The Patriots' 4th & 2

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 8:34 PM EST Comment 41 comments

If there was any doubt at all about ESPN's north eastern bias they removed it today.

So I was watching the game and of course like everyone else I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The Pats on their own 28 were going for it on 4 & 2. All I could think about when they were lining up was New England's smug arrogance has no end. There was no defending this decision, so I thought. Then I watched ESPN today.

I wonder how long people stood up and calculated numbers to try to defend "Bill the Genius" decision to go for it. I guess they got to have some poeple to disagree so they can have some discussion to pass air time, but come on. You can throw out all kinds of percentages/numbers all you want to make it say what you want. Common sense has to take over sometime.

Then they want to use well Belichick has "Tom Brady as his QB". I don't care you if you have the greatest offense in NFL history. Here is some numbers with common sense for ya - 4TH DOWN + YOUR OWN 28 + LESS THAN 2 MINUTES + UP BY 6. Lets do the math, Cam Cameron could add that up to YOU PUNT.

It's really sad they had to think that there was some great thinking behind Belichick's decision. There is nothing behind that way of thinking but a pompus, arrogant, ass who got what he deserved in the post game conference. I loved it. Did you all see him up on that stage, moving, looking all around? He knew his arrogance bit him in the @ss.

What else ESPN is failing to bring up in thier shameless, and i do mean they are sparing no shame in defense of their "god", is that the Pats defense really wasn't playinig all that bad. They made the Colts punt like 6 times in the 1st half. The first time thats been done in years. Not to mention Peyton wasn't having a great game by his standards. He threw 2 INTs, one EARLIER IN THAT 4TH QUATER. But if you give Peyton less than 30 yards, at home, with a little under 2 minutes, your gonna lose.

I'm sorry, I had to blow off some steam on this. I know its not all of ESPN, but I was totally shocked at how many of them actually tried to justify that play call.

Bottom Line:

I don't care if you are a rookie head coach or a head coach with 3 Super Bowl rings, when its 4th down deep inside your territory with the lead, especially at the end of the game, you PUNT. It doesn't matter how much a bias sports news channel tries to spin it, the rest of the counrty (probably world) knows you are a complete imbecile, or a pompus @ss if you don't.

This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.

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I second everything in your post.

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by Farorefox on Nov 16, 2009 8:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

lol ty, just can't believe how you defend something like that

I was so embarassed for them at times, I had to change the channel. That and I was just plain disgusted.-)

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if it results in a pats loss

its genius

by FishNFinz on Nov 16, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know

You are absolutely right.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell YEAH ; )

Just 2 games behind guys

I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)

by Aleta on Nov 16, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

DOLPHINS RUSH

by Acemmett on Nov 16, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was wondering

If I was the only one who thought he was being an arrogant Sommabiotch.
Either way it helps out the DOLPHINS. They went from a distant second to a close second in the division. BOTTOM LINE GREAT CALL BILL. lol

by MANDINGO_WRRR on Nov 16, 2009 8:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

In a league full of bad coaching decisions on a weekly basis

that was the dumbest call I may have ever seen! That whole series was totally stupid. Don’t forget about the wasting of TO’s after the 1st and 3rd down plays. I was stunned watching it on TV.

Now to ESPN. They are so far up the ass of anything and everything Boston or New York that most days they are unwatchable if something big happened in either of those cities. But I will give Trent Dilfer credit for calling out the stupidity of the call right after the game. He was harsh in his criticism as he should have been.

by ct1361 on Nov 16, 2009 8:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

AGREED

its like u disregard the first 58 min of the game and place it all on one play. u make it, yeah u win, but if u don’t, no question u lose. stupid…stupid…stupid

IAMLEGEND

by woomar on Nov 16, 2009 9:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

when I watched espn

last night they all were saying it was an incredibly stupid call , I guess corporate got to them by today lol

by finslifer on Nov 16, 2009 9:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

still

bellacheat got it in the ass, he looked like he was gonna cry aw boo hoo . not taking away from the talent on the team but your right their arrogance got the better of them

by finslifer on Nov 16, 2009 9:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bellichick has always been extremely arrogant , remember that 4&13 in the SB

against the Giants on Field Goal range? They failed that and ended up costing them the game. Arrogant SOB, it seems as if he is trying to make up for all the reputation lost on the spy gate debacle by trying to make radical “genius” calls. ha

by MauMontaV5 on Nov 16, 2009 9:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

However, you do have to acknowledge that had they punted, they would've given more than 2

minutes to Peyton Manning, who had been destroying them all 4th quarter long. Plus, one of the best offenses of the decade against a defense they had been man handling. So I’m not sure. I mean, I thought the reaction around here would’ve been different, having seen first handed what Peyton Manning can do to a team at the end of a game.

by MauMontaV5 on Nov 16, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather put the game on my HOF playmakers hands than on a full of youngsters on defense.

by MauMontaV5 on Nov 16, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, it was bout 1:50

And like I said they already intercepted earlier that quater.

here would’ve been different, having seen first handed what Peyton Manning can do to a team at the end of a game.

RIGHT, which make this decisiom even more idiot. At least make him do it. anythiing can happen on special teams. ALOT more can happen, fumble, another erratic int pass by Manning (he did throw 2 of them) when he is 75 yards away than 25 yards.

No coach in his right mind takes a chance at giving the ball back to Peyton Manning on your own 25ish. You put him on his 25 and yea it could be over.You put hiim on YOUR 25 and it IS OVER.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't agree

In most scenarios yes, but this one…I think the Pats had a better chance of converting on 4th down then they did of stopping Manning. The Colts offense was on a role and I don’t think any defense would have stopped them, definitely not the Patriots defense. I think I would have trusted the Pats offense more than their defense in this situation, but it was a very very tough call. You and the media are making it look like it was a terrible call (which it would be in most scenarios) but I really think it was a tough decision. I don’t disagree with the call.

by kcorona4 on Nov 16, 2009 9:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Also,

Manning’s previous interceptions are irrelevant. One slipped out of his hand and the other was a miscommunication. It’s not like he was throwing poorly and had an increased chance of playing poorly on the last drive. The Colts offense was playing really well at the end, and Manning is and has been phenomenal in situations like that before. So seriously, wouldn’t you consider going for it with Brady, Moss, Welker, Watson, Faulk, etc on your offense to just get 2 yards, rather than take your chances trying to stop Manning?

Just my attempt at defending the call, as I said before I think it was a really tough call to make and not a bad call.

by kcorona4 on Nov 16, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Manning’s previous interceptions are irrelevant. One slipped out of his hand and the other was a miscommunication

And I suppose that couldn’t happen again.

So seriously, wouldn’t you consider going for it with Brady, Moss, Welker, Watson, Faulk, etc on your offense to just get 2 yards

Not on my own 28 and Ii just saw that they could get 10 yards on 3 plays and couldn’t get the 2 yards the previous. You don’t play 58 minutesfor a six point lead and have a chance to give that lead aways on one play. I and most people would make him play the full 60 minutes. He did need a TD not a FG

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the interception is still irrelevant

because there is no increased chance of him having another interception. it would be the same chance as if the interception never happened, don’t you get it??? think about it bro!

by kcorona4 on Nov 16, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What I get is that no INT is irrelevant

I can also see when a QB is not having his best night.

Increased yardage to go = more than likely more plays = greater chance of a iNT or fumble.

don’t you get it??? think about it bro!

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes of course increase yardage = increase chance of turnover DUH

that’s not my point. my point was that you made the argument that his previous interceptions meant that he’s not playing that well so don’t worry about giving him the ball. BUT he wasn’t playing poorly!!! there is no INCREASED chance that he would have had another interception, HENCE your argument makes no sense. this time… THINK!

by kcorona4 on Nov 16, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that he’s not playing that well so don’t worry about giving him the ball

Never said that. Of course you gotta be concerned when he has the ball. But aren’t you suppose to be this great defensive minded HC? don’t they always peg this game as ‘Peyton vs Belichick.’ Like a chess game?

I’ve seen Peyton on his game, we all have. You can’t tell me he was having his typical ’Peyton Manning game"

Besides, I don’t care if it was Peyton Manning or not. When you are up by 6 you don’t take a chance of putting ANY team on your on 28 with the game on the line. Just plain arrogance. No other team in the NFL would’ve done that. not even the great Peyton Manning or the Saints.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CHECK THIS OUT

by Acemmett on Nov 16, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

let keep that in a safe place cuz it gonna can in handy

by Acemmett on Nov 16, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

alright

i never said it was the right call, I’m sort of playing the devil’s advocate. i just don’t think it was a terrible call. it certainly was a little arrogant, but it also could have been a fear of the colts offense. i guess we’ll have to agree to disagree

by kcorona4 on Nov 16, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fair enough

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WHERE TOM BRADY IN THIS

by Acemmett on Nov 16, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hehe

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if the field position was different Ii could see a argument

but not on your OWN 28. You just don’t do that.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you're right, no team would do that

unless you’re the pat’s offense trying to keep the colt’s offense off the field. haha, you’d have to at least consider it. but heck let’s just celebrate the fact that the pat’s lost!!!! and for the first time in my life i will be rooting for the jets next week, as they are playing the pats. J-E-T-S…..anyone?

by kcorona4 on Nov 16, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

O I am

but when you can hate on the Pats why not?

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way, the title should read "The Patriots' 4th & 2"

by MauMontaV5 on Nov 16, 2009 10:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I will correct that then

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

Sparano yelled to the next receiver, imploring him to, "go get the (expletive) football."

by Neo on Nov 16, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

First and foremost, the result is all I care about: Pat's Loss + Dolphins win..

now if Neo wants to debate the semantics of the pats call, by all means let’s do that.

First off, I disagree with this Neo’s premise of:

“when its 4th down deep inside your territory with the lead, especially at the end of the game, you PUNT.”

Actually I mostly agree, but with a slight caveat.

A) If it is 4th and inches, and B) your defense shows no sign of stopping the other teams offense.

Look 4th and inches conversion rates are over 85%. Do you take an 85% chance to win the game by converting the 4th down OR figure your D has an 85% chance to stop a long TD drive with little time left?

Once you get to 4th and 2 though it drops to about 60% and that’s a huge difference. Do you think your D has only a 60% chance of stopping an 80 yard TD drive?

It was a bad call on many levels.

But if it had been 4th and inches + the colts O being unstoppable (which it had not been) – then I think going for it makes sense.

by Natalya on Nov 17, 2009 12:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs