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OLB: Are we really in need?

There's been a lot of pre-draft speculation centering around Parcells desire to find "the next LT" and whether or not we should take an OLB with one of our first 2 picks.  I've seen Brian Cushing, Clay Matthews, Larry English, Connor Barwin, and Clint Sintin all projected to us at either 25 or 44.  I even took Cushing as my "Draft Pick Bracket" choice.  But the more I think about it, the more I seem to question whether we are really in need of a 1st-round OLB.  Many people on this site have recognized that CB is probably our greatest need, and a playmaking WR would do wonders for our offense, but the mock draft world still seems to want to give us LB's at the first 2 picks.  So I wanted to take a closer look and see if we really do need an OLB in Round 1...

Star-divide

First, let's take a look at what we have.  I'll start at the Weakside OLB, or Rush LB position, since that's the position everybody seems to be projecting to us in the draft.

Starter - Joey Porter

Vitals - 6'3, 255lbs, 32 years old, 10 year pro.

Contract Info - 5yr, $32mil ($12mil bonus) signed in 2007.  3 years left.

  • Porter had a terrific 2008 season, but really seemed to hit a wall during the stretch run.  Whether that's due to age, or the back issues that he was fighting in the preseason flaring back up, the reality remains that Porter is on the backside of his career.  He struggled all year against the run, but showed that he's still the dynamic pass rusher he was in Pittsburgh.  He may be able to recapture some vintage Joey Porter after another offseason of Sparano-style conditioning.

Outlook - Porter will be the starter in 2009, so drafting a guy to step in immediately as a Rush Backer isn't the top priority.

Backups - Cameron Wake, Erik Walden

Vitals - Wake (6'3, 241lbs, 27 years old, 0 year pro.)  Walden (6'2, 237lbs, 23 years old, 1 year pro). 

Contract Info - Wake (4yr, $4.9mil, $1mil bonus.  signed this year.)  Walden (4yr, $1.7mil, ?? bonus.  3 years left)

  • Wake is a promising young player who simply dominated the CFL for the last 2 seasons.  Wake tacked up 39 sacks in 2 seasons in Canada, and added a ROY award and DPOY award to his resume.  He'll be a situational pass-rusher right off the bat, and he should be able to adjust nicely to the 3-4 defense.  There was reports of something like 22 teams trying to sign him out of the CFL, so I feel like we may have gotten a very good young player.  Imagine if he came out of college with that kind of production?  Top 5 pick.  I think that with his work ethic, and his incredible athletic ability, he could be the future Rush LB once Porter moves on.
  • Walden, a waiver-wire pickup from last season, is entering his second NFL season after being a special teams standout for the Dolphins in 2008.  I'm sure everybody's heard the cool tidbit about him being drafted with the 6th rounder we gave to Dallas in exchange for Ferguson, but it's always fun to talk about it again.  We know Walden is a special teams demon, and his presence instantly improved our coverage units last year.  He's got good speed, and is a sure tackler; plus, Brandon London thinks he's going to have a breakout season for us in 09, and really, can you get a more glowing endorsement than that?

Outlook - We have 2 very promising players behind Porter right now, and either of them could wind up being a solid starter.  There isn't a DeMarcus Ware/Shawn Merriman type on the roster right now, but many people have high hopes for Wake, and I think we should give Wake/Walden a chance before we go out and spend first round money on a Rush LB.

So, in my not-so-expert opinion, we don't need a Rush LB in the first round of this draft.  We have a seasoned-vet to start this season, and two guys that are developing into the role.  Whether Wake or Walden can take over the role remains to be seen, but I don't see Rush LB as our top priority, and I'm not sure we can get "the next LT" in this year's draft.

But what about the Strongside LB?  It's a completely different position, requiring a completely different skill set.  SSLB's are usually closer to the 4-3 DE type, and need to be stout against the run.  I think the run defense is more important for a SSLB than pass rushing skills.  Let's take a look at what we have here.

Starter - Matt Roth

Vitals - 6'4, 275lbs, 26 years old, 4 year pro.

Contract Info - 1 year remaining, at $550k.  However, I believe he'll be a restricted FA instead of an Unrestricted FA, due to the rule about needing 6 accrued seasons instead of 4 with 2010 being an uncapped year.

  • Roth had a pretty solid season last year, considering he was pretty much learning how to play LB on the fly.  He should be able to take another huge step after having a full season in the 3-4 behind him, and his intensity and high motor are quality attributes that can't be coached.  Roth was very good against the run last year, but his pass rush left alot to be desired, and while he may never be a true sack artist, I believe he'll improve in that area this season. 

Outlook - Roth is solid, but I think we could use some competition, and it's definitley not a bad idea to have a backup plan should Roth leave in Free Agency, or falter in his development as a 3-4 LB.  Is that competition/backup plan already on the roster?

Backups - Charlie Anderson, Quentin Moses

Vitals - Anderson (6'4, 250lbs, 27 years old, 5 year pro.)  Moses (6'5, 260lbs, 25 years old, 2 year pro.)

Contract Info - Anderson (3yr, $7.35mil, $2.5mil bonus, 2 years left)  Moses (1yr, $460k, restricted FA in 2010.)

  • Charlie Anderson tallied 34 tackles and 2.5 sacks last season, and was really only a situational player for us.  I don't think he can be a starter at this spot, and I'm not sure he can really press Roth for the job, so he doesn't exactly fit the competition/plan B need.  He is, however, a decent depth player, and a good enough special teamer to keep a roster spot.  But, as of right now, he's still just a backup.
  • Quentin Moses certainly has the measureables, at 6'5 250, to be a good Strongside LB, but he was cut twice, and he hasn't been able to get on the field in his 2 seasons here.  But, there's the possibility that 2 years in a row learning the same position in the same system could do wonders for the kid, and I think the fact that he was tendered a one-year deal instead of just being cut outright says that he at least has some potential.  I wouldn't be counting on Moses to be "the guy" if Roth leaves, or even to push for some playing time over Roth.

Outlook - Not a whole lot to expect out of this group, but I think Roth has earned another season to prove he can be the man at the SSLB spot.  I'm not sure we have to draft a top-tier guy to come in and take over just yet, but we definitely need somebody to compete with Roth and develop into a starting caliber player.

Overall, I think we have some talent, and we are, at the very least, set in the starting lineup for 2009.  But, beyond that, there's 2 question marks behind Porter that need to answered this season, and I think we could definitely use a draft pick to get a guy that can potentially take Roth's job.  I don't think that guy needs to be found in round 1.  I would look towards the end of round 2, or even to the second day of the draft for a guy like Lawrence Sidbury, Paul Kruger, Brandon Long, or David Veikune.  What do you guys think?

Poll
What do you think our best option for addressing the OLB position is?
Stand Pat. Wake/Walden and Roth/Moses/Anderson are good enough.
116 votes
Get a Strongside LB after the first round.
114 votes
We need a Rush Backer. Strongside is fine. Find one in Round 2.
127 votes
Pick the Best LB Available in Round 1. Let's not mess around with this position
78 votes
Get multiple LB's. This whole group is terrible.
16 votes

451 votes | Poll has closed

This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.

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Porter and Wake Team

I think that we could convert Porter into the Strong Side Linebacker, and give Wake the weak side pass rushing spot. Porter has more experience and could probably do it easily. It would also be a great way to bring Wake into the 3-4 defense.

Ted Ginn is the man.

by topspin on Apr 7, 2009 9:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ehh

Porter sucked against the run last year as the Weakside LB, I can’t imagine how bad our run D would be with him manning the Strongside. Also, this might be Porter’s last season with Miami. He hit a wall at the end of the year last year, and I have to question whether he can still be an every down player for us down the road.

by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 7, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

nice one

Nicky, IMO I feel if there isnt a CB worth our #1 all the good ones are not there when we are called…. we need to pull the trigger on a LB. Wake hopefully will be a monster but we cant bet the future on him, Roth is a very good football player fits great in a 4-3 as DE we all know that … I know your talking about OLB but.. ILB is a position that we need help in also.. all of my mumblings bring me to the conclusion of pick the best LB available in rd 1. CANT MESS WITH THAT POSITION

A feeding frenzy is about to take place in the dirty south

by FinfanT on Apr 7, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with ILB

I think we really need an upgrade to Ayodele, but I don’t see any value at that position at 25 unless Maualuga or Cushing drops.. I’m with you on not betting the future on Wake, but I think we need to let him spell Porter this year and see if he can hold the spot down before we spend a top draft pick to replace JP.

by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 7, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is no doubt a #1 CB will be there at #25

There is no way that Darius Butler, VOntae Davis, “and” Sean SMith will be gone by #25. At least one of them will be available, so #25 pick is soooooo obviously CB. Then, remember the way that Ireland and Co. work. The fact that OLB and WR continues to be the most being talked about shows that they are the smokescreens. THe roster moves shows CB being the #1 need and matches with what will be available at #25.

Matty is correct that with Porter, (a much lighter) Matt Roth, and Cameron Wake…and possibily Jason Taylor (the real reason why I believe MIA is waiting for the draft to sign Jason Taylor is because of the fact that signing him would cause MIA to lose leverage and mystery in the draft smokescreen department).

Think about it. If MIA signs Jason Taylor now…then that would all show MIA’s card that they will not be using the #25 pick on OLB potentially. MIA wants the mystery aspect of being able to confuse the league on who they will be targeting at #25, so they’ve told Jason Taylor, we are going to sign you, but will wait for after the draft in order to keep a stronger smokescreen mystery to what we are targeting at #25. Pretty obvious to me.

THen, WR? Nah, they are bringing Wilford back, so if Camarillo has any setbacks (which he has not)…Wilford is still a young BIG target to man that spot opposite Ginn Jr. Plus, I believe that MIA can and will target a second day player like Pat WHite as a depth guy/Wildcat specialist guy…

CB is the OBVIOUS target at #25, not OLB. I wouldn’t even be surprised (though they can still draft one in the 2nd round or beyond) if they dont pick one in the first day at all.

I see a scenario more like:

#25: CB Darius Butler/CB Vontae Davis
#44: NT Ron Brace
#56: QB Pat White/OLB Connor Barwin

by mred on Apr 8, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a 3-4 defense, LB's are a must.

Out of the 4 starting LB’s from last year, Porter was the only impact player of the bunch. Crowder was solid, but didn’t make enough big plays. The other two made even less plays than Crowder.

I think the most important position that needs addressing on D is an ILB. If you can stop the run with the front 7, you don’t need safety support, which allows them to help the CB’s in coverage.

I see all 1st day picks on D. With 2 LB’s and 1 CB drafted.

by ct1361 on Apr 7, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I rather take a 2nd day guy at OLB not a 1st day guy. The reason is mainly that it doesn’t seem that the ones that are availiable are better than what we havein Roth, Porter, &Wake. They should try to strike gold later in the draft with late round picks and try to get us at least 1 corner and 1 WR on the 1st day.

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

Coach Paul Bear Bryant

by AussieKen on Apr 7, 2009 10:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

voted for get muliple

not because i believe the group is terrible – i just believe that it is an old group that will need some depth and replacements….

so areas that need to be address – porter needs to be replaced soon… yes he was productive, but with a history of back issues lately, and his age.

AA – solid average ILB. didn’t hurt or harm the team… and area that needs upgradding soon.

CC – signed only to a 3 year deal at 26?? speaks volumes. there has to be some plan to develop a replacement here as well.

Roth – was very impressed with his ability to seal the corner and stop the run by the end of the year. but his contract will be up soon and his pass rush had to have been a dissappointment to the team?

and after that – i’m not sure there was much depth at the position? torbor – eh? C anderson had a few plays…

anyone i’m missing?

so yeah – they need 2-4 lb’s in this draft

by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 7, 2009 10:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i agree idk if we can be relyin on peezy

II believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. Most Comments in one Thread- total count = 1,101
Official Leader of the Draft Kenny Britt Bandwagon
Longest Sig In the History of Phinsider belongs to Me. 53 Lines in Total.
Check it out.
Front Paged - Class of 08. and 09.

by finsxfactor on Apr 7, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree there..

I’m not talking about ILB though, that’s a whole different conversation. I think we only need to draft 1 OLB in this draft, because Wake is essentially a draft pick, and Walden is only going into his second year.

We definitely need some help behind Roth though, and somebody that can potentially replace him if he’s gone.

by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 7, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ironically

the only 1st round linebacker I wouldn’t want is Cushing.

go figure

by Matty I on Apr 7, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol why? hes from nj too

II believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. Most Comments in one Thread- total count = 1,101
Official Leader of the Draft Kenny Britt Bandwagon
Longest Sig In the History of Phinsider belongs to Me. 53 Lines in Total.
Check it out.
Front Paged - Class of 08. and 09.

by finsxfactor on Apr 7, 2009 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm shocked you said that

You might be the only person I’ve read thus far who’s said that. I completely agree with that sentiment though.

I’m not terribly high on Mathews either..but yeah, I couldn’t agree more.

by Dave.Phuller on Apr 7, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matthews i like

And that’s cus I think he can play OLB or ILB….and his speed is rare from a LB…..not many run sub 4.6 40s

by Matty I on Apr 8, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

i stand by the 2-4 LBs… the unit other then Peezy was devoid of playmakers last year… and guys like roth (btw: just notice you still have roth at 275 but he was in the 250’s a couple weeks in the year…. IIRC ~257) while a great run stopper didn’t have any huge game changing plays off the top of my head…. but after that Zippo….

so my guess is after camp – i’d like to see 2-4 new LB’s in the core 9 or 10. and if anderson/torbor/AA/Moses moved on i wouldn’t shed a tear.

(as a side note – yeah with out a new CBA – roth does go to a six year deal and IIRC he doesn’t become a restricted until year 5 but my memory is hazy on that one)

by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 7, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would still

like to see us move up to get MauMau or even BJ if its doesnt cost us an arm and a leg. Solidify the middle. If that doesnt happen we need Brace with our first 2nd rounder if he’s still available. might even lean towards getting him at #25. NT, LB and 3 corners in the 1st 5 picks is what i would like to see. What does the LB draft situation look like next year? Any studs out there?

Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions

by Phintastic on Apr 7, 2009 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

eh

I don’t think we need Brace in round 2. There are 4 or 5 day two guys who could be good nose tackles in 2010 – after a year of learning from Ferguson and being coached up.

by Matty I on Apr 7, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe when

henne takes over for penne in game 2 – they can have penne help fergie teach NT to the young guys.

;~()>

by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 7, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Matty

where’s the scouting the draft on the NT, I think this is key to our defense. A stud NT makes the ILB so much better. Having a good push on throwing downs is also important. if we dont get a stud to replace the Ferguson, then we need to improve our inside LB position(AA). Ferguson had a decent year plugging up the middle, but he no Sacks, FF or fumble recoveries.

Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions

by Phintastic on Apr 8, 2009 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A good "Get Us Thinking Post"...

I’m with those to get a Linebacker, especially someone inside.

Crowder is injury prone, just solid and the other inside guy is unspectacular.

Roth is also “OK”, but they need somebody to spell Joey on the other side. By spell I mean take some pressure off him, keeping the offenses guessing where the pressure will come from.

Then those “just enough” corners get some help from this pressure on the offense and the quarterback.

by Alpha6 on Apr 7, 2009 10:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ok - maybe i'm developing a man crush

but down to down at the end of the season Roth was the best LB on the team.

go back and look at the b-more game… they didn’t run any place near roth. I just don’t know if they would do better moving him inside or continue letting him shut down that side on first and second down. yes his coverage skill do need some improvement – but i’m not sure there is an above average cover guy in the LB core??

by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 7, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roth was solid.

He was a DE convert in his first year as an OLB in a 3-4 system. He had the same numbers (sacks and FF) as Jason Taylor did in his rookie season as a DE in a 4-3. I think he’s going to be a stud this year.

by joel311 on Apr 8, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like our LBs

but I could still see them take the right guy in the 2nd or later, too many good LBs is nice problem to have:>)

"your not even a human being, your a media person" -Micky Knox-
Creator of the(pie in the sky) trade up and "draft B. J. Raji" bandwagon

by uncle finster on Apr 7, 2009 11:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Iam with ya

I thank for the most part our LB are good enough for this year if wake is even half as good as he was in the CFl he should spell Porter perfectly which will give him the rest he needs and let him stay dominate through the whole season which would keep everybody else doing better and Roth this will be his second year and iam sorry to say but i became very impressed wit him he was great against the run and his pass coverage needs work but he did start to improve there towards the end of the year and he can only get better from here on out excepially wit our coaches and how the teach these guys he will be much improved in our system and will be a much better pass coverage guy i and adeyole was one of the only LB that made any impact plays besides porter he got 2 pics and was solid for the rest of the season i thought not great but was solid if anything i thank we could use a impact ILB to learn from CC and AA and spell them both and learn the ropes so peace for now!!!!

by MF_34 on Apr 7, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

with

a solid performance from the outside LBs(Peazy, Roth and Wake), 10 sacks each, that would be downright nasty……Roth could have a standout year this year with 1 year under his belt.

Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions

by Phintastic on Apr 8, 2009 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Line Backer Corps

Hey Nicky!!

You weren’t too happy with my last comments about your “bracket”, but I have to admit your analysis this time was to the point and informative.

However; IMO we should be cautious about thinking that Matt Roth will continue as a starter at the OLB position. Also, our depth at the LB positions overall was very weak; especially in the Pass Defense phase.

Akin was the only LB to notch an interception last season and this is totally unacceptable as a Group!! Also, two QBs ran for TDs up the middle and again this is totally unacceptable especially with 2 – count ’em 2 ILBs!!

If there was some way to find a way to select both Larry English (OLB/DE) and Darry Beckwith (ILB) in the same Draft then I think we will have gone a long way in securing our Defense way into the future!!

NUFF SAID!!

Lets Kick Butt Dolphins!!

by BurlyDude72 on Apr 8, 2009 1:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if english and beckwith slip to the fourth and fifth round that would be great

Just one man's opinion.
The defending AFC Champions Miami Dolphins chose Marino with the 27th pick in the NFL draft.....
Founding member of the 2nd round draft of NT Ron Brace, 6'3", 330, benchx225:32 bandwagon
Founding member of the 3rd round draft of OG Herman Johnson, 6'7", 350, 36.5" arms bandwagon

by hwyatt3 on Apr 8, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmm

Creator of the "Draft Darius Butler" truth train.

Jailbird is free to spread his wings (don't get banned X)

by cbdolphin on Apr 8, 2009 3:17 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well i just saw on the tv the dolphins worked out

rey maualuga yesterday doesn’t mean they are going to trade up and get him but it doesn’t hurt for them to look!

here kitty kitty kitty BANG!

by bryankstro on Apr 8, 2009 7:15 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

he's

would defintely be one pieces of the puzzle. Porter trade? Then pick up MauMau and English. Get younger and save some $$ to boot.

Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions

by Phintastic on Apr 8, 2009 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think we take a LB until 2nd round...

The only way we take an LB first round is if Mau Mau drops to us. Maybe if Matthews drops also. More than likely Sintim, and English will be available by our 44th pick, and may even fall to our 56th pick.

25th pick - CB Vontae Davis
44th pick - LB Clint Sintim
56th pick - DT Ron Brace

Creator of the "John Philips Bandwagon"

by Heater OsE on Apr 8, 2009 7:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Inside early, Strong Side Late

The area of concern I can see is ILB, as has been noted above neither of the starters is great and the back up isn’t exactly rocking either. We can somebody who can learn the ropes behind two experienced players, but jump in if either is injured.
Weak side, with Joey, Cameron and Erik then I think we are set for the season barring major injury.
At Strong side, Roth is solid, but the other two are flaky and as such we can get somebody in day 2 who is a bit of a project and later in the season can move up the spot rotation order.

by DickDevil on Apr 8, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We could still use an OLB

If not in the first, we could get a a guy like Stintim or English in the second.

"How can I blame you
When it's me I can't forgive?"

-From the Unforgiven III off of Death Magnetic

by Patssuck456 on Apr 8, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I dont think it is our top priority I would say that belongs to corner but I think we need another guy to play inside I think we look fine outside as of now

I say in the later rounds pick up a guy like Victor Butler or Phillip Hunt I dont think we need to rush for this spot

Ahhhh Ta Ta Ta Ta Bye Bye Foy518

by Foy on Apr 8, 2009 1:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If the best player available at 25 is an OLB-

then take him IMO. Its such an impact position- I think we’ve seen clearly that a good pass rush can turn your pass D up a notch.

Not just that though, but I think multiple sacks and QB knockdowns can really change the complexion of a game and help get some of the ‘intangibles’ (morale, the crowd, focus, etc) in your favor- maybe a bit more than an INT does because of the physicality involved versus the INT.

Winner of the 2009 Bill Parcells Award.
Less Lonely Leader of the Percy Harvin Bandwagon.

by GatorPhan on Apr 8, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree

We have guys that prove they can play OLB for now and we have promising young players behind them. The same can’t be said for corner.

by fins72marino420 on Apr 8, 2009 5:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another same ole

all this talk of wr and cb at 25 won’t happen unless every target lb is gone. Whether Ilb or OLB that will be the choice and even if all 25 worthy lbs are gone they look to trade down and grab Barwin. Barwin is more sought after then Sintim. Guys are going up and down draft we will get a chance at a top flight lb for our first pick the next 2 picks could be both CBs if falls that way and I have seen Sintim projected at ILB by some. First day could be either/or both Cb and LB have multible picks. 2 cbs and 2 lbs on day one? Very possible

25th pick - Clay Mathews LB USC
44th pick - Alphonso Smith cb Wake Forest
56th pick - Clint Sintim LB Virginia
86th pick - Fili Moala DT USC

by Blaze453 on Apr 9, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why is this worth a first round draft pick

If people are so confident in matt roth, plus we have joey porter on the otherside, and cam wake to back him up

Ted Ginn is the man.

by topspin on Apr 9, 2009 4:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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