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Around SBN: Dallas Cowboys: Unknown Quantities

Reasons to draft a NT in round 1 or round 2

ALL Round 1 NTs currently playing:

1. Vince Wilfork (Patriots 2004- Present)

2. Casey Hampton (Steelers 2001-Present)

3. Ryan Pickett (Rams 2001-2005, Packers 2006- Present)

4. Haloti Ngata (Ravens 2006–present)

5. B.J. Raji (Packers 2009)

 

ALL Round 2 NTs currently playing

1. Jamal Williams (Chargers 1998-2009)

2. Kris Jenkins (Panthers 2001-2007, Jets 2008-Present)

3. Shaun Rogers (Lions 2001-2007, Browns 2008-Present)

Star-divide

     Of the NTs taken after round 2 in the draft  there are: 

 

Ron Edwards(Bills 2001-2005, Chiefs 2006-Present) starter

Sione Pouha(Jets 2005–present) backup

Ian Scott(Bears 2003-2006, Eagles 2007, Chargers 2008) backup

Paul Soliai(2007–present) *backup*

Ron Fields (Bills 2001–2005, Chiefs 2006–present) starter

Aubrayo Franklin(Ravens 2003–2006) starter

Kelly Gregg Eagles 1999-2000, Ravens (2000-present) backup

Ahtyba Rubin (Browns 2008–present) backup

Jason Ferguson(Jets 1997–2004, Cowboys 2005–2007, Dolphins 2008–present) *starter*

Jay Ratliff(Cowboys 2005–present) starter

 

     The undrafted FA NTs were:

 

Bryan Robinson(Rams 1997, Bears 1998–2003, Dolphins 2004, Bengals 2005–2007, Cardinals 2008-present ) starter

Ogemdi Nwagbuo(Chargers 2008–present) backup

 

     If we draft a NT any later than round 2 it is a total crap shoot.  Ferguson and Ratliff were both picked by Parcells, yes... but they are not the dominant players that the guys in round 1 and round 2 are.  Do we really want to roll the dice on one of the key positions of a 3-4 defense?  Simply put if we don't have a NT everything else we do on defense will fail.

     Of the teams that have a NT that was chosen in round 1 of the draft there are the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, and Ravens(all fairly solid defenses).  Of the teams that have a NT that was picked in round 2 are the Jets, Chargers and Browns.  The teams that have a NT picked later than the 2nd round are the Cardinals Cowboys, Broncos, Chiefs, Dolphins, and 49ers(none of them have been known to have a solid defense year in and year out). 

     I have heard that Parcells can pick up a late round NT.  True in

1997 Draft

Jason Ferguson (7th round)

Bryan Robinson (undrafted FA)

1998 Supplemental Draft

Jamal Williams (2nd round)

2001 Draft

Casey Hampton (Rd 1, pick 19)

Ryan Pickett (Rd 1, pick 29)

Kris Jenkins(Round 2, Pick 44)

Shaun Rogers (Rd 2, Pick 61)

Ron Edwards (Rd 3, Pick 76)

2005 Draft

Aubrayo Franklin (Round 5, Pick 146)

 

2006 Draft

Haloti Ngata (Rd 1, pick 12)

 

     The point of all this is these types of players are rare finds.  If we think we will just be able to find that one rare guy in the 7th round, we are fooling ourselves.  We would be lucky if there is one in the draft next year at all.  It also appears to me that we can solve this problem for years to come.   

     How about a little Dolphins history lesson.  If we want we can go back to Miami's defense of the late 90s.  At that time we had Tim Bowens and Daryl Gardener up front at DT(we played a 4-3 back then).  They improved the play of an undersized linebacker/tackling machine that we picked up in the 5th round of 1996 named Zach Thomas.  We didn't have to worry about teams running the ball on us.  We shut down the run, forcing teams to throw the ball.  We then teed off on them with the likes of Jason Taylor (3rd round 1997) and Trace Armstrong, forcing QBs to make bad throws to receivers being covered by our 2 lock-down corners Sam Madison(2nd round 1997) and Patrick Surtain(2nd round 1998). 

     It isn't as much that we need to get a FS with ball instincts as it is about forcing bad throws into tight coverage, a plan that still works.  I might have mentioned this before, but our safeties were #1 and #2 in tackles last year.  If we can let the FS stop worrying about coming up and making tackles and start worrying about figuring out where they can jump a route, we will automatically improve our FS.

   So how did we wind up with these 2 guys?  We drafted Tim Bowens in round 1 of the 1994 draft(pick 20).  We later picked up Daryl Gardener in the 1st round of the 1996 draft (pick 20).  In 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001, we made the playoffs.  We lost Gardener in 2002 and later Bowens in 2004.  From there the next time we made the playoffs was 2008 after picking up Jason Ferguson.

    Granted it is a little simplified and a lot of other things were happening during those times.  But you can not deny that they were an integral part in that defense that dominated for so long.  While only Tim Bowens made the Pro Bowl both were a force to be reckoned with.  We didn't worry about any team running against us.  If we had been able to put together an offense for Dan Marino to work with during that time, we would have done more than just make the playoffs.  We never at this point had any running game to mention, although we were desperatly trying.

     While I would like to see us pick up a #1 receiver, I am not sure about any of the guys that will be available in round 1.  I also think that this is a passing league and the last thing we need is more of a running game than we have.  We kept 4 RBs last year and at no point did we have a problem running the ball.  Once Ronnie Brown went down we still ran the ball though not as much even though we were getting 8-9 guys in the box because of our lack of a #1 receiver.

     It is easy to find a 300+lb guy, and you can pick one up anywhere in the draft.  It is much rarer to find a 300+lb guy that can be dominant as a NT.   As rare as it is to find that rare guy that can be an impact NT is it not hard to spot one.  Most of them will be gone if we pass on them with the 12th pick and hope to pick them up at 43.  While we might be able to pick one up in round 2, all of them will be gone soon after that. 

Poll
Should the Dolphins try to address the gaping hole at NT with pick 12, pick 43 or later in the draft?
Pick 12
19 votes
Pick 43
30 votes
Bill Parcells can definately find us a late round gem
14 votes

63 votes | Poll has closed

This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.

Comment 62 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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Kade Weston, Georgia, 6th round...

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by Alpha6 on Mar 18, 2010 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

cnt say i disagree

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by chrislucas on Mar 18, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL @ 'gaping hole'

Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.
Pre-order your boarding pass for the "Draft LaRon Byrd in 2011" newly procured Boeing 747-200B (formerly Air Force One) now!
In case you weren't already aware, it is indeed all about The U.
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by chrislucas on Mar 18, 2010 4:50 PM EDT reply actions  

eh ... whatever...

I have faith the front office knows more about football than you do….

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 18, 2010 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

you obviously missed the point of my reply

Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.
Pre-order your boarding pass for the "Draft LaRon Byrd in 2011" newly procured Boeing 747-200B (formerly Air Force One) now!
In case you weren't already aware, it is indeed all about The U.
"opps i just grabed sum wood & started nawing" --WZB (CKC 2/2/10)

by chrislucas on Mar 18, 2010 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh.... my bad ...

I thought you were being sarcastic….

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 18, 2010 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope just baiting someone to type 'gaping hole' into google image search and watch the magic unfold

Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.
Pre-order your boarding pass for the "Draft LaRon Byrd in 2011" newly procured Boeing 747-200B (formerly Air Force One) now!
In case you weren't already aware, it is indeed all about The U.
"opps i just grabed sum wood & started nawing" --WZB (CKC 2/2/10)

by chrislucas on Mar 18, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

get a safety in the first...

preferably Taylor Mays, and then get Cam Thomas in the second.

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by Kdog92 on Mar 18, 2010 5:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Taylor Mays will be a bust

he has no football skills, he’s just a freak athlete

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 18, 2010 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok...Brandon Marshall then?

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by Kdog92 on Mar 18, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 18, 2010 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Main reason I think we should draft a NT in the first two rounds is because

thats where Williams, Cody and Thomas are gonna be but I think the FO will wait, pick one up in the middle rounds and another one late.

by okcdolphinsfan on Mar 18, 2010 6:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

preferably Jay Ross out of Georgia that man will be better than Williams in my opinion

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by DPL3 Rollin on Mar 18, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Phins go NT in either the 1st or 2nd round it will be a "reach" and "reach" leads to bust.

Here is a quote from Barry Jackson’s article on NT’s in the Miami Herald:

ESPN’s K.C. Joyner, who graded (Dan) Williams’ 2009 work, said that though his ``upside is tremendous,‘’ he’s inconsistent and won only one of 17 point-of-attack run blocks he faced versus UF and Auburn.

Is the #12 pick worth taking a player that only won 1-17 point of attack run blocks? Does this sound like a guy who stuffs the run consistently?

Or how about this quote from the same article about Williams:

Picking Williams 12th is ``way too high — he wasn’t a dominant player,’’ said Sporting News analyst/ex-Browns scout Russ Lande.

So if I get this right, the Phins should draft a player at #12 who wasn’t dominant and didn’t stuff the run very well? That is the definition of a “reach”.

Let's get offensive this offseason!
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by ct1361 on Mar 18, 2010 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed

no matter what, YOU DON’T REACH IN ROUND 1.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 18, 2010 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol ... You haven't seen my other posts....

I make the case that Terrence Cody is the more dominant NT. He was the reason people think so highly of McClain. He has the unique ability to take over a game at NT. Say what you want about the guy’s weight problems but if he comes in on draft day at 340lbs like he says he will he is not a reach at 12 at all.

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 19, 2010 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes he will

he’s proven that he’s had weight problems already. Just because he’s dropping as we get closer to the draft doesn’t mean he’s committed to staying in shape. It’s called “damn, if I don’t shape up, I’m gonna cost myself a ton of money.” I’ll guarantee Cody shows up at training camp 20 lbs heavier than he weighs on draft day.

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LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

... he's already thinking of all the fried chicken that money will buy...

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by Alpha6 on Mar 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

you ain't kidding lol

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 19, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And what about Vince Wilfork?

He plays at around 370lbs. I don’t see anyone complaining that he is overweight, or that he is only a 2 down NT.

I can’t get enough of that cartoon…

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 19, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1, solidifies my identical arguement

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by finzrule on Mar 18, 2010 7:28 PM EDT reply actions  

This is fine, but . . .

NT isn’t our biggest need, and you’d expect better players to be drafted in higher rounds. None of this should come as a shock to anyone. Also, there isn’t a NT worth taking in the 1st RD – let alone at #12. I wouldn’t draft Cody or Thomas in the 2nd unless a lot of “my guys” get snatched early.

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by sister_ray on Mar 18, 2010 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

How many guys do you think are living on this planet that can play NT?

     Doesn’t the sheer rarity of finding an athlete like that warrant a high draft position?? How many guys can run sub 4.4s? How many guys are there on this planet that can play NT in the NFL? It is easy to find a fat slob, it is not like you are just sticking a big body out there to do that, you need a uniquely gifted athlete who can do the job.

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 19, 2010 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's not the point

how many guys that can be ELITE NT’s are in this draft? To me, I don’t see one right away. Williams isn’t a space-eater, so there’s no guarantee he can be a good NT. Cody is a slob. Some of the middle round guys would be better picks IMO because it’s a low-risk spot to draft a NT, and you may be able to develop one of these big bodies into what you want, without losing a high pick if it doesn’t work out.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 19, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree...

Doesn’t the sheer rarity of finding an athlete like that warrant a high draft position??”

Let me throw the rare types… Barry Sanders (CJ Spiller), Jason Taylor (JPP or Jerry Hughes), Randy Moss (Dez Bryant), Troy Palumalo (Eric Berry).

A 4.4 speed is not the end all for the NT position. Leverage, hands use, snap off the ball, feeling the O-line, are some of the skills you may have meant as unique gifts. And yes, just like any other position, they can be found in later rounds.

Teams have to put value on positions… someone who passes the ball, someone who protects the passer and someone who gets to the passer. Rushing linebacker is valued higher than a NT.

Then there’s BPA…………….

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by Alpha6 on Mar 19, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously? You are comparing CJ Spiller to Barry Sanders?

I think it is little early to make that comparison…. I think it is a little too early to make the comparisons with any of the players you listed also…. What about Vince Wilfork(Terrence Cody)… Did you see how quickly all the elite NTs were franchised this year? even the crappy ones were snatched up… Meanwhile you still have FS’s sitting out there with talent, and some WRs even that could help a team out…. If so many teams are viewing it as that hard to fill maybe there is something to it?
     It is easy to find a big guy…. but like Jeff Ireland said, “There are only so many big guys walking on this earth, It’s a big priority in any defense. When you find them, you’ve got to keep them.”

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 19, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope it’s no earlier than the 2nd round to be honest.

If you factor out QB, LT, Suh and McCoy – the #12 pick must yield at least a 3 down + ST kind of player. If Nolan got a 1st round draft pick clause, I’m guessing Berry, E. Thomas and possibly Hughes, Kindle or another OLB are on his list.

Otherwise – Bryant, Spiller and D. Thomas are the class of the group. IMHO

   

It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. ~ John Wooden

by smahtaz on Mar 18, 2010 9:28 PM EDT reply actions  

hey uncle I think I found something easier to do then a helicopter.

Dolphin colors please…

THE TYLER THIGPEN BAND-WAGON
I'M DRIVING IT WHO'S BRAVE ENOUGH TO JUMP ON?!?!?!?!
With the #12 pick in the 2010 Draft the Miami Dolphins pick ...... CJ SPILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pilot of the CJ SPILLER cobra helicopter
OOOOOOOOO C-A-N-E-S AHHHHH(crowd yelling at kickoff!!!)

by Weecho85 on Mar 18, 2010 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol forget it I found a program that works for me

THE TYLER THIGPEN BAND-WAGON
I'M DRIVING IT WHO'S BRAVE ENOUGH TO JUMP ON?!?!?!?!
With the #12 pick in the 2010 Draft the Miami Dolphins pick ...... CJ SPILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pilot of the CJ SPILLER cobra helicopter
OOOOOOOOO C-A-N-E-S AHHHHH(crowd yelling at kickoff!!!)

by Weecho85 on Mar 19, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol forget it I found a program that works for me

THE TYLER THIGPEN BAND-WAGON
I'M DRIVING IT WHO'S BRAVE ENOUGH TO JUMP ON?!?!?!?!
With the #12 pick in the 2010 Draft the Miami Dolphins pick ...... CJ SPILLER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pilot of the CJ SPILLER cobra helicopter
OOOOOOOOO C-A-N-E-S AHHHHH(crowd yelling at kickoff!!!)

by Weecho85 on Mar 19, 2010 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

interesting

he looks a little light for a NT

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 19, 2010 1:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

more like a sneaky FS

TYLER THIGPEN BAND-WAGON
I'M DRIVING IT WHO'S BRAVE ENOUGH TO JUMP ON?!?!?!
Pilot of the CJ SPILLER cobra helicopter

IT SIMPLY IS ALL ABOUT U!!!
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by Weecho85 on Mar 19, 2010 2:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

You need to drop you sig lines down to 5 lines before Matty gets after you brother!

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.

by texascowpunk on Mar 19, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

lol he already did, got the warning this morning.

I didn’t know till it was to late. Lol long night I was high and having fun.

Pilot of the CJ SPILLER cobra helicopter
IT SIMPLY IS ALL ABOUT U!!!
"You wanna get high man? Does howdy doody have wooden balls?"
"Keep on knockin but you can't come innnn!!!"
- Cheech & Chong - Up in Smoke -

by Weecho85 on Mar 19, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL Well I tried to warn you. At least now you know.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.

by texascowpunk on Mar 19, 2010 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol

Pilot of the CJ SPILLER cobra helicopter
IT SIMPLY IS ALL ABOUT U!!!
"You wanna get high man? Does howdy doody have wooden balls?"
"Keep on knockin but you can't come innnn!!!"
- Cheech & Chong - Up in Smoke -

by Weecho85 on Mar 19, 2010 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

True story!

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.

by texascowpunk on Mar 19, 2010 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Bill Parcells

has run the 3-4 long enough and knows plenty about football to assess the players we have on this roster or those in the draft. With his NT draft/acquisition history, whatever that man does is cool by me. If he thinks we’re fine, we’re fine. If we draft Dan Williams, awesome. I’m sure he will find some acorns and one will stick.

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

1a. Eric Berry, S, Tennessee/1b. Earl Thomas, S, Texas
1c. C.J. Spiller, RB, Clemson/1d. Dan Williams, NT, Tennessee
1e. Sergio Kindle, OLB, Texas/1f. Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan

by Dave.Phuller on Mar 19, 2010 1:10 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Jeff Ireland....

Q: Where is NT Jason Ferguson in his recovery?

Ireland: “Jason’s doing very well in his rehab. He’s not quite ready to play today, but he should be ready by the beginning of the season hopefully. Again, he’s a free agent. I think Paul Soliai developed very nicely [last] year. You never have enough defensive linemen. We felt like it was a strength of our team, but certainly it’s something we need to build. ou can never have enough good players.”

That said … this is the same interview that he told everyone that Gibril got a bad rap … right before we cut him….

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 19, 2010 8:09 AM EDT reply actions  

But Jason was extended and signed, right?

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by Alpha6 on Mar 19, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

yup

Jason was re-signed

Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
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LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet

by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 19, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still ....

     Its no reason not to think that we won’t go NT with our first pick in the draft … especially if one gets taken before we get up at pick 12…
     There is no way that we wait around until we pick again in that situation and try to get someone when that is by far the biggest need on our defense… Paul Soliai may be a 3rd down NT, but he can not cut it in 1st and 2nd down. The bottom line is if you can not stop people on 1st and 2nd down … you will never get to 3rd down….

by Jason Scott_90 on Mar 19, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL... yes we do....

Sweet dreams… LOL

Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"

by Alpha6 on Mar 19, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

are made of these.

2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.

by Patssuck456 on Mar 20, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

There you are Annie!

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
"Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that."-Steve Earle
Currently one of three pilots for the new and improved SpillWagon fleet of Chinook’s.

by texascowpunk on Mar 20, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

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