Is Jason Taylor a Hall of Famer?
The return of Jason Taylor to the Dolphins back in May really got me thinking. Among my thoughts was Taylor's Hall of Fame credentials. Surely you can make a case that Jason is already a Hall of Famer. However, you can also make a case that Taylor is not a Hall of Famer.
What? I must be crazy, right?
Well I'm not - at least, not any more crazy than usual. So what I wanted to do today is look at both arguments and then let you all decide if Taylor should be elected into the Hall of Fame.
The case for Taylor
Jason enters the 2009 season ranked 14th all-time in sacks with 120.5 to his credit. He led the league with 18.5 back in 2002 - which also is the 12th highest single-season total in NFL history. Taylor is a 6 time Pro-Bowler and a 3 time first-team All-Pro. His eight career touchdowns are the most ever by a defensive lineman and his five career fumble recoveries returned for a touchdown are the most ever by any player. He also won the 2006 Defensive Player of the Year award and the 2007 Walter Payton Man of the Year award.
The easiest way, though, to judge if a player is a Hall of Famer or not is to compare his numbers with those who are already in the Hall. The first name that comes to mind is Andre Tippett, who spent his whole career with the Patriots. Tippett was inducted in 2008, some 15 years after retiring. So it took some time for him to get in. Even still, though, Andre is in there with fewer sacks (100), fewer interceptions (1 - Taylor has 7), fewer fumble recoveries (19 - Taylor has 26), fewer Pro Bowl appearances (5), and fewer first-team All-Pro honors (2).
Howie Long is also in the Hall of Fame despite having a career sack total of just 84. Long, though, does have two more Pro Bowl appearances than Taylor - but has been named a first-team All-Pro one fewer time. Taylor also has more interceptions and fumble recoveries than Long. Taylor also averages more sacks per year than Long (10.04 to 6.46) and more sacks per game than Long (0.651 to 0.469). Long, of course, does have that Super Bowl ring that has eluded Taylor throughout his career - though it certainly isn't Jason's fault.
The case against Taylor
I think you have to start out here by looking at Kevin Greene. Greene ranks third all-time on the career sacks list with 160. However, not only is Greene not a Hall of Famer - but he wasn't even a finalist this past year. That means he didn't even get 80% of the vote. In his 15 year career, Greene was a 5 time Pro-Bowler and 2 time first-team All-Pro. Yes - Taylor has Greene beat by one in each of those categories. But Greene led the NFL in sacks twice in his career and averaged more sacks per year than Taylor does (10.66 to 10.04) and more sacks per game than Taylor does (0.702 to 0.651). His five career interceptions and 26 career fumble recoveries are also very similar to Jason's numbers. If Greene can't seem to get into the Hall of Fame (for some reason that is beyond me, by the way), how can we expect Taylor to get voted in?
The same thing goes for long-time Vikings defensive end Chris Doleman. Doleman ranks 4th all-time in sacks with 150.5. However, he, too, is not a Hall of Famer. Doleman is an 8 time Pro-Bowler and 2 time first-team All-Pro. And his 1989 season that saw him tally 21 sacks is the third highest sack total in NFL history. Doleman has eight career interceptions (same as Taylor) and 24 career fumble recoveries (two less than Taylor). And he averages basically the same number of sacks per season as Taylor does (10.03) and barely fewer sacks per game (0.649). If Doleman can't get in, can you make a case that Jason Taylor should be in?
What can Taylor do
Jason Taylor will turn 35 years old on September 1. Some of the game's great sack artist all had some very good seasons at the age of 35 and beyond. Kevin Greene, for example, tallied 37.5 sacks in three seasons after turning 35. Chris Doleman picked up 46 sacks in four seasons after his 35th birthday.
Jason is coming off of a very tough season in Washington. But he's only one year removed from an 11 sack Pro Bowl season back in '07. How much does Jason have left in the tank? Will he be a rejuvenated JT now that he's back in Miami? These are the questions that we'll find out answers to in 2009. Does Jason need a post-35 career like Greene and Doleman? I really have no idea. After all, despite their efforts, neither player is in the Hall. Meanwhile, Tippett is in even though his career was over before ever playing a full season following his 35th birthday.
Clearly, these Hall of Fame voters are tough to understand. But being the homer that I am, another 10 sack season - moving Taylor into 10th place all-time - should be enough to get him in at some point. However, it's also fair to say that 30 sacks over the next three seasons still wouldn't be enough to get Taylor elected - at least until Kevin Greene and/or Chris Doleman get elected.
It'll be very interesting to see how this plays out as the years progress - that's for sure.
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Comments
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by DolPhanDave on Jun 17, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and I say as of now, he is not
but 2-3 more ‘solid’ years and we may have something….
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by DolPhanDave on Jun 17, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Jason Taylor has a much higher profile than either Greene or Doleman. He’s a bona fide celebrity in the eyes of millions. That’s what got Howie Long in so easily. Having said that, it is an absolute travesty that Kevin Greene and Chris Doleman are not in the Hall. I think Trace Armstrong deserves consideration, as well.
by kdock on Jun 17, 2009 12:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kdock took the words right out of my mouth....
… I was thinking about what could keep these two great DE’s from the Hall… and I believe it’s like what kdock said…. fame.
It is what got Howie in, why else, if his stats are lesser than others?
Gooooooooooooo
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by Alpha6 on Jun 17, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only 53% of DL/LB get in on first or second ballots
Of the 45 DL/LB elected into the Hall of Fame, only 24 got in on their first to third year of eligibility. Many got in 10-15 years after they retired, so look for Greene and Doleman within the next 5 years to get in. Taylor probably has a bit of an advantage over them due to his popularity, not to mention if he produces this year he could pad his stats even more in the next two to three years.
by luvs2drnk on Jun 17, 2009 5:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's criminal
…that Greene is not in the HOF.
I think familiarity breeds contempt in some cases. As an example, let’s say the Beatles never broke up and kept making music. In that time, they lost their touch, and their music became more rote and bland. Most people would recognize their accomplishments – but the statement “when they were good” would become attached to their names, thus slightly diminishing them in some minds. For JT, I think a lot has to do with production. If he has a decent year and the team itself finds continued success, I think that’ll go a long way for him. If he has another poor year, and the team somehow doesn’t have a season that can be deemed “successful,” then that’s going to hurt him a bit, and the label “stayed past his prime” will likely be attached to his name.
But my thought is that he’s a lock at this point.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
by mikem1224 on Jun 17, 2009 8:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comparing the Beatles with JT?
Maybe that’s a bit overboard, don’t you think? Not sure that’s a good argument.
by stonecoldcory on Jun 17, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, not a comparison in the slightest.
it’s an analogy.
A better one might be Brett Favre – playing past one’s glory years…the difference there is that he’ll still be recognized when he’s done, and I think JT still has plenty in his tank.
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"
by mikem1224 on Jun 17, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I think he’s got at least 8-10 sacks in him this year.
by stonecoldcory on Jun 18, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His 8 touchdowns
for a DL is pretty impressive. I feel he needs another 12-15 sacks to assure a Hall of Fame induction, but could get in with what he has already accomplished. Greene and Doleman should both be in already, IMHO.
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by Phintastic on Jun 17, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm wondering if
his brother-in-law ZT, has a better chance to get in. Would be nice if they were both inducted at the same time.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
by Phintastic on Jun 17, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think more than stats...
…you have to ask- was this guy consistently one of the best at his position while played in the league? I think for JT, the answer is a resounding yes for the bulk of his career.
by NumberSeven on Jun 17, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he does have the no super boiwl ring stigma working against him.
Can't stop to save my soul
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by Patssuck456 on Jun 17, 2009 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's more of a problem
For quarterbacks than anyone else. Great QBs often end with similar stats, so the defining characteristic becomes Super Bowl wins.
As for Taylor, I think he’ll get the nod as a second-ballot HOF if he retired today. His stats are great, and he’s also been a highly visible, charismatic, and active (in community projects) player throughout his career. Altogether, it’s hard to make an argument for keeping him out (arguably, he and Michael Strahan are the best two d-lineman since Reggie White retired).
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by ocelotfox on Jun 17, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Greene had great players with him
JT never seemed to have a great player opposite him, unless you count Trace Armstrong.
by VA phin Fan on Jun 17, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
JT will get in....
because of what kdock said. The DPOY and TD record sets him apart also. Zack will have a much tougher time, he was overshadowed by Taylor and other LB’s as well. Trace Armstrong has zero chance.
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by closetphinphan on Jun 17, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If they counted sacks in Deacon Jones' day...
He would have about 10,000 sacks. That should be the real standard.
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
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by AussieKen on Jun 17, 2009 12:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
but you can also make the argument that offensive lines weren't as good as they are today.
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by Matty I on Jun 17, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention the head slap
which is how he got most of them, you get kicked out of a game if you use that now.
by uncle finster on Jun 17, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point
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by Matty I on Jun 17, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah... he would.. !!
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"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
by Alpha6 on Jun 17, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JT is borderline right now
I think he will be a shoo in if he can get his sack totals into the top 5 all time. If he can play for 4 more years and get around 40 more sacks, that should get him in.
by ct1361 on Jun 17, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When considering the HOF
all the numbers are to be counted, and what has been left off this post are some critical numbers, forced fumbles, which in truth is a much more important stat then recoveries, and JT has 40 of those, pass deflections 64 and tackles 680.
I know the PDs and Ts have not been officially kept forever, but they are kept now, since 01 Ts and PDs have been officially kept, and unofficial tackles have been kept for quite some time now by each individual team, since 01 JT has put up 55 PDs about 7 per year and 482 Ts 60 per year.
So lets look at the avgs. of all the stats for JT;
10 sacs per year, 60 Ts per year, 7 PDs per year, 3.6 FF per year, 2.3 FRs per year and add his 7 ints and NFL records 5 FR TDs(all time) and 8 total Def. TDs(tops among DLineman) and you have a died in the wool true to life NIGHTMARE for opposing offenses.
JT in no way is a paper tiger either, those stats were manifested on the field as everyone knows, he was a dominant player at his position during his time, and did at times become an unstoppable dominant force in games, to the point where he just took over the game, like the 21 to 0 drubbing of the pats on monday night in 06.
JTs notoriety which has been well covered here, is due mainly to what I have just mentioned, DOMINANCE and that is why I don’t think he will have to wait to get in, he is a special player.
GREAT POST MATTY:>)
by uncle finster on Jun 17, 2009 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It'll probably take a while
but him and a clip of him on Dancing with the Stars will be in Canton
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by TheTealDeal on Jun 17, 2009 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he is in
don’t think the no superbowl rings will hurt him, even though he still can get one (this year perhaps?!?!?!)…his stats are definitely good enough to get him in
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by MiamihastheDolphins.... on Jun 17, 2009 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
800 votes and 26 comments?
800 VOTES WOW
by uncle finster on Jun 17, 2009 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just goes to show you that we have a ton more people who read this site and don't post than many of you knew
and some of those were the people who complained about the off-topic comments and whatnot
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by Matty I on Jun 18, 2009 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was shocked at that number
thats volume
by uncle finster on Jun 18, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What were the whatnots..? LMAO!!!
30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
by Alpha6 on Jun 18, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually now its around
908 votes 31 comments
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by TheTealDeal on Jun 18, 2009 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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