Expectations on young quarterbacks in the NFL i.e. John Beck.

by perfectvillepop.1 on Sep 2, 2008 7:37 PM EDT Comment 18 comments

We've seen it a hundred times. Rookie superstar quarterbacks coming out of college getting big money going to sub par teams and being expected to be the team's savior. Well that's too bad, because to me that is a formula for disaster. It seems that all these management groups in the league that run sub par teams (not excluding the Dolphins sadly to say) continue to keep the same track year in and year out. I almost think anyone with some business sense could do a better job. A lot of these teams only care about filling seats. Take the Detroit Lions for example. I have two words for you "Barry Sanders".

They never tried to build anything around him. Joey Harrington could've been an elite quarterback in this league, but he was thrown to the wolves, and from a business prospective when you pay millions for a prodigy you expect him to jump right in and compete. David Carr, Ryan Leaf (I hate to say that one) Matt Leinart, in my opinon, is headed onto that list, along with Alex Smith. Now to some examples of sucess stories: Aaron Rodgers so far seems to look like he will have some sucess, Jay Cutler is on the verge of becoming a star. Tony Romo, who I personally think is slightly overated has had sucess. Each of theses guys were backups, the key to their sucess was having a quality football team around them. Good defense, offense, coaching, management, FANS!!! etc. This brings me to John Beck. I like the guy, he is a class act, but he is just one more example of a good quarterback that has been thrown to the WOLVES! He doesn't have the mental psyche at this point to play the toughtest position on the field for that very reason.

And I bet that Chad Henne won't be put in the same situation this year, although, in my opinion, they are equally talented. Put bad memories in someone's mind and they don't forget, it's no different for him. A coach that never really had a chance to turn things around (Cam Cameron), out of desperation and much influenece from management, the media, and the FANS!!! forced him into making a decision he should have never made, Cleo Lemon should've completed that season, and John Beck should've never left the clip board, and head set. If it transpired that way whether Cam was back this year or not ( That's a whole different can of worms.) John wouldn't be so out of place. I think he is a very, very, good quarterback as far as potential is concerned, but we need to take it slow and let him get his feet under him, gain some confidence- let him know he's gonna be around for a while.

In closing, these kids are paid entirely too much money sight unseen. There is no track record and it places a lot of stress on these athletes. Lower salaries and recognize to rebuild you have to do it from the ground up. Quit trying to replace the Marinos, Montanas, Elways,Kellys and so on. You can't EVER! Just try building an identity with new guys like Beck.

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Good post

And I will say that I, too, do subscribe to the line of logic that it’s far better to let your rookie QB sit out for at least a season…especially if you lack talent around him. Don’t want him to get pounded week in and week out like John Beck, David Carr, etc…

The Phinsider: SBN's Miami Dolphins blog

by Matty I on Sep 2, 2008 9:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Should Be

Interesting too see what happens too Falco and Ryan seeing as they are both going to be rookie starters.

by HuskerDolphin on Sep 2, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

good write up

by HuskerDolphin on Sep 2, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

have to disagree

first off cutler started as a rookie?? but that is neither here nor their….

I can list a number of great QB’s who all started as rookies and seemed to improve at a much quicker rate then those other QB’s in their drafts… elway, marino, manning(s), big ben, and mcnabb. The reality of the situation is the QBs who have the fortitude to succeed will do so whenever they are put in, and you could have left leaf on the bench for decades and he still wouldn’t have had the make up to be a good QB….

yup a rookie is going to get beaten up most likely in his rookie year, but who would you rather have right now A rodgers who has never played a game yet is well rested, or Big Ben? Who is more likely to have a better season this year…?

So you can put Beckie on the bench for a couple more years and i’d still rather have T Edwards once Beck is ready.

QB’s are sink or swim, and the sooner you get the swimmers experience the faster the team will be good.

by W NY Fins Fan on Sep 3, 2008 1:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Would you agree that

the QB’s you mentioned had a little better team around them then Beck did last year? It goes back to the original post, a solid team around a rookie QB makes a world of difference.

by Thruthickandt on Sep 3, 2008 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

some yes some no

Indy was TERRIBLE for mannings first year…. denver ol the first 3 or 4 games made elway run for his life… heck SF was what 2-14 montana’s rookie season (granted he didn’t play the entire game)….

so no, i don’t think there is any standard that says a QB is more likely to succeed if he sits his rookie season vs plays right away…

I think the reality of the situation is the good ones learn and get better (no matter when they start – say romo last season vs his first) and the bad ones fall apart (say rob johnson – to pick at bills fans)

by W NY Fins Fan on Sep 3, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish Rodgers had

more game experience because that would be a REAL test,Modern Era, of an experienced QB that didn’t fare so well with another team or teams coming to an already solid team with proven talent but he’s not so the ONLY real case study we have is Steve Young at TB and Steve Young at SF…after Montana.

“The reality of the situation is the QBs who have the fortitude to succeed will do so whenever they are put in.”

Steve Young absolutely sucked at TB and when the Buccaneers drafted Vinny,who also sucked in TB(just maybe it was TB that sucked), first overall in the 1987 NFL Draft, Young was deemed a bust and traded to San Fran.

To the best of my recollection,San Frans success didnt miss a beat when Montana was replaced by Young so evidently Joe wasn’t THAT great and Young wasn’t THAT bad even though it certainly looked like it on the surface but in reality it was a very solid supporting cast that made them both VERY successful…after being deemed a bust ,slipping on that Yellow Jacket must have felt pretty damn good.

Amazing to me how Young suddenly displayed his “fortitude to succeed” when he left TB for San Fran.

I dont know how you can include Marino in ANY QB comparisons because he is the ONLY “great” QB there ever has been but as far as the others go,Big Ben woke up one morning with a pretty solid OL,Hines,Plaxico,Staley,Bettis and Randle El…shocking he did so well.

When McNabb came in he had an OL that had a min. of 4 years together,Staley had 1275 yards and 4 receivers that averaged over 10 yds. per reception in a West Coast system under Reid BUT his only really good season was when T.O. came aboard and his stats jumped 14 TD’s,3 less INT’s,25 better passer rating and 7 comp.% better in one season,in 1994, compared to the previous year with the same supporting cast.

Elways first real good year was 10 years after he came into the league,in 1993,when he had an OL with 3 or more years experience together, Sharpe and two other receivers that averaged over 14yds. per reception and an 800yd back but they added Davis,a great D and a few more pieces and he finally got the rings.

Manning always had Marvin,had Faulk in the beginning(1300 rush and 900 rec.) and then James plus three receivers who averaged over 10 per recp..

We can debate all day long about the Carrs,Blakes,Klinglers,Couches and Alex Smiths of the world but until Carr starts at NY for a year or two or Smith goes to NE and starts for a year or two with the exact same players around them then how can you accurately judge someone..theres simply too many variables involved BUT an example we do have is Steve Young and its quite obvious the difference a great Coaching staff,a good FO and a great supporting cast made in his situation..hell..look how good Frank Reich looked in Buffalo from 89-93 in relief for Kelly,oh wait a minute..they went to the SuperBowl every damn year with that all world team didnt they.

Reichs “fortitude to succeed” quickly disappeared when he didn’t have the comfort level that those early 90’s Bills teams afforded him.

Regardless of where you may stand on this issue,I for one am just thankful that PIS have more common sense than to throw a young QB into ANY less than favorable situation.

by buttonmashersrhilarious on Sep 3, 2008 7:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

great post

On this team, we are all united in a common goal: to keep my job.
-- Lou Holtz

by Little Nicky 21 on Sep 3, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

kudos post

great points, esp the Big Ben arguement. Everyone is jocking this dudes dong HARD, but when you look @ his supporting cast, hell, throw me into that situation and I’ll get you a super bowl lol

and of course +1 on the

“I dont know how you can include Marino in ANY QB comparisons because he is the ONLY "great" QB there ever has been”

by chrislucas on Sep 3, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I suggest you look up

~great points, esp the Big Ben arguement. Everyone is jocking this dudes dong HARD, but when you look @ his supporting cast, hell, throw me into that situation and I’ll get you a super bowl lol~

Take a look at tommy maddox stats for that year (or even the year before)…. Big Ben didn’t start until game 2…. so while it was a nice situation to put a rookie QB *WITH The talent needed to succeed* not everyone could have led that team to the same level of success.

by W NY Fins Fan on Sep 3, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No question

some players are simply better than others and sometimes I think I come across as saying that I could do what the “good” QB’s did/do with their respective teams but nothing could be further from the truth and I did look up Maddoxs stats but he never was consistent with a good group and was one of those mediocre at bests so I didn’t mention him for that reason…Kordell was the same way in that he was decent but thats all he ever would/could be so sometimes even good Coaching can’t do it…like the old saying goes, “You can’t make Chicken Salad outta Chicken Shit!”.

There are some that would simply be decent or mediocre at best with an all Century player at every position around them and they basically hold their teams back but the few that have “it” do quite well with an inferior supporting cast when compared to others but when their supporting cast is upgraded,it all comes together like a well oiled machine and thats when they get “great” as we like to say.

Concerning Peyton,I read an article by the QB Coach at Tennessee where he says that Heath Shuler was the most talented player he ever Coached and that Heath had more natural talent than Peyton, but Peyton is a perfectionist and spent more time watching film than his Coaches did and Jim Mora laughingly said that when he sat down to interview Peyton before the draft that HE felt like HE was being interviewed because there Peyton was with his notepad and pencil and a whole list of questions,checking them off as they were answered,and grilling him like HE was up for a job opening.

Aikman was a pitiful site his rookie year for sure but JJ moved quickly and built that line and added some pieces and they had one heck of a run.

I think we were very fortunate to get Henne because he came from a Big Time Program where you play against the better teams in the Country so you have to be pretty damn good to play at all much less be a four year starter and PIS will give him what he needs,from Coaching to pieces,to be very successful and if he fails it will be his own fault but I think he could be real good…I certainly hope so.

Sorry I write so much but I just wanted to clarify what and why I believe what I do and if I’m wrong then so be it because I’m ALL about learning and if I can’t learn from others I’m screwed because all I’ll know is what I know and that aint much.

by buttonmashersrhilarious on Sep 4, 2008 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hmmm...

couple of points….

you said ~Big Ben woke up one morning with a pretty solid OL,Hines,Plaxico,Staley,Bettis and Randle El…shocking he did so well.
~~

(me) oddly enough T Maddox didn’t do so well with the same set…(and he festered on a number of benches and in some developmental leagues) so there must be some sort a raw “talent” factor eh?

oddly enough – the one factor that seems to hold true on most successful young QB’s teams… good coaches and coaching staffs.
which is likely the biggest impact on a young QB’s career.

Elway had Reeves
Marino had Shula
Aikman (who I keep forgetting) had JJ
Big Ben had cowher

where Beck had Cam….

by W NY Fins Fan on Sep 3, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would rather have rodgers

even though ben is an exception not a rule..

by mike2744 on Sep 3, 2008 2:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice Piece - But I Disagree

Joey Harrington could’ve been an elite quarterback in this league, but he was thrown to the wolves, and from a business prospective when you pay millions for a prodigy you expect him to jump right in and compete. David Carr, Ryan Leaf (I hate to say that one) Matt Leinart, in my opinon, is headed onto that list, along with Alex Smith.

Elite? Methinks not so much.

Look at every draft since the very first one. There are guys picked high, whether QBs or DTs, that never perform. Guys that do not last in the league for longer than the last 10 picked.

Why? Is it because they were mishandled? To some degree maybe. But I honestly believe that 90% of the time it is because they didn’t have the “gas in the tank.”

I do think preparation is important. I think a coach shouldn’t put a guy who isn’t ready in to play. John Beck was not ready to play last year.

Interesting enough, he doesn’t appear ready to play this year either.

Peyton Manning played on some very sub-par teams and persisted (with a lesser stat-line) on to become one of the better (there is only one great QB) QBs to play the game.

Why? Were the Colts really well equipped? Not really. Peyton Manning walked onto the field a good quarterback and did the things that a good quarterback does. His name is not mentioned along with Jeff George’s, unless your discussing people the Colts selected first overall.

I think guys are either good or not. What it amounts to is the level of quick-minded intelligence, toughness and then last of all, how physically gifted the QB is.

www.thephinisher.com

by The Phinisher on Sep 3, 2008 4:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

spot on...

exactly – there are many ways by which you can develop a quality QB or player for that matter but it all comes down to the DNA —
the guy either has it or he doesn’t…

And if he has it, isn’t it better to let him take his lumps on the field while he’s young and their are low expectations vs. a rodgers walking into a situation where he IS a first time starter and he does have a good team around him, and it’s just as likely that he’ll be ruined by that situation as starting ryan in atlanta this year.

by W NY Fins Fan on Sep 3, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always loved what Bill Walsh said

when he said “Joe was PART of a system,Dan was a system!”

To me that says it all and Walsh should know.

by buttonmashersrhilarious on Sep 3, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Phinisher

I stand corrected Jay Cutler Started the last five games of the 2006 season. I agree with some of what you are saying, but playing in college myself at a 1-AA school I can attest to some of the pressure these young players are put through. The speed of the game changes so much through each level it’s amazing ,and then to top it off these Quarterbacks are paid absurd amounts of money which only adds to the pressure, and yes there are exceptions to the rule. But they are not the norm. Take any good 1-A quarterback and pay him what he’s worth the league minimum or something reasonable groom him in a system build a team around him and you create a sucess.

miamidolphinzone.blogspot.com

by perfectvillepop.1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

well this is where we have to disagree

strongly….

not every QB if trained right will succeed… yeah some guys may know the game and understand how to run things but the will never have the god given talent that will allow him to overcome the elite football players of the NFL…. There is a reason that J Taylor makes 8 mil a year…. he can dominate over elite athletes…

my second point is… isn’t it better to let the guy learn the speed of the game on a team rebuilding with low expectations instead of dropping a guy into the fire when the expectations are high? How will A Rogers do this year?

I think Atlanta is doing the right thing dropping Ryan into the fire… sitting around 1,2, or 3 years with J Harrington or C Redman won’t help the long term development of the team in any real way…. what if he starts year 3 and they find out after sitting on the bench for 2 years he just doesn’t have it (R Leaf reborn) well the franchise has lost 3 years on a QB, plus they’ll need another 3 years waiting for their next first pick QB to season….

These guys are highly trained/highly paid Elite athletes, some have the acumen to lead others don’t, so when you hear a pro like Holiday say he respects Henne, and he can see his leadership skills… then you have to figure that the kid has something and it’s time to get him the experience of real NFL football ASAP.

by W NY Fins Fan on Sep 3, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs