Thoughts on John Beck from a BYU fan's perspective

by Matty I on Mar 26, 2008 4:33 PM EDT in News

In this diary, a reader by the screen name of "VegasPhinFan" gives us a little perspective on John Beck from his days at BYU. Interesting stuff, so I decided to move it to the front page so those who missed it can read it:

Yes, I'm another one of those BYU fans/Beck supporters that has recently began following the Dolphins because of John. I just want to say a couple of things.

I was probably more disappointed in his rookie season than most of you. He was a stud in college and in my opinion at that time, was better coming out of BYU than Steve Young was. Most people place the blame on the coaching, but I'm not sure if that was it. John just seemed to look like he did when he first started at BYU as a freshman. To tell you the truth, I yelled at him constantly during his first two years at BYU. He always overthrew his receivers and always rushed his decisionmaking. He settled down for his last two years and was an absolute stud his Senior year.

So, why does that matter? Well, I am betting that John just needed to fall on his face a couple of times (or in his case fumble) to gain some perspective and motivation. I think he's got it now, and he'll drastically improve over the next two seasons. It sounds like he's getting a lot more grooming from the coaching staff this off-season and he's working his tail off.

It's also interesting to note that Steve Young had a very similar rookie year with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Their offensive line was horrendous and Steve got sacked a billion times and he looked like a joke. Hopefully the comparison will hold and John will turn out just as good as Steve was once the team around him improves. (Steve will always hold the edge over John on mobility though).

Thoughts below...

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Comments

Fellow BYU/ Recent Dolphin Fan

I agree completely with VegasPhinFan's here. I felt the exact same way last year and hope Beck does come together next year. If there was a definite Peyton Manning coming out this year, I would agree that we need to draft him. Since there isn't, I like either Longs. Let's build the team, because it may not matter who we have behind center. The quarterback can only carry the team so far. If Beck does not progress, then let's draft a franchise QB next year. The team will have improved and a new quarterback will have a better chance at succeeding.

by dal on Mar 26, 2008 6:01 PM EDT 0 recs

there don't appear to be any franchise QBs

coming out next year.

Just wanted to point that out. We should draft someone this year in the 2nd/3rd round and let him sit for a year. Can't have too many good QBs.

by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 26, 2008 9:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Exactly,

exactly, exactly. Let's be patient, and watch this kid. You won't be disappointed!!

by Alpha6 on Mar 26, 2008 6:19 PM EDT 0 recs

Man I hope you guys are right

This team has so many other needs outside of the qb position so if Beck can hold down the spot and progress along the lines of the Steve Young comparison, the rebuild may take less time than we thought.

http://canemutiny.blogspot.com A fans view of Miami Hurricanes Football and Basketball

by Little Nicky 21 on Mar 26, 2008 6:25 PM EDT 0 recs

I might be the lone dissenter here but....

I don't think John Beck is the long term answer at QB. I know that most all of you here at phinsider like him and think he can get it done, but I don't think he showed anything last year that says, "yeah, he could be a pro bowler". I know, I know, he was a rookie on a 1-15 team, but why didn't Cam start him in weeks 16 & 17 after they had won in week 15? He had nothing to lose by starting Beck, but he didn't. I think it showed that Cam had lost faith in him to the point of starting John was more embarrissing than starting Miss Cleo. You guys forget, he had trouble with the basic fundamentals; like not fumbling snaps, and hitting receivers out of the flat.

by Daren on Mar 26, 2008 6:28 PM EDT 0 recs

Sorry, but....

Lets not jump all over a CC decision as the smartest thing in the world. He was a rookie coach that made a lot of rookie mistakes and his handling of players has left many scratching their heads. (What about Lorenzo Booker?)

Plus, Cleo didn't have problems fumbling the ball either?

I'm not saying Beck is the long-term answer nor am I ready to anoint him the next Marino, but he has shown a very accurate and strong arm when given time to throw. (Which you have to look long and hard for last year) Plus, he never played on a team that had a running game to take the pressure off of him nor a TE to help bail him out, etc.

Lets give the kid a chance and see what he can do with a full compliment of players on the offensive side of the ball and if he then proves not to be the answer, then you move on.

I guess my question would be - What/Who is the better solution right now? Ryan? (How many INT's did he throw last year?) McCown?

Definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

by azphinner on Mar 26, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

I grant you....

that Cam may not have been the genius that we thought he was before the season, but he certainly knew the abilities of Beck and Lemon better than anyone else. And he went back to Lemon after he benched Beck. Yes, the team around him was terrible, but JB didn't seem to be able to do the simple things right. I just think it's mighty suspicious that Cam was so high on him coming out of the draft, yet by the end of the year it seemed that he was starting the guy who was least likely to embarrass the franchise in an already historically embarrassing season.

That being said I thought they should have started JB the last couple of games.

And that being said, no I don't think Ryan is the answer. I think Sparano & Co. should draft a QB like Brohm or Henne and develop them.

by Daren on Mar 26, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can respect a...

fan's admiration for a player, in this case the poster of the diary thinks Beck is an excellent prospect. That's fine and we can all accept that as a reasonable opinion.

Quite honestly for me though, the notion of Beck having to fail first before becoming good/great, etc is not particularly relevant.

At 27 and on a team very much in a '3 to 4 year plan' (Parcell's likely tenure here) with long, long standing problems at QB - I think he needs to start producing on the field.

And here's what needs to happen IMO...

Beck needs to beat out McCown and any other QB(s) we get in training camp, hands down. Play like the starter from day one and lead by example. That will make his teammates have more confidence in him.

Then come the regular season, he needs to take better care of the ball and cut down on mistakes.

He doesn't need to be a star in 2008, but he does need to be solid and give the team far better QB play than we had from any of the QB's last year.

A better supporting cast will help but Beck himself also has to produce.

by Natalya on Mar 26, 2008 8:36 PM EDT 0 recs

Nicely said.

Although I am a little less adamant about him beating McCown by any great length in TC. I still think that McCown is-what-he-is, so to speak. We have no need to see what his upside is, whereas Beck needs a chance to play to determine whether or not he can improve and develop. I think we play Beck unless he totally falls apart.
And we still need to draft a QB this year.

by LeftCoastFinFan on Mar 26, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

ha ha

I like this guy ;)

finz-freak

by finz55 on Mar 26, 2008 9:25 PM EDT 0 recs

Ya know

its touching and all, and I welcome the new Finfans. But the only thing I'm concerned about John Beck is from a Miami Dolfan perspective. This Miami Dolfan, and quite frankly he hasn't shown me nothing. Zip, Ziltch, Notta.

I see paitence, but we can't have too much, he is 27 this year. Matty I your more pro-Beck, than I was anti-Cameron, not that there is anything wrong with that mind you.

But Beck was just plain, flat out, awful. He showed me nothing that would have me put any trust in him. Collage play doesn't always translate in to Pro play. I don't care how much Jaws or any other experts/fans love him, I want results because at the end thats all that matters. We need to have our @ss covered in case 6-7 games into the season Beck STILL isn't holding on to the ball, and/or he STILL isn't moving the team down for points.

"It all starts with the Dolphins," an executive with another team said Sunday, "and not a single person here has any idea what they're going to do."

by Neo on Mar 26, 2008 11:30 PM EDT 0 recs

Beck and Eli

We need to give Beck a chance. Eli Manning really didn't come to form until the end of this past season.

Beck has the release, accuracy, and arm for the NFL. Let's give the old young guy a chance...

by gophish on Mar 27, 2008 2:19 AM EDT 0 recs

A few observations about this....

1 ) Eli has been in the league for 4 years. Yet he is just a few months older than Beck

2 ) Is Eli really a top QB? He had a passer rating of 77 during the regular season and a career passer rating of 73 and change. Just for comparison, the immortal Jay Fielder has a career rating of 77.

3 ) If you think Eli is an elite QB, then are you willing to give Beck 4 years to reach that level of a 73 rating?

by Natalya on Mar 27, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

Eli Manning

Eli may not be an elite QB, but he has something that no QB in Miami has had since the 70's. A superbowl ring. So right now, I would simply take a good season and just make it to the playoffs when compared to what we have. It was a mess out there last year and things have to get better.

by resman on Mar 27, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Bingo

"It all starts with the Dolphins," an executive with another team said Sunday, "and not a single person here has any idea what they're going to do."

by Neo on Mar 27, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Once upon a time...

...Qb's were drafted and EXPECTED to hold a clipboard for 3-4 years before they were ever considered ready to start in the NFL. Nowadays, with the huge contracts given to high draft picks, plus the short lifespans of coaches in the NFL, QB, especially those at the top of the draft, are expected to come in and make an impact right away. I think that is asking a little much.

The test for Eli Manning is what he does starting next year. Is he capable of playing at near the level he played in the playoffs. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl, so its obvious it doesn't require an elite QB. It requires one that limits mistakes and manages the offense well. I don't expect Eli to be an elite QB. instead, I expect him to be at that tier just below elite...in the top 10 or so in the league. He's at the age now where a QB should be hitting his prime. Which brings us to John Beck.

Is John Beck going to end up where most 27 yr old QB's who haven't proven themselves yet? Which is as a career back-up, occasional starter? Or the rare oddity like a Steve Young/Rich Gannon who develop later on in their careers into a good/great QB. We SHOULD get a better feel for that answer this year. I have always maintained that I would LOVE John Beck if he was 22/23, the normal age of a first or 2nd year NFL QB.

I've never been a fan of passer ratings. While generally they are ok, some systems, especially the West Coast offense, which is based on a short, quick passing game, which favors high completion rates, also favors the passer ratings system. You show me QB's that have a passer rating in the mid-80's while being near the top of the league in yds per completed pass, and I'll take him anyday over the guy in the 90's who plays in a West Coast offense and whose avg yd per completion is low. But that's just me.

by dab415217 on Mar 27, 2008 12:39 PM EDT 0 recs

Eli...

What you describe here:

"You show me QB's that have a passer rating in the mid-80's while being near the top of the league in yds per completed pass [ to me that means someone like Marino ], and I'll take him anyday over the guy in the 90's who plays in a West Coast offense and whose avg yd per completion is low [ i interpret this as a Jeff Garcia type]."

And in that I would agree.

The thing about Eli is that he doesn't play in an offense based on a short yardage passing game, nor does he have a high yards per attempt average either.

Eli finished 25th in QB ranking, just ahead of the memorable Cleo Lemon but behind, yes behind, Joey Harrington and Kyle Boller.

Now if we could say Eli had a high ypa then maybe it could be justified. Except, Eli had a YPA of just 6.31 which puts him behind the same Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, and even Chad Pennington, that I mentioned earlier. You look at Eli's completion rate and it was just 56.1% - better than only 4 QB's. Finally, he threw a league-leading 20 interceptions.

Did he win a super bowl? Yes. Did he have a great playoff run? Yes.

Is he an elite or even above-average QB? Not IMO. Not when he's at the bottom of virtually every metric out there, comp %, interceptions, ypa. To me is he is a guy with a great last name (family) who is basically average and won a super bowl on a team with a top pass rush against a one-dimensional passing offense.

Maybe he really shows his worth next year, but I think the jury is still out on him.

by Natalya on Mar 27, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Agree...

Manning had a great playoff run that carried right through to the SB. He didn't have the greatest of seasons overall though - go read the NY press clippings that ripped him most of the season. Not to diminish his effort at all, but lets call it what it was...

There have been plenty of QB's that have carried their teams through to the SB because they got "hot" at the right moment and might not have had the greatest of seasons. Trent Dilfer? Lets also not forget our own David Woodley who was a dynamic QB, but not great in any sense of the word. Mark Rypien?

What these guys all have in common is that they got hot at the right moment and their play carried their teams. But other aspects of their teams also stepped up and played outstanding as well. The Giants had a really strong running game last year and their defense stepped it up a notch in the playoffs and played a great game in the SB. Same thing about the Ravens with Dilfer.

I wouldn't say Eli is an "elite" QB in the NFL, he is above average in my mind, but not top 10..

I say you have to give Beck a chance to see what he can do. He has shown signs of being a decent QB, but he has also showed signs of being no better than Cleo. (Sorry John) But, you need to see which one comes through this season. We won't be in the SB this season regardless of whether his play is outstanding or not, but if you think he can lead this team going forward, you have to let him play and see...

Definition of Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...

by azphinner on Mar 27, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Dab415217 is correct on the clipboard comment

But John is in just a little bit different situation. He's 27 instead of 23, and he's on a team whose fanbase expects every QB to play like Marino, a fanbase that has absolutely no patience to let a QB actually develop. Especially for a 27 year old QB. John also really doesn't have that much help from the O-line or the receiver corps (how many of John's passes were dropped balls).

So...If I were John Beck...I would love the position that I was in. You're expected to be Marino as soon as you get there. Everyone is demanding immediate NFL level performance during your rookie season because you're 26 and you don't have as much time to develop.

I'm sure this next comment might sting a little bit to some Dolfans, but I'd be willing to wager that if John doesn't develop this next season, Dolfans will demand a trade and he gets traded to a team like the Bills or the Jets and ends up torching the Dolphins later on in his career. How many times have Dolfans seen one of their former players do something similar?

Hopefully it doesn't come to that. John will play better this season, but let's all hope that it will be enough for all of those Dolfans who demand a Marino type of player for their QB.

by VegasPhinFan on Mar 28, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up 0 recs