Trifecta, are you effing serious?

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 9:37 PM EDT Comment 130 comments

Profootball talk is reporting that Ted Ginn's playing time will be seriously reduced by the coaching staff.

But what caught my attention was this:

"Mort also said that, if the trade deadline were tomorrow instead of last Tuesday, the Dolphins would be dialing up the Ravens and offering Ginn to the team whose offensive coordinator, Cam Cameron, drafted Ginn in 2007 with the ninth overall pick."

Wow.

This means that unlike 99% of this site's most knowledgeable members, the people in charge of making decisions on the Dolphins building did think Ginn's "impressive" game against the Jets was finally his "breakout" as an NFL receiver.

First of all, we already knew he has that speed so it didn't come as a surprise that he beat Revis on what basically was a 100 meter race type of effort. Thus, this didn't make anything to bring confidence about his development as a true NFL receiver. Being a go to guy, route running, confidence, wanting the ball, being clutch, effectiveness on short and medium situations, going up the middle, taking hits, etc... Still, some people wanted to crown him for that one good catch, but overall everybody remained skeptical reasonably enough.

However, what really gets me, is these guys' (I refuse to call the "trifecta" anymore) inability to see that Ginn is just not an NFL receiver. All training camp every single person that writes about the dolphins and the coaching staff decided to hype up Ginn like it was the second coming. Sparano saying he was being "dominant" (I think about it and I feel humiliated). The season came around and Ginn was still the same scared player running around being a complete non factor. Then, a couple of weeks later everybody seemed to agree that that ship had sailed. Even if there was one big catch here or there, Ginn was not a number one wide receiver, plain and simple. Everybody knew this by know, that is why nobody was impressed by Ginn's catch against the Jets. Same old Ginn, disappeared all game long being a non factor. Well, it seems that not everybody felt that way. Apparently the Front Office and the coaching staff were dumbfounded by Ginn's super duper impressive outing against the Jets.

So it's as easy as this. Yesterday Ginn had another bad game as a Dolphin. Nobody was surprised or bewildered because we have seen this guy play for nearly 3 years now and we know that he just can't play. He was the same Ginn from 1 week ago, from 2, 3 or 4. Same old Ginn. So you are telling me that it took yesterday's game for Parcells and the other two to figure out that Ginn can't play? By Mortensen's comments, who is really close to Parcells, it is clear that the Dolphins wondered about trading Ginn for a valuable pick or couple of picks but didn't because of one "strong" outing.

Now, just one game after they decided not to trade Ginn, they are relegating him to a secondary role in the offense and there is even talk about releasing him, because needless to say, his trade value is non existent from now on.

It just shocks me to finally see that the people in charge of the dolphins, the one's many around here blindly worship, had their eyes covered about Ginn and refused to open them, until it was too late.

This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.

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well said bro

-"No excuses, No explanations"
-Pennington is a hand tuxedo
-Matty's new assistant

by MiamihastheDolphins.... on Oct 26, 2009 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you just said what "most" of us have been thinking! Thank you and rec'd.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

?

Dude….this is an opinion of Mortenson….not a statement by the team.

Waht would you like for Ted Ginn Jr? Cuz I’ll tell you what hes worth….a late 2nd day pick…and only to a few teams.

If you think a punt/kick returner is worth a late draft pick….then you agree keeping him even if he just returns kick is smart.

He’s a shitty reciever….thats proven…but if your solution is to trade him JUST CUZ…then youd make a crappy GM…and youd make a lot of mistakes acting out of anger.

Keep him…let him return kicks….get started on planning life without him as a WR on this team you can count on for more than a few deep bombs…like Pitt does with this Mike Wallace guy.

Hes a bust…PROVEN….but cutting him or tradin him for nothing…then having special teams returner as a hole in the offseason…makes no sense to me

Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 09' / 2-Time 09' Matty Award Winner

by Rzayo24 on Oct 26, 2009 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I absolutely agree, that's not where I'm coming from

My beef starts and ends here; “If the trade deadline was tomorrow and not last Tuesday, the dolphins would be dialing up the Ravens”

That means the Dolphins would be willing to get rid of Ginn, either to get Turner and Hartline on the field or just to cut it’s losses. My problem is that after one bad game against New Orleans, NOW they are ready to go ahead and do that. Not after 2 and a half years of miserable play, not after they benched him against buffalo, not after he destroyed Henne’s confidence against San Diego with two drops, not after he couldn’t make the game winning catch gainst the Colts. No, they had to wait until he had one more Ginn like game.

So that is what I am saying, I don’t care if they want to get rid of him or not, but if like Mortenson says, and his “limited role from now one” indicates, the team is ready to cut it’s losses with him, then why not doing it last week when he had some value left? What where they possibly expecting from him

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

At Least With The Uncapped Season

We can unload him and Wilson with only the guaranteed money hurting the owner’s pocket and not the team.

Hopefully we can trade him for something. Anything. I’d take a hot dog. I don’t even need the mustard. I’ll get that myself.

I run a lazy, booze addled & thoroughly unprofessional Dolphins blog: www.thephinisher.com.

Official Grand Poobah of the Chad Henne fan club and bandwagon. Some of you have a lot to prove before you can climb on.

by The Phinisher on Oct 26, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think a lot of teams will be unloading guys due to salary and guys that have just not

lived up to there contract. Its going to be a good time for us to unload some garbage and maybe find a bargain or two.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The idea of unloading him onto Baltimore is pure speculation

And like Rzayo said, you really couldn’t get a stick of gum for him right now. It’s almost like Ted Ginn is the mole from the Cam-moron/Randy Mueller regime who is dead set on sabotaging our franchise in the name of Cam Cameron (who is also a dead ringer for the dad from “Alf”).

Drinking the Sean Smith #24 orange Kool-Aid. We have a new shutdown corner in South Beach!

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ya realy haft to slow your release, cuz he can't catch nuthing hard. oh he has to be open, cuz he can go up but he wont fight for the ball-to come down with it.

by wild zion beaver on Oct 27, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No but he will hand it to the defender for the pick 6!

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your right but I was under the belief that Mort and Bill were good friends and talk on a

regular basis. I am quite sure that Bill did not tell him that he would trade his ass today. If the two know each other that well its absolutly realistic that Mort is able to pick up a lot more from him than just what was said. I think we are all like that with someone we know very well. It may be a total fallicy that he pulled out of his ass based on assumption but then again there may be something to it. Mort’s so called rumors have come true a lot more than not.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus, you don't have to be a genius to believe the Dolphins would trade Ginn after

yesterday’s performance.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True and I can see your frustration. I also can see why they tried to make it work with

him for so long. I think sometimes you just get that ah ha moment. For all we know they shopped him and or tried to trade for someone.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This Regime Has Drafted

Far too well for me to write them off. They’re building a hell of a team.

It sounds funny but we are only a piece or two away from being a dominant team.

1. A first class receiver.
2. A ball hawking free safety.
3. A middle linebacker with some on-the-field presence. Doesn’t even need to be a pro bowler.

That’s doable this off-season.

I run a lazy, booze addled & thoroughly unprofessional Dolphins blog: www.thephinisher.com.

Official Grand Poobah of the Chad Henne fan club and bandwagon. Some of you have a lot to prove before you can climb on.

by The Phinisher on Oct 26, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

And at least the failure of Ginn is not on them. Maybe they are only guilty of holding on too long.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mmm, I want a Pro Bowl inside linebacker

Assuming Clemons is the safety we need right now, I’d love to stock up on both inside and rush linebackers in the 2010 draft. We could get Rolando McClain in the first round and Jerry Hughes in the second (if TCU doesn’t crash the BCS Bowl Series this year).

Drinking the Sean Smith #24 orange Kool-Aid. We have a new shutdown corner in South Beach!

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL I dont think it matter what TCU does as far a record. The fact that this guy

is awesome is out.

I may be biased because they are only about 30 min. from me but I think that TCU is consistantly the most overlooked program in the entire country.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they talk, which they might,

I doubt it’s about how Parcells runs the Dolphins. This guy does not give up info unless he wants to. For all we know, this may be a ploy by Parcells to light a fire under Ginns ass, that he better start performing or he’s getting sent to the Raiders. Al Davis would love him Ginn, all that speed, no potential.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 26, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thats true. Parcells has used the media for years to send messages to his players.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are past that from Ginn. If they bench him or "reduce his role" against the Jets,

his time with the Dolphins is officially over.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think his time with the Dolphins was over as soon as Parcells got here.

The only problem is Parcells has yet to find his replacement, so might as well keep the guy around until you do.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 26, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually agree w/ u Rz

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 26, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you should cuz im right

Phinsider Hall of Fame Class of 09' / 2-Time 09' Matty Award Winner

by Rzayo24 on Oct 27, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you also

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 26, 2009 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

NO NO NO

DO NOT LET HIM RETURN KICKS AGAIN!

Get him off the damn field and put someone on who can play!

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Oct 27, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think that's quite how it went down.....

If Parcells really thought Ginn had any game at all, do you really think he would have brought in so many receivers during training camp? Didn’t we have like 9 or 10 at one point? The only reason a trade didn’t happen is because the rest of the league knows what Parcells and everyone else knows. Ginn is nothing more than a 3rd receiver, and that’s all the compensation teams were probably willing to give up (nothing higher than a 4th or 5th rounder if we were lucky). So my guess is, Parcells figures it makes more sense to hold onto him. Hopefully he has a couple good games to pad his stats. Then deal him for hopefully a 3rd or 4th rounder in the offseason.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 26, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Believe me, they did think this was his break out year.

1- They didn’t go for a top tier WR in the first round like many analysts were expecting
2- They hyped him up all summer long
3- His spot on the field was never, ever, in question. He didn’t have to earn crap.

God knows this coaching staff had lots of faith on him.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I gotta disagree...

1- Parcells doesn’t draft WR in the first round, it’s only happened once in his many years. Considering it was the headache Keyshawn Johnson, I don’t see him ever doing it again.
2- What do you expect them to say about the guy? You expect them to come out and say he’s not what they would like in a WR? Of course they’re going to hype him up.
3- Of all the WRs we brought in, who even threatened to take his spot away as the deep threat? Nobody, that’s who. They brought in a bunch of speedsters to try, but they weren’t any better.

Bottom line is they knew they were stuck with him, so they’re trying to make the best of it. Hopefully he has a couple good games and raises his trade value.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 26, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it was the fact that he was a 1st rounder

that made me want him to break out. I guess he’ll just return kicks for us. We actually saw him return kicks 2 seasons ago. Full time special teams. Part time receiver.

by g35phin on Oct 26, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sparano Alluded

to Hartline having a bigger role this week. They’ll phase Ginn out.

I just wish Patrick Turner could step it up and get on the field.

I run a lazy, booze addled & thoroughly unprofessional Dolphins blog: www.thephinisher.com.

Official Grand Poobah of the Chad Henne fan club and bandwagon. Some of you have a lot to prove before you can climb on.

by The Phinisher on Oct 26, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hartline was our best receiver

in the preseason. Look at Miles Austin. The Cowboys are winning because of him. They didnt know they had a star until Crayton went down.

by g35phin on Oct 26, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, fun fact; Miles Austin has been HUGE in Dallas for at least a year

and a half now. It just happened that he hadn’t been able to get on the field, either for injury last season, or because they had TO and now Roy Williams and Crayton who is a reliable veteran. Of course they didn’t know they had freaking Randy Moss inside his body, but he was highly regarded of in their organization. Imagine us with Henne or the Packers with Rodgers, they knew what these guys were capable of but unitl they had a chance to play, the world finally figured it out too. But the Austin story is a cool one indeed, he’s been their secret weapon for a long time now, we even tried to get him and they wouldn’t let him go

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its hard to know exactly. Parcells is always going to lean towards defense. Especially

in the first round.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw this...

…and thought the same thing. It is a little disconcerting. All the route running improvement in the world doesn’t matter if you can’t catch the damn ball.

Ted Ginn and Matt Roth for Dwayne Bowe? Hell, at this point I would have given a second and a third for Bowe, if only to get Ginn off the field.

The guy not only is a bust but a bust that hurts this team. He not only drops the ball at crucial times but tips it up for a pick six.

I closed the book on him Sunday. He has to put together three 100 yard performances in a row before I’ll even think of dusting it off for another read.

In the meantime I’m sitting here watching Desean Jackson, who even vaguely looks like Ted Ginn, prove that he has a ton of heart to go with his blinding speed. That guy is a difference maker for his team. Not the opponent’s.

Great post. Rec’d.

I run a lazy, booze addled & thoroughly unprofessional Dolphins blog: www.thephinisher.com.

Official Grand Poobah of the Chad Henne fan club and bandwagon. Some of you have a lot to prove before you can climb on.

by The Phinisher on Oct 26, 2009 10:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thanks, haha excellent comment, I agree.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 26, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

Action Jackson is what Ginn should have been

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

There are times in my life wheere I have self-doubt, but when this happens, I simply ask myself: What would Don Draper do? So I bone a random whore.

by Patssuck456 on Oct 26, 2009 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ginn has no heart and no spine

Current Phinsider Feud Points: 23

There are times in my life wheere I have self-doubt, but when this happens, I simply ask myself: What would Don Draper do? So I bone a random whore.

by Patssuck456 on Oct 26, 2009 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we should...

Look at putting Venus Williams out there instead of Ginn. I’m thinking she could rack up some YAC at least.

I run a lazy, booze addled & thoroughly unprofessional Dolphins blog: www.thephinisher.com.

Official Grand Poobah of the Chad Henne fan club and bandwagon. Some of you have a lot to prove before you can climb on.

by The Phinisher on Oct 26, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ginn will be here next year

One thing I’ve learned from this front office is they don’t throw anyone under the bus who’s name isn’t Terrell Owens. Let me remind all of you this isn’t Madden football that you can trade someone and not deal with the consequences of that decision in real life. Let me spell that out for you, in Madden you don’t have talk and build a relationship with the people you bring in and also hope that they gel with their teammates in a way that they don’t disrupt the flow of the team. They’re going to keep him unless someones gives them a 1st round pick in the teens, an early second round pick, and Dan Marino!! And no they’re not trading Roth packaged with Ginn. Again they don’t throw any one under the bus because once you start doing that someones gonna throw your ass under the bus! You guys have to understand this team is in rebuilding mode, we’re a couple of pieces away from being a contender and the 2010 draft is looking pretty meaty for the positions we need. Now I’m no Ginn family apologist but I am in agreement with the Trifecta holding on to him for one more season if they can get a stud #1 in the draft. Which is extremely possible. I feel their idea is having a stud#1, the Ginn family burning the secondary, and Hartline and Co. tearing up the middle and post.

by jesavius on Oct 26, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I disagree. I think they will trade him. They can trade him or cut him next year and there is

no adverse affect on the team. There is no salry cap next year so its time to clean house if you ask me. Why would they hold on to a guy that is basically useless?

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 26, 2009 11:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ginn has now had his chance. And yeah, it needed to take this long.

A QB with an arm to match his speed.
An O Line to give said QB time.
Practice time to work timing.

Poor fellow….

First

by Tunaflipper on Oct 26, 2009 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

THAT

by firedanhenningnow on Oct 27, 2009 6:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Move Ginn to CB… lmao, he can bat the ball down, its what he does best!

by PhinsFan69 on Oct 26, 2009 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not so sure he'd make the big hit...

And he’d be dragged down the field by half the tight ends in the league

First

by Tunaflipper on Oct 26, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know it was a joke lol

by PhinsFan69 on Oct 26, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HIndsight is always 20/20

Ted Ginn made just enough plays to tantalize most people.
I’m sure there were people (including me) who were not impressed with Ginn
and there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that he was “soft”
but I am willing to admit that even though I had no faith in Ginn and thought he was too soft to be of value,
there was still a nagging doubt in my mind that the light just might turn on and he could be a useful #2 or #3 WR
and maybe, just maybe, become Santonio Holmes or Mario Manningham.
We had a new QB with a big arm in Henne.
He did make a couple of great catches.
The potential was there and I believe the Trifecta did the right thing. Give the player the benefit of the doubt..
The trade deadline just came one week too early.
There will always be players that tantalize with mad raw skills, but just never put it together on the field:
Cough Joey Cough Galloway Cough Cough.
The franchise is in good hands. They’re not infallible (Ernest Wilford, Shawn Murphy, Chris Crocker, Gibril Wilson, btw I still believe that Eric Green was just a ruse to be able to grab Vontae Davis or Sean Smith later in the draft).
I think the best strategy is to be patient enough to find out if players will step up in the big time.
Otherwise you end up trading away player after player and watch them blossom on other teams.
Great Pickup of Chad Henne and great development/coaching by David Lee!

Abandoned the Draft Sean Smith at #25 Bandwagon to Join the Draft Sean Smith at #61 Bandwagon and get Vontae Davis and Chris Clemons. Trio > me.

by DolphDallas on Oct 27, 2009 12:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did anybody else miss Penington yesterday?

God knows I did. It takes a seasoned leader to win these kind of games. Henne hopefully will get there, but Pennington was a beautiful thing. Remember all those clutch 3rd down throws he made against Indy? How he kept our season alive last year against KC in the cold, coming from behind several times. How he kept us in the shootout we barely lost against New England in Miami last year? Running and diving for a touchdown, throwing that beautiful pass to ricky? The last Jet game? How he ran for a first down on Ray Lewis’ face and went all “pretty boy on your face” on Lewis? God, I miss that man like a mom fcker. Chaaaaaaaaaaad R U THERE?

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. NO could not key off CP10 liken they did CP7.

First

by Tunaflipper on Oct 27, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you mean?

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 27, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

versus

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

enough said, I will never be able to like this guy as much as I liked Pennington.

It’s just not gonna happen. I’ll have to live with it. Chad Pennington….. how very much we miss you already

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry.. I still think Henne is going to be our QB for a while. He is young and will have a few bad games here and there..

Also think about the loss to the Saints.. was that first pick 6 Henne’s fault at all? Nope. Was the 2nd.. yes he shoulda just took the sack.. but it was a mistake.. all qb’s make them. Also Hennes numbers were not much worse then Brees who is considered THE QB of the NFL this year. 211 yards 50% completions and Brees was 290ish with about 55% completions and 3 INTs and 1 td. I think Henne played pretty well for the most part and as much as I enjoyed and love CP10 I think Henne is a better option and with time will be a better fit for this team.

Henne is now our leader. Lets see what the guy can do !
As usual the R&R Xpres is non stop to its next destination !
Driver of the Camarillo, Hartline & Bess fan club bus.. hop on and enjoy the ride!
We need this pass D to STEP THE F UP and do what they get paid to do!

by MainePhinFan on Oct 27, 2009 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well said MPF!

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand

why so many people are so iffy on Henne, especially last game. He didn’t even play badly. He had a solid game, and got screwed over by poor line play. He has 60%+ completions if his damn receivers catch the damn ball. He probably leads the team to a win if the coaching staff doesn’t take the second half off. And you know everyone here would think of him as the next Marino if that’s the case.

Why is it that since this doesn’t happen, and he takes his first loss as starting QB because of multiple factors which were (for the most part) not his doing, all of a sudden we want Pennington back.

Sorry to say, Pennington doesn’t win this game. I don’t think Pennington wins the Jets game, either.

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

by Dave.Phuller on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

and by we I mean Mau. haha

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

by Dave.Phuller on Oct 27, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Im iffy on him because I don't like him as a person, he's arrogant

and is supposed to be a freaking robot for crying out loud. Just look at his picture, he looks like a moron. Who hasn’t been able to win the big game thus far (ohio state ring a bell? thought so)
If you think Pennington doesn’t win this game, I won’t give you arguments made by myself, I’ll just give you the facts. This game got away because of the inability of the offense to stay on the field, thus giving NO something like 3 straight three and outs, were they outscored fucking 156-0. Now, did you see Pennington play against the Colts? keeping us on the field while making clutch 3rd down passes?
Against this team he would’ve provided that leadership and poise to stay on the field and keep Brees on the sidelines.
What did Henne do? The defense and ricky williams scored all of the points for us. Henne played poorly, completing something ridiculous like 50% of his passes with 2 interceptions and a QB rating of 45. Yes, 45.
So who is going to say that huh? who is going to come out and say Henne pissed this game away?

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and by the way, nobody "all of a sudden wants Pennington back"

I never wanted him gone and Henne hasn’t impressed me more than a guy I saw early in the morning climbing a tree with his ass uncovered. What has he done? like one guy said “He’s handing the ball off to the running backs like a Pro Bowler”.Aside from the Ginn bomb, Pennington could’ve easily made all the other throws he did with one hand laying on his ball sack.

“Henne lost his first game because of multiple factors” well way to reinvent the wheel right there. When Pennington lost the game against Baltimore in the playoffs, nobody was mentioning those multiple factors: Disgraceful pass protection, UFL worthy wide receivers, no run whatsofreaking ever. and on and on.
Let be a little objective here.

Whatever, it’s not like we passed on Matt Ryan. Oh wait

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Matt Ryan argument is really a moot point.

There is absolutely no way to determine if Ryan would have had the same success here that he did in Atlanta. The whole situation is different and makes a comparison rather pointless.

First off, Atlanta had a range of weapons in their receivers. They had the #1 deep threat in Roddy White, and they also had a range of other receivers who while not as well known, were solid enough to give him options. We don’t have a #1 or a consistent deep threat, which changes how defenses play us.

Secondly, Atlanta had a good offensive line. I’m not saying it was awesome, but they had a line that was pretty effective at keeping defenders away from Ryan. We got a great LT by picking Long, and that does nothing but help protect the QB, which makes them play better. If we didn’t get a good LT and took Ryan instead, he could have gotten hammered all season and he would only be a mediocre QB.

If you want an example of how a QB with pretty good talent can go into the crapper with a shitty O-line, take a look at Marc Bulger. He had the talent and skills to be a good QB for the Rams after Warner left, but after 2 seasons the O-line took a vacation to Suckville, and he got drilled. Now look at him.

Irregardless of whether you agree with me or not, or if you can acknowledge my arguments, it’s a thing of the past. We didn’t draft Matt Ryan, we drafted Jake Long. Complaining about what we should have done in the past isn’t going to change anything or improve the situation.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Oct 27, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree, however there are a couple of things that

would have remained identical had we drafted him:
1- His poise, intelligence and cool. That’s something he’s got since he was in high school. A different team logo wont take it away
2- His arm and football IQ
3- He wouldn’t have played his rookie year, he would’ve learned behind a veteran Qb, on his second season, he would be playing behind one of the best lines in Football.
4- We would’ve had by now, three 2nd round picks and 1 first, plus 3 thirds to find ourselves a good LT. With Parcells drafting skills I assure you we would have one by now
5- We would’ve made a play for Braylon Edwards, or a Free Agent like Houshmanzada
6- He would be playing behind the best rushing attack in the NFL

I think overall the conditions would’ve been ideal. IDEAL

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok, I do see your points,

but let me just make a few counter-points.

1. His intelligence, arm, and football IQ wouldn’t have changed, but his cool could have been if he was hammered repeatedly by an inferior offensive line. Not for sure, but it could have been.

2. Which veteran QB would he have learned from? CP10 wasn’t brought on board until well after the draft. If they had drafted a QB 1st overall, I’m pretty sure they would have started him and not needed to get CP10.

3. Yes, we would have had those draft picks to find us a LT, but who would we have given up to get that LT? 1 pick like that can change a whole draft strategy since you never know how other teams will react and who will be left when you pick again. I just think that is too much of an unknown to be a solid argument.

4. I don’t necessarily know that they would have gone for an Edwards or Housh. They still could have tried to pick up one of them last year or this year too, but they still didn’t. They thought that Ginn was finally going to live up to his potential, and I think that’s why they didn’t go for those guys. I think even with drafting Ryan they wouldn’t have picked up a receiver.

5. I completely agree with you 100% on point number 6.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Oct 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Our QBs were Beck and McCown during the 2008 draft

No one knew NYJ was going to sack CP10 for Favre, so that’s a moot point.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, you already pointed that out. Whoops

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep, our situation with Long is solid, but I'm positive

we would’ve found a way to make this work. Say, moving up this past draft to get a LT, giving up maybe a 3rd, which is rotting on the bench in the form of Patrick Turner. Then you still have Sean Smith and use the absolutely horrible Par White pick on another position of need.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't have taken any LT in this draft over Jake Long. No way

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he does look like a moron.

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, enough with the Matt Ryan shit.

You don’t think Matt Ryan looks like a moron? You don’t think Matt Ryan has had his picture taken at some party with two drunk girls? There are pics of Ben Roethlisberger pouring Jack Daniels down the throats of two girls at some college basement party. Did he look stupid in those pics? Yep. Are you going to say he sucks as a qb because of those pics? Doubt it. I care more about my qb’s arm than his face.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uhm in all fairness, Matt Ryan kind of looks like a moron too

In all seriousness, don’t mind the drunk picture, but Henne strictly as a person has never given me a good feeling. I think he is arrogant and insecure. I wouldn’t want him leading me in the huddle. All that shit about him not being inspirational in the huddle but being “tough”. What the hell is that all about. That spells one thing and one thing only I N S E CU R E.
I don’t like him plain and simple.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know what? F#%& it

Let’s draft Matt Ryan #1 overall. We don’t know at the time if he’ll be a franchise qb, but hey, let’s draft him. Yay, we have our qb.

Wait a second, you mean you need to PROTECT HIM? Oh no, our offensive line is shit. OUR LEFT TACKLE IS VERNON CAREY. We better trade back into the first round and grab someone like… Duane Brown… or maybe we’ll get Jeff Otah.

Ah, now we have our franchise left tackle, but now WE JUST GAVE AWAY DRAFT PICKS TO GET AN LT. We can’t draft Phillip Merling or Kendall Langford because we used those picks to trade up, and if we traded one of our lower picks, we might not have a chance to get Donald Thomas.

Sorry, but the Matt Ryan argument is f*#*ing retarded and I am so tired of hearing it.

Here’s something to think about — The Rams/Colts game was shown here on Sunday, and the supposed best LT of this year’s draft class, Jason Smith, got absolutely (and I mean ABSOLUTELY) destroyed by Dwight Freeney. Remember how Jake Long kept him off of CP10 the entire Indy game?…

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

read my response above.

Don’t kid yourself. You know that had Parcells somehow magically know that Ryan was going to be the QB he turned out to be, he would have drafted him with his eyes closed. You win Super Bowls with guys that are being compared to Peyton Manning only in his sophomore year, not with second rounders.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WHO is comparing Matt Ryan to Peyton Manning?

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmm Peter King, Dan Marino, Bill Cohwhere, Jiimmy Johnson

they have all said Ryan is the first rookie Qb to ever resemble Peyton Manning when he was young. Nobody is saying he is Peyton now, but that he very possibly can achieve that.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh my god, the experts

I remember when Rick Mirer had a great rookie season and was projected to become the next Joe Montana. Nyet.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Look, I understand where you're coming from

But there’s worse things than passing over a star quarterback for a star left tackle. The same experts you referenced think Jake Long is already an exceptional Left Tackle and has the mean streak and tenacity to become the best in the game. If that’s what we drafted, I’ll be able to sleep at night knowing we passed on Matt Ryan.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And forgive me

but I need to see about 10 years of phenomenal quarterback play before I compare anyone to Peyton Manning. The dude is ridiculous.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The man is absolutely amazing

My favorite QB off all time far and away

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate Peyton Manning

we are no longer “one” lol

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gosh I hate to see break ups!

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think I might just look for a Peyton Jersey again.

I just wanna feel like a winner.

Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.

What would Don Draper do in the Grocery Store? He wouldn't. She would.

Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!

Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.

by Farorefox on Oct 27, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lmao

Jeff Fisher=Dumbass

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Um yeah. Not his best stunt ever.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, so sad :(.....

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is indeed, and a nice guy too.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to be a bit of a devils advocate,

but Tom Brady was a 6th rounder and he did pretty well at winning Super Bowls.

"Why don't you put that in a memo and entitle it 'Shit I Already Know'!" - Sarge from Red vs. Blue

I can't brain today, I have the dumb.

28 "Phinsider Feud" Points

by Chupathingy on Oct 27, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of all the QBs who have won super bowls...

Fourteen were drafted in the first round, two were drafted in the second round and 11 were drafted in the third round or later. Eleven! And until Matt Ryan wins a super bowl, the argument over whether we should’ve taken him or not is a complete waste of time.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any argument over a guy that at this point will never be a

Phin is sort of a complete waste of time. I know what your trying to say but years after any draft every single team can play the coulda, woulda, shoulda game. I was not sold on Ryan either coming out of college. Its just one of those things. I honestly think the Phins beieved that Henne was every bit the QB as Ryan and in the end they may be right. If he is what some of us think he is and others hope he is then we will look like genius’.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think I said Matt Ryan anywhere in my comment.

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't responding to your comment

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we are basically one, so you kind of were...

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I realize I am going a little ballistic here but seriously

Fifty percent of the guys we’ve drafted the last two years are currently STARTING. How are you going to second-guess the Jake Long pick?

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You guys are basically one? I'll keep that in mind

The issue remains that our quarterback is in his third start and you are already crapping the bed about him.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hahahaa, man, I don't hate Henne

I actually think he has played well above our expectations. All Im saying is that I would like to have an Elite QB at the helm, a guy we had a shot at and let go.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is not a reflection on Henne, I couldn't care less about him

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I want an elite qb, too

but Matt Ryan inherited a pretty good situation (offensively, at least) in Atlanta. Our offense was a hot mess after 2007, so I don’t think he would’ve thrived nearly as much in Miami.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

me neither, but I would love to have

him here right now. But only time will tell

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He didn't look so hot on Sunday, either

He had one good drive and then spent the rest of the afternoon getting picked off of the cleats of the Cowboys’ D.

And I’ll be honest, I wasn’t overly thrilled when we drafted Chad Henne. He just didn’t feel like a franchise guy to me. Then again, I was miserable when we passed on Brady Quinn, so what do I know? I am just deferring to Parcells’ QB wisdom here. Henne’s won me over this year, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when he has a sub-par performance.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Haha

Pennington kept the offense on the field that game because his receivers actually caught the ball. Come on now dude.

To say he played poorly would be ignorant. He was 7-10 in the first half. Everybody noticed how piss-poor the offensive line played in the second half, and you don’t just all of a sudden ask Henne to win the game in a shoot-out with the league’s top offense and expect him to pass up and down the field without a safe pocket from which to progress through his reads. You also don’t scrap your running game, which gives him an opportunity to establish and develop his rhythm, and expect him to do extremely well in his third friggin’ start.

You’re going to put two INTs on him? I don’t know what you saw, Ginn GAVE the ball to the Saints. Henne put it in a location for only Ginn to catch it, and only Ginn went up for it. It still ended up in the Saints hands.

A QB rating of 45 is awful, but to use that stat so literally would be a mistake. And, to me, sounds rather forced as a sort of argument against Henne.

And to the Pennington argument, are you serious? Nobody was as clutch in that Jets game as Henne. He completed third downs, made passes people didn’t think he could make, and showed all the confidence and leadership that Pennington did. He’s got a better arm, learned from the smartest QB in football, and was well developed by a good quarterbacks coach. Pennington’s been clutch far longer, but hell, Henne was clutch in his second start in the league. What do you want from him?

I personally have yet to pick up on this arrogance myself. I may have missed something, but I see confidence. Something QBs need.

2009 Unofficial "The Phinsider" (Phinaddict's League) Fantasy Baseball League Champion

by Dave.Phuller on Oct 27, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Enough said?

You got a pic of a veteran QB who is 33 married and trying to keep a job. Then a pic of a QB in his college years, who isn’t married and out enjoying himself, probably during the offseason.

You trying to compare these and make him look bad? You fail.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm, who to choose?

CP10 who’s too busy working to have fun……
Or….
Henne with two chicks in his arms and a beer in his hand….
How can you not pick Henne?
He’ll get you laid and drunk!!!!!

by luvs2drnk on Oct 27, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And how old is that pic of Henne anyways?

That haircut makes him look like a cast member from Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Drinking the Patrick Turner #84 orange Kool-Aid.

by kmb8488 on Oct 27, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good question

I’ve never seen Henne w/ his hair like that as a Dolphin

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 27, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At least he is staying in shape with light beer.

Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.

What would Don Draper do in the Grocery Store? He wouldn't. She would.

Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!

Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.

by Farorefox on Oct 27, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He hasn't had any hair since he's been a Dolphin.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 27, 2009 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL I think most young guys have a pic of them like that out there somewhere.

I find it a total non issue.

"I hope you know a lot more than you believe in"-Gram Parsons

by texascowpunk on Oct 27, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yea I'm sure Pennington has never drunk a beer

I’m also positive that there are NO pics of Henne on the field busy working either.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 27, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maus just mad that his women aren't that fine. Or multiple.

Head Weatherman/ Injury Specialist of the Phinsider.

What would Don Draper do in the Grocery Store? He wouldn't. She would.

Knowshon Moreno is actually the illegitimate chocolate son of Dan Marino. Its true!!! I have pictures!!!

Bender: Who wants dolphin? Leela: Dolphin? But dolphins are intelligent. Bender: Not this one. He blew all his money on instant lottery tickets.

by Farorefox on Oct 27, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh there isn't...

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CP10

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just pick him cause you think he's cuter.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 27, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, as a girl, I don't find either to be necessarily attractive.

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you implying?

If you were a man, you would find one of them attractive?

by luvs2drnk on Oct 27, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol yes....uh no. If I had to pick? Pennington because he just seems like a good guy.

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who has the bigger man crush?

Matty on Beck or Mau on Pennington….This is sad.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 27, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me on Pennington by faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar.

Now a days Im figuring out that he was 99% of the reason I enjoyed last season so much.
I don’t care so much about the statistics/ wins & losses part of the game as much as I care about the kind of people that take on the field every sunday. While building my memories I couldn’t give more of a crap about the saints beating us or the colts beating us or whatever, I’m just glad I’ll be able to look back and look at the highlight reel in my head of one of the greatest people / human being to ever take the field on the NFL. I played sports at a high level until I got to college and when I look back, I couldn’t care less about the scores or wins and losses, I look back and all I see is the way I and my teammates found a way to overcome deficiencies and pressure through effort, leadership and hard work and how through taking the field, found a way to become better people as a whole and always find a way to shake the opponents hand and say good job. If there was a flag for that, it would probably have Pennington’s face all over it.

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen. I feel the same way. Pennington was such a great guy and I miss having him on the team like crazy.

He meant so much the team, it was unbelievable. He was the rock on our team.

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amen right back! Well said

by MauMontaV5 on Oct 27, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you said it the best.

Don't question my fandominium.
"the notorious D.I.B."- samdaman

by dolphinsinbuffalo on Oct 27, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What the hell is this?

Sounds like some lame PSA you see on Saturday mornings during cartoons.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 27, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, it's Finster or finsx with the Beck man crush.

Matty’s man crush is on Ronnie Brown.

by luvs2drnk on Oct 27, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Matty’s man crush is on Ronnie Brown.

John Beck will not like this.

"Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak." Thomas Carlyle

by Neo on Oct 27, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs