Numbers Can't Lie: Judging Our Community Projections (Offense Edition)
This column is the second half of my look back at the community projections that were compiled here before this season began. Last week, I looked at the defensive projections. This week, I'll be taking a look at the three offensive players that were chosen to perform projections on (Ted Ginn was also done, but I've already discussed him in a previous column.)
In general, the community's projections for the defensive players were all overly optimistic. It will be interesting to see if that is the case with the offensive players as well.
In addition to the Phinsider projections and the actual performances, I'll be including the KUBIAK projections from Pro Football Prospectus 2008.
Let's jump right into it. First up is Chad Pennington:
|
|
G |
Comp |
Att |
C% |
Yds |
TD |
Int |
YPA |
Rt |
DVOA |
|
Community |
14 |
213 |
328 |
64.6 |
2510 |
17 |
10 |
7.65 |
92.4 |
- |
|
KUBIAK |
16 |
278 |
445 |
62.6 |
2876 |
21 |
16 |
6.46 |
81.8 |
-15.6% |
|
Actual |
16 |
321 |
476 |
67.4 |
3653 |
19 |
7 |
7.67 |
97.4 |
25.6% |
First off, it must be noted that the KUBIAK projections were published while Pennington was still a New York Jet. Since this projection system is based on a model that takes into account the experience of the player's projected offensive line, the weapons around him, and the strength of schedule that he will be facing, it makes sense to just toss those numbers out from the get-go. Of course, had Pennington been with Miami before the numbers went to press, they likely would have been even a little bit lower. The bottom line is that KUBIAK saw Pennington declining this season.
Looking at the community's numbers, it's obvious that no one saw this type of season coming from Pennington. This was undoubtedly the best season in his career. The community certainly didn't envision this team passing as much as it did (it projected almost the same number of attempted passes as those actually completed), and that's probably due to an unrealistic expectation for how much of a workload Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams could shoulder (see below). The community did however nail the yards per attempt figure and came pretty close on the QB rating.
Pennington's season offers a good example of something that I think will be a significant challenge next year. Think of how many players had career years in 2008. For young players like Ted Ginn, Greg Camarillo, and Matt Roth that is great because it is expected that young players will consistently trend upward in their first few years. Good young prospects should generally stack career years on top of one another until they reach their peak. But what happens when an older player suddenly has a career year? I'm thinking of guys like Pennington, Andre' Goodman, and Joey Porter.
The years that those players had were so out of the ordinary with their prior performances that it is simply misguided to expect anything similar in 2009. I'm not saying that players can't have late-career reawakenings, but is that slim hope where we want to place our aspirations for the future? I certainly don't. And while I expect Pennington to play at a high level again next year, I'm not predicting that he'll come anywhere close to what he did this season.
A lot of people are going to be upset if they go into 2009 expecting guys like Goodman and Porter to build on career years achieved in age 30+ seasons.
But that's enough about that for now. Up next is Ronnie Brown:
|
G |
Runs |
Yds |
Yd/R |
TD |
Run DVOA |
Rec |
Yds |
Yd/C |
TD |
Rec DVOA |
Fum |
|
|
Community |
14 |
248 |
999 |
4.0 |
9 |
- |
31 |
390 |
12.6 |
2 |
- |
2 |
|
KUBIAK |
16 |
256 |
1150 |
4.5 |
6 |
1.0% |
47 |
358 |
7.6 |
0 |
6.4% |
- |
|
Actual |
16 |
214 |
916 |
4.3 |
10 |
4.8% |
33 |
254 |
7.7 |
0 |
11.5% |
1 |
The funny thing about the KUBIAK projection is that it actually took Brown's ACL injury into account quite heavily, and still managed to overshoot his carry and yardage totals by quite a bit. When it came to DVOA, however, it was pretty spot-on. And while it also overestimated how many receptions Brown would make, it correctly called how many yards per catch he would average, along with being shut out of the end zone in the passing game.
When looking at the community projections, keep in mind that the participants anticipated Brown playing in two fewer games than he actually did, so the lower counting stats would actually be even farther apart had they actually predicted him to play an entire season. The community saw Brown getting 18 carries a game. In my estimation, that was a pipedream. But some people can't get past the idea that simply because a player is back on the field after a terrible injury and appears to be doing fine that he actually is still rehabbing and won't be 100% until much later down the road. I guarantee you, Ronnie was not 100% this year. And no one should have expected him to be.
Finally, we have Ricky Williams:
|
|
G |
Runs |
Yds |
Yd/R |
TD |
Run DVOA |
Rec |
Yds |
Yd/C |
TD |
Rec DVOA |
Fum |
|
Community |
15 |
248 |
1065 |
4.3 |
6 |
- |
34 |
299 |
8.8 |
2 |
- |
3 |
|
KUBIAK |
16 |
100 |
411 |
4.1 |
2 |
-6.6% |
14 |
104 |
7.3 |
0 |
-4.4% |
- |
|
Actual |
16 |
160 |
659 |
4.1 |
4 |
-4.0% |
29 |
219 |
7.6 |
1 |
-9.7% |
5 |
Wow. Talk about two extremes. The KUBIAK projections were definitely sour on Ricky Williams, but they still came very close to predicting all of his rate states. They clearly just didn't anticipate him getting the ball so much.
The community projections on the other hand overshot his actual production in every single category - most noticeably in his carries and rushing yards. The community projected Ricky and Ronnie to both run 248 times, for a combined total of 496 carries solely between the top two backs. The entire team only had 448 carries, and that's including QB kneel downs. So there was an obvious overestimation here of both Ricky's role in the offense and his abilities. In fact, Ricky was projected to produce more on the ground than Ronnie.
I think that doing theses look-backs at the community projections are a good lesson for heading into the offseason and next year. As fans, most of the time we far overvalue our own players and end up expecting impractical amounts of production from them. Try to keep that in mind for when we do these projections again this summer.
As always, let me know if you have any suggestions for column ideas you'd like me to look into in the future.
This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.
0 recs |
14 comments
Comments
hmmm... i think that number just lied.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Jan 29, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe so
but it’s not a statistic, since a statistic is nothing more than a recorded observation of a factually true event.
So by manufacturing a false observation, you sir, are in fact the one who lied.
Check out my Dolphins site for news and analysis: http://www.phinaticism.blogspot.com
by PhinPhan in MA on Jan 29, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pennington ????
Great Read. I guess my only beef with the articule is the comments made about Pennington. How can you say that he won’t be better next season? or even put up similar numbers. I think things that QB’s rely on most he didn’t have for most of this season like timing with WR, knowledge of the offense ect… I know age does play a part in things but at 32 he is still young and isn’t coming off of any injuries this season which is rare with older QB’s so he actually might have a better chance at putting up similar numbers than you may believe.
by markus_13 on Jan 29, 2009 3:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I only say that because Pennington has so far played 9 seasons in the NFL, and in his 9th season he put up a performance that far exceeded anything he had ever done before, perhaps with the exception of his 2002 season. He will be 33 heading into next season and facing a much harder schedule. It just doesn’t seem likely that he’s going to continue to play even better than his absolute career peak. I think he will still play well, but to exceed this year? That’s a stretch. Add to it the fact that Pennington really never has had two great seasons in a row and that’s how I arrived at my thoughts.
Thanks for the constructive comments though, I appreciate it.
Check out my Dolphins site for news and analysis: http://www.phinaticism.blogspot.com
by PhinPhan in MA on Jan 29, 2009 5:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Still haha
I understand what you mean .. I guess I am saying he should have a similar season next year. I know he hasn’t had back-2-back good seasons but if I recall that had to do more with injuries that plagued him over his career. The one area I could see real improvement would be in the TD passes. What can I say I’m a glass half full type of guy
by markus_13 on Jan 29, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
im followin you
Enough is enough...we need Natalya back. I believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man.
Official Leader of the Draft Kenny Britt Bandwagon
Longest Sig In the History of Phinsider belongs to Me. 53 Lines in Total.
by finsxfactor on Jan 29, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for this PhinPhan...
interesting to me that the community thought ricky would outgain ronnie… injury concerns more than anything i would assume.
and no one can say enough about CP10.. the man went from rival and villain to close to a lot of our hearts here in Phinland- in one season.
The Jayfiss Report ...one fan's rants
by NumberSeven on Jan 29, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think RZ would deny that he was ever a Jet
"How can I blame you
When it's me I can't forgive?"
-From the Unforgiven III off of Death Magnetic
by Patssuck456 on Jan 29, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cp was a rookie last year...idk what you're talkin bout lol
Enough is enough...we need Natalya back. I believe in John Beck and that Cbdolphin is the man.
Official Leader of the Draft Kenny Britt Bandwagon
Longest Sig In the History of Phinsider belongs to Me. 53 Lines in Total.
by finsxfactor on Jan 29, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs


















