Will the REAL Pat White, please stand up!
What's that? You ARE standing up?
hehe.. sorry, couldn't resist the short joke.
However, it seems lately that "Pat White" seems to come up as a topic of discussion in almost every FanPost on The Phinsider, so I thought it would be a good idea to give the discussion a place of it's own.
There has been a lot of talk lately about how Pat White was a "wasted pick"; how we would have been better off taking a player at a position of need, like Linebacker, with that 2nd rounder. And a lot of the recent disillusionment has a lot to do with the fact that White is not immediately contributing. As a matter of fact, many of us here have felt that, the few times the coaches have tried to get him into games, he actually had a negative impact on the offense - stopping drives, and stifling momentum. And you can include me, to a degree, in feeling like White has been more of an experiment by the coaching staff, rather than a role player with any particular role to play.
While all of this criticism is certainly reasonable, and probably fair, there is still another side to the story. One that many Dol-Fans, myself included, have either forgotten, or of which they were never aware.
When Pat White was working out at the Combine, prior to the draft, there was a LOT of interest in him by quite a few teams; the putrescent and perennially annoying Patriots among them (look it up, I had to to write it).
And the interest was not just about the Wildcat, or moving him to another position. During the QB drills, it was White who seemed to come away the clear winner:
White put up what appeared to be the strongest throwing performance of this year’s scouting combine. This coming from a player who had been projected as an Antwaan Randle El type – a future NFL wideout with occasional passing gadgetry.
But after appearing to outshine USC’s Mark Sanchez in drills, he might have changed some minds.
As expected, White ran the best 40-yard dash of any quarterback at the combine, notching times in the 4.48-4.54 range. But he opened eyes when he began throwing, working out in the same quarterback group with Sanchez. White squared up well and showed a good arm, particularly on a set of out routes, which typically separate the best quarterbacks from the pack. He delivered with good timing, and appeared to have consistently good ball placement.
"I think he showed that he can be a legitimate quarterback prospect," said an NFC assistant coach who watched White’s workout. "If you cover one eye and just watch where the football is going, I don’t think you would question the skill level there. But the whole package is where you uncover that eye and say, ‘OK, he’s not the [ideal size].’ Then you have to get into some judgment calls."
...of all the quarterbacks who threw on Sunday in Lucas Oil Stadium, none looked better than West Virginia's Pat White, the record-breaking senior passer who many have been trying to project as anything but a quarterback.
White threw the ball accurately and with authority in his quarterback group, looking poised and comfortable in an unfamiliar setting that has thrown many a highly-ranked quarterback off his game. White was especially strong in throwing deep outs, which always catch the eye of NFL scouts.
"I'll tell you who looked good today and that was Pat White,'' one longtime NFL offensive assistant coach told me. "He really helped himself with that workout. He made people recognize him as a quarterback.''
"He was sharp and he made all the throws you want to see,'' another NFL talent evaluator told me. "Our quarterbacks coach said he looked better than most people anticipated.''
And even right before the draft, Mike Mayock (who I personally would rather listen to an opinion from than goofy haired Mel Kiper, any day!) had this to say about White:
"Pat White is not a gimmick,'' Mayock said. "He's the type of kid who you want the ball in his hands. I don't care if he's running it, throwing it, or catching it. I want the ball in his hands. Some teams like him as a quarterback. I'd take him in the second round with no hesitation, use him as a Wildcat this season, and try to develop him as a full-time quarterback, because I think he's got that kind of ability.''
Now, that doesn't mean that everything is roses. White is still much smaller than your typical NFL quarterback... and I'm not just talking height. Because he is so sleight of frame, there are questions about his durability. But almost every talent evaluator that discussed White after his performances in the Senior Bowl and at the Combine generally agreed with this comment from Paul Burmeister (host of NFL Network's College Football Now and Path to the Draft):
....he really impressed people with how well the threw the football. He has a natural rhythm, nice touch, and better velocity and arm strength than people gave him credit for at West Virginia.
Having said that, there are some legit concerns with him being a full-time QB -- he is under six feet and less than 200 pounds. There are no starting QBs in the NFL at that height and weight. Two, he was not operating an NFL offense at West Virginia. The concern there is he spent very little time under center. So the height/weight thing, and the majority of his training being in the shot gun, are real concerns. I think he has impressed enough the last few weeks, though, that teams are intrigued by him. He won't get out of the second day. I think he's a second-round pick. Then the fun begins, because an offensive coordinator has to figure out a way to develop him as a QB and utilize all of his talents.
So read that last part again - "Then the fun begins, because an offensive coordinator has to figure out a way to develop him as a QB and utilize all of his talents."
Boy, do I feel stupid. Of course that's what they are doing now! They have an exceptional athlete, who by all accounts, is an exceptionally talented QB - he has accuracy, arm strength, and seems to make good decisions. But he needs to learn the Pro Style offense, and the coaching staff is going to be tinkering with him this year and probably into next to figure out two things:
1) Can he play QB full time and be successful?
2) Where else can they utilize his unique skill set?
Personally, I would like to see him returning kicks while they are trying to figure out where to work him in on offense. that is nothing against Pat White; his skill set; or his desire to play QB. But when I ask myself, "Self! Where do you think Pat White could help this football team today, taking into account his entire skill set, and the reality of how long it will probably take him to develop into being able to play QB?", the answer seems obvious. He has sub 4.5 speed, great hands, and is a shifty little son of a gun! Don't believe me? Watch this!
.
I'd love to see him back there taking returns to the house, but whatever the staff does with him in the meantime, I am sure he will be a play maker and an asset to the team.
It just might take some time....
-LCFF
This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.
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Comments
If Ginn could make cuts like that, he'd be Devin Hester
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 9, 2009 11:53 PM EDT reply actions
That would be too good to be true!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
All I kept thinking watching that video is why do they have him go in there and just
hand off? I would think I would put him in and have him roll out of the pocket. He seems to be able to throw on the run just fine and if theres nothing open he can just take off. Once the defense starts biting on the roll out then he hands it off in an end around to Ginn. It really appears as if hes not being used correctly!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
i know, huh?
he can really run and make guys miss. let him bootleg.
i still think he should be returning kicks in the meantime
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Hell its worth a try at this point!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
thanx for the perspective lefty
i really havent been for or against pat white. Ive just felt kinda blah about him. I think you hit the nail on the head when you quoted
. Then the fun begins, because an offensive coordinator has to figure out a way to develop him as a QB and utilize all of his talents.
So there in lies the problem. We need an O.C. confident and creative enough to bring out the best in P White for us. We KNOW thats not Dan Henning. After all, he wasnt even the origionator of the wildcat, he just calls for it 12 times a game. Maybe someone else on the coaching staff can step up and say “Hey you need to do this with White” and maybe Henning can come out of his Senility long enough to do it.
Theres no doubt he’s an exciting runner, i would love to see him returning kick offs/punts. Did you see how he threw that defender off with the pump fake….it wasnt even a pump fake, he put his whole body into it. Even i thought he was going to throw it. Very exciting stuff, i just wish we could use him now! Good write up lefty, its been awhile since you posted, good to see one again!!
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
It sure makes you think!
I may have to let up on Sam although his man crush for PW is a bit much.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL
i was kinda thinkin about sam when i wrote it. I thought he would enjoy it, although he might have to read it in little pieces… you know, take a few days to get through it.
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, when he notices its about Pat he might just read the whole thing.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 1:35 AM EDT up reply actions
dont judge me!!!
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Its ok Sam! Calm down! No one here is judging you!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
8 1/2
yes (jim) it could have had more style!
free style 9 3/4 a little rough around the edges but over allnot bad!
by wild zion beaver on Oct 10, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea what that means beav!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
does anyone?
OFFENSE- Protect the Quaterback at all costs
DEFFENSE- Get to the Quaterback at all costs
I HART DOLPHINS
Beav does I think!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, he is making a joke about "judging"
=)
i gtcher back bev
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Ahh I see. Beav is always so abstract with his comments.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
if u don't understand then it's not ment for!
by wild zion beaver on Oct 10, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i believe he's critiqueing (however u spell that)
leftys post
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
scratch that
he was in fact juding sam. lol. actually very funny.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
lol damn
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Poor Sam!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks man, glad it gave you something to think about.
there just isn’t much to write about these days, that hasn’t been re-re-hashed. I think we are all kind of waiting to see the Fins really find their identity.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
thats a good way of putting it. although we have an identity, we are a ptr, stop the run team. Smash mouth, beat em up knock em down bunch. right? So we have it. i think we are more so just waiting for certain players to blossom (or be drafted)
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
I think more than anything right now we need some of the guys on the team
to step up and do what they are payed so very well for.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
oops
messed up that block quote a little bit, but you know what i meant.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
whats with the short jokes
we all know good things come in small packages
"Never let the competition know what your thinking"
Feringi rule of acquisition #85
yeah, im 6-3
the whole short things in small packages is for tiny nerds.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
ur 3 inches taller than me
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Me too but Im ok with that.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont think that nessacarly makes him a monster!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
but how much do u weigh?
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
175
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
LOL I dont think he was asking you.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
u skinny turd
u need to hit the gym!! i got 70 lbs on you!!
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
That is pretty skinny!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
lol that was mean
and i go to the gym every day!
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Sorry! Skinny but fit! Better?
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 14, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
i dont know if i believe that. U need to get some True Mass protein powder, that stuff will help you put on some weight.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
ok, i'll try it
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
or maybe ur just fat
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Ouch!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 14, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry
couldnt help myself
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
so how big is a diamond
"Never let the competition know what your thinking"
Feringi rule of acquisition #85
really?
i want to see a picture of you standing next to 3 yard sticks
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
LOL
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions
wow thats talll
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Im like Medic. I need to see a pic before I buy it.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Pat White
I think that they have been working with him and he looks much more comfortable under center now. Its a long season and he’ll get plenty opportunities to show what he can do. I’ll bet he gets us a win or 2 this season. I think Dolphans have become whiners lately because we haven’t had a good team for a while. The bottom line is that it usually takes a qb a while to acclimate to the NFL. Pat White has all the tools and then some.
"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."
Coach Paul Bear Bryant
at least someone else does!
can always count on the aussies
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Where in Oz are you?
I spent 6 months in Melborne about 10 years back. Wonderful counrty and wonderful people!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Excellent post as usual Lefty
The doubt with White here reminds of Hartline when the FO said out of ALL the WRs they auditioned that he impressed them the most,think about that for a minute,and he is really coming on strong even though many saw it as a wasted pick and a reach.
Our FO has been scary right concerning draft picks thus far and you would think they are due for some bums but they’ve been right a lot and we can only hope given time that White will be everything they liked and much more.
by firedanhenningnow on Oct 10, 2009 2:25 AM EDT reply actions
well said
they don’t have a great track record with FAs so far =)
but they have been pretty good with draft picks. they earn the benefit of the doubt, as far as I am concerned anyway.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
FA is another story!!
but they have not been that bad!!
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
Great piece of writing...
dammit, everyone REC this baby now. Get this man Mando’s job NOW.
Really, PW is a headache. A nice one (?!?). We are a PTR & stop the run team, grinding down the opposition thru attrition. But we are fostering talent in the background. Watch for Turner to emerge yet this season and using PW to help us score and throw defences off kilter.
Pogue Mahone Rex Ryan
already rec'd
actually, 1st rec.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
I love me some Pat White.
I have said all season that he is the new plan for the future and Henne is just a bonus if he works out!
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
ok, i'll admit it
im pat white
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Well if thats true then you need to quit friggin spending so much time here
and spend some more time practicing. Maybe then you will get to see some game time.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
no, this is more fun
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
go ask sparano to let you return kicks
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
no, then ppl will hit me
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Yeah!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Great post Lefty, but I do not and never have thought that the little shrimp Patty would make it in the NFL,
also I would like to point out what he did in college is absolutely, positively and indefatigably meaningless, what you do in college gets you signed to an NFL contract, end of story, there has been Heisman winners that have gone undrafted, there have been all world can’t miss QB prospects drafted in the top 5 that have been complete busts so college accomplishments are just that, college accomplishments, sports are no different than anything else, college does not prepare you for the real world.
Now you’ve gone and done it Lefty, I’m going to repost my Pat White post from the draft.
It must be said that this is written very well, as is all of your stuff, you are a key contributer on this site.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper
BandWaken
He didn't really mention the collegiate accomplishments,
he just showed a video of his skills. And those are definitely NFL level skills.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
I disagree,
and it’s not all said and done but he is proving that they are not NFL skills, have you ever noticed that most of Whites highlights are runs, he’s a QB but his highlight film is mostly runs, he has not been able to get any room to run in the preseason or regular so far, when you watch that highlight reel remember most of the guys he is playing against were never even offered consideration for the combine, so you can’t judge a guy playing against guy’s who couldn’t make it in ANY pro league.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper
BandWaken
by uncle finster on Oct 10, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
dude
I think you need to re-watch that highlight reel – 50/50 run/pass. In fact he is making amazing pass after pass, no fear of threading the needle between defenders and also many perfectly placed bombs. It seems that they are just getting his feet wet a little now, letting him see the speed and reactions of NFL defenses and then breaking it down with him on the sideline.
yeah, actually, at this point
aside from him learning and getting his feet wet, i think the coaches have not called plays that utilize his strengths. You do agree that he has strengths, right? I mean, he may not be a prototypical pocket passer, or a punishing inside runner, or a big bodied WR, but certainly you are not saying that he could play a scatback option role are you?
I think some of those plays in the highlight reel are WC type plays, with a wing in motion and White running the option. I mean, our WC has Ronnie in the shotgun, so the formation is similar.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I truly don't think he has an NFL position,
and I never have, when I first heard this bandied about on NFL network in february, about the Fins perhaps using a 6th rounder or so to take a flyer on White(thats where he was being considered back then) I literally laughed out loud.
From what I saw in college he was not a pro prospect, he should have done like Charlie Ward and joined the NBA, lol, too small for his speed, too slow for his size, however you like, and bottom line he’s not an NFL QB.
Don’t you notice he looks like an athlete playing QB, you should look like a QB, there are certain mechanics that an NFL QB should have, that he doesn’t, and thats what makes him look like an athlete playing QB, and the truth is that is exactly what he has always been and no one has tried to change it because it was working for them and they were winning, it’s the same story for all of the super athletic QBs.
And that is the same reason MOST QBs that fit his mold ARE NOT drafted to play QB, Smith, Cribbs and Randal el all had close to his rushing yds and are all at different positions, and it’s been going on for a while, remember Tony Martin, 2 stints with the Fins back in the day, we drafted him out of Mesa where he was a QB.
Pat White looks as uncomfortable and out of place under center as any player I’ve ever seen, no one would argue that he looks uncomfortable at least, correct me if I’m wrong here but that is one of the worst things you could say about a prospective QB, he doesn’t look comfortable under center, thats like having a NT who doesn’t look comfortable lining up over center, lol, not good.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper
BandWaken
by uncle finster on Oct 11, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude,
he looks uncomfortable under center? Are you judging this from the NCAA days or are you judging this from the first 3 games of his rookie season?
Your anti-White sentiments strikes me as a bit much. I can understand not buying into it, but I can’t understand this fervent evangelical denunciations of a highly talented individual before he’s had a chance to prove himself.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
Dude, he never lined up under center in college,
thats the problem, they weren’t trying to create an NFL QB, they were trying to win games.
I just don’t think he grades out as an NFL player, thats all, I’m not “anti- White”, I just don’t think he is an NFL player.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper
BandWaken
by uncle finster on Oct 11, 2009 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems a bit exagerrated...
While I agree you can’t rely too heavily on college accomplishments, they can’t be ignored as meaningless either. Of the past 37 Heisman winners, excluding Tebow and Bradford, only 1 went undrafted (Jason White). Now I’m not saying that translates to NFL success, that success rate for Heisman winners is about 25% or lower. But to say college doesn’t prepare you for the NFL, is grossly mistaken. How many players are there in the NFL who never played college ball? Can you name one in the last 20 years?
The point being is you have to prove it in the NFL,
no matter WHAT you did in college, college is just one stepping stone for NFL players, just like boot camp doesn’t prepare you for war, just like law school or med school or business school doesn’t prepare you for those professions the NFL is no different, school is school, life is life.
And you can see it in the Heisman picks and how successful they have been, most outstanding college player usually does not become an outstanding NFL player.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
Unofficial "Avatar Creator"
former Goof Trooper
BandWaken
by uncle finster on Oct 10, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It doesn't prepare you for everything,
but it does prepare you for the basics. Just as basic training teaches you how to shoot your rifle, law school teaches you the laws, med school teaches you the anatomy, business school teaches you how to manage, and college football teaches you how to catch, throw, tackle, depending on your position. Nothing prepares you for the uncertainties of real life, but if you had to pick someone to be in your squad, perform surgery, take your case, manage your business, or take you to the super bowl. And your only choices were people just coming out of training, wouldn’t you pick the guy who did the best?
Very good point and well written,
but my answer is the same as it is for everything, I would pick the guy I thought was going to be the best, and that is not necessarily the guy who did the best in school.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 11, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
But how are you going to base your assessment on who is going to be the best?
Wouldn’t you base that on what they did in college? I’m not saying you’re looking for the guy with the best stats, but you’d still be looking for something that they did while playing college ball that made you think they would be good. Which would in turn make what they did in college meaningful.
I'm not saying what they did in college is not meaningful,
what I’m saying is that regardless of what you did in college you must produce in the NFL, it is the same at every level, when you are recruited out of high school, what you did there will get you recruited to a college, once IN college no one cares what you did in high school because you have to produce here to keep your job.
In 1996 17 LBs were drafted ahead of Zach Thomas, 17, now Reggie Brown was a superstar at Texas A&M and because of that he was drafted with the 17th pick in the first round, 2 years later he was out of football, why, because while he was a great LB in college he sucked in the NFL and was sent packing, they didn’t care how good he was in college, they just replaced him, that is all I mean.
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by uncle finster on Oct 11, 2009 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason Zach slipped was based on the so called measurables.
He did not wow anyone at the combine but was a stud at TT.
Traslating the talent from the college level to the pros has got to be one of the hardest things there is to do. There are guys paid millions to do so and even they blow it from time to time.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That is exactly my point.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 12, 2009 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions
i think TCP was using the same point to show that it works both ways
his measurables may not be what you want, (like Zach) but his college play demonstrates ability in spite of that.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 12, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly! Drafting players is the most inexact sciences there is.
There are guys that are stars in college and have all the numbers at the combine and then bomb in the NFL. There are guys that do neither and somehow become stars in the NFL. Then there are guys like Peyton Manning who everyone said was a stud and he is! Zach was a mix of things good and bad coming out. Johnson drafted him because despite all the “experts” opinions that he would never play a down in the NFL (too small, too slow, ect..) he said that when you watch tape on the guy all he does is make plays.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
White was a VERY high profile pick,
higher than his high 2nd selection, Zach was a complete unknown mid 5th pick, he wasn’t even our first 5th rounder, lol, Zach was taken about 100 picks after White, I don’t think there is a real comparison here, unless your saying White should have been picked 154 like Zach was, and I would agree, lol.
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by uncle finster on Oct 12, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well seeing as there was a LB sitting there that we needed
then I think he should have not been picked at all.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That is true,
but he was talking about something different, I was in a discussion about how you go about picking, not why a guy slipped.
White was a high profile pick, Zach was not, but Reggie Brown was and he was not an NFL caliber player, that was my point, it’s not always the high profile pick that succeeds, and being successful in college does not automatically translate to NFL success.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 12, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I was sort of making the argument that theres no way to
ever know what a guy will become. That being said, I like you do not think he should have been picked or at least picked in the friggin 2nd round.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with everything you just said,
you never know about a player, but you still have a system for picking them and the better FOs draft better, they had to know this was a big risk, and can we really afford a pick like that?
Facts;
he’s very short.
he’s very skinny.
he has a loop in his delivery.
he has not played under center.
He is in the mould of QBs that have never made it in the NFL except that he is smaller and/or slower than those that came before him.
A mountain of questions and we already had Henne, there were other places that needed much more attn. then 3rd string QB in the 2nd round, i mean the friggin 2nd round, lol.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 12, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree and wish we could go back in time and
pick the LB instead!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
thanks brother
and as usual, your rebuttal is welcomed. =)
I agree with you about college; at least perhaps that it is “mostly” meaningless (how often do you have a complete failure in college go on to succeed in the NFL??).
Don’t misunderstand my post as being “pro-White”. I am just saying that smarter football folks than me all agreed that the kid had the kind of talent that would allow him to find a niche in the NFL, so unless you are smarter than them, football-wise, I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
But Lefty my friend,
there are many other guys who said what I’m saying, he was a wasted pick, pro-scouts, so there is another side to that coin, I’m not alone.
I also didn’t take it as pro White, like you said there is just so much talk about it lately it got me too, lol.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 11, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
okay finster, just read your other post.
you make some strong points, but it is extremely biased. You used his slowest combine numbers, and measure him against speed positions to say that he did not stack up well. His 40 times from all runs were actually between 4.48-4.54. If I am not mistaken, that is faster than any of our WRs except Ginn. And you pull one “expert draft opinion” but only provide the “negatives”.
Come on man. You gotta be fair. =)
It’s not like the kid has ZERO upside. There are too many people that had him pegged as a 2nd round pick to try to successfully pull off THAT argument.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
4.55 is his official NFL combine 40 yd dash time,
you take 2 runs and they avg. those out, for example if he ran a 4.50 and a 4.60 he would have a 4.55, even if the clocks are slow, he was judged against guys who ran against the same slow clock.
I judged him against speed positions because he is being asked by many(including you,lol) to play at one of those positions, Lefty, buddy, you can’t have him return kicks and say he’s fast for a QB, lol, now he just has to be fast, and in NFL terms he is not fast, he has ok speed, and for his speed he should be bigger, so for his size, he’s actually slow.
If I was writing a post on Pat White and who he is as a player you would be correct in saying it was biased, but it was a post on why I thought he was iffy, that particular expert opinion is what mirrored mine closest which is why I used it.
I think his college success has fooled many people, and I think he is one of those guys that generates unrealistic expectations, but I personally don’t think he has much upside at all, however if I’m wrong it wont be the first time, lol.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 11, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
He is faster than all of our WRs (not counting Ginn since he doesn't really seem to be a WR)!
he is not just fast for a QB, he IS fast. AND he has good vision, and makes good cuts. He is certainly a better prospect for KR than anyone on our roster.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 12, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
If he can catch the ball I would be in favor of trying it for at least a game to
see how it goes.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Lefty bro, he is not NFL fast,
sorry dude but that is not opinion, 4.5 to 4.6 speed is not fast, that is right where all our WRs are except Ginn, and whats the problem with our WRs, too slow, 4.2 is fast. 4.3 is fast, 4.4 is fast but once you start getting into the 4.5 area you are getting to the big guys who are not fast but can run you over, he is not fast, Ted Ginn is fast, Ricky and Ronnie are pretty fast, but White is not in the same league as those guys, he was fast in college in the NFL he is avg.
" if they hadn't of done, what I told em not to do... they'd still be alive" - Mr Blonde -
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by uncle finster on Oct 12, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Your correct but
I think hes just like most of us and desperate to find some use for a guy that cost us a valuable draft pick.
Desperation will make you do crazy things!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 12, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree.. line him up ar a wr and also try him out at returning kicks.
Its pointless to keep him sitting on the sideline doing nothing.. Activate him as our kr and if he was needed in an emergency (hene and thigpen both drop in 1 game) then you can still use him as the emergency qb. Its pointless to let a #2 sit there and do nothing.
Why isnt the FO using him at WR or something? Its obvious he is not going to be a serious QB threat in the NFL
Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!
CP10 you will be missed. Long live noodle arm ! Seriously, a great leader and I hope we see Coach CP10
I'm sticking with my assertion that Pat White will never be the Dolphins starting QB.
He could develop into a decent backup with time, but I still believe he was drafted solely to be a backup/wildcat/spread QB. As for returning kicks…..are you trying to get the man killed Lefty?
I agree that hes not going to be the starter because thats going to be Hennes job
for a long time! I hope!!!!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
U hope for Chad Henne!!
But are certain that White will NOT be a starter!! thats a big statement!
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
Its a statement. Not shure how big it is. We are all just making guesses.
Do any of us really know whats going to happen? If Pat White turns in to some QB god and I am wrong then I will be happy to be wrong as I love my Dolphins.
Its all just a guess brother!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I was making sure that i go it!
U r giving the axe to PW, even tho he hasnt play more than Henne, but u didnt do the same to Henne!
Wanted to make sure about it! Maybe theres more to it! ; )
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
Giving the axe?
Where do you get that from? Lets not get all friggin crazy and start putting words in to my mouth or making assumptions base on nothing. Did you even read my comment dude? I like every Dolphin fan hope that he becomes a contributor to this team at some point. At this point I think and I hope that Henne is the answer. If he is this does not mean that PW is useless nor have I made that assertion. If Henne does not work out then PW will get his shot. If hes not the answer and if that happens then the search continues. When I stated that it was just a guess for all of us thats pretty much me stating that this is what I think will happen but like you and everyone else I could be wrong. The trifecta have stated hes the future and the starter. At this point its all any of us have to go off of.
So wheres the dissagreement sir?
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Not reall a big statement..
Look at Whites size.. he is not what you would call your typical QB for the NFL.
Its not whits fault he was drafted as a QB.. its not his fault his college coaches put him behind center to “run” the offense. He is not going to be a top ranked Qb EVER in the NFL.
Ever
Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!
by MainePhinFan on Oct 22, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
he’s bigger than that Chris Williams cat!
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
yes i should be qb
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Yeah, maybe not!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this would be the perfect time to release something I found on the Phinsideror the PBP one day a few
months back.
I can’t find it now so I’ll give you a sammory, The trifecta have asked Pat White to NOT wear his gloves that he’s used in all of his college career and most likely in HS too. It is difficult for any Qb to get used to throwing it without gloves after using them for so long, let alone someone trying to get adjusted to the NFL.
That is all I wanted to say on this matter thanks for reading.
OFFENSE- Protect the Quaterback at all costs
DEFFENSE- Get to the Quaterback at all costs
I HART DOLPHINS
That was brough up the other day.
I still wonder how that affects him overall. Hes had all offseason and 4 weeks. Has he not made any improvement.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
*brought
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions
you know, i'm not really sure why they would care if he wears gloves
i mean, is it like “we want you to get used to playing without gloves in case there is a nuclear war and all the gloves in the world are destroyed, you will still be able to throw the ball”?
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
And at that point none of us are going to give a shit who the QB of the Phins are.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
okay, you lost me there...
i can usually keep up, but huh?
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 10, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Once theres a nuclear war none of are going to give a shit anyway!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
we'll be dead.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
More than likely!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
lol this is a bad topic
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Ive seen much worse!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
The topic being bad is a trend when we discuss Shrimp Patty.
Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!
CP10 you will be missed. Long live noodle arm ! Seriously, a great leader and I hope we see Coach CP10
by MainePhinFan on Oct 11, 2009 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Well Done!
But that is nothing new for you LCFF!
I liked the fact that Pat White is on the Phins. He needs to be on the Steve McNair plan. Sit for 2 or 3 years to learn the basics about QBing in the NFL. He needs to learn the playbook, how to take a snap, adjust to the speed of the game, etc. Pat White is a project. I just don’t know if you take a project as a draft pick in the 2nd round.
I still believe that when all is said and done, Pat White will be a better NFL QB than Chad Henne. Now that might mean that White sucks less than Henne, but he will still be better.
Agree!!
Why? cause PW has, almost, the same arm as Henne, maybe better. Plus he has great speed and quickness. There is more upside with White!
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
Remind me again the last time a quick QB with great speed won a SB?
Oh, that’s right. There has never been one. We don’t need another Kordell Stewart, Vince Young, Michael Vick, Steve McNair, Donovan McNabb, Randall Cunningham, Jamarcus Russell, etc. etc….
Remind me the last time,
an NFL RB taking direct snaps raped defenses?
The game is evolving so we can either innovate or get out of the way.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
Yes on the Wildcat but PW still has to prove he has something.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure he does,
but don’t cite history as a reason why he’s going to fail. This is the era of The Wildcat, the old rules no longer apply.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
Well so far he has no history and by the fact that he had barely seen the
field I assume the coaching staff does not think he is ready.
In the trifecta we trust!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats why the Trifecta drafted him! right?
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
I dont know why they drafted him and neither do you unless
of course you can read minds. In that case I apoligize and refer all things in the future to you.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
People don't like it when I recite history to back up my arguments.
Bad things happen, like when I kept reminding everyone about CP10’s history of never playing two consecutive healthy seasons. Now look what happened…..
History is important because it warns us about what can happen in the future!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be back in the early 1900's
Before the invention of the forward pass.
At this point he is still just a back up.
A lot of guys come in to the league with tons of upside and it never pans out. I pray that they find something useful to do with him so its not a wasted pick. Right now Henne is starting so I will pull for him and hope he becomes a guy that we can count on. If he proves to not be that guy then we will look elsewhere. If that happens and PW has improved enough for the trifectas liking then I am sure he will get his shot.
All the Pat White fans need to just relax. I am sure if he was blowing them away in practice he would be seeing the field more.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 10, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I beleive the PW fans are relax!
What i see is Henne’s fans blowing out PW!, even saying he is NOT a stater QB, even tho he havent play at all.
I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(22 years and counting)
Well I am not saying that so perhaps you should go find them!?!?!?
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 11, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
You forget that hes under 6feet tall and under 200 lbs.
You also fail to remember that his release looks like hes winding up to pitch a softball.
Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!
CP10 you will be missed. Long live noodle arm ! Seriously, a great leader and I hope we see Coach CP10
by MainePhinFan on Oct 11, 2009 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
You fail to remember that Shrimp Patty is under sized for a QB in the NFL.
You also fail to remember that his release looks like he is winding up to pitch a softball. I know a few people out there have this great hope that White will be the next Vick (- animal torture)
As for his arm being better thats not accurate either. He was the best at the combine, yes and we all heard that and thought “OMG YES !! I LOVE THIS PICK!!” then reality set in and we saw him play and practice and it boils down White is not that good of a QB.
Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!
CP10 you will be missed. Long live noodle arm ! Seriously, a great leader and I hope we see Coach CP10
by MainePhinFan on Oct 11, 2009 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Practice is Practice. And Whites a Hoser.
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!!
Bring Marino back from retirement!!!
One thing I've noticed about our FO that is seemingly different than others
is the way they handle and evaluate players and I think that stems from their confidence in their own abilities,complete trust in each other and not being worried about getting canned if they don’t win the SB immediately.That in no way means that desire or expectations are compromised but I do think it allows them to approach things a little differently.
Sparano said that Wake “wasn’t” a one year plan when asked about his development and if he thought he would be playing this well so quickly, said that in all actuality Ginn was really a rookie last year,he said that not me and since Clayton or Duper said last week that Ginn was never taught how to run proper routes and really be a WR and were willing to teach him it makes me think that the FO sees that as well and are content with grooming him because they feel he’ll work out.
I think they saw great upside in White all the while knowing he was going to be a project and it would take a lot of time and grooming but felt it was more than worth the risk and you simply don’t make that move unless you are very confident in your evaluations and ability to coach a guy up and have a “big picture” mentality vs. “If we don’t win it this year I’ll be looking for a job!”..they are in it for the long haul and I can’t tell you how good that makes me feel about our team going forward.
BTW Lefty,rec’d your posts is a given with me because regardless of your personal feelings concerning something you are somehow able to layout an unbiased and sensible post neither for or against your subject matter and that my friend is as rare as Hens teeth.
by firedanhenningnow on Oct 12, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions
lefty does put out great write ups
rec’d, again. oh wait what? i can only rec’d once?? eh oh well, just be happy with my one.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
hey man, thank you
i honestly appreciate that, because i try to to keep the facts distinct from my opinions about how i interpret the facts. i am glad it comes across that way. =)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't like the pick in April...
and I do even less now.
PW looks completely overmatched at QB and has no track record to speak of as a WR, not to mention less than impressive physical attributes even if we did want to try him at Wideout.
A 2nd round pick, a bad one, isn’t going to ruin your draft. I mean Sean Smith and V Davis have both been promising.
I think we can just say that this particular pick, the PW selection, looks worse by the day.
I 100% disagree with your last statement.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
The reason it doesn't look good
Is because they haven’t used him correctly. This last game was the first time they finally used him in a sort of spread formation, and it got us a first down. Although he didn’t sell it very well, he ran too soon, it still got the desired result. But it’s better suited for earlier in the game, should be run like 5 or 6 plays in a row, with a couple short passes and runs, then hit them with a deep pass when you catch the safeties cheating up.
i hope what you say is true, and we will see them find a way to use him productively.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Pat White will be the opposite of Ronnie...
ie he’ll pass more than he runs from The Wildcat while Ronnie runs way more than he passes. They’ll keep mixing it up both ways with both options once Pat White a little more acclimated to the offense. (the reason he ran on MNF was likely so opposing defenses don’t respect the pass the next time he hits the field)
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
good point
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
i am in the same boat with you nat
i didn’t like the pick in april, and i panic every time i see them stick him in a game.
HOWEVER, I am hoping that the guy in charge actually have a plan for his skill set, and will turn him into something productive for our offense.
If he wasn’t so skinny, i would have more confidence in him becoming a QB. He is actually about half an inch taller than Drew Brees, but about 12 lbs lighter.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't know Brees was so short!
I’m sure he can put on another 10-20 lbs.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
I'm gonna let this out...
I’m tired of hearing about White and Ginn. I get it. They suck. Three people in our fanbase actually like them. I think your article is good, but I won’t rec it cause I’m JUST SO DAMN TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT PAT WHITE. Zing bitches.
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!
come on, please rec it?
please?
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL!
at least i know you actually read it.
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't take seriously
the people who say Pat White sucks or Pat White hasn’t shown us anything etc.
He’s a developing rookie backup.
However, this is not a guy who was pretty good in college or had a good record in college, this is one of the best college QBs ever. He’s skinny blah blah blah… like the guys he was running through in college were little tiny skinny defensive linemen.
PW is the only QB ever to win 4 bowl games and he is the #1 college rushing QB of all time.
That is something.
Awesome College player
and while he hasn’t “proven” himself at the next level I don’t know of a player in the entire history of the NFL who has “proven” himself hero or zero after a mere 6 snaps,labling him either way this early is laughable IMO.
by firedanhenningnow on Oct 14, 2009 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions
lefty
how is it that your posts always reappear first on the list after being up for several days? you trickster you….but seriously…
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
I have noticed that too. Maybe if you update it!?!?! I dont know.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 14, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
somebody must have rec'd it
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Lemme make something clear
Over his 3 year career, Ted Ginn has 5 touchdowns. 5. Think about that for a sec.
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!
ok?
Self-proclaimed president of the Pat White and Brian Hartline fan club.
No hating on Jay Fiedler, please.
Official Back-Up Phinsider LOL'er.
The one and only "ho-nerd"
Extreme underperformance
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!
Actually he has 8 TD's.
And that’s in his 2 1/4 year career.
While I’m not real high on the guy myself, I’m giving him this year’s 13 games with Henne to make a true decision about him.
Are those all as a reciver?
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 15, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Farorefox did not clarify what TDs he was counting. So I assumed he was counting them all.
Ginn has 5 rec TDs, 2 rushing TDs, and 1 PR TD.
Ok, that sounds right. He still needs to increase his number of reciveing TD's.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 15, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I was only counting receptions, but 8 is still piss poor for 3 years.
I played Defense in soccer and had that many in 3 years.
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!
Yes 7 TDs in 2 years is piss poor for a #1 receiver.
But then again, Ted Ginn isn’t a #1 receiver, but gets matched against #1 CBs.
Plus he’s had noodle arm CP10, Cleo Lemon, John Beck, and Trent Green throwing him passes those two years.
So can you really blame the guy for only averaging 2 rec TDs a year?
You can’t say 3 years, cause this is his 3rd year, and he’s only played 4 games of it.
Let’s wait till he’s had the rest of th season with Henne till we make a final decision on Ginn.
My benchmarks for him this year are 1000yds and 7 TDs.
One, Two...
Yeah, two years.
Driver of the Make David Lee OC Bandwagon
Repentant Former Driver of the Trade-Ronnie-Brown Bandwagon.
farore - I thought it is goals, not TD's in soccer
Just think how stupid the average Jest fan is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider! ( a parody of a George Carlin line)
Attorney General of the Matty I Fan Club
Driver of the draft Brandon Spikes bandwagon
Goals/ Touchdowns: The main method of scoring. Potatoes, Potatos
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!
Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.
Thats quite undewhelming!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 14, 2009 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Thats 2 full seasons plus a playoff game and this partial year. That works out to
one TD every 7.6 games or about 2 a year. Not so impressive.
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 14, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
CRAP wrong post
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!
LOL I think I have done that before!
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 14, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
no, we were just getting ready to talk about Ginn.
=)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 14, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i hope not
its such a dead horse, my arms are tired of beating it. He is what he is. Luckily for him, he has chad henne to throw him bombs now.
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
off topic!
go post in the “Will Henne make Ginn better?” thread.
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 15, 2009 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
kill me now
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
there should be a disclaimer
“by clicking this link you agree to be part of more Ted Ginn debates”
2009 is a year of respect ladies and gentlemen. Lets get it.
"i think we have to look at it through his shoes" tuscanitunr talkin about brett farve.
13 1/2 phinsider fued points!!!
uh, no...
it reads: “By clicking this link, you agree that LCFF has brought up a relevant question, in light of last Monday night.”
;-)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 17, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons
by texascowpunk on Oct 15, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
All I heard was "suckage" and my mind instantly flipped to Ginn
Chief Stalker/ Lead Paparazzi of the official Matty I Fan Club
Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!

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