Dolphins Game Changing Offseason Moves: The draft day trade
by Matty I on Apr 30, 2010 12:15 AM EDT
in 2012 Miami Dolphins News
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Sponsored Post: This post is presented by Sprint. Bringing you the first wireless 4G network from a national carrier. Only on the Now Network.
In the first installment of our Sprint sponsored posts two weeks ago, I highlighted the acquisition of Brandon Marshall as one of Miami's "game changing" moves this offseason. For this next one, I want to go a different direction.
I think that one of the aspects of last week's draft that has been overlooked was the Dolphins' decision to trade down in round one. Sure, we've obviously talked about it. But we haven't really discussed the long-term effects of the deal. So let's do that.
Back in 2007, the Dolphins passed on Brady Quinn to select Ted Ginn. We knew that day that those two players would forever be linked in the minds of Dolphin fans. As it turns out, neither player has developed into a first-round worthy player in the NFL.
Last weekend, the Dolphins have an opportunity to select their choice of pass-rusher from the 2010 class. No pass-rushing outside linebackers were taken yet when the Dolphins were on the clock with the 12th pick. They could have also selected safety Earl Thomas - filling the void at free safety with the second rated safety available on most boards and a top 15 overall talent according to most.
The Dolphins instead went another route, opting to recoup the second round pick they lost in the Marshall trade and then drafting Jared Odrick and Koa Misi in the first 40 picks. So be prepared - the Odrick/Misi combination will forever be linked to all of the pass rushers the Dolphins could have had at pick #12. And if Earl Thomas becomes a star at free safety, I'm sure we will all hear about that, too, very often.
There are reports floating out there that the Dolphins actually coveted Koa Misi so much that they centered their draft around him. Considering that the Dolphins turned their card in for pick #40 very quickly, there's got to be some truth to that. And if that is the case, it's likely that the Dolphins just see Odrick as one hell of a bonus.
It's interesting to note, though, that the four picks immediately following the Dolphins' original draft slot of #12 were all players that had to be on Miami's draft radar: Brandon Graham, Earl Thomas, Jason Pierre-Paul, and Derrick Morgan. We also can't forget their decision to pass on Jerry Hughes at #28 as well. So with all this said, it's easy to see some truth to the idea that Misi was who the Dolphins built their 2010 draft around.
Was that a smart thing to do? Only time will tell for sure.
The bottom line? Let's talk "net gain" for a moment. The Dolphins end up with Brandon Marshall, Jared Odrick, and Koa Misi. The cost? A 16 slot drop in round one of 2010 and a 2011 second round pick. That's not too shabby at all.
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I love the fact that we recouped our 2nd round pick for Marshall and still got a possibly good OLB in Misi
Brandon Marshall!!! Next stop SuperBowl!!!
Master Phinja, accepting anybody to the clan!!!
IT SIMPLY IS ALL ABOUT THE U!!!
"You wanna get high man? Does howdy doody have wooden balls?"
- Cheech & Chong - Up in Smoke -
I'll eat my hat if we were seriously targetting Pierre-Paul.
Bust-O-Rama. Plus, the front office was looking for immediate production, not project at #12 overall.
The Dolphins are back! We've got a new team, we're Super Bowl bound, and they can't touch us!
by Chad Henne is Your New Bicycle on Apr 30, 2010 12:21 AM EDT reply actions
Wow thats interesting..
knowing that they held Koa in such high regard makes me very very excited to see this guy out there..
I really dont see much more than Matt Roth when I watch film on Misi
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Apr 30, 2010 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Well a lot of the film on Misi
it shows him line up at several different positions, so he wasn’t rushing off the edge as much as most DEs. They had him rushing as a DT often and they dropped him into coverage a lot as an ILB. But when he was rushing off the edge, he showed some pretty decent explosion. I think one of the main reasons the FO likes him so much is his versatility….
Misi's film wasn't super impressive, but i always try
and remember the saying that Sparano repeats often, it’s not the best 53 they are looking for but the right 53… I guess Misi fits what they are looking for
I thnk the drop was terrific.
I would much rather have Odrick and Misi than Earl Thomas, etc..
(We may regret taking Odrick over Jerry Hughes once we DID trade down, but that’s a separate issue.)
Minor quibble:
“The bottom line? Let’s talk “net gain” for a moment. The Dolphins end up with Brandon Marshall, Jared Odrick, and Koa Misi. The cost? A 16 slot drop in round one of 2010 and a 2011 second round pick. That’s not too shabby at all."
Isn’t this wrong? Shouldn’t it be: “The Dolphins end up with Brandon Marshall, Jared Odrick, and Koa Misi. The cost? A 16 slot drop in round one of 2010 and 2010 and 2011 second round picks.”
Right? We had two firsts and two seconds in 2010 and 2011. Three of those are gone for Marshall, Odrick and Misi.
And well worth it!
Yo did we get a lbacker from SD. also or no i'm haveing flashbacks of a nitemare on elmstreet again????
by wild zion beaver on Apr 30, 2010 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't even waste time trying to survive
You’ll get killed in the sequel anyways.
Behold! Diet Coke, the answer to all health problems!
Tim Dobbins
ILB depth player we got from SD.
by NakedBootlegger on Apr 30, 2010 7:43 AM EDT up reply actions
no
we recovered our second round pick
that’s the point…….we actually moved up in round 2 when all was said and done
Yes, but.....
The second round pick we gave up for Marshall was still gone. I love the trade for Marshall, I personally think we stole him, but the fact reamins that had we NOT traded for him and STILL traded down in the first round (another move I loved) we would have had 2 second round picks.
right but we regained it and actually got a better pick in round 2 than what we had
so its really just like we moved up in round 2, so the 2 2nd round picks cancel out
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Apr 30, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
No. See below.
We used our original 1st and 2nd this year and 2nd next year to get those three guys.
There is no other way to count it. Under your scenario our original 2nd rounder this year isn’t accounted for at all.
But...
We had four picks in the first two rounds (this year and next).
Now we have one.
The cost, in total, for Marshall and Odrick and Misi was one first and two seconds, not one first and one second.
“The Dolphins end up with Brandon Marshall, Jared Odrick, and Koa Misi. The cost? A 16 slot drop in round one of 2010 and a 2011 second round pick.”
Those three guys cost us (and well worth it) our first and second this year and our second next year.
Marshall cost us our two seconds and we got Odrick and Misi for one 1st round pick.
Your scenario does not account for our 2nd round pick this year at all.
Those three picks are gone and in return we got those three players.
Damn good post
I am sooo stoked about the trades, aquisitions and draft picks!!
Special Teams was also the beneficiary in the draft.
And let’s not forget that the team also upgraded a coaching position at Defensive Coordinator in Mike Nolan….
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Heck yeah!
I like that the defense will be more aggressive.
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
i dont know bout that
but i do think we got a steal with jones considering he was projected as a 3rd round pick
they play different positions
i just would like Jones to supplant Bell in a year or so
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Apr 30, 2010 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions
For me the bottom line keeps coming to this,
we got a the top prospect in the draft, at an important position, and to me Koa Misi was the throw in, they may have coveted Misi, I’m not speaking against it, just how it shakes out to me.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
i look at it like this..
we got this offseason…
Brandon Marshall
Karlos Dansby
Jared Odrick
Koa Misi
A.J. Edds
John Jerry
Richie Incognito
Reshad Jones
all of which are starters or have a good chance of being starters.
plus Koa Misi is a leader, he’s intense, he works hard, he’s athletic. i think he’ll turn out to be a better OLB than Hughes would have been. i will give Hughes he’s a better pass rusher. but when it comes to overall skills to play 3-4 OLB, i think Misi is more well rounded, i think he will be as good or better than Hughes
by phinfan20 on Apr 30, 2010 1:31 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
and does anyone know if Miami is interested in Sharper???
they still need a FS
by phinfan20 on Apr 30, 2010 1:34 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
WHY?! we have Culver and Clemons... oh i see your point
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Apr 30, 2010 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Shaper resigned with the Saints for one year
Doesn’t matter anymore.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on May 4, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You can watch him in the SUGAR BOWL where Utah plays Alabama via Hulu.com
I watched the entire game scouting Sean Smith, but you can see Koa Misi making some plays.
He didn’t register any sacks, but he did apply constant pressure, causing one interception IIRC
Jared Odrick 6-5 304 DL & Tim Dobbins 6-1 246 ILB & Koa Misi 6-3 251 LOLB
Brandon Marshall 6-4 230 WR; John Jerry 6-5 328 LG; AJ Edds 6-3 247 LILB
Nolan Carroll 5-11 204 CB & Rashad Jones 6-1 214 S; Chris McCoy 6-3 244 ROLB; Austin Spitler RILB 6-2 243; Pet Cat: Jonathan Amaya 6-0 203 FS
by DolphDallas on Apr 30, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
FS
O.J. is going to be a Dolphin that is why we didn’t draft a FS. He is one of the best in the league and the Ram’s didn’t even care. We welcome you OJ. Reshad Jone was drafted as a replacement for Bell. Bell has been great over the years but has a history of Injury. Unless Clemons has a ace of spades he is not the starter.
I forgot
Misi wasn’t drafted because he is the best pass rusher he was drafted because he is the most well rounded and NFL ready to contribute on both run and pass downs. We have all the pas rush any one needs in Wake. We need someone who can do both.
Well, you can never have too many pass rushers...
But I agree with you on Misi, he is well-rounded and ready to start for us at SOLB. As far as O.J. goes, I have to imagine we are running out of cap room (looking at 2011 here), but I can’t say for sure….anyone have an idea where we might be cap-wise going into 2011? Probably not if there is going to be a new CBA. Sounds like O.J. would be a nice addition if we can afford him.
Atogwe would be great if we can get him.
I don’t know how much we would need to pay him to have him sign though. He was due to make around $7 million this year since he was franchised last year before he got tendered. Since he’s coming off an injury and the Rams tendered him to the lowest amount, we can probably get him for less than the $7 million.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
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Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
by Chupathingy on Apr 30, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
And don't be surprised next year to see them make a trade to recoup that pick as well.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I don't know many teams that will want to trade for the 32nd overall pick....
Just wishful thinking…
by WestMichiganWildcats on Apr 30, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say we would trade down........
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
3 important notes:
1) Its very important to note that the pass rushers we could have taken at 12 or 28 ended up in 4-3 defenses. JPP, Graham, Morgan & Hughes were the only 4 pass rushers taken in the 1st round. These guys went to teams where they will play with there hand on the ground, and not standing up like they would here. While its possible one or more of these guys may end up with better sack stats than Misi, they also will not have as much responsibility as Misi. You have to account for that when evaluating this pick.
2) The 4 pass rushers taken were all hands on the ground rushers in college. And while they have had success in college as pass rushers, that doesn’t always translate to NFL success. Throw in the fact that if we had taken one of them, they would have to switch positions, which increases the chances of being a bust. But Misi on the other hand played 4 different positions in college. He played DT, DE, OLB, and even ILB. He has played with his hands on the ground, but also from a standing LB position. He’s more familiar with the LB position than the other 4, save for maybe Hughes. So even though he’s not assured of NFL success, he’s probably the more prepared to take on the 3-4 OLB position than a guy who has played with his hand in the dirt most of the time.
3) Had we taken a guy at 12, the lack of a second round pick would have handicapped us. We had multiple needs that needed to be addressed early. Had we drafted at 12, we would have been waiting until the third round to start filling other needs. By trading down, we were able to get back into the second round and filled essentially 3 positions of need with 2 picks!
Bold prediction: Our defense will finish the season rated better than the Jets defense.
by The Earl on Apr 30, 2010 9:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Awesome post!
Does anybody know which NY area Burger King Vernon Ghoulson will be working at soon?
Hahahahahahaha Jets!!!!!!
Well said
I also think trading down helps us in the cap. Pick 28 makes less than pick 12. Not sure how much different but it has to be a few mil over the contract.
by Ralph In Michigan on Apr 30, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of player tied together. Break down of trades
Here is a little information on the trades of the lower round picks and how we got them.
Pick (point value of pick) The pick to value radio is what say GM’s use when making trades in terms of value. I think this is the Jimmy Johnson value chart.
Carroll Nolan ((pick 145 (33.5)) and Ginn ((pick 9 (1350)) could be tied together in comparisons of value. (Don’t beat me up; Ginn was a bust in value)
Edds:
I think we over paid for him in trade value. We trade pick 126 (46) and 179 (20.8) for pick 119 (56).
Reshad Jones:
We traded pick 174 (22.8) and 219 (4.8) to get pick 163 (27.2).
Pick 174 is what we got from KC in the Alleman and Ndukew trade
McCoy:
When we traded Josh McCown to Carolina in 2008 we received pick 237 (1.7) in the 2009 draft. In the 2009 draft we traded that pick to KC for their 2010 7th round pick which ended up being the 212 (7.6) pick. The pick we took McCoy with.
The 6th round pick that we got from the Redskins in the Jason Taylor trade was part of the San Diego trade, so no direct ties there.
Value of SD trade:
We gave up Pick 12 (660), pick 110 (74), and pick 173 (23.2) value is 1297.2.
We received Pick 28 (660), pick 40 (500), pick 126 (46) and Dobbins value is 1206.
The value of Dobbins to equal up the two would have to be pick 102 (91) in the 4th round.
Hopefully he is.
by Ralph In Michigan on Apr 30, 2010 12:52 PM EDT reply actions
Don't forget Dobbins
We wake & blunder on, / wiser, on the whole, / but not more accurate.
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Matty, didn't we move up a couple of spots in the second?
I believe we did, so it might be worth putting in with the net losses you mentioned
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Trading down was the smart move
The only player that would have been worth taking at #12 would have been Earl Thomas. If we had a 2nd round pick then we probably would have made him our pick. All the other players that were discussed could have gone anywhere between 15 to 45 depending upon a team’s needs. I wrote a seperate post about trading down and the FO wisely got us the players that we need to make us an excellent team. We will be going to the Playoffs this season. I believe that we had the best off season of anyone in the NFL. We got Marshall, Dansby, and our draft picks. Our most important acquisition was getting Coach Nolan. Go Fins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If we get a second rounder next year we essentially got Brandon Marshall for free.
Well, depending on what we trade to get a second rounder
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Misi
People who are expecting Misi to be a 10-12 sack a season guy for us are missing the point. He’s not so much a sack specialist as he is a very good all- round LB. He’ll probably play SOLB for us so he’ll be covering backs and TEs and setting the edge in the run game against TEs. He’ll probably be sent on an occasional blitz, but don’t expect him to be constantly rushing the passer. You’ll be disappointed if that’s your expectation. The majority of our pass pressures will be coming from the weak side with Cam Wake. I believe the combination of Odrick and moving Starks inside will improve the rush from our front three as well. Nobody has mentioned the inevitable improvement in pass rush at the NT position that Starks will provide. People are going to be shocked at just how good Odrick really is, I hope his presence will light a fire under Merling as well. Getting back to Misi, think of a Teddy Brusci-Mike Vrabel type player. Tough, smart, non-stop motor who gives it everything on every play. A total effort player who makes few mistakes, doesn’t miss tackles or blow coverages. In other words, the total opposite of what we had at LB last season! So don’t get caught up in the trap that a lot of people do by grading a LB solely on sack stats, they can be very deceptive. Porter and JTs sack totals were respectable last year, but their overall play was sub-par, that’s why their not here any longer. Don’t get hung up on sacks, it’s infinitely more important what you do on the other 800 snaps you’re in there. Watch the little things this year, like how does he jam a TE, hold up on the edge in the running game, does he lose containment? Can he stay with a quick RB on a circle route out of the backfield? These are all things our LBs had trouble with last year, Misi will be a great improvement over what we had last year.
by Biggest Dolphin Fan on May 4, 2010 12:33 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Well said....
Rec’d
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
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