The Future of CP10. . .
by Phinsguy99 on Jun 12, 2009 8:34 AM EDT
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Everyone knows, or should know, that by now, Henne is wanted 1st stringer by 2010. Which means this could be last year even as a Dolphin for beloved CP10. The thing is, what the Trifecta never released was what they were planning to do with CP10. . .
I think Chad (Pennington) definetly needs to be kept. Reason one, he's expeirenced. A guy like Chad could really mentor two 3rd and 2nd seasoner's. Henne would mentor from Chad and maybe that would help. Second, we need to keep him untill they see if Henne is any good or not. If you got rid of Chad to Kansas City or something then realized Henne was no good. . .your screwed. .and left with a skinny-legged 2nd seasoner.
Of course if Henne is just as good as #10, then Pennington might be screwed. There are definete teams that might want him and need him season after next. KC for instence. May still be in a QB jam year after next. After the phen-omonal comeback season last year. So many tams would be interested in Chad if we let him go. We could trade him to some teams and get some good money or some good players. Trading would be risky buissness, but it always is isnt it?
Still, in my opinion we need to keep CP10 incase the Tuna's plan goes wrong. . .
Thoughts?
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i dont think its about being a backup...
CP10 knows he’s only getting older… which for him, is an unfortunate thing. With henne and white, they too are getting older like u and i but they’re entering their prime. With Cp10 staying for 2010 he’s still only helping these two. and i do believe chad would settle for a backup role bc he truly will do whats best for the team—unlike vince young right now.
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by el presidente 00 on Jun 13, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
What the heck?
Right now 54% of Phinsiders say “We’ll see in 2010”, and 18% say “Trade”, hasn’t CP shown enough that you’d want him back next year even if he isn’t the starter? Even if Henne turns out to be everything that we hope, CP would be a great back up, a great locker room guy and an all around good mentor to a team getting younger and younger. Besides, he probably doesn’t have any tangible trade value.
This isn’t a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately situation, he deserves to and mentor this team in the future.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
-Hunter S. Thompson
tangible trade value?
he was runner up in the MVP voting. Not only would he give us at least a 2nd round pick, but probably more. Some say his age would deter anyone but ask Warner how he’s feeling.
I think we need to trade him. The QB position is coachable. The right system coachs can make you. Brady was aweful in college(6th round pick). Cassels NEVER started a game last year. Romo(I beleive), was an undrafted FA. If guy proves he has the physical ability to throw a ball and the mentall ability to learn, then it’s about the teachers. Henne has proved this.
Trade CP10 now.
As for a “What have you done for me lately”, yes it is. pro athletes get paid a ton of money for there services. They get compensated well. To keep him around to feel good was lost when the players started making 7 digit salaries.
As for a back-up, it would be wasting a ton of resources. Thant’s too much under the cap for one position.
San Fran, Tampa and Minni are excellent possibilites or wait till a starting QB goes down.
trade value
let’s see what he does this year before saying he’ll fetch a 2nd Rounder. A guy at his age, with his injury history— he’d have to lead the fins deep into the playoff to even think about a 2nd Round pick coming back. In that case, you trade away the guy who led you to back to back playoff trips?
I think what they do with Chad P depends more on Chad H’s development. It’s fine and dandy to anoint him QB of the future- but he’s got to show he’s ready.
by NumberSeven on Jun 12, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
A 2nd rounder?
I don’t buy it. If he had trade value why didn’t the Jets try and trade him instead of release him? CP is a great quarterback but any reasonable person would disagree that you could get anything close to a second for him.
Chad contributes more to this franchise than throwing/handing off a football. Leadership, heart, intellegence….to name a few qualities. His value to this franchise is more than his play. I really hope someday he retires a Dolphin and becomes a quarterbacks coach. Maybe even someday he takes over for Henning if he [Henning] leaves for a head coaching job.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
-Hunter S. Thompson
A system usually does not make a QB
You are pointing out the rare exceptions.
Can't stop to save my soul
I take the leash that's leading me
I'm bleeding me, whoa!
His trade value is lower than his value to the team
No way would a team give up a 2nd for him in the last year of a contract. He will determine his value on the open market after this season and only then can you make a move with him.
Steelers rule, Phins are cool,
Pats and Jets blow donkeys
by closetphinphan on Jun 12, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
but what did NE get for Cassel?
They got a 2nd rounder and critics said they only reason it was a 2nd and not a first was because Billy B does not like 1st rounders. This is for a guy with 1 yr expirience, a 1 yr contract and a pay cheque worth $10mil(?) a year.
And Cassel had Moss/Welker and didn’t finish 2nd in MVP.
CP10 can last the full year if he isn’t on his ass the entire game like he was in NY.
I’m not suggesting we can get a first rounder but a 2 × 2nd or a 2nd and 3rd is reasonable.
Cassel is also young and seen as still getting better
while Pennington is older, has a checkered history regarding injuries and putting together good seasons back-to-back. We won’t get a 2nd for Pennington.
Couple that with the never-ending stigma following weak-armed QB’s, and Pennington’s trade value is a lot lower than we would like it to be. The ONLY team I could see that would make a deal for him would be Minnesota, and even that would be unlikely considering how they want a vertical passing game..
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
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by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 12, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think a DET would be a good fit to change the cuture untill the new rich kid steps up
I think SF would look at him. Singletary loves gamers.
St.Louis would look at it. They are trying to get sold so winning now is paramount.
Tampa has a ton of room and real leader.
And yes, Minny would be a perfect fit and make them a top 3 favorite for the bid dance.
Detroit has Stafford
and will probably be starting Culpepper this year.
San Fran has a QB battle between Shaun Hill, who Singletary likes, and Alex Smith.
St. Louis just signed Bulger to a 6 year deal 2 years ago, so he’s their “veteran win-now” guy.
Tampa drafted Josh Freeman, and they have Greise, McCown, and Byron Leftwich.
Minnesota needs a QB, but Childress, for some strange reason, is happy with the crap he has now, and Pennington doesn’t fit their philosophy because they like the vertical passing game.
There’s just not the type of market out there that would make trading him worth while. He’s much more valuable to our team than he would be to just about any other team, and there’s no way we’re getting a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him. Houston would be another team, but Schaub got a big contract a couple years ago. I think most of the teams you listed would give him a look if he was cut, but I can’t see these teams trading high draft picks for him.
Phinsider HOF C/O 2009
Winner of Four 2008/2009 Matty Awards
Gravitationally Dominated since 1986
by Little Nicky 21 on Jun 12, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, St. Louis
isn’t going to go for him with just re-signing Bulger. The rumor around here is that they are going to probably draft a QB next year and then use the last 3 years of Bulgers contract to teach the kid.
As far as who might be willing to trade for him, Washington seems like they are more than willing to get a replacement for Campbell, what with making inquiries into both Cassel and Cutler before the draft.
But overall, I have to agree with Nicky, I don’t see a lot of teams that are in a position of needing to trade for a veteran starting QB right now. I think that depending on how this season goes, there could be more than a few looking at him after his contract is up though.
"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue
Det has Culpepper...yes but didn't we have McCown before CP10 was "available"?
San Fran Likes Hill cause the other option sucks donkey weiner
St.Louis has Bulger bit was not for sales when they signed him. They could be inticed to change the QB to win now so the club is more valuable.
Because Tampa has Greise, McCown and Leftwich tells me they have a need for a #1 bridge until Freeman is ready
Minny, I think would be perfect…before they sign Farve though..
I think teams understand his true vale, hense the runner up for MVP. He is realized as one of the best leaders in the game right now.
What's the rush..??
If CP10 is winning games… hasn’t shown any degredation… what’s the rush in doing anything with him?
Having a gun like Henne as the wing man shouldn’t be a problem, is it?
Just take one year at a time, see what develops…………
30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
i can appreciate that. The only rush would be we can get more value for him now vs later
because he is a free agent next year, we would need to franchise him to get something in return. Then he comes with a $10mil or so price tag. This year he comes with a $3mil.
Also, lots of QB have bad first years. If Henne has a bad first year, you should give him a 2nd yr to ensure he is the one. By that time you are looking at potentially 3yrs from now to find out if that’s the case(CP10 starts in 2009, Henne in 2010 and 2011). In 3 yrs from now, lots of changes will occur.
My thinking is if we’re sold on Henne, which looks like the coaching staff is, get him in there this year so next year he’ll have 1 yr expirience and the game slows down for him and we can make a run, as most of our key guys will still be around.
This is why getting value for an asset like CP10 makes sence. Now, if the FO is not sold on Henne, sign CP10 to 2 more years.
Again, I’m a big beleiver that the QB position is coachable. Your success has lots to do how the game is explained and showed to you.
Example: Alex Smith in San Fran had 3(?) differant systems in 4 years. Russell in Oak has a ton of tallent and is smart, but bo solid coaching structure. Manning, same system for 10 yrs. Henne is the guy if our coaching staff does it right and I have a lot of respect for our coaches.
OMG
Another TRADE TRADE TRADE post. We can get a 1st.. a 2nd.. a 2nd.. maybe a -1 rounder!! OMG wth the draft pics. Get over it.
How many players come out of the draft and actually become TOP PLAYERS in the NFL each year? 3 or 4 ? I do not mean good players.. I mean elite players. How many are BUSTS? I would say over 1/2 the draft class each year is a BUST. Trading a known good leader and player for a “maybe” player is just not a smart choice.
Sure having more draft pics cannot hurt really, but trading away your quality players in hopes that you will land that perfect draft pic is nuts.
As for the person saying a QB is a “coachable position” ? ? ? How the heck do you come up with that idea? Tell that to all the coachable QBs that have walekd through the Dolphins doors in the last 10 years. Why couldnt we “coach” one of those to be as good as Penne? Also why did the front office decide to snatch up Penne instead of going with Beck or Henne last year? I mean the QB position isnt that important.. it can be coached… right?
Keep Penne as starter if he does good again this year, if not keep him as a backup/mentor for the younger guys.
Im totally not getting caught up in this post
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009 / 2 Time Matty Award winner
Author of "ITM"....the original forefather to CKC
Epic 09' Predictions - JT comeback player of yr / Ronnie Brown 1500 yards
Creator and Co-Host of the "Phinsider Feud" Gameshow!!!
Driver of the Trade Dan "Automatic Out, E-4" Uggla
... and this is going into the Phinsider EPIC hall...
… that once, in the entire time of Phinsider, Rzayo didn’t get caught up in a post.
30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
so true......
Casino Friday night + Controversial topic = Ban potential. Gotta lead by example….im a HOF’r lol.
FYI….Inside the Mind RETURNS….soooooooooooooooooooooooon.
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009 / 2 Time Matty Award winner
Author of "ITM"....the original forefather to CKC
Epic 09' Predictions - JT comeback player of yr / Ronnie Brown 1500 yards
Creator and Co-Host of the "Phinsider Feud" Gameshow!!!
Driver of the Trade Dan "Automatic Out, E-4" Uggla
Aw excellent Rz!!!!
I look forward to it… yeeeeeeepeeeeeee!
30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
Bottom line,
We will play the best player available – Year by Year.
Just leave it at that.
Today, CP is better than Henne.
This is year 3 of a 3-4 yr plan, so please let it unfold. If we end up 8-8 or worse.. Decide if a better QB would have won us 3 or more games, if so, bye bye Chad. If not, and if Henne is still no better in 2010, then keep CP and improve the position(s) that hurt us most.
It’s not that difficult !
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight"
Lyle Alzado
08-09 No Award Winner
how would you know if Henne is any good unless he plays a full season?
If you keep Penne, do you bench him to put Henne in to see what he has? Or you wait untill a blow out game to get him some reps. Then that won’t prove anything cause DEF play differant during blowouts.
If you want to build a team that will produce for long periods of time, you need to look at both the present and the future, not just year by year.
Trade him and get what you can
If the coaching staff is committed to Henne in ’10, trade Pennington now while you can still get something for him. Otherwise he walks without any compensation after this year. There is now way that he will take a contract extension to be a back-up. He still sees himself as a starter and someone will at least give him the opportunity to compete for the job.
if a team need's a qb. just wait for atlanta's vick to hit the market i see ne. making a effort on picking up this talent copy or not.
atlanta just made vick a free agent, he can sign with anyone on the cheep. even if you pick him up for your practice squad, it make’s sence. at lest u can now have someone who can run the wild cat. u can now play defence durring practice. when u know miami is up next week. again ne. we took pat white in front of him so i see him swooping up on michel vick if for just the facthe play’s us twice a year.
by wild zion beaver on Jun 12, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions
trade him now, start henne. contend for superbowls consistently.
thats my plan. do you guys want to argue about this. because i have no problem doing it. CP is the equivalent of a protective peice that you use. When using it it was great. You were efficient and it was GREAT!!!! but now for the sake of the future and the sake of developing into a true consistent conteneder we must go with Henne. He has the tools and the mindset to make this offense even more explosive…and who says he cant come in and be better than CP? He’s ready. He’s said it. The coaches have said it. The Time is Now….LETS GO!!!
I believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. I'll make you proud LCFF
Official Leader of the Trade for Kenny Britt Bandwagon
Longest Sig In the History of Phinsider belongs to Me. 53 Lines in Total.
Check it out.Front Paged - Class of 08. and 09.
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LOL start henne=contend for superbowls consistently.
but i get your point, part of me would like to see Henne step up and be so good they have to start him, but thats the only way i want him to start, if CP is better then go with CP, and let Henne get another year of digesting the Offense.
Either way i think we will start contending for superbowls consistently, cuz thats what good organizations do, and thats what we now have:>)
by uncle finster on Jun 13, 2009 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions
we only have 17, game's. last year the first game, i was sitting in my perch watching pregame.
farve was throwing 40 yd.spirel’s, then i watch cp. 1st throw maybe 20yds. for the rest of the warmup’s not one pass over 30 yds. now that first game there were two passe’s that were extreamly precise, both were droped. there were other’s, where the defence clearly droped 2 or 3 ints. we did shove it right down ny, but with the surprize, that we laied on ne. that 3rd. week. who’s to say with that wrinkle, (heene), would also be one year under his belt, & have lead us to the playoff’s as well. it’s getting complacating for this simple mind. thx for the post keep up the tarific work! wzb.
by wild zion beaver on Jun 13, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
OK. I've read many good pros and cons on this issue...
… and I take my stand with Finsx here. True enough, CP10’s arm has been average at best. Getting older usually means some loss in consistency too. If the team is all about getting better, then Henne is the way to go.
I am officially on the “Start Henne Now” wagon………..
30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
henne lost out playing in our only playoff game. extreamly valueabul experence shot he'll never get that back.
GREAT OPPERTUNITY, and also uno lots of careactor has been lost i offtened wondered why dallas qb. had to be subjected to a 1-15 season like they were it was a careactor thing in the building prossess. i’m no coach just a simple mind. observe & report
by wild zion beaver on Jun 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
hec if we just pound our division that's 2/3s of the win's
right now new england, with the addition’s & experence seam to be second best in our division. buffalo 3. but the jet’s, seam to be the doormatt’s of the afc. east. nuf said about the jet’s & buffalo both team’s fl good greef. dominate atlanta, san diago need’s a good behind wooping oh ya the stealer’s at the end of the year, 1 way or anotherlet’s cripple some steeler’s reserve’s!!!!!
by wild zion beaver on Jun 15, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok....i cant resist........
