Improving the Defense...

by DolphDallas on Dec 11, 2009 4:05 AM EST Comment 12 comments

by getting Cameron Wake ON the field and getting Gibril Wilson OFF the field.

What is keeping Wake off the field?

Some possible reasons:

He is more comfortable with his hand on the ground, inexperienced covering TEs (not like the other safeties and linebackers have been doing that great anyway), and maybe raw versus the run.

Is there a way to get Wake on the field playing to his strengths and hiding his weaknesses? What if the other team passes on first down? That's not a clear passing down, but if Wake gets a sack on first down, then all the other downs become passing downs and he gets more opportunities. Talk about a drive stopper.

My idea: Go to a 5-man Defensive line. The defense would play like it would in a Nickel set up only with a 5-man line instead of 4. The defense is basically a 5-1-5.

Take Bell and Wilson out and put Culver and Clemons at Safeties.

I put Jason Taylor/Quentin Moses at LOLB/DE and put him over the TE. If the TE switches sides, then Taylor/Moses switches with the TE and Wake/Anderson swaps to the other side. Therefore Wake stays out of pass coverage. I don't advocate Taylor/Moses always on the TE, since the TE could also be covered by one of the nickel linebackers or strong safety. The five man line (at least on paper) looks great if all five rush and should be able to hold up against the run even if Wake may be weaker/smaller in size (is Joey Porter that much better against the run anyway?)

You automatically lose pursuit to the edges, so I would advocate inserting Fast/Good Tackling Jason Allen as a nickel linebacker/rover and back him up with Erik Walden who is also a fast-athletic guy (as proven on special teams). There are teams that run their nickel 4-2-5 full time, so this is not completely revolutionary. It would be a challenge stopping the run with just the front 6, but the advantage is that you would be able to get Randy Starks (and the other D-Linemen) into more one-on-one isolation matchups and that's a plus for pass rush as well as tackles for losses in the run game. We have above average D-Linemen (including OLBs) and mediocre linebackers, so it makes sense to use more D-linemen and less linebackers if possible. Replacing Bell and Wilson with faster players Clemons and Culver should provide sufficient pursuit to the edges of the defense which is the main weakness of a 5-man D-Line. The intermediate pass coverage should improve with Jason Allen helping out in coverage on the TE or backs out of the backfield instead of Crowder or Ayodele.

Here's my lineup/assignments:

OLB-DE Taylor/Moses (following

DT-DE Langford/Baker

DT McDaniel/Soliai

DT-DE Starks/Merling

OLB-DE Wake/Anderson

LB - Torbor/Ayodele/Crowder

Rover LB - Jason Allen / Erik Walden / Ayodele

LC Davis/Jones

RC Smith/Oglesby

SS Culver

FS Clemons

Note: versus 3 wide receivers, Langford/Baker comes out and Nate Jones/ Evan Oglesby comes in to make it a 4-1-6.

We get more WAKE UP in our Defense. Get to actually use Jason Allen's (and Erik Walden's) more athletic/speed talents as an impact player-maker. Improve the pass rush and free Randy Starks to make more plays one-on-one.

Thoughts?

Poll

What should we do on defense?

Stay the Course. We did beat the Pats didn't we?

4 votes

Let's try the 5-1-5. We need more WAKE UP in our D! Nice use of Jason Allen

10 votes

We need changes, but these aren't the changes we need.

16 votes

30 votes | Poll has closed

This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.

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Comments

no offense dude but this is a pretty stupid idea

You want this to be our base defense? you nuts were gonna get carved up the entire middle of the field is going to be wide open. wake is going to get his chance just take a chill

Can't wait untill Sean Smith puts Randy Moss on his ass lol, Co-Vice President of the official Matty I fan club.

by jojo phin fan on Dec 11, 2009 4:16 AM EST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Wake's not able (yet) to read all the packages put forth by O's.

And I don’t think the D is able to keep switching roles. Some of the guys, maybe.

The biggest fool that ever hit the big time -and all I gotta do is act naturally.

by Tunaflipper on Dec 11, 2009 4:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, you're likely to get killed by screens and RB flat routes.

Teams do use packages similar to the one you’re describing, but only in certain passing situations. If you tried it full time, you’re just asking to get gashed in the running game.

by luvs2drnk on Dec 11, 2009 4:57 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm willing to take the risk to get gashed in the running game as opposed getting gashed in the passing game.

And there is no guarantee that they would get gashed in the running game if our D-Line is getting penetration because they are winning their one-on-one matchups with the O-Line. Actually, I think you might see more tackles for losses in the run game. My biggest concern is pitch plays to the outside, where the CBs have to maintain contain and the Safeties have to pursue to the edge. Fortunately, both Clemons and Culver have the speed to do so, as does Jason Allen.

Look, this formation really isn’t that exotic. Play Akin Ayodele instead of Jason Allen and you are looking at our 3-4 defense (with McDaniel and Soliai at NT and with Wake with his hand on the ground).

Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.

by DolphDallas on Dec 11, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

JT cant cover a TE

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

T.Lex doesn't want to be fed, he wants to hunt. Can't just suppress sixty five million years of gut instinct.

by Patssuck456 on Dec 11, 2009 8:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Neither can Bell, Wilson, Ayodele, nor Crowder, so what do we have to lose (and we gain pressure on the QB)?

JT actually does it once in a while. Haven’t actually seen it with my eyes, but I’ve heard that it is true.
JT and Moses are probably better off jamming the TE hard at the line, and then rushing the QB or once in a while dropping back to try to pick off a pass in the passing lane (THIS JT can do!). Culver will have to take the TE. He’s okay. Not great, but okay.

Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.

by DolphDallas on Dec 11, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I think the details are a bit overwhelming for Wake...

Every press conference Sparano talks about how he should have Wake in more often, but it looks like he only has a limited bit of situations that he can comfortably put him in. I’m sure Wake is getting better, but right now he’s in for strictly pass rushing. I have no doubt with the way he’s playing his role will become a bit bigger.

If I'm a chicken, you're a turkey....

by Heater OsE on Dec 11, 2009 8:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with this formula.

That said, Wake MUST play a lot more on 1st and 2nd. When Porter plays, he’s rushing the QB 90% of the time anyway. Wake is twice the pass rusher that Porter is at this point. Keep the D-line as is. Keep Taylor on the outside, but spell him more with Moses. Put Wake opposite, and spell him – here and there – with Anderson and Porter (I’m over JP). Crowder is still our best ILB, so we can’t take him out of the equation. But, here’s where an innovative DC has the opportunity to go to town: Bell and Wilson have both played great along the line of scrimmage, and both have struggled playing deep (a lot of that, though, has to do with scheme). I say we sub out AA for the sake of playing 3 safeties. Bell and Wilson can alternate as the 7th and 8th men in the box, and Clemons is a true FS. This allows us to really disguise our schemes, and Bell and Wilson are both MUCH better around the line of scrimmage than AA. In this situation, we put our best players on the field, playing to their strengths. Also, as bad as Bell and Wilson have been in coverage, they’re both much better in coverage than AA.

We wake & blunder on, / wiser, on the whole, / but not more accurate.

- John Berryman from THE DREAM SONGS #263

by sister_ray on Dec 11, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like it.

I like the way you came up with the appropriate defensive scheme to match the players we have rather than trying to match the players to your scheme.

Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.

by joel311 on Dec 11, 2009 7:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks, I think of it in terms of Buddy Ryan's legendary 4-6 defense (with less gambling on the back end)

Tony McDaniel lines up over the center, Langford and Starks line up over the guards and the OLBs Taylor and Wake line up outside of the Tackles. Torbor and Allen cover the gaps between G and T. Provided that Langford and Starks can control the G in front of them (or shoot the gap if the G pulls), Langford/Starks can plug the gap to either side of them.
This disposition of defense in a 5-1-5 is not without holes or weaknesses, but it is not like our base 3-4 defense is exactly dominant or air-tight either. The safeties and secondary gamble less yet get more pressure due to extra linemen. You just need athletic linemen who will pursue the play sideline to sideline and not yield their gap. I think we have that. And we have depth too.

Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.

by DolphDallas on Dec 11, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs