Is it really a passing league?

by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 6:35 PM EDT

As I'm sure all of you have heard that the NFL is now a "passing league". I beg to differ.

Although the NFL is no longer the same NFL of 20 or 30 years ago (power running + power defense = championships), it isn't quite a "passing" league quite yet. Rather, it is a changing league.

Why do I say that? Look at all of the best teams in the NFL for the past 5 years. Almost all of them have been extremely balanced teams, and that is what eases NFL success; balance.

Perfect example: Look at this year's championship team, the Saints. Although they are a passing team, they do not RELY on that passing game, and that is key. They have a running game that they can fall back on, and a defense that can stop explosive teams from scoring, and can create turnovers.

The Saints could still win without Drew Brees, could they have gone as far as they did? Probably not. But, lets look at it the other way, they could also win without that spectacular triple threat of Pierre Thomas, Reggie Bush, and Mike Bell. Again, could they have won a championship without them? Probably not. You can do the same thing with their defense, and with any other part of their team that were considered a"key" to their success, and they will probably still be a solid team.

Now, if you do the same thing with an average team, like ours, the Dolphins (last season): You take away our running game, we fall apart. You take away our run defense (which was a strength until Ferguson got injured), we fall apart. We don't have a passing game to fall back on, or a beast defense either.

My point is, I still think that the more important aspect in the NFL right now is the running game, even though this isn't the ONLY aspect you need to take care of. I say this because if your passing game isn't there, you can fall back on the run, but if your running game isn't there, depending on your team and opponent, you cannot necessarily fall back on your passing game. Why? Because with the running game, you control the clock. With the running game, you can wear out the defensive line, and with the running game, you set up the play action pass. That being said: The run sets up the pass. So without the run, you probably won't be able to pass (unless you have Peyton Manning throwing to Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, and Dallas Clark).

This also brings up the importance of the offensive line. Without one, you can neither run nor pass. One of the greatest football minds showed us that by drafting a LT over a QB at the 1st overall pick in '08.

Finally, I know I have gone out on a few tangents here, but it all points back to how the NFL is a changing league. Will it stay the way it is now? Where a good balance wins games? I don't know. Will it continue to change and become a true passing league? Who knows?

Thoughts?

Poll

What "type" of league is the NFL right now?

Hasn't changed, a good running game and defense wins championships

6 votes

A changing league (balance; how I described it)

26 votes

A changing league (describe below)

3 votes

A passing league

22 votes

WHO CARES!

11 votes

68 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

I hear your argument but I'm not buying it one bit

Lets look at not only the past SB winners, but losers as well.

2010

Saints – Sure the Saints can run, but thats only because they spread the ball around so good. You gonna try to tell me that the Saints are a “balanced offense” when Brees almost broke Marino’s passing record in 08…..please .

Colts – Peyton Manning, enough said? If not see 09 game in Miami against our Fins.

2009

Steelers – traditionally a running team, but they having move strongly to passing since “The Bus” retired. They went to and won the SB on Big Ben’s arm with Hines and Holmes.

Cardinals – Warner, Larry, Boldin, Breaston, we all know what kind of offense the Cardinals had.

2008

Giants - I’ll give you the Giants. Well balnaced team, mostly run game.

Pats - Do I really need to remind us Finfans of that passing offense of 08 nearly went undefeated?

2007

Colts – Peyton, Reggie and crew took the Colts to and won that SB. Anyone want to argue that?

Bears – Mainly a defensive team. That SB was painful to watch. Perfect example of why you want a offense while building a defense. The Colts rolled them while Rex and crew put up a yawner. We all waited for the time to run out.

So the past 4 years 6 of the 8 teams that have went to the SB was lead by a offensive passing team. Only 1 of the 2 teams they weren’t pass happy and won were he Giants and thats because God looked down and smiled on Miami.

Interestingly enought not one SB team has had the “superstar” RB. The Giants and Saints had RBs by committee.

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by Neo on Mar 16, 2010 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Kkaaaaa Dan Marino; (God love) him & his family, was ahead of his time. spread the ball around damn well & still had no inkling of a ground & pound, if you will

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions

remember, the last time that the colts WON a super bowl, addai was actually playing well

and all of these teams that you mentioned did not RELY on their passing?running game

Saints- argument above

Colts- this is the year that they beefed up their defense, this is the year they almost make history

Steelers- without that running game, they would not have made it to the super bowl (not to mention that top defense)

Cards- HOF QB (kurt) throwing to possible HOF WR (Fitz) other top WR (boldin) very good slot (Breaston), beastly defense (Adrian Wilson, Antrel Rolle, Karlos Dansby, Rodgers-Cromartie, etc.), thats a pretty balanced team if u ask me, the only of the two real elite team that doesnt have at least a solid running game

Giants- perfect definition if a balanced team, BJ, Plax, Eli, and great D (including strahan)

Pats- other team that doesnt really have a steady running game, but look at the rest of the team (great o-line, brady, welker, moss, asante samuel, brushci, seymour, seau, etc.

