Timing is Everything! Is it time for an Elite #1 WR?
I would love to see Boldin here for many of the same reasons Matty expressed in his article "It's time...time for the Dolphins to get that number one receiver". First, I think he would help Henne in his development. Second, I think he would help the other WRs in their development. Third, I think it would be a fairly short term solution to the #1 WR problem, but long enough to solve the rest of the rebuilding issues, like D, RB, and O-line.
(I know, I know "RB and O-line?!! I thought we were good there!")
Read on, Macduff...
The way I see it (and with the use of 20-20 hindsight), we have been much farther in the hole than I had assumed 2-3 years ago. Not because of one area, but because as we go through this rebuilding project, things continue to change and we have to account for the changes as well as the previous deficiencies.
So... we had no running game when Danny was here, but we had a good O-line and toward the end we built a pretty good defense.
Then we had no QB (since Marino), but we had an O-line and went and mortgaged the immediate future to buy a running game (to go with our Defense and Punting game - courtesy of the Rick and Dave show).
Now it looks like we finally have a QB and a running game, but the O-line fell apart a few years ago and had to be rebuilt, and is still in the process - meaning when we have the same 5 guys play in the same 5 positions for an entire year (barring a guy getting nicked up and missing a game), then we can call our O-line complete. And our D now has major holes.
So by the time we solidify the D and O-lines, we will be looking for a RB again (next year?).
But what is different now, than in the past? What is Bill and Crew doing that gives us hope? Timing!
Timing is everything!
The timing of this thing seems to be coming together nicely!
Now, just follow me for a minute:
The hardest position to fill is QB, but it also tends to be one with unusual longevity if you get the right guy. If Henne is the right guy, barring injury or something weird (like God tells him to quit football), we could be set there for 10 years.
O-line and D are a bunch of guys. Because it is a "bunch of guys", it takes time to get the "right bunch of guys" assembled. You get the right bunch of guys, with staggered contracts, and even if you lose a key piece, you can have his replacement waiting in the wings and not miss a beat as a team. If you do it right, you could build units that last 6-10 years easy (longer if you are really good at staggering the contracts and drafting replacements).
Which brings us to RBs and WRs. These guys tend to have the shortest shelf life - hence you do not go get them first because they will be old and stale before you finish fixing the other parts of the team. Au contraire, you go get those guys the year before you expect for everything else to gel. Too soon, you waste their talents without being playoff ready. Too late, and you risk having to restart with QB, O-line, or D. With me so far?
Okay, so, let's talk about the challenges with getting the right RB, and the right WR, and how that timing adds up.
RUNNING BACK
RB happens to be one of the easiest positions to fill. Before you jump to conclusions about talent levels, let me just state that you do not need a top 3, or even top 5 RB to compete and win IF YOU HAVE ALL OF THE OTHER PIECES IN PLACE. If you have the O-line, and D, and a respectable passing game, you can easily get by with a couple of 3rd round backs with different skills sets. One pound it out, grind it out tough inside runner, and one fast, scatback type. You do NOT need an AP, or CJ, or CJ Jr. They are nice to have, but not a need, so if you can get 'em, great, but add them last after everything else is in place, when you have a luxury pick.
The other thing about RB, is it is one of those rare positions on Offense that you can take a guy right out of the draft and plug him in his rookie season and have him be effective. And you need to, because of their short shelf life - you don't draft a RB expecting to groom him for a couple of years.
Or, you can do like New England and pick up guys on the downside of the careers with one or two useful seasons left (can you say LT or Westbrook?) to use along with a change-of-pace guy, and a mid-round rookie. New England is one of the best teams around at recycling RBs.
BOTTOM LINE: Even with Ricky on the downside, Ronnie and PC coming back from injury, and Hilliard, we are good enough at RB for this year, and take a flier on a lower round draft pick or wait until next season to address. If Hilliard doesn't show signs of being able to take over a role as a feature back, even with Ricky retiring next year and Ronnie becoming a Free Agent, we can pretty easily find a FA guy, or draft a guy with a higher draft pick to step right in and fill the role.
WIDE RECEIVER
We talk about the WRs as a group, like the O-line, but they are only somewhat dependent upon the quality of their peers within the group, unlike Linemen. One "Rock Star" caliber O-lineman cannot make a great O-line, no matter how good he is, if his peers are average. But one "Rock Star" caliber WR can still make a significant positive impact during a game, even when surrounded by peers who are average. All a true #1 WR needs from his team to be very successful, is an effective QB, an O-Line who can protect the QB and open running lanes, and a couple of complementary WRs who will keep the opposing Defense honest on the underneath and slot routes.
I am not going to try to define the qualities of a #1 WR, because that topic has been beat to death, and if you aren't sure what those qualities might be, you can search this site for many articles written on the subject. Let's just say that Wes Welker is a fine example of a complementary WR, because even though he is not a deep threat, if the Defense decides to double cover Moss, Welker will get open all day for 5 and 10 yards per catch.
And again, let's not debate the question of "whether or not the Miami Dolphins need a #1WR... it is well established to most people, fans and pundits alike, that they DO. The real question we should ask is "What are the options for obtaining a #1 WR, and what are the Pros and Cons of each option?".
In my opinion, the only two realistic options for obtaining a solid #1 caliber WR are through a trade or the draft.
Free Agency is rarely a reasonable possibility because these players are rarely allowed to ever reach it. Elite caliber WRs tend to have some measure of a diva quality to them, so it isn't uncommon for them to end up being a headache to the team they are on. But a headache isn't enough to get them cut loose... if they get cut loose because of a personality problem, it is almost always a major problem... either involving legal issues, or severely undermining the authority of the team and coaching staff. Occasionally, one of these guys can shut up and play for a new team, but usually they end up causing the same problems on their new team. Otherwise, almost by definition, if a guy is a Free Agent, he is NOT an elite WR.
Also, just for the sake of taking a couple of talking point off the table, ALL elite WRs are going to be paid... regardless of how they are obtained. So let's not even discuss the contract in the Pros or Cons. And when talking about getting a WR through the draft - since the odds are better of hitting a lottery jackpot than uncovering a late round or undrafted F.A. gem, like Marques Colston, let's keep the discussion centered around the most likely, most predictable, place to find one - the 1st or 2nd rounds.
So let's talk about the draft:
If we draft an expected Elite WR, we will most likely use a 1st round draft pick.
Pros
- Young.
- Known price tag (one 1st round draft pick and contract slotted).
- Potential for a "Super Star".
Cons
- Development time (usually 2-3 seasons).
- Unknown Potential (Risk he may not develop into a #1 WR; bust possible).
- Failure results in further delay of team development.
And compared to acquiring an Elite WR via trade:
You can probably find an Elite, true #1 caliber WR, but you will probably not be able to get a "Franchise Player" (what I call "Super Star"). Teams aren't likely to ever trade Super Stars, and if they did, the trade compensation would crippling to the long term health of acquiring franchise.
Pros
- Known potential. Low risk of failure.
- No development time. Instant impact.
- Able to fit predictably into timeline for the development of a team.
Cons
- Generally older. Less shelf life.
- Higher cost. Most likely more trade compensation due than just a 1st round draft pick.
- Limited development upside. Good to Very Good, but seldom Great. What you see is what you get.
So where does all of this lead? Well, in sammory, the #1WR role is the most difficult and costly to fill. If you try to draft the positions, it could easily take you several seasons to determine whether a draft pick will develop into the role, and it could take you several swings at bat before you hit one out of the park (Heavens to Murgatroyd!, He used a baseball analogy in a football article!). Meaning.... if you expect your team to come together in 2-3 years, you can probably take a chance on drafting a developing a #1 WR.
BUT, if your team is expected to have all of the other pieces in place within a year, then you are better off trading draft picks for a proven guy that can step in and fill the role immediately.
The worst thing you can do to a team is struggle to find that final piece to the puzzle that will make you a contender for the next 5 years; to waste the effort put into developing the other areas of the team, like QB, O-line, and Defense; and end up having to start rebuilding those other parts of the team as is inevitable after 5 yrs or so in today's NFL.
But the caveat here is: The timing must be right! Trying to fill the position through the draft can easily take 3 or 4 years, if you get a bad pick. So if you want to go that route, it should probably be done on the front end of a rebuilding project. And if you are going to try to acquire an Elite WR via trade for top draft picks, DON'T do it UNTIL you have the rest of the team built and ready to go. Otherwise you pay a heavy price to have this guy on your roster when you are not yet ready to challenge for a spot at the top.
And the worst thing is, by trading those picks too early, you pay top dollar for a guy who is just going to depreciate as he ages, and at the same time you slow the development of the other areas of the team that would have benefited from using those pick in the draft.
So, as much as we would ALL like to see the Dolphins acquire a very talented #1 WR, either through the draft or trade, I ask you... are we ready? Is it time to go after an Elite #1 WR?
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By your logic, we're looking at least another year.
I think that’s an accurate assessment. And rec’d as usual with these reasonable, well thought out posts.
1. CJ Spiller RB Clemson 2. Sean Weatherspoon OLB Missouri
3. Jordan Shipley WR Texas 4. Micah Johnson ILB Kentucky
6a. Linval Joseph NT East Carolina 6b. Myron Rolle S Florida State
6c. Andrew Quarless TE Penn State 7a. Vince Oghobasse DT Duke
7b. Sergio Render OG Virginia Tech 5 lines :)
Good Point
Especially regarding Boldin. We are not a receiver away from a Super Bowl, so why mortgage loads of draft picks future for one of them?
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Well Said ..
I would have to say that we are not ready quite yet, I personally think we should wait til next season to draft a WR as the class is much better than this years.
I think this years draft will be focused on replacing our needs on the defensive side of the ball in the front 7 as that is one of our major weakness. If we can add quality starters in the OLB, NT and possibly a ILB spots I will consider this a very successful draft.
Its funny after reading this post how excited I get when think about the Dolphins and how good they will be in about 2 years and the quality of players that will be on this team. We have come so far from the team that we were back in ’07 and now have great quality at QB, LT, DE, CB, SS, K and RB
good job lefty!
This has been on my mind for a while. this past year we scored over 24 points a game which means that the reason we didnt win so many games was bec our d blew the game for us. so the most logical thing to do would be to go all in on defense in the draft and try to fix the holes that we have now on that side of the ball. and next year when there is going to be a ton of talent at the wideout position i say we find our future #1
Head Dude (I think) of the draft Jimmy Graham bandwagon, Co-Vice President of the official Matty I fan club. No more stupid mock drafts please!
by jojo phin fan on Feb 24, 2010 3:05 AM EST via mobile reply actions
we need to spend our first round pick on dez bryant.
people say we are about 2-3 years away from being a contender. well they say it takes about 3 years for a receiver to breakout and become the elite receiver. you say timing is everything well its time to go get him. why didnt you say who you would want?
by Dolphinsrule0505 on Feb 24, 2010 3:55 AM EST reply actions
Dex Bryant has not played competitive high level football for a year....
Its reasonable to assume he’ll take even longer to come around..
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
Crabtree held out for half a year and contrivuted immediately
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by Patssuck456 on Feb 24, 2010 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but i am not a believer that Bryant is as good as Crabtree.
I think we are a year away. I think if we fill in the rest of the holes on D and solidify the O-line, next year we trade for an already established WR. that way we are not risking another Ginn pick. That is what i would like to see happen, although i would still like to see us find a way to get Boldin this year, if we can do it for a player swap… and/or maybe 1 or 2 second day picks.
If we could at least solve two of the three problems at NT, FS, and OLB through F.A., i would be comfortable taking a swing at a WR in the draft.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Great Post, Lefty.
We may very well be a year away but that doesn’t necessarily mean we can’t go ahead and pick up an elite WR this year. We have 9 picks at this point, so if they draft a WR with picks 1 or 2, or make a trade using those picks, there are plenty of opportunities to fill the needs at NT, OLB/ILB, and FS in the draft. These guys, the “Trifecta” tend to find gems later on anyway so to me, this is an offseason where we can “reload” and not have to feel like we’re waiting for another offseason. However, if that elite WR doesn’t become availiable, then I’m all for filling the other needs then we can sit and wait to see who may become avaliable next off season or maybe during this upcoming season.
I like your breakdown of WR’s because that what I believe. We need the elite guy, getting a superstar from another team is unlikely. But we will have a nice team when all this comes together.
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
I never really understood the concept of building a team from scratch, because I have always been a Dolphins fan
and we have always been filling holes and not “full blown rebuilding”, ya know? But I have learned a lot from watching how BP and Co. go about this, and I am impressed. It is methodical and consistent, and while the most difficult piece to find is always QB, WR is a close second. They are both impossible (generally) to find in FA (drew brees =( it still hurts! ), they both have a bust rate higher than a lot of other positions, and they both take time to develop. But the difference is that a QB can be highly effective for 10 years. WRs are usually more like 6 years. So you have to put the QB in place and simultaneously build the rest of the team around him.
The WR you can plug in last, if you trade for him. The only thing i really feel strongly about is that if we are going to go out and get an expensive guy this year, go get VJack. Don’t waste #1 picks on “maybes”.
Otherwise, try to get Boldin, fill the other holes through FA and higher draft picks, and see what develops from our own WRs (Hartline, Pruitt, Johnson, Turner). Then NEXT year, go ahead and trade your #1 and the following year #1 for a sure fire #1 WR. Sure it is two #1 picks, but it’ll get you the guy you need for the next 5 yrs, and make you an instant contender. But you better be sure that is the last piece you need, because you will have to wait 3 drafts for another 1st round pick.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Well, the franchise has suffered tremendously with those "quick fixes" over the years.
Its really all about the QB. You must have a franchise QB to build around, period. You can find all the other pieces through out the draft. Trading away draft picks multiple times will also be detrimental. In my humble opinion, you must build through the draft. Going after high-level free agents and depending on that doesn’t work in the long run for the good of the franchise. The Dolphins have gone after all these free agents and I still have no Superbowl party. The last time the Dolphins were in the Superbowl I was having parties at Chuck E Cheese. :(
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
i agree about quick fixes.
however, i believe you have to (i think i am quoting Nat here) work all three parts of the personnel triangle effectively in today’s NFL… Draft, FA, and Trades.
One trade does not ruin the future, unless you do something insane like trading away all your pick for the next two years. =)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree with you, Lefty.
I just don’t think you can depend on FA like the Dolphins did during the Marino Years. And you Can’t trade away draft picks like in the Wannstedt years. The draft HAS to be the foundation.
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
A quality MIX of draft and FA is the answer. There are far to many draft busts to put all your chickens in that bag.
Henne is the QB of the Miami Dolphins. Good.
Trade Brown? Are you smoking crack?
Hartline will be the Dolphins #2 for years to come. Kid has IT
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!
We dont need a 30+ receiver we need younger, Bowe or Marshall will do fine
by MainePhinFan on Feb 24, 2010 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
He still played his entire final year before he entered the league.
And, he only missed 6 weeks….. he played in week 7.
Bryant, not only missed an entire 12 month season, IF he signs immediately..but you never know if he’ll miss even more time due to a hold out.
Apples and Oranges.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
you think he's gonna hold out?
someone who hasnt played in a while will want to get back in there. we pick him 12 and give him the right amount of money for a 12th overall pick and get him out there. i really dont think this guy would be like the ginn pick at all. hes way better already.
by Dolphinsrule0505 on Feb 27, 2010 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
NICE POST LEFTY
Boldin gives us 2-4 years to groom someone to take his role. Boldin sets the example for anyone we have and anyone we might draft. Boldin will come in with something to prove. If he cost a 3rd and a player like Porter pull the trigger. We have five days to trade Porter Mar. 5th-Mar. 10th. We will recover our third round pick with the trade of another player. The other player I would get is K. Dansby. He’s a proven player that gives Mike Nolan the flexibilty to put him inside or outside. Pay him the money. Anything else in F/A would be great, but, if we get these two guys we fill two of our most glaring needs. There is one other guy I would look at also. Brother Al Davis is having a Fire Sale and I wonder what it would Take to get TE ZACH MILLER. Just a thought.
excellent read, lefty
i would agree with your line of logic here. If the Dolphins wanted to use this year to solidify those other positions and then go strong after an established WR next offseason, that’s fine. But who is to say there will be good players at the WR position available via a trade or free agency?
The other part of this is that we’re now in year 3 of this new era. Hopefully fans remain patient and don’t drive away this regime as they continue their rebuild from 1-15. Year 3 is typically when you see new regimes either sink or swim. But I think this front office needs one more offseason to become serious yearly contenders.
I think I agree with Matty & Lefty on this one.
Timing is everything, while maybe next year is the best for the TIMING of a obtaining a WR, the fact that the talent level available this year, only comes around once in a decade.
I think the fact that there are a few Elite options available (which as Lefty pointed out, almost NEVER happens), that you have to adjust your timing. I think this is the year.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
Perhaps, however
next season is the season of the deep wide receiver class. Perhaps this year is an anomaly in terms of available talent via trade/free agency, but in terms of value and long-term sustainable building, it still isn’t the right time to be doing things that way.
I say draft defense this season. Maybe an O-Lineman (Iupati (sp?) to replace Smiley or something). Definitely linebackers, acquire a nose tackle. Wide receiver can and should absolutely wait, but should become the priority (along with RB) next offseason.
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by Dave.Phuller on Feb 24, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
Wide Receivers in the Draft....
(part of my upcoming Fan Post this weekend)
Lets look at the last decade, as there were some deep WR classes there as well, to get an idea of how they turn out.
This is just the 1st round picks.
2009 (6 Drafted, 3 Playmakers)
Heyward-Bey
Crabtree
Maclin
Harvin
Nicks
Britt
2008 – NO WR’s Drafted in the 1st Round
2007 – (6 Drafted, 2 Playmakers)
Calvin Johnson
Ted Ginn Jr.
Dwayne Bowe
Robert Meachem
Craig Davis
Anthony Gonzalez
2006 (1 Drafted, 1 Playmaker)
Santonio Holmes
2005 (6 Drafted, 2 Playmakers)
Braylon Edwards
Troy Williamson
Mike Williams
Matt Jones
Mark Clayton
Roddy White
2004 (7 Drafted, 3 Playmakers)
Larry Fitzgerald
Roy Williams
Reggie Williams
Lee Evans
Michael Clayton
Michael Jenkins
Rashaun Woods
2003 (3 Drafted, 1 Playmaker)
Charles Rogers
Andre Johnson
Bryant Johnson
2002 (3 Drafted, 0 Playmakers)
Donte Stallworth
Ashley Lelie
Javon Walker
2001 (5 Drafted, 2 Playmakers)
David Terrell
Rod Gardner
Santana Moss
Freddie Mitchell
Reggie Wayne
2000 (5 Drafted, 1 Playmaker)
Peter Warrick
Plaxico Burress
Travis Taylor
Sylvester Morris
R Jay Soward
Total WRs Drafted in 1st Round: 42 Total
Total Playmakers Drafted: 15
Playmaker Percentage: 35.7%
If we are being SUPER Generous, and throw in Hicks, Maclin, Stallworth, Gonzalez, Bryan Johnson…. you still have only a 47.6% rate.
Thats less than half the time you end up with a Playmaker, not necessarily an Elite WR.
If we look at it in terms of a real Top Tier #1 you end up with only 23% of the time.
(Crabtree, CJ, S. Holmes, B. Edwards, R. White, Fitzgerald, R. Williams, A. Johnson, R. Wayne, Plaxico)
and I’m giving Crabtree a pass….
Even in the best draft, the WR’s taken in the first round were only 50 or less hits.
So, Heavy Class of WRs or not, its a major risk drafting WRs.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
Ugh, that is formatted ugly..
Sorry about that.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
It's alright.
I read it and understood it fine.
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by Chupathingy on Feb 24, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
i am on board mate
i am just thinking that we spend the draft picks this year on fixing the other holes, and then blow our wad on a big trade for a proven guy next year when it is really the last piece of the puzzle.
I think the bust rate is terrible for WRs and that if you want to get a guy out of the draft to help your team within 3yrs, you are going to have to plan on picking a guy in the 1st round two years in a row anyway, and then hope one of them is ready to fill the role in year three.
IMO
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
If you could guarantee me that this kind of talent
would be available next year….then maybe.
But, like you mentioned….usually this kind of talent isn’t available…and hasn’t been available for a long time.
The only reason I say this is the time to get a WR, is because there is exceptional talent available. When in the past decade, how many times has that been the case? once, or twice maybe?
When it comes around, you have to pounce.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
Yes and this is what I'm agreeing with.
My point about drafting one next year was an insurance policy for us if we were unable to land a proven guy for a reasonable trade package.
We have too many holes to fill on defense in an exceptionally talented defensive class.
I understand your point, Fr8, about the availability of extraordinary talent at WR. And you have a very valid point. I just don’t think it’s the right time. Look: we’re at pick 12. Probably the best pick we’ll get for years to come. The draft is loaded with defensive studs, and we NEED a load of defensive studs. Yes, we need WR, but that’s something we trade for.
If our pick is 25 next season, which transaction gets us more value? When we trade away the 12th pick in two rounds, or when we deal the 25th pick in two rounds?
Of course, if Marshall is available for just a two, then yes, I’m on board. At the current state of an expected 1st and 3rd (between the IPO and other bidders driving the price up) or more, our 12s don’t warrant the trade just yet.
If we were picking bottom five, absolutely, sure. But that would also most likely signify our only needing that one piece to become perennial contenders (plus depth).
This is why I say no, despite the apparent value in front of us.
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by Dave.Phuller on Feb 24, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
We both agree on the needs....
just different ways or thinking on how to get there.
I think getting the WR, doesn’t eliminate us from still upgrading some good positions on Defense as well. While we can’t address it all, I think we can address it enough to make our D much improved.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
I guess it just comes down to the asking price for Marshall
and, built into that, is the amount of competitors we would have for him.
I think somebody like the Bears, think Martz and Cutler, would be far more willing to part with those picks (if they have enough suitable for the deal) than our FO would. Perhaps that’s just the background motive for my anti-Marshallism: I just do not believe in a million years that we would give up any more than a second our third round pick (or some variation, including players) for a receiver this year with the amount of needs we have.
I also think everybody understates the need at offensive line, as well. Just throwing that in there as an added bonus.
I don’t disagree with you, and you’re right: same perception, different mode of thinking. It’ll just be fun and interesting to see how that plays out.
I’d be willing to make a fun bet on the outcome. Loser has to claim that “he was right, I was wrong” using names and that the other is more inteligent and a better GM.
:)
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by Dave.Phuller on Feb 24, 2010 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
lol...
I’m not crazy enough accept that at all :)
Thats akin to taking Tiger to win a Golf Tournament…sure, you get Tiger….but the other person gets the whole field….
As for Marshall, while he’s my first choice, I’d be equally happy with VJack, or a little less happy (but still very happy) with Boldin….
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
Oh I hear you
and I was mainly kidding, but still competitive enough to accept if you did.
Vincent, Anquan, or Brandon would make me ecstatic. Don’t get me wrong. I just have serious doubts that either of them (except MAYBE Anquan) would ever land here.
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by Dave.Phuller on Feb 24, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
yep, well said dave
solid teams are built around a handful of 1st round draft picks.
What Ditka did for Ricky was a sin, and IMO no player is worth that kind of long term crippling of a team – BUT, QBs and WRs are the only two positions I can see giving away 2 first round pick to get. Simply because if you get unlucky in the draft, you can easily spend more than that trying to find a guy you hope will work out.
But if you are getting ready to trade this year’s and next year’s 1st rounds, you better have all the other pieces in place. i think we need one more 1st round draft pick success (I am counting Long and Davis the only two in recent memory – Ronnie would count, but he is a huge question mark as to his future part in the team) this year before making that kind of commitment.
IMO
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agreed.
2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion
Driver of the "Draft Micah Johnson and 'Reverend' Darryl Sharpton with a 3rd and 4th round pick in 2010" Bandwagon. Prices and participation may vary.
by Dave.Phuller on Feb 24, 2010 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
I don t think you have to have the must draft in the first mentality to get a quality #1 WR,
with a little quick research I came up with these guys;
2nd rounders
V Jack
Sid Rice
A Boldin
S Smith Giants
D Jackson
3rd rounders
S Smith panthers
H Ward
T O
4th rounders
B Marshall
7th rounders
D Driver
undrafted
M Austin
So there are a fair amount of legit #1s to be had outside the 1st round, just sayin.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Feb 24, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
No, certainly not.
talking about getting a WR through the draft – since the odds are better of hitting a lottery jackpot than uncovering a late round or undrafted F.A. gem, like Marques Colston, let’s keep the discussion centered around the most likely, most predictable, place to find one – the 1st or 2nd rounds.
But the point is that once you have everything else in place, the clock is ticking on the window you have to make a run, before you have to start a major overhaul again. On a complete rebuild like this, I give it 5-6 seasons from this season. So we are just talking about the most likely place to get a guy that con come in and contribute quickly, rather than wait 3-4 years to develop.
As you know, I am a huge advocate for the guys we have on the roster today. I think it is entirely possible that Brian Hartline can be better than Miles Austin. And I am excited to see what Pruitt can do in camp. And I have not given up on Turner. Since I expected it would take him a few years to develop, I would be disappointed if I did not see something from him this year, but I don’t yet consider him a failure.
Which is partially why I would like to see what we have this year before going to crazy giving away picks.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm also not saying it's necessary to go first-round on WR
to get a great one. I’m agreeing with the idea that the first two rounds tend to breed more talent, without any stats to back that up. Just more reasonable. If someone can disprove that, I’d love to see it.
As far as WRs go, I agree with Lefty. We have receivers to look at, no need to go crazy with high draft picks this year at the position. Next year, if everything else is hooked up, we should go WR, whether through trade or our very first pick.
2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion
Driver of the "Draft Micah Johnson and 'Reverend' Darryl Sharpton with a 3rd and 4th round pick in 2010" Bandwagon. Prices and participation may vary.
by Dave.Phuller on Feb 24, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
wait fr8
i said qualified WR Free Agents almost never happen. Trades for qualified #1 WRs can usually be done anytime, for the right price. Just not usually for franchise players, neither of whom I consider Jackson or Marshall to be, although VJack is closer and has more potential.
i wouldn’t do it this year, but next year I could see us trading our 1st and the 2012 1st picks for a #1 guy. After we solidified the other areas of the team this year, and hopefully knew what the new CBA was going to look like.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Gotcha.....I can agree with that assessment.
I’d still want the WR this year though lol.
Call me greedy.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
LOL
So do I brutha! Seriously, so do I. It’s just that after being in this drought for so long (I met all the ’72 Fins when the won the SB), i really want to see them do this thing right so that we can win it all, and not just get close every year.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
matty denile is not just a river in egypt
by wild zion beaver on Feb 24, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
homanus nocturner bro!!!!
did your vibrator break or did you just wake up early!!!!!!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 24, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
yep yep.. i was also thinking about the availability
it is true, that you don’t know who might be trade bait in coming seasons, but recently (past 5-6 yrs) it seems like somebody good is always on the block. Like I said, FA is not generally where you are gonna find those guys anyway… at least not the guys you want. And no team is going to trade their franchise player (Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson). But you can usually work a deal for the tier 2 type guys (Miles Austin, Pierre Garcon) that can fill the role of #1 WR on a well rounded team. Especially with the other talent we have at WR. Don’t forget that we have two excellent slot guys in Bess and Camarillo (we probably won’t keep both down the road), and Hartline showed some great things for a rookie. He just got better and better throughout the year, and I think he will be a legitimate #2.
But I DO think we would have more of a chance in hitting that “home run” on a 1st round WR in next year’s draft, if we were going to go that way.
I don’t worry too much about this regime’s stability. Any fans who has been around for a while was used to a winning record, and being in the hunt for decades, and then we were all totally shell shocked by the 4-12 season (I thought that was as bad as it was ever going to get) and THEN the 1-15 season! I am pretty sure that this team will be competitive for the next couple of season regardless of the moves made and if other fans feel like I do, that is good enough for me over the short term. As long as I don’t have to endure another year of being compared to teams like the Bungles, or called Tampa Bay South!
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with you lefty.......in an earlier post i commented on waiting until next year to draft a wide receiver........and our needs in other places better demand the first round pick and high price tags....
of course, my feelings wouldn’t be hurt if we picked up a home run hitter this year……….
i still think that defense wins championships and although last years super bowl participants weren’t rated high…..inevitably it was a great defensive play by a very good defensive player that sealed the deal………..
with that being said i wouldn’t be against picking up a fading veteran wideout this year to help the other receivers on this team continue to develop………
in my opinion…..picking up boldin (for a third round pick or camarillo trade or something like that) and then drafting a high round receiver next year…………..
Just one mans opinion...
I like your thinkin...
I think we are 2 seasons away from serious Super Bowl contention, but, that being said, I think we go deep into playoffs next year if we grab Boldin or any other #1 WR through free agency or trade. We get that guy in here to help groom our young guys along with anyone that might be drafted. Hartline is gonna be a solid #2 for years to come, when our #1 is doubled he’ll get open for the short reception, and if he can break a tackle or two, turn it into a long play. I get more and more pumped for next season every day, and cannot wait until the draft to see what the trifecta pulls outta their hat.
Self proclaimed driver of the Brian Hartline Bandwagon
my thoughts exactly!
I would expect us to be in playoff contention this year, with the right moves on D, and if we get Boldin, I think we are contenders. But i think we are one more season away from serious SB contention. Also agree about Hartline. I think he may even better better than that. =)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
Very good post Lefty,
but I could counter a couple things here, the whole “we can get a RB anywhere” mentality is a fools paradise, yea sure you can get a top flight RB in the mid rounds but that doesn’t mean your going to, lol, no one knows which of these guys is going to be that one.
So to put it more accurately you can say there will be top flight RBs had a different points in the draft, but not that you can go out and get a TF RB anywhere in the draft, there is a big difference, if TF RBs were that easy to find, every team would have multiple ones, when many team cannot get one, just sayin.
Also as you stated the SB can be won without a TF RB, but the same is also true for a TF WR, as you said if all the other pieces are in place, heck it’s even true of QBs, you don’t need a TF QB if all else is in place, again, just sayin.
Fged all the way, quality post bro.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
True...
there’s no guarantee at any position, be it RB or otherwise.
However, the bust rate for highly drafted WR’s actually surpasses that of even QB’s. And we all know what a huge gamble it is to draft a QB high.
So no doubt there’s always risk, but in drafting a RB, you are far less likely to be disappointed.
As far as needing top flight RB’s or QB’s or WR’s, yeah it all depends. We shouldn’t have to guess too much though as some of the pieces are already in place. For instance, barring some incredibly unforeseen circumstances, Chad Henne will be the fins QB both now and in the future. Do we perceive him to be (or see him as capable of being…), a top flight QB? an above average guy? average?
What about our defense, does it have the makings of a top flight unit?
I think we can start to see the foundations of this team and project what kind of pieces are missing in the puzzle.
Wow Nat! Awesome reply!
you just saved me a buncha typing! =)
All i will add about RBs: Most teams today actually have a quality #1 RB. Quite a few teams actually DO have two guys that could fill the role (Stewart/Williams, AP/Taylor, Thomas/Bell, Hightower/Wells, etc.)
In the 80s, the frustration for us Fin fans was that we could not get the running game to complement Danny’s passing game.
But starting in the 90s, schools seemed to start producing more quality backs. I am not sure why, but as Nat said, it is much easier today to find a 1st or 2nd round guy that can step in and produce. If I had to guess, it is because of the emphasis on building O-lines, and even an average back can get the job done behind a solid, run blocking line.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think we're 2-3 years away so I say get Boldin now
,for the reasons you stated,and draft Dez Bryant this year because when I watch him I think Andre Johnson..just my opinion but thats what I see.
by firedanhenningnow on Feb 24, 2010 9:53 AM EST reply actions
Rec from me Mr. Lefty-who-is-so-wise.....mostly.
I completely agree with you regarding Running Backs, as do most NFL personnel men. Running backs are simply the easiest cog to replace. Take any RB, stick him in a formation, and run the ball. The only real thing they need to learn is blitz pickups….. (of course we’re looking at this without looking at talent levels)
WR’s need to learn routes, how to block on some routes, a much bigger playbook etc. So, if we take another 2-3 years to develop a WR….again. And that player doesn’t develop into a true #1….again…. then we’re right back where we are yet, only 2-3 years older, and then starting to replace a bunch of other cogs in the machine. Thats why this IS the time.
With the exception of NT, the rest of the defensive holes are fairly easy to replace via the draft and/or free agency. Hell New England won 2 superbowls by using older veteran LB’s, and drafting young on the D-Line consistently…
I’m sure we are look at the same picture on the wall…. we just see it a little different.
Team needs and timing is kinda like looking at the Mona Lisa.
Great post Lefty!
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
Alright Lefty, A Couple Of Points
You and some others think that there is this “timing” needed to “rebuild” that simply doesn’t exist. All teams right have holes to fill every year. Granted, some more than others, but holes just the same. All teams are working in the same parameters when it comes to salary cap restrictions (Miami had the 2nd highest payroll in ’09, is that “rebuilding”?). There are no “perfectly built teams” in the NFL anymore, not with the salary cap (even though ’10 will be an uncapped year, after a new CBA is signed the cap will be back in place). The really good teams identify the holes that they have, adjust to minimize it, then get back to winning games.
By your logic, in another 2 or 3 years (‘11 & ’12), when the Phins will be ready to contend, there will be new holes in the roster that need to be filled. Here is just a sample of what will need to be filled: RB (Ricky & Ronnie), RT (Carey), LG (Smiley), C (Grove), SS (Bell), ILB (Crowder). All of those positions are filled pretty well right now, but contracts will be up, players will be older, and upgrades will be needed. So will the team be any closer in 2 or 3 years to acquire that #1 WR? Even when 2 or 3 positions in the OL and the RB is position isn’t “settled”?
My opinion is that this team (with its current roster plus a couple of tweeks from trades, the draft and FA) can win right now. Look at the AFC Championship Game and the Super Bowl this year. The Phins stayed toe to toe with Indy (arguably should have won) and beat the NYJ twice. The Phins stayed toe to toe with NO (arguably should have won – Damn TO from Sparano prior to half!). That shows how close they are to being really, really good.
As I have stated (http://www.thephinsider.com/2010/2/20/1319518/the-case-for-offense-this-offseason), Mike Nolan makes the defense better. On offense, the Phins are 1 or 2 players away from taking it to the next level. Combine those two things, with the fact of how well this team played against top competition in ‘09, and there is no reason not to think this team can’t play for a championship in ’10!
Nice Write Up! I don’t agree, but you knew that! Rec’d!
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
Well written, solid points.
"michael, I did nothing,...... I did absolutely nothing,.... and it was everything I thought it could be" -Peter Gibbons-
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper and proud recipient of the Matty JLRBotY award 2010
BandWaken Got me this Matty BLB award 2010
by uncle finster on Feb 24, 2010 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
super bowls are about luck
If 2008 taught us anything is that luck plays a huge part in success or failure of any team.
2008 dolphins had few injuries, very low turnovers and the ball bounced their way every time. Result a 1-15 team has a 11-5 year. Same year the nearly invincible patriots lose Brady and by the time Castle improves his play they miss the playoffs with an 11-5 record. Do you know of any team that wanted to face them in the playoffs?
So we need to build our team for the long run but also try to make a run at the super bowl every year.
It is so hard to say when a team will contend or not...
because of the many, many underlying assumptions. An injury to even one player can derail those plans. Conversely, a player surpassing expectations at a key position (hint hint: QB) can speed things up significantly.
I tend to think that Henne is the key piece when we talk about if and/or when the fins will be a serious contender. If he becomes a top 10, maybe even top 15 QB in this league, then we’ll be in the playoff mix and possibly more.
I agree completely Nat
That being said, there is no reason IMO that the Phins as currently constructed can’t compete for Championships year in and year out. They are just a couple of pieces away from completing the “core” of the team with good players. On offense: QB, LT, RB. What’s missing is WR. On defense: DE’s (Starks & Langford), OLB (Wake), CB’s (Davis & Smith), SS (Bell), ILB (Crowder). That is a pretty good core of defensive players. With Nolan as the D-Coordinator that’s good enough (I’m predicting top 12 defense next year).
But that missing piece on offense, WR, is a huge hole. Really good teams realize how importatnt that position has become. That’s why the Jets got Edwards. They realized that they were a good team that was missing explosive playmaking at the WR position. Did it pan out? Debatable (he did catch a huge TD against the Colts in the Championship Game). But I give the Jets credit for trying and it got them close to a Super Bowl.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
You quote Macbeth, but didn't catch my reference in my post? =)
ct, you are saying almost the same thing i said.
The way I see it (and with the use of 20-20 hindsight), we have been much farther in the hole than I had assumed 2-3 years ago. Not because of one area, but because as we go through this rebuilding project, things continue to change and we have to account for the changes as well as the previous deficiencies.
My point: All teams have holes to fill. It is the nature of the business – accounting for the yearly changes as contracts expire, players retire, or injuries or legal issue cause losses. However teams that are not rebuilding are just filling in the gaps every year to stay competitive. that is the point we want to get to. We are not there.
Rebuilding essentially means you have no starters. It means that you don’t even have a starting QB. How many players have we replaced on the roster in the last two years? 90%? We had an all new secondary last year, except Bell. All new lines on both sides of the ball over the past two seasons, except Carey. All new WRs, except Cammy (I refuse to count Ginn for anything). and now it looks like we are getting ready to churn the LBs. So, yes, rebuilding exists, and it is very different from handling the normal depletion from an already solid team.
timing doesn’t exist? Of course it does. Because, if for NO OTHER reason, a QB has an effective shelf life. And most often teams struggle a bit to replace a franchise QB when he leaves the game. so let’s say it’s 10 years, just to pick a number to work with. Sometime during those 10 yrs, you need to have all of the other pieces come together at the same time. Easy huh? But Henne is already going into his 3rd season. So now we have 7 yrs left, and we still don’t really have a franchise player (WR, RB, NT, whatever) on offense or defense. You know, a consistent playmaker! We have some candidates, but no one you can anoint with the title today.
So let’s say we draft a WR this offseason. And assume he takes 2 years to develop. And let’s say that in the meantime we have solved the issues with the O-line, RB, and D. We have a window of about 5 yrs in which the team will be relatively stable before we have to make another QB transition. 5yrs in which (while we are still filling roster vacancies due to normal attrition) we can realistically compete for a title. And that assumes no catastrophic losses to key personnel.
And guess what? Sometime during that time period we are going to have to deal with contracts of guys like Jake Long that were put in place during the massive overhaul and are now expiring. And what about coaching turnover? Henning will be gone at some point. What happens then? New system? New learning curve?
The NFL is designed today to prevent the dynasties of the 70s and 80s. There are short windows in which a team can be fairly stable in terms of personnel. Once a team is established and stable, the good Front Office men are able to use the draft to find replacements a year or two before they will be needed, and keep things rolling along. But the key positions of QB, WR, RB, LT, CB, NT, ILB can demand big money in Free Agency, so, with the exception of QB, the guys that are most likely to be the playmakers that your team is built around are likely to leave at the end of their 4, 5, or 6, year contracts.
The trick is not just to manage the salary cap, but to stagger the length of the contracts and draft well in the first and second rounds to replace the guys leaving. And i don’t want to hear about “hidden gems” in later rounds – they happen, but the vast majority of the franchise type players are first day picks. It doesn’t take many misses in replenishing a team through the draft to take a team from perennial powerhouse to average.
So there absolutely is a window, and timing it important. We are almost to the point that we can start drafting future replacements, but we have to solve the current major deficiencies first, and most of those are on defense.
By the way, you keep stating:
Mike Nolan makes the defense better.
While I think (and hope) this will be true, it is entirely supposition at this point. Not fact.
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I saw "Macduff", I just didn't realize you meant me! LOL!
That is my favorite line in all literature. I used to have the full verse memorized, but I am getting older and my memory sucks now. I think it applies to sports today though, especially trash talkers like Crowder and Porter. “A tale told by an IDIOT, full of sound and fury, signifing NOTHING!” Tell me that’s not Crowder! :)
All the reasons that you state above for why there aren’t 70’s and 80’s style dynasties nowadays are the exact reasons why, IMO, there is no such thing as rebuilding anymore. The rules in the NFL allow bad teams to get good very quickly, in many cases one offseason. The salary cap, minimum salary floor, FA, rewarding poor teams with higher draft picks, etc allow poor teams to get better and make good teams shed their talent, making them worse. It evens out the talent pool.
Because of the even talent pool it is my belief that year in, year out there are 4 or 5 teams (not the same teams every year) more talented than the rest of the league. There are 6 or 7 teams with worse talent. The 20 some odd other teams are all essentially equal in talent. A combination of breaks (luck if you will), coaching, players exceeding expectations, etc. determine who makes the playoffs and who doesn’t. The Phins IMO are in the upper echelon of the 20 some odd teams right now and poised, with an addition of 1 or 2 players, to get into the more talented group of 4 or 5.
On offense, they finally have their QB. But he has no weapons around him. Look at the last 6 teams to play in a Super Bowl: Ind, NO, Pit, Ari, NYG, and NE. If you assume that the QB is the most important position, which I think we both do, who was the next most important player for those 6 teams? It wasn’t a RB or a LT or a TE, it was a WR (Wayne, Colston, Holmes, Fitzgerald, Burress, Moss). What this tells me is that QB and WR are the most important positions on offense right now. Tell me who the RB’s were on those teams? I could name them, just like you, but they weren’t difference makers. They were just guys. It is the same with LT (I couldn’t name all of them) and the OL in general.
One of the other common elements of those Super Bowl teams was where the money was spent. It was spent on QB’s and guys who catch the ball, mostly WR’s (Shockey and Clark should be included in that mix). Where it isn’t spent was on RB’s and the OL. Some players on the OL on some of those teams have a pretty good salary, but nothing like the Phins OL. Those teams chose to pay the playmakers and get by with eveyone else because they made the determination that those are the most important players, and they have been proven right.
So when you talk about managing the Salary Cap, that is what you should mean. You pay the key playmakers: QB, WR, Pass Rushing DE / OLB, FS. Other positions could move into that area: LT, CB, RB. Every other position are just guys you need to fill out your team. Get the best ones that you can, just don’t overpay them. The really good teams in today’s NFL understand that.
This is long enough for now. We can debate the qualities of Mike Nolan later. But this has been a very good debate. I won, but you know that already. LOL.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
""A tale told by an IDIOT, full of sound and fury, signifing NOTHING!" Tell me that’s not Crowder! :)"
or porter! =)
And a bit of trivia, the line in Macbeth is actually “Lay on, Macduff!” as in “come and get it biatch!”. They are in sword fight. But it somehow got bastardized into the common phrase “Lead on Macduff”, meaning “Go ahead, I’m right behind you.”
weird huh?
and i’m glad you think you won…. it does my heart good to encourage your self confidence and self esteem…. and provide hope!
kinda like in the movies when the guy is mortally wounded; is missing the lower half of his body from a land mine, but he can’t lift his head to see it; and his buddy is telling him, “it’s just a flesh wound, you’ll be okay”… you know he ain’t gonna make it, but you feel good that he at least doesn’t realize the truth until the very end.
of course, if at any time he actually would pick his head up and look around, the fallacy of his belief would be self evident, and he would be faced with the cold, hard truth.
But yeah, ct, you won buddy! Good job!
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Nicely Played Lefty! =)
So you are saying I’m the Black Knight in “Monty Python And The Holy Grail”. I can live with that. LOL.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
i've seen that movie like 25 times!
i actually saw it in theaters when it first came out. cracks me up!
Black Knight: ‘Tis but a scratch!
King Arthur: A scratch? Your arm’s off!
Black Knight: No, it isn’t!
King Arthur: Well, what’s that then? (pointing at the arm on the ground)
Black Knight: I’ve had worse.
LOL!
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 24, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
It's one of my all time favorites! Pure Genius! The best of the Python films!
I even have my kids liking it. Thier favorite line (in a bad French accent): “I fart in your general direction!” Genius! LOL.
Let's get offensive this offseason!
"It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." MACBETH
I soiled my armor I was so scared....
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
yer mother was a hamster, and yer father smelt of elderberries
now go away or i shall taunt you a second time.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 25, 2010 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
She has huge.........tracts of land.
If this post contains no substance, just assume that my answer is Brandon Marshall. Pay the 1st and 3rd, get the proven guy, and don't worry about that position for the next decade.
The more I think about it,
the more I see a trade down and iupati as the right move for our team. This guy didnt allow for a singular sack. And it could possibly mean a healthy season under center. Another benifit,is that unloading smiley lowers the cost our oline is putting on us,which to me,seems a burden too great for a team in rebuild mode.
Imagine,from Long,Iupati,and Grove,one sick nightmare for defensive coordinators. And with guys like Boldin available at wr,and Dansby at ILB,not to mention,Rolle at FS. Even Sharper is able to test the waters of free agency,and working our own trades i.e Smiley and Thiggy to buffalo for a second rounder,and a few other moves,we could see ourselves going deep in the playoffs this year
by dolphinfan4lyfe on Feb 24, 2010 12:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
awesome stuff lefty rec'd
i tried to read this the other day but it was so damn long! i finally got time to read the whole thing. I think your insight into what positions go in what order during the rebuild process is outstanding.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2010
Winner of 2 "Matty's"
When i die, i want to be reincarnated as OFF4L.
"- Lousaka Monster only masturbates to pictures of The Lousaka Monster." --- Rzayo24
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
yeah, i know it was long, and wasn't expecting a lot of folks would actually wade all the way through it
but it said what i wanted it to say, so i left it the way it was. =)
Thx man!
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 27, 2010 3:43 AM EST up reply actions
lefty i should of flew, this by u right off. JPFoschi TE there not even resignin him to the leauge minimun
uno we might be able to save a draft pick, if we get this kid this could help heene out in the clutch. He had more reception’s then any TE on the Bengals team(27). whew there gonna let him, hit the open market. just so they dont have to pay the leauge minimum which is bulsh!t. FO need’s to take a look at this!!!!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 26, 2010 10:09 PM EST reply actions
i honestly didn't see him play last year, so i don't know anything about him
but i think they might just look at Ben Watson or even David Martin if they want to bring in a pass catcher at the position. Fasano is good, but he was better when Martin played on the other end of the formation, IMO
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Feb 27, 2010 3:42 AM EST up reply actions
I really only saw him brefly as the high-light real on the sports showed highlight's of my franc. WR. ocho cinco. but he (jpfoschi) made sum nice chatches.
imean to say that they (cinn.), are gonna “resign” this guy. just not to what he is worth they are trying to save there money. uno i’m not totaly sure what there offer will be, but i no the million is what should be offerd. just saying that a TE. if addresed in this draft could be done earlyer. & saying he is proven commodaty!
by wild zion beaver on Feb 27, 2010 12:27 PM EST up reply actions

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