Even I….as the biggest CP10 backer…say after this year its proablly Henne time. Barring another MVP type season….and Henne showing he is ready like he has so far.
This season? CP10 all the way…till/IF we are outta it…but I find it hard to believe thats gonna happen. No matter what I’m against the switch until after week 10 at least.
Anyone PRO HENNE…. i know what your thinking….I think you just take for granted what we have thats all. We searched a LONG TIME for someone like CP….he is the best team leader we have had since Marino. Grove just was quoted he was shocked CP10 knew so many O-Line calls….thats what he does….hes just amazing when it comes to leading and keeping this team playing at a peak level. Henne is gonna be a good one…but rushing into it makes no sense IMO.
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009 / 2 Time Matty Award winner
Author of "ITM"....the original forefather to CKC
Epic 09' Predictions - JT comeback player of yr / Ronnie Brown 1500 yards
Creator and Co-Host of the "Phinsider Feud" Gameshow!!!
Driver of the Trade Dan "Automatic Out, E-4" Uggla
Here's the issue
Henne may not be the guy, but we don’t know if he is or not. What we do know is the CP10 is NOT that guy. The coaching staff and the front office has already said as much.
IMO, the more CP10 plays this year, the longer it is until we find that guy whether it is Henne or not.
well said
I believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. I'll make you proud LCFF
Official Leader of the Trade for Kenny Britt Bandwagon
Longest Sig In the History of Phinsider belongs to Me. 53 Lines in Total.
Check it out.Front Paged - Class of 08. and 09.
Finsx-LOL-Chart by KCsince88
"That guy"
I think we can all agree the more you learn ANYTHING in life….the better chance you have at being good at it. We have a chance to be really good this yr….and at the same time let Henne work in slowly.
We arent talking about Tret Green here…CP10 is not chop liver…hes as good a leader as you will find…and hes one hell of a quarterback with this team around him. All im saying is we are really good right now if you ask me…and there is no rush, the longer CP10 is here and Henne is preparing for his day…the better he will be once IT IS HIS DAY. we all agree that day is pretty soon….we just disagree by a couple weeks thats all.
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009 / 2 Time Matty Award winner
Author of "ITM"....the original forefather to CKC
Epic 09' Predictions - JT comeback player of yr / Ronnie Brown 1500 yards
Creator and Co-Host of the "Phinsider Feud" Gameshow!!!
Driver of the Trade Dan "Automatic Out, E-4" Uggla
the only issue ther is that you would get nothing for CP10 after this year. He walks.
IMO he is worth good stuff as the runner up in the MVP voting.
hes not really worth that much.....
nobody pays that much for a 1 yr rental…look at Favre..he was traded for a conditional 2nd-4th rd pick. I think if we tried to trade Chad the most we would get would be a 3rd rounder…if that.
let me ask you a question…how do you feel about the dolphins right now? pretty good right? ever since cp10 took leadership qb spot right? why are you in a rush to see if you can find his replacement…give the dude a fai chance this yr to win a super bowl i say.
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009 / 2 Time Matty Award winner
Author of "ITM"....the original forefather to CKC
Epic 09' Predictions - JT comeback player of yr / Ronnie Brown 1500 yards
Creator and Co-Host of the "Phinsider Feud" Gameshow!!!
Driver of the Trade Dan "Automatic Out, E-4" Uggla
I think the fins are pretty good right now
but the big problem that I see with the ‘09 season is the statement from Sparano and the FO that says Pennington will not be the starter in ’10. That statement alone almost makes the ’09 season irrelevant because you don’t know what you have at the most important position on the field in ’10, three years into rebuilding, when you should be competing for a superbowl.
By making that statement the FO is stating that Pennington is not the guy. And playing Pennington if you know he is not the future makes no sense. There is only so much he can do to “mentor” Henne.
Pennington also hurts the evaluation of the other aspects of the offense. How do you evaluate the OL when they are facing 8 and 9 men in the box because Pennington can’t stretch the field? How do you evaluate the WR’s when they are limited in the routes that they can run?
you could pretty much say
the lame ducker is (to quote J Ireland) a “progress stopper”
by W NY Fins Fan on Jun 14, 2009 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
What hasn't been discussed
Is CP10’s wishes. Does he even WANT to continue playing after 2010? If not, I say the fins should offer him a good contract to be Miami’s quarterback coach. Keep him around for years.
some body give me a hankey man i'm blogging in the raw again oh that's tear's & i do have a shirt on!
by wild zion beaver on Jun 14, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude.
30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman
Also..
If Henne was “the man” they why draft Pat White? And dont say “wildcat” because if they swap out QBs each play the other team will know your throwing the wildcat at them. If Henne had proven himself so great the FO would not have gone after Penne like they did. If Hene is so great then why is he running the #2 offence? And dont give me the “he ran the #1 today” as that was only because Penne was excused for a wedding. Do any of you read how he is not doing that good in the camps right now? Over throwing.. under throwning.. And again.. I do not want to hear “thats because our defence is so GOOD” either. He is not ready. Its plain and simple. Throw him out there now and it will most likely end up being another John Beck all over again. Penne is worth more to this team right now and for the next few years (playing or as a leader) then any 2nd or 3rd round pick would be worth. Why is it the “draft draft draft” people do not get it?
Pennington will be the starter
as long as this team is winning and he’s healthy. IMO there’s way to much blind support for Henne. Pennington right now gives us the best chance to win, he is the better quarterback. If Henne is as good as some people beleive then he would have beaten out Pennington by now or that’s what will eventually happen.
We have a good balance going now with Pennington leading a young offense we continue rebuilding and by the time this team is built strong hopefully Henne will come in and light it up.
Right now there’s no reason to beleive that Henne will ever be as good a quarterback as Pennington he still has to prove himself and his time will come but to get rid of Pennington now would be a mistake and wouldn’t send a very good message to the team either.
by fins72marino420 on Jun 14, 2009 1:45 AM EDT reply actions
maybe be but
Pennington right now gives us the best chance to win
but the question you have to ask is, since the lame ducker is maxed out, is …. if Henne were to start the first 4 games, which QB would give the team it’s best chance to win games 5-19??? and that is likely Henne. We know what we have with the lame ducker and that’s a 500 QB…. Henne has the potential to be so much more.
by W NY Fins Fan on Jun 14, 2009 2:44 AM EDT up reply actions
agreed
when fins72marion mentioned he gives us the best chance to win…win what?…10 games and a playoff spot?
If you’re happy with that then Penne should be the starter. If you want to try for a championship then you must put Henne in there to learn if he is the one. If he isn’t, then you find that out 1 yr sooner and get something for CP10 now.
However, it’s that narrow minded thinking that led us win 1 game a couple of years ago.
Putting Penne in there this year only delays the inevitable…the on the field learning curve each QB must go through. Some master it and some struggle, then the others struggle, learn and get better.
Having him sit on the bench for another dosen’t really do much for the team.
Period.
by Polephin on Jun 14, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
IMO this FO knows that Pennington
gives this team a better chance to win right now or else he wouldn’t be the starter. No harm in letting both Henne or White sit behind Pennington and be more prepared to lead this team when there time comes whether it be next season or who knows because all it takes is one hit. Pennington had a career season last year and was the major reason we won the division.
Not to mention our schedule just got much harder and i’m not sure Henne will be up to the challenge of some of the defenses we will face. You have to realize we’re still rebuilding and Pennington IMO fits better with this offense especially the receiving corps i’m sure if you asked any of them they would tell you he was the entire offense last season.
Maybe if we had a Fitzgerald or Moss Henne could just sling it to i would feel different but we don’t, we still have very young receivers and Pennington’s knowledge of the game and leadership on the field is crucial to their development.
by fins72marino420 on Jun 14, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions
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