Building Through The Draft: An unofficial case study, part two
I wanted to continue on today with our unscientific look at past drafts. Again, this analysis is for nothing more than providing food for thought. There will be a point to this at the end. But for now, just read over the results and share your initial reactions.
And again, if you missed it, the idea behind this series of posts was explained yesterday in part one. In a nut shell, though, I'm hoping to create some discussion on the idea that it is best to build through the draft rather than dealing away early draft picks (for the purpose of this study, rounds one and two are being considered "early draft picks") in exchange for proven (but potentially troublesome) veterans.
The basis of this discussion centers around how successful every NFL team has been since 2000 in "hitting" on their draft picks in the first two rounds of the draft. You will find my "defined categories" below, as well as the results for the next two drafts, the 2002 and 2003 drafts.
The categories for these next two drafts are defined as follows:
Superstar - Player named as 1st team All-Pro more than once and who has multiple Pro Bowl appearances.
Star - Named 1st team All-Pro one time or has more than one Pro Bowl appearance.
Starter - At least four years as a primary starter and has not appeared in more than one Pro Bowl.
Disappointment - Not at least a four year starter but has appeared in at least 64 games (equivalent to four 16 game seasons).
Bust - Played in fewer than 64 career games.
If you'd like to see the players selected in each draft, you can click here for the 2002 draft or here for the 2003 draft.
The 2002 NFL Draft 1st and 2nd Round Results:
| Category | # of Players | % of Draft Picks |
| Superstar | 4 | 6.2% |
| Star | 7 | 10.8% |
| Starter | 24 | 36.9% |
| Disappointment | 19 | 29.2% |
| Bust | 11 | 16.9% |
It's interesting to note how over 46% of the players selected in the first two rounds of 2002 were not NFL starters for at least four seasons. On the flip side, 17% were either named an All-Pro at least once or went to more than one Pro Bowl. Some "busts" from this class include Mike Williams, (the OT, not the WR, taken 4th overall), Wendell Bryant (12th overall), and William Green (16th overall). But there were four "superstars" - Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney, Albert Haynesworth, and Ed Reed, all of which play on the defensive side of the ball.
Of the first round alone, 10 of the 32 picks were either "disappointments" or "busts" while 8 were "stars" or "superstars."
The 2003 NFL Draft 1st and 2nd Round Results:
| Category | # of Players | % of Draft Picks |
| Superstar | 3 | 4.7% |
| Star | 6 | 9.4% |
| Starter | 23 | 35.9% |
| Disappointment | 15 | 23.4% |
| Bust | 17 | 26.6% |
The '03 class had a whopping six more "busts" than the '02 class while producing two fewer "stars" or "superstars." Some of the notable "busts" include Charles Rogers (2nd overall), Johnathan Sullivan (6th overall), Byron Leftwich (7th overall) and Jerome McDougle (15th overall). The three "superstars" were all first round picks - Andre Johnson, Kevin Williams, and Troy Polamalu.
The first round of 2003 saw 13 players chosen who ended up in the bottom two categories while only 7 were in the top two.
We'll continue on with three more drafts before tallying up the results of this very unscientific but rather interesting look at past drafts.
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Looking at all 4 years in this summary (00-03) easy to see why we had no playmakers and a few now.
Our new coaching staff have a clue and are slowly but surely adding playmakers. Glad that decade is over
tell me how did we win 11 games with those, almost same player's (Strength of scedule) & playing a last place lineup like we did???
“I guess” Beavers arnt to smartt. If any one cares to enlighten me, greatly apreach.
by wild zion beaver on Mar 17, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
great QB play from a savvy vet that made the most of our talent
Brady getting hurt 6 mins in. The lowest strength of schedule in the league. An unnaturally low amount of turnovers and penalties. Winning the close games. It was the perfect storm, and our team took advantage of it.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
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Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That is a talent so to speak, taking advantage of opportunities.
The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
And, as always, screw the JETS!!!!!!!!
Jerome McDougal
He had all chances of being a star, but he had alot of strings of bad luck. between getting hurt and shot he didnt have much luck. I dont think you can count him as bust becaue of the simple fact that he was always hurt. I think had he stayed healthy he would be in the top 15 at his position.
Deja vu!
What was the name of the WR we drafted on the 90’s and always was hurt? lol
Yatil Green? ; ) Or Yatil Bust Green?
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(23 years and counting)
You beat me to it!
I was just about to post the same thing!
Right!
If Yatil Green was in the draft this year everyone would be crying over drafting him just like Dez. :)
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
He was the definition of unlucky
I’m suprised he still has that leg, seriously who screws up their leg that badly on the very first day of TC?
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
... with one blind eye... lol
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Interesting side note
Good article about derrick mason and the 97 draft class. Last man standing of the WRs taken that year. Including poor mr. yatil green. 10 surgeries on his knee..
http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/bal-sp.ravens18dec18002021,0,2679897.story
I don't know that I would call Leftwich a bust.
Injuries, an aging offense, and a desperate coach spelled his fate. I’d say before the injury he was becoming a solid starter.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Agreed
The danger here is hindsight. He looks like a bust years after the fact. Any team needing a QB who saw Leftwich win his last college game on a broken leg would have drafted him in a heartbeat.
Was Jim Plunket a bust? At this point in Leftwich’s career people would have said so..then he ended up an the Raiders and won a SB.
This thread is showing the daft is a crap shoot…drafting qbs is a crap shoot on steriods.
With the 46th pick of the 2000 draft NE selected Hawaii OT Adrian Klemm. He’s now the OL coach at SMU.
With the 199th pick they got a QB from Michigan who’s pretty much on his way to Canton – are they stupid or smart?
If any of us could come up with a system that would accurately predict how a college QB will play in the pros…we’d be very rich.
by PhrozenPhish on Mar 17, 2010 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
QB's don't bust any more often than other positions
you just hear more about them. Since 93, highly-drafted DT’s have busted more often than QB’s
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a bust based on Matty's previously ordained criteria...
In Part 1, Matty listed the criteria for a player being placed in each category…check it out! :)
Fair point
I’m drifting a little bit ..yes, according to the criteria Leftwich does generate a “bust” rating…fair enough.
I guess my point is he wasn’t like Ryan Leaf (immaturity) where there were signs he wasn’t going to be a solid NFL QB..if anything his makeup and his arm suggested he’d be a star.
The number of busts in the first two rounds in the four drafts we’ve looked at suggests it’s almost a 50/50 proposition that you won’t get a bust. You start to wonder if being a scout is like being a weatherman.
The NFL website is currently running the 75 best undrafted players of all time…about 20 of them are in the Hall of Fame.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d816fb4f0&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
Cheers
by PhrozenPhish on Mar 17, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Read the description its funny
Bart Scott, LB, Southern Illinois Ravens 2002 8 1 Versatile linebacker who is also great leader
The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
And, as always, screw the JETS!!!!!!!!
That Warren Moon pick has me confused...
why is he looking backwards? And if he’s not looking backwards, why is his throwing arm closer to the line of scrimmage than his offhand!?
Driver of the Keep The Ginnja Bandwagon
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
Rolling to his left?
All I can come up with.
by PhrozenPhish on Mar 17, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I read it, but he didn't take into account injuries and other contributing factors.
I used to think I had a drinking problem.
So I stopped thinking.
Leftwich is a fantasy girl's name who devels in magic....
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
I'm interested in seeing the rest of the posts Matty
Because right now, I am trending to trading as many picks as possible for certain starters and stars. The stats above suggest that picks in the 1st two rounds are a coin flips (50% for – 50% against) for starters. Yet if you trade a 1st or 2nd round pick, you are almost certainly getting a starter.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
... but how many of these supposed starters that are traded for...
… continue to be starters or just drifters, putting in just enough to not get benched or cut the very next year… reference: E. Wilford, G. Wilson, J. Porter, M Booker, D. Culpepper, and that’s just a few from this team, not counting others around the league…
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Wilford, Wilson, Porter were all FA signings
Booker was a starter and a deperation move because of an injury. Culpepper, I got nothing. That was just a dumb move.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Icognito signed
The Dolphins have reached a deal with guard Richie Incognito to make the lineman just the second new addition to the roster since the start of free agency. The sides have agreed to terms, and the contract is currently being finalized, two sources said Wednesday morning.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/17/1533456/miami-dolphins-keep-guard-richie.html#ixzz0iRbA7L6K
thanks for the heads up
2009 NY Phin PhansFantasy League Champion
2009 Best Regular Season Record in NYPPL.
2010 The Jim Mandich NewsFlash Award Winner.
Now the question is how do trades involving 1st or 2nd round pick pan out
Looks to me like a first round pick for Marshall (a proven star) is not so bad after all.
... until that crap shoot gets arrested and is gone for the year...
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
The same could happen with any draft pick. At least in the trade you know what you are getting.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
Teams know what their getting in college players...
… they do background checks and find their character through history.
In Marshall in particular, a team knows what they are getting… a guy who likes to hit girls, bat balls down in practice like a little kid who throws a tantrum because he doesn’t get what he wants, and bad-mouths team mates.
All I’m saying is that tossing draft picks at teams for a player aint a sure thing either… I remember the AJ Feely quarterback crap shoot from the Eagles.
I also wish other teams would throw draft picks to the Dolphins for Thigpen, Brown, Ginn White, Fasano, Moses, Bess, and Haynos. Some of these are proven, but there’s no guarantee that they will do as good or better with another team… but I wish some team would try for picks…. lol
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
Teams know the same about all players whether they are existing pro's or college athletes
Nothing is secret. But the big difference between acquiring pro or college players is that you know exactly what you are getting in a pro player because he has a track record. Which WR would you rather have (assuming that you were going to go WR) at #12, Marshall or Dez Bryant? Both have baggage. Both will command essentially the same amount of money. To me it is a no brainer: Marshall.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
agreed
If you have to choose between trading a first round pick for a 25 year old pro bowler, top 5-10 at his position, or drafting ANYONE, you make the trade. Draft picks don’t always pan out, no matter how good they look in college. A guy who has already made the pro bowl in the NFL, is pretty much a sure-bet that you are getting a stud.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
... but if we're talkin strickly Marshall...
… I thought it was a 1st and 3rd pick to get him. Which means he takes up two positions. So I still do not think he’s worth it, if that’s the case.
I also don’t believe the baggage is the same. But if it’s a one for one, ok, I see the point.
Idk, maybe it’s me… I don’t like my team giving up picks. FA is good, but no to having to trade.
Makes me wonder if it was a no-brainer, why the Dolphins or any other team haven’t jumped at getting the fabulous Marshall.
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
he's tendered for just a 1st
so if Denver doesn’t match the deal, we only give up pick 12
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Then that speaks volumes...
… if the Dolphins aren’t jumping at it. Is the team saying"no" to a 1st pick receiver (Marshall or Dez)? Is the team saying “no” to Marshall directly? Is the team saying “no” to giving up draft picks? Is the team “no” because they’re filling another need, or filling the receiver issue in another way… say Spiller?
Somewhere, folks are seeing this trade for Marshall as easy, yet from the people that count for decision making, they aren’t near it.
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
I actually think that a deal for Marshall will get down prior to the draft
But it might not be for a #1. I think GM’s all over the league are waiting to see if the price drops (#2 and #4?). But if it doesn’t, I still think that someone will give a #1 for Marshall.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
True. Forgot there's the time continuum...
Enjoyed the lesson from the coaches!
Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"Official draft Koa Misi bus -- the A.J. Duhe of this decade!"
right
I think teams are trying to see if they can pry Marshall for less. But personally, I would jump at that 1st rounder, because once the price goes down, I’m sure there will be plenty of teams ready to throw some mid-round picks away
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Six Career Matty Awards
LN21 and MHTD - Goin Commando
Piloting the Lead Chopper in the CJ "the Thriller" Spiller SpillWagon Helicopter Fleet
by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
A STRAWMAN?
I think the author is taking a position that not too many people would argue against. I’ve never heard that the best way to build a team is through any means other than the draft. Oh, well, at leasts it’s something to discuss.
George Allen
Didn’t trust rookies and traded away all his draft picks for veterans.
He’s the only guy I can think of that didn’t believe in the value of the draft. Salary/fa rules would prevent you from trying that now I would think.
Cheers
by PhrozenPhish on Mar 17, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
MATTY I
A worthwhile follow-up to this series would be the positives and negatives of FAs
How often does a FA exceed, meet, or fall short of expectations?
How often does a FA harm or benefit the chemistry of a team?
How long does it take a FA to become a team leader or to upset pre-existing team leaders?
Break these down into both Premier FAs and then Solid FAs (lower tier guys aren’t relevant imo).
If Nolan thinks we can start a rookie FS with success, then I'm all for it. Otherwise, I really REALLY hate to see us endup with both a weak pass and run defense... So otherwise get the NT!
The numbers are not surprising to me..
as I’ve spent some time delving into past drafts and seeing how successful the process is.
Having Matty quantify it per year and put it in a summarized form as he’s done here though, is very useful for illustrating the value as well as risks, of draft picks.
From the information Matty has presented so far, on drafts from 2000, ’01, ’02, ’03, you are looking at a minimum of 41% of the players picked in the first two rounds falling into the disappointment/bust category. Assuming each team has 1 pick in each of those rounds, that means from 2000-2003, the average team picked 8 players in those first two rounds, and roughly 3.5 (yes a fraction) were busts/disappointments.
What is most striking is that players picked this early are the most heavily scouted, evaluated, tested, and retested of I would say, any sport in the world. Yet at least 40% of those players are big disappointments or outright busts.
That certainly lends credence to the argument that trading picks for a known commodity, as in a current NFL player with an established track record, is one way to go. The problem is that teams seem to go to extremes with this….whereby they go all out and give away their draft picks with little regard, all too add that one big name. The washington redskins have been a good example of this approach.
I think they key is to use the available channels to acquire players (meaning draft, trades, and FA), wisely. One thing the draft does is give you the chance to acquire plenty of depth at a variety of positions, (at a minimum), as well as uncover potential stars (in later rounds). Plus, every year’s FA class is different and whose available in the open market may not match your need. This is almost always the case with QB’s for example, as top or highly regarded QB’s almost never hit the open market as FA’s.
Altogether I think the draft takes top priority the further you are from contending. As a team builds up talent and has only a small number of needs, then a key FA or trade can take you to the next level. The saints had been a talented team now for several years since getting Brees, but a few key additions in the last 1-2 years are what imo, made them SB champs.
by Natalya on Mar 17, 2010 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think you are partly correct with your assessment on busts / dissappointments
But I think one of the reasons for so many busts / disappointments are teams desires to fill needs in the 1st and 2nd round instead of drafting BPA (Something that Nicky is writing about now with his draft strategies posts). I also think teams don’t compare different draft classes correctly. When we were debating who the Phins should pick prior to the ’09 draft and people wanted Vontae Davis because he was the best player available at a position of need, CB. I read one scouting report or heard a scout say that if Davis had come out for the ’08 draft, he would have been the 5th or 6th CB in that class and would have been taken in the late 2nd round or early 3rd in ’08. But he came out in ’09, was arguably the 2nd best CB in that draft and would be taken at the end of the 1st round. So, knowing that, was Davis a reach in the 1st round even though he had the 2nd best grade at the position in the draft? Maybe.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
But he has shown he was worth taking with the 25th pick
I understand your point but he is not the best example.
The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
And, as always, screw the JETS!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure he was worth the #25 pick
I don’t think he played that well. Would you rather have Davis or Clay Matthews? Matthews led the #2 defense in sacks last year.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)
For me that would beg the question of how much of his success can be attributed to having Pickett,
one of the top NTs in the League,clear the way for him.
Isn’t the success of the LBs,Safeties and DBs directly determined by the effectiveness of the DL just as the WRs,RBs and QB are totally reliant on the OL.
OL doesn’t block QB has no time to throw and RBs have no holes to run through,DL doesn’t penetrate or at the very least occupy the OL then LBs can’t run free and wreak havoc in the backfield and DBs are asked to cover so long that they break down.
by firedanhenningnow on Mar 18, 2010 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm, I have to say that it is dangerous to generalize
in taking a draft the BPA approach.
Case in point, so should the dolphins have drafted a LT or QB last season in the first round if these were the 2 BPA’s? In this year’s draft then that theory of BPA would suggest Eric Berry end up in Detroit/St Louis, which isn’t going to happen, nor would it be smart.
I think you have to weigh the situation carefully and assess it accordingly. If you are set or stacked at a position, you don’t draft a guy in the same spot, simply because said player is the best available.
A huge reach is potentially not the right way to go either and by that I mean taking a guy a full round ahead of time. But again, it is all an individual case by case situation whereby a teams situation must be closely looked at.
Miami is sort of a tweener case because we are on the cusp of a playoff spot. Fill a few needs with some decent upgrades and the team earns a playoff trip. Now if those were not decent upgrades but substantial ones then it might be enough to push the team to a much higher level.
by Natalya on Mar 17, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I think you should draft your BPA regardless of position in the 1st round
You can’t have too many good players. Can a drafted LT play RT? Doesn’t that help your team? As long as that player is your best player available and not Mel Kiper’s or Mike Mayock’s, draft him and get him on the field.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
"Walter, I love you, but sooner or later, you're going to have to face the fact you're a goddamn moron." THE DUDE (The Big Lebowski)

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