Grade the Fins Draft
by Natalya
on Apr 27, 2008 6:24 PM EDT
With the draft behind us, it is time to look back.
We won't know how 'good' (or bad) the players we picked up will be.
We do however know what the Fins needs are and who was available to fill those needs.
So here's the question...in terms of filling needs and in terms of talent, how would you grade the draft? Explain your grade and what, if anything, you would have done differently.
Looking forward to reading your comments!
This fanpost was written by one of The Phinsider's registered users.
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A
We beefed up the OL and DL, added a tough runner, got a QB lower than he was initially valued, and made no mistakes in my mind. Obviously for anyone who was in the live draft chat, I wanted a OLB and WR, but seeing guys at both positions available in UDFA, and seeing how many OL were taken, I think we went in the right direction with each pick. The only pick I question is Lex Hilliard, but its not enough to drop the grade below an A for me. There’s some solid players available in FA as rookies, so we’ll see what else Miami does.
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 27, 2008 6:50 PM EDT 0 recs
i think it was a solid draft
adding the fact that a draft pick trade resulted in a LB and TE, the Fins netted 11 guys that solidify positions of need.
Nothing too flashy… even the Jake Long pick was a safe, solid pick. While I was hoping for a WR and a CB, I feel very confident that the caliber of the Fins Offense and Defense both have just improved significantly. I can’t remember the last time that I felt this confident about a Dolphins draft.
I give it a B+
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 27, 2008 6:53 PM EDT 0 recs
BTW, does anyone have any ideas about what the Fins will do now to address
WR and CB?
Do you think we are set? Do you think we will bring in a ton of UDFA guys? Do you think we will add guys after the June 1st cuts?
I have a hard time believing that we are set for the season at either of the two positions.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on Apr 27, 2008 6:56 PM EDT 0 recs
Scary to think
we would be set at CB & WR as is huh? :)
by Natalya on
Apr 27, 2008 10:35 PM EDT
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i felt that Henne was a shock, but a good value...
...though i agree w/ Nicky, Hilliard was a pretty questionable pick in regards to who else was avail. at the time + our immediate needs….and many may disagree but i thought we really could use a talented corner.. i miss the days of Madison/Surtain… im sure we all have our preferences tho and overall i was very impressed and it feels really good to be able to say that…. A-
by Krab on Apr 27, 2008 7:28 PM EDT 0 recs
haven't looked at the details yet
but my initial opinion is a solid C.
Positives
They addressed some needs… JLo was a great pick especially considering the run on tackles in the first round,
but i’m not sure they picked up another needed game 1 starter. They picked up D-line guys for the future…
They started building their future bases (o-line/d-line)
Negatives
A couple of big ones – didn’t get any help in the secondary. especially a big CB – and there were some opportunites. They passed on getting help at reciever and some good ones were availible in the second round.
They passed on those for a QB….
They traded booker for a 4th rounder – to pick up a needed guard which is ok but then have to draft two rb’s to replace him…
by W NY Fins Fan on Apr 27, 2008 7:30 PM EDT 0 recs
I agree that they missed
filling some key needs by taking Henne but…and this is important, is the Henne pick bad if Parcells & Co. basically don’t think Beck is the answer?
I tend to think they do not see Beck as the answer and thus ‘had’ to draft a QB high.
by Natalya on
Apr 27, 2008 10:39 PM EDT
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agreed
yup – if they don’t think he’s the answer then I agree it’s an ok pick, except what do you base Beck not being the answer on?
you can’t really count last season because of the coaching staff and the poor planning/game planning? So I would have rather seen them draft for needs (cb/wr/ol – say grecco(sp?) and gone with a project qb (dixon, J johnson) because this pretty much scuttles Beck as the QB if they do like him….
How can beck play with BP’s guy right over his shoulder? How can the team not know that Henne’s BP’s guy and will be taking over…. Have to say it’s time to call Bmore and see what they’ll give for Beck and get him out of the mess he’s now in.
by W NY Fins Fan on
Apr 28, 2008 12:30 AM EDT
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I don't actually see not addressing WR and CB as a "failure"
i think there is only so much you can do, and as I have said many times, the rebuilding includes this year’s FA and Draft, and next year’s FA and Draft.
So that being said, if I were interpreting at what the “blue print” looks like after seeing this year’s FA and draft, it is fair to say that their is a very high probability that most of the components of the OLine and the run D have been aquired and next year there may be only a couple of “finishing touches to add in the these areas. In other words, “Phase I Complete”. :)
Also, if I were BP and Co. trying to assess the DBs and WR from last year, the first thing that would strike me is that there is some talent their, and it was used poorly last year. How much talent? I think you need a functional Oline and Run D to evaluate fairly, and then you need a coach who can use it correctly. IMO
As for the QB quandry, as much as I have been pulling for Beck to get a fair shake, I am VERY confident that if you throw those three QBs into competition, the Dolphins will play the best guy, and that’s what it’s all about. If Beck doesn’t have the mental toughness and confidence to compete and win, then he’s not the guy anyway. I think it is a good thing.
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on
Apr 28, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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Impressive
That was very well put and I agree with everything. But umm, Sir (or ma’am) could you please stop posting under Lefts name, he’ll start taking credit for this. Tyvm.
You savvy?
by Neo on
Apr 28, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
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okay, that was funny!
but seriously, how did you know it’s not me?
;)
-LCFF
by LeftCoastFinFan on
Apr 28, 2008 1:43 PM EDT
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Impostor!
We here at phinsider know our lefty isn’t nearly that analytical, rationale, or non-partisan!
by Natalya on
Apr 28, 2008 1:59 PM EDT
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It's hard to miss water....
when you fall out of a boat. Not sound too negative here but I think every player picked is an upgrade, or a good insurance pick. I don’t think that we have that many good players on our roster at the moment, so upgrading is easy, like hitting water after falling out of a boat. One thing that had to happen is we needed to sure up the O-line, which we did, needed DE/LB for the 3-4, a QB to develop (sorry Matty I, but I disagree on Beck), a bruising running back and so on. Receiver is reasonably set with Wilford, and the secondary should be average without so many injuries. I think the Booker trade was a good one, he’s not the type of back that will produce much in this type of cram-the-ball-down-your-throat offense that I expect we’ll have next year.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, professionals built the Titanic." -Unknown
by Daren on Apr 27, 2008 7:48 PM EDT 0 recs
Final Grade: B+
Jake Long Grade: A
(tough decision with enormous long term implications and got him signed early)
Philip Merling Grade: B+
(value pick, complete good versus run/pass and explosive de, should have gone cornerback [Tracy Porter] here)
Chad Henne Grade: B+
(value pick, franchise QB attempt 1.0, should have gone cornerback [Pat Lee] here, too)
Kendall Langford Grade: B-
(needed run stopper, perhaps taken too early)
Fourth Round Pick for Ayodele and Fasano Grade: A
(two starters for one 2nd day pick, rebuilder’s delight)
Shawn Murphy Grade: A-
(Fast learner, hard worker, and potential starter. Bright future)
Jalen Parmele Grade: A-
(in case Ricky has a recurring seasonal weed control problem, could carry the load, if Ronnie goes down again, may have too. Big Upgrade to Jesse Chatman.)
Donald Thomas Grade: B
(great potential and lots of time to develop, nice find)
Lex Hilliard Grade: B+
(may win the starting fullback job, which isn’t saying that much)
Lionel Dotson Grade: C
(wave player, gotta trust Parcells on this one)
Final Grade: B+
by DolphDallas on Apr 27, 2008 7:57 PM EDT 0 recs
its early but...
i think im sick.. its early to tell but i dont think any of our picks with the exception of long was worth squat!!!!!!!!!!
did this NEw REgime not look at anything last year…
our secondary is SWISS CHEESE literally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
we traded Zach and who???? we let a couple go right past im having problems with it….
sorry Tuna im not sold on anything ,then again i dont get paid hundreds of g’s a year to make these picks. but im not stupid either
D-
only the future will tell
What happend to the Killer BEEs
by FinfanT on Apr 27, 2008 10:15 PM EDT 0 recs
Well...
so I gather you don’t like this draft….who would you have picked?
by Natalya on
Apr 27, 2008 10:40 PM EDT
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nat
i would have been much happier if we would have added a cb and ilb with one of our seconds and even our third..
like i have said all along if we were going to draft a qb it should have been ryan, the 2 running backs were icing on the cake for me..
granted they are the pros i am just a fan, but our secondary should have been addressed, because this draft had alot of talent at the DB position, besides the fact we have moss and other very good receivers in our division.
once it sets in im sure i will be happy but im a little bitter still
What happend to the Killer BEEs
by FinfanT on
Apr 28, 2008 10:02 AM EDT
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Ok that's reasonable FinFan...
I think the consensus, and this is strictly us fans talking – is that BP & co, wanted to get the team better along both lines (offensive & defensive line) first. Then next year’s draft they would address the skill (WR, TE maybe) positions on offense and secondary (CB, S) on defense.
Seeing as BP’s run here is more than likely your standard 3 year plan – the thought is, this draft he strengthens the lines, next year he bolsters the skill positions and secondary, and then hey, we compete! :)
Now let’s hope the plan works!
by Natalya on
Apr 28, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
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B+
For all the reasons laid out by Lefty and DolphDallas. Would be an A-, if we’d taken a WR or CB instead of one of those RBs.
Also worth mentioning: the Fasano pickup, which should be included in grading this draft, will help our young QB (whomever he may be) a LOT.
by urbino on Apr 27, 2008 11:09 PM EDT 0 recs
Dolphins:RB::Packers:QB
Only more so, since we’ve got 2 proven stars already.
by urbino on
Apr 27, 2008 11:13 PM EDT
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Before you grade out
check the Undrafted FA thread, we’ve signed a WR (Davone Bess from HI) and a couple others already.. I do agree with everybody saying no secondary help, but lets wait and see what happens with the rest of the UDFA and June 1st cuts… Sheppard may get released if Philly can’t find a trade partner… its pretty clear they don’t want to have to pay him this season
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 27, 2008 11:18 PM EDT 0 recs
B
Subject to change after this year. Get back to me.-)
You savvy?
by Neo on Apr 27, 2008 11:53 PM EDT 0 recs
QB
Matty I keeps saying that “Matt Roth and Vonnie Holliday are officially on notice.” Well John Beck and Josh McCown are too. Drafting a QB in the 2nd round is not a vote of confidence for Beck. Lets call it what it is. Josh came in to be the “veteran QB” not to be a starter or anything. Beck is not a “Parcells” guy.
I wouldn’t mind Chad riding the pine for a while and watching if he doesn’t win the QB positon, but I’m not willing to just had it over to John or Josh. Peeps on here are just assuming John will get the nod, why? He has that much experience over Chad or that much better than Josh? He is essentially a rookie as well – Cam didn’t play his @ss. Not to mention he is, like everyone, going into a new regime with a new system and new coaches. What gives any of these men the leg up?
I think the QB position is up in the air. I do want (and expect) for Chad to get on the field sometime this year, for I know these coaches are gonna want to see what he has. Unless Beck is really lightin it up like Brees did when SD drafted Rivers.
Bottom Line: One of these QBs are not gonna be on the roster come next year – Henne- McCown- Beck. Two of them Parcells went and got, the other one isn’t.
You savvy?
by Neo on
Apr 28, 2008 12:39 PM EDT
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Some good observations Neo...
Your comment about one of these QB’s not being on the roster next year makes a lot of sense.
And given their respective tracks and tenures, the one under the most scrutiny is probably going to be Beck. McCown was brought in as a backup so he understands his role although I’m sure he’d love to start. Plus, BP & Co. did pick McCown as their backup over other available choices. Henne meanwhile is now the protege and will get the benefit that comes with being a chosen prospect by this regime as well as being a 23 (at season’s open) year old rookie. Henne doesn’t need to produce much in year 1.
Beck is the guy who needs to produce if he is to stick around. The fins can’t afford for him to play like a rookie. If he does play like an inexperienced guy, making mistakes, turning the ball over, and not producing points then I think he’s out. Out not just as the starter but from the roster potentially…
by Natalya on
Apr 28, 2008 1:58 PM EDT
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except
Everyone knows Henne is BP & co guy and he WILL get an opportunity to play. So I just don’t understand wasting the extra snaps on Beck…. It’s obvious they didn’t think Beck is capable of being the starting QB or they would have used a valuable 2nd round pick on a more pressing need. Time to get what they can for Beck and give Henne the snaps. (something Cam didn’t do last year wasting time and energy on Cleo)
So after drafting Henne – think of it this way McCown = younger but crappier Green, Beck = lemon, & Henne = Beck
now we know how Cam ran that situation, should they do the same thing again and set back Henne’s development to use on Beck?
by W NY Fins Fan on
Apr 28, 2008 9:03 PM EDT
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I think I disagree
not so much with the fact that Henne will get his opportunity, but moreso with you saying Beck shouldn’t get a shot. At this point, its still largely unknown how good/bad he really is. I think having them both is like hedging your bet… One of em hopefully will be the QB of the Future, so why stick all your eggs into Henne’s basket? Give Beck a chance to prove himself, and allow Henne to sit, learn, absorb, and work with the coaches. If Beck is not our guy, then Henne will be prepared to step in when his time comes… If Beck can perform, Henne will be waiting in the wings to take over when his time comes. I’ve come to agree with taking another QB, but I don’t think we should write everyone else off.
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on
Apr 28, 2008 9:16 PM EDT
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because
just like last season – when you take snaps and practice time away from Henne to give to beck you are retarding Henne’s development… Look this has nothing to do with Beck since my personal choice would have been to take anyone but a QB for the first 4 rounds and then take a J Johnson or dixon (one of those developmental guys) as a long term insurance plan, but now that the triad has chosen Henne as the QB of the future, its time to get on with the development of that future. Beck isn’t their guy or they would have passed on Henne.
These guys are experienced and they know the effect of having two QB’s of equal standing does to a team, so by the pure fact that BP chose Henne he is the guy. Beck will never get a fair shake with the dolphins unitl Henne flames out(if that ever happens), since everyone will just be waiting for that time until Henne gets in, including his teammates….
So really compare it to last season
You have an experience vet of questionable quality – mccown – who is brought in as a care taker by the current admin…
you have slightly experienced back up who was brough in as a project of the prior admin…
And you have the 2nd round QB of the future chosen by the new guys…
When you examine it under that light, it’s pretty clear that Beck has to go since his position only detracts from Henne’s development…. Henne has to be the coach’s top priortiy.
by W NY Fins Fan on
Apr 28, 2008 10:44 PM EDT
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I wouldn't compare it to last season
because obviously Cam had no idea what he was doing. Compare it to San Diego’s situation a few years ago. Take McCown out of the equation for now because he’s strictly a backup. Rivers had plenty of time and practice to develop into a good QB, and that was while Brees took reps with the first team and grew into the pro bowler he is today. Remember, they ended up getting Rivers with the first overall pick after the Eli trade, so he was expected to come in and perform right away. Brees wasn’t what they expected, and before then had shown no signs of being a good QB. Both QB’s ended up pretty good I would say. Beck can get his reps and get his chance without it “retarding” Henne’s development.. our coaching staff/front office is much better than the Mueller/Cameron team of last year.
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on
Apr 28, 2008 11:05 PM EDT
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can't compare it to the SD
situation… for a couple reasons….
first – drew started the 2? or 3? previous season and had pretty much flamed out at that point.
second – rivers came in late – had no experience and just like quinn last season gave away the job that was his to the established veteran by default….And brees, with a little help from a RB & new TE started winning while rivers wasn’t ready in year one….
now compare that to the miami situation…
Beck has essentially the same experience as Henne, since we both agree Cam wasted a season on him.
McCown is the veteran brought in to keep the seat warm (kind of playing the Brees role …minus the talent/leadership of course)
So if you start Beck – what do you do with Henne? scout team like beck last season where he doesn’t get any snaps with people who play on sunday? and doesn’t develop a relationship with those guys? and if you make henne #2 to give him snaps and practice time – why did you spend all that money on mccown…
why do you assume Beck is any more ready to play then Henne?
nope the reality of the situation is you can’t have two QB’s of the future and these guys made their choice for the future at #57. Right or wrong that has to be the focus of the team now…
by W NY Fins Fan on
Apr 28, 2008 11:28 PM EDT
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continued..
Brees was on his way out the door before he started winning games. Your right that he started because Rivers wasn’t ready, but he wasn’t the vet just there to keep the seat warm for a few games, they gave him one last shot at becoming a good QB and that’s what he did. I see McCown in the Doug Flutie role (yes he was on that Chargers squad), just a buffer between starter and rookie in case Brees got hurt early or was completely ineffective. I see that happening with Josh.
As far as Beck being more ready than Henne, I would think he is, based on the fact that the new coaching staff has been working with him since the day they got here. They haven’t neglected him or cast him off as a reject who’s just holding a roster spot until the new QB arrives. They’ve focused on him and he’s put in more with coaches this offseason than he did all of last year. And I think there’s plenty of snaps to go around, there’s no need to relegate Henne to scout team all year. There’s also preseason when Henne can play a few series’ with the first teamers as well.
Beck will get the majority of the first team snaps in practice, with McCown and Henne splitting the remainder, and handling most of the second team snaps. Plenty of franchises have been able to effectively groom their rookie QB while still allowing the unproven guy to earn his keep.
I don’t look at it as 2 QB’s of the Future right now, because both guys haven’t proven a thing. At this moment, we have 0 QB’s of the future until one or both of these guys can show the coaches they can lead a pro offense. I can’t see this regime dumping a guy before they know what they have with him.
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on
Apr 28, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
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don't tell that to
I can’t see this regime dumping a guy before they know what they have with him.
to LoBo?
I stongly disagree with two points you made – but we’ll just have to wait and see who is right on these…
1 – you say ‘there are plenty of snaps to go around’ – i strongly disagree here… there aren’t enough snaps to go around. you have to give your first stringer snaps to stay sharp and devolop with his receivers 2 – you say ” Beck will get the majority of the first team snaps”... just don’t see that happening. my guess is Beck may get the start in the first preseason game and that will be it… Mccown will start the season and Henne will be #2 until the line is ready for him. There is just no way that the team can have any confidence in Beck when everyone knows it will be Henne by mid season. 3 – they had to work with Beck in the off season – they didn’t know how the draft would play out.what if the Jets took Henne at ?30? when they traded up? I suspect we’ll start hearing the focus of the team is on Henne now.
Finally – you say ‘both ugys haven’t proven a thing’.... not quite true, Henne has proven that he’s the choice of this admin when they passed on some pretty good talent on the board to take him at #57, but otherwise you are correct that Henne has to show that he can lead a pro offense, otherwise they’ll be drafting a QB next season early.
by W NY Fins Fan on
Apr 29, 2008 12:16 AM EDT
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I tend to think W NY
is right here in saying there really aren’t enough snaps, not for 3 guys anyway. Meaning someone is going to be getting very few snaps or maybe even running the scout team.
And I wouldn’t be shocked if McCown was the starter at the opening of the season.
by Natalya on
Apr 29, 2008 11:42 AM EDT
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Link to Ireland Press conference
http://play.rbn.com/?url=nfl/nfl/open/dolphins/demand/080426_Ireland_Day2.rm&proto=rtsp&lid=Draft_Day2_Wrapup300
Day 2 wrap up conference he talks about JT, our second day picks, a little draft strategy, what we’ll look for in UDFA, and a few other things… take a look
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on Apr 28, 2008 12:02 AM EDT 0 recs
if the link doesn't work
its on miamidolphins.com in the video box on the right
http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball
by Little Nicky 21 on
Apr 28, 2008 12:03 AM EDT
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B: solid and mean
Trench warfare where size and agression are gonna cause all sorts of problems for our AFC East buddies. A draft that really did go from inside to out and in contrast to CamCam’s speed kills philosophy…hence bye bye to Lobo.
We are the new nasties on the block.
by Corroncho on Apr 28, 2008 3:47 AM EDT 0 recs
A- to B+
I think we revamped the D-line, which was greatly needed. I think Merling and Langford will be VERY good. They are both 2 of the best DEs against the run that were in the draft. I think the drafting of Jake Long and Shawn Murphy solidified our line. I hear that Murphy has a very high potential… kinda reminds me of what they were saying about Satele last year. So, I think our o-line is set. I think we will pick up more o-liners after the June 1st cuts. I think we got a very Parcells-like player in the Toledo running back. Chad Henne gives more competition for our QBs, which is very good. Henne is the youngest, so I kinda hope he becomes our “Tom Brady”... that isn’t saying he is going to be that good, but I think he could be a very solid QB.
That is my review.
~>JDPhinFan<~
by JDPhinFan on Apr 28, 2008 9:30 AM EDT 0 recs
db and wr
Its been stated numerous times that we are not one draft away from being a playoff team year in and year out. That said I think its not a bad thing that we didnt take a DB with a pick in this draft. The only place it would have been worthwhile to take a DB would have been 32 or 57 and we got a first round prospect DE and the QB they wanted all along. The “Trifecta” is obviously building inside out so the out will be the last thing we get to.
The RBs taken given kinda urked me but if you sit and look at it like this it makes sense.
Ronnie- Hasnt made a full season/coming of acl surgery
RIcky- Well dont really have to explain
Patrick Cobbs-Oooook
Regan Mauia-Whipped guys ass for looking at him likely cut
Boomer-FB/St guy
If you look at it that way and see what we have given ronnies injuries and rickys lack of reliability does taking 2 rb (one likely a fb) really that bad of a pick?
And for the WR we have Wilford who is a move the chain cross the middle player and we have the speadster in Ginn and the other WR we picked up his name is not with me right now. And as of this post we picked up Hawaiis best WR from last year.
I guess my point is that we did address the WR not in the draft persay but definatly this offseason. The DB postion will be addressed maybe not this year but im sure it will be addressed in the next draft (we did cut worrell :)
oh yeah GRADE:B+
by jwillis9 on Apr 28, 2008 11:09 AM EDT 0 recs
Let me just say this
I gave Parcells and CO a “B” grade, but who am I? After what Bill has done with EVERY FRANCHISE HE WENT TO, am I to question him? As much as we like to think we “know” so much and “should’ve” done this, we are just fans. I trust in Parcells to rebuild this team and this is a classic Parcells draft. Build from the the OL/DL out and draft RBs in the later rounds and see if you can find a nugget. Yeah we need secondary help and maybe some WRs as well, but we can’t get em all in one draft or one FA period. After Parcells is comfortable with the OL/DL lines he’ll address the other areas, but not until then. And none of us should be suprised.
This is what rebuilding is and it’s gonna take a few years. Parcells came to “lay the foundation” and that start at he lines. This team and ALL of its needs weren’t gonna be addressed in this offseason alone and we shouldn’t had expected them to.
You savvy?
by Neo on Apr 28, 2008 12:53 PM EDT 0 recs
nice neo
This team has been needing this “REBUILD” for what 6 years now. All of us fans want it and now its happening and we still have people saying what about WR/DB? You dont start a rebuild going and drafting WR/DB do you, well some of you might but guess what BP dont, and as hes the boss we have to live with it. Like I said in my previous post I love the direction we are going, give them some time guys.
by jwillis9 on Apr 28, 2008 6:37 PM EDT 0 recs
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