Colts- this is when addai was playing well

Bears- not a balanced team, they made it to the SB cuz of hester and the D

another good example of a great team this year which was very balanced- vikes

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by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

wasn't there a story that came out about the Colts & there defense or am i wrong here

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2010 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions

how it actuly was starting to respond to the cridics

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

they did have a solid defense, but idk about a story

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by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Not saying they didn't have RBs that played well

But what were these teams bread and butter?

You think the Saints sniff the playoffs without Brees? You can have their RBs and their “scoring defense”. I’ll take Brees and his ability to pick apart a defense.

You can also have Addai (while playing well or great for that matter) and their “beefed up” defense. I’ll take Manning, Waye, Clark and a couple of rookie Wrs.

As far as the Steelers not making the SB w/o a Running attack …duh. Yup they did had a great defense. But like I said, Big Ben, Ward and Holmes won that SB. The Ravens have shown for years how far a team goes with a great defense, good running attack and no passing offense.

Antrel Rolle, Karlos Dansby, Rodgers-Cromartie, etc. weren’t they all on the same defense this past year and what did Rodgers and Brees do to them?
HOF QB (kurt) throwing to possible HOF WR (Fitz) other top WR (boldin) very good slot (Breaston – I’ll take these 4 and be happily on my way.

We agree on the Giants.

As far as the Pats of 08, yeah they had a decent defense, but you can’t actually argue with a straight face that their defense was anywhere close to the reason they almost went undefeated. Nobody could stop their offense, Nobody. Until the SB. But I’ll let you have their Samuel, Seymour, Seau..and 50 yr Seau, you didn’t metion him did you? I’ll just take that awesome, awesome offense.

Colts- Addai was playing well. Really they won the SB because of that? I seem to remember Peyton having “the Edge” and he was 5 times the RB Addai dreams of being. You arguing Peyton didn’t take that team and win the SB? You take Peyton away from the Colts since he was drafted and I say the Colt’s sniff the playoffs only twice.

We agree with the Bears.

Vikes? Well balanced yes. But they couldn’t come close to getting over the hump until they brought Farve in to wake up that passing attack.

So I see your argument as well, I’m not buying this one either.

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by Neo on Mar 16, 2010 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions

oh, i c how u r looking at it now

im not saying that a team’s “bread and butter” has to be the running game, what im saying is that you will very seldom find a team which has no running game be a contender, this is why, even though the passing game is the more “explosive” way to play now, running is still more important RIGHT NOW, but like i said, this league is a changing league, and right now, teams require balance, and i think we can all agree on that, because again, unless ur the cards with HOF QB (kurt) throwing to possible HOF WR (Fitz) other top WR (boldin) very good slot (Breaston), or somethig to that extent, you need balance

can we agree on that?

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by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Yea we can agree we need some balance

Marino showed for years that you can’t win a SB w/o it.

I’m just saying you need a passing offense to lead your way to the SB. A running game or a defense can’t take you there like they use to. In my opinon that is.

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by Neo on Mar 16, 2010 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't know how you get 6 out of 8

The Patriots of 07 when they were a passing team lost in the Super Bowl. I know you are just bringing up the past four years but the whole last decade is also relevant. The Patriots built a dynasty by running the ball effectively and playing great defense. I you remember, before 07 Brady never had very gaudy numbers. The Steelers can hardly qualify as a passing team except for maybe last year, but they won their Super Bowls last decade primarily by running the ball and playing great defense.

The Cardinals were a very good passing team the year they went to the Super Bowl but lets not forget the running game they established throughout the playoffs that got them there, which was the main thing they were missing during the regular season. I also think that if you went back ten years instead of four it would be more evened out.

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by Sean13 on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions

The Steelers have becaome more and more a pssing team since the Bus retired like I said

I do no remember in recent memory where the Pats were EVER a primary run 1st offense, good defense yes..

I also think that if you went back ten years instead of four it would be more evened out.

Hell, why don’t we go back 20, 30 years why we are at it to prove your point?

The question is “IS it really a passing league”

Is meaning RIGHT NOW, not 10 years ago.

I know you are just bringing up the past four years but the whole last decade is also relevant

Why is the past decade relevant? The title does not say was it a really a passing league over the past 10 years? Don’t believe so. It asked is it now. The past 4 years of the league tells more of where the league is at now than the 6 yrs previous to those 4.

But you are more than welcome to compare these 6 years to the 4 after that I mentioned to prove my point even more as to how the league changed over the past decade if you want.

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by Neo on Mar 17, 2010 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions

No its just trendy to say it

Now tell us the rank of the defense of said previous SB winners outside the Saint I believe they all fall in the top 10.

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by okokokaay on Mar 16, 2010 7:22 PM EDT reply actions

thats why im saying you need a balance (defense is part of it, without it, you cant win championships, but they aren't the only component)

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by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions

miami has always been a finess team..................................

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2010 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions

and when is the last time we have won a super bowl :(

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by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions

70's

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

xactly

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by finzrule on Mar 16, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

iguess that what they lable you if you can't run the ball to well!!!!

by wild zion beaver on Mar 16, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

WHO CARES!!!

as long as the guy with the ball gets nailed I’m in.

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by Weecho85 on Mar 16, 2010 9:36 PM EDT reply actions

rec'd, I did like the post.

WHO CARES!!!
as long as the guy with the ball gets nailed I’m in.

I saw the option and couldn’t resist.

by Weecho85 on Mar 16, 2010 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions

lol, thnx

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by finzrule on Mar 17, 2010 6:59 AM EDT up reply actions

It will become a "Pass Dominated" game until....

the league adopts some rules that allow Defenses to actually compete. Allowing 60+ yard penalties without an opportunity to challenge will become a problem, especially when a Super Bowl victory is determined after the offensive player grabs the defensive player and pulls him into himself, getting a Defensive pass interference call.

I can only respect the old QB records because those guys were allowed to get manhandled by the defense. WR’s would get dragged down off the line and those records were hard to get. Today, a pinky finger on a guys hip can get you a Pass Interference call and then there’s the questionable QB protection rules…

by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Mar 16, 2010 10:47 PM EDT reply actions

I watched an old Dolphin/Chargers game from the late 80s in a sports bar a few months ago.

A couple of things I noticed is that Dan Marino was UNBELIEVEBALE. I was born in ‘84, so I don’t really remember much from his heyday. I remember watching him, but didn’t really understand how dominate he could be. That guy had a release like a lightning bolt.

The other thing I noticed was how much the QBs got hit, and how much the receivers got hit. The QB would throw the ball and get hit a second later with no flag. I will maintain that if you put rookie Marino in the NFL today, with all the protection rules and whatnot, you would see domination on a biblical scale.

Dolphins and Gators baby!

by gatorfin on Mar 17, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I have made this same argument. If Marino entered the league with todays rules he would

put up numbers that would never be touched.

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by texascowpunk on Mar 17, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions

6000 yards in a season

easy. possibly 60 TD’s

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Why are you lowballing him?

by texascowpunk on Mar 17, 2010 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

hahaha

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by uncle finster on Mar 18, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

well he's how old now? 50?

That’s a conservative projection, even for a 50 year old Marino lol

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 18, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure but the assumption is based on him at 22 now with the skills that he had

back then.

by texascowpunk on Mar 18, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions

if so, then double those #s to 12,000 yds & 120 TDs

The 6,000 & 60 fit with his current age

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by PhinsTifosi on Mar 18, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Now thats just crazy talk there!

by texascowpunk on Mar 18, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Agreed

by uncle finster on Mar 18, 2010 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Defenses...

…have to catch up. Then the NFL will make more rule changes to benefit the quarterbacks, because the NFL is a business, and high-octane passing offenses are exciting. Exciting means more fans, more fans means more money, more money means Jolly Roger. The original running game (one workhorse back) is largely gone, with the exception of Steven Jackson. That has been replaced by RBC. Until defenses catch up to the offenses, the NFL will be known from now on as “passball”. Look at how the teams with the best running games did last season, compared to those with the best passing games. The only exception? Jests, and that was the defense.

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by 23_Wind on Mar 16, 2010 10:58 PM EDT reply actions

I think you will know it is a Passing League when

all these Spread Option QBs from college come into the NFL and their skills translate automatically.

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by gatorfin on Mar 17, 2010 9:05 AM EDT reply actions

The NFL is most definately a passing league!

The “balance” arguement just doesn’t work anymore. The number of carries or the number of yards in the running game is almost a meaningless stat in the NFL. What is the more meaningful stat to determine the direction of the league is “when” the carries and yards occurs within a game. Most of the teams that you listed above have about a 70% pass to 30% run ratio in the 1st half. That isn’t balanced. But after they have established a lead, and in the 2nd half of games, that dynamic moves closer to 50% pass / run ratio. In the 4th Quarter of games in which they are leading it might even move to 70% run.

But all of those teams established their identity passing the football. Most everyone of a certain age, say 30 or older, grew up hearing how you “run the ball to set up the pass”. How many teams do that in the NFL now? Not many. The new saying should be “pass early to get a lead, run late to keep the lead”.

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by ct1361 on Mar 17, 2010 10:54 AM EDT reply actions

Curtis Johnson, Saints WR coach, said at the UM Coaches Clinic I was at a couple weeks ago

that Payton’s philosophy is:

“Pass to score, run to win.” Which fits in with EXACTLY what you are saying. Coach Whipple (UM’s OC) said essentially the same thing, he passes to open up the run, and if you keep playing 8 in the box, he’ll pass the ball all game long.

Just some back-up to your argument from a pro guy and college guy.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Thanks Nicky.

When I was going to those coaching clinics almost 20 years ago now (Damn I’m Old, Thanks Buddy!) everything was about running the football and stopping the run. And even then I disputed some of it because the “West Coast Offense” and the “Run And Shoot” were becoming prevelant offenses. But coaches at the time said that “the quick passing game is just an extension of the running game”.

You still hear this type of BS on pregame / postgame shows. Hell Tom Jackson on ESPN before the Super Bowl predicted whichever team ran the ball better would win the game. Yeah that worked out well. Both teams threw the ball 40+ times but ran it less than 20.

by ct1361 on Mar 17, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

hahaha

you should still go to some of the clinics.. even if I wasn’t a coach, it’s still some really cool insight into the game

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I still go to the odd NFL training camp practice, but I miss the access I used to get.

Remember Ted Marchibroda? He was head coach of the Colts in the early 90’s. He used to invite our coaching staff to Colts training camp for a week. We would be on the field during practice, invited into the film room, position meetings. It was great!

How about Jim McNally? He is one of the greatest OL coaches of all time. He was with the Bengals in the early 90’s. Coach McNally and Anthony Munoz used to have OL clinics that I used to go to every year. I loved just watching film, studying techniques, and just talking football with those two guys. At this clinic one year I also got to talk with Dick LeBeau about defense.

(Interesting fact about McNally. He was on the coaching staff of Marshall the year after they lost their team to a plane crash.)

by ct1361 on Mar 17, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I remember both

and I’m jealous that you got to meet Lebeau. I got to listen to Mickey Andrews lecture, then chat with him for a few mins this year.. I was starstruck for the first time around a coach, and I’m a UM fan lol

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

I was starstruck the first couple of times too. But then you get to a point where you realize that you can be those guys.

I think I would still be in coaching if I didn’t have to recruit. I loved every aspect of the job except that. I’m telling you there are no more oily people in the country than college football coaches when it comes to recruiting (with the possible exception of college basketball coaches). They lie, cheat, steal to get a recruit. I couldn’t do it and therefore wasn’t very good at it, and I wasn’t even coaching at an elite level.

by ct1361 on Mar 17, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Damn that sucks

The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
And, as always, screw the JETS!!!!!!!!

by PotM on Mar 17, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

yup

I don’t know if I could do that part of the job either, but I’m not at that point just yet. I’d love to have the opportunity.

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

It's a lot of work for little $$, but it is fun

You move a lot, so it is hard on a family. I used to hear that all the time for the married coaches. But at the time I was young and single and loved it. But recruiting sucks the life out of you. Some guys love it (guys without a soul IMO), but I got to the point where I couldn’t do it anymore.

Looking back, though, sometimes I wish I stuck it out.

by ct1361 on Mar 17, 2010 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions

That was awesome, Im guessing

The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know.
And, as always, screw the JETS!!!!!!!!

by PotM on Mar 17, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions

One of the things I remember from Colts Camp

I was at camp in ‘94, Marshall Faulk’s rookie camp, and he was the best athlete that I had ever seen on a football field. Everything he did was fast and quick, but fluid and natural. It was amazing. Anyway after that first practice in the morning, I was walking off the field with the RB’s coach (I can’t remember his name) and I said something to the effect that Faulk looks really quick and fast. He look at me and said and I quote, “You should see him on turf, he is invisible.”

by ct1361 on Mar 17, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions

hahahahaha

great quote

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by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 17, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions