Statistics and Their Relevance to Football
This is going to be a long one.
Sometime around 2005, I was surfing Amazon.com for some football books, and came across something interesting. It was called the "2005 Football Prospectus" written by a group of guys calling themselves the Football Outsiders. I bought the book, read, and thoroughly enjoyed it. They had put together a group of people to study film and record statistics far beyond what the NFL normally records, and came out with two interesting statistical numbers, DVOA and DYAR.
Now, I'm not going to get into what these are, as you can go to their website, www.footballoutsiders.com and read to your hearts content. What I do want to get into, is the effect of these statistics on football, and what statistics really mean to football.
When I saw these statistics, and read this book, I thought it was incredibly profound. It was something new, fresh, and interesting in a world weighed down by tired sports cliches and former-player analysts who still cannot seem to grasp anything about the game beyond the position they played. I thought it was going to change the way we looked at football.
And it did.
Slowly, as FO becomes more popular and more people discover them, you're starting to see people who use these statistics because they are so new and fresh as a way to "fight the man" of the mainstream, and try to break out their own originality. All of a sudden, some of these people think that DVOA and DYAR are the greatest things since sliced bread, and is the be-all-end-all of what defines a good player.
Now, I want to take a second here and make it very clear that GatorPhan and PhinPhan are NOT these kinds of people. Their posts may use statistics heavily, but they are well informed and think beyond the numbers. I do really enjoy reading their posts.
However, it is still a growing fad, and there are plenty of people who are trying to ride in on the coattails of it like they are some kind of football expert because they know how to run a calculator.
So let me get one thing straight with everyone right now. Statistics are not the answer. People have fought and tried for YEARS to make statistics make sense of sports, and to some extent it actually works, especially in baseball. However, in baseball on any given play, there is absolutely no more then 10 players that can POSSIBLY have an effect on the play, and in reality it is very rarely more then 4 (pitcher, batter, fielder, baseman). The pitcher throws the ball either strike or ball, the batter either hits or misses, and if he hits it then someone catches it or doesn't, then makes a throw or misses it. This obviously isn't the full list, but the point is that there is at the very least a finite amount. Because there is such a small number of variables in any given play, statistics works.
That is because statistics is very good with a small number of variables. Coin flips, number of colored M&Ms in a bag, things like that, statistics are very good at. However, the more variables you add into any certain condition, the less accurate statistics are. Anyone who knows anything about statistics will at least agree with this basic fact.
Now consider the average football play. There are 22 players on the field at any time, and any ONE of these players can change the entire dynamic of the play. Each lineman can hold their block or not, and even that can be a grey area depending on if they give the QB 3 or 4 seconds. The QB has options to throw to, each of those options can make or miss the catch, then if they make the catch, they can get more yards. The defensive players either make the right read or they don't, or the safety can fake a move to the inside or he can't. Essentially, you get the point here, there is an INFINITE amount of possible variables on any given football play. There is absolutely no possible way to account for all of those variables.
We also have to look at how each player is being used, the offensive or defensive schemes. For instance, is Larry Fitzgerald necessarily a better WR then Hines Ward? Would Hines be as useful to the Cardinals as Larry is? Would Larry be as useful to the Steelers as Hines is? The answer in both situations is a resounding NO. Hines is a wonderful all-around receiver, in that he makes the high-pressure catches, is a great blocker, and will fight his ass off for every yard. Larry is a great WR as well, don't get me wrong, and there are a lot of things that he does better then Hines does, however, he's not as well rounded. Besides, the point is not whether one is better then the other, rather the point is who does better in the situation they are expected to perform in. By that measure, both receivers are spectacular.
There are a TON of things that happen on any particular play in football that are not recorded at all, yet can have a monstrous effect on the way the play develops. For instance, you guys should all remember Jake Scott, who is in my opinion one of the best safeties to ever play the game, and is certainly one of, if not the, best Dolphins safety ever. He was very good at finding opposing QBs secrets and determining how they read the play. For instance, he figured out that Joe Namath would always watch the Free Safety’s break to read the coverage, and he would take a false first step to fool him. This would throw off Namath’s read, and would lead to bad throws, interceptions, deflections, or tackles that may be credited to other players, but it was Scott’s first step that changed the whole dynamic of the play. There is no statistic to measure that first step.
There is simply too many variables for statistics to really mean anything to the game of football beyond sparking some interesting debate.
Think about it for a second. Ever wonder why there seems to be such a clear divide between people in the NFL, and people out of it? Why coaches always roll their eyes at mentions of statistics? Why GMs worry more about "measurables" and "potential" then college statistics?
Think about every interview with a non-TO or non-Ocho Cinco player you've ever heard when they are asked about statistics and records. 95% of the time you'll hear something like "While it's an honor to be mentioned with (insert the guy who held the record before), i'm not really that worried about, i'm just here to help the team win."
This is because football players and coaches know the reality of the game, and the reality is that there's only two statistics that matter.
Wins and Losses.
This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.
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I am sorry but I have to take issue with this statement:
“Why coaches always roll their eyes at mentions of statistics?”
Many did, and some still do- but good, modern coaches would probably disagree with you.
Coaches today have databases set up that allow them to to call up any play of any opponent, based on down, distance, field position, formation, literally any parameter imaginable. They are then able to take this information and set up probabilities that a team will run certain plays based on certain conditions- to the extent that the week of a game they could probably tell you how often a team ran a play action fake to the FB in the flat on third and short inside the 20 yard line, or how likely a team was to blitz out of a certain formation on 1st down.
I know we all hate Belicheat but you can’t argue with is results- he has a degree in economics and utilizes statistics heavily in his game prep. Jim Schwartz- the outstanding former D coordinator of the Titans and current Lions coach also has a degree in economics and believes strongly in the value of analysis. Urban Meyer- psychology degree (a degree also EXTREMELY heavy on stats) and I’m sure you can read my signature for his view on statistics, and all he has done is win 2 national championships. Good coaches use every tool available to them and that includes stastical analysis.
"They say statistics are for losers, but losers are usually the ones thinking that. . . . Everything we do is analyzed. Is that the bottom line? No. You can't analyze the heart of Tim Tebow." - Urban Meyer
I have a degree in mathematics, and as such, have done a LOT of probability and statistics
And I think we have to make a distinction between the two.
A coach having a database on a team and the plays they un in certain situations is probability. What is the probability that the Colts run a play action pass and throw deep to Marvin Harrison on 3rd and 19?
Now, how often does Marvin Harrison take that long pass and break it for 40+ yards…that’s moving into statistics.
There’s a difference in those statements.
My other two points are:
1 – Yes, statistics have a place in football, but I do agree that some people rely too heavily on statistics as the be all, end all of any debate. Statistics can be used to manipulate any data for any situation:
Who’s the best QB for the Miami Dolphins?
Comp % Yds/Att TD % INT % Sack Rating
67.4 7.7 4.0 1.5 24 97.4
58.3 5.6 0.0 0.0 0 74.0
66.7 13.7 33.3 0.0 1 149.3
Take a look at those stats and tell me who you think gives us the best chance next year. I would say Ronnie Brown (the 3rd QB there) is our best QB based solely on those numbers. CP10 is the first one and Henne is #2 up there.
You always have to take stats with a grain of salt, because the person using them is trying to tell you something and will therefore, weither they want to or not, use stats that back up that claim.
Let me also say that I think, although stats heavy, GatorPhan and PhinPhan aren’t trying to manipulate their audiences, nor are they overly relying on stats. I think they just like to see what the stats how. That’s a different story. If you look at the numers and see what they tell you that’s very different than having an idea and seeing if you can get numbers to match up. Does that make sense?
AND
2 – WHY ARE WE BREAKING INTO STATS VS NON-STATS PEOPLE? This is ridiculous. What purpose does it serve to have multiple groups of fans in here? If you don’t like the stats heavy posts, don’t read them. If you are a stats guy, don’t inundate everyone with stats and how they show you are always right just because someone says they think Beck will be our QB of the future. We are all fans of the same team. I think we can all coexist in this forum together…
Sorry for the rant…
"The dolphin is one of the fastest and smartest creatures of the sea. Dolphins can attack and kill a shark or whale. Sailors say bad luck will come to anyone who harms one of them." - Joe Robbie, Oct 8, 1965 upon announcing the name of the new AFL Miami football team.
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by Mosul_DolFan on Feb 13, 2009 8:59 AM EST up reply actions
No problem- I loved the rant.
I did Mechanical engineering so I straddled the grey realm between applied and theoretical most of the time- but my stats training was basically all applied (quality control, failure rates, prob. of failure based on usage time, etc.). so that was a great clarification.
"They say statistics are for losers, but losers are usually the ones thinking that. . . . Everything we do is analyzed. Is that the bottom line? No. You can't analyze the heart of Tim Tebow." - Urban Meyer
Coaches eyes roll..
Like Mosul mentions below, it all depends on the utilization of stats and how there are presented. Coaches roll their eyes at stats when idiot media monkeys say stuff like: “Your QB threw 3 picks and had a 60 rating he had an bad game, why did you leave him in” The coach knows it wasn’t all his QBs fault its a team game and besides he knows he has no one else better. No coach rolls his eyes when utilizing stats to game prep… their eyes light up.
Manytimes coaches dismiss stats on player attributes. What good is a 6’2 CB that has a 13" verticle. What good is a 4.3 40 when the player is slowed to a 4.7 with pads,,, Like in all businesses decisions are sometimes made to satisfy the owners. Try sneaking a 4.6 WR by Al Davis, even if he’s Larry Fitzgerald. GMs are accountable and if you draft a 6’5 350 DT and he fails, you go get the next one, If you draft a 6’2 280 DT and he fails, you’ll loose your job. That’s like reccomended a small unknown firm over a large popular one to your boss. People have to protect their jobs and its eats coaches alive knowing that they have to turn big and fast guys into football players, rather than making undersized guys professionals. That is why coaches roll their eye mostly… they don’t shop for the ingredients.
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight"
Lyle Alzado
agree
I agree with a lot that was said in this article, but like GatorPhan, the first guy to come to my mind was Jim Shwartz, the new coach of the Lions. He is heavily involved in the use of advanced metrics to judge his players…and he sees them every single day at every single practice.
Also to assume that just because current GMs or coaches dismiss stats means that they are right is patently absurd. Sometimes the way people think about things is just wrong. If you haven’t read Moneyball, please please please, do yourself a favor and do so. Trust me when I say that you do not have to be a baseball fan to enjoy it.
People used to be certain that the world was flat. There are things called paradigm shifts. There are always ways to adapt the way we think about things.
There are plenty of crappy coaches and GMs. It doesn’t make sense to treat what they say as gospel.
Check out my Dolphins site for news and analysis: http://www.phinaticism.blogspot.com
by PhinPhan in MA on Feb 13, 2009 12:28 AM EST reply actions
You cant stat heart
and no data base was going to tell you CP10 was going to be the runner up for MVP this season, or that that late round pick named Tom Brady was going to be a 3 time Super Bowl Champion. I agree with you on a lot of stuff Gator but there are some things you just cant measure.
I don't necessarily disagree with you-
look at my sig? You basically quoted it. Stats are not everything, but to claim they have no place in football, or that successful coaches don’t use them isn’t true.
"They say statistics are for losers, but losers are usually the ones thinking that. . . . Everything we do is analyzed. Is that the bottom line? No. You can't analyze the heart of Tim Tebow." - Urban Meyer
On stats...
Yes they are fairly useful, I am a believer in them. But they can’t be used on everything, such as statistics in baseball there is a much larger sample size which allows for predictions to be made easier.
As with football you get about .1 the games of baseball so you can’t really predict stats from season to season. As well many factors go into football that don’t go into baseball.
I think these stats are more for judging what the players did during the season, not future. They can somewhat be used in the offseason based on like a WR if they have a high DVOA in rushing and receiving that they will be a good multipurpose back.
think about the games though
Yes there are more games in baseball, but a hitter usually only sees 4 or 5 at-bats every game. Most regular starters in baseball, then, see about 500-600 at-bats a season. A starting QB in the NFL will also throw about 400-600 passes a season. So just because there are fewer games, doesn’t mean the sample size is necessarily smaller. There are still plentiful amounts of meaningful plays to go on, and that’s what counts the most.
Check out my Dolphins site for news and analysis: http://www.phinaticism.blogspot.com
by PhinPhan in MA on Feb 13, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
A good arguement- but here is something to consider
The professional game has changed to a point where stats are becoming more and more relevant each year because the individual play is more and more predictable. I feel that the reason is because the athletes are taking on more and more specific “packaged” roles. Despite being the great atheletes they are, to succeed in the NFL these days, you seem to have to find a nitche. Gone are the days of George Blanda and Lou Groza. Few players today do everything, let alone do everything well.
Let’s look at the DL. Up until the mid 80s your DLinemen, and O Lineman, were all of the same mold. Prior to 1960’s they just lined up the toughest SOBs and went to battle, size did not matter. As the league grew bigger and faster ,schemes changed dramatically as we saw “specialization” take form. Huge men were brought in to be 1 gap NTs and 2 gap DTs. Their assignment = do not get move and do not get moved. I.E. Sam Adams.
Other teams/schemes used undersized (beleive that) guys like W Sapp to penetrate, avoid getting caught in the mix and penetrate. Now we seem to be left with two common types of DTs; one that only knows how to exlode, shoot gaps, and create disruption while the other just takes up space. After a few years, these players get so specialized that they loose all need for other skills. Factor in injuries and it really forced them in a box. (Possesion WR like Derrick Mason w/ busted rib, who doesn’t have to open up and get deep- he is still within his specialty)
Tony Siragusa is my perfect example. 2 time HS State Wrestling Champion, kick returner, amazing athlete goes to PITT and succeeds at all things. Pass Rush, Run Stuff, you name it. Tony was not the most powerful guy and wasn’t fast enough to play DE. At 6’2 280 he had to make a major decision to become a Pro- Specialize as a hole-plugger. As he ate himself into “playing shape”, it was harder for him to be moved and easier for him to just “stay put” and keep Ray Lewis free. Can you imagine? You’re a professional athlete and your only job is to “not move”. We’ll he did it better than most and got paid handsomely. Congrats.
The point is. We know what to expect from guys like Tony. A huge difference from Cortez Kennedy, Mean Joe Greene, George Musso…This is apparent in all positions. Guys like Tarkenton could run either way and pass with either hand. To stop Mike Vick, today’s version of a running QB, ghost him with a nickle back and force him to his right. I can make so many examples at all positions. I don’t even want to get into these track athletes playing CB and WR these days.- can’t tackle and can’t take a tackle. With less and less variables from the players, it makes the stats even more relevant. Just look at the success and accuracy of Fanatsy football forecasting and video games. EA sports lets their Madden video game play out the Superbowl eaach year and they were not only correct 5 out of 6 ( they had NE beating GIA) but the scores were very close.
In short, As the stats prove more and more accuarate and each player’s productivity becomes more predictible, coaches are using predictable models to generate mismatches and create opportunities to buck the trends.
Just a thought
Sorry for the length.. back to work..
"I never met a man I didn't want to fight"
Lyle Alzado
good, interesting points
Check out my Dolphins site for news and analysis: http://www.phinaticism.blogspot.com
by PhinPhan in MA on Feb 13, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions

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