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Tuesday Morning Notes

The Dolphins had a double session day on Monday and will follow that up with a single practice later on today at 2 pm.  Below are just some thoughts/notes for you to ponder to start the day.

BECK IMPROVING?
This is a big week for John Beck, believe it or not.  It's as big of a week for him as it possibly can be considering it's just the 2nd week of practice in training camp.  But now is the time for him to come out of his camp-long slump and begin to play like he knows he is capable of.  It's time for Beck to make his case as to why he should start Saturday's preseason opener against the Buccaneers.

And I think he knows this, too.

John had his best day of practice today.  And now he has pulled into a tie with both Josh McCown and Chad Henne in the "having a very good day" competition.  Each have had one, by most accounts.  Today John made plays down the field - something he hasn't done yet in camp.  He seems to have put more trust in both his instincts and abilities as well as in the receivers' abilities.  Less thinking and more trusting.  And it's this kind of performance that could possibly be used to spring board his chances in the QB competition.

If you simply look at the stats, though, you won't  be overly impressed.  He threw one touchdown pass and one interception over the course of Monday's 2 practices.  However, you need to consider that Beck had 3 dropped passes that also would have resulted in touchdowns.  And can you imagine what the media would be saying if John had thrown 4 TDs in one practice?

But it goes beyond the stats.  For the first time, we read about John making great throws.  Ben Volin described two of John's throws this way:

[John] comes back with a beautiful throw to David Martin over the middle, threading it between two defenders.


Nice improvisation by Beck on a broken play. He scrambles out of the pocket, waives for Jalen Parmele to break his route and streak to the end zone, lobs a perfect pass to Parmele, he’s wide open in the end zone …. and he drops it. D’oh.

Beck's performance was even enough to impress Omar Kelly - who isn't exactly a pro-Beck guy.

But, again, it's just one day.  But what hopefully will come out of today's improved performance from John is confidence.  Hopefully Beck has now shaken off most of the rust from the couple of weeks off before camp and can relax and just play some ball.  So tune in tomorrow for the next edition of "As the QBs Turn."

FIRST DEPTH CHART IS RELEASED
As mandated by league rules, the Dolphins have released their first depth chart of the 2008 season.  But, really, it's all worthless.  Even Tony Sparano says that, stating:

"It's something that we had to produce and put out there, so we had to put it out there. That depth chart won't be the same this afternoon, never mind tomorrow, so it's going to change every single day."

Some of the things that really show how irrelevant it is?  Trey Darilek is listed as the starting RG despite the fact that Donald Thomas has been working as the starting RG for the longest of any of the lineman battling for that job.  Ernest Wilford is shown as the starting WR opposite Ted Ginn despite spending Monday working with the 2nd team while Derek Hagan worked with the 1st.  Rookie Kendall Langford is shown as a 3rd teamer on the chart despite seeing extensive work with the 2nd.

So is it even worth discussing?  Possibly.  It does show Davone Bess as a 3rd team WR, along with David Kircus, only behind Ginn, Hagan, Wilford, and Greg Camarillo.  So Bess could be in position to win that 5th WR job as an undrafted free agent.  It also shows Anthony Fasano unseating last year's starter David Martin at TE, despite Fasano missing all of the off-season work due to an injury.  So while I think there could a few things to take from this first depth chart, the only things we know for sure are that John Denney is the unquestioned long snapper and Brandon Fields is the unquestioned punter.

ROTH GETTING OLB EXPERIENCE
Last week it was Vonnie Holliday.  This week it's Matt Roth getting some work at the outside linebacker position.  He's getting looked at as the strongside linebacker in Miami's 3-4 defense, with Joey Porter moving over to the weakside.  The strongside is the more "run-stopping oriented" position of the two, while the weakside is more the "pass-rushing oriented" position vacated by Jason Taylor.

Again, it's just an experiment right now.  So I wouldn't read too much into it.  But it does show that this coaching staff is willing to get creative and really try new things to help generate a pass rush to replace Jason Taylor.  Perhaps this could be a look in passing situations, with Porter moving to the weakside to rush the passer.  But that will depend on how well Roth does dropping into coverage.

I'll be interested to see if the Dolphins try out some of these new looks in the preseason opener.

That's all for now.  One practice tomorrow at 2 pm.

Thoughts below...

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Nice summary...

thanks Matty :) Read in one of the papers that Sparano is quite high on Roth and singled him out when the Phins played the Cowboys as a guy with a strong motor who had to be watched, Appears he’s impressed with his strength and burst and feels he could make the transition to OLB. Remains to be seen but I had high hopes for Roth when we picked him so it’ll be interesting to see how he handles it.

C'mon over to Shady's world, MiamiDolphins.co.uk

by ShadyMDUK on Aug 5, 2008 12:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Found it...

, it was Omar Kelly in the Sun-Sentinel: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-mattroth080408,0,4695933.story

C'mon over to Shady's world, MiamiDolphins.co.uk

by ShadyMDUK on Aug 5, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you

I’ve been high on Matt Roth since we drafted him as well. He was a beast @ Iowa and ive had high hopes for him, but 4 years later i’m still hoping.

by David Dwork on Aug 5, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good stuff Matty

things will come together here…no injuries thus far and thats key. I hope Beck and Henne make McCown so expendable we waive him. That would mean these 2 young guys are that good

Its Sunday afternoon.....do you know where your beer is?

by Rzayo24 on Aug 5, 2008 1:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Matty did you catch what Sparano said about Roth?

I told you barring injury Roth is going to have a great year.

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

Coach Paul Bear Bryant

by AussieKen on Aug 5, 2008 6:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Beck is the guy

Fugettabout it.

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

Coach Paul Bear Bryant

by AussieKen on Aug 5, 2008 6:24 AM EDT reply actions  

FINALLY!!!!

Hopefully he can build on this day of practice, start against Tampa, and put to rest this crap about being a “bust”.

Now is the time- the time to rise up from the depths of Hell and stake our claim back on top of the AFC East...Look out Gaytriots here comes Jake Long and the Phins

by FinzD54 on Aug 5, 2008 6:35 AM EDT reply actions  

If a tree falls and other random thoughts...

If the receivers can’t catch should they be called receivers? It’s like fishing, are you catching or hoping? These guys look like hopers to me. Maybe the media should start calling them targets. The QB’s can aim and hit them, but they still don’t catch. By week 10 or so, the QB might switch from footballs to bullets. They will be targets alright!.

If the line is a sieve and receivers can’t catch, even Marino would look like a bust. This is going to be Ugly. I’m talking Ugly like the guys on the BILLboards are Ugly. 3-13 Ugly. Expansion Team Ugly. When Parcells built teams win, they win Ugly. But this is going to be losing Ugly. There might only be 10-12 guys from this team still around in three years Ugly. Jesus was a miracle worker, but even he had some fish and bread to work with. The only people watching will be die hard Fin Fans and 53 Moms it will get so Ugly. And my guess is we will lose a good portion of the Moms before the season is over!

by LL on Aug 5, 2008 7:34 AM EDT reply actions  

Way to stay positive there LL...nice work.

I don’t think any of us are expecting to make the playoffs or anything this year…but as a true fan, one has to stay positive and upbeat and continually think about something good that is coming out of pracitce and every game. Take your negativity elsewhere.

by dlux2561 on Aug 5, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Humor

It’s humor…all humor has a little truth to it…I mean do you really think the qb’s will start shooting at the WRs or the players Mom’s will stop watching? Besides, every day that goes by, every practice, every game, gets one day closer to the 2009 draft and free agency. Until then, root hard against the Redskins.

by LL on Aug 5, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Even if...

Beck does not succeed in being the starter this year and is not the savoir of the universe, he will practical to have on depth chart unitl Mister Right comes along. Don’t cut ties with him just yet, he could come handy one day !

by sportssaga on Aug 5, 2008 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

It's one good practice.

He still has to prove himself. This site is wont to jump to quick conclusions.

I am still looking forward improvement from all 3. Henne has really surprised me with his quick adaptation to the NFL level. Maybe he’ll start in week 10.

by joel311 on Aug 5, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply actions  

OOOOOOONNNNN ABOARD

All the days Beck had the bad camps, nothing said. He gets 1 “decent day” in all of a sudden he is “making his move” and Beck is the man, It’s all about the recievers dropping passes.

Matty I now preaching the “The Gospel of John” free aboard the “Get Behind Beck” train.

Are you kidding me? Anyways.

Receivers do need to quit dropping balls, I’ll give ya that. But they are an area of improvement, just like every other area. I gurantee they are not saying I need to start catching these passes to pad Beck’s stats so the media can go crazy for him like you all are. They are trying their best for themselves, not anyone else.

FIRST DEPTH CHART is just a yawner, its nothing.

As for Holliday and Roth getting looks at LB, I think its a good idea. Parcells/Sparano will try just about everyone at every position to get the most out their players. Squeeze and squeeze this team till you can’t get any more talent out of them.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

by Neo on Aug 5, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions  

LOL

@ one good day = ‘making his move’.

I’m just waiting for this coming saturday so we can see these guys in an actual game situation.

by Natalya on Aug 5, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

i waiting for saturday too

when henne starts, does well & beck plays the 4th with the other cut line players,,,,

then we can get back to talking about what team they’ll trade checkdown to, an if it’ll be a 5th or 6th rounder

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 5, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't hope he fails

I see it more as resource management… the resource is snaps and work with the first team… just like last year when the management wasted tons of that resource on C Lemon, I really don’t want to live through another year of wasted snaps on Beck(or mccown either for that matter). As I’ve stated countless times, management chose Henne to be the future, and things aren’t going to turn around until that QB position is solidified, so i’m pulling for the future.

So right now, my dream scenario is for Henne to keep progressing, like he has, take the first team snaps early, have the team do well, and put to rest any QB issues for the next 10 years….

Say your guy Beck, steps up and wins the starting job, and Henne stays flat for camp… Now its game 12 of the year.. the team is 3-8??(just picking a number based on vegas saying 5-6 wins) Beck has had 2 bad games in a row… what is going to happen…. everyone will know, well it’s time to look for henne. How can the team stay unified behind the guy with that knowledge.

The reality is since Henne is around, Beck cannot truely succeed because he has no real basis of support. The people who drafted him are gone. The admin that is around brought in the other 2 guys to take the job from him and they have no direct connection to the guy… It’s almost the same in cleveland, anderson has a great year, closes out the year with 2 bad games and everyone is waiting for Quinn to take over. How can Anderson truely be the team leader, when he knows as well as his team mates, that at any moment Quinn can take over…

The only scenario where I can see Beck becoming the franchise QB for the phins is once Henne gets the job, he fails, and with Henne that has to be over 2 seasons. So once again, its best for the phins if Henne goes in before Beck….

Plus the other thing that really bothered me about Beck, was the reaction of the team when Cam pulled him in Buffalo… (2 points). the team acted like d marino was going in and we all know cleo was d marino and that was a game where they were down 17 at that point and cleo hadn’t scored 17 in a game. Then Cleo throws that TD pass and its like they won the super bowl… the second part is, when Beck was pulled, did any (and I mean even ‘one’) player go and pat beck on the back? not as far as I saw, he was alone… so if the QB doesn’t have the support of his team mates how can he lead them…

I just don’t see Beck as a positive asset for the team right now, and its my belief that BP never really believed in his ability, that they hoped that he could have a good season ala anderson and then unload him for picks.

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

doh!!!

that should be ” we all know cleo WASN”T d marino”

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 6, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh and you never answered

my question to you on an earlier thread… what has he done that you believe in him so much?

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

what has Beck done?

He’s worked hard and when I watch his tape from BYU, he has a ton of talent. You just don’t lose that all of a sudden.

Then you factor in that he’s the underdog here….and I love underdogs.

One thing, though. If this regime chose Henne as the future, then why did they pass on him at #32? He could have easily been drafted before #57. Then what? If this regime liked Henne as much as you seem to believe they did, why did they take a chance on having him taken before they picked again at #57? That’s what I wonder. (Well, I don’t really wonder. But I can’t say what I really want to say here.)

by Matty I on Aug 6, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Matty I!!

you can add to that, that on the reports, comparing Henne this year with Beck last year, it was said, that Beck was a lot better than Henne on the boards of the teams. But that is not the point. Beck HAS NOT play a complete season and people judge him like as if he has play a couple of year. He has play a couple of game with a depleted team, for God sake!! and two team were the in the top 10 D of the league

I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(21 years and counting)

by Aleta on Aug 6, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beck's vision

In one of the blogs (Sun-Sentinel? Was it Omar or Harvey that said it?), an idea was put forth that Beck can’t see his receivers and is sometimes guessing.

Beck: 6’2”
Henne: 6’3”
McCown: 6’4”

How much does an inch or two matter? Obviously there are other factors that make a great QB or Doug Flutie never would have had such a long career as a starter. How much are these guys encouraged or discouraged from rolling out? It sounds like maybe McCown is the best scrambler. I’d like to see Beck succeed, but I do remember him being pretty antsy in the pocket last year – which I guess is normal for a rookie.

by ZIM on Aug 5, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply actions  

not just height but vision

and understanding of the offense… the greatones are able to throw to the spot were the reciever will be, because they can process a reading of the D and this is something that most ave qb’s cant and are unwilling to throw to spots they cant see clearly… so think of vision in a broader sense….. and with all the balls beck has batted down it appears he is uncomfortale throwing to spots he’s not scanning.

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 5, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to WikiAnswers:

“After tallying the current starters stats from NFL.com, 6’3” is the average height. “

Is our OL taller than the rest of the league? I don’t think it’s really the problem.

by joel311 on Aug 5, 2008 12:01 PM EDT reply actions  

John Beck can do this, the question is not can it is will he...?

Here are a few things that I have learned watching Beck for the past 8 years:

1. Nobody works harder.
2. Nobody cares as much.
3. He has all the tools.
4. He is very smart.
5. He is tough on himself.
6. He hates to lose.
7. He can overthink…especially when HE puts the pressure on HIMSELF.

Beck’s Senior season is the example of what happens when he “trusts” himself…that is the exact description Brandon Doman (QB coach at BYU) gave of what happen in the TCU game follwing when John sat out a cupcake game agaist Utah State and watched his back up who had nothing to lose trust the system and the recievers and throw the ball down field (and his arm wasn’t half as strong or as accurate as Beck’s) instead of checking down all the time as John had all the last year.

In other words, if he ever consistantly gets his confidence to override his head he will be literally unstoppable.

He has what takes to do that…will he do it in the NFL? I think he will. Again, I have seen the lights come on before…he wants it bad enough.

This is nothing new. John is John’s greatest asset and he greatest enemy…when he starts feeding the right inner wolf watch out. I made the same statement on a board befoer his senior season because I watched his work ethic and desire and it convinced me that he would figure it out eventually based on character and he did.

He will do it again, he is all quality as a human and a man.

by AlpineCoug on Aug 5, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Don't care if he does these things

1. Nobody works harder.
2. Nobody cares as much.
3. He has all the tools.
4. He is very smart.
5. He is tough on himself.
6. He hates to lose.
7. He can overthink…especially when HE puts the pressure on HIMSELF.

If he can’t produce on the field, GTFO.

Understand what your saying though.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

by Neo on Aug 5, 2008 11:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Neo, i beleived that..

you should care for those thing(the 7 ingridients). You know why? because with those ingredients you will get the production on the field. Take one of those ingridients and you get an average QB in the NFL or a journemen. Beck, if given the time, could do good thing, even great thing in the field. The only thing bad that can be said about Beck is his age, that’s all.

I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(21 years and counting)

by Aleta on Aug 5, 2008 11:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Disagree

because with those ingredients you will get the production on the field

I’m sure alot of players have those same qualities that just don’t pan out. Good things don’t always happen to good people. Doings these things could translate to better play, but its not a given. Fact of the matter is, Beck was throwing to all these receivers all of last year (except Wilford) and should have a leg up on the other QBs, but he is (in most peoples mind) 3rd stringing it.

At a certain point all those tapes, hard work, studying, all those things that you mentioned has got to translate on the field. And it better start translating soon because Parcells isn’t gonna wait till he is 30. (Or even maybe 28)

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

by Neo on Aug 5, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

amen

I recall a P King article about Bill Walsh… Peter claims to have asked Bill about a couple of roster moves, where some quality character guys were cut and a couple of less than ideal individuals were kept… Aparently Bill responded by saying, yup he could have had a team full of great guys who looked good chasing the other team over the goal line….

sometimes its about DNA and not character and work ethic.

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

well that and

Aleta ~~The only thing bad that can be said about Beck is his age, that’s all.~~

and he can’t hold onto the ball or lead a NFL team so far.

by W NY Fins Fan on Aug 6, 2008 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

He has only play 4 games..

and BTW, without a RB or OL, no Chris Chamber, so his TE and WR corp was bad and a bunch of droppers. How do you espect him to be a colosal QB? Just let him play this season and then discard him. What do we have to loss, we are no going to the playoff this year with or without Henne, so. Putting Henne in there, at this time, i think is a mistake.

I will see the Dolphins win a SUPER BOWL before i die(21 years and counting)

by Aleta on Aug 6, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

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