Why Wake/Turner don't get snaps
by DolphDallas on Dec 24, 2009 3:27 PM EST
22 comments
From Omar Kelly's Sun-Sentinel Blog He gives his own observations from Fins' Thursday practice...
Dolphins rookie WR Patrick Turner continues to struggle getting off the line of scrimmage against press coverage. I highly doubt he plays in a game this season considering he's not a strong special teams contributor. If Turner doesn't get his issues fixed by training camp next season I don't see him sticking on the 53-man roster.
Cameron Wake regularly gets abused in pass coverage during individual drills and if you watched him get roasted by tight end Anthony Fasano and practice squad tailback Tristan Davis you'd understand why he's strictly used on obvious passing downs. However, I expect Wake will have a big role in this game considering the Texans use a lot of three receiver sets. Don't be surprised if the Dolphins unleash the former CFL standout is they get an early lead.
Not good new for Patrick Turner, but it seems that Wake could get on the field if they used him as a down lineman more (how many down linemen cover TEs and RBs anyway?)
I am curious to see what Kory Sheets and Tristan Davis could give us both as running backs and returners. Seems like they could add some speed and explosiveness to the offense even just on some short passes and screens. I'd put Lionel Dotson on IR and bring up Tristan Davis for a look-see. Dotson is not going to get on the field anyway. Use Sheets and Davis as Tailbacks who line up in the slot and have the option of coming in motion as a wildcat or slipping backwards at the last second into a traditional tailback position (Henne would need to be in the Pistol formation) SEE BELOW
From the slot (wildcat motion)
WR _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _LT LG C RG RT TE _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ __ _ _TB - > _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _WR
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ QB
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _FB
Motioning before reaching the QB, retreating to the standard TB position
WR _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _LT LG C RG RT TE _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _WR
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ QB
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _FB
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _TB
Ricky would be effective from the FB position to take the inside handoff, but so would Lex or Lousaka (MORE CARRIES for Lex and Lousaka) and Ricky could take some snaps from the TB position as well since he wouldn't necessarily be locked into the JET SWEEP option.
I'd also like to see Ginn and White in the slot as the TB, they could really threaten the EDGE and open up the handoffs up the middle.
If the TB ran a fly down the field, he could stretch the defense and open up the receivers for catches underneath.
What do you think?
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i read
that article about pat turner as well and a previous one stating he was getting owned by nate jones its disappointing to hear this point in the season but if hes not gonna pan out i hope the trifecta admits they made a mistake and cut him loose so we can draft dez bryant
and i would also like to see sheets gets some reps but dont get ahead of yourself
I do trust the trifecta more than you but...
I do not trust Dan Henning at all. The game has passe him by. Get him out of there and promote David Lee.
8-8 is a victory at this point!
Great Question: I would start with Gibril Wilson (who would be a fan favorite to deactivate)
Jason Allen backs up Clemons at FS and Tyrone Culver backs up up Bell.
Or I would consider Joey Haynos, if Fasano gets injured, just use Nate Garner as the eligible T (blocking inline TE) or the three wide set. I would also consider Charlie Anderson and use Wake more alternating on both sides. Quentin Moses is a possibility. Evan Oglesby?
They have had Cobbs, Hilliard, Brown, and Williams all active before, so I know it is possible.
Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.
As much as you and everyone else wants Wilson to ride the bench it's not going to happen.
They’ve already tried putting Clemons in as the starting FS. He lasted a whole one and a half games, before they put Wilson back in.
If at first you don't succeed, try try again...
except that Wildcat Pass with Ricky.
No more of that
Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.
by DolphDallas on Dec 24, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
How much more of a liability could Clemons be?
We got down 24-6 with Wilson in there.
Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.
by DolphDallas on Dec 25, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, not that it was all Wilson's fault.
But it could have been 48-6 with Clemons back there, and I think that is what the FO is worried about. Clemons may be fast, but that doesn’t mean the guy can tackle or read routes effectively. The FS is usually your last line of defense between the offensive player and the goaline. When a FS misses a tackle, gets beat deep, or runs himself out of position, it’s likely to result in a TD. If the FO thought Clemons gave them a better defense, then he’d still be starting. but obviously what they saw in the game and a half he did start didn’t impress them, and they felt they were better off with Wilson.
The problem isn't Clemons play,
but Wilson’s leadership in the secondary.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
He's a SS, playing in a FS spot.
Put Bell in the same position and the roles would be reversed. You think it’s easy to lead a secondary with two rookie CBs? Not to mention, they only play man-to-man, so the only adjustments one would really need to make in the secondary is whether to play press or prevent.
As for Clemons play, it’s obviously a problem for the FO. Otherwise he would still be the starting FS.
Tristan Davis runs a 4.3 forty.
great videos
thanks
Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.
by DolphDallas on Dec 24, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
I could care less how well Wake can cover,
if it’s a pass then let him rush the passer, am I missing something?
Also, Porter rushes the passer like 85% of the time anyway. And, Wake had a few tackles for loss when he was playing a more against the Bills. Wake is one of our best players. Focus on what he does well – because, he does it better than anyone we have.
We wake & blunder on, / wiser, on the whole, / but not more accurate.
- John Berryman from THE DREAM SONGS #263
agreed
"You're gonna eat lightning, and you're gonna crap thunder!"
Rocky
by Davone_Is_BessT on Dec 25, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
With Houston and Pittsburgh up and with weak rushing offenses and suspect O-Lines...
should we go to a 4-man nickel line with nickel linebackers and a linebacker/rover (for the third linebacker…to be replaced by Nate Jones when they go to 3 WR)?
LDE Taylor / Moses
LDT McDaniels / Langford
RDT Starks / Merling
RDE Wake / Anderson
Ni-LB1: Walden / Ayodele
Ni-LB2: Torbor / Ayodele
Rover: Porter / Crowder / Nate Jones (Nickel)
Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.
by DolphDallas on Dec 25, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I think you'd start to care when teams start throwing RB flats to his side constantly.
A 3-4 LB can’t just be a pass rusher. He has to be able to drop into coverage. Otherwise it exposes a huge weakness in your defense. That’s why Pittsburgh and the Ravens have always had effective 3-4 defenses, all their LBs can cover and rush.
That's why we have 2 run stopping safeties...
make use of them I say.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
We already do that.
Which is why we continue to depend on our rookie corners to go one-on-one with WRs. Which is also why we have the 23rd ranked pass defense.
But that’s not going to help a lack of coverage ability by your LBs. You will not have a good defense in the NFL if you have to depend on your safeties to cover TEs and RBs.
LT, Kevin Greene, Derrick Thomas
and many other OLBs who were dominant pass rushers rarely dropped back in coverage, and it was usually filtered in over time since you want them attacking the line, and that game time playing gets them used to what happens out there, something you really can’t get in practice.
by uncle finster on Dec 26, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
LT could cover if asked, he had 9 career INTs.
But he also had Pepper Johnson, Carl Banks, and Harry Carson on the field with him. He never needed to drop into coverage.
As for Derrick Thomas, he played with pro bowl CBs in Dale Carter and Albert Lewis. So they could afford to bring up the safeties in coverage.
Kevin Greene is your best argument, at least while he played for the Rams. In Pittsburgh he played with Chad Brown, Levon Kirkland, Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, and Carnell Lake. In Carolina he played with Sam Mills, Lamar Lathon, Eric Davis, Michael Barrow, and Greg Lloyd. In SF, he played with Ken Norton, Gary Plummer, Merton Hanks, and Rod Woodson.
Of course you can have OLB who are pass rush specialists, but it’s only effective if you have the personnel to compensate for their lack of coverage skills. We do not have those players, so that is why they limit Wake’s snaps. Hell, he should technically be called a DE this year cause he’s taken more snaps as a DE than he has a LB.
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