The Phinsider: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Kickball - SB Nation presents KICK! at SXSW in Austin

Tuesday Thoughts: Talking receivers & more

When I sat down to write this, I couldn't pinpoint one single topic I wanted to highlight today. So I figured - what the hell - let's make this post a little bit of everything.

Quick thoughts on the receivers
For the first time this year, the Dolphins won a game through the air. Miami's receivers did come up very big on Sunday. And it made me realize - this receiving corps needs a legitimate number one receiver.

Huh?

Let me explain.

Did anyone notice how most of Chad Henne's completions on Sunday came on slants, drags, curls, and comebacks? Part of the reason for that is because the Dolphins - outside of Ted Ginn, who we know isn't the most reliable receiver - don't have any receiver who can get behind the defense. Translation? They're slow. Well, maybe that was harsh. But they're certainly not fast.

With that said, though, just imagine how good this group could become if the Dolphins had that true number one receiver. Just think about how effective Brian Hartline and Greg Camarillo would be with a real threat playing on the other side of them. Or how good Davone Bess would be working the slot week in and week out like Wes Welker does thanks, in large part, to having a teammate like Randy Moss. That one singular addition of a real number one receiver would instantly change this receiving corps from an "average to below average" group to a "good to great" group.

Speaking of Bess, though, let's spend a moment on him. Just how good has Davone been since being an undrafted free agent last year out of Hawaii? Well - he's been really, really good. Some like to call D-Bess a "poor man's Wes Welker." But through their first two seasons, Bess has actually been better than Welker. And let's be honest - if Bess, right now in just year two of his career, was swapped out with Welker and played in that offense with those teammates, he'd be every bit as productive as Welker, if not better.

Star-divide

In his first two seasons, Welker caught 96 balls for 1,121 yards and a touchdown. Bess, meanwhile, has 113 catches for 1,102 yards and two touchdowns. In fact, Bess has a chance to catch Irving Fryar for most receptions in their first two seasons as a Dolphin. Fryar caught 137 passes in his first two seasons in Miami. Second on that list, meanwhile, is Mark Duper - but with an asterisk. His first season was technically 1982. But Duper was only active for two games that year and never even touched the ball. In '83 and '84, Duper caught 122 passes. Bess is only 24 receptions short of Fryar's mark and just nine from Duper's mark.

You'll have a hard time finding any receiver in the NFL who is more efficient than Bess, too. In fact, only six wide receivers in the AFC have a higher catch percentage than Bess. And one of them is a teammate of his. Below is how the Dolphins receivers have done catching the football:

Player Rec. Tgts. Catch %
Greg Camarillo 32 45 71.1%
Davone Bess 59 84 70.2%
Brian Hartline 21 37 56.8%
Ted Ginn 27 61 44.3%

A little '08 draft talk
Watching Joe Flacco make mistake after mistake on on Monday night, I got to thinking about the top quarterbacks in the 2008 draft class. The Dolphins were heavily criticized by some (Mel Kiper and Mike Mayock come to mind first) for passing on Matt Ryan and drafting Jake Long/Chad Henne instead. But now that Henne has nine career starts under his belt, let's compare the numbers of those three quarterbacks (Henne, Ryan, Flacco) through their first nine starts. And yes - some will say it isn't a fair comparison because Henne had a year to sit and learn. My rebuttle is simple. Ryan and Flacco had better supporting casts around them - especially Ryan in Atlanta.

Let's go to the numbers:

Player Comp/Att Comp % Yds YPA YPC TD Int W-L
Chad Henne 163/282 57.8% 1,755 6.2 10.8 9 7 6-3
Matt Ryan 149/250 59.6% 1,909 7.6 12.8 10 6 6-3
Joe Flacco 151/243 62.1% 1,649 6.8 10.9 7 7 6-3

You cna make whatever judgments you want from those numbers above. But here's what I know. At this point, there's no reason to think that Henne won't be as good, if not better, than either of the other two quarterbacks. And when you couple the selection of Henne with the selection of a franchise left tackle like Long, I think it's fair to say that these "draft experts" should prepare to dine on some crow in the not-to-distant future.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - to this day, I still draft Jake Long over Matt Ryan. Chad Henne is just an excellent little bonus.

AFC Playoff Picture
I'm not a fan of projecting too far into the future in terms of playoff positioning. But this does deserve a quick examination.

Here are the facts. The Dolphins are currently in 8th in the AFC, only one game behind the final wildcard spot that is currently held by the Jaguars - coincidentally, the Dolphins' next opponent. In fact, Miami's final four opponents are all against teams in the AFC playoff race.

So what happens if the Dolphins win their remaining four games and get to 10-6? Well that would mean that the Jaguars, Ravens, and Jets would all have at least six losses to go along with Miami. Thanks to Miami's two game sweep of the Jets, New York is a non-factor if the Dolphins win out. So that would bring us to the Dolphins, Ravens, and Jaguars.

The first tie-breaker for three teams and one wildcard spot is if any of the teams have defeated both of the other teams. In this scenario, no team would have accomplished this. The next tie-breaker is conference record. In this scenario, with the Dolphins and Ravens winning out and the Jags winning all but their game this week against the Dolphins, Jacksonville would only have three conference losses while both Miami and Baltimore would have four - giving that final wildcard spot to the Jaguars.

But the Jaguars still face the Colts at home and the Patriots in New England. So I don't think it's likely we see the Jaguars end the season with only three conference losses. And if they were to lose to New England or Indy, then that would give the Jags seven losses - eliminating them from this particular discussion in which we are examining what would happen should the Ravens and Dolphins win their remaining games.

So that would leave the Ravens and Dolphins. The next tie-breaker after conference record would be each team's record in common games. In this scenario, with the Dolphins and Ravens winning their remaining games, the Ravens would be 3-2 in games against common opponents (which are SD, NE, Ind, Pit) while the Dolphins would be just 2-3. Hence - the Ravens would get that final wildcard spot.

What's this all mean? It means that the Dolphins do not control their own destiny. But it also means that they have got to take care of their own business if they even want to worry about these playoff scenarios. And that continues this week in Jacksonville.

1 recs  |  Comment 138 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Is there still any chance for a Brandon Marshall or Anquan Boldin? Or any equal or greater WR that I may be missing that could become available?

Peninsula Is Mightier:Your SB Nation Miami Heat Blog Community Juggernaut

"My parents would always say, `It doesn't matter if it`s a guy picking up the garbage or the President of the United States, treat everybody as you would want to be treated.'"- Dan Marino

by DolPhanDave on Dec 8, 2009 1:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ditto

I really want to know the status of that, anyone know?

by mhooligan on Dec 8, 2009 1:31 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

would have to be cut

for this season next yr shrugs

Confidence breeds success, self-doubt breeds failure

by Blaze453 on Dec 8, 2009 1:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vincent jackson from San Diego
Miles Austin from Dallas
And Stepven breaston from Arizone (I think)

by esco6781 on Dec 8, 2009 7:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Vincent Jackson would be nice

He would be a great deep target as well as red zone target for Henne, however, I don’t see San Diego letting him go! We can dream.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How does the Ravens losing to the Steelers affect our outlook?

We simply need to win out and need the Ravens to lose against the Steelers, that would be a good scenario.

by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Dec 8, 2009 1:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ted Ginn Analysis: Pats Game

I’m not sure if anyone noticed, but when Henne threw that interception that was supposed to go to Bess, Ginn was single covered and the defender tried to chuck him on the line. He broke right past it and had at least 3 yards on him and I saw him kick another gear that would have made it 5 or more for an easy catch in the endzone.

by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Dec 8, 2009 1:35 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

That was Henne's fault.

If Henne had more experience, he would have pump faked the safety towards Bess, then bombed it to Ginn. He’ll get that down in time, learning to look off the safeties.

by luvs2drnk on Dec 8, 2009 3:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I really think he needs to add some arch

All his deep throws seem too much on a laser and if you aren’t accurate with a long laser throw, then you are generally going to throw incomplete. With some arch, the receivers can run TO the ball, even if it is off target just a bit.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought the pass to Hartline...

was a good showing of a long pass with some arch on it. The only issue I see is that’s probably a play they practice a lot and he always throws it over the top to the outside shoulder. The other long balls are probably more improvisation on a check down / up and I think over time he will get there.

by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Dec 8, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah that one was good

But most of his deep passes were more laser throws that leave very little margin of error. It’s a fine line between the rainbow throws and the laser throws, and I think he needs to work somewhere between the two.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That is more of a chemistry issue

At that time of the game, DBess was eating up double coverage and fighting for every ball that came his way. I believe Henne and DBess developed a bond during this last practice which solidified the trust of Henne when DBess started making catches like a Vick pit bull latching on another pit bulls neck for dear life knowing it be electrocuted and drowned by Vick if it let go.

With Ginn n family not fighting for the ball when some ones breathing down his neck. Henne probably took his chance’s with DBess knowing the way he fights for a ball he would draw a pass interference from Meriweather. Henne just didn’t throw it on target, or forgot that DBess isn’t 6’5";)

by jesavius on Dec 8, 2009 4:23 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I feel bad for laughing at that joke

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.

by Patssuck456 on Dec 8, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You should

That just wasn’t funny

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent view..... rec'd..!

… and the emphasis was humorous to boot. That is definetly holding on!!

Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"You know, I believe we have two lives. The life we learn with and the life we live with after that. " - Glenn Close in The Natural

by Alpha6 on Dec 8, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think it has anything to do with chemistry.

You don’t throw passes into triple coverage, when you’ve got one-on-one, with your guy faster than the other. Even if it is Ted Ginn!! It was another case of Henne locking onto a target, but this time he failed to see the safety coming over. A more experienced QB would have led led the safety towards Bess, then thrown towards a streaking Ginn with single coverage, who I might add had a couple steps on his defender. So there wouldn’t have been a defender breathing down his neck, to disrupt him from making the catch.

by luvs2drnk on Dec 9, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree with you on that brother

Unless of course the receiver you are throwing to in triple coverage is Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!!

Adjutant General, Matty Fan Club
64 "Phinsider Fued" Points..!!
"You know, I believe we have two lives. The life we learn with and the life we live with after that. " - Glenn Close in The Natural

by Alpha6 on Dec 9, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I say build his confidence with slant routes and try to take advantage...

when he’s single covered, take the shot after he’s made some easy completions earlier in the game…I’d rather throw the ball to a single covered Ginn than to a triple covered Bess…

by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Dec 8, 2009 1:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Always thought we should use Ginn more on slants

He is fast enough to get some seperation. Now catching it….well that’s another story!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey now....

Two nice grabs is much better than his normal two bad drops, so if we are going to knock him when he screws up, we should compliment him when he makes a play!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

the way he dotted the i was a thing of beauty.

now, before we go all GinnGoofy, let’s see it more than once.
;-)

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Dec 8, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Amen, I give props to Ginn for catching...

any ball really. The balls that he has caught recently have mostly been clutch plays and while may not be considered “HUGE” plays, should be considered pretty big. The catch off his hip, catching the ball and falling out of bounds at a perfect location for a field goal, slant route to pickup 15 or so yards and even dove head first for “EXTRA YARDAGE”.

by Phin-Phan-Phorever on Dec 8, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it was,

I was shocked he managed to get both feet inbounds! We need more throws to him on routes like that and the quick slants, even if he does fall to the ground immediately after the catch.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he is good at the sideline routes

I have been saying those are the routes he should be running….posts, fly, quick slants and deep outs. Anything other than that and will drop the ball in fear.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I hate to say but Ginn is needed for the offense

We just need to smart about how we use him. He isn’t gonna catch anything over the middle or the flats. He is plain scared of contact so he is basically useless in these areas. He’ll drop it nearly every time whether or not anyone is close to him or not.

I think e should have him run 3 routes: Fly, slant and curl. That’s it. That is all we should expect out of him. All three of these routes require speed to get open and Ginn certainly has plenty of that. Send him down the field on every play while throwing in a curl route when the coverage is playing way off. If the other is blitzing then Henne should hot route Ginn into a slant. If he isnt wide open oh well he’s served his purpose in occupying at least 1 safety. Look to Bess,Cam or Hartline for the lion’s share of receptions.

The Saints have it down with Henderson. He does nothing all game until the one time teams leave him one on one where he breaks it for a 70 yd TD

I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?

by Souwantmyname on Dec 8, 2009 2:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant, I agree completely.

Just one or two long plays to Ginn each game, whether complete or incomplete, changes the way the defence looks at us, and the space we receive.

So even by not making plays, if we at least feign using him, he helps us by being out on the field. And the boy can return kicks, too.

I think the Ginn hate-storm has blown out now, now that we realize who he is and who he’ll never be.

Football isn't a matter of life and death - it's far more important than that.

by Agumen on Dec 8, 2009 2:26 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't understand why we throw deep to Bess or Hartline so much

I know Ginn doesn’t have great hands but he seems more open deep than the other two WR. I always see Ginn behind the DB and you know that seperation will only grow as he gets to top speed. Bess just isn’t a threat deep. Hartline can be, but I would look to Ginn before Hartline if I could.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But Bess can't get open deep

I would rather have Ginn drop a deep ball than to have Henne throw to Bess in Double or Triple coverage and be picked off. Bess just isn’t a threat deep. Ginn is, and gets behind the defense constantly.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't use the Saints as a comparison.

If we had all the weapons on offense that they have? Ginn probably would be having a decent year because he’d be playing the slot receiver running nothing but intermediate to deep routes with mainly single coverage. But unfortunately we do not have a Marques Colston, a Jeremy Shockey, and a Robert Meachem to take the pressure off him.

by luvs2drnk on Dec 8, 2009 3:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody really has got to write a hand written letter to Davone Bess saying sorry.

During the stretch in which he had a couple of bad games 9 out of 10 people around here and other sites (fins ha zzzzzzzz ha nation) completely bashed the guy and didn’t bother cutting him any slack. Now all of a sudden he is super Bess again. People need to be more tolerant and more supportive.

by MauMontaV5 on Dec 8, 2009 3:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I even wrote a post about it….especially when people were saying to bench him in order to try getting Turner on the field.

I would still hesitate in saying that Bess is as good as Welker. Bess is an excellent slot receiver but he has a way to go before I will compare him to Welker. Welker can still get open down the field. I haven’t seen Bess open more than 12 yards from the LOS yet this year. Not to mention that Welker just doesn’t drop balls and the guys can get crushed and he just hops back up. Short of Welker, I would say that Bess is the next best option. Very good, but not Welker!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bess has the potentail to be just as good, if not better than Welker.

But let’s also not forget, that Welker didn’t become this good until he was paired with a decent WR and QB. To be fair, I’d compare Welker’s 3rd year to Bess’ 2nd year, and they’re basically identical. Now will Bess continue the trend to the following year? Doubtful, unless we get a true number 1 receiver who can play like Randy Moss. I still stand by my assertion though that he needs to stop returning punts, he’s just not good at it.

As for the playoffs, as I stated before the Buffalo loss. That was the last time we would control our own playoff destiny. That loss cost us all of our tie breakers, so now we’re forced to have to play the hope we win all of our games, and hope the rest of our wild card rivals lose game. And I can tell ya’, it’s not a fun game to play. Especially when your playoff hopes rest on the shoulders of a team who’s already locked up a playoff spot, and is playing all of their backups. This reminds me of 1993, when we needed the Broncos to beat the Raiders and we would have won the tie breaker over the Raiders.

by luvs2drnk on Dec 8, 2009 3:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

We don't exactly need all of our wild card rivals to lose

Essentially, we need to win out, have Jax lose to NE or Indy and have the Ravens lose on of their last 4 – like against the Steelers, for example.

by Matty I on Dec 8, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hold on Matty.....

Why do you say have Jax lose to NE. Wouldn’t we will the AFC east if we win out and NE loses one more game? Then NE isn’t in the playoffs, we win the East and we would actually have home field advantage against the Wild Card team. I for one am hoping that JAX beats NE, as long as we win out. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe we hold the tie breaker over NE again this year if we end with identical records.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

true

i was only looking at it from the WC perspective. But if Jax can find a way to beat NE and the Dolphins can win out, then they are division champs.

by Matty I on Dec 8, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be option one

The hell with going on the road the whole playoffs….lets get a home game!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually...

If trends means something, NE is about to have a hard time at Buffalo and at Houston, remember the Pansies are awful on the road this year.
Suddenly buffalo is playing not that bad and Houston will be desperate to win.
At the end everything is about phins winning out.

by Mexican_ on Dec 8, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fins winning out is the bottom line.

I can’t see there being a way that we can win out and not make the playoffs….Maybe there is but I don’t think it will happen.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Basically we need to win all of our games.

And hope NE or BAL lose one of their last 4. If that happens, we are in. But even if we win out, if BAL and NE do the same, they get in and we don’t.

by luvs2drnk on Dec 9, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

During the offseason....

I see us getting a #1 WR. Whether it be trade of FA.

And look for Bess to get a nice fat contract too…

"Welcome to The Doghouse"
Your best? Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fuck the prom queen! -Sean Connery
"The more people I meet the more I like my dog."
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart."

by Kdog92 on Dec 8, 2009 5:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I would much rather have 4 legitimate threats, and i think we do.To start off with Greg Camarillo is a clutch receiver especially for 3rd and 4th down throws. Davon Bess is excellent on the crossing patterns and key 3rd down and punt returns. Brian Hartline makes great mid to longer catches especially down the sideline and end zones. And Ted Ginn is still a legitimate long ball and kick off return threat. Hell I would much rather that the Dolphins continue to use everyone of those guys,,,, They are all only going to get better!

Jimbo

by Dolphinator on Dec 8, 2009 6:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

But...

…if you swapped out one of those guys (preferably Ginn) with a Boldin-type, you still have 4 legitimate threats, except one threat is awesome and would draw double coverage.

The problem with the Dolphin WR as currently constructed is that there are no WR’s that really scare anyone. Bess is great. I like all of these guys. But without a true gamebreaker (what we all were hoping Ginn would be), it forces the receivers to try to get open every single play. If you have one WR doubled, it frees up someone else. That’s what we need.

by Jevant on Dec 8, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

The Patriots have won SBs without a #1 WR. If you have at least 3 #2s, you don’t need a #1. You see, the defense has to double someone. If nobody is doubled, then everyone has single coverage! Having no #1 means, simply, that the defense can choose who to double at any time. No matter who your WRs are, someone will always be in single coverage! So, the question is, do you have enough good ones to take advantage ot that?

I think what you guys are thinking of, is a deep threat to open the underneath routes. In other words, we simply need Ginn to play a bit better and we’ll be great.

by icerob on Dec 8, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In their SB's

The Patriots had a Pro-Bowler in Troy Brown in 2001, and Brown and Branch in 2003/4.

Not to mention Brady.

And Ginn is what he is. If he hasn’t taken a step forward by this point, I think we can safely assume he’s a decoy/3rd WR on a good team, at best.

by Jevant on Dec 8, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

But I don’t see us as having 3 good number 2’s. I honestly say that we are closer at this point to having 3 good number 3’s. We need a guy with some speed AND who can run routes AND catch the ball. Ginn has speed, Camarillo can run routes, and he and Bess can catch the ball but we need someone that can do all three….AT THE SAME TIME.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Icerob I totally agree with that assement.

The good thin about all our receivers is the want to be great, including GINN. whom just needs to be shown the way.

by MANDINGO_WRRR on Dec 8, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think myself, along with alot of people on here. Would respectfully disagree. We need a #1 WR with god given talent and size. Someone that can go up against the best CB's in the league and will come down with it 9/10 times.

A WR like Boldin,Moss, Fitz or Marshall. I sure all these guys are or will get paid by seasons end. I believe the Cards FO will be pressured by players to give Boldin a new contract. So I say he’s out, unless of course he still wants out.

by D0lphins4Life on Dec 8, 2009 8:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Boldin is just plain nasty

That was an amazing snatch and go on that front shoulder pass by Warner Sunday night. Plus he is a nightmare in the open field. I would love to get him….but don’t think it will happen.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Playoffs

I think u missed the fact that if we beat jax then that is a tiebreaker for us. Am i right?.

by joeyoneshot on Dec 8, 2009 8:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

if it's only a 2 way tie between us and Jax, then a win over Jax obviously gives us the tie-breaker.

But in the picture I painted above where us, the Jags, and the Ravens are all at 10-6 – then our win over Jax means nothing. In a 3 way tie, head-to-head doesn’t help unless you have beaten BOTH of the other two teams.

by Matty I on Dec 8, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

If the Dolphins win their last 4, they’ll be in the playoffs. believe me! The chances of that happening, however, are slim. I’d take a 3-1 finish and hope for the best.

As far as the QB comparison, I don’t know what you wanted to show, but Henne comes way behind in the all important YPA category: half a yard below Flacco and a yard and a half below Ryan. The only other stat I’d even look at is TD-INT ratio, and Henne is indeed holding his own there in the comparison.

On the other hand, I don’t think the extra year matters. Most QBs need that extra year, if not more, before even starting to play. Can’t hold it against Henne if the others are precocious learners. Then again, I’d take either of those 2 before Henne, even though I’m very happy with how he’s played.

by icerob on Dec 8, 2009 9:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think alot of that YPA

is not having that guy who’ll get you 5, 10, 20 yards after catching the ball.

CP10 and P.Cobbs get well soon
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
"I likem me some UDFAs"

by Phintastic on Dec 8, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed 100%

If Miami took either of the other QB’s they would not have Jake Long. And to get both those players for the next several years. Things are looking good. Now if we can just fix the defense. I think we spend too much time talking about WR when we can’t finish off games. Even though they are getting sacks, they are not getting turnovers or consistent pressure. I like the rookie corners but what happened to the rest of the defense?

by rtantalo on Dec 8, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There's always going to be things you could've done better

but I think we did pretty well with Long and Henne (it’s really hard to find a good QB in the 2nd round), ant that’s what matters

by icerob on Dec 9, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The only stat that matters

Is win vs loss

All else is null and void and just pretty flashing lights and sweet smells.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ginn = Gault

Ginn reminds me of a Willie Gault. Good for about 40 catches a yr and 600-800 yards per year, but needs that Tim Brown type of player to complement him, so he can get that 20 yards per catch. We just need to find that Tim Brown type receiver.

CP10 and P.Cobbs get well soon
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
"I likem me some UDFAs"

by Phintastic on Dec 8, 2009 10:01 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

we need to dump Ginn

Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!

by MainePhinFan on Dec 8, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

uh?

Yes, lets dump an incredibly capable KR. He may not be what we want in the #1 slot, but keep him here as a Dante Hall. Don’t forget that man won KC a lot of games when he played.

Bring us a #1 slot reciever for sure. I personally don’t like drafting one as we’re gonna most likely be unhealthy in the RB position here shortly (Assuming we lose Brown to FA and Williams retires soon.), but if we can pick one up from Free Agency, that’d be sick. I really think we need that experienced reciever on the opposite end of Bess/Hartline.

The post under me. Steve Smith has to be one of my favorite WR’s in the league. I’ve watched him evolve in Carolina on Game 1 of their season one year in which he took 2 KR’s back from their end of the field and has become one hell of a wide out. I don’t know if Carolina gets rid of him, he kind of belongs in Black Cat country.

by Naki on Dec 8, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maine

You really HATE Ginn don’t you? Even though he is one of the top 3 KR in the NFL you would want to get rid of him? I kind of like knowing he is a threat to break one at any given moment!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay you guys, I have thought about it a minute and do agree with you except....

I think we have to see what these guys can become. Like most fans, I too want that
type of “gamebreaker” right now. How about we try to get that bad ass Steve Smith from Carolina? That dude is awesome…

Jimbo

by Dolphinator on Dec 8, 2009 10:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

A little long in the tooth

Especially for what we would have to pay him. I think that there are better options, especially for the long term. If we were talking only 1 or 2 years, he might work. I would prefer younger with more upside and more staying power.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the jaguars beat the Patriots and we win out wouldn’t that put us first in the division? I forget what it was, but I thought we had a tiebreaker over the Patriots. If so that three way tie wouldn’t matter…

by thatzakkid on Dec 8, 2009 10:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

that is correct

if the Dolphins win out and the Pats lose to any of their three remaining AFC opponents (Jax, Buf, Hou), then the Dolphins would win the division based on tie-breaker.

by Matty I on Dec 8, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that would be sooo sweet

CP10 and P.Cobbs get well soon
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
"I likem me some UDFAs"

by Phintastic on Dec 8, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yes yes it would...but...I dunno...to me it would seem like a hollow victory

…ONLY because we would have won the division on what amounts to a technicality*sp(for lack of a better way to say it)….instead of being the best team in our div and just winning outright…which to me would be even sweeter. Still a Win is a Win and having a playoff spot is good no matter what

Phin fan from Germany

by tuscanitunr on Dec 8, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who gives a rats ass...

We beat the Pats so as far as I am concerned we would deserve to be there, it isn’t a technicality. Everyone knows the tie breakers and if you don’t want to be kicked in the balls by it then win the games that you need to win.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What if the Jets win out?

Are you sure we win the tiebreaker with the Jets if it’s at least a 3-team tie? Same goes for the Wildcard spot.

by kcorona4 on Dec 8, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dolphins win if it's a 3 way tie

cus the first tie-breaker of a 3 way tie within division is head-to-head records. Dolphins are 3-1 vs Jets/Pats. Pats are 2-2 and Jets are 1-3.

by Matty I on Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the dolphins tie with the Pats we have a better divisional record. Dolphins when the division and are in the playoffs by default.

by sethworld on Dec 8, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

with that said

if the Dolphins win out and Carolina is the only loss by the Pats in their remaining three, I think the Dolphins would win based on record against common opponents.

by Matty I on Dec 8, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Correct again Matty

Gotta love all the “if this, then that” scenarios!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FYI Golden Tate will enter the draft

No word on whether Arrelious Benn would like to rejoin his teammate VD (what a crappy set of initials, then again Brady has gotten VD twice). Hopefully he decidesto enter the draft.

If we take Rolando McClain (or a NT) and a WR in the second I’ll be happy

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.

by Patssuck456 on Dec 8, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Dont you think

McClain is a top 10 pick? It would be a nice pick up though.

CP10 and P.Cobbs get well soon
Miami Dolphins 2008 AFC East Divison Champions
"I likem me some UDFAs"

by Phintastic on Dec 8, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who knows, he could drop

someone start a pot rumor.

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.

by Patssuck456 on Dec 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He'll be a top-10 lock if he has a strong performance in the title game

I think Denver will take him with the pick they got for Cutler. Bastards.

I think we should take Dan Williams or Brandon “you better wear a helmet visor” Spikes in the first round.

President of the Jake Long #77 fan club!

by kmb8488 on Dec 8, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am think WR vice LB in round 1

Spikes is good but not sure that I would rank our LB need higher than our WR need. I haven’t bothered looking yet, but does anyone know of any good ILB coming available via FA this offseason?

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dansby

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.

by Patssuck456 on Dec 8, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He would be an upgrade

But only the Tuna knows what he is going to do. I am sure that it will surprise us like normal!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

first for the draft

i dont know about yall but watching Marty Gileard (sp?) from Cincinnati he has the big play abilities like ginn with speed but from what i can tell he has better ups and alot better hands..

secondly, in looking at the playoff hunt, if we beat Jacksonville, and they in turn beat the pats could we have another scenario of watching bill bellichek sit on the outside of the playoffs yet again with the phins winning their second straight division title?

by danlr13 on Dec 8, 2009 11:28 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

hm

It won’t be easy for NE to just sit and lose another game, especially after coming off two straight losses. They’re gonna be trying to cover up the coverage problem they’ve had with us and New Orleans.

How do you eat a Patriot? One bite at a time.

by Naki on Dec 8, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure who would have the tie breaker between NE and Jax

Matty, got the details on that one? What if Jax and NE both go 10-6? Who would be in and who would be out?

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoever wins when they play each other, I’d assume… Not sure what happens if Ravens/Steelers/Jets are tied with them too, though…

by thatzakkid on Dec 8, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I would rather face either the Jets or the Jags out of them

Don’t really want to face the Pats, Steelers, or Ravens in the playoffs this year.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, after a little more research the Jets are virtually out of it, if they finish tied with the Dolphins or Patriots for a wild card they lose the tiebreaker. I think the Jags have the best conference record right now… So it would probably be them…

by thatzakkid on Dec 8, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lets just hope the Jags beat the Pats

That makes life that much easier and clear cut for us. Not to mention it put us firmly in control of our own destiny!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but

with the holes they have in the line are they going to be able to stop MJD from running all over them?

by danlr13 on Dec 8, 2009 11:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

sry

this was suposta be a reply lol

by danlr13 on Dec 8, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's assuming that the JAGs don't fall behind

I would love to see MJD run for about 150 and 3 TDs against NE, but right now I think their secondary is in more trouble than their front line. I hope that Jax can exploit it!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

That’s a question we’re gonna have to ask ourselves as well this week. Can we cover Maurice Jones-drew? If we can do it, New England can.

by Naki on Dec 8, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think we can stop him better than NE

Any word on the rumor of Crowder’s injury?

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I see what you're saying about Bess but...

you can’t tell me if Bess was put in the Pats’ offense he’d be “every bit as productive as Welker.” Don’t get me wrong, Bess has been great for us, but Welker runs some of the most crisp routes in the league. Did you see him shake Sean Smith on that slant route to the inside? He does that to the best of defensive backs every single week.

by jfink24 on Dec 8, 2009 12:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100%

Welker is in my humble opinion, if not the greatest slot receiver ever, at least the greatest slot receiver in the last 15-20 years. His first 3 steps are quicker than any other WR and he can stop on a dime and reverse routes better than almost anyone. Not to mention his hands are like fly paper.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not get hasty with the Bess / Welker Comparisons

I was at the game and watched these two receivers. Welker is faster and quicker than Bess. I would say Bess has better hands and is more physical (bigger). Welker can make people miss. Bess hasn’t done that well.

After watching the two, Bess isn’t in Welker’s class. And I don’t think he ever will be. He is not quick enough. But, I also have not seen anyone run routes from the slot better than Welker. He is unique. Bess is good. Welker is damn near uncoverable.

by ct1361 on Dec 8, 2009 12:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nope...don't think so

He is quicker and faster than Bess. Not to mention he is a much better PR than Bess is….Welker has come very close to breaking at least 4 punts for TDs this year, one was down to the two.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree about the WRs matty

I posted this in your other thread yesterday when someone said they thought we already had that #1 guy on the roster:
-———————————————————————————————
 we don’t have that guy on the roster right now.

one element of that #1 WR is speed. Another is Size. We do not have a guy besides Ginn with enough speed to stretch defenses… that is just a fact that is not subject to debate.

But you can have a mid-fast guy that is big enough to make catches over guys, but he still needs to be faster than anyone on the roster. Turner might be that guy in the Fitzgerald mode, but it doesn’t look promising right now and I still don’t think he has the speed to get open downfield. He is probably more in line with a Gadsden type of guy… red zone-jump ball threat.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Dec 7, 2009 4:18 PM PST

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Dec 8, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Davone Bess is a gift from the football gods

The key to Bess is not his receiving, which is awesome.

Do you see how hard he finishes out blocks on EVERY play? That guys a football player. A pleasure to watch

by Sid Bream's Moustache on Dec 8, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

He is decent....if you really appreciate finished blocks, watch Polite!

I haven’t ever seen a guy knock as many LBs on their asses as Polite has this year. He is graded as the best blocking FB in the league and he can’t be stopped on 3rd/4th and 1. He is my unsung team MVP

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dudes as much as we hate GINN he is a key factor every game

Ginn should stay on this team.

Excellent Special Teams

by soxoff on Dec 8, 2009 1:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

For special teams and for the occassional

End around or long bomb. But the only way we can complete a long bomb to Ginn is to throw one to him!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, a little off the topic of the receivers but,

I’ve been reading some local stuff here and there are a bunch of rumors flying that the Rams might be looking to get rid of their free safety, OJ Atogwe. He was franchise tagged by the Rams for this season, and they weren’t able to get a long term deal done this past offseason. He hurt his shoulder against the Bears on Sunday and might be done for the rest of the season, and now there is a lot of talk that they may get rid of him.

If they are shopping him, what do you guys think about us picking him up? He’s 28, but is definitely a ballhawking free safety, something we don’t have in Wilson. According to nfl.com, in his 5 seasons (counting this one) he’s so far gotten 19 interceptions and 14 forced fumbles. Personally, I think that he would be a good pickup for us.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Dec 8, 2009 2:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like it

Now that we have our physical, shutdown corner, it’d be nice to give him someone who can bust up receivers over the top.

President of the Jake Long #77 fan club!

by kmb8488 on Dec 8, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Or at least the ball

Right now I would settle for someone that knew how to be in the right position playing either FS or SS.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 8, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he definitely knows how to be a FS,

I don’t know how much he has played as a SS. But considering Wilson is basically a SS trying to play a FS, I think it would definitely be better to get someone who knows how to be a FS for that position. And Atogwe fits the bill, plus he is pretty good at forcing turnovers, which is never a bad thing.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Dec 8, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The only thing that scares me is him coming off of the injury

I am not sure that Parcells will overpay for someone coming off a major injury.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure how serious an injury it is.

With there only being a few games left, it wouldn’t take a major injury to put him out the rest of the season.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Dec 9, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but my concern

Is will he come back to be the player that he was before the injury. Alot of times players don’t and I would hate to overpay for potential “upside”

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I understand that. I definitely wouldn't overpay for him,

but the injury could also drive his price down, and the Rams have so much rebuilding left to do, and they might be looking to stockpile picks for the draft, so its a possibility to get a good deal for him.

But I do agree with you, we would need to evaluate him and definitely not overpay. If we can get a good deal it might be worth it, if not, then let him go.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Dec 9, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I am all for bringing in legit talent. But after the Culpepper fiasco, I tend to shy away from injuries if possible (unless they are cheap and not a big risk)

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't know if this was posted elsewhere

Just got home from work and reviewed what was playing on NFLN.
Tonight, it’s Oakland at Pittsburgh and following that is N.O. at Washington.
I looked ahead for several hours, even into tomorrow evening but I either
got “No program description” or the same games. Just for your information.
Have a good evening and stay well.

by Valentine14 on Dec 8, 2009 7:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

EMERGENCY!!!

Came in on a brief discussion on NFLN about Dolphins’ corners.
One guy said that next year, they will have a full year under their belt
and they’ll be tough to beat. The other guy said, “Bill Parcells likes
those big corners, huh?” And the first guy said, “Bill Parcells has
been CHIRPING AT DAVIS, wanting him to play.” That sounded
good to me!! Davis and Smith will be just fine. I’m so very happy
we got them both. Will Allen just lost his job. There is NO WAY he’s
unseating Davis or Smith.

by Valentine14 on Dec 8, 2009 7:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

since we're talkin draft...

As much as I hate to say it but nick saban has two pieces of our 3-4 D that I would love to see wearing aqua and orange. If we could get either Mcclain or Cody in the 1st round I would be estatic.

by Superzoe92 on Dec 8, 2009 9:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

Draft

I agree I would love to see “Mount” Cody in aqua and orange, and funny thing is they have two DT going before him in Williams and Suh so it’s a possibility. I would also love to see the Phins take mardy Gilyard in the 2nd or 3rd round.

by Bluechips85 on Dec 9, 2009 12:42 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

3rd

The only wisdom is the knowledge that you don't know

by PotM on Dec 9, 2009 8:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Haven't watched enough to have an opinion

Traveling as much as I am only allows me the time to really watch either college or pro, not both….and I HAVE TO TAKE MY BELOVED FINS!!

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeremiah Bell chased down Welker on that 58-yd pass saving TD

Did anyone catch Yeremiah Bell chasing down Welker from behind on that 58-yd pass? Boy does he look fast. He saved the TD and the result was the Dolphins ended up stopping the Pats on 4th and 1. Bell deserves kudos for that and not giving up. He did the same thing a few games ago though I can’t remember who. The guy can run for a SS.

by goheat on Dec 9, 2009 1:12 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Bell also ran down D. Williams in the Carolina game

He has a good top speed but he seems like he gets out of position way too often. Thankfully his athleticism allows him to cover his faults to a degree.

by Vanman_FishFan13 on Dec 9, 2009 9:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good post Matty but....

you lost me with the Long/Henne combo pick.

As I’ve posted before, that argument isn’t valid becasue the Dolphins picked Merling with the #32 pick. Any use of the combo pick argument comes down to sheer DUMB LUCK on the part of the Trifecta that he was even there that late late in the 2nd rd – and after Brian Brohm no less. A huge gamble that paid off the end.

by crossborderFISHingtrip on Dec 9, 2009 9:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to SB Nation's community dedicated to the only franchise in NFL history to have an undefeated team: the Miami Dolphins!
Start posting about the Dolphins »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Comcast NFL RedZone Moments from SB Nation

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Peezy_small
Why CJ Spiller is the Solution
Small
Realigning the NFL Version 1
Godfather_avatar_small
DRAFT IDEA - CODENAME: AWESOMENESS!!
Phinarty_small
Special Teams Free Agents - Updated on March 9th at 9:28pm EST
Small
Geographic advantages and thoughts on league-wide realignment

Recent FanPosts

Small
Dolphins better do this!
Small
let me tell u about "character guys"
Foy_medium_small
Zach Thomas Fan Page
Small
A Dominant NT
Dez_small
The Real Deal
Dez_small
Dez Bryant is looking ever so likely
19420011_small
Should Fins trade Ronnie Brown to Chargers?
Dolphins_game1_small
NT Options??

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

Dawgs By Nature
Around the Pound (3/12): TE Ben Watson Signs, Heiden Cut; Holmgren Comments on QB Situation
Arrowhead Pride
Friday Night Open Thread
Canal Street Chronicles
Mickey Loomis Press Conference Transcript: Saints State of the Union

Managers

Phinsider_s_small Matty I