What's next for Dolphins in free agency?
by Matty I on Mar 9, 2010 12:15 AM EST
in 2012 Miami Dolphins News
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PrintWith safety Ryan Clark re-signing with the Steelers, many Dolphin fans have been left pondering where the Dolphins will turn next in free agency. Now don't get me wrong, the uneasy feeling I have right now has nothing to do with me loving Clark so much that I'm disappointed we didn't sign him. In fact I said last week that I wasn't so high on Clark, writing that "Clark scares me because he might be too much like the guy we just dumped."
Some think it might be time to second guess the decision in 2008 to let safety Renaldo Hill walk and sign with Denver. That's a fair reaction, I suppose. But don't act like Hill was some great player or anything. In 2008, he was credited with allowing 21 receptions on 35 passes thrown to guys he was covering. And to me, that's not worth a 4 year, $10 million contract like the Broncos signed him to - especially at the age of 30, which he was last offseason.
Of course, Hill was at least a decent guy back there who, if nothing else, did a solid job directing Miami's secondary. He was the "quarterback of the secondary" and was the guy in charge of making adjustments at the line of scrimmage, if necessary. You can't put quantify that kind of role.
Some also think it might be time to second guess the decision to release Gibril Wilson when they did last Friday rather than waiting to see how they intended replace him. That's also a fair criticism - and one that I do agree with. At the same time, we don't know if the Dolphins might have really needed the money that was saved by Wilson's release to aid in the signing of Karlos Dansby. If that is indeed the case, then this front office did what it had to do.
But now we are left to ponder what the Dolphins will do next to address this issue. Despite filling one major need by signing Dansby, the Dolphins also now have two new big needs - one at free safety and the other at nose tackle, following Jason Ferguson's eight game suspension, if he even decides to play football in 2010.
The popular solution being thrown around by many fans is to sign restricted free agent safety O.J. Atogwe to an offer sheet. The Rams used the lowest tender on him, meaning they only have the right of first refusal (aka the ability to match the offer) but receive no draft pick compensation should St. Louis choose not to match. I'll admit that I do like Atogwe a lot. He's a very good coverage safety - exactly what the Dolphins need. He'll be just 29 when the season rolls around, too. But with the Rams having the ability to match any offer, you have to wonder how much money it would cost to sign away their former franchise player. And it's not like the Rams have dumb football people running their team. So it's a red flag, in my opinion, if a team so low on overall talent is willing to let one of their best defensive players leave with no compensation in return.
Another idea being tossed around - which I tweeted a few hours before I wrote this article - is to bring back Wilson on a far smaller contract. It's not a terrible idea. As much as we all hated him last year, perhaps he could improve now that he's familiar with his teammates and we have a guy like Mike Nolan running the defense. You never know - don't rule this possibility out. It's not like other teams are knocking down the door to meet with Gibril.
Another possible way to handle this turn of events might have nothing to do with the free safety position at all - at least not in free agency. The Dolphins could look to sign (or trade for) a player at another position of need - say nose tackle, for example - and then use an early draft pick on a free safety. As you all know, my fantasy would be for Eric Berry to land in Miami some how on draft night. More realistically, though, is Texas safety Earl Thomas. He doesn't have as high of a ceiling as Berry, in my opinion, but is a tremendous prospect in his own right. He's a ball hawk. He's fast. He makes plays. So the draft is clearly an option to fill the void at free safety. And if the Dolphins bring in a player prior to the draft at one of their other big positions of need (nose tackle, outside linebacker, wide receiver), that could give us a clue as to how they plan on addressing the FS spot.
Of course, they could also be content with a Tyrone Culver/Chris Clemons training camp competition to fill the hole at free safety. I, for one, am not totally comfortable with this. Culver has shown some flashes as a solid third safety and I think he's quite good in that role. But I haven't seen enough of him to feel confident he could start for this club.
And don't get me started on Clemons. Yes - he's a kid who has all the physical tools to be a very good safety. He's got speed. He's got hands. He seems like a solid tackler. But it takes more than that to be good at the position. The question I have about Clemons is if he's mentally ready to take on such a huge role in just his second season. He saw limited action as a rookie, too, and yet so many Dolphin fans are ready to just hand him the starting job. I don't get it. What have these fans seen out of Clemons to think he's ready to start in the NFL? Personally, I haven't seen nearly enough. And if it was a competition between Clemons and Culver, my money is definitely on Culver.
Then, of course, is the radical idea of trying to convert cornerback Will Allen to safety. It's not a terrible idea, either. But I just don't know if he'd have enough time to learn the position while he also continues his rehab from a torn ACL.
Whatever the Dolphins do to address this need, though, won't be nearly as important as the progression of Miami's two young corners. If Sean Smith and Vontae Davis continue to improve and mature, then we wouldn't have to rely on our safeties nearly as much. Hopefully these two kids are ready to step up to the next level - and quickly.
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the front office is not sold on culver or clemons…if they were, they would have never brought clark in for a visit or they would not have tried to sign rolle…i really think we need to go after atogwe…the rams will not want to get into a bidding war especially with them having to shelve out a boat load of money to the #1 pick in the draft
i dont think the rams have to go into a bidding war
all they have to do is match, im pretty sure at least. i think this is a way of being cheap. if no one bids for him they can sign him so a cheaper contract but if someone bids higher then they are forced to sign him a expensive contract, which they would have to anyways, or just let him walk. either way i think its a win/win situation, and trust me they arent going to let their best defensive player walk that easily
draft micah johnson
and im not 100% sure on that
just from what ive been reading.
correct me if im wrong
draft micah johnson
No, you're correct.
This move was exactly that, a way to save money. If they franchise him, they wind up paying more than they want. If they give him a first round tender, more than likely no one steps up and they wind up paying more than they want. By signing him to the lowest tender, they can match any offer sent his way which is bound to be less than they would have had to pay with the tag or a first round tender.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Well, the reason that
he was franchised last year was because they couldn’t agree on a deal. The word around here is that he wasn’t asking for ridiculous money, but the Rams were trying to lowball him. Part of the reason for that is that in the past 2 drafts they had either the #1 or #2 pick, and those massive contracts were hitting them hard on the cap. Now even though this is an uncapped year, they are still going to have another massive contract to give with the #1 pick, and they have to consider how that affects them for when the cap comes back.
From what I have heard, the Rams were unwilling to agree to a deal where he would get somewhere around $7 – $8 million a year. They didn’t want to pay him that much because of other contracts they had to deal with, so that’s why they put the lowest franchise tender on him. That way if nobody picked him up they could keep him for very cheap, and I think that is what they are counting on.
Also, this may have an effect on it too, but the Rams did just get a new owner. He has yet to be approved by the other owners, so at the moment it is still the old owners. Perhaps they are unwilling to spend too much money on something that they will be getting out of soon, which may be a part of the whole Atogwe thing. If we wait until June 1, the new owner should be in place and might be more willing to open up the pocket book for players.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
will allen
done.
Dan Williams 12th Overall Bandwagon: As the NFL slowly converts to a 3-4 defense, we need to consider the true value of the 3-4 NT. There are about as many stud 3-4 NT's as there are stud QB's in the NFL currently. Problem is, until this coming season, less than half of the NFL ran a 3-4... So as more teams adopt the 3-4, there will be an ever increasing void of available NT beasts, and of course a rising premium (cost) for them. Taking a franchise NT makes complete sense to me.
I kind of like him as a nickle corner
I really don’t think he is the answer at FS
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
Darren Sharper?
I think he’s pretty good right? 9 ints and 3 run back for tds this year? Sounds good to me as a two year stop gap.
I like too
Opportunistic and good against the run
He could really teach Chris Clemons a thing or two about coverage (unlike Gibril)
1st: Earl Thomas S; 2nd: Lamarr Houston NT; 3rd: Jimmy Graham TE; 4: Emmanuel Sanders WR; 6A: Arthur Jones NT; 6B: Adrian Tracy OLB; 6C: Dexter Davis OLB; 7A: Thomas Austin G/C; 7B: Scott Long WR;
If they aren't going to take Thomas or Berry (should he be available)
Then I think Sharper would be a great move….even with his age!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
anything but wilson! He could be better this year...
but it will be sooo painful to watch him miss tackle after tackle and get burned again!
GEtSICK 4 JC
Robet Johnson in the 4th would be a steal or Major Wright
meaning we could use our first pick on Williams
Chillin in the Henne ERA!!!!
"I'm not afraid to hit an old man in Public" The Hangover
Driver of the Golden Tate Limosine!!!
Who will win Terrance Cody or Rex Ryan?
"Blast" Stewie from Family Guy
I love the name Major Wright.....
Sounds nasty when he takes someones head off or runs the ball into the endzone after a spectacular INT. MAJOR WRIGHT!
by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Mar 9, 2010 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
Whats the stress?
Clemons is a 2 year old NFL player to be given the starting job and that is worrysome?, but we play with 2 Rook’s last year as CBs?
Clark sucks and we made a stupid offer that he decided to go back to Pitts, cause we offer him a 1 year deal, not a 4 year deal.
We send GW to the curb, knowing that we dont have a replacement, or do WE know that?
Chill ppl, we R good at FS. Who think our CB’s r gona strugle this year? not me btw.
Bring a dominant NT with the 12 or 15(Giants) pick and we are in heaven. Clesom, Culver or even Shamu will be fine there.
Forget about a WR for now, gave Hartline time(like this year(My 6 round pick in the fantasy, cause is gona be a steal and a beast) Only if marshall came with ONLY a 1st round.
We dont need anything else in this FA friends, we have what we needed the most and thats is Karlos. We could even take McClain and have the 2 best ILB in the league, and a nice NT in the 2dn round. OLB could be taken in the 3, there r a lot of them(btw, ZT the Master was taken on the 5th), and this FO r good at taking great D and O players in the late rounds of the draf. No worries on this boat. SB baby!!
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(23 years and counting)
by Aleta on Mar 9, 2010 1:03 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
HELL YEAH,....what he said !
SICKER THAN MOST AND NOT A MEMBER OF THE PHINSIDER HOF......
by Ohiofinfan4life on Mar 9, 2010 1:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I really do wonder if you have ever watched a Dolphins game at all.
Cause if you had watched a game last year, you would have seen how Clemons was give two chances to take the starting FS job from Wilson. Both times, he didn’t even make it through the whole game before being replaced by Wilson.
By the way, when did we get the Giants first round pick?
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
1st of alll, if our front 7 gets better..
like with the addition of a NT(a good one) and maybe an OLB, then the secondary dont have to be a top noch. We will survive with what we have. A lot of presure from the from 7 is what we need while the secondary get better. Tho we can draft a FS in the 3 round.
I didnt said we have the Giants pick, i speculated with the posibility, im sorry u feel ofended with me speculation.
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(23 years and counting)
gawl don't pay no nevermind, your on the right track. That was ezackly what i was saying last
last year with the CB’s in the safty’s spot is all, about all the pressureon the QB/
by wild zion beaver on Mar 9, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
A NT won't get a lot of pressure on the QB though
The NT can only keep the QB from stepping up.
The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
On the Draft Hernandez in 2nd Bandwagon.
Now lets go get OJ Atogwe.
The only thing you know about me is.. THATS ALL YOUR EVER KNOW!!
Screw the JETS!!!!!!!!
which is very important to the generation of pressure
and flushing him from the pocket
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 9, 2010 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, I'm not a mind reader.
If you’re speculating, you should state it. Which brings me to my next question. How is it that we obtain the Giants first round pick, while still keeping ours?
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I guess.
But that’s one hell of a speculation that we just all of a sudden get the Giants first round pick, the 15th no less. I’d like to know what he thinks we would have to give up for it, and if he took that into consideration about the extra holes it would create in the roster.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
I believe he's saying if we were to trade back with the Giants, who may want to jump up for McClain
So it would be drafting a NT with the 12th OR 15th pick, whichever one we would have.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 10, 2010 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
i would rather draft one with the 15th
and get an extra pick out of it
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
We all would but the chances are very small of that happening
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
The chance is REALLY slim,
but the Giants R desperate, look at the money they throw at Rolle lol
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(23 years and counting)
People say we threw money at Dansby
Does that make us desparate? Not arguing brother…just wondering
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 12, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
We where last year with the money we thew at Wilson
Rolle wasnt an upgrade over GW. I think Dansby is worth the money. He made 12 less tackles than our 2 ILB combine last year ; )
Plus made impact plays, which our ILB didnt all year long
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(23 years and counting)
that might could work.
not really sure if he has improved. he seemed to be mentally slow at picking up the pro schemes.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 9, 2010 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
The kids been moved enough to no avail.
Driver of the Keep The Ginnja Bandwagon
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
Yeah I agree with Joel
Jason Allen has had several chances and hasn’t done anything with any of them. Don’t really like that option.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
That would probably be the best option.
That allows Will Allen/Smith/Davis to take over Nate Jones spot depending on who’s struggling. He’s got the speed and tackling ability to play the position, but as Lefty said, we’ll see how much he has improved in reading the offense.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
miami could
draft earl thomas in the first. try to get either tate or benn or LaFell in the 2nd. find a NT in free agency that can at least split time with paul solai. sign derrick mason to a short term deal. and a OLB or 2 in the 3rd, 4th, etc. and hope that all our young player continue to grow. and convert ted ginn to waterboy
maybe trade down and get earl thomas
Head Dude of the draft Jimmy Graham bandwagon, Riding shotgun on Nicky's Spiller Skybus, Co-Vice President of the official Matty I fan club. No more stupid mock drafts please!
by jojo phin fan on Mar 9, 2010 1:18 AM EST via mobile reply actions
this is how it should happen, or what i want to happen
spend as much as they need on darren sharper, go out and draft dez bryant, then go and get terrence cody to fill that NT position
Not going to happen
But nothing wrong with dreaming
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
why?
why wont it happen? maybe the darren sharper thing is a bit out there, but getting dez and terrence cody is legitimate. cody is a second rounder as it is.
I am not saying its not a possibility
But Tuna won’t take a Primadonna like Bryant when our more pressing needs are on the defensive side of the ball. We have way too many needs at OLB, NT, DE, FS and considering that were were 30th in the league in scoring defense last year (only the Rams and Lions were worse) you know Parcells is going to address the defense with probably the first 2-3 rounds.
Mark my words, he won’t take Bryant (in the 1st round anyways)
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 7:24 AM EST up reply actions
especially when we could just sign T.O.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yes indeed
Though I really don’t know how I would feel about having TO. I hate players like him but I also realize he has talent that can help the Dolphins.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
SIGN ADEWALE OGUNGLEYE!!!
as a stop-gap OLB pass rusher. Sign Sharper. Then we can draft a NT and WR.
-LCFF
Nice thought Lefty,
But I think Ogunleye will be just as much of a liability in coverage as Roth was. Not to mention he’s 32, and we just got rid of a 30+ OLB, pass rush specialist. Even as a stop gap, we’re better off with Wake and Anderson. Besides, Ogunleye is better suited as a 4-3 DE.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
he has always played 4-3 DE
but he has the right size and athleticism to play 3-4 OLB. We are going to bring someone in/back, whether it is JT or a draft pick. This crew won’t go to camp without more depth at the position.
Wally is probably pretty cheap right now, and he is younger than JT.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 9, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
I think he's a bit too heavy to be a pass rushing OLB.
He could transition to SLB like Roth did, but that’s really a waste of his talent. I also don’t think he’ll come as cheap as you might think, or at least not cheap enough for this FO. While he may be younger than JT, he’s not as versatile. They will go to camp with much more depth at OLB, but I think those players will come from the draft.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
dunno, but i'll bet he doesn't get a huge contract
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
That's why I said not cheap enough for this FO.
He’s not going to get top tier FA money, but I think he’ll get mid level money ($4 mil per year at least). And that’s too much to pay someone on the downside of their careers and out of position. But as a 4-3 DE, he’d be well worth the money.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
not so sure about that.
so far, he hasn’t garnered a lot of interest.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
No!
Enough with the free agency jazz – I just want to see a safety drafted in the 3rd or 4th who can comw in a compete. The whole roster should be filled out via the draft.
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
2010 dolphin draft
- 1 option
1st rd- dez bryant
2nd rd- terrence cody
3rd rd- myron rolle
4th rd- olb
5th rd- te
6th rd- center
- option
trade 2011 1st rd pick for brandon marshall
1st rd- eric berry
2nd rd- terrence cody
3rd rd- olb
4th rd- te
5th rd- center
6th rd- de
Give your opinions, which is better?
While I like the thought ....
I don’t think they will trade Brandon Marshall for a 1st round pick next year while we are sitting on a 1st round pick this year.
by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 9, 2010 3:04 AM EST up reply actions
Especially not when they can probably get a one this year from someone else.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.
Especially
when that first round pick in 2011 will be the 32nd overall pick!!!!!!!!!!
Self proclaimed driver of the Brian Hartline Bandwagon
Opinion =
Neither……too many holes in the defense to take a WR with the 1st, especially one that played in a weak ass defensive conference like the big 12.
Option 2 wouldn’t be bad but you know Denver will want the 1st round pick to be for this year….not next year. So the odds of that happening are slim….though I do like the idea of taking Berry but really doubt he will be available at 12.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
No to Dez no to Marshall
And the Broncos want a 2010 1st, if they won’t take the Seahawks second 1st what makes you think they’ll take a 2011, which may become a 2012?
1st Earl Thomas
2nd OLB
3rd DT
4th TE
5th Lagerrette Blount
6th BPA
7th BPA
If the Fins land a FS in FA which I hope
1st OLB
2nd WR
3rd DT
4th TE/ Blount/ Myronne Rolle
5th TE/ Blount/ Myronne Rolle
6th TE/ Blount/ Myronne Rolle
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
Me too!
But thats the great things about these forums….we all have our own opinions and the all are worth the exact same………nothing! LOL…besides to ourselves anyways
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
WE WERE USED
Clark used us to get a deal done with Pitt!!!! Fuck that sorry ass bitch!!!
Sorry just venting. We need a free safety
"It is obvious the Patriots souls are on lease - any day now Satan will rise up to New England - kick Tom Brady, Kevin Garnett, and David Ortiz in their luck filled testicles - and turn that area into his personal vacation home here on earth.-Rzayo 24, week one.
"Everybody in that room should be embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed, they got the wrong job or they’re stealing money from baseball."-Ozzie Guillen 8/28/09
I think they released Wilson hoping he'd generate interest from the Giants
They released him while Rolle was visiting the Giants. I got the feeling that they were trying to block the Giants signing Rolle but giving them a cheaper alternative. They obviously didn’t go for it.
Go get Suh if at all possible.
by special agent wildcat on Mar 9, 2010 7:43 AM EST reply actions
Interesting thought
I would have gone with the theory that he just stunk last year and we ditched him.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
WHATS NEXT
more FA visits
- R. Pool, CLE, FS
if the concussion is an issue make an offer for
- Atogwe, STL; FS
besides Bethea, he would be my wish candidat.
- Williams, SD, NT
i hope they bring Jamal Williams in for a visit, 2 years ago i would have listed him
a head of Wilfork as one of the Top 3 NT – and i still think he can be a Top 5 NT
the good thing he had the whole season to heal and get healthy
DRAFT
!!! CAN WE PLEASE STOP TALKING McCLAIN and DEZ BRYANT !!!!
- McClain, is to slow, stiff and too Ayodeli-ish, he is an arm tackler
- Bryant, didnt play all last year, didnt show up at the combine drills and is not going to
run the 40 at the pro day ??? thats not the character and work ethic the Trifeca is gonna spend a 12th pick – i also doubt that he is much better than the other WRs
- Demaryus Thomas will be available in round 3 and is pretty much the same player
1) NT Williams – if they liked him during the senior bowl and think he will be a force
if not – its going to be OLB
2) OLB
3) NT i hope Joseph falls into the 3rd
4) TE Jimmy Graham
other picks (6,6,6,7,7)
will be spent on OLB, ILB, FS, OG, CB, KR probably a CB and RB
the main reason why we are NOT going to spend a first day draft pick on WR is
- we have a very young WR corp with Hartline, Turner, Bess, Ginn
- one of the above mentioned is expected to take a huge step
- if Turner wont get it together he will be gone next season
MAIN REASON:
- NEXT YEARS WR DRAFT CLASS SEEMS TO BE VERY STRONG AND MUCH MORE
THE PHYSICAL TYPE OF WR THE TRIFECA WANTS
- Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame -
- A.J. Green, WR, Georgia
- Julio Jones, WR, Alabama – 6’4 212
- Jonathan Baldwin, WR, Pittsburgh -
Julio Jones, WR, Alabama So, 6-4, 211
Terrance Toliver, WR, LSU Jr, 6-4, 195
A.J. Green, WR, Georgia So, 6-4, 207
Mark Dell, WR, Michigan State Jr, 6-2, 188
etc etc etc
i also doubt that we are going to trade Thigpen, bringing back Pennington to me is obiously to provide the 3 young QBs with a mentor. Thigpen could have more value next year. And we wont trade him for a 5th rounder. anything worst than a 3rd rounder wont work
If I were GM
I would use FA to pick up at least two if not all of the following needs. WR, DT, and FS. I would look at A. Bryant, or even T.O for WR… Definitely need to bring in Jamal Williams for DT and take a look at O.J. Atogwe or Gibril, which I am totally in favor of!
Even though the Fins landed Dansby, I think the Fins have really did more damage then good in FA so far. Releasing Wilson creates a big need on the defense and makes the Fins rely heavily on the draft for starters, and there is not going to be 3-4 Starters there.
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
I think they thought they could upgrade
And most likely still think they can. The whole Jeff Ireland thing about him talking about how “it wasn’t his fault” still makes me scratch his head,
They must have thought Rolle would take what they were offering. Now they have to move fast
"It is obvious the Patriots souls are on lease - any day now Satan will rise up to New England - kick Tom Brady, Kevin Garnett, and David Ortiz in their luck filled testicles - and turn that area into his personal vacation home here on earth.-Rzayo 24, week one.
"Everybody in that room should be embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed, they got the wrong job or they’re stealing money from baseball."-Ozzie Guillen 8/28/09
it was the right move
keep in mind that capwise the release of Porter, Ayodele and Wilson was the right thing to do
the only move i still regret
MATT ROTH
i always thoughed he was a warrior, nasty attitude and a force vs the run
Me too
Fins still need to sign JT back, unless they feel Cam Wake and a rookie can get the job done
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
I agree about Roth
I also agree about JT, he is a good guy to have around, and he can still perform despite his age
"It is obvious the Patriots souls are on lease - any day now Satan will rise up to New England - kick Tom Brady, Kevin Garnett, and David Ortiz in their luck filled testicles - and turn that area into his personal vacation home here on earth.-Rzayo 24, week one.
"Everybody in that room should be embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed, they got the wrong job or they’re stealing money from baseball."-Ozzie Guillen 8/28/09
Hell yes it was the right move
When I read that article, my heart sank and I said “really, you’re going to keep this goofball.”
"It is obvious the Patriots souls are on lease - any day now Satan will rise up to New England - kick Tom Brady, Kevin Garnett, and David Ortiz in their luck filled testicles - and turn that area into his personal vacation home here on earth.-Rzayo 24, week one.
"Everybody in that room should be embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed, they got the wrong job or they’re stealing money from baseball."-Ozzie Guillen 8/28/09
Ridiculous..
In what way was cutting The Gerbil a bad move. He was absolutely worthless this past year. We were also able to get rid of his bloated contract (without penalty) that we gave him last year. Cutting the Gerbil was a wise and quite necessary. It also sends a message to players on the team that if you dont perform up to their contract that they will be gone (Im looking at you Crowder)
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Mar 9, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
I guess it is time to argue football X's and O's
Have you ever took a deep look into why you and many other fans quickly jump to the conclusion that he was “awful” last season. What many common fans tend to do is find a scape goat, and jump on the band wagon and have little to no reason for doing so. They spit out facts that they have heard on here, or repeat from announcers or that they make up on their own because they really can’t explain.
However, to me Wilson was far better than “Awful” and I was convinced was set to be better in 2010 than 2009. Looking at his performances through his career and last year, through a coachings eye and mindset there is a lot more to it then just what people assume on here.
So I ask you why was cutting “Gerbil” a good move, besides his contract numbers?
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
I understand he was poor at some times
I am not excusing his struggles in tackling Dallas Clark, or some times a miss tackle resulting in a big play, or a temp lapse in coverage. What I am saying is that every player has these, every player guesses wrong or reads the play incorrectly putting him out of position, but as a FS there is a lot of attention on him and there was a lot more blamed on him then should have been.
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
And with the gerbil
It happened more than normal this year. Quite frankly I’m embarrased that you see a Phin get owned on the Reggie Bush commercial.
"It is obvious the Patriots souls are on lease - any day now Satan will rise up to New England - kick Tom Brady, Kevin Garnett, and David Ortiz in their luck filled testicles - and turn that area into his personal vacation home here on earth.-Rzayo 24, week one.
"Everybody in that room should be embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed, they got the wrong job or they’re stealing money from baseball."-Ozzie Guillen 8/28/09
There is no Cap
I see where you’re coming from, and by releasing Wilson it clears the space, and they can resign him, which is what I hope they do… cause they’re not in good shape.
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
No fork either
"It is obvious the Patriots souls are on lease - any day now Satan will rise up to New England - kick Tom Brady, Kevin Garnett, and David Ortiz in their luck filled testicles - and turn that area into his personal vacation home here on earth.-Rzayo 24, week one.
"Everybody in that room should be embarrassed. If they’re not embarrassed, they got the wrong job or they’re stealing money from baseball."-Ozzie Guillen 8/28/09
what i think we should do is
we move will allen to nickel corner and we draft thomas. if we got either thomas or berry and one decent pass rusher in the draft our secondary would be set.
then at NT we get that guy from the chargers and resign fergie.
even though some people are turning on ferg i think it would be good to sign him because he would only be playing half a season and he would come in FRESH… he would play his first game week 9 and would even have extra time to heal up from his injury… he would be going strong right as the playoffs would be rolling around.
Personally, I'm glad we didn't sign Clark.
Yeah, he is a good, hard hitting safety that makes lots of tackles. That’s great, if we were looking for a strong safety, but we are looking for a free safety. To me, a free safety needs to have better coverage skills to be able to help out the corners, while the strong safety is the one who should hit hard and make tackles.
I mean, in 8 seasons Clark has amassed a total of 24 passes def, 8 interceptions, and 3 forced fumbles total in his career. That doesn’t sound like free safety type of numbers to me, it sounds like someone whos skills are more strong safety trying to play free safety. The Steelers can get away with that because of the outstanding play and ability of Troy Polomalu, and yes I know Polomalu was injured most of this past year. But overall, those stats are the main ones that I look at for a free safety, and his stats more resemble that of a strong safety. And with him being a hard hitting, good tackling safety, is just too close to what Gerbil was for me.
If you’ve read my comments over the last few days, you know that I am firmly in the ‘Sign OJ Atogwe!!’ camp, so I won’t rehash all my arguments on why I think we should grab him. Like someone else said, it wouldn’t hurt anything to make a play for him, it would only cost us some time. I mentioned this above too, but I just thought about it and perhaps part of this Atogwe thing has to do with them getting a new owner. The current owners have never really been too into owning a football team, and have been trying to sell the Rams since they inherited it when their mom died. The new owner, who I believe is currently waiting on the league and other owners to meet and approve him as an owner before the deal becomes final, has said that he would not be shy about opening up the checkbook to improve the team. I think the Rams are hoping to stall on the Atogwe thing long enough for the new owner to get approved and then have more flexibility with their money.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
i agree
i wouldnt have been mad if we signed clark but i agree that i think he is to much like gibril for our tastes.
Atogwe - Major Wright
Atogwe is a good coverage safety – and we should make a run at him for a reasonable price. But i think the RAMS will match our offer anyway and just USE US to set a price.
Agree with another POSTER that MAJOR WRIGHT is a good idea in the draft.
Most think that ERIC BERRY will be gone by the TOP 1-7 picks…which makes me happy !!! Sure he would be a big upgrade – but at WHAT PRICE ? Drafting a Safety that high is very bad for your CAP (when it comes back next year) IF OUR FRONT OFFICE is so great – they should be able to find a solid starter at safety in the 3rd round on down…Clemons/Culver could man the position this year if we can’t find a better starter.
We need to plan for the CAP in 2011 and make sure that we can keep our young talent – SAFETY IS A LOW PRIORITY POSITION compared to QB (better save your money TUNA- Chad will be worth a LOT more very soon) contract extension anyone ??? …also compared to rush OLB (still need one for the future) and the NT position which we will have to fill this year as well….. OH yea…. what about a true #1 WR ? that will require some CAP SPACE and salary now and in the future…..AGAIN SAFETY comes in way low compared to our larger needs….therefore we MUST find one cheap or draft a starter in the lower rounds…
40 Year FIN FAN
DRAFT a #1 WR now.........
The Phins should play their best DB's: Allen, Bell, Davis, and Smith
They have 4 good players and 4 positions to fill, what’s the problem? Does it matter what we call them, whether they are labeled CB or FS or SS? I don’t think it does. DB’s need to cover and tackle, that’s what these 4 can do. Cover and Tackle. Put your best players on the field and let the positions work themselves out.
One issue Matty. Moving a projected CB to FS is not a “radical” idea. It has been done successfully in the past. Hell, the guy everyone wanted to sign, the guy who just signed the richest FS contract in history, Antrell Rolle is a CB, who converted to FS in the prime of his career. So moving a CB (Smith, Allen, or Davis) isn’t radical at all.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Will Allen doesnt have the size or physicality to play FS
he would be a tremendous nickel corner for us as long as he accepts this role
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Mar 9, 2010 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Going into the '10 season, if healthy, Will Allen is the Phins best CB.
Allen and Smith were the two best CB’s on the Phins to begin last year. If healthy, they are probably the two best CB’s in ’10. Why would they want to play their best CB at nickel? Yet the worst CB in the AFC East last year, Davis, could pull a Rolle and become an excellent FS. He has the size, physicality, and ball hawking skills to play the position well.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Where are you getting the worst CB in the AFC east?
What is your criteria? Davis struggled at times, as all rookies do….especially against the caliber WRs he was matching up on, but he was no where near the worst CB in the AFC east. Those distinctions belonged to Jonathan Wilhite (New England, 573 snaps played) Reggie Corner (Buffalo, 722 snaps played)….and depending on how you are measuring the CB Drayton Florence (Buffalo, 929 snaps) was worse.
Davis main fault was giving up too many big plays and if you are honest about those, most of them were plays where he got burned by top end WRs with 5+ years and several probowls under their belts.
Oh and if you are using TDs given up as your statistical measure, Charles Woodsen (5)only gave up one less than Vontae (6).
There is no way that Will Allen is more physical than Vontae Davis. If you are looking to the future, you have to play Davis and Smith as your starters unless they suffer a serious setback in their development. And that is nothing against Will Allen (whom I think is a very solid CB, but for the future of the team should accept his role as nickle back)
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
I got it from Tim Graham's AFC East Blog on ESPN.COM
Here is the line from the article: http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/8882/jets-cbs-dont-feel-the-burn
Sean Smith was the Miami Dolphins’ best in terms of burn percentage. He ranked 16th, allowing 35 receptions on 73 targets for a 47.9 percentage.
His rookie partner, Vontae Davis, was 61st — worst among all AFC East cornerbacks who faced at least 50 passes. He gave up 46 catches on 76 tries. That’s a 60.5 percent success rate for the offense.
This is from Matty’s post highlighting the Graham blog: http://www.thephinsider.com/2010/1/11/1244099/weekend-roundup-talking
Davis is also credited for surrendering six touchdowns while Smith gave up only four. And it’s also very interesting to note that Davis saw more pass attempts thrown his way than Smith did despite playing about 200 fewer snaps. And it’s not like Smith was never around the ball. He led the team with 12 pass deflections.
By the way, where did you find the “snaps played” stat?
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
They were Rookies, and as you shoud know Stats don't mean that much
Davis also had 4 picks, to Smiths 0. There could have also been other circumstances that played along with that. Granted it is a valid argument but Davis and Smith have much more upside then Allen and Smith. They are rookies and will learn, go back to Surtain and Madisons early years I am sure it doesn’t look great. Hell go to Peyton Manning’s rookie year numbers…
Allen is coming off knee surgery who’s to say where he is in terms of productions. Plus another stat that is looked at is targets and catches for the CB’s opponent, if Davis lets up 100 catches it looks bad, but if they are all underneath and not for many yardage… you can’t tell. Smith and Davis should and will start
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
Go to Profootballfocus.com
Read how they break down and grade ever single snap and then go and look at their rankings. You will be surprised. Also when you are going to quote someone, make sure that you quote it correctly.
You stated in your original post that he was the worst CB in the AFC East. In all actuallity the quote was that his completion percentage was “Among the worst” in the AFC East. Completion percentage isn’t the only “measurement” to grade a CB. And as I stated if giving up TDs is your comparison the Charles Woodson sucks because he only gave up one less than Vontae. You have to look at more than just one catagory or one thing when grading a player.
The CB from the Raiders, Asomugha, was only thrown at 28 times in more than 900 snaps. Does it mean that he was worse because he allowed a higher completion percentage than another CB that he was worse? Profootballfocus.com takes into consideration conditions like was the pass in “garbage” time or was it on a third and 12 at midfield and the completion was a 4 yard pass that was stopped short of the 1st down. Stats in themselves don’t paint a full pictures.
I have surfed through hundreds of websites looking at different catagories and manners in which they grade and I can say without a doubt that profootballfocus.com is the best I have seen anywhere. And before anyone asks, no I don’t have any affiliation with them.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for the website.
And I agree with you that “stats themselves don’t paint a full picture”. But the evaluation above also coincides with what I saw in person at the NO and NE games in Miami. Drew Brees and Tom Brady targeted Davis regardless of who he was covering. It was so obvious in the NE game that from the stands, prior to the snap, I could tell where the pass was going, or more accurately, where it wasn’t going to be thrown. And that was to Smith. Why did Davis see more passes thrown his way, in less snaps, than Smith? Could it have something to do with Smith being a better player? I think it does and I think opposing QB’s know that too.
I will go to Profootballfocus.com and see if there is anything there that changes my mind. But I know what I saw and I saw Davis getting picked on by 2 of the best QB’s in the game while the other rookie CB was basically ignored.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Come on...think about what you just said
Tom Brady and Drew Brees. They make Pro Bowlers look like rookies.
In reference to why did Davis see more passes thrown his way? I believe, and I think if you really get into the weeds (which I think you can at the website) you can see that Davis was matched up on the Number 1 WR week in and week out. I know in the first game against New England, Vontae was challenging and giving Randy Moss some serious competition. He played extremely well, despite giving up a TD.
Smith will always look better matched up against the number 2 vs Davis matching up with the Number 1. There are very few CBs that hold the WRs of NE and NO in check the whole game.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Part of any passing game plan is to get your top WR against the weakest CB
That is just smart game planning. A couple of things to that point. When Allen got hurt (in the NO game, as an aside, the majority of the points that NO scored came after Allen’s injury), Davis came in. Smith and Davis played their sides of the field, they didn’t flop. So the offense knew which side of the field Davis was playing and put their best WR on that side. That’s one reason why it seemed Davis covered the opposing teams best WR, because the offense dictated the match-up.
But later in the year, the Phins started flopping the CB’s and matching up to the WR’s. Why, because Davis was getting killed by the other teams best WR. That is why Smith was on Andre Johnson against the Texans for the majority of the game and basically shut him down (his TD was caught against Jones).
Here is what I saw at the NE game. When Smith was covering Moss, Brady threw the ball somewhere else. When Davis was covering Moss, Brady threw at him. One was for a long TD and one was the pick in the endzone. Same with Welker. Welker, if memory serves, didn’t catch a single pass when Smith was in coverage. Yet Welker had 10 catches for 167 yds. Now some of those catches came with JT and JP in coverage (PP was an idiot). But Davis was in coverage on some of them.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Most of the points scored also came after we stopped pressuring Brees
We Blitzed 9 times in the 1st half of that game, and only once in the second half.
But seriously, you can’t judge a rookie CB based on a matchup with NE or NO and Tom Brady or Drew Brees. It just isn’t an accurate grade.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Why don't you have a job on an NFL team?
You know where the ball is going before it is even snapped. I think you are mixing up what really happened to what you want to happen.
First off Smith was matched up the most on #1 WR, and second it is very rare that good QB’s designate where they are going to throw the ball before the snap. If Davis was covering Welker, and he got open he would throw it there. There may be offensive plays designed to get one WR open and he may be the primary, but if he is covered the QB will not throw it to him.
I highly doubt that Davis let up the most yards, or let Welker gain all his yards when Davis was covering him and let Moss gain all his yards when Davis was covering him.
Davis had a large amount of great plays on the balls and great coverage. He did have some lapses but he was Rookie, he will get it. Smith and Davis are the best options for the Fins
Founder of the unofficial Draft Dexter McCluster band wagon!
The Patriots Suck
Why do QB's get rid of the ball so quickly in 3 and 5 step drops?
Because they know where they are going to throw the football prior to the snap based on coverage and match-ups. There is a pre-snap coverage read and a post-snap coverage read. While a QB drops back he progresses from one WR in the route to another based on those reads. If the primary WR (he becomes primary based on formation, route, and coverage) is open he gets the ball. If not, the QB progresses on his reads to the secondary receivers.
That is how it works. A quick passing game is predicated on identifing the coverage, running the correct route against that coverage, and assigning the primary WR. If you know what to look for, it isn’t that hard to identify. And I spent a lot of years, watching a lot of game film (I was a college offensive coach in a previous life), studying route combinations against coverages that I can identify pre-snap reads. As long as the QB and WR are on the same page (option routes based on coverage and alignment), it is pretty easy.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Agree
And I personally feel the future is the brightest at CB since the days of Madison and Surtain
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
i never said it was radical
But two things. One – moving either of the two young corners is STUPID. Period. Its flat out dumb. And it’s not going to happen.
As far as Will Allen goes, it’s not a terrible idea. But like I said, I just wonder if he’ll have enough time to learn the position while finishing his rehab.
You did use "radical idea" in the post
Then, of course, is the radical idea of trying to convert cornerback Will Allen to safety.
I might agree when say that moving either of the two young corners is “STUPID” right now. But how long did it take the Cardinals to figure out that Rolle wasn’t a very good CB? After his 2nd year? Who is statiscally the worst CB on the Phins right now?
What I am saying is that doesn’t it make sense to have your best players on the field the majority of the game? And aren’t the best Phins DB’s right now Allen, Bell, Davis, and Smith? Get them on the field together and figure out the position.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Actually
You want to know what the sad part about this is? I had a million photos to choose from of Gibril Wilson missing tackles or allowing completions.
I’d be shocked if you found one where he wasnt wiffing on a tackle or getting beat.
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
DT is the Priority
I think DT should be our priority right now. The reason is that with Dansby at ILB, he will get worn down if we don’t have a good DT to stop some runs at the line and he has to do it all game. Secondly, when he gets worn down, then the safety’s flaws are magnified. So if we land a good DT then we can live with an above average safety and not a stud. I do agree that we need to address the WR position, but Bryant and Marshall are not options in my opinion.
GERBIL
Cutting Wilson was the right thing to do… he failed last year – and we should dump anyone not performing to the level expected THIS YEAR where there are no CAP restrictions…. We should also look to TRADE PHILLIP MERLING maybe for another 2nd round pick. He still has value I think…and would actually take a high 3rd if offered……We are deep at DL – and weak at OLB/NT/S/WR an extra pick would really help fix this team.
Thoughts on trading MERLING ?
40 Year FIN FAN
DRAFT a #1 WR now.........
I dont like this
The Tri should not dilute an area of strength. We are 2 deep at both end positions. No reason to change things
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Mar 9, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Jets Troll Alert... at Dansby Speaks front page...
… here…
http://www.thephinsider.com/2010/3/6/1360252/dansby-speaks-with-media-talks#comments
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
you want will allen as safety but he his a starting caliber corner. what about jason allen he is a first round draft pick who has never become a real starter at the corner back position . maybe he has enough speed and coverage ability to be a free safety? if he can prove to be able to tackle enough to stop the run. what do you think?
I think Jason Allen was experimented at Safety...
… and couldn’t make the grade there either…
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
I believe that you are right
He didn’t do well
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I don't like the idea of moving Will Allen to FS
I think he should stay at CB (although as the backup/nickle) I would like to see him used on Dallas Clark and some of the other matches that can give us trouble. You are only one injury away from trouble in the secondary and I think most good teams have three solid CBs for just that reason….especially when playing the strong offensive teams like the Saints, Colts, Pats, etc.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the decision to cut Wilson was the right one...
but done at a questionable time. Generally speaking, you get the solution on board, then rid yourself of the problem. The dolphins it seems, have opted to ditch the problem but no solution is in hand.
Perhaps the FO really does want to give the job to Culver or Clemons. Then again, if that were true, why the flirtations with Clark? That leads me tot hink they feel the answer at the safety position, isn’t on this roster as of right now.
It makes Thomas a very real possibility at 12, though you also have to think of a NT as well. Right now, those two positions have very glaring holes. In effect, if the season started tomorrow, you’d have Culver (probably) as your starting Safety opposite Bell, and Paul Soliai as your starter at NT. In my mind, that makes this D, even with the Dansby signing, more of a concern than it was in 2009 – and it isn’t as if we were dominating last year either.
They have something in mind...
… is why they dumped Wilson already. It also shows in the way Clark was handled. Unless there’s some secret, I believe it will be through the draft.
A risky proposition for sure, cause the only sure thing is Berry there. There’s five weeks before then, so something could materialize in between. But I doubt it. So both spots you mention will be fixed thru the draft.
The D from last year seems to me to be more of the product of the coordinator than skill. And you have to account for the injuries too. I wouldn’t too hard on D, besides, it’s all brand new this coming season….
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64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Was Wilson owed a roster bonus or something that would have caused the timing of his release?
On another point, FS is a glaring hole, not NT. They will be able to find a guy who can play that position. Maybe not at a top level, but a guy just the same. The Jets, GB, and Denver all did just fine with just a guy at that position last year.
FS is a whole different thing. Besides a dominant pass rusher, I would make the arguement that FS is the next most important position on the defense. Defending the pass in the NFL has taken on a higher priority than defending the run IMO. And since there are only a handful of true shut down CB’s in the league (you can count them on one hand), FS becomes that much more important.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Good points...
… and it’s why I’m thinking something special could happen at the draft….
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64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Well CT...
they need someone to man the NT spot that’s at least as good as Ferg & we already know Soliai isn’t that guy. So definitely one can find a gem out there but it isn’t necessarily easy as the proliferation of 3-4 D’s have put a premium on that position.
As far as the roster bonus & wilson’s release – I wasn’t aware of any particular incentive or payout scheduled soon for him. Perhaps Matty or others have more insight.
the safety spot doesn’t look like it will be addressed via FA – I’m not quite buyin Atogwe as a dolphin. So that leaves the draft. Berry would be superb, but Thomas would be a nice consolation as well.
With the way I see some teams' needs...
… and a few “gifted” players that are top ten worthy… I do not see Eric Berry nor C.J. Spiller being avaiable to the Dolphins at #12.
OLB is the high value position and see that as more plausible for the team in round one. With safety being next, I see Morgan Burnett an excellent choice in round two. NT is the next value and would be considered in round three.
Agreed that there is no play for Atogwe….
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Booooooooooo!!!
Agreed that there is no play for Atogwe
And here I thought we were friends Alpha, and you turn your back on me like this. I see how you are.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
... didn't you call me ugly one time... LOL!!!!
Don’t get your alien all worked up… lol
You know what I mean. It’s just that, if the team were serious, you’d see it as easy as I would, on making a play for Atogwe. Obviously, they thought even Clark was a better value than Atogwe.
Still friends? (hands in pants pockets, head down and shuffles dirt with shoe)
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64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Yeah, we're still friends big guy.
But I wonder if they were just trying to get the unrestricted guy first because his original team wouldn’t have a week to decide if they wanted to match it or not. In Atogwe’s case, the Rams would have 7 days to decide if they wanted to match our offer or not, and the Dolphins would kind of be in limbo not knowing if they needed to be looking for someone else or not. With Clark if they got him to sign, he was ours and the Steelers couldn’t do anything about it. The Steelers just made him an offer he wanted before we did.
As for how obviously we’d see it, maybe the FO has been inquiring to Atogwe’s agent quietly, getting information and numbers together waiting to see how the Rolle and Clark situations played out.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
Mays or Thomas
We need to draft one of the other top talents at saftey, either Mays or Thomas. Second round we could get Cody or Jerry Hughes for OLB. Third pick we could get Washington the other OLB from TCU. Either way, I think that first pick needs to go to saftey. There is no way we can look to a WR too many first round WR’s fail. Go to a solid position and get the right guy.
Mays top talent?
That’s debatable. He is a talent with his physical skills but hasn’t shown me skills in actual game situation. Has way too many mental lapses. I think Thomas is a much better bet at FS in terms of ready to play right now. That doesn’t mean that Mays might not be great in about 3 or 4 years but I don’t think you will get much from him other than special teams in the first 2 years.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Wilson???
Two words; Hell no!
I would love to draft Berry or Thomas but I don’t see this FO drafting a FS in the First round.
I wouldn’t mind getting Atogwe if he doesn’t cost us much. And doesn’t have “issues”.
I’m totally open in starting Culver/Clemons. Yes, FS is a huge responsibility due to the player who occupies it is in charge of directing the secondary. To me it make sense to just throw Clemons into the fire and see if he can sink our swim. As far as I know there’s only one way to learn and that is by doing.
Isnt Atogwe Just as good as Rolle, If not better?
Why not just offer the same deal we offered Rolle?
Ted Ginn Jr- Next Great Return Threat- Driver of the New TGJ Return Threat Bandwagon- 299 yards and 2TDs vs Jets 11/1/09
Atogwe is much better at FS than Rolle.
I would agree that if we were willing to offer big money to Rolle, I don’t know why we wouldn’t offer that same amount to someone who is much better than him IMO.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
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Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
Here are the lines for Rolle and Atogwe
Rolle …..1041 snaps, thrown at 34 times, allowed 20 completions (58.8%), 14.2 average yard per catch against him, allowed 2 TDs, 4 INTs, 2 pass defensed/deflected, and a 65.9 QB rating when thrown against.
Atogwe….761 snaps, thrown at 31 times, allowed 21 completions (67.7%), 9.8 average yard per catch against him, allowed 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 2 pass defensed/deflected, and a 59.2 QB rating against
Overall, factoring in the ability to rush the passer on blitzes, play run support, coverage ability, and factoring in penalties, Atogwe was ranked as the #32 Safety in the game (with better scores in all the just mentioned catagories than Rolle) out of 87 while Rolle was ranked #67 out of 87. So comparing the 2, Atogwe was head and shoulders above Rolle (most significantly in coverage rankings. Oh and Rolle had the 4th most missed tackles of all safeties with 14, while Atogwe only had 3.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Wow.... thanks for the stats....
Sure looks different….
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
No problem brother
Glad I could help.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Alpha 6 is on too somthing...
The brass upstairs def has somthing in mind. I live in the Bay Area where Nolan drowned as head coach of the Niners trying to play the same style of defense he did in Baltimore; which was MAN UP ON THE CORNERS!. Maybe thats the direction the Fins are heading in w/ their 2 young studs which decreases the need for a superstar FS (or SS for that matter). I say get Sharper for a modest price to stop gap and teach the two young safties on roster how it’s done.
Poison Pill for Atogwe
We can sign Atogwe to whatever contract we want and the Fins can put a “posion pill” in there to make sure the Rams can’t sign him. For anyone unaware of what that is, the Vikings and Seahawks did this to eachother a couple of years ago and basically exchanged Steve Hutchinson and Nate Burleson (Minny struck first, then Seattle responded. Yeah… Minnesota won that one!!!). Essentially what they did is sign each player to a contract that becomes FULLY GUARANTEED if the player played 5+ games in their current city/state (ie – for their current team). Essentially this made the contract unmatchable, as no team would ever guarantee a 5+ yr, $50+ million contract. Both of those teams were reprimanded for not playing nice, but there is no official rule against it. The union has suggested if no one uses this as an option they will claim collusion, in that the owners are agreeing to not use a viable option to encourage player movement (and thus player paydays!). Since the Rams did not put a tender requiring draft pick compensation, they are basically asking for it!
Matty – feel free to put this idea out there more. Too many people don’t know about this and I’ve been hoping that the Fins use this to get Atogwe since he was given the lowest tender. I wasn’t sold on Clark or Rolle either.
Actually this has been talked about plenty on here.
This will not happed because of the instance that you referred to. Now the owners have a gentleman’s agreement not to offer anymore contracts with a poison pill in order to keep things from getting ugly. None of them will admit this publicly so as to not be accused of collusion by the union. This is also why I think you have not seen this happen again for the last couple of years.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.
Collusion
If there was case the Players Union could make for collusion this would be it. O.J. Atogwe is a Pro Bowl FS. He is better than A. Rolle and R. Clark. Why would the Rams not tender their Franchise FS at a 1st and a 3rd. Most every other team has placed resonable tenders on their RFA. No the Raiders don’t count. I agree with you TEX most of the time, but, not on this one. The Rams are using the system to take advantage of their FRANCHISE player. Collusion if proven can bring the whole league down. So we’ve tried the other two options in FA Clark and Rolle. It’s time to make an offer to the last FA restricted or not that wont cost us picks.
Don't think you will see the poison pill used much
It’s rumored to be shunned by virtually all owners and there is alot of speculation that there is a “gentleman’s agreement” not to use it.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what I just said!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.
Can I get some hugs too...?
LOL!
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Only one hug brother
Any more than that and people would start talking!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
What about Damione Lewis?
Isn’t he available? That would enable us to draft a playmaker. We really need a guy like CJ Spiller. Here is what I would do.
FA-
NT-Damione Lewis(Hurricane)32yo big body with a couple of good years left
FS-Atogwe good player(pay the money)
Draft-
1st-RB/Specialist-CJ Spiller!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(game breaker)
2nd-NT-Terrance Cody(line mover)
3rd-LB or Jimmy Graham
4th-TE-Jimmy Graham(skies the limit)
6th-OL
6th-LB
6th-WR
7th-WR
7th-DL
We have a lot of young talent in the secondary and if Nolan can get these guys to play and know their assignments we will be okay. The big thing is chunk yardage and big plays to provide excitement to the team and fans. It is disheartening to the team when the offense takes 8 minutes to score and then the opposition scores quickly on a big play the next possession. Those big plays are momentum shifters which the Dolphins have not had since the Marino passing days. Bring it back. Spiller and Brown would be sick. It would be a newer version of Csonka and Morris, Unstoppable! They can both catch really well and break long runs. Brown will punish and Spiller will Flash. Bring in Ricky in the Fourth to kill the will. Add in Jimmy Graham who just needs the right tutoring and our receivers to get a little more seasoning. It’s all on Henne. He just needs to read the defenses a little quicker and go through his progressions faster. I think that this is the Dolphins break out year and cement themselves as contenders for now and the future. Let’s Go Dolphins!
saffety
Do you think I’m crazy for thinking that taylor mays might be a good fit in miami I’m from cali so I’ve seen him at the colisieum and I feel he can fill that void he’s smart and very athletic and the front office can worry bout finding other free agents that we need !
I think you're crazy
because I don’t think Mays will be very good. Unless we decide all our games with a Combine, I don’t see him being successful in the NFL.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
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Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 9, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
:)
I think he will be a shocker lil bit of a sleeper in the draft and then tear up the field when season comes around I would like to see him in a miami uniform
by rbrown phan 23 on Mar 9, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Only as a LB
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Article on CP10 and the QB situation
This is an interesting article
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/09/1519723/the-pennington-plan-has-vet-as.html
It appears that CP10 spoke with Parcells and THEY came to an agreement that CP10 would be the #3 QB this upcoming season. So for those of you looking for a QB controversy, go look for it on another team.
Guess we should also thank Kurt Warner for helping us keep CP10
James T Paulson
I think that's a great role for CP10 this year
And one he will do really well with. It gives him another year to mentor and teach Henne how to be a consumate professional. It will only have positive results.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
makes me wonder tho
what will happen to Pat White. We don’t need 4 QBs, so will they change his position?
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think alot of people are wondering that
Some think we will try to trade Thigpen…..others think we will convert White. I don’t have a clue and haven’t heard anything!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
guess they will see what Thigpen could give us back...
but to me I would convert White somehow and keep Henne, Thigpen and CP10 as our 3 QBs
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
check out the fanpost on the side
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 9, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
noticed it thanks
didnt see it at first lol
but either way you are wondering the same thing I am
What happens to Pat White?
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
if that is the case then White would be our #2
That makes no sense
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
they need to go right to the ramsthigpen & our 1st.
by wild zion beaver on Mar 9, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
and who would we draft with the 1st pick in the draft??
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
SUH!!!!!!!!!!!
The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
On the Draft Hernandez in 2nd Bandwagon.
Now lets go get OJ Atogwe.
The only thing you know about me is.. THATS ALL YOUR EVER KNOW!!
Screw the JETS!!!!!!!!
He would if we got the number 1 pick he will!
The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
On the Draft Hernandez in 2nd Bandwagon.
Now lets go get OJ Atogwe.
The only thing you know about me is.. THATS ALL YOUR EVER KNOW!!
Screw the JETS!!!!!!!!
hahahaha
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 10, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
He plays what DT?
Is that our biggest need right now?
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Do we even have DTs in the 3-4?
I am not thinking that will fit real well and I don’t think we would want to get stuck paying him the cash he would demand!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
exactly which is why I doubt we even move up from #12......
in the draft unless it is a guy we absolutely want that fills a glaring hole
I dont see a move to #1 for a Suh for the Fins, it doesnt make sense to me and we would have to give up too much to do it.
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
Also it is very likely the Rams wont draft Suh
They would draft Bradford due to their obvious need for a QB, so if you wanted Suh you would probably target Detroit and not St Louis
but either way I dont see it happening
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Oh I will guarantee that we don't move up
That is completely against the Tuna’s makeup….especially in a talented draft like this year!!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 9, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
the defense revolves around the nose in a 3/4 de.
trade back down with detroit switch or swap places in the second rd.maybe throw cam in & get next years 1rd.pick. take berry wait for the second rd. to materilize ohhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by wild zion beaver on Mar 9, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
seesm like an awful lot to do to shore up a nose tackle lol
but that is just my opinion of course
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
or you could sit on your friggen thumbs, act stupid. & go da. until your turn comes!
miss out on a lot of talent & in the future also oh i ment that in a good way!
by wild zion beaver on Mar 9, 2010 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
how do we know it would be stupid to stay with the #12 pick?
this is the draft we are talking about, and it is a deep draft
there will be someone very good at #12, but the draft is a crapshoot, for all we know Suh is a bust and Dez Bryant ends up being the next Jerry Rice
so to say that them not moving up is acting stupid is a bit premature
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 5:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think its virtually a lock that we stay with the 12th pick
You are going to get top ten talent without having to pay for it. The 12th this year is probably equal to about 5 or 6 as far as talent last year and perhaps the year before.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 7:31 AM EST up reply actions
this is a pretty true statement.
might even be a tad conservative
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
safety help
roy williams and jermaine phillips are still out there. not too great, but experience would help culver/clemons. bring in jamal williams and antonio bryant. definitely go safety, reciever on draft day 1-2 rounds!
it was posted 5 minutes ago by Schefter
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
oh sorry 7 minutes ago
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions
Schefter reported that Thomas Jones signed with KC at that time
but the announcement that Parkers’ visit to KC was officially cancelled did not occur until a few minutes ago
and either way, if you knew about it 30 minutes ago, why didnt you post it? lol
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
it doesn't matter
because I totally called this like 2 years ago… psshh
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 9, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
former Chargers' DT Jamal Williams signs with Broncos
James T Paulson
Heh heh heh
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Also deadline has passed and Vick is still an Eagle
Shefter reports that this gives Vick his 1.5 million dollar signing bonus
James T Paulson
signed Fergie
We signed jason ferguson…..
by KingPhin on Mar 9, 2010 6:38 PM EST via mobile reply actions
where do you see that?
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
I can't believe it...
I just saw it online…seriously, I don’t get it….the trifecta’s planning for the second half of the season already…man, we haven’t even hit the draft yet…lol…I hope he came cheap.
just thinking out loud here...
We are still in our 3rd year of rebuild, so for FA’s I’m glad we got Dansby but I think we’ll pick up some guys for competition and build threw the draft. I imagine best available will be our first pick. 2nd pick will be cody. And 3rd will be receiver, if first pick is not WR which is doubtful even if dez bryant is there.
As far as the guys we released I imagine one of them will be back for less. I don’t think it will be Ayodele, we may see gbril back unless they are really high on the safety from texas.
If I'm a chicken, you're a turkey....
by Heater OsE on Mar 9, 2010 7:30 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I like Cody at the 2nd pick
but where do we address the FS issue?
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
4th
with Major Wright? Or bringing in Sharper to allow Clemons more time to develop?
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 9, 2010 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
see this is why you are one of da best here lol
you have all the answers lol
sounds good
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
lol I do what I can
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 9, 2010 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
i'd say 1st pick or way later like 4th round
Seems like good recievers are to be had in 2nd and 3rd round. Our DT will be 2nd round so 3rd round receiver sounds right
If I'm a chicken, you're a turkey....
by Heater OsE on Mar 9, 2010 7:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
ok so I am hearing great things about Dez Bryant in terms
of his ability
Do you feel his abilities are enough that the trifecta might take him at 12 and set his lazy butt straight?
James T Paulson
by Jtpdolphins2009 on Mar 9, 2010 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
agreed.
i think i like D. Thomas better than Bryant anyway
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 9, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
bryant looks like another crabtree to me
Great player but issues getting him signed
If I'm a chicken, you're a turkey....
by Heater OsE on Mar 9, 2010 8:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Demaryius?
he’s gonna take a while to get on the field, and I’m not sure how good he’ll be. He doesn’t have that burst out of his cuts that gets you separation, and he’s not fast enough to just run away from people. He also has NO experience running routes.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 9, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions
BUT!
we can probably get him in a later round
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 9, 2010 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
I know
I’d rather have Turner though.. he’s a similar player, but is further ahead in his development. Thomas just scares me because I think it’s a long shot that he makes it.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 9, 2010 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
With Earl Thomas in the 1st round
Or Eric Berry, god willing and a miracle happens!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
i'm in favor
but OLB, since roth’s release has become a serious long term drag on the team… if they can trade down 4 or 5 spots… and then draft graham… i would cry. so many holes…. so few first round picks…..
maybe they can trade penne to the raiders for a first next year…. by convincing Al that there wont be a draft in a lock out year.
(what they don’t have a 1st next year…. how will i get my morbid pleasure)
btw: go raiders… Just like the browns/cowboys a couple years ago – i hope that pick belicheat stole turns into something late
The Future is now, stop the bandwagon and lets get the Henne train rollin, as we all hope that the 14th dwarf is the real prince charming.
by W NY Fins Fan on Mar 11, 2010 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
This would be a great year to trade down
From the person trading down’s perspective. The only problem is its such a deep draft that teams aren’t wanting to trade up and give up other draft picks with so much talent. I have said a few times, if there are trade downs, I see it coming in the 2nd round.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 11, 2010 7:27 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno, I really like Cam Thomas or LaFell with the second
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Driver of the "LaGarrete Blountwagon"
matty in defense of Hill
yeah – he isn’t the most gifted FS in the league, but his strength was communication and making sure that every DB understood what the play was and that they were in the right coverage… it was pretty clear last year, either due to the personal or due to inexperience that that wasnt always the case last year… so yeah a communicator like hill would likely have been more useful then a hitter like wilson… but point taken that neither is ed reed.
The Future is now, stop the bandwagon and lets get the Henne train rollin, as we all hope that the 14th dwarf is the real prince charming.
wilson was a hitter?
i didn’t get the memo
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Neither did any of the opposing ball carriers!
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 7:33 AM EST up reply actions
yeah actually he was
he did get off to a rough start but finished strong (in run defense anyways…. pass defense was still um bad ,,, not that’s not quite right ….awful)
and in the case of timelyness…. profootballfocus backs me up somewhat…
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/11422/tackle-stats-show-bell-was-ultimate-safety
and all this considering that he backed up porters side who didn’t think he needed to tackle anyone but the QB and most of the time Smith who isn’t the hitter that Davis is…
The Future is now, stop the bandwagon and lets get the Henne train rollin, as we all hope that the 14th dwarf is the real prince charming.
by W NY Fins Fan on Mar 10, 2010 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Good article
I am glad to see that other people are starting to see and use profootballfocus.com for a more legit way to grade out players.
I knew that Bell was good at tackling, but in overall ranking he wasn’t great, especially coverage (but I can live with that if we had a good FS).
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 11, 2010 7:31 AM EST up reply actions
while we are talking about FA
why isn’t anyone talking about the failure to address adding a RB to the roster…
to suggest that the fins are set at the position is a bit optimistic… Brown is coming of a major injury 2nd time in 3 seasons.
Ricky besides being Ricky says he’s finished after this season… and one could say the last 2 or 3 games (likely injured worse then reported) indicated that he may be done sooner… Cobbs returning from a serious injury… and with no other starting caliber backs on the roster before we talk about the fact that neither brown nor ricky have a contract for next year… it’s clear that they need something more certain back there then the questions they enter camp with…. and nary a word is heard about this … with some quality guys on the market…
The Future is now, stop the bandwagon and lets get the Henne train rollin, as we all hope that the 14th dwarf is the real prince charming.
because they are drafting spiller
didn’t YOU get the memo? Nicky sent it out.
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, except in this case
the wishful thinking is actually a prediction of the future. CJ Spiller will be a Dolphin.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
I can't brain today, I have the dumb.
28 "Phinsider Feud" Points
Chillin easy on the Draft CJ Spiller SpillWagon skybus. Got the window seat, the minibar, just waiting for the stewardess to bring me a pillow.
it's one of those picks that just makes sense
What’s our offense lack? Playmakers.
What’s our RB situation? Dire, after 2010.
What is Spiller’s value? Top 8 IMO.
Who would be a higher-rated player on our board available at 12? Berry maybe, if not him, nobody.
So you take the best player available, that fills a future need and adds instant explosiveness to the offense. In a deep defensive draft, you can easily afford to take an offensive guy in round 1 and still find upgrades all along the defense. Spiller is the most explosive player in the entire draft, and comes with no character concerns, no durability concerns, and very few concerns about physical ability. It’s the right pick.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 10, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
My arguement to this is that our defensive needs outweigh our offensive needs
Not only in quality, but in quantity.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
i agree, but if there is not an elite talent D guy there @ 12
that also fills one of the holes (needs!, not depth) in our Defense, then I go with CJ.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 10, 2010 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
We have holes at several positions
OLB, NT, FS
And we really don’t have holes on the O either. We have sufficient players there but need depth and improvements in certain areas, WRs and RBs (for the future) as well as depth at OL.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
Disagree, I don't think Tuna will go offense
I will agree that if he did go offense it would be Spiller over Bryant (like many Fins fans want, though personally I think Bryant is overrated and lacks passion and drive). I guess we will find out come April. I am saying Tuna will go defense.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 10, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
The only reason I think Spiller is in the runnings
is because of how deep the draft is defensively. I agree that D should be the priority, and you can already see that in FA, with the immediate signing of Dansby and the huge interest in Rolle and Clark, but I also think that the cliche “the best defense is a good offense” fits with the current NFL. Scoring early and often forces the opponent to play fast and take chances, and that can improve what would otherwise be a mediocre defense simply because they can play somewhat careful and wait for the offense to force something.
I feel like taking Spiller really adds a lot to our offense, and we can still address defense in the next 3-4 rounds (which I think we should. OLB, NT, FS in rounds 2, 3, and 4). So I definitely agree that defense should be the focus, but I also think you need to get the BPA in the first, especially when he does fit a need and is as good as CJ is.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 10, 2010 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
But think about some of the other factors Nicky
Do you think Henning is the kind to want to attack offensively? I would see us taking Spiller if we were aggressive like some of the offensive powerhouses are….but I think Henning is too conservative in his playcalling for the FO to look at drafting a player like Spiller.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 11, 2010 7:34 AM EST up reply actions
Henning is also 68 this year
I don’t think we are drafting to fit into his exact scheme, because how much longer will we be running that scheme? David Lee, the guy I truly believe will take over for Henning after this season, is aggressive and creative, and Spiller would be PERFECT for him, because Lee could line him up all over the place and CJ would still be dangerous.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 11, 2010 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
scared money dont make money
when it comes to free agency you get what you pay for. we learned that lesson already, the raiders let gibril wilson go and we got burnt picking him up.the only good player the raiders had is now on the dolphins roster.(jake grove) what a steal that was. all i have to say is this, if you want to succede in this league you need proven players. and draft raw talent and build them up. i see a very talented safety in darren sharper. pay him what he’s worth. that type of player is definately what you need to make it to the suprbowl. as a matter of fact he sealed the deal vs.the colts. not to many safetys can make pick six’s in 1 season let alone 3. So with that i say pay sharper what he’s woth and offer a contract to TO. it dont have to be huge but incentive riddled and must keep his mouth shut.
by miamirulez23518 on Mar 11, 2010 8:02 AM EST reply actions
I agree with the Sharper statement
As long as the pricetag isn’t too high. I think he is worth a one or two year deal while you either draft a future stud FS or are confident that Culver or Clemons are going to develop. However, I am not a big fan of bringing TO in. Sure he WAS a great player and maybe worth the distraction back when he was a top 5 WR in terms of production, but I don’t think he is worth that now and I think the potential harm (especially with a young QB like Henne) outweighs the potential gain.
by Vanman_FishFan13 on Mar 11, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
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