More on the Vonnie Holliday dilemma

by Matty I on Feb 10, 2009 12:15 AM EST in News Comment 22 comments

So yesterday, as part of the weekend roundup, we talked a little bit about Vonnie Holliday and the decision the Dolphins are faced with. Beginning yesterday, teams can begin to release veteran players - if they so choose. Vonnie, unfortunately, carries a large cap number and could conceivably be a cap casualty this offseason.

But first of all, allow me to clearly break down Vonnie's contract situation in terms of how it relates to Miami's cap room:

Vonnie's 2009 Cap Number = $5.75 million
Salary = $2.8 million
Roster Bonus = $1.7 million (due to be paid on March 3)
Prorated Bonuses = $1.25 million

Vonnie's 2010 Cap Number = $6.5 million
Salary = $3.55 million
Roster Bonus = $1.7 million
Prorated Bonuses = $1.25 million

Notes
-Holliday is a free agent following the 2010 season.
-"Prorated Bonuses" must be paid out - even if the player is cut. Essentially, all a prorated bonus is is the player's signing bonus - money he's probably already received - but spread out over the life of the contract.

How releasing Holliday changes Miami's cap situation
Releasing Vonnie before March 3 - when his roster bonus is due - would result in the following:

Dolphins wouldn't have to pay Vonnie's salary or roster bonus. But they would have to take the hit for all of his prorated bonus money, both from '09 and 2010 - creating $2.5 million in dead cap money. Below is how this scenario breaks down:

2009 cap hit = $2.5 million (saving Dolphins $3.25 million from what it would have been if Vonnie was still on the roster)

The financial bottom line
Releasing Holliday before March 3 will save the Dolphins $3.25 million in cap room in 2009.

The Dilemma
How will the Dolphins determine Vonnie's value? The key decision makers will sit down in a room and begin talking about if Vonnie is worth the money he is owed. But his stats and his game-film aren't enough to judge Holliday on.

You need to consider his veteran leadership. You have to take into account how his teammates feel about him. The man was voted a team captain by his teammates. All through his Miami career, Vonnie has been nothing short of a class act - on and off the field. He has a great work ethic that likely rubs off on his teammates. He puts in time with the young players, helping develop '08 draft picks Phillip Merling and Kendall Langford.

So how would it look for the front office to simply release a team leader like Vonnie over money? Would that hurt the trust between the coaches/front office and their players? Is that a risk the Dolphins want to take?

That's the dilemma that the Dolphins currently face.

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1

Frequently wrong, but never in doubt.
Phyrmun

by phyrmun on Feb 10, 2009 12:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Good post,

Financial wise it my be a good decision but I wouldnt do it at all. For the reasons you mentioned. This would be a huge shock credibility wise. If you have ever been a part of a team you know how it feels and it isnt pretty.

by MauMontaV5 on Feb 10, 2009 12:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

$3.5 mil

Could we get a better dude for $3.5 mil? Probably not. He’ll stick around unless someone gives us a 2nd rounder, which I doubt.

by gophish on Feb 10, 2009 2:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

5.75 if it was 3.5 we arent even discussing this

by MauMontaV5 on Feb 10, 2009 2:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if you look at Vonnie's Contract numbers

he is fairly cheap for his talent level. Another player brought in with more talent than Vonnie will cost a lot more than 9.75 Million over the next two years. After 2010 Vonnie will probably retire then hopefully Langford and Merling will be all-pro,

by phatfinfan on Feb 10, 2009 5:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not too worried...

I believe he will do what’s in the best interest of the team. He will re-structure, and make his contract more cap friendly. It’s what most veterans do, especially someone like Vonnie, who has made his money in the league, already is on a playoff team, and probably won’t get the same contract anywhere else in the league, like the one he will get here. It’s happened before with our veteran players, like Zach, JT, I think even Sam Madison at one point re-structured to stay with us. Hopefully that is what will happen, but in this day and age of professional sports, nothing surprises me anymore, so the possibility does still exist that he could be a cap casulty in the coming weeks.

Now is the time- the time to rise up from the depths of Hell and stake our claim back on top of the AFC East...Look out Gaytriots here comes Jake Long and the Phins

by FinzD54 on Feb 10, 2009 6:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't see the problem!

He is fairly cheap and he contribute a lot to the team on and off the field.

I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(21 years and counting)

by Aleta on Feb 10, 2009 8:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

You are overlooking the fact...

…that his contract can be renegotiated. The 2x years of $1.25mil are already paid out, but anything else is up for renegotiation.

by dab415217 on Feb 10, 2009 9:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

That would be the best option IMO

Keeping him with a lower cap number is the ideal situation, and restructuring is a pretty simple solution.

"Are we doing this? Is this happening?"

by Little Nicky 21 on Feb 10, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Problem with that:

teams can no longer take a portion of a player’s salary and convert it to a bonus to be paid out over the life of the contract because this is the last capped season. There are no more prorated bonuses. So the Dolphins can’t take his $2.8 million salary, convert it to a bonus, and pay it out over the next two years. That is officially no longer an option.

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Feb 10, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so unless Vonnie agrees to a flat-out paycut, renegotiation wont help.

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Feb 10, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

damn you Roger Goodell

work a deal out already!!

"Are we doing this? Is this happening?"

by Little Nicky 21 on Feb 10, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry Matty

I just can’t buy that we keep a guy around for the sake of the other guy’s feelings. No, I say that Vonnie has a valuable salary slot that we could use to bolster this team because with te schedule next year, its going to be rough if that doesn’t happen.

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

Coach Paul Bear Bryant

by AussieKen on Feb 10, 2009 2:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

true

that other people’s feelings shouldn’t be a reason to keep him around. But to play devil’s advocate, there’s a certain trust between the players and the front office. And cutting a team captain – one who produces – simply because of dollars and cents violates that trust. Does that worry you at all?

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Feb 10, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

very good point

you cannot underestimate the value of a captain on your field. experience and leadership are worth just as much as stats and points. when you get rid of a leadership that has been establish by your own guys over money (or for any infraction he might commit for that fact) that sends a real message either good or bad.

indeed it does worry me Matty, because that to a player tells you one of two things 1)the front office doesn’t care about leadership and 2)what ever leadership and respect i garnered from my team doesn’t matter in the over all long run to this franchise

by Ex Sniper on Feb 10, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No.

Look who they got rid of last year and it worked out pretty well. These guys really know what they’re doing, so if they do get rid of him I’m fine with it. But I know that if they don’t get rid of him it won’t be because of how the other guys feel. They simply want to make the team better and thats what I want.

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

Coach Paul Bear Bryant

by AussieKen on Feb 10, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think Von makes the Team Better

He may be getting up there in age but what he brings to the table you can’t replace that easy, especially playing DE in the 3-4 defense. Tony likes to have his D lineman in and out of the game to keep them fresh. With plenty of room in cap space we don’t have to make any tough decision with a signed player. I say we keep him……

by jvw on Feb 10, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

DIDO!!

I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(21 years and counting)

by Aleta on Feb 11, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to shy away from Vonnie buuut

This go’s for Ernest Wilford as well though Vonnie would give us and extra 3.5 cutting ties with Wilford would actually cost us a cap hit of about 1.5 million so god only knows what we will do with Ernie poo.

Foy518

by Foy on Feb 10, 2009 5:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What are you going to do...

About the D-Line if you release Holliday? The rest of the line was less than stellar, and the only pressure we seemed to get was from the OLB’s, and an occasional blitz from one of our DB’s. You mean to tell me that you are ready to turn this D-line over to Merling, and Langford? Yes they showed flashes of potential, but C’mon, you do not give away a team captain, and an overall locker room leader for nothing. They can figure something out when it come to his contract, and i also think that he will take a paycut…Who the Hell wants to be jobless in this economy anyways?

Now is the time- the time to rise up from the depths of Hell and stake our claim back on top of the AFC East...Look out Gaytriots here comes Jake Long and the Phins

by FinzD54 on Feb 10, 2009 10:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs