What they're saying...

by Matty I on Mar 4, 2008 12:19 AM EST in 2012 Miami Dolphins News

JASON TAYLOR STILL TO BE TRADED?
By now I'm sure you've all heard about the he said, he said saga regarding Jason Taylor's future in Miami. The latest was reported by Chris Mortensen, who said that Bill Parcells told him Taylor will be back in Miami in 2008 (unless he retired). Well, apparently, not everyone is buying this. One of those people is Greg Stoda:

The cold truth - and there's precious little of any other kind in the NFL - is that Taylor doesn't fit Miami czar Bill Parcells' restructuring model. Taylor will be a 34-year-old defensive end next September, which makes him too old; he'll carry a $7.5 million salary, which makes him too expensive.

He also is still very good, which makes him more valuable to the Dolphins in trade (For a first-rounder? Multiples in lower rounds?) than he would be in person on a team that's going to be somewhere around 4-12 with or without him.

Parcells denied an Internet report that the Dolphins want to trade Taylor before next month's NFL Draft by calling it "totally untrue" and "journalistic irresponsibility." Well, of course, he did. What else was Parcells going to say? And it's worth noting right here how Heat czar Pat Riley recently denied intentions to trade Shaquille O'Neal almost right up until the time he sent him off to Phoenix without appreciable second thought.

That's how these things usually proceed.

The word gets out. A denial is issued. A deal is made.

Parcells says Taylor's options are to play for Miami or to retire. But that's nothing more than the boss weaving himself a safety net in the event the case gets ugly. Parcells knows perfectly well that he'll accept any proposal he deems worthwhile in exchange for Taylor.

This is more or less what I was thinking. I get the feeling that Bill was pissed about Jason Cole's story because it hurts him from a bargaining position. And Stoda's point about the Shaq trade is right on the money. Riley denied all season long that O'Neal wasn't going anywhere. But when the right team offers you the right deal, you pounce. That's what I expect Parcells to do. And if no deal entices him, Taylor will probably be back. After all, there's no need to trade JT. It's not like this team strapped for cash or anything.

The question, though, that many fans don't see an answer to following Calvin Pace's decision to go to the Jets is who would replace Taylor at OLB in Miami's 3-4 defense (if that is indeed what they run). It's been rumored for a while that Darryl Blackstock, Pace's backup in Arizona, is one potential candidate. Of course, he's far from a safe bet to pan out and earn a starting spot. The recently signed Charlie Anderson is another idea, but I don't know nearly enough about him to make any kind of assumption on if he'd be able to succeed or not as a starter.

But one player we can't forget about is Quentin Moses. Moses was signed by Miami back in October after the Raiders released their 3rd round pick. He also spend about 6 weeks in Arizona before they ditched him. At 6'5, 257, Moses has the size and speed needed to excel as a 3-4 outside linebacker. And this signing by Randy Mueller may prove to be one of his better moves as GM of this team, as even Bill Parcells is impressed with Moses, according to Omar Kelly:

Quentin Moses is a keeper. I'm told Parcells likes him and thinks he can be developed.

No matter what happens, this is going to be an interesting story to keep an eye on. And if anything involving Taylor was to happen, I think it would likely happen prior to April's draft. So these next 7-8 weeks will be quite telling.

PARCELLS WANTS MATT RYAN FOOTAGE?
There was an interesting little tidbit in Peter King's latest MMQ column:

I think you shouldn't make too much of this, but Bill Parcells, czar of the Dolphins, holder of the first pick in the draft, called Boston College coach Jeff Jagodzinski the other day and requested video of every one of quarterback Matt Ryan's 654 passes last fall. I still say Ryan at No. 3, to Atlanta, makes the most sense.

Really? Every one of his passes? You're telling me our VP of Football Operations actually called a college coach himself (when there's a number of people working under him who could do this) and requested EVERY pass Matt Ryan threw last season? Somehow, I don't buy it. What I do buy is that this is just Bill's latest smokescreen, and an effective one at that, because just the idea that Bill is looking at every pass Ryan threw in 2007 is an endorsement in itself for Ryan. This, along with Chris Mortensen's report about Josh McCown likely to be the #2 quarterback, has to really be making Atlanta nervous (if they are indeed looking seriously at Matt Ryan).

Thought on any of this?

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Comments

I hope they work

If this is just a smokescreen (in both cases), I hope they sell. Jason Taylor is probably my favorite defensive Dolphin of all time, but he won't be on a Super Bowl winning team if he stays with Miami for the next couple years so I think we should take what we can get for him. He is starting to lose a step and if we could get a 2nd and 3rd (or a 2nd and 4th or maybe even a 1st rounder) for him we would be better off. We already have two second rounders and this draft is loaded with OL and DBs so I think we could build our secondary and get some quality offensive line depth (maybe even starters) with those picks.
As for Matt Ryan, I think we would be better off with Joe Flacco in the second round although I still have questions about him too. If we could get the Falcons first rounder and possibly second rounder along with other late round picks, we could still take Jake Long or Chris Long. I personally hope we get Jake Long or Vernon Gholston. Jake Long would likely solidify our line at the tackle spot for years. On the other hand, Vernon Gholston would be great as a 3-4 linebacker. He's strong and probably is the quickest off the edge of anyone in the draft. However, the earlier that he's drafted, the more money he will want (like Pace).

by mikey2380 on Mar 4, 2008 1:57 AM EST reply actions

This Is Just A Leaked Story...

...to see if Parcells can drum up interest from another team in a trade, specifically Atlanta. Anyne really believe that Parcells hasn't already seen every play for most, if not all, of the top potential draft picks? Plus, as noted in another story, the teams request college film from the NFL office anyway. Heck, I'm sure Parcells could get it from ESPN too if he wanted to. That'd really spread the "rumor".

All the posturing and misdirection this time of year is fun. Its especially fun when your team is in the driver's seat.

by dab415217 on Mar 4, 2008 8:00 AM EST reply actions

You're so right

Atlanta is managed just badly enough to fall for the Matt Ryan ruse.

by seamusfurr on Mar 4, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions

About

JT, I think Bill was just upset at the information being put out there about a potential trade. It does you no favors as a GM to have a story saying you are openly shopping your defensive star player. Nor does it help give you much leverage.

I can still see JT being traded if the right offer comes along. If someone gives you a first rounder, then I suspect they (Bill & Co), do the deal. And I have good reason to think that Bill has a plan in mind for JT's spot. Whether one of the player's he's already signed or someone in the draft.

As for the Matt Ryan video request. I think of it this way, that's the equivalent of walking in somewhere and asking a question.....with a bullhorn! This is just to make sure everybody knows he is seriously looking at Ryan, or at least thinks he is. I'm not convinced the Falcons necessarily want a QB at #3, as they can easily pick up one in round 2. However, if they want a qb at 3, then they may have to deal with us.

by Natalya on Mar 4, 2008 9:31 AM EST reply actions

What It Means

Quentin Moses could be very good but the Dolphins will draft a OLB like Chris Long or Vernon Gholston. If Pace had been signed then they would have had the luxury of drafting Jake Long.

They're going to be involved in a trade concerning Matt Ryan, even if they have to draft him to force someone's hand.

Also, if they draft Chris Long then Taylor could still stay and play at OLB while Long plays D-End for a year or two. He's got the size.

None of this necessarily means anything other than our boy Bill is playing a lot of head games.

by The Phinisher on Mar 4, 2008 9:36 AM EST reply actions

Why so hard to believe?

~just the idea that Bill is looking at every pass Ryan threw in 2007~

If your possibly gonna put 30 mill into someone, don't you wanna look at last detail of this person's work?

"It all starts with the Dolphins," an executive with another team said Sunday, "and not a single person here has any idea what they're going to do."

by Neo on Mar 4, 2008 10:01 AM EST reply actions

From PFT:

FINS DENY REQUESTING RYAN TAPE FROM BOSTON COLLEGE

Earlier on Monday, Peter King of SI.com wrote that Dolphins V.P. of football operations Bill Parcells asked Boston College coach Jeff Jagodzinski to send along video of every pass thrown by Eagles quarterback Matt Ryan in 2007.

A league source promptly pointed out to us that this is a no-no.

But Dolphins Senior V.P. of Media Relations Harvey Greene told us via e-mail that no such request was made by Parcells or by G.M. Jeff Ireland.

And even though it's technically a violation of the rules for an NFL team to request video directly from a college, it's not to prevent pro teams from getting a competitive edge. Instead, as NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told us, it's designed to keep college from being inundated with requests from 32 franchises.

The goal is to maintain good relations with the 100-plus programs that make up the NFL's free-of-charge farm system (as Maurice Clarett called it in his lawsuit aimed at forcing early entry into the draft). Aiello explained that videos requests are coordinated directly through NFL Films.

In our view, an NFL team would only make a request directly to a college program in the hopes of keeping the folks at NFL Films (and, in turn, other teams) from putting two and two together. Indeed, one of the breakthrough scoops for the site that blazed the path for us, the now-defunct NFLtalk.com, was that the Colts would draft running back Edgerrin James instead of Ricky Williams. As we recall it, the report was based in part on a tip from a source at NFL Films regarding a request that the Colts had made for all college tape of James.

But if the Fins asked for the Ryan tape from B.C. in order to keep other people from finding out about it, King wouldn't have known about it, either. So that explanation doesn't make sense in this specific situation.

"It all starts with the Dolphins," an executive with another team said Sunday, "and not a single person here has any idea what they're going to do."

by Neo on Mar 4, 2008 10:05 AM EST up reply actions

Oh Ok

I was wondering why that rule was in place

by Patssuck456 on Mar 4, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions

Simply put

Pro Beckers and people who don't want the team to draft Rayn will say this is a smokescreen. Peeps that do want the Fins to draft Ryan will say that the request is sincere.

Odds are if Parcells did make the call, there was more to the convo than "Can you send me a vid of all of Ryan's plays last year?", "Sure","Ok, thanks bye".

"It all starts with the Dolphins," an executive with another team said Sunday, "and not a single person here has any idea what they're going to do."

by Neo on Mar 4, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

You Bring Up An Excellent Point.

I'm sure a call was made, but not to request film, as has already been denied. To me, it'd just be common sense to talk to his Head Coach for the last 5 years.

by dab415217 on Mar 4, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions

Actually

Jeff Jagodzinski was a first year head coach this year with B.C. If they want to know everything about Matt Ryan they must contact Tom O'Brien, the current N.C. State coach. He recruited Ryan and coached him from 2003-2006 at B.C. Ryan was redshirted in 2003.

by JMFlyer1454 on Mar 4, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions

I Believe...

...that Parcells and his crew already have all that tape and have watched it a few times.

I'm one of the few hoping he does take Matt Ryan. I believe Ryan is the real deal. I'm also one of the few that thinks Chris Long is a smokescreen, not Matt Ryan. And that Jake Long may be a great T, there are too many good ones in this draft to pick him #1 overall.

Of course, April could prove me to be wrong, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

by dab415217 on Mar 4, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions

It's hard to believe because...

...that isn't something teams do. They do not look at 650+ plays of a player for the draft. And if they do, the VP of Football Operations isn't the one who does it.

by Matty I on Mar 4, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions

Really?

So, you're saying that fully researching what could be the biggest decision for your franchise, even for years to come, would not include watching every play a particular player was involved in, probably even multiple times? I would say that him and his staff would be neglecting their responsibilities if they DIDN'T do this.

We in complete disagreement about this.

by dab415217 on Mar 4, 2008 11:45 AM EST up reply actions

No, he is saying that we all know

that Parcells did not take this position with the Fins to sit down and sift through film.

It makes sense to thoroughly research your draft picks, and I am sure it is being done. But, I guarantee you Parcells is getting the summary version. Somebody else is doing the heavy lifting.

You don't need to personally look at 650 plays to see if a QB has a hitch in hs delivery, or has mobility issues.

Now that doesn't preclude Parcells making the call to ask for the film. It is just unlikely that he is gonna be the guy to review all of it. That is probably the HC/OC/QBC jobs.

by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 4, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions

the good ones do

Bill Polian

is on record and open about the fact that when they had the number 1 and had to choose between Manning and leaf they went back and watched the tape of every throw each one made in college. He said after watching the tapes it became very clear that manning was the better player and that the reports that leaf had a better arm were totally incorrect....

but I guess that is why some GM's are good and others draft good families.

by W NY Fins Fan on Mar 4, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions

Thoughts

I really hope we can trade Jason Taylor, even though he is my favorite defensive player of all time (I'm only 20, so I haven't been around to see some older greats). We need to get younger, and JT needs his chance at a ring. The dream scenario: Give Dallas Jason Taylor in exchange for their later 1st (maybe we can get them to throw in another later round pick).
Benefits:

We get 2 first round picks (or 3 including the 32nd)
Zach and Jason are reunited and both have a great chance of getting a ring on a Super Bowl caliber team (Jason, Zach, and Demarcus Ware would be a nightmare for opponents)
We save $8 million give or take to sign younger athletes.

I definately think Parcells is trying to smokesreen Atlanta to trade to the #1 overall. Parcells will draft a QB in the 2nd - 3rd rounds to come in and compete fro the starting job with John Beck... They do like John Beck, and don't want to draft a guy #1 overall. If we trade with Atlanta, we will just pick one of the Longs (most likely the one the Rams don't pick). We really, really need to start getting active in signing free agent offensive lineman though. You can't realease 4 (or however many they released), and just sign 1. I am starting to get frustrated with the lack of signing outside of the Linebacker position we have made.

~~ FINGUY23 ~~

by JDPhinFan on Mar 4, 2008 10:04 AM EST reply actions

Dallas Won't Do That...

Dallas runs a 3-4, and has its LB's in place, enough said. Plus Jason Taylor is not worth a first pick to any team. He is an excellent player, but he is not a first round pick.

The Patriots Suck

by k2oconnor on Mar 4, 2008 4:18 PM EST up reply actions

JT's Spot

Chris Long will play JT's spot in the 3-4.

by marcu01 on Mar 4, 2008 10:11 AM EST reply actions

Maybe trade Taylor to the Vikings for good picks

Vikings Running Out of DE Options
Posted Mar 3rd 2008 9:03PM by JJ Cooper

Minnesota's had a very solid start to free agency, but to really complete their offseason tweaking they need to add at least a solid backup quarterback and a starting defensive end.

They can still fill the quarterback slot with a number of options, but time has run out on filling the hole at defensive end.

First the Vikings decided not to get involved in an insane bidding war with the 49ers for Justin Smith. Then they watched an equally talented if slightly cheaper Antwan Odom bolt for the Bengals. Now with Travis LaBoy about ready to sign with the Cardinals and Calvin Pace locked up by the Jets, there's really not any appealing options left.

At this point it seems wiser to maybe re-sign Darrion Scott and simply turn to the draft to fill the hole at DE. With Scott, Brian Robison and the always injured Erasmus James, the Vikings may be able to get by again next year, if they can snag a starter in the draft. It's not an ideal situation, but at this point it beats paying Jevon Kearse a ton of money to find out that he's still washed up.

~~ FINGUY23 ~~

by JDPhinFan on Mar 4, 2008 11:16 AM EST reply actions

Why would Atlanta be fooled?

Everyone keeps talking about "fooling" Atlanta into thinking that Miami is going to draft Ryan, so they'll trade with us. I don't think they are silly enough to make that determination based on this story or any other head fakes. They'll just look at Miami's roster and the top players in the draft and that's all they need to know.

I'm no expert, but I don't see Miami drafting Ryan and I think other teams will see the same. Drafting him with the intent to then immediately trade him is extremely risky, unless you're sure that another team is desperate to take him. I think Atlanta has to be interested in Ryan, but I'm not sure what they would give up in such a scenario. They seem relatively happy with Redman and might just try to draft Flacco or Henne later.

I'm rooting for Jake Long. Our skills players suck and need all the protection they can get.

by New York Fins Fan on Mar 4, 2008 11:28 AM EST reply actions

I Agree Atlanta Won't Be Fooled...

...but not tipping your hand works in many ways. This also helps in negotiating with multiple players prior to taking them. I've got to believe that Parcells is going to do everything in his power to have a signed deal before he makes the pick.

by dab415217 on Mar 4, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

Good post

and I've alluded to much the same in some of my comments here.

The falcons can easily get a QB in the 2nd round without giving up any extra draft picks or players (like Hall for instance).

And I find the idea of drafting Ryan solely as trade bait to be extremely risky.

Oftentimes, we see QB's be highly rated pre-draft, only to suffer big drops on draft day. Look no further than Brady Quinn last year or Aaron Rodgers a few years ago.

It is very well possible that teams don't see Ryan in nearly as high a regard, as the football media/experts seem to.

by Natalya on Mar 4, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions

Actually Nat, no one is grading out

as high as most other recent drafts. It is the curse of the Fins.... when they get a high pick, the draft is mediocre at the top. So I agree that it would be tough for anyone to be totally sold on Ryan, but who else you gonna take at number 1?

For the Fins, either Long is probably the safest pick. And unless there is some "good ol' boys" club that's has Howie calling in a favor (a BIG one), I don't see us taking C. Long. I know, i know... from all of you Jr. Chris Long Fan Club members... it could happen. But I think, with the moves we have made on D to shore up the front 7, and that we will probably grab a CB in the 2nd, that the bigger need between the two Longs is on the O-line.

So again, I think it comes down to Jake or Matt. And, as stated many places already, there is a depth of OT this year that would allow us to pick one later.

The one thing that almost everyone agrees with regarding Matt is this: He is the "most NFL ready" QB in the draft. Now if I am the Falcons, and I want a guy to play this year, maybe it is important enough to get "that" guy??? I dunno, but it sure seems like it could happen.

by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 4, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions

Chris Simms?

By RICK STROUD
Published March 4, 2008

"Now the trade for Griese leaves Simms' future with the Bucs in doubt. Simms has not played a meaningful snap in about 16 months since undergoing a splenectomy and could be traded or released. The Bucs also have Jeff Garcia, Luke McCown. Bruce Gradkowski and Jake Plummer under contract.

The Bucs and Broncos have filed a grievance against Plummer, hoping to recoup more than $7-million in signing bonus money.

Simms would appear to be the odd man out. Griese and McCown will battle for the No. 2 spot, and Gradkowski will have to improve his play to return for a third season."

~~ FINGUY23 ~~

by JDPhinFan on Mar 4, 2008 11:35 AM EST reply actions

At this point...

Parcells would only be doing his boy Phil a favor....and I've had enough of management making decisions based on family connections. Chris is not ganna be an elite QB in my opinion.

by YatilGinnJr on Mar 4, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions

Dolphins targeting special teams players now:

According to Sun-Sentinel:

"After spending the first few days of free agency targeting potential starters, the Dolphins have apparently turned their attention to upgrading the special teams unit, which last season was among the worst in the NFL.

According to a source, former Bengals receiver Tab Perry and former Chiefs fullback Boomer Grigsby are visiting with the Dolphins, and both could receive an offer based on special teams play."

~~ FINGUY23 ~~

by JDPhinFan on Mar 4, 2008 12:52 PM EST reply actions

Packers

Now that Favre has apparently retired, might they be looking at Ryan?

Just a thought. They probably don't want to go with a rookie, but the FAs out there are not stellar.

by New York Fins Fan on Mar 4, 2008 1:58 PM EST reply actions

nah

they took Rodgers in the 1st round a few years ago with the intention of him being the heir aparent. He shined in his one appearance vs Dallas this year... Farve dug them a hole early tho before getting injured. They may pick up a veteran like Trent or Dante or somethin as insurance

by YatilGinnJr on Mar 4, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions

Matt Ryan=Bust

Why? He threw 19 INT's in the ACC. I go to school in Boston, and have seen every B.C game hes played. Yes he made some brillant plays, yes he supported his whole team but he is not going to be a great QB on the Dolphins. If he drops and goes to a team with a supporting cast around him then he will be a better QB there. I just do not see the Fins who invested a 2nd round pick in Beck draft Matt Ryan with the first.

Plus JT will be traded, think about it. He expressed his frustration last year about the youth movement and wants to win. Parcells loves to built through the Draft, getting two more picks for Taylor would just help Parcells do that. Of course he denied the reports if he did not the value of the trade goes down. (I love JT hate to see him go, but if he gets traded I would love to see him have some team success in his closing years)

The Patriots Suck

by k2oconnor on Mar 4, 2008 4:25 PM EST reply actions

Atlanta + Matt Ryan = Move up

The most telling move by Atl was picking up Michael turner. They definitely need a crowd pleasing QB now to take the sting out of the Mike Vick loss. All Miami has to do is draft him and then trade him. Fins hold the cards on this for a nice move down. I hope they trade the #1 for the #3 and deAngelo Hall or their early second round. Sending Taylor to Minnesota for the 2nd and 3rd would also help restock.

by kevin @ The Phinsider on Mar 4, 2008 7:26 PM EST reply actions

The only reason that might be possible

is because Miami could use him if the couldn't trade him. But drafting a player just to trade him is generally a risky move.

by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 4, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions

Bpgus Idea

Name me one instance where a team went into the draft banking on drafting someone with the first pick to trade him. You do not draft a player to trade them. With the first pick especially you draft someone you feel can be an impact for a long time.

Please do not give me Eli Manning b/c he was traded once he refused to play for San Diego and if you say Elway he was traded once he said he will play baseball instead of play for the Colts.

The Patriots Suck

by k2oconnor on Mar 4, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions