Oddball Offseason Ideas
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 13, 2009 12:53 AM EDT
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PrintWith 2 weeks left till the draft, I feel like we've pretty much beaten the probable scenarios into the ground. Should we draft a Cornerback first, or a Linebacker? Perhaps a Receiver? How many Corners do we actually need? When should we take a Nose Tackle? What about the O-Line? Jason Taylor anyone? However, I think there's still quite a few not-so-probable ideas that, either nobody's thinking of them, or nobody's willing to bring them up. Some of them have been brought up, and then shot down, or never really considered. Some of them have been debated on and off throughout the offseason, but have never really gained steam as a viable option.
Now, most of these have no information behind them, and there's absolutely no indication they've even been considered by the team, but we as fans have a duty to talk about anything and everything involving our team, from the supposedly certain (we'll draft a corner) to the completely ridiculous (trade Yeremiah Bell?). I'm anxious to see how many of you are completely attached to our players, which of you have open minds about improving the team, and which of you think I'm a complete idiot (don't all raise your hands at once..).
Oddball Scenario #1
Trade Chad Pennington for Draft Picks: This one has been debated by a few people, but most don't even want to think about a Dolphins team without CP10. The biggest sticking point in these arguments are where the future lies. Many people believe that, since Henne has been anointed the QB of the Future for 2010, that Pennington's been used up, and we might as well get Henne a full year of experience before putting him in charge of a playoff team. Others feel that Pennington brought us to the playoffs last year, and with an improved defense and healthy weapons on offense, can get us a Super Bowl within the next two years.
But, if by trading Pennington, you can get the necessary draft picks to improve that defense and add some weapons, and you can accelerate Henne's development by giving him 16 games of experience, wouldn't that be the best of worlds? By bringing in even more talent, plus having an experienced QB with all the tools in the shed going into the 2010 season, I believe we would be in a prime situation to make a run for a title, not only that season, but for multiple seasons beyond.
However, even if you do get some quality draft picks, there's no guarantee the team is prepared for a rookie QB to take his lumps, and there's the chance that Henne could be ruined by thrusting him into action too early. Pennington is a good QB, and he helped the development of many of our guys last season with his steady hand and leadership, and the team may still need that steady hand in it's second year of the rebuild.
Are you For or Against dealing Pennington?
Oddball Scenario #2
Trade Joey Porter for Draft Picks: This was brought up in the weeks following the playoff loss, and pretty much lost all steam as the offseason progressed. I think it's something that can be an option, because his value most likely won't ever be this high again. Coming off a 17.5 sack season, and with more and more teams switching to a 3-4 scheme, Porter could fetch a decent haul in a trade, especially for a team that is staring at a defense with NO pass-rushing options and various other needs (KC, Cleveland).
I think that by trading Porter, we would have the opportunity to add more talent the roster with the picks we acquire, as well as allow us to justify taking a Rush LB in the first round, where there should be quite a few good options. It would also open the door for Cam Wake to play his way into the position and gain some playing experience if he's gonna be "the guy" at that position. Like I said before, Porter's value will never be higher, so it's a classic "sell high" scenario. I'm a firm believer that it's better to trade a guy a year too early than a year too late, and it may be too late to get anything of value for Porter after this year.
However, the defense really lacks any sort of pass rush outside of JP, and trading him away doesn't mean we'll automatically fill in the position with another quality player. Wake is still an unknown, and will take some time to learn the position, and it's tough to count on a rookie to be the playmaking force in a defense right away. Porter is the emotional leader of the team, and we should squeeze every bit of intensity and leadership out of him before replacing him.
So, would you be open to the idea of trading Porter?
Oddball Scenario #3
Trade Yeremiah Bell for Draft Picks: Settle down people, it's for discussion, not an endorsment. But this is something I haven't seen brought up at all, and the pros and cons have been flying around my head for a couple days. Obviously, he's a fan favorite here, and he was an integral part of our playoff run last year, making big tackles and deflections to save some wins, and being a stabilizing force in very mediocre secondary. But Bell is also 31 years old, and has a history of injuries.
The case for trading him is a simple one. We signed Gibril Wilson to play FS, but I believe, and I'm not the only one, that his best position is SS. He's as good an option as any to step into Bell's spot and perform up to par, and we would then be able to go out and get a true playmaker at the FS spot. Bell is another guy who's value will probably never be higher, because he's coming off a full season, and he's over 30. He would've been a hot commodity in Free Agency had we not re-signed him, so it shouldn't be difficult to envision getting a good haul in a trade.
However, the defense is much, much better with him on the field, and pairing him with Wilson gives us one of the more terrifying safety duo's in the league. If he can stay healthy, he's one of the better SS's in the NFL, and it'd be foolish to create another hole in the secondary when there's already 1 1/2 (Will Allen needs to be replaced soon) there now. Bell has some years left, and we'll be able to draft a replacement late in the draft and groom him for a couple years to take over.
Is trading YBell open for consideration?
My Take: I think that trading Pennington is an intriguing idea, but I'm on the fence. I like the idea of getting extra picks, especially if we can land a first day selection, because that just helps us add more talent, but there's always the "what-if?" factor behind Henne, and I'd like to be insured for that.
I'm open to trading Porter, because he definitely hit a wall last year, and I think that signalled a down turn to his career. I believe we can replace him with Wake and/or a high draft pick at that position, and I think this is the last year we would be able to get anything of value for him.
I don't want to trade Bell at this point. I think next year, if we have the ability to get a Taylor Mays or Eric Berry or Major Wright in the draft, then dealing Bell for extra picks and moving GWilson back to SS would be a good option. But that all depends on how Wilson/Bell play this year. If our safety duo is awesome, then just leave it alone and draft some future replacements to groom.
There's a bunch of other ideas floating around that have gotten very little play, so I may do a Part 2 of this post if it's well-received. I mean, I didn't even bring up trading Ronnie, Vernon Carey, trading up in the draft, or moving Ginn to defense :-)
Discuss away..
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Very interesting....
I agree with trading players to get draft picks, but not the guys mentioned here…The reason is that they brought an identity to this team that it has been lacking for all the years that we didn’t go to the playoffs…Also Joey is the leader of the defense, Chad is the leader of the offense and i think it sends a bad message that after a pro-bowl year you are likely to be traded cause your value is high…
maybe not "be interested in" but consider
thats more accurate
by dolfanstanley on Apr 13, 2009 2:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Im about to begin reading this BUT
WHY EVEN ENCOURAGING CP10 “DEBATE” (MORE LIKE USELESS SPECULATION THAT LEADS NOWHERE) this only generates division and people bitch slapping other people across the face
but all kidding aside (i was not really kidding though)
thinking long term, the CP10 trade does make sense, if you are giving Henne the reins next season and we are reconstructing this team through the draft of course we could use a good extra 2nd rounder instead of a guy who will be gone in 2010- NOT
1- Keeping CP10 allows us to do 2 things
a- Allow Henne to learn from one of the best students of the game
b- give Henne another year to mature ( a la Rutgers [that one is for you Finsx] )
2- The question is "what is more valuable for us as a team building for the future, a guy who will no longer be starting for us next season, or a first day pick to get someone in the draft thinking long term?
Well, surprisingly, my answer would be option a, why? CP10´s role in our young WR´s development is key. Like his teammates have said (those guys running around on the field with him), he is like a coach who can actually play with them and teach them the ropes first hand. He will singlehandedly help our young O-Line develop because he know how to move them around before the snap and not get sacked a thousand times like most first year QB´s do and the o-line would play under much less pressure than with Henne.
oh also not to say the "what if factor behind Henne" (Go to my post about
possibilities of succes for a 2nd round QB and it will scar the hell out of you). Move Ginn?? That is not a bad idea at all, specially now that more teams are using the spread offense which has the potential to absolutely destroy a defense like ours who has 2 safeties who couldnt chase down a fast WR down the field if their life depended on it. Imagine for example Ginn being given the assignment to “shadow” Randy Moss along with a CB, that´d be awesome in my opinion.
Good Stuff Nicky
-Why rush to bring in Henne??? We probably wouldnt get anything higher then a 2nd rounder….ill lean toward us netting only a 3rd round for CP10.
-A Joey Porter draft day trade wouldnt shock me nor would it dissapoint me. He did “hit that wall” and it wasnt a fluke. Maybe a 2nd rounder with a 4th for good measure.
-HOPEFULLY not…Bell IS our leader and best playmaker at this point.
How about a Matt Roth trade…..would any of you be upset with a 3rd rounder in return?
I say
give Roth another year. Since its a new position he deserves the chance. Maybe that 5 sacks turns to 10-12 sacks this year.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
Scenario 2
this could be a hit to the morale of the veterans, but i would be willing to do this if we could get an additional 2nd or possibly trade our 1st and 56th w/ porter and get a higher 1st and higher 2nd. Possibly get MauMau/BJ and maybe a Barwin with the 2nd. Get the younger guys for major SB runs for the next 4-6 years.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
heck with Porters
salary we could pay all of our draft picks and possibly pick Taylor back up.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
Trade 'em all, depending on the offer.
If CP goes, we get started trying to really solve our QB problem. If we get picks for Porter, we could turn around and sign JT and still develop our young guys. Bell is the only guy I would feel a little bad about trading, but he has an injury history, and plays SS. Wilson also can play either position and we could pick up a veteran S and draft a someone.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 13, 2009 11:16 AM EDT reply actions
that's kinda how I feel
if the deal is right, I think a case can be made to deal all these guys..
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 13, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
that's because you are highly intelligent
and are able to divest yourself of emotional attachments to particular players.
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 13, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
why thank you sir
I’d say the same to you, but I’m afraid I’ll screw up halfway through all those big words lol
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 13, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Most underrated quality a diehard fan can own
and particularly effective for following the front office’s decisions with an unbiased eye.
Lefty, you devoid of emotions like myself?
Haha, messin’.
by Dave.Phuller on Apr 13, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Penne Now
while you can still get something for him. He is gone after this season. His contract is up and he has already been told that he is not starting in ’10. He will want to go to a team where he will at least be given a chance to compete for the starting QB role.
Also, his value could not be higher, coming off a successful ’08. Another thing to remember is that Penne has never started every game for 2 straight years, so he is likely to be injured this year.
I am of the opinion that you trade this guy while you can get something for him. A 2nd or a 3rd is still a lot better than nothing in ’10, when he leaves via free agency.
I have to agree
I’m just not sold on the fact that any of these teams would give up even a 3rd rounder for Pennington knowing full well that they would have to pay him after last season, AND give up a relatively high draft pick for a what..32-year-old QB? The offense would really have to be tailored to fit Pennington’s skills (or lack thereof, referring to his arm strength) for a team to be willing to take that risk on him, and said team would also have to believe they’d be playing for a Super Bowl this year or the next.
Minnesota already traded for Sage..and forgive me if I’m wrong but they appear to be the only team really just a solid signal-caller away from competing. That’s not to say Sage is solid, nor will he bring them to the playoffs. But I just don’t see them dishing out another pick this year to get another QB when neither of the ones they brought in are even long-term solutions.
As for the Joey Porter trade idea..I think I’d take it in a heartbeat if the offer was right, as well. 2nd and 4th sounds like a deal and a half to me, considering JT isn’t terribly older and was still producing at a fairly high level before we let go of him for a 2nd.
Wouldn’t want to trade Bell unless we got a similar offer..a 2nd would be just fine. Maybe a 3rd and a 4th or something. Other than that. no way. Play maker, leader in the secondary, and he got hurt during his career (which, yes, means he’s “injury-prone”, but also means he hasn’t taken or dished out the same amount of hits as your average 31-year-old, akin to Ricky’s being out of the league for some time and enduring less of a pounding than another RB his age might). I think he has quite a bit enough left in the tank to be a near-dominant strong safety until his contract expires, and with our conditioning program, he’ll be fine. I just doubt we’d get the same value in terms of where we see him and where other GMs do.
It’ll be interesting to see what else you have up your sleeve, Nicky..
by Dave.Phuller on Apr 13, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
lol thanks for reading guys
I have a bit more, and the next part should be a little more oddball than this one.
And I think you’re right that it all depends on value, but I think we could get good value for all these guys, it just may not be enough to part with them. I believe we could get a 2nd for Pennington from a few teams, because while, like you said, only Minnesota is really a QB away from competing, there are teams that may feel they are a QB and a draft, or a QB and a FA away from being legit, as well some rebuilding teams that may want a vet until they find a future QB (like what we did last year).
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 13, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
geez, all three of you guys are very intelligent.
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 13, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Very fair point on the QB and a draft thing, Nicky
to which I agree (like I usually do with what you come out with). It’s also necessary to mention that your Miami value vs Trade Partner value point is a good one. We might get fair market value for them, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s entirely worth dealing the players for said picks because of what they mean to us beyond the “fair” market value.
Lefty, we get it from you ;) haha
by Dave.Phuller on Apr 13, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
sounds like a winner
like the way you think…
just don’t think a 2nd is possible for the noodle.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Good post, Nicky.
My take on your three ideas:
-I think that trading CP away is too risky right now. After all, there’s a good chance that Beck won’t be in Miami by camp. And what happens if Henne was to get hurt in August? I don’t like the idea of taking the risk of opening up the season with god knows who at the QB spot. Let’s keep Pennington and see what happens. After all, I don’t think we’d even get a day on pick for him so it probably isn’t worth it.
-As somebody said above, I think trading Porter is a risky proposition more so because of what he means to the locker room and the message that would be sent to the players rather than his actual on-field performance. He’s probably on the downside of his career. But we already cut Vonnie Holliday loose. I don’t know if it’s worth the risk of the players losing trust in the team. But, with all said that, it would be hard to pass up a 2nd round pick for Porter if somebody was to offer one.
-I don’t think there’s any point in trading Bell. I don’t think he would bring us good value in return because of his age and his injury history. At this point, he’s far more valuable to this team than he would be to other teams. And the fact that we just re-signed Bell means we’d be crazy to now suddenly trade him.
As to the QB question
I think that if you trade CP, that would preclude trading Beck. And the only reason to do it this way is because Beck is cheaper, has some measure of potential, and would not fetch as much in trade.
If you trade CP, you go to camp with Henne, Beck, and one more guy you probably grab in the draft.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 13, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
well you
could trade CP and pick up a vet to back him up…. now a Losman doesn’t have CP’s track record but he’s younger and has more physical talent and would be a good back up that can be gotten cheaply after the draft… so there is no excuse not to trade a CP if washington is putting up a 2nd or 3rd…
as to the other trades – i don’t think they are possible with the cap hit the team would take.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting Thoughts
Unfortunately, all of those players will give you more value on the field. None of those players will net you a high draft pick. There is no way you’d get value for these players. Mostly because there really is no market for them.
#13
there is
always a chance an Owner will do a deal to get more fans in the seats. How about trading with the Redskins again. Our #56 w Porter for pick #13?
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
Porter not really a good fit for the Skins.
For us that would be a great deal. But the Skins would never do it. As crazy as Snyder is I don’t see them interested in Joey.
More value on the field
for one year in the case of Penne. If the phins are committed to Henne in ‘10 and Penne is leaving after this year, wouldn’t a trade for anything be better than losing him in FA and getting nothing for him? Even if it is a 4th or a 5th round pick? I think it is. Why let a commodity go for nothing when you can get something, even if it is marginal, for him.
This is the part that the front office has to evaluate. If a player (Penne, Porter, Bell, whoever) is deemed not to be part of a superbowl / championship team, then get rid of that player for someone who will be. Penne has already been designated this, so trade him and get what you can.
There is more to on the field value then you think
OK trade Pennington for a third round pick if you can get that. What will that player give you on the field in 2009? Will that player make the team? More than likely. We he be a starter at a true impact position? Probably not. Will he provide leadership and mentor younger players? I doubt it. Will he be a long term piece to the puzzle? 50/50 crapshoot. So is this worth throwing away everything you get from Chad in 2009? Chad will mentor Henne and get him ready to be the starter. He will be a leader on the field at the most important position. He will help us win games. He allows us to evaluate other players, i.e. Davon Bess, Greg Camarillo. So its not just a matter of well he’s not our future so lets get rid of him. He is an important part of the plan for this team to get to championship caliber.
Question about Pennington.
If he is so good a mentor to young QB’s, why isn’t Kellen Clemens a better QB? Clemens was drafted in the 2nd round of 2006 (49th overall). Clemens became a starter when Penne got injured. Shouldn’t Penne have improved Clemens play drasically by mentoring him while he was injured in ’07?
I don’t blame Pennington for Clemens sucking. I blame Clemens. Just like if Henne succeeds it will have nothing to do with Pennington’s mentoring and everything to do with Henne being good. If Henne sucks, are we going to blame Pennington for not being a better leader or teacher or mentor? Of course not. Henne will suck because he sucks not because of anything Pennington did or did not do.
That is why, IMO, you trade him while you can get something for him. Otherwise, you lose him via FA and get nothing.
I
well there are those (cough/cough)
rumors that chad – stabbed clemens in the back and divided the team, which i’m sure didn’t help kellen build confidence….
but as always – the players play is a reflection of the player and the coaching staff…
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Mentor question
Being a mentor is a two way street. Perhaps Clemens didn’t want to be mentored. Perhaps he just wanted to be the starter and not take the back seat to Chad. Who knows? But we do know that Henne is following Chad around like a little puppy, learning everything he can. Henne knows the plan and is sticking to it. Learn as much from Chad P as you can until its your turn to take it over.
Plus, is there really a market for Chad P? What is the best deal you could get for him?
#13
except that chad
kind of did the same song and dance with KC that he’s suppose to be doing with Henne….
and all of that while Kurt Warner was actually being a mentor to Eli….
so there is PR and there is real PR and until CP actually is a mentor when he doesn’t take the field, excuse me for being a little wary of his mentoring….
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
If you dont trade CP and he leaves via FA
you get comp pick. If he stays healthy he gets large contract and chances are we get 3rd or better. Thus to trade CP would mean we get a 2nd plus for him to make worthwhile
25th pick - Clay Mathews LB USC
44th pick - Alphonso Smith cb Wake Forest
56th pick - Clint Sintim LB Virginia
86th pick - Fili Moala DT USC
nope
he’s over 30 – so comp pick max is a 5th rounder
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
didnt know over 30
restricts what u can get
25th pick - Clay Mathews LB USC
44th pick - Alphonso Smith cb Wake Forest
56th pick - Clint Sintim LB Virginia
86th pick - Fili Moala DT USC
no surprise
the only reason i know about is because the steelers where surprised to learn about it this year….
the expected a 3rd rounder for losing fanceca.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Trades
1. Pennington – Only if we get a 1st or 2nd round choice, which I think would be hard because of his past injuries and the trifecta would have to sign off on this as a whole.
2. Porter – If Taylor had never been traded or if we resigned him and he was still playing like he did a few years ago, than yes. Until that’s proven, no. We need a guy that’s definitely going to get us 10+ sacks.
3. Yeremiah – No way in hell!
Matt
I dont see
Beck on your list… i’m sure you’d get a lot more responses if Beck was on your list …I think he would have been a better choice for the Vikings vs Sage.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
but
I would package more to get Curry.. Maybe Porter and Beck and our #56 for KC#3 pick and toss in my left testical since thats of no use to me at age 48.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
could you imagine
Curry, Butler and Nicks as our first 3 picks
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
lol
that’s because a Beck Trade isn’t an Oddball idea. It’s been discussed often, and there was actually rumors around the media world of him being available. I was trying to bring some ideas to light that haven’t really been discussed or considered, and see if they have any legs among the fanbase.
And I’m not so sure Beck is a better choice than Sage for the Vikes. Sage at least has starting experience and has proven himself as at the very least a competent backup (and he can fly!)…
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 13, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The way I see it
Chad pennington is valuable to the dolphins in more ways then you can imagine, and I for one am against a trade for at least one more year and yes I am aware his contract is up after this year.
Not only is Henne learning behind one of the best leaders in the NFL, but CP10 is also top five in fottball IQ at his position if you ask me, his time as our signal caller is not only crucial as part of Henne’s growth but also as part of our offense growth as a whole. Pennington makes everyone on our offense better teaching them leadership and what it takes to win like staying after practice and runnning plays over and over untill they get it right, it’s things like that that make good ones great.
As far as Porter goes the beauty of having someone like him is that you can draft some one and have time to groom them behind one of the greats. The tricky thing with OLB in a 3-4 defense is that out side of Virginia tech no one really runs a 3-4 defense in college, so unless we draft Clint Sintim any one else we bring in would probably need some time to learn the position ,and like I sais before who better to learn from than JP. And before you all say then let’s draft Sintim, just because he played the position well in college does’nt automatically translate to the NFL.
On the topic of Bell,Nicky you read my mind , you know what go ahead and sign me up for THE TAYLOR MAYS BAND WAGON LOL.
where do you think he would
have gone in this draft if he opted out of his senior year? I’m not sure why you take the chance if you think you go top 10.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
Any where from from Seatle and up really
Not that I think that Seatle would be likely but would have been possible. Mays is basically your hard hitting strike fear in the heart of your oppenets, who has been compared to Sean taylor (R.I.P) who I believe was drafted 5 or 6 by the redskins. Cleveland, Raiders even though they have Huff you know how Al Davis is, like I said he would have a bunch of ineterst. I’m actually glad he did’nt come out this year cause with the way our schedule looks we may have a chance at drafting him next year. As for why he did’nt come out, his father is a former NFL player I think he played DT in the 70’s for washington and some other teams, and I think I read an article that basically said his father told him that the NFL is’nt goin anywhere but you can never go back to your senior year of college, as well as saying stay and get your degree. I like someone who is’nt money driven and sees the benefit of staying in scool, and barring any freakish injury I dont see his draft staus for next year taking a hit….
thats taking a big
risk at getting injured in his senior year and never getting that 10mil payday.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
Scenario 1: Great idea for the 2010 offseason. I want to see a more gradual initiation of Henne into the first-team offense than throwing him to the wolves his second year.
Scenario 2: Great idea for right now, especially if we re-sign JT and can get a good young player or a draft pick here. I love JPeezy, but we’re 2-3 years away from being a consistent power, which is just when he’ll be retiring. Might as well get value for him now.
Scenario 3: Terrible idea. Secondary is the weakest part of our team. We can’t afford to lose Bell.
How about this scenario: Trade Ginn and a 2nd round pick for Anquan Boldin? Ginn will be a very good 2nd or slot receiver for a long time, but he’s not a primary threat. Either Camarillo or Bess can also be reliable in the slot. I think Arizona would jump at switching Fitzgerald-Boldin-Breaston with Fitzgerald-Breaston-Ginn plus a second round pick and we would finally have a primary target.
WOW
Trading CP10 is so far out to Jupiter…i’ll just say NO and move on.
Trading Bell is so far out to Mars…i’ll just say NO…and we just signed him and passed on other free agents/he was our leading tackler…so DOUBLE NO.
Trading Joey Porter for 2 nice picks would make sense. He isnt a QB and he wont be here when we really get good and need him…why not bring in 2 1st day picks that WILL BE? Porter is a beast…but he hit a wall that had zero give last season. Im down to get out under that big contract while we still can get something for him at the same time/
The Dolphins and Heat are so similar to me….in that they are planning very nicely for a 2010-2011 dominance…so putting anything in the bank for those years makes sense…because barring a complete miracle neither will be world beaters next season. If this regime drafts like they did last year…get me a pick for ANYONE!!!!
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009
2-Time Matty Award Winner
well both of those aren't exactly "out to Jupiter"
we’ve seen these guys trade/cut Icons and Veteran Leaders, so it shouldn’t be out of the question. So please, don’t “Just Say NO,” give a reason why you think it’s a bad idea, other than CP10’s oh-so-lickable elbow :-)
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 13, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
We NEED CP10 and Bell.... nyet on scenario 1 & 3
Trading JP is not an oddball scenario. This should have a two week deadline on it. Get it done. Get young talent. Keep movin. Sign JT while he’s humble. Let’s all have fun again this year.
You have to play this game like somebody just hit your mother with a two-by-four.
-Dan Birdwell
my curiosity was piqued with the trade Pennington idea
but I dont want to see it happen…yet.
"How can I blame you
When it's me I can't forgive?"
-From the Unforgiven III off of Death Magnetic
Lions logo post.......
Nicky had to go ruin everyones fun….he said the “m” word…and the post blew itself up….that and people trying to post a pic 15 times without success doomed that post.
now Nicky….the THREAT BOX!!!!!
You have been warned! Future use of the “m” word will cause a karate chop to the throat. Expect a knock on ur door by a man in a white suit and black sunglasses.
Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 2009
2-Time Matty Award Winner
dude
there’s NO way that me just saying the words “Mock Draft” ruined that post lol
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 14, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i would have to say the only scwnario that is reasonable is the trading of J Peezy for draft picks. I say a 1st and 4th or 2nd and 3rd. I mean his stock is at an all time high. And he could be the one piece missing in a team that could use rushers (Arizona). At the end of the season he got, i think like one sack in the last 3 games. Not sure if that says he fizled out in the end, or the whole NFl realized the rest of our LB corps was suspect. I say trade him get some good picks and move on. To be honest I like the guy but U think we got him too late in the game (C/M Connection). I’d like to see our younger guys step up. Also trading CP is not an option because he is vital to not only the development of our WR’s but to Jr as well. Henne still has to learn a few more things. Ease him in so he doesn’t get the Carr syndrome. He is stuck to Penne like a fly to crap. he is always at his meetings and is always throwing in practice. Especially to London (connection, maybe). And gettin rid of Bell, when I read that I threw up in my mouth a little, but I’m ok. He is the only good player we have in the secondary. For now. He just hit his prime, so i say we keep him for at least two more years. I mean we got rid of Patrick Surtain and Sam Madison. And that was one hell of a tandem. So I am all for getting more picks, but J Peezy is the only one who is slightly expendable.
dude, no one in their right mind is going to give up a 1st for JP
much less a 1st plus something else. he’s only going to play another year or so.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 13, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah baby
get me a first for some pasta -- yum yum --
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
i'd do that deal
Az wouldn’t . =)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 16, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
phins wouldn't do it either
but I would….
granted they’d have to cut CP & RB to pay for the deal….
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 16, 2009 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
CP10 Traded??
I know I’m just a fan, but trading CP10 is an absolutely rediculous idea!! I think Pennington is a long term Dolphin. Yes, he will be the QB for this coming season, but he may just get injured and Chad Henne steps in – the typical scenario!!
However; Chad P will accept the job as mentor and coach. If fact Chad P is the only QB that anyone knows of that works extra sessions with his receivers and OL!!
I predict that Chad P will become the Fins QB Coach and later Offensive Coordinator – the turnaround happened because of players like Chad Pennington – let him work his magic one more season and then he backs up the future!!
Lets Kick Butt Dolphins!!
I think I sense a draft
"your not even a human being, your a media person" -Micky Knox-
Creator of the(pie in the sky) trade up and "draft B. J. Raji" bandwagon
Just read this at the Phins site
“Pennington provides fun and games for kids in need”
Who the hell trades a player that provides fun and games for kids in need damn it??? How dare you…. I feel like I dont even know you….. you are dead to me. bozo
ONE THING!!
I havent read all the comments yet but i will go and read them in a sec but if we dont sign CP this year or trade him and if he plays like he did last year or better or slighty worse we would get a comensary pick for him as long as the rule applies as you guys all know and that pick would be a 3rd at the least yyou lose a starting Probowler Caliber QB you would have to get the highest Comp pick you proably can get iam not sure wat that is but i thought the Pats got a second so let me know if you can answer those questions and hope this hasnt been talked about yet since i havent read all the post yet.
no no no
players over 30??? max out at a 5th rounder ….
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
One More Thing!
IF we trade on of the guys we just sign we take a huge hit on the cap and i saw a page that was dedicated to the dolphins Cap and it shows we already have 13 so million in lost cap space due to trades and cuts thats alot of money we could use
2 of the trades are not possible....
ok – the porter trade is possible but takes an immediate 9 mil plus cap hit… still has 3 years left on his signing bonus – plus any likely obtainable bonus money would be added on to that….
so the team has some cap space to make this move but not that much….
as to Bell – well they just signed him and i believe that the entire contract gets moved into the current contract year?? which IIRC makes his cap number even higher then porters…
so while i wouldn’t have any issue trading any of the players on the list – it’s just not possible to trade either porter or bell and not have to cut some players.
yeah
they do make having fun a bit more difficult….
like i see no reason we can’t trade CP, JP, & YB
to indy for Peyton Manning, Dwight Freeney, & Bob Sanders….
indy would love to do the deal – think of the cap savings….
Plus CP was the MVP runner up!!!! so they’ll get a huge bargin right there.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 14, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
make it so #1
i concur that it would be a win-win for both teams.
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 15, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
hey now
my title is IDEA Man – you have to be the “MAKE IT SO” guy …
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 15, 2009 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
i don’t have that much juice.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 15, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
come on
I heard you can make it rain….
and knowing a little bit bout BP (the indy one) making it rain will be enough.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 15, 2009 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
ROFL
moving Ginn to defense
yeah right – he hits the turf when a seagull shadow flies by -- i’d love to see him try to slow down just about any RB with a head of steam.
LOL LOL
he hits the turf when a seagull shadow flies by
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 14, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Watching Deion
ACT like he was in run support was always pretty funny.
by haildanhenningnow on Apr 14, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think
you can get close to what Penne is truly worth even though his trade value goes down,I just don’t think the pick we would receive would equal his true worth.
As far as JP goes..“the wall” he hit was probably due to not having another good rusher to compliment or spell him so I think he can and will be fine ,with some help , for a few years to come .
by haildanhenningnow on Apr 14, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions
that isn't even my main concern about CP
it’s the question “what is the real value to having him on the team this year?”
And I am asking a sincere question, because the way i see it, having him play this year doesn’t really benefit Henne, since playing time is really what Henne needs now. If the rest of the team was as unsettled as it was at the beginning of last season, I could see keeping Henne on the bench so he doesn’t get killed, but that isn’t the case.
And are we really concerned about having an good backup in case Henne plays and gets hurt? I mean, is this the 72 fins that is on a SB run and needs someone to step in so we don’t ruin the season? No. If we have to put in Beck or some other guy, who is not as reliable as CP but has some upside, so much the better. We are still in rebuilding mode, no matter what people might think. And we better find out who is gonna be playing QB in 2010 this year, or we are going to end up with a complete team minus a big question mark at the most important position.
IMO
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 14, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with everything you just said.
Sitting Henne behind Pennington another year will benefit him, but not NEARLY as much as playing the full season will.
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 14, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
that's because you are very intelligent.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 15, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Don't mind me
while I walk by conspicuously and eves drop on the compliment..
by Dave.Phuller on Apr 15, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
II believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. Most Comments in one Thread- total count = 1,300
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by finsxfactor on Apr 15, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry to break up the love fest guys ;)
but the crux of your argument is this:
since playing time is really what Henne needs now
or
Sitting Henne behind Pennington another year will benefit him, but not NEARLY as much as playing the full season will.
OK- well how exactly did we come to this conclusion? We may think that after sitting for a year, the most valuable thing for him is playing time, but there could be any number of things to work on.
We’ve already been over the surrounding cast- you guys are willing to put your trust in a new center and 2 guards coming off of severe injuries. But besides that- you are assuming:
1.) He has a full grasp of the play book. While Henne may have played in a “pro-style” offense under Lloyd Carr at Michigan- it was pretty antiquated, and severely watered down. Is one year enough for him to have command over the playbook? Perhaps the coaches aren’t comfortable with his knowledge of the offense yet.
2.) He is mechanically sound, injury free, etc. Remember, he spent his last season at Mich. receiving pain killer injections in his shoulder- did this affect his mechanics (like it did Beck)? Maybe they are tweaking his throwing motion, working on his footwork, or any other number of things.
I mean, this list could go on but lunch is almost up- but the fact is, clearly the coaches don’t feel comfortable with him starting out of the gates next season, so he probably still has some learning to do behind the scenes for one reason or another that we can’t see.
Winner of the 2009 Bill Parcells Award.
Less Lonely Leader of the Percy Harvin Bandwagon.
by GatorPhan on Apr 15, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
have to agree
the best way to make sure Henne is always a step away from greatness is to never play him…
or at least until the modern version of JJ’s cowboys takes the field in front of him and then you
really don’t need to play him cause you wouldn’t want him to get hurt right before he reaches retirement age.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 15, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Forgot about Bell..
I DVR’d all the games last year and you could always count on him to be in position and give 100% on every play and it doesn’t take much watching to understand why Hill was expendable but I don’t think you could get what he is worth either because of his age even though I think he can play 3-5 more years
by haildanhenningnow on Apr 14, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
i like Bell
i have always liked his attitude and effort.
i’d still trade him for a 1st if someone offered.
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 14, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I have an idea, but its not odd at all. completely revamp our offense while fillin holes in our defense
II believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. Most Comments in one Thread- total count = 1,300
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For draft day you let me (finsx...hi, hello....have we met?) and Jazzy run the draft
II believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. Most Comments in one Thread- total count = 1,300
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by finsxfactor on Apr 14, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
How we do it
25th overall —> Harvin is selected
Trade 2a and our 5th to move up and grab Kenny Britt
Then Trade 2b and our 4th to snag Hakeem Nicks
Then with our 3rd we grab Macho Harris
Trade ronnie brown for a top 15 pick. Trade down to around 20th and pick up an extra 2nd.
Here we get Vontae Davis and with the 2nd Ron Brace
Lastly we can trade ricky and next years 2nd for the first so we can grab either knowshan moreno or beenie wells (whoever is available)
So overall we will have
Lost- Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, and Second Round selection for 2010 Draft
Gain – Percy Harvin, Kenny Britt, Hakeem Nicks, Vontae Davis, Knowshon Moreno, Macho Harris, Ron Brace, and we still have our 6th and three 7’s.
Those last selections are still going to be discussed by me and Jazzy
Lol
and if you are thinking…Why ronnie brown? why give up a Running back like that? Heres why. We dont need to run lol. We can go 4wr and 5wr for majority of the game. We have a very promising back like knowshon but imagine CP (maybe) and most certainly Chad Henne running an offense with recievers like harvin, ted ginn, kenny britt, hakeem nicks, and camarillo/bess. AMAZING.
plus we pick up 2 cbs (vontae and macho) with our NT in brace.
with 6tha nd three 7th’s we add to our linebacking crew and select best available (maybe even pick up a RB…)
II believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man. Most Comments in one Thread- total count = 1,300
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by finsxfactor on Apr 14, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
only problem with this
is you aren’t getting a top 15 pick for RB – heck the last 28 year old back to hit the trade market (E James) had to be cut since no one came up with the 4th/5th rounder indy wanted.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 15, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
not exactly sure thats true. seeing as coaches and players hold ronnie brown at such high esteem and hes a pro-bowler..
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by finsxfactor on Apr 15, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
um..
Edge was 28/29, and got cut. He was a multiple Pro Bowler and considered one of the better backs in the league.
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 15, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
ronnie is ronnie =)
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by finsxfactor on Apr 15, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
this is why you always lose arguments lol
I don’t care how highly people think of Ronnie Brown, there’s no way you get a top 15 for him..
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 15, 2009 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
i never lose arguements. its just you think you win but thats when you are goin to have a massive coronary
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artichokie...dammit i thought i could resist this time...
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by finsxfactor on Apr 15, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions
splitting hairs
27-28 but whats a year once you get old.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 20, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
my take...
1) no, Give CP10 the reigns one more time, start tossing Henne in there to toughen him up, make the transition nice and gradual.
2) Possibly, depending on the trade. Porter is getting up there with age, but I still think he’s going to do well this season. I’d be up for trading him if we got the right price. 2nd rounder and 3rd or 4th i think would be good, that would give us 3 2nd rounders and 2 3rd rounders if i’m not mistaken. Plenty of talent in the draft to make 3 really nice picks in round 2.
3) hell no. nuff said.
I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change. - Dan Marino
I see two different mindsets here from everyone here..
those who are open minded to the ideas, will consider them, then back up their yes/no stance with reasons…
and those that say NO then leave it at that with no support for why. “We can’t trade CP” isn’t a very valid argument. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just give me a reason why you think you’re right.
I just think it’s very closed-minded to not even consider a deal for any player on the roster. If somebody offers us a 1st rounder for YBell, are you really gonna just slam the phone down and not listen to offers because Bell is the greatest player ever? Of course not.. so why, just in the space of a blog where your comment is as meaningless as everyone elses, would you not at least consider a deal, even for a completely unreasonable price?
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 15, 2009 12:54 PM EDT reply actions
I believe you
have to consider all trades, especially if it’s going to make the team Younger, stronger and faster. Making the Playoffs is doable this year, but we are still rebuilding to 2010 and beyond. Why not get more pieces to that 2010 puzzle if the opportunity exists.
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
this is sad martty
what is wrong with henn. some storys say his arm is good we; are to asoom yes, is his IQ shot? then why are we being held to think he needs another year,if he knows how to play give him some experance this is wishey washey at best, the avg. life exspectency in the nfl is 3-5 years…… my yearly tickets are up this year. now i may buy singles (tickets) or not. i would like to say lets get seats for the next ten years if big ben R. can go in there & take his team to playoffs & flacco can take his team to playoffs in there 1st years, dan M. in only 5 or 6 games setting behind david W.took us to playoffs. whats going on with henn? is the wild cat that hard to learn. i understand that it was invented in the 1900s sometime!!!!!!!!
by wild zion beaver on Apr 20, 2009 1:07 AM EDT reply actions
I'm so confused right now..
who’s Marty?
Who was talking about Henne? And yes, he does have a good arm, it’s not just some stories, it’s fact.
Roethlisberger and Flacco are both on very deep, very talented teams, and Marino may have been the best ever. Every QB is different and every situation is different, so why should we automatically expect greatness from Henne immediately just because a couple other QB’s did it? You do know most rookie QB’s struggle or flop altogether right? If the coaches think he needs more time to develop, then that’s what he needs.
Henne won’t even be the QB of the wildcat…
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 20, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
eh
most of the good ones – don’t really struggle that much… they tend to get better with every game of experience…
the QB’s who sit seem to max out very quickly.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 20, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions
praytell what is
a wild zion beaver?
just gay about finding out….
it sounds exciting.
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 20, 2009 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
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