I guess I missed the uproar and for the life of me can’t figure why some would actually get upset. I’ve never been a numbers (I deal in colors) guy but certainly know they’re integral to forming conclusions. I have ton of respect for all that can crunch ’em even though reading them sometimes makes me dizzy.
Are people really refusing to come to the site ’cuz of stats!?

I’ve definitely enjoyed and appreciated the articles by GatorPhan and you. Keep ‘em comin’!

Even if it is only a few people, that’s a ridiculous notion: to refuse to read statistical data presented to you because you don’t understand it? Because it’s new to you? Because it requires you to view the game in a new light, one in which you’ve never done so?

I come to this site daily..well, more like hourly because of the point in time in the NFL season we’re in. I want to see statistical data telling me why we should draft player A in April, or why UFA B is no better than the player we’ve already got on our roster.

Hell, it’s statistics that were based on elite wide receiver groups that was posted about Brandon London that made me realize why we kept him in the first place and why I should be excited about his future with the team.

I don’t know if I speak for everyone who still comes, but I would personally like to thank you and the rest of the Phinsider columnists for putting such hard work into this site for Dolphins fans like myself to fully enjoy and help pass the time during a long off season.

hey you know I am not a big numbers guy in the tratidional sense. I dont crunch em or really go looking for them much. However I love the fact that I get EVERYTHING I need from this site. With guys like you and Gator I get some of everything and anything I dont find I can go and look up on my own (if I really wanted to) but I just dont have to most of the time because of number geeks like you! Hail hail to the number geeks! LOL Keep up the good work! I read this site like a blind man at a wet tee-shirt contest and I gotta say I do love it! Yall take the dry unemotional statistics and present it in a form that allows us to draw our own conclusions. this is a good thing!

no need to justify your numbers, they are what makes your blogs and insight unique and worth checking. i’ve always wondered where you get all the stats from. makes this site worth checking in on all the time as opposed to others, which is why i am here every day.

keep up the good work matty

lol j/k.. I actually do read pretty much everything on here, and what I don’t read doesn’t have anything to do with numbers or not, just sometimes the topic doesn’t fit what I’m looking for.

Don’t stop writing the statistical analysis, because I do think it brings another good perspective to this site. Even if I complain about the stats, I still learn stuff from em, and they spark good debate. Keep it up.

Ok, first I want to make one thing clear: I hate statistics. I hate them in real life, I hate them in sports, I hate them almost as much as I hate the Patriots. Well, ok, maybe not that bad, but still.

I especially hate statistics in football, because they are more misleading then useful. Is a DE or LB better then another one because they have more sacks, or tackles? Absolutely not! That is heavily dependent on the defensive system. Is a QB, RB, or WR better just because they have more yards? Again, it depends on the system.

Even with team statistics, if a team is leading the league in offensive yardage, that doesn’t necessarily mean they have the best offense, it could just mean that they have poor defense and special teams and have to sustain longer drives.

There are a TON of things that happen on any particular play in football that are not recorded at all, yet can have a monstrous effect on the way the play develops. For instance, you guys should all remember Jake Scott, who is in my opinion one of the best safeties to ever play the game, and is certainly one of, if not the, best Dolphins safety ever. He was very good at finding opposing QBs secrets and determining how they read the play, for instance, he figured out that Joe Namath always watch the Free Safety’s break to read the coverage, and he would take a false first step to fool him.

This would throw off Namath’s read, and would lead to bad throws, interceptions, deflections, or tackles that may be credited to other players, but it was Scott’s first step that changed the whole dynamic of the play.

Statistics cannot measure that, and they never will.

Now, all of that being said, if someone is refusing to come here because of all of the statistics, they’re a moron. That’s like not going to a restaurant because you don’t like one of the items on the menu.

but I can see your point. I enjoy football because, for me it is very entertaining. that being said, I come to this site daily to get my “finfix”. I never paid much attention to numbers, and still get bogged down when there are a lot of numbers thrown around. I think ratenxs make a valid point. On the other hand, I have enjoyed the stats analysis that has been done by some of the guys on this site and can see the value of them. I just can’t say that it is my favorite part.

I’m not a big numbers guy, mainly as a lot of them tend to be skewed as there are so many factors involved but I sure wouldn’t get bent out of shape because someone enjoys reading them.

I must admit though that if posts look like they’re too ‘numbers heavy’ then I often skip past them as much of the discussion for me can be based on a false premise. JMHO but figured you’d want to hear feedback, good or bad :)

Numbers can be skewed. Its FACT, however that doesnt make it wrong! LOL Look at the ’72 season. Numbers said we shouldnt have been that good (plenty of teams with better “numbers” than us that season and based on numbers we ended up as underdogs in the SB…and we all know how that turned out….LOL. Aslo as a newer example look at Zach…there was a guy whos numbers (mostly his physical stats) said he would never be as good as he turned out to be. Again its a logic/statistical basis vs. an emotional/illogical basis. Neither is 100% right or wrong…they all leave room for debate and discussion…which is the whole 100% basis of blogs like this one. We ALL love the Dolphins and we all approch it differently…and you know what? thats a GREAT thing. You know its like TV or Radio…if you dont like it…skip it! How stinking hard is that to understand? I gotta tell ya I missed almost all of the bruhaha of this but the more I read backwards about it…get over it! Some people love numbers…some people hate em…but we all love the Fins and if you really really really dont like checking out the numbers part of what these guys write….write your own! Its not hard! Sit and think about what you want to say and then type it out! Geeze theres a ton of people on here who will take the time to read what you have to say and then give you feedback on it!

MHAO of Course

If people don’t like it F’em. My favorite thing is the trash talk. Everyone has their own thing. I respect the work that you guys put in to your statistics. But I think that your post was a little weak. Trying to justify your statistical posts is back-peddling. Again, JUST DO YOUR THING. I’ve been pounded in the past by Phinsider pets like RZ and Nicky. . .so what? They can all pound salt in their ass because I’m gonna post what I post. In a nutshell stand behind your stuff and man-up. Screw their buddy club, Whether anyone reads Phatfinfan’s crap or not, I’m part of this thing. At least your stuff involves research. My shit usually makes no sense.

Numbers are fantastic…..but if all you have to offer is #’s you found off some site then i just wont have that much fun talking to you. We are here to chat about our team…..some of you make it more fun than others.

Im just not that guy….sports are meant to be fun……i PERSONALLY come here for fun…if i want numbers i know where to go get them.

To each his own….calculate away

This starting to sound republican/democrat like. You know the ones who CAN make numbers lie?
What makes this a great site is cause it’s ALL here.

BTW, how come PhinPhanatic is showing up on my “Miami” google news and not Phinsider?

Payola?

60% of the time it works everytime

Everyone likes different things. And that’s why I think our community does such a great job. I think there’s something here at this site for everyone. And that’s what makes this place what it is – because everyone brings something to the table.

 I love the numbers game. The only thing about standard numbers crunching is they usually don’t go far enough. Example: Emmit Smith leading the league in yardage. Does that make him a better back than Barry Sanders. Imagine Barry running behind that Dallas Offensive line for most of his career. Scary numbers is what I am thinking.

Stats are good, but, they need to be tempered with the type of team that player played on and all the circumstances they incurred to get them.

I’d like to see someone put together a system that could add more factors to the stat analysis that would allow a clearer image of those numbers.

I guess I’m saying I want more Numbers. Keep up the effort. Some appreciate it.

Every time I post something, the response is always someone joking with me. It appears that is the only response anyone is capable of giving me.

I’ll read it.

This thing has dragged out and my NyQuil has kicked in

In no way shape or form was my intent to discourage stat-like post here at the Phinsider. I made a huge mistake with a post I made regarding this subject. People have bad days, I was having a epic one. I think GatorPhan and PhinfaninMA bring more diversity to the site and they should be acknowledged for their work, and time put in.

  That being said, number overkill isn’t my cup of tea. I like football for the “game” of it, and I like the Phinsider for the “fun” of it. I’d much rather talk about what a great hit that was by the LB as opposed to how many sacks he should compile playing at a certain postion in rainy conditions bases on “stats”. Thats just me. I like football for football sake. I don’t gamble, I don’t fantasy football……..I just love football. The clack of the pads, the smell of the turf, the pure physical nature of one team vs. another with the crowd cheering. The “feel” of the game……….thats my thing.

  I humbly appologize to anyone that I offended by what I’ve said in the last few weeks regarding certain post. But, in all fairness, I like anyone else here have a right to say what they feel without having to open up a briefcase and make my case like lawyer because I simply disagree. If you put up a huge post with lots of numbers and charts and stats…..and I type……“Yaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwnnn”………take it with a grain of salt, get thicker skin, whatever, Its not disrespect, more than likely I just trying to be funny or its just my point of view. You cry for respect, that street goes both ways.

  I’m a team player and have been since I joined here, and I’ll continue to be that way. But, if you bring your laptop to a game……I’m probably going to pour a beer on it…. : )

of statistics are meaningless

Getting a little ridiculous. It’s always some random person coming outta nowhere to say it, too. If there’s a problem, let me know, don’t just throw the word “pet” around randomly in a post that has nothing to do with me at all.

Bill James needs to actually watch some games

Bill James pointed out that in baseball, the difference between a .300 hitter and a .275 hitter (essentially the difference between a good hitter and an average hitter) is virtually undetectable through viewing the games.

won’t discuss this anyfurther here since this is a football site (pm me if you want) but anyone who knows and watches baseball can see the difference between an average hitter and a better one and it doesn’t just include 2 hits a week… it involves hitting pitches to the right side with runners on second, driving the ball with runners on third and working pitchers in clutch situations… and like wise in football stats only go so far…

yeah penne had a great statistic season but to someone like me, he really did hamstring the offense since teams loaded the box knowing he is unable or unwilling to consistantly throw over/beyond the LB’s… so yeah you can put up nice throwing numbers getting 8 yard gains on 3-10 or more but it doesn’t mean you are p manning.

while interesting, still don’t tell the whole story.

I buy the Football Prospectus from Football Outsiders every season, I have all of them, and I do enjoy reading them. But they still don’t tell the whole story.

Straight off of the FO website, based on DYAR, I refuse to believe that Roddy White is a better WR then Larry Fitzgerald, Reggie Wayne, or Hines Ward, or that guys like Derrick Ward, Thomas Jones, Steve Slaton, Pierre Thomas, or Sammy Morris are better RBs Brian Westbrook.

My problem isn’t with the statistics themselves, I will admit that they are at least somewhat interesting. My argument is against the title of the thread that "Numbers Can’t Lie," when, in fact, they can’t really tell the truth, either. I don’t mind statistics as, like you said, a portion of an entire analysis, but they never should be taken as the be-all-end-all analysis, either.

Besides, DYAR and DVOA are still heavily based upon yardage totals, and having more yards =/= better player or team.

They take into account the differing values of field position at what time of the game, at what down and distance. They show that a guy who throws a lot of 9 yard passes on 3 and 10 isn’t very good. They show that a WR who gains a lot of yards in blowouts isn’t very good. Their numbers are far more meaningful if you take the time to get to know them.