My two cents on the cornerback debate
by Matty I on Mar 13, 2009 12:15 AM EDT
in 2012 Miami Dolphins News
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PrintOne of the hot topics right now among Dolphin fans is what the Dolphins should do with that 25th overall pick. Some want a pass-rushing outside linebacker. Others, including myself, want a cornerback. Of course, it all depends on how the first 24 picks unfold and who remains on the board when the Dolphins are on the clock. But this debate is picking up steam. So I figured today would be a good day for me to just convey my thoughts on the topic and then leave it open to you guys to debate on as we close out the work week.
What comes first - a consistent pass rush or solid cornerback play?
This seems to be the matter at the heart of the "OLB vs CB" debate. A lot of people want to claim that you do not need great corners if you have a terrific pass rush and can get to the quarterback consistently. Those who believe in that theory will point to the 2008 Pittsburgh Steelers as a great example. And those people can make a very solid argument in their favor.
On the other hand, those who feel it's more important to have great cornerbacks will point to the 2007 Tampa Bay Bucs - the team that ranked first in the NFL in pass defense. That Bucs defense only tallied 33 sacks - which was 16th in the NFL. Clearly, a great pass rush wasn't needed for Tampa to defend the pass successfully. In 2006, the Oakland Raiders led the NFL in pass defense - and only ranked 19th in sacks, with just 34. Yet again, an example that you don't need a great pass rush to successfully defend the pass.
I'd also like to point out that the Cowboys led the NFL in sacks in 2008 - with 59 - but failed to even reach the playoffs. Meanwhile, the Cardinals were 14th in the NFL in sacks and made it tothe Super Bowl.
What does all this mean? Not much - to be honest.
And here's why. You need your defense to have a solid balance of pass rush ability and coverage ability. A great pass rush isn't good enough if you're cornerbacks can't stay with their man for two seconds or so to give the pass rush time to get to the quarterback. Conversely, if you give the opposing QB all day to throw, it will not matter how good your cornerbacks are - they can only cover for so long.
So why am I pulling for a cornerback to be drafted with the 25th overall pick?
Well that's simple for me to answer - pending, of course, on which players are still on the board at #25. It's because I feel that the Dolphins' don't need as much help rushing the passer as they do defending receivers. After all, the Dolphins did finish 8th in the NFL in sacks last season - with 40. Sure - I'm aware that there were times when Miami's pass rush seemed non-existent. But I'm just not convinced that spending the first round pick on a pass-rusher improves this defense enough. What good will a pass rush be if our secondary is unable to cover for at least a second or two? How will getting after Tom Brady help the Dolphins when the Pats go 4 or 5 wide in the shotgun formation and have man-to-man coverage on the outside with their talented receivers? All Brady would need is one second to take the snap and throw.
But there are two more reasons why I think CB is the right move at #25. First - I think that there are a number of solid 3-4 edge rushers who will be available in rounds 2 through 5. And secondly - the Dolphins have at least added Cameron Wake to the mix at OLB. If nothing else, Wake will make a solid 3rd down pass-rushing specialist right off the bat. Meanwhile, the Dolphins have a hole at cornerback following Andre Goodman's departure to Denver. There's no way I'm comfortable with Jason Allen, Nathan Jones, and the recently signed Eric Green as the three cornerbacks competing for the starting job opposite Will Allen.
But there's no "shutdown corner" in this draft, according to Mel Kiper.
Yes, I saw this article about how Kiper doesn't believe there to be an elite cornerback in this draft class. To that I say two things.
First - opinions are like a-holes; everybody has one and most of them stink. So I'm not going to care what just one so-called "expert" believes.
And two - I'm not looking for a "shutdown corner." You don't need a "shutdown corner" to win. And there are only 2 or 3 true "shutdown corners" in the entire league. What the Dolphins need is a solid corner. Those are the kinds of corners you win championships with. And there are a number of cornerbacks that I'm confident will be very solid corners in this league for years to come.
And that, my friends, is why I'll be pulling for a cornerback to be drafted with that 25th overall pick.
Remember to join us on Monday for our live chat with WR Brandon London.
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First - opinions are like butts; everybody has one and most of them stink.
I love that line!
Now mine
BPA
If it’s a cornerback so be it, who ever they take you can bet they will contribute in 09
25th WR – HAKEEM NICKS
44TH TE - KENNY BRITT
56TH OLB - CLINT SINTIM
87TH NT - SAMMIE LEE HILL
by ATS16 on Mar 13, 2009 12:55 AM EDT reply actions
Dolphins' Draft Pick #25
I know that Jason Allen is the much maligned Round 1 pick by Nick Satan, and no one seems to give the guy a chance. However; you have to ask yourself the question, “who do we start on opening day??” A rookie at starting CB or a veteran – pick either of the 3 because the winner in the pre-season competition will win the starting position.
I say we get the best athlete available on the board at #25 and stop worrying about the position to be filled. How many fans realize that our LB Corps only made 2 interceptions during the entire 2008 season and those were made by Akin!!
The next time some enemy WR or RB makes a 5 yard reception I want a LB who can lay that fhwaulker OUT COLD!!!
Lets Kick Butt Dolphins!!
Agree in some ways
Its not like the coaches say Jason Allen Sucks and don’t look at him, he has had a couple years to go out and practice, and play in some games to prove himself. I dunno if he is ever going to crack the starting line up.
I also agree that the Fins take the best player available, there are a lot of LB who have the ability to be great. If one is available at 25 take him, there are a lot of CB’s that will be available in the 2nd round. A lot of starting CB’s in the league have been after the first.
Also Mel Kiper bases his “No shut down corners” based on their 40 time, well it has been announced the clock at the combine, was giving some false readings.
The Patriots Suck
I can't disagree with you Matty
but what I will say is I am not sure there are 3 1st round “caliber” cbs in draft BUT I think there are 6 to 8 second round quality cbs. I would assume drafting 25th you would take the 3 or 4 positions you would draft from, grade the positions with how many top 20 type players at each of these 3 or 4 positions(I say 20 because you look for value at your spot which is 25), rank the “top 20” from your 3 or 4 positions in order of who you think are best. Say using CB, WR, DE/LB what? 2 corners in that mold(?), 3 or 4 wrs(?), 7 or 8 DE/LBs(?). Then take into account which position has the most potential to be your biggest playmaker(LB yes?) This leads me to believe our most likely scenerio of having a chance at a “top 20” pick, at one of our 2, 3, or 4 positions team wishes to address in round 1, is DE/LB. But mostly why I am 95% sure DE/LB will be the pick barring something unforeseen) is:
This team will be built from a defensive stand point period and that means from the inside out :
1) stop the run
2) make the downs predictable
3) rush the passer
4) run the ball
5) field position
6) don’t make mistakes
Though in someways I like your view and reasoning I just don’t think it will happen. :)
Blaze
25th pick - Clay Mathews LB USC
44th pick - Alphonso Smith cb Wake Forest
56th pick - Clint Sintim LB Virginia
86th pick - Fili Moala DT USC
Best Player Available !!!!!!
IMO I think we will draft the best player available … period. I don’t see us going for an OLB or CB if a higher ranked WR, S, ILB or anything like that is avaible.
If the season was to start today I wouldn’t be worried about our CB or OLB position … well Wake is an unknown and Goodman did play better towards the end of the season but was a huge liability during the beginning of the season and I feel like we already have the players who can step up and play in his spot this moment with the extra addition of Wilson at FS
Pick 25 no longer needs to go to a corner.
The signing of Green, while not a major move, brings more veteran depth. I believe another corner needs to be drafted, but that pick might be more likely now at 44 or 56. I think next year CB may be more aggressively pursued during free agency. I also think it might make Sean Smith worth the risk/reward in the 2nd round, if available, to see if he can play corner. I really believe this opens the door for a player like Hakeem Nicks at 25. It also allows more flexibility to trade down knowing that there is at least another body competing at corner. In addressing the pass rush, I really hope they do not draft a LB in rd.1. I really think a player like Conner Barwin in round 2 has as much, or more, potential than other LB’s like Mathews, Laurinaitis, and even Cushing.
I would'nt say that
Will Allen is set to be a free agent after this year and we presently have ZERO CB’s whos ready to step in and fill that role. Name me one please…..we got nothing. Believe me Ima big fan of Nicks, and it wouldn’t put it past me for the FO to take the BPA which could be him at that point in the draft. IMO i hope not because the FO has showed thay can get there WR anywhere in the draft or after for that matter.
I think the phins need to give the CB's safety help...
The Tampa Defense was good against the pass because they didn’t bring the safeties up to support the run. That left them to to concentrate on the passing game and helping out the corners. IMO, that is why the phins need to address the middle of the defense, not the edges.
A kick ass MLB is my pick for #25 (or trade up to get Maualuga). That one pick will allow the phins to stuff the run with the front 7 on defense and allow Bell & Wilson to ball hawk. IMO, that one position greatly improves all aspects of the defense. I also think that that was glaring hole in the defense. The phins MLB was adequate at best last year.
One of the strengths of the phins def. are the safeties. Let them play in support of the CB’s instead of the LB’s. Let them play the pass, not the run.
I think we definitely need to draft a DB high
preferably corner, as that is presently the greatest need, but a rock star FS would be okay too.
The reason? Even if we don’t figure out the defensive backfield this year, we all expect that in year 3 we will be adding the last pieces and working on depth. That means that we need to be looking NOT ONLY for a replacement for Goody, but potentially replacements for W. Allen, Bell, maybe Wilson, as well. Unless you are going to use 1st round picks every year, or acquire high priced FAs, a CB will take two years to develop to the point that you know what you have. So we will probably be picking a guy high, and maybe a mid round guy as well to hope to develop along with the guys we already have.
But all that being said, a NT who could actually collapse the pocket and disrupt the O-line (no diss to Ferguson… he’s solid, but he doesn’t create pressure) would go a long way toward improving our DB play.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 13, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
So is the $64k question really
how good are the Miami Secondary coaches? Does the FO believe they can get Allen going or a draftee up to speed by opening day? Can they light a fire under Green’s jock strap and get him to play up to potential?
As my sig boldly states below, a CB’s (MOORE!) gonna go as the first pick. I think once Matty read that, he became convinced, too. My liege, I shall install your throne (for your comfort) on my bandwagon …
Larry Little and I both wore 66 in our football careers. I think that means something.
I, Tunaflipper, am the creator of the "Draft DJ Moore Bandwagon"
Thank you Matty
I went on Finheaven and blasted Kiper about him saying there are no shutdown corners and said well this is comming from a guy who Said Mike Williams was the best player in the 05 draft,Robert Gallery going to be one of the best LT’S in the game,Ryan Leaf etc and people bashed me and defended this jerk sorry but I was never big on Mel.One guy on the site said well he got the Jake Long pic right and I didnt even see it,I said well dude your blind cuss that was the obvious choice.Anyway I would be happy with a WR,OLB,or a CB at 25 like you said Matty it all depends on who is there.
Ahhhh Ta Ta Ta Ta Bye Bye Foy518
Can't Stand the draft "Gurus"
Can’t Stand McShay or Mayock, I can listen to Mel Kiper, but I do not see eye to eye with him most of the time. He makes better points than McShay or Mayock though, and knows more about each and every player. I can go all day on this topic!
The Patriots Suck
KIper is also pissed that Miami took Jake Long
He says that he isnt that good, sounds like someone is better that their mock draft skillz suck.
"How can I blame you
When it's me I can't forgive?"
-From the Unforgiven III off of Death Magnetic
i totally agree with you matthew
-"I'll weather whatever storm, Make it out without a bruise"
-"Even when winning illogical, losing is still far from optional"
-"Even the greatest gotta suffer sometime"
-"No excuses, No explanations"
by MiamihastheDolphins.... on Mar 13, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
good post matty - Wake is key to remember
maybe i’m biased having watched a lot of CFL (though hating the BC Lions), but i am putting a fair bit of faith into Cameron Wake.
it just doesn’t make sense to go 1st round OLB unless there is one there who the trifecta are absolutely salivating over. Wake played LB in college, i don’t think he should take too much time to pick up the position – his learning curve is easier than what Roth was looking at last year, and they felt comfortable switching him to LB and playing him there after one training camp.
by orandegadsden'shands on Mar 13, 2009 11:57 AM EDT reply actions
Wake
He was awesome in the CFL, unbelievable, and really untouchable in ability in the CFL.
The CFL!!!
Why did he play in the CFL in the first place? The best players in the CFL compared to the NFL is like taking the skinniest girl in fat camp and putting in a swim suit competition. There have been some QB exceptions, but until he shows up on the NFL gridiron I am not sold.
Lets see this light an explosion of back lashes
The Patriots Suck
This is what Im talking about..
you gotta take a good look…the corners we have are NOT championship quality…and i believe NONE will ever be…but they will do for now. We need to draft a young corner that will give us 7-10years of solid playmaking. This should be the guy in 3 years we put on the other teams best wr and say….beat me.
WIll Allen isnt that….Joey Thomas isnt that…Nathan Jones…..no……Eric Green…probally not.
How does Kiper know there isnt a shutdown corner? thats a stupid statement…he cant tell the future.
The 2009 Garo Yepremian Funny Like a Clown Award Winner
The 2009 Ricky Williams Picture Perfect Award Winner
Matty...
I think what needs to be included with the metrics you noted are the run stats for those respective teams.
Let’s recall that Miami had the #4 passing defense in 2007. We might also note that Miami had the #32, as in dead last, run defense.
Part of the problem is how defensive rankings are assigned. Going back to our 2007 Miami example, the Fins gave up just under 189 passing yards per game. Sounds good right?
Except, well, Miami’s yards per attempt as a pass defense were 7.79 – good for second to last, #31 in the entire league.
So was Miami a ‘very good’ or even ‘decent’ pass defense in ’07?
I’d argue no. Teams didn’t need to throw for lots of yards against us as they were almost always ahead from the get go. You can be sure though, that when they did need to throw that they did so with lots of success.
So to use those numbers I think we need to get past just yards allowed and look at yards per attempt which is a more clear indicator.
As for the pick itself – I tend to favor acquiring a good pass rusher over a corner high in the draft. Granted, if your top passing rushers are all off the board then by all means, look at corners.
Pencil me down for a LB – all other things being equal.
yep yep... exactly right
if a team has poor run D, the pass D is gonna look fantastic in terms of yds allowed.
As for me, i think a real beast at NT would be my first preference to improve the QB pressure.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 13, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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