Giving the FO there credit and Pennington please stay ...
by markus_13 on Nov 15, 2010 3:10 PM EST
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PrintMany times I have read how the FO has made mistakes by either drafting players or letting certain players go i.e Pat White and Matt Roth to name a few and what a terriible job they have done but on a day after a win where we had three QB's come in the game to win, they have cleary earned there pay cheque.
When Jeff Ireland became the GM the first thing he said was that the QB position needed to be upgraded and it has since transfromed from Trent Green, John Beck and Cleo Lemon to Chad Henne, Chad Pennington and Tyler Thigpen in just three seasons. With both Chads beign knocked out for a undeterminded amount of time I still remain optimistic about what this team can accomplish with Thigpen at QB moving forward for this season. I doubt anyone was saying that when Lemon was getting the starts back in '07.
With Penningtons playing career looks to be over I am also hoping that come next season he will stay on our staff as a QB coach and David Lee will be promoted to the Offinsive Co-ordinator position. He is highly respected by his teammates, coaches and all fans and I would love for him to stay and help this team like I know he is capable of.
The depth has become one of our strenghts with players like Thigpen, Soliai and Reshad Jones coming in and make big contributions when asked. The real test will be this Thursday but I for one am optimistic and not worried ... LETS GO DOLPHINS!!!!
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When Jeff Ireland became the GM the first thing he said was that the QB position needed to be upgraded and it has since transfromed from Trent Green, John Beck and Cleo Lemon to Chad Henne, Chad Pennington and Tyler Thigpen in just three seasons.
Hmmm, a few problems….Pennington is 34, soon to be 35, has absolutely no durability, not to mention incredibly limited physically when he does manage to stay on the field. Henne? Well, he just got benched for the aforementioned physically-limited, health-challenged QB. Thigpen? I hope, like most, that he shows himself to be up for the job, but he’s also been in the league several years now and shown some clear deficiencies in his game (namely accuracy!).
With Penningtons playing career looks to be over I am also hoping that come next season he will stay on our staff as a QB coach and David Lee will be promoted to the Offinsive Co-ordinator position. He is highly respected by his teammates, coaches and all fans and I would love for him to stay and help this team like I know he is capable of.
This is a more subtle point because we can’t conclusively say that David Lee would be a good coordinator. Plenty of highly respected, likeable guys wo have become coordinators (or head coaches) and failed. I’m not saying Lee would fail, but I don’t think we can say he would succeed either. What we do know is that he did a good job in his last go as OC although in fairness, that was for the Razorbacks and not in the NFL.
As far as questioning the FO, I think you ought to look at it from a broader angle. More specifically, 3 years into the Ireland/TS/BP regime….how close is this team to being a serious contender?
I’ll give you a good benchmark….while we were drowning under (s)cam-cameron and going 1-15, the falcons were busy in their own nightmare, going 4-12 with the Petrino debacle as well as Vick being put in stripes (aka, jail!).
After that season, the falcons hired Thomas Dimitroff as GM and he brought in Mike SMith as HC. Now 3 years later, the Falcons are the best team in the NFC and one of the top 3 in the entire NFL. In those three years, they brought in via draft or FA…..a top QB, a good RB, several quality RB’s, a HOF TE, and bolstered their defense enough to be an excellent team and genuine SB contender.
So by that measure, how good has this FO done? Bad? Good? Alright?
by Natalya on Nov 15, 2010 4:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nats - and who has this FO brought in FA/draft?
A top 5 (maybe top 3) WR (maybe HOFer)
A top 5 LB (maybe HOFer)
The #2 kicker in the NFL (UDFA if I recall correctly)
A shutdown CB (who if he continues to develop & play like he has – HOF could be in his future too)
According to the first on this list – a top 3 slot WR – also an UDFA
An LT who is ranked #1 in NFL – been to 2 Pro Bowls in his first 2 years
A QB that came from our hated enemy to lead us to post-season after 2007
A FB that should be ranked at the top of the NFL, if he is not and is $ on 3rd/4th & short
A DE/NT that is awesome in his own right
A LB who is proving why he he was DPOY 2 years in a row in CFL
Pretty decent list if I do say so myself. So, I would rate that they have done good. This list does not include Odrick, Jerry, Misi (who could be DROY, which would insert him into the list above) Clemmons, R Jones, Edds, & Incognito – some of whom have no played due to injury/illness or have not played enough to be judged.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Sure PT, the individual pieces are there...but collectively which is how SB's are won...
we are 5-4, very likely to miss the playoffs and increasingly look like a team with no answer at QB. This is after 3 years of “building” and the HC making an obvious “win now” move by starting the 2-snap man Pennington.
and, in the immortal words of Gomer Pyle, USMC - Surprise, Surprise, Surprise
we won without CP10!
My point is that you cannot compare Phins & Falcons like this. Have they had the injuries like we have had for 2 years now? Have they at least played in the SB? Are they playing as a better team? How much better would our record be if we had not had the injuries for the last 2 years?
I am not yet convinced that it was a win now. I saw somewhere here that Sparano alluded to wanting to find out if it was Henne or Henning. I do not think that can be done with Henne playing. Except that maybe we did find out. Yesterdays game plan was for CP10. Henne did fine, thank you very much, with CP10’s playbook.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Falcons
top 3 team in the NFL, guess i have to watch more of their games. I was under the impression they would be an avg team if they were in the AFC. They do have some pretty good players on their team with White, Gonzales and Ryan isnt playing too shabbily.
"I likem me some UDFAs"
You should watch Atlanta...
because they just took care of Baltimore yesterday, the team that stuffed us the week before.
And the Jest barely beat the Browns, who stuffed the Pats last week.
And the Pats whooped the Steelers, who barely beat the Phins.
On any Sunday . . .
Your logic on the Falcons is flawed by basing it on their W over Ravens.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
It isn't a one game conclusion PT...
the Falcons are a team with the pieces in place for a serious run. How is that not obvious?
Meanwhile, our supposed franchise QB got yanked by the coaches, there’s no obvious candidate to be the long-term guy here, we are likely to miss the playoffs, maybe a whole coaching overhaul next year…..
this isn’t a bad team by any stretch, but it also doesn’t look like a serious contender either. It looks like a team that can play well in stretches, make some plays, but more often than not, fails to put together wins win most needed.
Further...I think it is too easy to say, well the FO has done A-OK because we were 1-15...
going back to 2007, you could say, yeah, they’ve done better than say dallas, a team that was 13-3 back then and now 2-7. But I’d also say they haven’t done as well as Atlanta in building a serious contender.
It is easy, and I take your point here,
but it shouldn’t be dismissed to easily either. There are plenty of examples of teams not building so quickly, and less of teams, maybe like Atlanta, as you say, who are serious contenders after two and a half seasons.
Atanta
doesnt have NE or Jets in there division and throw in teams like Pitt, Indy, Ravens, Chargers in the conference and they havent won anything yet either, they also didnt come from a 1-15 team 3 yrs ago but they have done a good job, just like our FO has done……..
Also the Falcons play in NFC
this cannot be stated enough. If you put Miami in the NFC South and Atlanta in the AFC East we would be dominating the NFC and the Falcons would be about a .500 team right now. Sound familiar?
Always late to the party
Eh
Tampa and NO aren’t any kind of pushovers
Here's to Luck and Harbaugh bringing their talents to South Beach in 2011.
I think we would be a top 3-4 team in the NFC no one is CLEARLY better than Miami
In the AFC it’s very crowded at the top: NYJ, Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Colts
Then you have teams just below those at the top: Houston, Tennessee, Miami, Oakland (can’t believe I typed that) KC, (ditto) and San Diego
Where in the NFC you have (at the top): Green Bay, New Orleans and maybe NYG (i think they turn the ball over WAY too much)
Just below: Atlanta, Tampa, and Philadelphia
What I’m trying to say is: To be a “Super bowl contender” you have to make the playoffs first. It’s MUCH easier to do that in the NFC than the AFC.
Always late to the party
by Skips OCD on Nov 15, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is an oft overlooked factor
rec’d btw – well said
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Tampa, Really??
I’ll give you the Saints but Tampa is feasting on bad teams. WE are better than Tampa.
Miami Dolphin fan since 1971. Ricky Williams for President. Still the only UNDEFEATED team EVER!
Yet to make the playoffs though, so lots of conjecture.
I’d say both teams have progressed nicely.
Um, the falcons have made the playoffs in 2008...
and would be the top seed in the NFC if the season ended today while we’d be discussing the 2011 draft :-(
My mistake.
I still maintain that both teams have progressed nicely.
Do you not think we look pretty set for the future?
Not a leading question, it’s genuine and I don’t want to open any more worm cans.
opening worm cans is fun, don't you think SD?
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Set for the future?
ok let’s start with this one detail….
And now for your miami dolphins, starting at Quarterback…………………..“_________________”
Ah, at risk of you thinking that I'm just being difficult....
I think I simply take a more optimistic view here. I maintain that we don’t have a (currently) quality QB, and yet, through a tough schedule we are 5-4 and a possible for the playoffs(I won’t yet concede otherwise), and all with low to average quarterbacking.
I like Henne and would be happy for him to have another shot, and Thigpen may do for now, but I consider him a bit wild.
I’d love for us to unearth a great QB, but currently we have a lot of talent in many other places, and we may have to settle for the dreaded game manager.
i'd take Henne over 50%
of the QBs out there. Plus to win one SB you dont have to have a HOF’er at that position. It’s what surrounding him that will get you to the promised land.
"I likem me some UDFAs"
Actually you do
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/17307/why-mark-sanchez-is-jets-biggest-issue
Key line from the article:
But quarterbacks who rank in the top 10 in passer rating have more than three times the chance of reaching the Super Bowl.
The idea that you don’t need a top QB is the reason we are where we are today. You ABSOLUTELY need a good QB, not just an average one.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
A little bit misleading, given that teams like to build around such a QB
but you can still win it all without one, if you just don’t have a great QB.
You can win without one
but its much tougher and less frequent. I’d rather have us attempt to get a great QB than settling for average ones that we “hope” can win.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
I'm just tired of getting some second stringer or something like that
I have hope for Thigpen. But if he can’t do it and Henne can’t do it, then I want us to go after a 1st round blue chip prospect.
aka "The Duke"
Proponent of I-AA Football
Driving the Roberto Wallace Bandwagon
Unofficial Phinsider DJ
If there is one....
but if we get one, they come in to a great team.
Cam Newton?
Miami Dolphin fan since 1971. Ricky Williams for President. Still the only UNDEFEATED team EVER!
A draw eh?
Would you like to wager on which team will be playing in the postseason in a few weeks?
How anyone thinks the dolphins are further along in terms of being a real contender, than Atlanta is baffling….
I think he said it is a draw, not that Phins are further along than Falcons. Also, see my comments above about injuries for the last 2 years.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
FWIW....
it isn’t to say the FO has done a bad job, because they haven’t, yet I’m not sure you can say they’ve done a great job either. 3 years into the “plan” we appear no closer to an answer at QB than in 2008. Like it or not, as most of us know, a good QB has become a near requirement to be a SB contender. And while they, the FO, have improved the supporting cast, we still have a big ? at QB which is part of the reason we sit in our current situation.
Have the Jest found their Sanchise? I think he is still a big ? too.
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
I commented on the jets...
Henne is still, despite Sparano’s knee-jerk hook of the kid, better than Sanchez. The jets have been better than Miami largely because of having more talent around Sanchez to compensate for his blunders. And yet, they’ll go only as far as they can cover for Sanchez’s mistakes.
Atlanta's schedule is not as hard as our schedule.
Also we have a tougher division.
"Football is not a game but a religion, a metaphysical island of fundamental truth in a highly verbalized, disguised society, a throwback of 30,000 generations of anthropological time." Arnold Mandell
On an given Sunday . . .
A factor you can ill afford to overlook.
GB 9 – NYJ 0
Phins beat GB
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
that is only 1 of 2 of their wins
against quality teams in my opinion. Of course our wins arent against the best but our losses are against the best teams in the AFC.
"I likem me some UDFAs"
They lost to Pitt w/o Big Ben and we beat Pitt
almost!
Miami Dolphin fan since 1971. Ricky Williams for President. Still the only UNDEFEATED team EVER!
Miami vs Atlanta 10 games series
Might give Atlanta 6-4 edge. Only because they have a better QB and probably a better HC. If both teams were 100% healthy, a big if I know, I think we would go toe to toe w/them. Maybe play them .500 I think Atl play GB in two weeks. See how that one goes.
Miami Dolphin fan since 1971. Ricky Williams for President. Still the only UNDEFEATED team EVER!
Atlanta is
a good football team, if i had to pick a team that i felt was the best I would go with Atlanta right now, they have better QB, WR, and RB
man of glass even in NY he allway's was getting hurt start the year out good get hope's up the breakthem like glass!!!
wopper "the king" computer
We often look rite past the positive's cuz the negative's-r-so hard they dominate!
by wild zion beaver on Nov 16, 2010 11:34 PM EST reply actions
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