Weekend Roundup

by Matty I on Mar 24, 2008 12:29 AM EDT in News Comment 19 comments

I hope everyone had a great weekend. And I hope those who celebrate Easter also had a great holiday.

Below is just some Dolphin nuggets that you may have missed over the weekend while you were busy enjoying whatever it is you did.

FINS TO RUN A 3-4
Interesting nugget in a Yahoo! Sports article about our Dolphins and their plans for the defense:

The Dolphins made it clear to several rookies interviewed at the NFL Scouting Combine that they will be predominately a 3-4 defense, so expect any draft picks to have plenty of experience in that scheme.

That seems to rule out DT Glenn Dorsey, who isn't considered healthy enough or strong enough to occupy two bodies at the nose in the 3-4. Virginia's DE Chris Long is believed to be the frontrunner for Miami's top choice, not only because he's used to Parcells' methods via Cavaliers coach Al Groh--a Tuna disciple--but he has the smarts and measurables to play in any system. He would be the perfect successor on and off the field to Jason Taylor, who is believed to be on the trading block despite Parcells' denials.

It's not really surprising considering Bill Parcells' preference for the 3-4 defense. And it's especially not surprising following the acquisitions of NT Jason Ferguson and DT Randy Starks. And while I don't think this necessarily means the Dolphins will indeed take Chris Long, though I'd bet he's one of the 3 players this team is considering, I do think that the above piece of info basically rules out Glenn Dorsey (and Sedrick Ellis, though I don't think he was even really a candidate) as Miami's pick. Neither of those 2 really fit a 3-4 defense. But, again, it's entirely possible that the Dolphins will pass on Chris Long in favor of Jake Long. After all, this team still lacks 40% of its starting offensive line.

But getting back to the defensive side of the ball, I was asked a few days ago who I thought would be starting along the front 7 as of today. And I think I have a pretty good idea. It would likely be Vonnie Holliday, Jason Ferguson, and Randy Starks up front with Jason Taylor and Joey Porter lined up as outside linebackers and Channing Crowder and Reggie Torbor on the inside. And while some fans still really like Matt Roth, I just don't think he's an ideal fit for a 3-4, as we saw last season. Randy Starks, on the other hand, really intrigues me. The more I read about him, the more I seem to like. He's got the size needed to play as a DE in a 3-4 or a DT when the team uses 4 down lineman. He could even move to NT if needed, though he is just slightly underzied for that. But Starks also possesses the ability to drop back into coverage if needed, which brings a different aspect to this defense. His versatility really excites me, to be honest.

MORE ON MATT RYAN'S PRO DAY
That same Yahoo! Sports article also talks a little bit about Matt Ryan and his pro-day workout. Here's what it says:

From most accounts other than the seemingly mute Dolphins' honchos, the Pro Day of Boston College quarterback Matt Ryan's was more scripted than the introductory speeches at Hollywood award shows.

While the 6-foot-4 Ryan came away with most of the nation's quarterback awards in his senior season, including the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm trophy, he didn't earn too many standing ovations from the 42 scouts and NFL reps on hand at his Pro Day.

That group included Dolphins quarterbacks coach David Lee and director of college scouting Chris Grier. The cone of silence is still in place at Dolphins headquarters, so don't expect any reaction to the workout from any team officials.

It's believed that the Dolphins are feigning interest in Ryan in an effort to entice some trade suitors.

Alright. So I'm known now as a guy who isn't very excited as the prospects of the Dolphins drafting Matt Ryan. But, can you blame me? Why is it that, outside of a handful of "talking heads" on ESPN and NFL Netowrk, I can't seem to find many people who are really sold on him? The article above says that Ryan "didn't earn too many standing ovations." Maybe I'm just too cynical, but how could the Dolphins even think about taking Ryan first overall when he clearly doesn't have elite physical tools?

Anyways, the article also talks about Miami's supposed interest in Michigan QB Chad Henne. But that's something I'll touch on later in the week.

WONDERLIC SCORES CREEP OUT
The Chicago Tribune gives us a preview of some of the Wonderlic scores of this year's top prospects. For those that don't know, the Wonderlic test is a test given out at the Combine that help gauge a player's intelligence. However, it's relevance to the NFL is debatable.

The way it works is that you get 12 minutes to answer 50 questions. A person of "Average intelligence" is believed to score a 20.

Matt Ryan and Brian Brohm tested well, with each scoring a 32. Joe Flacco scored a 27 and Chad Henne scored a 22.

As for the top tackles in the draft, Chris Williams led the way with a score of 32. Jeff Otah scored a 28. Jake Long got a 26 and Gosder Cherilus was right behind with a 25. The only top tackle to disappoint was Ryan Clady, scoring a 13.

Oh, and for those that are curious of last year's scores, the top 10 and bottom 10 can be found right here. Our very own John Beck came in at #10 last year, scoring a 34.

But, again, these scores really don't mean anything and certainly are not valid predictors of NFL success. After all, Dan Marino scored just a 16 and Brett Favre just a 22. Meanwhile, Brian Griese scored a 39.

So take these scores for what they're worth...not much.

Note: I've reset the main poll in the right sidebar to see if the opinions on who you all want the Dolphins to take have changed. We had 1,600 voters on the first one, so let's see if we can get close to that number on this one and then we'll compare and see how our opinions have changed since February.

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Gotta love it,

I know these wonderlic scores mean little, but have to be encouraged about Becks grade. It's just another reason to believe in the guy.

by feelthepain on Mar 24, 2008 12:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I'm getting sick of people calling for Beck's head. For a team that is supposedly "in trouble" at the QB position, Parcells and Co. aren't doing much to "fix it". I really think Beck will be great and I think they do as well. I liked him in college, and say what you will about Cameron, he was the guy that pushed for Brees and Rivers, and both of them have turned out pretty well.

by Enhalo on Mar 24, 2008 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The question I have

About who Miami will draft is this. Through out draft history the top pick is a QB, DE, or a LT 99+% of the time with QB being first most often, right? And some are talking about taking a DE who is to light and making him into an OLB. A position that isn't normally taken with the first pick, why? Because it's not as important a position, would you not agree? If we are going to ask Chris Long to change to a OLB why can we not ask Glen Dorcey to play DE in a 3-4. ITs ok for Chris but not for Glenn? Please explain. I think that Glen will be a force no matter where he goes and plays and I would be happy to see him here. Saying that I still fill that Jake Long is the best pick if we stay at #1 because when you plug him into the o-line we are now building we will have a world class o-line that can/will run on anyone in this league for the next 10 or so years. In my humble opinion.

by gafinfan on Mar 24, 2008 5:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We have plenty of DEs

Who plays RT? The Dolphins only have one starting OT on the roster, and we aren't getting another one in free agency. I think this is pointing towards Jake Long, sure we could take an RT later in the draft but that's really hoping and praying that he can plug and play. Jake Long is the one guy (that the Dolphins could reasonably pick) you can put right in the offense.

by Offer Doll on Mar 24, 2008 6:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ok Matty we get it

You don't like Matt Ryan. Geez. I'm very interested on how Brady Quinn and Matt Ryan do in the Pros. Alot of people are gonna be eating alot crow both ways.

"It all starts with the Dolphins," an executive with another team said Sunday, "and not a single person here has any idea what they're going to do."

by Neo on Mar 24, 2008 7:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Your Are Kidding?

His Pro Day was scripted?

News Flash: ALL PRO DAYS ARE SCRIPTED.

The standing ovations comment was a nice touch too. I get this vision of pro scouts standing up and clapping at a college pro day being a wonderful indication of how good the prospect is.

I'm sorry, but if you don't think that Matt Ryan has elite passing skills, you obviously have not watched enough of him. True, he does not possess an elite arm as far as pure strength is concerned. Guess what? Jay Fiedler had an elite arm when talking about strength. You could watch him at a Dolphins practice air it out 60-70 yds regularly, yet his arm strength didn't translate into games.

Hey Matty, I have a suggestion for you. Try thinking out of the box. We all know you don't like Matt Ryan. Post something nice about him. Post your own counterpoint to yourself.

All that being said, I don't think the Dolphins are going to take Matt Ryan. I don't think they are going to take Darren McFadden either, but I'm not going to rip the guy every chance I get.

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 8:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

P.S.

All you'll hear talking about the college players this time a year is the talking heads. The teams obviously are not going to be talking about propects before the draft. We all know thay are closely guarding their draft boards, except for the Cowboys, and that most info coming out now is probably BS designed to throw the other teams off.

Ultimately, the only indicator about the type of QB Matt Ryan is, or will be, is time.

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sorry

Fiedler couldn't throw his way out of a wet paper back let alone 50yards in the right direction. god i hated that @$$h9^&, the only reason he had winning seasons was cause of the KILLER BEES

What happend to the Killer BEEs

by FinfanT on Mar 24, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ron Jaworski Compares Matt Ryan to Carson Palmer

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/03/12/ron-jaworski-compares-boston-college-qb-matt-ryan-to-carso n-palm/

This page includes a video link.

Ok, a few people have sited the Jaworski review last year of Beck. Here is the same guy with his review of Matt Ryan. The thing I really like about this piece, and Jaworski in general, is that he always adds in the positives AND the negatives. He gives a truly balanced view IMO. I believe that of all of the talking heads, he and Mayock are the best.

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 8:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I reposted this is the Jaworski on Beck thread...

...as its probably better off there.

Feel free to delete this one. :)

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wonderlic scores

are just like standardized tests. They show how well you do on a standardized test, and not much else. Not to mention there have been studies showing huge cultural, class, and racial biases in those exams. We already know from the school system that such tests are not consistently good predictors of success.

You have Marino & Favre sitting with 16 & 22 point scores as well as first class tickets to the hall of fame while wonderlic whiz kid Brian Griese is on his 3rd team in 4 years....

As for Ryan, I can say something nice about him as a counterpoint. He has good poise, he is mature, he's got a knack for leadership, and he has all the makings of a very hard worker rather than a guy like say, Ryan Leaf, who is lazy and indifferent. Those are all very desirable qualities in a player.

Players of the ilk have succeeded before in the NFL, including at the QB position. Nobody would say Jeff Garcia for instance, has a good arm or good size or but he's earned several trips to the pro bowl and continues to perform at a high level.

by Natalya on Mar 24, 2008 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I Think Where People Go Wrong With the Wonderlic..

...and any other "measurable", is that some people use it as a "aha, look he's smart so he's a better football player" type measurable. It is just another piece of the puzzle. All things being equal, you'd want the "smarter" player. Then again, there is no way that I have seen, besides just play on the field, to strictly test any players' football IQ. There are going to be players with high IQ's that can't make the physical plays that a player of a lesser IQ, but superior physical skills, can make. Again, its all just a piece of the puzzle.

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quite Frankly...

I don't even see it (the wonderlic) as any piece of the puzzle.

All football players, from pop warner kids to high school to pro's, have to memorize & execute playbooks of increasing difficulty. Anyone who succeeds at the college level doing that has more than enough ability to decipher a playbook at the pro level.

Here are some sample questions from the wonderlic:

Question 2
LOW is to HIGH as EASY is to____?
J) SUCCESSFUL K) PURE L) TALL M) INTERESTING N) DIFFICULT
Question 3
One word below appears in bold. What is the OPPOSITE of that word?
She gave a complex answer to the question and we all agreed with her.

A) long B) better C) simple D) wrong E) kind

Now let's ask ourselves, how a player knowing what the opposite of *complex, is going to help them complete a 15 yard come back route?

by Natalya on Mar 24, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Part of the Wonderlic Testing...

...is that the test is timed. There is a difference between processing information, even simple equations, and being asked to process that info quickly. That is where the insight comes from.

Its quite obvious that to be a great football player does not require a player to be a Rhodes Scholar. However, if a player is having a problem with the Wonderlic test, would you want to know why? Would you want to know how that would translate itself to being able to play his position in the NFL? Or would you just discount the Wonderlic test altogether and not realize until later on that a player has a learning disability, or trouble processing a certain type of information.

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Classroom and paper test

prowess do not correlate with football success. If it did then teams would be jockeying to draft me and some other participants of this blog rather than say, Darren McFadden, etc.

Who cares if it takes a kid ten seconds versus twenty seconds to figure out that 44 is the next number in the sequence 11:22:33:...? Football is a far more instinctive activity than it is cerebral. Nor would a lower score indicate a learning disability. Ask yourself, what use, what value does it serve on the field to have a better grasp of American English antonyms than your opponent? About the only thing it proves is, well, you know antonyms better which isn't much help if your opponent runs a 4.3 while you can do a 4.7.

Dan Marino scored below average. Baby Griese conversely has one of the highest scores ever.

Not exactly what I call a predictor of success.

by Natalya on Mar 24, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who Is Claiming It Is a Predictor of Success?

Its no different than using the 40 yd time as a predictor of success for a WR. Its no different than using wingspan as a predictor of success for a T. Anyone who has watched football for any amount of time knows that. Its all part of the evaluation process for guys that they are spending millions of dollars on.

Hey, its no different if you have a 6-0 QB. Prevailing thought is that is too short for an NFL QB. So what happens? It throws up a red flag. Team investigates the player further and decides, for themselves, if he can play the position in the NFL. Team sees a QB who got a 16 on the Wonderlic, it throws up a red flag, they decide whether he is the QB for them.

If Marino's Wonderlic score scared off teams, shame on them. His body of work in college proved he was a good QB. Any GM that dismisses/picks ANY player strictly on basis of their Wonderlic score needs to take the test themselves...and then be fired. :)

We're saying the same thing as far as being a predictor of success in the NFL. Where we disagree is whether the test plays has any role in evaluating players. I think it does.

by dab415217 on Mar 24, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dab...

Isn't the role of evaluating players in the first place an attempt to gauge/predict as much as possible, each player's success in the NFL?

Your 40 time or 20 yard shuttle is going to play a sizable factor in the success/failure of a player's role in quite a few situations, depending on their position. A player's arm strength is going to play a role in their success/failure at completing a 60 yard pass.

How a player's knowledge of antonyms or prime numbers or fractions is going to help them succeed on the field, in the NFL, is something I've yet to see. No amount of knowledge of long division is going to help you or me or Cameron Worrell, outjump Randy Moss. Nor will it help Brian Griese be a successful NFL starting QB despite his more than double the score on the wonderlic as Dan Marino.

So if it is not a predictor of success, and you say you agree that it is not, then what purpose does it serve? Let's suppose you are a scout or GM or whatever, seriously, what would you use the wonderlic for in your decision making process? You say it has a role, I'm just trying to understand what that is exactly?

by Natalya on Mar 24, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Based on

what Ive read, seen and heard I think Matt Ryan will be a serviceable, maybe above average, maybe even elite QB in this league and maybe we will all eat crow for not selecting him with the #1 over all pick. But with all of the QBs that have crashed and burned in the top five (along with having an unproven QB with all the intangables in John Beck), I myself would rather take the safe bet in Chris Long, Jake Long maybe even Darren Mcfadden. I think Miami needs to let it leak out that they are selecting Matt Ryan, then trade #1s with Atlanta (if they go for it) for what ever we can reasonably get (even if its an only extra 3rd rounder) then take whoever is available (chris / Jake Long, Mcfadden) @ #3 or maybe even work out a deal with dallas from that point for Mcfadden. My Point is if they plan this right and with a little help from the gods they could kick ass in this draft and get alot more picks and good players with reasonable contracts.

OFF Topic: Where do you think john Beck would fall in this draft with this group of QBs?

by Finskikass on Mar 24, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OT

Right behind B. Brohm and ahead of everyone else. To me Brohm is the best of class in this draft. Ryan and Henne fight it out for third and fourth (in the late 2nd early 3rd).

by gafinfan on Mar 24, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs