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D-Up!

     In an attempt to avoid talking about the same ol' shit, I've been trying to think outside the box.  Needless to say I had very little succes doing so.  But while reading Matty's about post game changing moves and scrolling through the comments.  I came across an intresting point.  62Lou a member of our community stated how he hates the 3-4, and though I didn't agree with the majority of his comment.  I totally agree with the way he feels about the 3-4.  I love the 4-3.  I think it's the best defense....well... period.  There's no transitioning necessary (other than the game speed).  Everyone drafted for the 4-3, typically stays at the same position they played in college.  DE's remain DE's.  OLB's remain OLB's.  Which gives me the impression that there's less of a gamble come draft day.  Not to say there won't be busts, because there's always a chance that a guy won't play up to his potential.  But if you think back to the days of Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor.  One of the weakest positions we had on defense was OLB.  Yet we remained a top tier defense.  Why?  Because the 4-3 has the ability to mask some liabilities in the front seven, if you have a good MLB.  As oppose to a 3-4 scheme  where the overall talent of the defense dictates the unit's effectiveness much more.  I hate to sound like I'm against the 3-4 completely, because I'm not (obviously my favorite team runs it).  But I do miss the days when DE's lead their teams in sacks.  You know those days when DT's were more than run stuffers, and MLB's were took the field one at a time.  Call me old fashioned, but I miss those days.  Don't get me wrong, I love what the trifecta has done with this franchise.  So don't make it seem like I'm calling out the FO in any way.  But this post is about preference, and I prefer the 4-3. 

     So with that in mind.  If you were building a franchise from scracth, what defensive scheme would you use?  And why?

Poll
Which defense do you prefer?
3-4
122 votes
4-3
41 votes
cover 2
5 votes
other
15 votes

183 votes | Poll has closed

This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.

Comment 69 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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3-4 all the way!

Idk what a cover 2 is.

"you owe it to yourself to be the best in baseball and in life" Pete rose.
F the jets, bills, patriots and cryboys...and sooners, but go phins, longhorns, dodgers and stanford!

by dolger14 on Jun 25, 2010 1:39 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

it doesn't fit with what the post is talking about really.

The cover 2 basically refers to playing with 2 deep safeties, you can play a cover 2 out of both the 3-4 and 4-3 base

by kozam9707 on Jun 25, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

kk thank you!

"you owe it to yourself to be the best in baseball and in life" Pete rose.
F the jets, bills, patriots and cryboys...and sooners, but go phins, longhorns, dodgers and stanford!

by dolger14 on Jun 25, 2010 2:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The Bucs and Colts both used a Cover 2 base in their Super Bowl victories

It actually does fit with the theme of the post because it is not the coverage that he’s talking about, but the overall scheme. Yes, you can run a cover 2 from any set. But the Cover 2 Defense (also called the Tampa 2 from where it originated) demands different personnel and is designed specifically to run multiple variations on a 2 deep coverage. It’s almost exclusively run from a 4 man front, but the emphasis is on speed at all positions in the front 7, as opposed to a base 4-3, where you are looking for a couple space eaters, a run-stuffer at the strong-side DE, and beefy LB’s.

The Cover 2 uses CB’s that are more safety types (smart, great ball skills, not as physically gifted with speed or quickness as other CB’s), and 2 guys that can play the traditional FS position, because they rarely have an in the box safety unless it’s a quirky variation of the coverage (dropping a CB deep and having the safety play the flats, for instance). In a regular 4-3, you will have CB’s that can play man-to-man, a traditional FS, and an in-the-box strong safety serving as an extra LB at times.

So, while you are right that the cover 2 itself is a part of every defense, there is also a Cover 2 scheme that teams have used. Yes, they use a 4-3 front, but they do not play a traditional 4-3 system, so that is why the Cover 2 is in this poll.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 25, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well said Rec'd!

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by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand where you're coming from

But I voted 3-4 just because it has more versatility than the 4-3. Obviously, the two different sets emphasize certain positions more than others, but overall the 3-4 gives you more options in terms of disguising blitzes and coverages. If you ask any offensive linemen which scheme is harder to block, they’ll tell you the 3-4 simply because of the ability to hide where the rush is coming from/who’s dropping into coverage.

Ideally though, I think a hybrid defense is the best where you switch from 3-4 to 4-3 depending on the situation. Oh, what do you know, that’s what we have now :)

Yes, we drafted almost entirely defense. Yes, I'm fine with that. A great defense can take your team incredibly far.

by Dolphinole on Jun 25, 2010 2:22 PM EDT reply actions  

I put 3-4 but don't hat the idea of a 4-3

I think that 3-4 is wilder and keeps other teams on their toes. But I do think that our D as of right now( I need to see if player can play in new roles or not) would be better in a 4-3. Cam and Misi as DE’s so they don’t have to learn how to play standing up and be affective pass rushers. Starks and Odrick as DT. Anderson, Dansby as our OLB’s because an OLB in a 4-3 is about the same as a 3-4 MLB and Dansby knows how to rush. And then what ever MLB you want to play.

by KOdy the KIng on Jun 25, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL
I put 3-4 but don’t hat the idea of a 4-3

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
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by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your not a hatter

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
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by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he is!

Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
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by texascowpunk on Jun 25, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your not a hatter

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
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Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some one who isnt around anymore

stopped posting.

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm voting for the 3-4 based on versatility

I believe the 3-4 is harder to gameplan against and I think the 3-4 is easier to draft.

by The Earl on Jun 25, 2010 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, I love the 3-4

but the 3-4 is harder to drat simply because the vast, vast majority of college teams run a 4-3 base, meaning in order to draft for a 3-4 you have to speculate a front 7 player’s ability to transition to a new position most likely

by kozam9707 on Jun 25, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is true

it is harder to find 3-4 players in the draft, because you are looking for tweeners, or guys who have certain skills instead of being able to judge on production.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 25, 2010 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

More colleges are switching to undersized DEs however...

College DEs anymore are prototypical 3-4 OLBs. I’m not saying any position is easy to draft for. But many 4-3 DEs in college now would never succeed as a 4-3 DEs in the NFL because they simply aren’t big enough. Look at some of the more successful DEs in the NFL: Mario Williams 6’6" 295, Justin Tuck 6’5" 274, Jared Allen 6’6" 270. Now look at some of the top college DEs available in the 2010 draft: Jerry Hughes 6’2" 255, Sergio Kindle 6’3" 250, Brandon Graham 6’1" 268, Derrick Morgan 6’3" 268, Jason Pierre-Paul 6’6" 270, Jason Worilds 6’1" 254, Koa Misi 6’3" 251.

Most of the top DEs in this year’s draft were less than ideal height and/or weight to be a great NFL DE. I’m not suggesting that any of the them will be busts. My point is that colleges are going with smaller DEs now and that fits the 3-4 better than the 4-3. If you were a GM and you were running a 3-4, you would have more choices and versatility than your 4-3 counterpart. That’s why I think the 3-4 is now easier to draft.

by The Earl on Jun 25, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

different positions though

Williams, Tuck, and Allen all play on the strong-side for the most part. This year’s DE class was heavy in weakside DE’s, in the Dwight Freeney mold.

In 09, Orakpo was 260, Robert Ayers was 274. 08 had Chris Long at 275, Derrick Harvey at 280, Lawrence Jackson at 270, and Calais Campbell at 290. those guys are out there, but they are rare, which is why a freak like Williams went 1st overall (although teams definitely missed on Tuck and Allen).

Also, 3 of the guys you listed are right in that 270lb range, so the big 4-3 DE’s are still out there. Most 4-3 teams, however, do not have a 275+lb DE. That guy is playing DT in a 4-3 defense.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 25, 2010 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Williams, Allen, and Freeney all play the right side...

Orakpo played very well, but played in the 2-point stance some and is now going to be a 3-4 OLB. Ayers struggled in the 3-4. Long, Harvey, and Jackson haven’t really done anything yet. Campbell is an end in the 3-4.

I don’t really disagree that the 4-3 is also hard to draft for. I just think that since the 3-4 is more versatile, that you can therefore draft more versatile.

by The Earl on Jun 25, 2010 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying they are great 4-3 DE's in the pros

just that guys with that body-type and skill-set are out there. Obviously they don’t all work out, my point was just that there are guys out there, it’s not a disappearing position, just not an overly successful one the past couple seasons.

And yes, you are right that the 3-4 is more versatile, but I think the hardest part about drafting for a 3-4 is finding the NT and the OLB, coincidently the two most important positions in that defense. The Rush LB is easy to find, because that guy is just a pass rusher (Joey Porter, Cameron Wake). It’s the SOLB, because that guy needs to be the best of all worlds, big (in the 260+ range, normally), stout vs the run, good pass rusher, and good in coverage. That guy is extremely hard to find. Ditto with a NT, who is hard to find primarily because so few NCAA teams utilize a 3-4 style NT, and guys who are 320+ and athletically gifted are rare.

Outside of that, the ILB’s and DE’s are usually easy to find for the 3-4 because you are just looking for body type, it’s a fairly skill set to learn and is usually pretty common (tackling for the ILB, 2-gap run defending for the DE).

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 25, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

As usual you're absolutely right

But I still prefer the 4-3 when building a franchise. Only for the reason that it can mask a liability of certain positions. The 3-4 is harder to block I will admit that. But in terms of being competitve defensively, the 4-3 is my choice. Just because of the familiarity involved.

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by inishe8 on Jun 26, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I understand, but the best Ds nowadays are 34s

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
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Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 26, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

The lead sacker in NCAA football last year was 235-240

that is a 34 OLB

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

most sack guys are in the 240-260 range

those are the speed rushers for the most part, and they usually project well to the 3-4 OLB as well as the 4-3 DE. The 280+ sack artists are rare, because those guys aren’t usually the athletic freaks that possess the speed to torture a OT.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 25, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the sack leaders are usually in the more athletic 34 OLB mold vs.

the bigger 43 DE

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 3-4 OLB is more like the 4-3 DE,

the 3-4 has the big DEs, and it is either a OLB, or 4-3 DE that is at the top of the passrushers, the 2 best passrushers over the last decade or more were both 4-3 DEs, Jason Taylor and Michael Strahan.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I voted 3-4

because I believe it is a better scheme when you have the right personnel. The front 7 in a 3-4 is much bigger than in a 4-3, and that size difference leads it to being a better run defense IMO.

The size difference comes from the 3-4 having 1 player 320+lbs normally, 2 others at 290+, one around 260+, and 3 around 240+. Our front 7 this year, our smallest starter will be 250lb Cameron Wake.
In a 4-3, you probably have 1 guy at 300+, 1 at 280ish, 2 in the 250-260 range, 2 in the 240 range, and one at SS size about 225-230.

The 3-4 also allows for more dynamic blitzes (based on more LB’s) and a much tougher read for the OL on who’s coming. It lends itself to a more varied zone blitz scheme as well, because the OLB’s have an easier time dropping into coverage than does a 4-3 DE.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 25, 2010 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

The 3-4 also allows for more dynamic blitzes (based on more LB’s) and a much tougher read for the OL on who’s coming. It lends itself to a more varied zone blitz scheme as well, because the OLB’s have an easier time dropping into coverage than does a 4-3 DE.

EXACTLY why I voted 3-4. Couldn’t have said it better.

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by Kevin Nogle on Jun 25, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanx for your input. You always have good points.....

But I propose this question to you. When the switch was mwde from 4-3 to 3-4 were you happy? Because honestly it kinda bothered me. I’m not trying to call you out , just wanted to ask your honest opinion.

inishe8 = initiate
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by inishe8 on Jun 26, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was happy because I thought our LB's were better fits in the 3-4 (Porter and Crowder in particular)

Zach and JT were great in the 4-3, and that defense played to their strengths, which is usually the best strategy when you have special players, but their time here was running short, and the players around them were better suited to the 3-4, so I thought it was a good move. It paid off with Porters huge season in 08, playing back in the D he was comfortable with, and he was a huge part of us winning the division, so I actually think it was a good switch.

I honestly think that the personnel on your team should dictate your scheme, because you’ll never start with a clean slate and build from the ground up. You have to choose a defense that fits into the best interests of your best players, so they can be successful.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 26, 2010 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about the personnel being better suited for the 3-4

It bothered me from a traditional standpoint. I know ZT and JT were at their respective ends. But I was hoping the FO would keep them around, and a 3-4 signaled the end of their era. Crowder was a solid player in either scheme, but I honestly never liked Porter.

inishe8 = initiate
I meant what I said. And I said what I meant. Phin fan faithful 100%
I swear it don't cost much, to pay attention to me; I tell it how it is then I tell it how it could be. (Andre 3000 - Outkast)

by inishe8 on Jun 26, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

I agree mostly,

just that 4-3 is usually the better run D scheme, in the 3-4 your d lineman are bigger per man, but the 4-3 line is still bigger with usually 2 300lb+ DTs in the middle.

Look at our team, we usually had 2 300lb + DTs, a 270 or so guy on the strong side, and a 260 JT, also 2 240+ OLBs, and that 630lbs of beef in the middle really clogs that area up.

Totally agree about everything else.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

the difference is that the 3-4 can have 3 guys at 300lbs or more

the 4-3 usually has 1, sometimes 2. Over all, the 4-3 is smaller up front than the 3-4. The biggest difference in the run game though, is that the 3-4 is usually a 2 gap scheme, requiring guys to take on a block and cover the gaps to either side, while the 4-3 is a 1 gap scheme only asking the players to get into a gap and close it down. The 4-3 is easier to play vs the run because of that, but the 3-4 is more effective when run right because you get more guys to the ball. 2-3 guys can get to the gap where the ball is, as opposed to 1 or 2 in the 4-3.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 28, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Our d line is about 900 lbs,

for a decade or so our line was 1150lbs +, in the 4-3, the 4-3 line is definitely bigger, and especially in the middle, which is where you control the run game, that is why the NT is such a critical position in the 3-4, he has to do the job of 2 almost, the 3-4 is faster, a more pursuit style defense with more smaller players.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's wrong

of course the 4-3 line is bigger, there’s 1 extra guy. The front 7 is bigger in a 3-4. The 3-4 has one guy who is ideally 320+, 2 more guys pushing 300, one guy at 260-270, and the other 3 at 250. The 4-3 doesn’t match up size-wise. 2 300’s, 2 at 250+. The LB’s are small, especially the WILL backer who is usually in the 225 range. Total weight of the down linemen is deceiving, because the 4-3 has more down linemen. Total weight of the front 7 is tipped in favor of the 3-4.

And you have it backwards, the 4-3 is the speed defense, using smaller players to cover more field. It’s a one gap scheme allowing players to shoot gaps and use their speed to make plays. The 3-4 requires the DL to play 2 gaps, they can’t be smaller players.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 28, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point I would make,

is that you keep describing the Tampa 2, with 250 lb ends, we never had 250lb ends, nor do any traditional 4-3s, what your describing is more the cover 2.

Look at our past SS DE’s in the 4-3, Jeff Cross, Trace armstrong, Kenny Mixon and Matt Roth, all 270 + guys, JT played at around 260 on the other side, thats 4 guys at 260 at least with their hand on the ground, 4LBs cover more ground than 3, its just simple math actually.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok sorry

10 lbs makes the difference? Where does the rest of the size come in? The 4-3 LB’s do not match up size-wise, and the two 4-3 DE’s match up size-wise with the two 3-4 OLB’s. The 3-4 is, plain and simple, a bigger defense, despite the fact that there is one less DL. It isn’t based on speed and pursuit, the 4-3 is. The difference is in the 2-gap scheme of the 3-4, vs the 1-gap scheme of a 4-3. You don’t base a 2-gap defense on speed, because you end up losing every game.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 28, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is more mobile with 4 LBs,

and back to the point, the 4-3 is a better run D scheme because DTs are easy to find compared to NTs, and you have 600 + lbs of beef controlling the middle of the line, and if you control the middle you can control the run game.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait a second

how can the scheme be better because the players are easier to find? If I find the players I need for the 3-4, I’m going to have a better run D than if you find the players for your 4-3. I understand the control the middle argument, but you have to remember, I’m able to control both A gaps with 1 guy, freeing up 6 other guys to control the rest of the line. It takes 2 guys for you to control both A gaps, leaving you only 5. You may have more combined beef in the middle, but I have more combined beef in my front 7.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 28, 2010 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

But 2 DTs

can take 3 or 4 lineman every play, DT is easier to play than NT, NT is like an advanced DT, ask Zach why he was able to excel, Bowens, Gardener, Chester and Traylor, those guys took up so much space in the middle it was easy pickins for a talent like him.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's fine

My 1 NT is guaranteed to take 2 every play. My 2 DT’s more than likely need to be doubled as well. The facts are there that I have 1 guy bigger than everybody on your defense, and 2 other guys bigger than everyone except 1. All 4 of my LB’s are bigger than every one of your LB’s, and quite possibly bigger than 1 or both of your DE’s, depending on the personnel. The fact that it’s close demonstrates why the 3-4 is, more often than not, a bigger defense. Size in the front 7 is how you stop a power running game, and the 3-4 very simply has more size.

And like I said, it takes you 2 players to do what 1 does for me, which is keep blockers off the LB’s.

Side note, it feels good to disagree again, all is well with the world lol

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 28, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its like a warm bath, lol

but no, your NT takes 2, my DTs take 3 or 4, in the center, control, just like the control I have in this disagreement, ha, I have no trouble saying that, lol

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

but you are wrong

From OT to OT, I have 3 DL, you have 2. Once we expand outside the A gaps, I win.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 29, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

WIN!^^^^^^^^^^^^

Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
Now riding in First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.

by texascowpunk on Jun 29, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not so much,

The 34 is a much better Defense than a 43, if you got the right players. Look at Baltimore and the Steelers

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 29, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he played the Jersey Shore card and that trumps all.

Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
Now riding in First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.

by texascowpunk on Jun 30, 2010 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

nothing trumps logic

Note to self: Read the fanshots!
-Pulse of the Maggots- P.o.t.M.
Driving the Evan Royster and Allen Bradford Rock 'N Roll Train!
Mosul, check it out! http://www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/

by PotM on Jun 30, 2010 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except for the Jersey Shore card.

After that nothing that was actually said in the debate even matters anymore.

Be sure to visit Mosul's new blog at www.mosuldolfan.blogspot.com/
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
"I'd rather be a dead Gram Parsons than a live Garth Brooks"-Kinky Friedman
Now riding in First Class on the "DRAFT LaRON BYRD IN 2011" Airbus A380.

by texascowpunk on Jun 30, 2010 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

How about HYBRID 3-4 AND 4-3 have our cake and eat it too!

Jared Odrick 6-5 304 DL & Tim Dobbins 6-1 246 ILB & Koa Misi 6-3 251 LOLB
Brandon Marshall 6-4 230 WR; John Jerry 6-5 328 LG; AJ Edds 6-3 247 LILB
Nolan Carroll 5-11 204 CB & Rashad Jones 6-1 214 S; Chris McCoy 6-3 244 ROLB; Austin Spitler RILB 6-2 243; Pet Cat:Chris "He's the REAL" McCoy 6-3 244

by DolphDallas on Jun 25, 2010 4:33 PM EDT reply actions  

good points

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by inishe8 on Jun 26, 2010 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

The truth is,

that is all that there is anymore, no one runs a straight 3-4, our FO runs a hybrid, we ran a hybrid under Saban, its not new.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

there is a reason why so many teams are making the transition to the 3-4 defense

its just better

but for the personnel that we have on our team, for us, we should be a hybrid (mike nolan style)

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by finzrule on Jun 25, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I like a hybrid 3-4/4-3 defense...

     I like what they are trying to do actually… because it is not a crazy idea, but they seem to be getting all the right personnel to make it all work. The reason I have heard that they like the 3-4 more than the 4-3 is it allows you to have more LBs on your roster which are more useful on special teams than having extra D-lineman, that wouldn’t be able to contribute on special teams.
     I still hold to the belief that they saw something in Odrick and wanted him first. They also wanted Misi in the second and they expected Terrence Cody to drop to the 3rd because they felt like the teams that needed a NT would have already picked their guy. After day 1 of the draft Ireland wouldn’t elaborate on what the plan was for Odrick, he said that he could play NT or DE. I don’t think they counted on the Ravens picking up a NT when they had a young guy that they felt filled that position in Ngata. I think the idea was to possibly draft Odrick, and Misi who they felt were 3 down players and come back and draft Cody in the 3rd round since he is a 2 down player and they felt he was the guy they really wanted out of the NTs available.
     At the end of day 2 is when they came out with the plan for moving Starks to NT, which to me seemed more like an contingency plan instead of what they were hoping would happen. I definately think we still came out pretty well, but it would have been really nice to get that true NT that we are lacking. I also think that when they asked Sparano about Cody that he mentioned that he would have to lose some weight for him, he was lying just like he had been taught to….
     You can’t tell me that John Jerry was the plan for the 3rd round because now we essentially have 4 guys competing for those 2 starting spots. I think he was the best guy on the board and they made the move—good move. Now we have some depth in the interior line that we desperately needed and you can never have too many of those guys.
     You can’t really say that moving Starks in to NT is a bad move for Starks. If he suceeds, it means more money for him, because there is a premium on NTs and not really as much for 3-4 DEs. If we were running a 4-3 then the premium would be on a DE, but he would be moving over to play DT.
     While I don’t like not having the option of a big moose to play that NT spot, this defense could definately work pretty well, and I have to say I am excited to see what Nolan can throw at offenses…. we will have to see if the move works out…

when does the season start.....

by Jason Scott_90 on Jun 25, 2010 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Also...

I think the key to being able to run that hybrid is getting guys are a little bit smaller as a NT that can play the NT in a 3-4, but also move over and be effective at DT in a 4-3… That is why it makes sense to get a guy more in the mold of a Jay Ratliff… I still think it would have been good to have the option of throwing a Vince Wilfork style NT in there on pure running downs though…

when does the season start.....

by Jason Scott_90 on Jun 25, 2010 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like JJ, I think that they will cut Carey after the games, but before the new season

and CBA. Then, move JJ over to RT if he doesn’t get the starting job at RG. (I think LG: Mr. Incuspicuous and RG: D. Thomas)

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by PotM on Jun 25, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was kinda hoping that was the plan for Jerry all along ...

I really am not big on V Carey and I think we only resigned him after we exhausted all our other options at RT. He is servicable, but it seems like he takes plays off or something, and it always leads to a big play for the defense.

when does the season start.....

by Jason Scott_90 on Jun 26, 2010 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. He is also due 3.4ish mil in 2011

but this season he gets 600K

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by PotM on Jun 26, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good Post... Good comments....

Good thing we’re running the Hybrid…… With a master mind at the helm……. I’m sure we’re going to see tons of confusing set ups this season….. Base the scheme on what ever team you’re playing

I do miss the Zach days though……

by Rickslilpiece on Jun 26, 2010 7:49 AM EDT reply actions  

i voted other as i beleive the hybrid nolan uses employs both schemes, but i will also say that if starks gets hurt, while fergie is still on suspension, then we have no choice but a 4-3, with that in mind, that was the main reason in keeping j taylor in miami as he
was effective in both but stronger in a 4-3 and manning de along with odrick wud of been trouble for opposing defenses.

by fin4three5yrs on Jun 26, 2010 9:26 AM EDT reply actions  

My personal opinion

I always have felt that at the NFL level it is much easier to be solid with a 4-3 defense, but a 3-4 defense has a much higher ceiling. In other words it takes much longer to rebuild a defense with a 3-4, but when you get there you have a better shot to reach the super bowl. A good 3-4 is completely unpredictable,and extremely versatile. Some of you guys whom have been demending 4-3 switch this offseason. To those I would say we are much closer to reaching that elite 3-4 defense than most of you think and Mike Nolan will only speed up the process. I think that we have found a 3-4 NT, two DEs,SSOLB,WOLB, one ILB, and two corners. The only missing pieces that we have as a 3-4 defense is maybe one ILB (not confident in Crowder or Dobbins as the starter), and a free safety.

by vaneasy2338 on Jun 27, 2010 5:22 PM EDT reply actions  

4-3

I must admit, I miss the great 4-3 defenses, although I realize in the modern game the 3-4 really gives you the versatility you need to contend with all these complex formations that you face. However, I did love the days of the great front 4s, the Rams of the 60s, Vikings of the 70s, and the Steelers of the 70s as well. Four great linemen that could dominate and really make plays, not just take up blockers the way they’re required to do in a 3-4. In a 3-4 it’s almost impossible to have that game changing DE anymore, for the most part now he’s a 300 pounder who’s responsible for two gaps so it’s really hard for him to dominate the way a Deacon Jones or Carl Eller could. It’s too bad, but a sign of the times.

by Biggest Dolphin Fan on Jun 28, 2010 4:42 AM EDT reply actions  

4-3 all the way..................

I just saw this post. And I totally agree(no surprise) all the best Defenses in DOLPHIN HISTORY were 4-3 based. 1970’s ERA Superbowl championships ??? 4-3…. Best modern era defense ? Jimmie johnson’s 4-3 Bowens, Gardner, Taylor, armstrong upfront … Zach in the middle – surtain and Madison in the secondary…. It was the best defense we have fielded in a LONG time (while in their prime)

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by 62Lou on Jun 28, 2010 9:59 AM EDT reply actions  

it depends on your personnel

since 01 (10 Super Bowls), the Super Bowl winning team has run a 3-4 six times, a Cover 2 twice, and a 4-3 twice. So the 3-4 has taken teams to championships 3x as much as any other defense in the last 10 years.

oh, and btw, the 72 team actually ran a hybrid defense, called the “53” defense, because Bob Matheson (#53) played DE when we were in a 4-3 set, and OLB when we played a 3-4. So we’ve essentially come full circle from the 72 season, bringing the hybrid D back.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 28, 2010 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have been a fan a long time,

I remember screaming to change to the 4-3, and vise versa, I no longer have a preference, I truly appreciate both scheme’s, with the turn towards a more wide open passing game in the NFL I think the 3-4 has its advantages, if run properly it is a great blitz hide scheme, and the passrush can come from anywhere, which can really screw up a passing team.

by uncle finster on Jun 28, 2010 10:47 AM EDT reply actions  

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