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David Lee Whiteboards Wildcat

David Lee breaks down the base Wildcat plays. With all this talk about the Wildcat, why not hear it right from the horse...errr..wildcat's mouth?

5 months ago Lcffsig_tiny LeftCoastFinFan 31 comments 0 recs  | 

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the cool thing is that even McFadden isn't a passer.

you still have a QB as decoy out there at WR, and 2 RBs on the field. No offense to Ronnie or Ricky, but in talking about making the WC more of a spread, take one of them off… with White in at QB, you have your 2nd RB, but who now is a passing threat. The other one (Ronnie or Ricky) still lines up as the motion wing. Leave Ginn at Flanker, but put a REAL WR out there at the split end, instead of CP. Now use a BIG WR as the slot guy and BAM!, you have effectively spread the defense!

They now HAVE to defend the pass… not just stack the box and blitz.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the one problem when you make the wildcat a spread

is you lose the advantage in the run game, and if you have White in, to attack the middle of the line you have to hand it off, which kind of just makes it like any other formation, also the unbalanced line is not a good pass protect formation, so why not just line up in a traditional spread?

by uncle finster on Jun 10, 2009 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no no no....

the already has a SE, FL, and a Slot player lined up. The thing that keeps it from spreading the D is that one of the WRs is a QB, and no one take him seriously, and the Slot guy is usually a TE or FB, so he adds a blocker, but as a receiver can be covered by a LB. that’s it. that’s the only reason that the way we ran it last year let opposing Ds stack the box.

You want to run power off T? Fine. With Wilford, London, or Turner in at Slot, you probably don’t lose too much over a TE as a blocker, but you force the D to cover them with a DB or you have a mismatch right there. And you also put one of those big guys out at SE instead of the QB, which now takes up another DB, and probably requires Safety help. But it doesn’t work unless you have a legit passer behind Center.

The WC is a run formation with the threat of a pass, but you have to have the threat, and be able to execute if the D starts blitzing you. And you have to be able to play-action off of it to keep the Defense from gaining that extra step rushing to the ball carrier. If you have a designed pass, it is off of some kind of misdirection, so the line does not need to pass protect in the traditional sense. You pass off a PA, boot, fleaflicker, etc.

So, except for the Flanker (Ginn), you still have the ball carrier and 9 blockers on a Power run Off T or sweep. But instead of the D bringing in an extra LB or SS for run support, or bringing 8 or 9 guys in the box like last year, they are forced to protect against the pass. You GAIN a BIG advantage in the run game!

And what do you lose with White as a runner? Not as much as you think. He is not a small guy by RB standards in general, and certainly not by scat back standards. Put 5 lbs or so on him and he is Cobbs size; 10 lbs and he is Darren McFadden’s size. He’s not a grind it out, “30 carries a game” back like Ronnie, but he can certainly attack the middle of the line. Especially in the WC, because the point of the direct snap out of the shotgun is to give the runner the ability to see where the hole develops and hit it. So no, you don’t have to hand it off for an inside run. But you can. And you can still hand it off on a sweep. Or you can run use the Wing back as the lead blocker on a weak side run and throw everyone off.

The D has to respect the pass option, and if they don’t and stack the box and bring the blitz, you make ’em pay.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 11, 2009 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh no, here we go again:>)

I have some major discrepancies here, it seems to me that your having an overactive imagination, cuz some of this stuff is coming out of Left field, no pun intended:>)

the already has a SE, FL, and a Slot player lined up

You seem to be under the impression that Ginn played in the wildcat, he didn’t, NO WRs in our wildcat last year, 2 TEs and 3RBs, Chad split-out, Ricky in the slot and usually Cobbs in the short slot, no FL.

You want to run power off T? Fine. With Wilford, London, or Turner in at Slot, you probably don’t lose too much over a TE as a blocker;; And you also put one of those big guys out at SE instead of the QB, which now takes up another DB, and probably requires Safety help

The best blocking WR in the league is no match for the worst blocking TE in the league, WRs block DBs, TEs and RBs block DEs and LBs. I’m talking about squaring up on the line blocking here, not crack backing, Hines Ward is the best crack back blocker in the league, but he would be the first to tell you, he can’t square up on a LB.
Wilford, London, or Turner will never command double teams, they are just not fast enough.

And you have to be able to play-action off of it to keep the Defense from gaining that extra step rushing to the ball carrier.;;You pass off a PA, boot, fleaflicker, etc.

You can’t use PA out of the shotgun, hence you can’t bootleg, cuz the bootleg is an extension of the PA. PA is when the QB is under center and fakes the hand off with his back to the defense so he can “hide” the ball, since there is no running back behind you, you can’t use PA, and bootleg gets its name from that “hiding” of the ball, just like the bootleggers were “hiding” whiskey from the law.
You can certainly fake a hand off, or run out to the flat to throw the ball, but since you can’t “hide” the ball, you wont fool the defense, and PA and bootleg is all about fooling the D.

So, except for the Flanker (Ginn), you still have the ball carrier and 9 blockers on a Power run Off T or sweep. But instead of the D bringing in an extra LB or SS for run support, or bringing 8 or 9 guys in the box like last year, they are forced to protect against the pass. You GAIN a BIG advantage in the run game!

You can certainly gouge the D on a run play out of the spread, but first you have to establish a dangerous passing game, its the opposite of the wildcat, we were very successful when we threw it out of the wildcat, cuz of how dangerous we were running out of that formation, in the spread the pass sets up the run, in the wildcat the run sets up the pass, in the spread the run is a surprise, in the wildcat the pass is a surprise, and thats why it works in both formations.
The reason they can’t put 8 or 9 in the box is because you don’t have as many in the box, its a two way street, so now you have less blockers in the box.

And what do you lose with White as a runner?
Speed, power and maybe a QB. The R&R boys are both faster, and everyone on the team is stronger, including kickers! And if we are serious about White as a QB, you can’t have him lower his shoulder and slam into the line, the risk of injury is too great, suppose White hits the hole and KABLAM he gets tattooed by a safety or a LB, is that how you want to use a QB?
He is not a small guy by RB standards in general, and certainly not by scat back standards. Put 5 lbs or so on him and he is Cobbs size; 10 lbs and he is Darren McFadden’s size. He’s not a grind it out, "30 carries a game" back like Ronnie, but he can certainly attack the middle of the line. Especially in the WC, because the point of the direct snap out of the shotgun is to give the runner the ability to see where the hole develops and hit it.
But he is small for a RB, 220LBs is the avg. for NFL RBs, but regardless he is not a RB, RBs are conditioned over time to be able to take the pounding that they take, its no secret that RBs take the most abuse in the NFL, which is why they have the shortest careers of any position.
When White was in college and a Safety or LB was bearing down on him, he did what any QB would do, he slid, do you want him to do that in the back field when there is no hole?

The wildcat was designed to out man the D on one side of the field on running plays, when you spread the O out you lose that, cuz remember your trying to take a power running formation, and turn it into a passing formation, which brings me back to my initial point, if you want to run the spread, run the spread, if you want to run the wildcat, run the wildcat, trying to combine them, IMO, weakens both.
:>)

by uncle finster on Jun 11, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i am sorry to tell you, you could not be more wrong if you tried...

you could try, but you would not be successful.
=)


sorry about the stupid little arrows, but this is what i could find on my way to bed.

See that guy at the top? That is the Split End. See the next guy, the set back? that’s the TE.

See the worthless guy hanging out down at the bottom, back off the line? That is the Flanker.

Now NE had not figured out what to do Defensively yet, but teams figured out pretty quickly that the guy at the bottom (Chad) was not much of a receiving threat. In this picture, NE still has 4 DBs on the field.

And here’s a trivia question for you… do you know who that SE is at the top of the picture? I’ll give you a hint… he is actually a WR, not some TE or FB lined up out there.

So, back to my ideas for upgrade: Replace Chad with a real receiving deep threat (Ginn). This WILL, in fact, force Safety help IF we have a legitimate passer taking the snap. As for the other WR, I am pretty sure that any of the guys I mentioned will be an upgrade over the guy playing that position in the NE game, in both blocking and receiving capacity.
As for the slot guy? Well, we can agree to disagree, but don’t you wonder a little bit why they are training Wilford at WR? Regardless, put Haynos in there and Fasano on the line… you still have legitimate receiving threats.
And as for White running between the tackles… watch his highlight reel. The guy has awesome vision. The point of being back in the gun, is that you have time to see how the play is developing and pick your hole. I’ll say it again, he will be fine.. it’s not like he is expected to PTR every play. Geez dude, Warrick Dunn is only 5’9", 187lbs, and HE runs between the tackles. Of course White can run the ball.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 12, 2009 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what to say

SEs and FLs line up outside the numbers, slot lines up inside the numbers, and as you can see he is only a few steps off the end of the line, that is the short slot, and there is no WR on the field :>)

Anatomy of a Play: “Wildcat” formation

by uncle finster on Jun 12, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay, here...

 A TE lines up as part of the OLine and ad WR lines up split out. The FL and SE positions are not defined by how far outside they line up. They are defined by the whether they line up on the line or off. The Slot WR is defined as the third WR, that lines up between a FL or SE and the O-line.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 12, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah

as for the PA/Bootleg stuff, what do you think Ronnie did on his one passing TD?
Faked to Ricky, and ran a naked boot left. That is exactly what he did.

The purpose of the wingback in motion is to fool the D and every time he comes in motion you are faking the handoff. The entire formation is designed to confuse the D. It is not intended to be simply a power run formation… if that’s all it was about, why not just line up in a single wing and power run every time?

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 12, 2009 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dude, you need a passer.

that is the whole argument and what will let them take the WC to the next level.
Without a passer at triggerman, of course it is only a running formation.

Seriously, do you just see White lined up at WR?

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 12, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes I do as a matter of fact

and he has lined up at WR in the wildcat, and that is the only pos. he has lined up in, in the wildcat, to our knowledge, and IMO no way will he be running it into the line, no QB has been asked to do that in the NFL, not if you think of him as a QB.

And regardless of how you are going to use him, there is not much precedence for turning a QB into a RB, but WR, the list is huge, including the #s 2, 3 and 4 NCAA all time rushing QBs. Brad Smith who set the record in 06, Josh Cribbs and Antwaan Randle El, who set the record back in 02, add Hines Ward, Tony Martin, Brian Mitchell and the list goes on.

 So I do think that is more realistic, then trying to use him like a proper RB and sending him into the line, where just like Reggie Bush, he would struggle to get any yards, because he’s not gonna break tackles, and he’s not gonna move the pile, so if there isn’t a gaping hole it wont go anywhere.

On another note I read this today

To this point of the offseason, the media has been allowed to watch five practices. Never has the team implemented White into the Wildcat package during that time.[as QB]
Yes, they have used White in a spread offense that looks similar to the Wildcat — but never in the actual Wildcat.
You and I both know its early, but this is what I expected to see, but we will know more when they strap on pads:>)

by uncle finster on Jun 15, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

YOU are not going to see ANYTHING

before they break it out in the game.
=)

Do you think they are going to start showing off their new formations to the entire league in offseason/preseason?

I don’t.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 15, 2009 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They did show White in that new formation

but I know what your saying, thats why I put the “to our Knowledge” and “You and I both know its early” comments in there, no one knew about the wildcat last year, but they dragged that out, out of desperation, lets hope we don’t need anything like that, this year, if they are going to use it we will most likely see it in the pre-season, either way this is the fun stuff to speculate about:>)

by uncle finster on Jun 15, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe so maybe so

but i am pretty sure the first time you see anything new will be in a real game.
I can see white lining up at WR also. OR as the wingback (RW’s) position. But the main thing is to have him somewhere that he can get his hands on the ball for passing. Lining him up at WR every WC down limits the talent they acquired him for.. specifically, the option.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jun 15, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea the wing back would be a great spot for him

now that you mentioned it, I hadn’t really thought about it but that is an awesome spot for him, coming through the formation every time not knowing if he’ll get it and run or throw, that could be a very interesting situo, and very dangerous, that would keep Ds guessing:>)

by uncle finster on Jun 15, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn Lefty!!!!!!!!!!!! Great find!

Hey finster…. slap yourself for not finding this first… heh heh heh

I love it. And that’s only three base… there’s a boat load that comes out of those.

A great find for this site!!

30 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"What's the point of getting in a sword fight with a guy you can run away from?" - Chris Doleman

by Alpha6 on Jun 10, 2009 3:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great find, Lefty.

It’s so simple, yet it works so well and looks so complex.

Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: How do you make an infinity sign on the computer? ∞

by KCsince88 on Jun 10, 2009 6:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah....

One second Ronnie is there, the next he ain’t :D

Same will be said about Pat White :D

Trey-Hillman-I'm-A-Dumbfuck-Giveaway-Counter: How do you make an infinity sign on the computer? ∞

by KCsince88 on Jun 10, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why do these stupid idiots make these vids?

So other teams can just watch and study there playbook?

I'm the proud maker of the nickname, Most Royal Conquistador.

Offical Leader of the Pat White's Awesome Bandwagon.

by Phinsguy99 on Jun 11, 2009 10:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

so the commoners can understand the wildcat

Can't stop to save my soul
I take the leash that's leading me
I'm bleeding me, whoa!

by Patssuck456 on Jun 14, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

Can't stop to save my soul
I take the leash that's leading me
I'm bleeding me, whoa!

by Patssuck456 on Jun 14, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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