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Dolphins reward Camarillo with contract extension

We heard last week that the Dolphins were in talks with one of their many impending free agents - Greg Camarillo.

Tonight we know for sure that Camarillo will be in Miami through 2011.  The Dolphins signed Camarillo to a 3 year, $6 million contract extension today.

Camarillo was last year's hero, catching a pass and taking it the distance for the game-winning touchdown in overtime against Baltimore - Miami's only win of 2007.  This season, Camarillo has taken his game to the next level and leads the team in receptions (49) and receiving yards (538).

Earlier this season, the Dolphins locked up Patrick Cobbs wit ha 2 year extension.  So why have these two gotten their deals done while other big potential free agents - such as Vernon Carey, Yeremiah Bell, Channing Crowder, and Andre Goodman - still have no new deals?  Here's what Tony Sparano says about Camarillo and Cobbs:

"The two most consistent players since the day I walked through the door have been Greg Camarillo and Patrick Cobbs."

Congrats, Greg.  It's a contract that has been well deserved.

Hat tip to jwillis9 for his FanPost.

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That's a strong sentiment

from Sparano.. to say that Cobbs and Camarillo are the two most important upcoming FA’s. I think that’s a message to the other FA’s (Crowder, Carey, etc) that the names and the stats are not what matters, but rather quiet execution of everything asked of you. The motivational ploys from Sparano could be part of the reason Crowder is having a great season..

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 19, 2008 10:32 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you know, i said this before about Welker

when we were in the depth of our team doldrums, the one thing that I wanted from the players was consistency, and Welker was the most consistent player at the time. Chambers, on the other hand, was Mr. Inconsistent and you can’t build your team around that.
Kudos to Sparano for placing value on these kinds of guys.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Nov 19, 2008 10:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know about anybody else

But Sparano is going to a be a GREAT coach. I haven’t seen one move, decision, or anything to tell me differently. He’s got these guys playing harder than just about any other team in the league, and it’s a direct reflection on him. Parcells +10000 on that coaching hire pal

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 19, 2008 10:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nicky, there was one....

But I can’t really fault him or any of them.

I guess when you make 1 $6million dollar reception, you can be considered a misstep.

Love what Sparano does. Just wish he got more of the credit instead of everyone saying it’s Parcells all the time.

by Mosul_DolFan on Nov 19, 2008 11:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

The good thing is Parcells has largely stayed behind the scenes and allowed Sparano to coach, and Ireland to do his GMing.

And I don’t think the Wilford move was Sparano’s.. I will give him credit (and the management as well) for the decision not to play him just because of his contract. They decided he stunk, and sat him down, money be damned. That’s how you correct a mistake.

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 19, 2008 11:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glad too see this

  Shows the rest of the team, that through hard work comes great rewards. These guys will be fun to watch the next few years. Plus, it builds value, these guys aren’t going to stay where they are at……..they’re going to get even better

"You found that word today......and that word is Character"- Coach Sparano 11/9/08

by HuskerDolphin on Nov 19, 2008 10:45 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the "savior"

deserves this. congrats to camarillo

by badjah on Nov 19, 2008 10:49 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

MESSAGE TO CAMARILLO:

JUST BECAUSE YOU GOT PAID….YOU ARE STILL A NOBODY INTILL THE DOLPHINS WIN A SUPER BOWL

Blogs Banned From – 14
Warnings – 15
Comments – 144243522366876
Relevant Comments – 8
Frontpaged Fanposts – 1 (Yes...I got it)
Temper Tantrums – 8
Stalker Charges – 120
woohoo's – 87
lol's – 173
SLAP’s – 54
Well Said's– 1

"Everytime i walk by someone @ work and have to juke out of the way
i give a "wooop" and run where ever i’m heading and spike whatever i’m holding"
-C.L

by finsxfactor on Nov 19, 2008 10:54 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ANYONE ELSE HEAR WE SIGNED DL JOE COHEN (49ers) to our practice squad?

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 19, 2008 10:59 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup

because Ninkovich got promoted to the active roster, presumably to audition for the coverage teams..

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 19, 2008 11:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Congrats to Camarillo

Well deserved. He really is what Welker would have been for us. It’s great to have him locked up now, and not have to face the RFA situation again.

Now, let’s hope they start working on some more guys’ extensions.

by Mosul_DolFan on Nov 19, 2008 11:18 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

congrats Greg

That just goes to show you that hard work pays off.

"How can I blame you
When it's me I can't forgive?"

-From the Unforgiven III off of Death Magnetic

by Patssuck456 on Nov 19, 2008 11:21 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2 MILL A YEAR

peanuts for a reliable player

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 19, 2008 11:33 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really hard question

would you trade Wilford for 3 more Camarillos?

imagine if we had 4 Camarillos….just criss crossing the field. lol

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 19, 2008 11:34 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'ld trade him for.......

2 good special teamers, hell I’ld trade him steve tasker right now…..

"Wildcat...........BITCHES!!!!!"
-Some Dude in a Car

GRIFFIN

by Ohiofinfan4life on Nov 19, 2008 11:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll trade him

for another blocking sled… Or a really fast waterboy..

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 19, 2008 11:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

Blogs Banned From – 14
Warnings – 15
Comments – 144243522366876
Relevant Comments – 8
Frontpaged Fanposts – 1 (Yes...I got it)
Temper Tantrums – 8
Stalker Charges – 120
woohoo's – 87
lol's – 173
SLAP’s – 54
Well Said's– 1

"Everytime i walk by someone @ work and have to juke out of the way
i give a "wooop" and run where ever i’m heading and spike whatever i’m holding"
-C.L

by finsxfactor on Nov 19, 2008 11:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ur lol takes up half a page! lol

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 9:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

Blogs Banned From – 14; Warnings – 15; Comments – 144243522366876
Relevant Comments – 8; Frontpaged Fanposts – 1 (Yes...I got it)
Temper Tantrums – 8; Stalker Charges – 120; woohoo's – 87; lol's – 173
SLAP’s – 54; Well Said's– 1
"Everytime i walk by someone @ work and have to juke out of the way
i give a "wooop" and run where ever i’m heading and spike whatever i’m holding"
-C.L

by finsxfactor on Nov 20, 2008 5:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice job

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 7:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

OR A....

Toothless cheerleader that is 20 lbs overweight, but easy………

"Wildcat...........BITCHES!!!!!"
-Some Dude in a Car

GRIFFIN

by Ohiofinfan4life on Nov 19, 2008 11:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ew ewe ewe w eewe ew eeerwere qqf f ftsf

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 9:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

gross

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 20, 2008 11:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I love it......

Greg seems like a blue collar type of guy. Not flashy, works hard, and doesn’t run his mouth…..just plays the game. And from where i’m standing, plays it well!! Not that I don’t like the trash talking super-hyped Porter types , I do. Shit, you should hear some crap I unload on opposing fans. Hell, I’ve earned it after years of abuse up North. But, there is alot to be said for the sielet hard workers on the team, for they are the true backbone of this turnaround.

CONGRATS GREG……YOU EARNED IT!!

"Wildcat...........BITCHES!!!!!"
-Some Dude in a Car

GRIFFIN

by Ohiofinfan4life on Nov 19, 2008 11:36 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really like Camarillo

I think that the guy just has that special it factor that will enable him to do great things with the Dolphins. I think “the catch” last year was only the beginning. This guy will be a Dolphin’s legend at some point.

"If anything goes bad, I did it. If anything goes semi-good, we did it. If anything goes really good you did it. That's all it takes to get people to win football games for you."

Coach Paul Bear Bryant

by AussieKen on Nov 20, 2008 12:13 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yikes

that is some big change for a average NFL receiver, yeah he hangs onto the ball, but he’s not a great blocker nor is he great at fighting through coverage….

don’t take this to mean i don’t want the guy, it’s just i’m not sure how that $number fits into the salary structure and what players will they lose cause too much $ is tied up in cammy… seriously TJ Housh#$%^VJZKSTzadadada is a free agent this year and wouldn’t the money be better served there or on a bouldin?

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 20, 2008 1:50 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

dude. i know you picture yourself as a "realist"

but you just captured the mr. negative title from neo.

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Nov 20, 2008 1:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

really

too much money tied up in Camarillo? The guy has been our most reliable receiver this season. 2mil a year is fine.

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 20, 2008 11:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

interest question in realism

ok – of the afc teams with winning records which ones would he start on

Nope
NE, Pitts, indy,

not likely
Denver, NY jets

maybe (but run blocking is a priority so i wouldn’t think so)
Tenn

Likely
Baltimore

So they are throwing long term money at a position which they need to get better at inorder to move up the food chain.
doesn’t sound like a realistic approach to me.
all that said i wouldn’t have a problem with the guy and he’s likely one of those binder guys who makes a team.

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 20, 2008 6:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You forgot to say GOOOOOOOOOOOOO JETS!!

you have love issues man. let the Phins in

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 7:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, that looks good on paper

but i think you are leaving out an important aspect of this question. Of course he wouldn’t start on NE. They have Welker. But would he start if they didn’t have Welker. Likely.
And Camarillo has similar numbers than Harrison, and he’s starting.
I think the important point you overlooked is that Miami is an AFC team with a winning record, and he IS starting.
:’)

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Nov 20, 2008 8:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yes and no

sure they have a winning record, but they are hardly and elite team… of their 6 wins they’ve beaten 4 teams missing their best player and 3 of those players are most likely one of the top 2 at their positions. (champ, brady, & merriman) plus they’ve played the weakest schedule in the NFL so far IIRC. and other than NE just about every win has been a nail biter…

would he start if they didn’t have Welker. Likely.

Maybe he would, however the gap between wes and cammy is a heck of a lot larger than the gap between cammy and gaftney (sp?) cammy likely has better hands but jabar is a better run blocker and gets off the block better…

So it’s hard to say that the phins can take a step up to the next level without upgrading their WR’s (or having one or more of them develop into a great one… fingers crossed mr london)

so i’d much rather they take the 1mil a year they over paid for cammy and the 2+ they are paying that inactive guy and throw that down on a TJ houslamza, hishmama, houstonliftmyzada (even if i can’t spell it) or one of the other promised upcomming FA.

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 21, 2008 12:19 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doh

i forgot to mention harrison missed 3 or so games at the start of the year…
(foot injury i think?) that said harrison is in the twilight of his career and he could be finished
(or in jail) at any time… but i’d take gonzales over cammy (who is better right now) just for great upside.

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 21, 2008 12:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good post doinkerboink

Blogs Banned From – 14
Warnings – 15
Comments – 144243522366876
Relevant Comments – 8
Frontpaged Fanposts – 1 (Yes...I got it)
Temper Tantrums – 8
Stalker Charges – 120
woohoo's – 87
lol's – 173
SLAP’s – 54
Well Said's– 1

"Everytime i walk by someone @ work and have to juke out of the way
i give a "wooop" and run where ever i’m heading and spike whatever i’m holding"
-C.L

by finsxfactor on Nov 21, 2008 12:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who wouldn't you take over Camarillo?

seriously, we’re light years ahead of where we should be this season, and all you can do is skewer good players and good coaching moves.. never seen somebody so negative alll the time.. realist or not.. it’s annoying

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 21, 2008 1:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

wow

you really need to read my posts. at what point did i say i wouldn’t take him…

in fact if you actually read my post you might have seen this little bit

he’s likely one of those binder guys who makes a team.

pretty strong point on his side don’t you think… type of player that makes a team???

now if you want to believe the guy is an elite WR and the team has solved the wr issus then you are pretty much living in denial. the teams that are the elite teams in the afc all have a receiver corps that he likely wouldn’t start on and that’s a pretty good indicator that the fins will need a upgrade at that position. and as long as there is a salary cap, a team has to mette out their money very carefully…

so once again for the slow folk. I am happy the team resigned him. i like the guy, and i like how he plays, i just don’t see him as a starter on an elite football team, and if you are going to have to upgrade at that position don’t over spend…

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 21, 2008 1:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I read just fine

you ripped off 3 or 4 names of wideouts that you would take over Camarillo, hence the heading of my post “who wouldn’t you take over Camarilo?”

and I’m the one with the reading problem?

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 21, 2008 1:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hmmm...

you wrote…

and all you can do is skewer good players and good coaching moves.. never seen somebody so negative alll the time.. realist or not.. it’s annoying

at what point did i skewer him? now i may have offended your myopic world by suggesting that the guy isn’t an elite WR…

so instead of claiming i’m negative, tell enlighten me… i put up my list of teams with winning records in the AFC, which teams of those teams would he beat out the starters on? The guy is an average NFL receiver, which btw is someone of great skill and ability, but if a team is going to be great they need to have great players at the skill positions…

but if it’ll help you sleep better. cammy has my probowl vote.

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 21, 2008 1:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yup

myopic world, that’s where I live. Nobody said he was elite, but go ahead and continue to put that in my mouth.

4 of the 5 teams you put in your “Nope” and “not likely” category are pass-happy teams (NE, Jets, Indy, Denver). They built their teams with WR much higher on the priority list than we have it. Not sure what more you want out of a WR. He gets open, he catches the ball, he gets upfield. We’re not asking him to juke 6 people and truck a safety before housing it. Just be consistent. I don’t care where else he would or wouldn’t start, it’s not an issue, because he’s starting – and performing – here.

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 21, 2008 1:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i agree

i hated him more than most…or doubted him anyway…but he really is a poor man’s welker..and thats worth 2 mill a yr…thats nothng in this league for a starting wr.

anyone else see the article in todays sun where they compare welker and camarillo?

both off chargers practice squad…

both #83

camarillo looked at welkers house and saw a #83 hanging…said thats why he is 83…seemed like a sign.

good particle..ill see if i can find it online

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 21, 2008 12:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

here it is

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-flspdolphins21sbnov21,0,5188092.story

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 21, 2008 12:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

amazing turn around

I seem to remember writing several posts comparing him to welker much earlier this year, and you telling me i was nutz.

;)

-LCFF

by LeftCoastFinFan on Nov 21, 2008 12:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cant...negative neo sounds catchy...and he's quite negative

but you can cal w ny fins fan

a doinkerboink

Blogs Banned From – 14
Warnings – 15
Comments – 144243522366876
Relevant Comments – 8
Frontpaged Fanposts – 1 (Yes...I got it)
Temper Tantrums – 8
Stalker Charges – 120
woohoo's – 87
lol's – 173
SLAP’s – 54
Well Said's– 1

"Everytime i walk by someone @ work and have to juke out of the way
i give a "wooop" and run where ever i’m heading and spike whatever i’m holding"
-C.L

by finsxfactor on Nov 20, 2008 6:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doinkerboink?

wasnt that a video game ?

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 7:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol...idk i just like the sound of it

Blogs Banned From – 14
Warnings – 15
Comments – 144243522366876
Relevant Comments – 8
Frontpaged Fanposts – 1 (Yes...I got it)
Temper Tantrums – 8
Stalker Charges – 120
woohoo's – 87
lol's – 173
SLAP’s – 54
Well Said's– 1

"Everytime i walk by someone @ work and have to juke out of the way
i give a "wooop" and run where ever i’m heading and spike whatever i’m holding"
-C.L

by finsxfactor on Nov 20, 2008 8:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He deserves 6 mill

for that catch against the Ravens last year if nothing else.

Are you picking up what I'm putting down?

by Neo on Nov 20, 2008 3:52 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why only 6 mil?

aren’t you just mr negative.

;~)

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 21, 2008 12:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Right on Greg!!!!

Still looking for a Camarillo jersey
Anyone see any out there in FL????

The catch last year, one of the greatest moments in Dolphin history

"If my first child is a boy his name will now be "Chad". In the event my first child is a girl her name will be "Pennington".-Rzayo 24

by rangerjae on Nov 20, 2008 6:39 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hey does this mean...

that I got frontpaged?? probably not guess I just dont do anything at work :) watch out Rzayo24 and Nicky, Im coming to take all your Glory… or not

by jwillis9 on Nov 20, 2008 7:02 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

hat tip;....its like a front page in training..congrats

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 9:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 20, 2008 11:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

thanks for reading : (

"This is one of the most competitive businesses there is . . . It's my life. It's my blood. It's how I'm measured."
---BILL PARCELLS

by Rzayo24 on Nov 20, 2008 10:52 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you know

You know Im joking its the greatest thing I have ever read (besides the Gameballs) :)

by jwillis9 on Nov 20, 2008 11:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sweet

I love being in parenthesis

"I throw better than anybody in college and I can throw with anybody in the pros. There, that's what I think."
"I've been a Dolphin for 17 years, and I'll be a Dolphin for the rest of my life. That will never change."
- Dan Marino aka Quarterback God

by Little Nicky 21 on Nov 20, 2008 7:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Other potential big free agents

Vernon Carey is a big free agent all right, a big bust. I predict he will land with some underachieving team next year like the Raiders of 49ers. Sparano is an O line coach, and Carey is evidently uncoachable.

by Sparcells on Nov 20, 2008 10:17 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

why do you say this
Carey is evidently uncoachable

can’t say i’ve ever heard this. what is your source on this?

i’ve sort of been guessing that he has a tweaked back or leg issues, or even the revolving
rg issue…

but everyone has agreed that he hasn’t been up to his usual standard, but no one has every given a reason.

by W NY Fins Fan on Nov 21, 2008 12:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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