB that couldn’t catch.
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what the hell are you talking about
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
It's a lot different
when you have a CB lined up in front of you. There is no reason to think Spiller could break free of a CB at the line and play a slot WR.
The point of Spiller in the slot is to create mismatches; he’d line up in the backfield and motion out, so that a linebacker or safety picked him up. I’m sure he’ll actually line up at receiver on occasion, but I don’t expect that to be commonplace.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
If you want
Sure, but that leaves your backfield empty, except for maybe a FB. Defenses do make audibles…
Do they make personnel substitutions?
And can’t we line Spiller and Jackson/Lynch in the backfield?
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Doubtful formation
Buffalo most likely won’t. I’m also not talking personnel substitutions. I’m talking about zone defenses. Now you’d have to rely on Spiller having WR experience where he can read the soft spots in the zone.
Which Ford had some in College, which was why i was higher on him than
Spiller.
This isn’t at you 83, but at brian
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Maybe last year’s Bills teams wouldn’t have lined up multiple backs, but Chan Gailey absolutely will. He has to.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Instincts can get you by against zone defenses, too – and with the types of routes he’ll be running, he won’t require instincts in spades. I still don’t see a problem, apart from general execution, which is perpetually an issue for the Bills.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I would take Jackson over Williams
Can't remember the last time Miami had so much talent.
Rusty Smith! (Titans future qb)
by 54 on Jul 19, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
MIAMI HANDS DOWN
there is no back better than ronnie brown(when healthy) as far as versatility, in the entire league.when you think of wildcat, you picture brown.His ability to run,catch, and throw is above reproach.When thinking of rb, don’t just go on breakaway speed, but above all, wearing down OLs and punishing secondary.With ricky,ronnie, and lou polite, you get all that you are looking for in your backfield, threat to score and endless assault to your defense.
THE 70,S ARE FINALLY BACK. WELCOME TO THE FINS NEW SB ERA, 2010-
Fred Jackson was one for one with a touchdown pass last year and had the fourth most all-purpose yards in NFL history. Just sayin’. :-) That’s versatile.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I completely disagree with that first sentence
Ronnie isn’t in the top 10
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
The RB situations
I give Miami the edge, though with pure running ability, it is a close call. Here is why I like Miami.
I don’t agree that Spiller would be (he hasn’t played yet) the only back to score from anywhere. Both Ronnie Brown and Rickey Williams have shown the ability to still make the big plays. Williams did appear to slow down over the last 2 or 3 games last year, but he did show he still has the power and speed to be a very effective RB. Where I like Miami’s RB situation is the overall complete package each RB has over Buffalo’s set.
Both Ronnie Brown and Rickey Williams have shown good ability to run both inside and outside, though Brown is better suited for running outside the tackles in my opinion. Both of them are also good pass blockers and can read the blitz and are good receiving RBs. With Buffalo, they each have their niche. Fred Jackson is a great RB with good hands to catch the ball and is well suited for outside runs, but his blocking ability and inside the tackle running ability is not as polished as Miami’s set of RBs. Marshawn Lynch is a great inside the tackle RB, but he lacks the speed and burst to be effective on outside runs. He’s also not as much of a threat out of the backfield. He can make some catches, but he lacks the ability to really turn a screen or a flat into a big play. CJ Spiller has talent, but he is an unknown. While he can be a home run threat in the passing game and in the running game, he’ll have to answer questions about his ability to run between the tackles.
What definitely sets this group apart? Short yard rushing, especially in goal line situations. Buffalo’s RBs have been terrible getting into the endzone when they’re inside the 5, which is a great strength Miami has. Both Williams and Brown have done great scoring when Miami was in their goal line formations.
When you add in Polite, I think that seals the deal. I do like Buffalo’s set of RBs and I’d actually rank them #2 in the AFC East (because Greene is unknown and LT has slowed down) behind Miami’s. If Spiller emerges as a good RB, I think they can overtake Miami as a better RB corps. Also, if Brown goes down to injury, then I think I would prefer to take Buffalo’s combination of RBs.
Let me fix that for you
Buffalo’s RBs have been terrible gettinginto the endzone when they’re insideto the 5
The Bills O has been terrible at even just getting to the red zone much less the end zone.
Jackson doesn’t get into the endzone much but Lynch definitely can when he’s not trying to dance around and make a break for the big play (which he doesn’t have the top-end speed for). He does, however, have crazy strength, some solid lateral agility and a nose for the goal line.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jul 19, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Am I missing something here?
A FB is still a RB, and his rushing skills are phenomenal.
Stephen Ross is to be seen, not heard.
by dolphinfanatic717 on Jul 19, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
there different positions
fbs often lineup in front of the rb and most often lead block. i know that they can carry the ball as well but its still a fb running the ball, not a rb running the ball. im pretty sure most of the time when polite converted his short yardage situations was from a fb position
I think you are confusing RB with HB.
Polite is a RB, which is why everything he does, including blocking, should be considered when comparing RB’s. If we were comparing HB’s, then it would be a different story.
I could have sworn Polite was a FB
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There are many types of
RBs. There are FBs, HBs, and TBs. Depending on where they line up and what formation is used, changes their name
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but on the roster they have him as a FB
"Real gangsta-a$$ ni**as don't flex nuts cause real gangsta-a$$ ni**as know they got'em"-Geto Boyz-
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A FB is a RB.
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Yes you can.
And really, Matty bringing up that point is what set me over the edge. I had forgotton about Polite originally. It isn’t TBs/HBs vs., it’s RBs vs. Polite is a running back, and has phenomenal short yardage AND blocking capabilities.
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Jul 19, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the Dolphins for now.
But, unfortunately this might be the last year we can make that claim. Ronnie Brown staying healthy has to be key to the conversation. He’s not as big an if as CJ Spiller but Spiller has phenomenal upside. I really think he will be square in the ROY considerations.
And right now Marshawn Lynch is considered a “head case” which certainly lowers his value in my estimation.
Karlos Dansby (check)
Brandon Marshall (check)
Awesome Defensive Draft. Hell Yeah!
I really tried to be impartial
But maybe I failed, because my vote came out Miami.
My justification? Lousaka Polite and Patrick Cobbs pump the depth of our corps, and Brian’s comments about Spiller are at this point all conjecture. You can’t take be sure how a college weapon will transition to the NFL until you have seen at least one season (if not more). Thus, Spiller can (at this point) not be considered a tipping factor.
Great debate, I hope this will continue with some of the other AFC East squads, but let’s be a bit more original than Miami QB vs NYJ QB, okay? At least go WR.
Stephen Ross is to be seen, not heard.
by dolphinfanatic717 on Jul 19, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions
Phins WRs v Jest WRs isn't a debate, its a foregone conclusion - Phins WRs!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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I would say that Buffalo has the biggest question marks at RB
I think Buffalo would be nuts to get rid of Lynch, but with all of the off season drama surrounding him possibly getting traded, I don’ t think it is a “given” that he will be there or, if he is, that he will contribute.
Same with Spiller – lots of potential, never played an NFL down. Spiller with Lynch would be an awesome combination, assuming Spiller can come close to being as dynamic on the field as a pro, as he was in college. But Buffalo has so many other holes right now, including O-line, I wouldn’t have very high expectations from the 1st yr pro.
And let’s face it… Fred Jackson really isn’t scaring anyone. I’m not saying he isn’t a decent back. I’m just saying that no one is going to game plan to stop him.
I think if Spiller plays up to expectations, and Lynch is back to handle the inside stuff (and Buffalo can fix it’s O-line), I would give the edge to the Bills. But with so many questions unanswered, I’ve gotta go with the Fins RBs.
-LCFF
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(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 11:43 AM EDT reply actions
But the only problem of having
one back to catch passes, one to run on the outside, and one to run on the inside is that the defense amost knows the play before it is run. Our RBs can do it all meaning that the defense doesn’t really know the offensive play.
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But that’s not what the truth of the matter is though. Lynch and Jackson have the ability to run outside the tackles. Not as well as Spiller, but still adequately. Lynch’s hands are questionable, but Jackson’s aren’t, and it looks like Spiller catches pretty well. Spiller’s the only one with real speed, but you don’t draft an RB in the top 15 if you don’t think he has the ability to run between the tackles (even if it won’t be his bread and butter).
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Jul 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Potty, except when we line up in WC at the Jest 3, and Ronnie pounds it in for a TD and the Jest KNEW what was coming and STILL couldn't stop it!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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Jackson’s kind of our Patrick Cobbs – doesn’t stand out really in any way, but produces really well when he’s called upon. We’ve just had to use our Cobbs more than you have.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
But he is your starting back for now, that is not a good sign
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Operative words “for now.” Doubt that lasts much longer, at least insofar as which back gets the most touches.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
But Lynch doesn't have the fire, I have read a little on the BR.
And if Spiller is your starting back, you’re in trouble.
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Is Ricky Williams your starting back? We’ll use two, maybe three. I think Spiller gets the most overall touches, Jackson the most overall rushes.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Ronnie is.
A offense will always favor one back. it might change one game, because of the defensive mismatch, but tends to be one guy.
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Yes. Not sure where you’re going with that.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are going to use a multiple back system, you
still have a guy that you lean on more often than the others.
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OK. But this all started with you saying “Jackson is your starting RB for now, that is not a good sign,” and I fail to see how what you’re mentioning now is in any way a bad thing for the Bills.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
But if the back you lean on is a slightly
more talented version of Cobbs, that isn’t all that good
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And you’re sure we’ll be leaning on him every game next year? Seemed to work against the Dolphins… :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But, like I said, there is a RB
that you lean on the most often, which is the starting back
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I get that. “Give it to the guy who’s hottest.” If that’s Jackson, so what? You’d want it to be Cobbs if he was clearly playing better than Ronnie or Ricky in a given game, wouldn’t you?
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
But he wouldn't.
my point
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THAT’S what you were saying! Sheesh, took a minute to get there.
Well, Spiller’s a rookie, and Lynch stunk a year ago. So yes, last year, we relied on Jackson most. But that’s the first time that happened, and doesn’t mean it’ll happen again.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
But, like I said, there is a RB
that you lean on the most often, which is the starting back
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So who is your starting back if Jackson isn't
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nevermind
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Who's on first?
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
you Lefty
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
No one has any idea what Spiller can do yet.
Best case scenario for CJ is probably a Reggie Bush type complimentary role, which isn’t even that huge of an impact (or course, don’t tell Gibril Wilson that, who is probably sick of seeing the incessant replays of Bush leaping over him for a TD on NFL Network). Great to have, but we’re not talking a potential Chris Johnson or AP here.
And I am no fan of Lynch, who really hasn’t shown me any consistency.
Basically:
Ronnie>or=Jackson
Ricky>Lynch
Spiller=?
And then Cobbs and Lousaka Monster are just icing on the cake.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
you would take a 33 year old Ricky over 24 year old Marshawn?
and for comparison reasons you would have to compare Cobbs or Lousaka to Spiller, so they would not be “icing”.
Ronnie is better than Jackson but Ronnie has not run for over 1000 yards in 3 seasons. If healthy he is better, but that is part of the game.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Jul 19, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
For this year... yes
Marshawn has enough question marks as it is. For his specialty of being a bruising RB, he failed in that spot last year. Williams is the better receiving RB and is better at blocking. It also helps that Williams hasn’t been causing the headaches Lynch has. I completely agree with Brooklyn’s assessment. Brown is a better all-around back than Jackson. Spiller is an unknown.
Williams has caused far more headaches than Lynch,
just not recently. It is always “what have you done for me lately” Lynch had very good seasons his first two years. One bad year and he has no hope…
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
Hey now, Reavis had 1 good year and now the Jest fans are proclaiming that he should go into the HOF this summer!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
ha
this is true,
but thats how this league is. 1 down year and your finished and 1 great year and your the best ever
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
by billsoferie on Jul 20, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Jackson has had less time to prove himself
he has had exactly 1 season as a full time starter, and had an argubly better season than Ronnie has ever had.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
I would agree that Spiller could (key word) be way more productive than
Cobbs ever will, but:
Ronnie >>> Jackson (when healthy)
Ricky > Lynch (when not suspended, Lynch!)
Also, it is being reported that Lynch doesn’t have the fire anymore, meaning he is on the fasttrack out of the league.
So the second RB battle might be
Ricky vs. Spiller, which is interesting.
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Also, it is being reported that Lynch doesn’t have the fire anymore, meaning he is on the fasttrack out of the league.
I read literally every story on the Bills for our daily links post. Not one I’ve seen has said Lynch lost his fire. Who said it?
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a couple weeks ago:
Went something like this:
“We now have Jackson and Spiller, if Lynch doesn’t get his fire back/act together.” This wwhat led me to made that comment
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I’m not calling you a liar I just haven’t seen that “fire back” anywhere. I’ve seen the “act together” part of it. Lynch had a terrible season last year but two very good seasons before that so I’m not going to write him off yet.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
absolutely, on this evidence:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb
Ricky at 8 and Lynch at 45. Big difference. or this
again with Lynch ranked in the 40’s.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
well that is all because of last year.
Lynch ran for over 1000 yards his rookie and soph season. We are comparing players, not teams. On a better team, Lynch is a star.
"Hold ya chin up...nuh nuh nuh...gone" -Marshawn Lynch-
I don't think you do compare Cobbs or Lousaka Monster to Spiller
because they are called upon (or will be, in Spillers case) to do such drastically different things. It would come down to who values which role more—would you prefer a hard-hitting blocker/short yardage back and a versatile blocker/special teams tackler/occasional playmaker, or a speedy, versatile home run threat. Me? I prefer the former, because that’s the kind of football I love—mean, nasty, and brutal. But that’s a difference in taste, not quality.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Hang on – you say “no one has any idea what Spiller can do yet,” but “no one has any idea what Spiller can’t do yet” is just as true. So don’t take him out of CJ territory just yet.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't Spiller under 200 lbs.?
CJ is 210. AP is known for busting DBs in the mouth and his stiff arm. Spiller is known for blowing by guys in college. He also is a great juker, but not really a stiff armer and not known for putting his head down for extra yards.
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Notice I did not say to not remove Spiller from AP territory, because that comparison is ridiculous in the first place. :)
And yes, Spiller is listed at 196. The Titans list Johnson at 200, and for good measure, the Chiefs list Jamaal Charles at 199.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
But the Titans have a much better O-line.
A small RB will not open up the hole by himself. A faster RB needs a good O-line, and a bigger hole than a power back.
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Also, what? How does a big back “open up the hole by himself”?
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
They fall forward way far more often.
A bruiser don’t go down from a arm tackle as much as a smaller back. And isn’t Charles known for a good pop at the POA?
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This point, and
smaller backs tend to go out of bounds more often than trying to take the hit for more yardage. With bigger, faster LBs and secondaries in the NFL, I’m not ready to assume Spiller’s cahones are as large as they may have appeared at the collegiate level.
I call it the “Ted Ginn Syndrome.”
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Jul 19, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
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Reggie Bush had that very problem of running out.
Thats something he worked hard at improving upon. Just for the sake the smaller backs agrument. He has seemed to improve he did not go out of bounds against us on the goal-line last year…
Yes, Charles can do that. Why can’t Spiller? Because he was so obviously heads and shoulders more talented in college that he didn’t have to?
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't in college.
That is all.
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Same thing with E. Thomas in this draft.
He is the same size as some great FSs, but didn’t hit as hard as them
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He didn’t. Correct. Doesn’t mean he can’t.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
But he hasn't shown it, usually you would've seen it by now.
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So, my whole point of “maybe he didn’t do it because he didn’t have to” either missed the mark, or you just didn’t tell me you disagreed with it. :)
Watch Spiller return kicks sometime, too – he’s one of the most physical (and best) kick returners I’ve ever seen.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that point’s been made a fair few times now, thanks. :)
We were talking about physicality.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
We still don't know
Just saying we don’t know how well it translates to the NFL. It’s much faster and more physical in the pros.
Right! Which is why saying “he didn’t do it in college” or “he did it in college” or “he can’t do it in the NFL” or “he can do it in the NFL” are all irrelevant for the time being. :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But if he didn't in college,
it will be much harder to start in the NFL.
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I just flat out don’t agree with that.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
But if he could, i think we would've
seen him use it by now
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That’s why I brought up kick returns – I have actively seen him stiff-arm, break tackles, and all that jazz. He did it more frequently than you’d think.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I get a vid?
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One immediately comes to mind. No stiff-arm or anything, but you can see his balance and the fact that he can break tackles and keep going.
You’ll also notice your boy Ford ABSOLUTELY TORCHING Spiller (who did only have one shoe) down the field.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
About Ford "torching" Spiller
Spiller was slowed down by the would be tackler and was in the process of accelerating while Ford was already in top speed running down the field.
and also Spiller had a toe injury that game and that was evident after the play when he was limping
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Spiller had a toe injury for much of the season…
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
so why would you bring up Ford torching Spiller when clearly his toe injury made it irrelevant
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
I was trying to give something back, man. :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I also disagree with it,
however, with all due respect, while you can’t assume that somebody CAN’T do something, you can’t just assume that somebody CAN do it, either.
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Jul 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not assuming he can. I literally was just saying we don’t know yet.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh I hear you and understand that.
Merely saying that neither side can make the argument. It’s moot, really.
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Jul 19, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
We saw what happened with Ginn
5’11" around 190 lbs. Sure different positions, but same exact player, (almost)
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Nah, Spiller’s a better prospect than Ginn ever was.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s actually debatable, but your point’s made.
I’ll counter with the idea that Tom Brady was not considered a great prospect, and embrace the fact that we’ve now reached complete ambiguity in this argument.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish his middle name was Peter
or Paul or something with a P. That would be awesome.
Curt P. Enis.
rofl.
Gonna take a fortnight at least to get this herd down to St. Louis on Mississippi. This glen's gonna be tough to traverse, and that river's got to be 50, 60 meters wide. And God knows how many fathoms. To hell with parliamentary procedure. We've got to wrangle up some cattles!
by Dave.Phuller on Jul 19, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
you are a sad, strange little man
;^)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
touché
=)
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Ginn also was a glorified returner.
Note to self: Read the fanshots!
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get out of here
Ginn was a game breaker coming out of college and in the right system he can do the same in the nfl
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Why does “Spiller’s a better prospect than Ginn ever was” somehow equate to “Ginn was a terrible prospect and you’re an idiot for even bringing him up in the first place, so stop talking now, pwned”? Ginn’s a good player.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
hold up
your saying Spiller was a better prospect than Ginn ever was, when they both play different positions genius. But both their “game breaking” skills are pretty equivilant because of the fact it’s based off their speed.
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
Ginn will never be much in the NFL...
He’s already dropping passes and muffing punts with the 49ers. Yes, he’s got ridiculous speed. But he lacks something that is required in the NFL… toughness. Speed is great, but it does him no good when he won’t go across the middle or can’t hang on to the ball. Until he toughens up, he’ll be a bust.
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Was Ndamukong Suh a better prospect than Koa Misi? Yes. They play different positions, right?
So yes, I am saying that Spiller was a better prospect than Ginn was. That doesn’t mean much as it applies to their respective NFL careers.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Wikipedia has Spilla @ 198, and CJ @ 200. Both are listed at 5’ 11’’.
Dwan Edwards' welcoming wagon is boarding...Montana connection included...
Anyone can edit it so you know it’s the best possible information. :-)
I should go list Spiller at 206 just cause.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
well then why not 209 or 210?
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No reason. :-)
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
that's fair--but doesn't help this discussion
because it’s purely hypothetical, as opposed to the Reggie Bush comparison, which is , based on size, stats, skill set, where most folks who know more about football then yours truly tend put him.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d be fine if he had a rookie year like Bush had.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
CJ Territory...
That is like saying we shouldn’t take Bradford out of the Peyton Manning territory… You don’t put someone into the category until they prove they should be in there, not vice versa.
you said what I meant, but much more clearly, LOL
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not the point I was making. Don’t preclude him from eventually getting there is what I meant.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
But he's not there yet...
I think most said Buffalo could have the better corps IF he gets there. Unfortunately, we’re talking about now.
He’s not anywhere yet in 2010, but neither are any of the other players on the list. I stand by what I said. :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
The others
At least the others have NFL experience we can use to judge… is Trent Edwards on equal ground with Peyton Manning because we haven’t seen anything in 2010 yet?
Well, if that’s not taking things to an extreme, I don’t know what is. :)
Bills RBs vs. Dolphins RBs isn’t even in the same galaxy as Edwards/Manning. There are more subtleties to be had, and good arguments on both sides.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Just going...
Just using your theory man. Spiller can be another high round bust just as easily as he can be a Chris Johnson.
I know he can. I never said that wasn’t a possibility. I’m just saying don’t count out the possibility, either – just ask Kevin Garnett.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
well, when doing projections like this you can't reasonably project someone to be outlier.
You have to look at past performance and any other relevant data (comparisons to similar players, etc) and try to guess at future performance, and then compare. I don’t think you can reasonably project Spiller to the Johnson level, because Johnson is such a statistical outlier it doesn’t make sense.
If Spiller becomes that good, the Bills trump hands down. But you can’t reasonably project him to be that good—you can just cross your fingers and hope.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe Spiller won’t ever reach Johnson statistics, but you can have that type of impact on a football team.
And you’re damn right I’m hoping, with fingers and toes crossed, that Spiller is the next Johnson. :)
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But you should know that he is more likey a Bush clone
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I’ve heard that a million times, and again, if Spiller has a rookie year like Bush had, I’ll be immensely satisfied.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
But I mean takeing a Bush type role in your offense.
I don’t think he is going to be a primary back like CJ.
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Not immediately, no. He might have to at some point, but not immediately.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
well , lets assume he does.
I would rather have Polite and Cobbs (as a package deal) than Bush, because they suit our offense better, and they play the kind of tough football I like. But that’s just what I mentioned earlier—a difference in style/preference, not quality.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that’s accurate – and Chan Gailey needs to make damn sure that he’s fitting his offense’s style to Spiller’s talents, because he’s pretty much the only playmaker we’ve got.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't count out Evans, man.
If you can get somone to compliment him one the other side, he will break out.
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Mmm, not sure I’ve ever seen a 7th-year guy “break out.” Evans is what he is – good deep threat who can’t be the focal point of an offense.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
But he never had much of a receiving corps arouund him.
An d what I meant was, he will get more national recognition.
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He had a hell of a group around him a year ago. Lee Evans will break out when we finally re-discover competency at QB.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Edwards might have a Snachez type year next year
hand off
hand off
sack
hand off
hand off
pass
and so on
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
no I was writing of last year
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
by PhinsTifosi on Jul 20, 2010 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I tell you what, I'll cross my fingers for you too:)
The Bill are the last team i want at the bottom of our division (assuming the Fins are at the top, of course) Now, I still want to sweep you every year:), but at least you’re better than the Jests or patsies.
--the artist formerly known as Phillyfinfan--
by Brooklynfinfan on Jul 19, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
We aren't the only one that hate him?
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Why is the best case scenario for Spiller “Reggie Bush”? Wouldn’t it be “Chris Johnson” or even “CJ Spiller”?
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 19, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
his absolute best case scenario?
is Barry Sanders. Will he be that good? Most likely not. Nobody is IMO. But that’s his ceiling.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And that’s the best part. He has a great ceiling. Oh sorry, I should use a cliche. He has tremendous upside. :-) That doesn’t mean he will achieve it. I hope he does.
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
best case scenario for Spiller is Chris Johnson… worst case is Reggie Bush IMO.. he’s a ballplayer, make no mistake.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
best in the east
ARE YOU SERIOUS? THE DOLPHINS HAVE THE BEST RUNNING TEAM IN THE NFL. PERIOD! RICKY WILLIAMS, (THE BEAST FROM THE EAST!) WHEN THEY GET THERE RUNNING GAME ON , THERE THE ONES THAT SOUND LIKE STAMPEDING BUFFALOS!
If Brown stayed healthy, i think we keep the #1 rushing offense.
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Why are you yelling????????????
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by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree
way to be a homer though
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
CJ Spiller puts Buffalo's RBs in front...
… Spiller is the X-factor.
I don’t care that he hasn’t played yet. You draft for performance. And this guy has it in gobs! Yeah, the Bills’ O-line aint great, but you don’t need a line if you pass it to CJ in the flats or coming out of the back field and he goes on to put athletic supporters on the ground.
Just placing him on the field will cause major adjustments to be made by defensive planners and players. Yes, it has yet to be seen, but I’m bettin it is more-than-likely to happen, just like the Dolphins are counting on the defensive players they drafted….
(Our Koa will take care of their CJ… heh heh heh)
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and so was, gasp, Ted Ginn! and JaMarcus!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
so was almost every draft pick
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That’s actually a pretty fair point. I’d love it if the Bills employed an actual fullback.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why I hate the off-season
No offense to anyone, but these “debates” are utterly ridiculous until September 12th.
MATTEAU!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!! MATTEAU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL Says the guy entrusted with keeping order during Matty's absence.
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by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah this is nothing.
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by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah either way
it wont matter who has the better RBs when you have swiss cheese for a oline (buffalo)
So true. Plus Marshall is only going to make our backs that much better.
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Epically!
Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
by texascowpunk on Jul 19, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Lol; best player available it wasent a lineman opp's ok i loove the Bill's?
wopper "the king" computer
by wild zion beaver on Jul 20, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Very Very close
I would give the nod to the Fins due to the fact that they are all proven. 2 of the 3 for the Bills are, but untill CJ plays and proves he is a good NFL back ,he is not an NFL back. Now do I think he will be? Yes, but you have to prove it.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain!
Pontentially the Bills but Miami has the edge
I believe Lynch and Jackson can do Ronnie and Ricky numbers. The possible threat of Spiller would edge them to me but until then I have to take Polite as the scale tipper with his ability to create holes and short yardage talents. If Spiller is indeed a real threat like I said Bills edge us.
Brian made excellent points defending the Bills roster against PotM.
What now, whens training camp?
There are Smith guys and Vontae guys, I got V.D.
Ginn will be awesome now, good luck JT.
by okokokaay on Jul 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Can't run without and O-line
The Bills don’t have much of an O-line.
As the talent level is there for both teams equally the overall offense will determine which team has the better running gaming if not the talent.
Staring down Mark Sanchez. Just look into the those brown beauties.
Fins handily have better RBs
Fins have two potential 1000 yard rushers….that alone basically puts Miami ahead.
Cobbs and Hilliard add versatility that Spiller gives Buffalo…but I would take either RW or RB over Lynch in heartbeat
Add in the weak offense around the Bills RBs (questions at OL and QB) and the productivity this year will be lopsided in favor of Miami RBs vs those in Orchard Park
"I'm not sure where that is. Where is Revis Island? Hopefully I visit there soon."
-Brandon Marshall
Jackson and Lynch have both rushed for 1,000 yards in a season, too. “Handily” is a bit strong. This is a close call either way.
by Brian Galliford on Jul 19, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
age
the only reason the bills would have the better stable of backs is due to age, thats it!
due to age, the bills.
Which is why we need to draft ryan williams rb, virginia tech, then we will be better.
"you owe it to yourself to be the best in baseball and in life" Pete rose.
F the jets, bills, patriots and cryboys...and sooners, but go phins, longhorns, dodgers and stanford!
by dolger14 on Jul 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Tough choice
Buffalo is much younger, and Spiller is indeed the X-factor, because Miami’s 3rd RB is Cobbs, who has nowhere near the ability of Spiller (whether or not he reaches his potential, still remains to be seen).
But we can’t sit here and discount Spiller since he’s unproven, and sing our praises of Ronnie when both Buffalo backs have better individual seasons that Brown, are younger, and are not prone to injury the way Brown is. We could easily take Ronnie out of the argument in the same way we take Spiller out, simply because it’s almost a guarantee that Ronnie gets hurt…
I’m assuming this isn’t an argument about the “running game” overall, but just the running back position. Meaning the OL doesn’t matter. In that instance, I have to give the edge to Buffalo, based on 2 healthy load-bearing backs, and a potential home-run hitter, against our 1 healthy load-bearing back (Ricky) who is going to be 33, and no home-run hitter. However, if Ronnie and Ricky both stay healthy all year long, and Spiller is unable to get off for whatever reason (most likely the lack of talent around him, specifically the line), then I may change my mind.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 6:00 PM EDT reply actions
you can "discount" Spiller
since he is unproven, because there is still a question of “how good will he be?”. But I agree that you can not “count him out”. He is certainly a factor. But if Spiller performs like Reggie Bush, or Darren McFadden, it still effects the outcome as compared to him coming in and playing like CJ or AP.
Ronnie, on the other hand, has health questions, but his talent level is pretty well established.
I don’t see a problem with calling Spiller an asset, but hedging on anointing him as a better back than either Ronnie or Ricky in a game, at this point.
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with that
But, I will say that Spiller has a good chance of being better than Cobbs, who is our 3rd back. Jackson and Lynch are close to Ronnie and Ricky. Ricky might be the best of the bunch, but he’s also the oldest. Jackson and Ronnie are pretty close, both being about the same age, Ronnie is probably the better runner, but Jackson is more likely to be healthy through the entire season based on history. So Spiller can be the difference in deciding the better overall corps.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i think Spiller will be much better than cobbs
but i think Ronnie and Ricky are much better than Lynch/Jackson. JMO
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by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep.
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by texascowpunk on Jul 20, 2010 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions
better backs
was there any question? the proof is in the pudding fellas! (and ladies) how many games has brown missed, and still put up quality numbers that beat out some backs who played full time? and williams-run ricky run!!!!! does a nyone remember that in the not too distant past when cobbs had like 175 all purpose yards and two or three touchdowns? i do!!!!!!! and hilliard is an animal. plain and simple. but lousaka the monster is our bread and butter- i agree- the guy is a fine tuned machine who runs on overdrive for four quarters every game, down, season you name it. and he does exactly what we ask him to do- move the chains baby!!!!!!!!!!
by ibleedaquamarine on Jul 19, 2010 6:04 PM EDT reply actions
Spiller has yet to prove himself
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by MattRichWarren on Jul 20, 2010 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
ok i just got to say.. i have read down all thru this post and i am fairly impressed with the bills fans that have came over here and offered up some good solid debate. dang what is going here?? must be a full moon out or something.. but really to come and chat with the toilet water mental attitude it a credit to the bills fans.
i feel your pain dudes we was in your baot a few years back. stay to to the course and you will fight your way back out of the afc east basement. it is what makes our division i think one of the best ones.
hats off to you guys!
as my great grand papy use to say: it takes a strong man to stand behind his beliefs when all others have forsaken them.
common sence says if you put a stick in it and stirr if it stinks.. stop.. toss the stick and just walk away.
ummmm ohhh hell that was susposed to be without the toilet water mentality!!
common sence says if you put a stick in it and stirr if it stinks.. stop.. toss the stick and just walk away.
ROFLMFAO, and the Bills fans have always been respectful here as well as some of the Pats fans.
I have yet to see a Jest fan come here and NOT be a troll!
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
i think
miami’s backs are proven, the bills aren’t. we dont know how good cj spiller will be…he could be a bust. however, i do agree that miami’s backs can’t score from any spot. the only person miami has that can do that is bmarsh. but again, cj isn’t proven. in 2 years, he very well could be the chris johnson of the afc east. he even has his initials in his first name.
Bills backs are proven
Jackson and Lynch have both recorded 1,000 yards seasons in their careers.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
but not Spiller
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok..
for that matter, neither has Hilliard, Cobbs, or Sheets. It’s funny, because if we drafted Spiller, we would be singing his praises as a difference maker and using him as a trump card in the argument. I know it’s true, because I’ve already seen Odrick used in arguments about our DL, and Vontae and SS used in arguments about our secondary last season. They are unproven at the NFL level, but there is a ton of potential there. This entire debate is built on If’s, and it’s just as much of a question mark about Spiller being successful or not as there is about Ronnie being healthy, or Ricky continuing to be ageless..
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If this is how it is going to be for all the daily posts, i'm going to like it
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I think a good question for Dolfans would be:
Would you trade Ronnie, Ricky, Cobbs, Hilliard, and Sheets for Lynch, Jackson, and Spiller; and would you still do it with Polite included? A lot of people are concerned over the age of our backfield and this would definitely solve it.
NO!
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THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
well...
that’s 5 RB’s and the league’s best FB for 3 RB’s… so no. But if it’s Ronnie Ricky Cobbs for Lynch Jackson Spiller, I do it. Because in a year or two, the only guys left from that trade are the guys we traded for. And we are trading two 30 year-olds (essentially) and a guy who has hit his ceiling as a utility player, for a 30 year-old (essentially), a 24 year old who has proven to be a workhorse, and a guy with superstar potential. Behind Polite and our OL, Spiller and Lynch have a much better chance at reaching their potential than in Buffalo, and they can give you 6-8 years of effective running, something our current backs can not.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
but can you imagine Marshawn on South Beach? All the girls would run away!
(He definitely wins the fuglyness contest!)
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
lol that's probably a good thing
hard to catch a case when you get within arms distance of a girl lol
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The only reason I threw all 5 in there
is because I wouldn’t see us keeping more than 3 RB’s if we got rid of 33 yr-old Ricky and fragile Ronnie; and there is some debate over who our 3rd best RB is, so I just threw them all in.
And why does it not surprise me that you would take their 3 over our 3. For me it would be close, and Polite would definitely be the deciding factor; but the fact that it would be hard for me to decide leads me to believe that it would probably be the right thing to do considering I have a bias towards our players.
Brian twi things:
- Did Matty give you auto-blog
- Can you do Bills secondary vs. Dolphins secondary next?
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wow thats easy
Bills
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends, we have better CBS and a probowl SS
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in the long run sean and Vontae will take shit over
but as of right now a healthy leodis mckelvin, Terrence McGee, and Jarius Bryd its a wrap
its not hard to find a good ss its hard to find a ball hawking fs which we dont have as of late, and the Bills do in Jarius Bryd
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions
You can hide a not so great FS.
it is called blitzing like hell, thus using the FS as a nickel corner. It is much harder to hide a piss poor SS.
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I disagree
a FS has much more ground to cover and much more room to make mistakes. A weak SS can play in the box and play flats zones and not hurt you much. A weak FS gets you burned for TD’s.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
for some reason a gerbil keeps running through my mind when I read this comment.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
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by PhinsTifosi on Jul 19, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
my point
exactly lol
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You live by the blitz, you die by the blitz.
A SS is active in both the passing game and running game. Also, The SS covers the TE. What I said can work. if you got two great corners that you can leave on islands. Which i think we could do far more often this year.
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who said anything about a blitz?
The SS doesn’t always cover the TE, that’s why we’ve been stressing so much about finding LB’s that can cover. Plus, you can play a zone-heavy scheme, and the SS plays down in the box in flats or hook zones, whereas the FS is over the top in the danger zone. FS is much, much harder to hide when they aren’t good.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But a blitz happy system can hide a bad FS. That is what Rexy will do this
season, because Pool is not Rhodes.
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I disagree again
a blitz-happy scheme puts added pressure on a FS, because he has much more field to cover, seeing as how there are less players in coverage. He also has to be a very good open field tackler, because the offense will most likely hit a hot read short and he’ll have to come up and make the tackle. You can’t hide a FS
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
But, if he is in man, it doesn't matter
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the FS is rarely, if ever, in man
the only time a FS is in man coverage is in a Cover 0, which leaves no safety help for anyone, and is only run in blitz schemes. It’s dangerous, because you are putting 3 or 4 guys on islands, and hoping none of them get beat. That’s a sure-fire way to get a bad FS exposed and your team down 7 points.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
a bad FS usually points to
not being able to play deep and make said use him like a nickel corner and put him in man. It will work great, but also the D is suceptical to the big play. Look at the Jets, they used this very often, #1 D. When it is done right it is a great D
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Since pop warner, you are taught to tackle,
I doubt you can get to the pros not knowing how to tackle, this isn’t Madden.
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watch Taylor Mays
or Gibril Wilson… then try this again.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Mays can Tackle, his problem is coverage.
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the more you speak the more i know you dont know
what the hell your talking about
Taylor Mays throws his body around looking for the big hit he doesnt wrap up at all
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I'll give the offense a 3 yard out route, that isn't that bad.
Especially since he will be sacked or INT’ed if he throws deep.
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not if your FS isn't very good
that 3 yard out turns into huge yards. On top of that, the QB doesn’t need a great amount of time to throw deep, he can release a Fly route from a 3-step drop, and if the FS isn’t good, the CB isn’t gonna get much help over the top.
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll take Sean Smith or Davis on a jump ball.
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Look we had a terrible FS last year, but
do you remember the first half of the Saints game? we SHUTDOWN the best offense in the league. A blitz hapy D can do a lot to an offense
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yes it can
but it can’t hide the FS
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It did though, until we let up.
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did we let up or get exposed?
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
we stop blitzing
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they scored how many points in the
first half and how many in the second, after we stoped blitzing?
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Bruh do you think you can blitz forever to solve all your problems?
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Then tell me a way to hide a Horrible SS
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what?
how about you just play a good strong safety instead of trying to find ways to cover up your weaknesses because in due time they will be exposed
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What if you don't have a good SS?
That was my point. You can’t, unless you’re hiding the way to hide a horrible SS.
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Bruh THIS IS THE NFL you cant hide all your weaknesses
all weaklings get exposed
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
read below.
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But it is called doing the best with what
you have. For example If you have no QB, you try to run and play great D. If you have no running attack, but a QB, it might be a good idea to let him air it out. Pressure can make a good QB look like a rookie, thus you can hide a defect in coverage because he doesn’t have enough time to see it sometimes.
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you can do that with an offense
what do you do if your corner gets toasted every game?
or if your linebacker gets toasted every game?
or if your d-line is weak at the point of attack?
anything can be exposed no matter how you try to hide it.
the Jets defense is based off blitzing yet the couldnt stop Peyton manning from exposing their 2nd corner
so just stop your making no sense
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, the weakness will
be eventually exposed, but the rode that D to the AFCCG. I’m not saying it is the solution, but a bandaid to stop from bleeding out.
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Big difference second half though. and the
last minute TD was a coaching flaw
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It was also a referree blunder
If they’d have called the play right initially, Colston would have been down at the one and time would have expired.
wow do you understand when someone is blitzing
that means an opponent is left open which in turn make a FS job harder
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Man coverage isn't as hard as playing deep
middle if you ask me. it is much easier to find a CB that can cover a TE, RB, or perhaps a slot WR, than find a Ed Reed
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CBs
arent covering TE unless they split them out wide or in the slot
and how many times is a CB going to cover a RB?
your making no sense right now
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by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
OK,
You can hide a not so great FS. it is called blitzing like hell, thus using the FS as a nickel corner. It is much harder to hide a piss poor SS.
This is what I was talking about, keep up.
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you still make no sense
"I make black history every day, i don't need a month" -Kanye West
"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
let me spell it out for you again
But it is called doing the best with what you have. For example If you have no QB, you try to run and play great D. If you have no running attack, but a QB, it might be a good idea to let him air it out. Pressure can make a good QB look like a rookie, thus you can hide a defect in coverage because he doesn’t have enough time to see it sometimes.
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kid what are you talking about you have it the other way around
and even then a ss can still be exposed
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"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Um, a SS plays a big part in both the running game and
passing game
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a ss plays a big part in the run game
more than anything…but a FS plays a HUGE part in the passing game especially if your only 1 deep
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"Dez Bryant is a great player, get over it" -Me
by Deuce Black on Jul 19, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Put it this way...
regardless of who the better running backs are, when strictly speaking running backs….the fact that Miami’s OL is soooo vastly superior to that of Buffalo’s makes all the difference.
Put Ronnie & Ricky behind that line and they’d be struggling to break 3.5 ypc, while Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller would be running with aplomb behind our Fins line.
I can agree with that
taking OL’s into account, and voting strictly on running game as a whole instead of just the backs, Miami wins in a landslide (pun intended) IMO, based on the superiority of their OL, and Polite as FB
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jul 19, 2010 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i can too. this is a salient point to the entire discussion
-LCFF
DotJPBW
(under protest)
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jul 19, 2010 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Just an FYI
Here is Tim Graham’s take on the AFC East RBs:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/15275/does-buffalo-have-the-best-three-rbs
i was gonna say "too close to call" buuuuut.....
then i remembered we were taking fullbacks into account here too. soooo, dolphins
Looks like it's time for a little "Chazzle Dazzle"

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