Why move Vernon Carey

by gafinfan on Jan 9, 2008 1:05 AM EST

After reading this thru and seeing just how well Carey did in 07 as our LT why on earth would anyone want to move him again.

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol.php

4th best to run behind (5.05 YPC) and only 3 sacks allowed all year. He should have been the one going to the Pro Bowl not JT. The only thing I'd like to see him do is cut down on the 7 false starts but I bet he will next year. We should pay the man a boat load of Wayne's money and sign him up for the next 7 years. Oh, and PLEASE Bill, don't do something stupid and move him back again (to the right side) it will just mess with his head plus you won't find anyone better. (Insert CB LT or Long or whoever you wish)

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I think

RT is his natural position (not sure though). And I remember reading that he said he was much more comfortable on the right side. I wish I could remember where, sorry -(.

by Neo on Jan 9, 2008 1:10 AM EST reply actions

Ok

Some do say that about Carey, I don't know why (maybe because Tony Wise, our o-line coach at the time, who didn't like Vernon said that). Spielman drafted him for the left side and Wise (an AH in my mind) did his best to mess with Vernon. Why, I don't know. After Saban hired HH he wanted HH to keep him on the right side, which shows just how little Saban knows about o-lines. Cam comes in and with HH sees that V.C. can be a great LT so they put him back there and we have a great year running behind Carey. ( NO we didn't have a great year but Vernon did). What is so great, to me is that even after we went down hill, as far as RB's are concerned V.C. kept his YPC up, when Ronnie ran behind V.C. it was over 6 YPC and that is PB playing for Vernon as well as Ronnie Brown.

With all the mess Spielman left he did do one thing right, draft the right LT.

by gafinfan on Jan 9, 2008 1:30 AM EST up reply actions

He said he was more comfortable there

early on in training camp when they moved him back to LT this year after finally putting together a solid year at RT.

I would be curious to hear him talk about it now, and see if he still feels the same way after playing well at LT all year.

I tend to agree with GaFF... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. IMO, I think Carey played pretty well at LT; an improvement there would be incremental. The line would get the biggest improvement from #1) a top notch LG, #2) a better blocking TE, #3) you could probably upgrade RT.

by LeftCoastFinFan on Jan 9, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions

It maybe an incremental improvement

but O-Line play is measured as a whole, not position by position. Draft a LT (Long), move Carey back to the right and the entire O-Line is much improved. Know what I'm saying??

by MarkDuper85 on Jan 9, 2008 11:26 AM EST reply actions

Maybe so

but you also need away to grade out each player to grade their preformance within the group. And if you take into account the league average of 4.65 YPC only Carey was above that for the year. Samson Satele was the only other o-line to grade above the average for any time during the year and he's a rookie. The rest of the o-line was, to say the least, not very good esp. when you consider a rookie showed them up. Also if you compare Vernon's grade against the LT's going to the pro bowl he comes out better than 2 of them.

I'm not so much against moving Carey back if for the right reasons but to draft Jake Long as our LT at the #1 spot and pay him 60+ million, and he hasn't done a thing in the NFL, you sure better be right. Because the other thing to consider is Carey because he did so good every other club knows it and Great LT's are hard to come by. Carey knows this too and he's only got 1 year left on his contract. So what are you going to do? Pay both of them LT money, no way, it just won't happen.

That's why I say leave Carey alone and build the rest of the o-line with Carey at LT and Satele at center. In my mind it's the smart money thing to do.

by gafinfan on Jan 9, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions

granted

it's not my money, but the guarenteed money last year at picks 1&2 was in the low 40 mil. So even with inflation, the fins wouldn't be on the hook for more then 45 mil on a 5 year deal, before you factor in positional discounts?

Plus, i'm not sure carey numbers grade out that well when you consider they only ran behind him %10 with %60 up the middle. That pretty much tells you the coaching staff felt the run strength of the line was behind C & RG.

I'd also like to see something on the number of QB pressures given up, especially with/without TE help. I really think the speed guys just eat him alive.

by W NY Fins Fan on Jan 9, 2008 11:16 PM EST up reply actions

What is...

this "TE help" you speak of?

by urbino on Jan 9, 2008 11:22 PM EST up reply actions

it's a small obstacle that

DE are required to cheer Ole to, as they pass by them on the way to a QB. Kind of like a speed bump but less of an impediment.

by W NY Fins Fan on Jan 9, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions

The good news...

Is that Carey has proven willing and able to play either flank position.

I am not sure BP and family are looking at incremental improvements at this stage.

Peace

by OntheGo on Jan 9, 2008 2:45 PM EST reply actions

Sorry...

conference call typing sucks...

I meant to say...NOT looking at incremental improvements.

by OntheGo on Jan 9, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions

Some men look at this offensive line...

and say, "Why move Vernon Carey?" I look at this offensive line and say, "Why not move Vernon Carey?"

by urbino on Jan 9, 2008 10:30 PM EST reply actions

To me that is

the problem, any DL with a will, can move these guys any place they want them. Just look at beck playing in the 2nd bills game. Ok maybe beck getting hit before he takes his third step on a three step drop happens, but to get sacked by both DE before it happens is hmmm. not good.

by W NY Fins Fan on Jan 9, 2008 11:38 PM EST up reply actions

That's why

HH said he didn't have much to work with, and I agree. The o-line as a whole is talent-less. Given that only 6 of the 10 are now under contract I would bet that we will only see two or maybe three be back next year. Another reason to hire T. Sparano. I would hope we get a couple of vets and 1/2 more good rookies to build with.`

* the run behind Carey was 16% not 5% and early on Brown ran more behind him. Anyway; it's ParLand's call to make I just hope we don't waste another pick whatever we do.

by gafinfan on Jan 10, 2008 6:12 PM EST up reply actions

As far as paying

a draft pick $60 million although he's unproven in the NFL goes:
Do you suggest we draft somebody we know won't be good so we don't have to pay him?
It's ridiculous to pay someone that type of money but that's how the draft works. Untested, unproven rookies will make a ton more than a veteran, battle tested, hard working FA.

by MarkDuper85 on Jan 11, 2008 10:07 AM EST reply actions

although I don't agree

the theory goes....

drafting high on unproven rookies ruins a teams salary cap by putting such a large % in a player that might fail. So you trade out of your high picks to mid/late first round where the talent pool is riskier but the cap hit isn't as large.
Then you take that 'saved' money and buy proven free agent and resign your quality players.

The reality is missing with the draft is expensive no matter where you pick. you take cap hit with early picks and then you need free agents for the positions the late picks fail at.

the best way to succeed is to hit with your picks.

by W NY Fins Fan on Jan 12, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions