The Aftermath...
by Matty I on Dec 11, 2007 12:07 AM EST
in 2012 Miami Dolphins News
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PrintWe've talked a lot about the head coach situation of this franchise, but that isn't the only issue that needs to be resolved. So let's talk a little quarterbacking, shall we?
RISK IS NOW REALITY
In the Palm Beach Post, Greg Stoda writes a good article talking about the John Beck "experiment," as he calls it. He points out that the risk that the Dolphins inherited by starting Beck has now come to fruition. You'll remember we talked a lot about the high risk/high reward situation that the Dolphins would be going through by starting Beck. You'll remember one of the things I worried about when the original idea of starting Beck was talked about was how he'd react if he struggled. Would he lose confidence? Would this hurt his progression? Stoda ponders the same thing now:
The Dolphins had no business making John Beck their starting quarterback in the first place - he was working with a deck stacked against him - but they did so, anyway.
Now, an 0-9 record has dissolved into the abject misery of an 0-13 mark.
The latest installment came Sunday afternoon in Ralph Wilson Stadium when Buffalo handed the Dolphins a 38-17 defeat and ran Beck out of his position.
How deeply has the rookie quarterback been damaged?
Have the Dolphins ruined Beck by testing him in too many circumstances predictable for their potential for failure?
"He's learned a lot," said Dolphins head coach Cam Cameron, who is a rookie himself in the job of NFL boss. "He'll continue to grow. It's awfully early to put any final evaluation on him."
Cameron nevertheless made a decision to switch to Cleo Lemon - the quarterback Beck had replaced - late in the first quarter against the Bills with the Dolphins already trailing by a 21-0 count. Lemon promptly produced a touchdown in two plays with the set-up being a 54-yard completion to Ted Ginn Jr.
So, has Beck lost the starter's job?
"We'll let you know," Cameron said.
Beck, a 26-year-old out of Brigham Young and a second-round draft pick, hasn't been very good. He has led Miami to exactly zero touchdowns. That doesn't, or shouldn't, mean the Dolphins have decided they know all they need to know about Beck, but first impressions are difficult to erase no matter the environment in which they're made.
Soon enough, in fact, the whispers will become shouts that the Dolphins should use a high pick in the next draft - perhaps even the No. 1 should they get it and keep it - for another quarterback.
How's that for a delicious mess given Miami's many screaming needs?
First off, before we get into anything, Cam said today that he'll let us know on Wednesday what the QB situation will be for Sunday's game.
Moving on, isn't it interesting that Cam and his coaching staff seemed to have known better than the fans that it probably wasn't a good idea to start Beck? It seems to me that us fans, again, were wrong. But it's hard to trust a coaching staff that has been as inept as this one has seemed to be this year. But like Stoda said, Beck didn't have any business being the starter this year. After all, the original plan seemed to have been for John to sit out the whole year and learn. But thanks to the increasing pressure by the fans and, quite possibly, from ownership (but we'll never know that for sure), Cam felt like he had to throw Beck into the fire. And now look at where we sit?
Sure, one could argue that John should have been the #2 quarterback all along so that he wasn't stuck running the scout team in practice every day since training camp. That certainly would have improved Beck's grasp of the offense and his comfort level in this offense. But Cam didn't do that. He planned on John learning from Trent Green while Trent played every week. But all it took was one thrown block by Trent to ruin those plans. Even so, however, it probably would have been a better idea for Cleo Lemon to have played out the entire year with John working as the #2 quarterback in practice. But then again, hindsight is 20/20. I just wonder if that is what Cam would have done if we all didn't apply tons of pressure for John to play this season.
And that brings us to where we are right now. Like Stoda says in the article, there's the potential that people may begin shouting for the Dolphins to spend their #1 overall pick on a quarterback. After all, there seem to be 3 potential franchise QBs in this draft. And we've already seen that on this site, with at least one commenter saying that the Dolphins should draft a QB. But I don't think that's a good idea and here's why. You can't give up on John this quickly, first of all. It isn't fair to judge him when he's been surrounded by imferior talent and has played behind an offensive line that has seemingly regressed from where they were earlier this year. But more importantly, there are always 1 or 2 potential franchise QBs in the draft each year. And if Beck, or whoever our QB happens ot be next year, struggles badly, then odds are that we'll have a top 5 or 10 pick yet again in 2009 and then we can consdier taking a QB. It doesn't make sense to draft one this year when a) we have a guy like Beck who could still turn out to be the QB this franchise needs; and b) we have so many other needs that need our attention.
So that's where I stand on this subject right now.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Omar Kelly, in a blog post, asks an interesting question:
History is waiting.
So what would you do if you were Cameron?
Would you stick with Beck, hoping that he'll eventually work his way past these struggles and nerves and become the franchise quarterback the Dolphins drafted him to be?
Or would you shelve Beck and play Lemon, hoping that the veteran's experience edge and mobility not only help the offense score points, but also silence the veterans' concerns that management isn't doing everything needed to get a win?
That's an interesting question and something that we can really discuss until Cam finally announces what he is doing. After all, it doesn't matter what we would do when he is still the head coach...for now.
So what would I do? That's easy. I would start Beck and play him the full game in each of the 3 remaining games. Why? Here's my reasoning:
- We already know what Cleo Lemon's ceiling is. He's a career backup at best. We still don't know what Beck's ceiling is. We don't know how good he might become. But this I do know: he's more accurate than Cleo and has an arm that's just as strong as Cleo and throws with just as much zip. So if he can just grasp the mental nuances of the game at the pro level, then his potential is far, far, far greater than Cleo's. Far, far, far, etc...
- John seems like he is mentally tough enough to go through these struggles and come out with his confidence in tact. He doesn't strike me as a David Carr, Joey Harrington, or Patrick Ramsey, where their struggles and the physical beating they took as young QBs really cracked their psyche and destroyed their confidence.
- I've already accepted the fact that this team is likely to go 0-16 and I don't think that having Cleo start these 3 games will change that. Sure, Lemon does give the Dolphins the best chance to win. But what good will a win do? Would I like to not go 0-16? Of course. But I'd rather look to the future. And the best way to do that is by letting John start and allow him to learn from his mistakes and grow as a player.
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Cameron was stupid
Gettin back to Buffalo, why pull him? The game was already out of hand. Cameron threw away valuable experince for Beck. With the game out of hand, he would've saw what Lemon saw (which made him look good..again) defenses with soft coverages, not to mention less blitzing. He might had been able to lead them on a couple of scores and built his confidence.
What did Lemon do besides really underthrowing what should've been a TD pass, throw 2 ints, and fumble the ball around 4 times(loosing 1). Kinda makes you think back to London huh? We'll see how much of a idiot Cameron really is this week. Will he throw away the rest of this season to try to get a win with a bumbling, loud mouth, QB. Or will he do Wayne a favor (since he paid him 2 million to try to learn how to be a HC and possibly not win a game) and see what the next HC (yes I typed next) wants to do with the #1 pick.
Of course Cam was stupid
Had we had a real coach, Beck would have been in the game to start the second half. For exactly the reasons you list... baluable experince against a team playing soft coverages in a blow out.
btw: is it me or does Cleo remind anyone else of the stereotypical guy... the one who everyone in the office always gathers around, he gets along with everyone because he is always mocking people behind there backs. There is always office turmoil and this guy thrives.
Then he leaves. everyone is sad to see him go, but then about a month later everyone realizes there is far less bickering going on, no real backstabbing, and a heck of a lot more harmony at the work place.
every time I read cleo's quotes this is what I think of....
by W NY Fins Fan on Dec 11, 2007 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Why pull Beck
hmm
then why not
by W NY Fins Fan on Dec 13, 2007 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Matty not Beck's fault
The play calling for Beck has been horrible. I don't have time right now to look it up, but they've run on first down, without a healthy back mind you, something like 60-75% of the time for Beck?? (didn't I see you break down the play calling? someplace??) And the run game has been horrible lately. So Beck has been passing out of 2nd & 3rd and long all four games against blitzing teams. Then to top that off, do they ever roll him out, nope they leave him right in the middle for the blitzers to find. What kind of coaching is that? Any QB will get slaughtered. The kid was set up for disaster from day one, even before we get into the failure of Cam to prep him for game action.
So mystery Cam has returned for another week, yeehaa!!! Everyone knows Cam is going to start Cleo since he now knows his job is on the line, why wait until wednesday (I know he wants to look over the buffalo film and see all the 'good things' he did - like fall on 3 of his 4 fumbles)
btw: mighty generous calling cleo a backup QB at best. IMHO he's nothing better then a 3rd stringer and most likely just an overhyped arena league player.
Huh?
Myself, I think your closing section is right and Stoda is spectacularly wrong. John Beck should've been the #2 QB from the get-go, and taken over the starting spot immediately upon Green's injury. As you say, we know what Cleo gives us, and it ain't much. What we need to know is what Beck gives us.
Moreover, Beck's performance thus far should not be evaluated based on touchdowns, yards, completions, etc. What we all should be evaluating him on is the raw, fundamental skills of an NFL QB, not production. Anybody who thought Beck was going to come in and make this offense productive was living in a fantasyland, and their opinion of Beck's potential should be accordingly ignored.
The fact is, we still don't know what Beck can do. Partly that's a function of time -- he just hasn't played enough yet -- but partly it's a product of the horrible recent O-line/TE play, the revolving door at RB (none of whom have blocked very well, either), the completely predictable play-calling, and crappy game conditions.
The only way we can solve the problem of not knowing what Beck can do is to play him. And that's exactly what should happen.
Clarify
The 2nd part of my post (the 'what would you do' part) is referring to what I'd do right now in this particular situation.
I see.
If there was/is pressure from the veterans to play somebody else just to get a win or two this season, then the veterans need to grow up and act like veterans. If players are intentionally underperforming because their feelings are hurt that their favorite QB isn't playing, then those players need to be benched, traded, cut, or otherwise dumped on the rubbish heap as the dead wood that they are. (And let's face it: they're obviously not good enough even when they are trying that their loss would hurt all that much.)
I'm not saying John Beck is the next great Miami QB and everybody on the team should be forced to agree. I'm saying John Beck is the QB we drafted to be our future, the Dolphins as a franchise need to find out whether he's up to the job, and everybody on the team should be professional enough to do their damn jobs.
Meanwhile...
I know this will turn into more 'blame coaching' blather-fest (as every post seems to lately).
But I think the reason Lemon was #2 instead of Beck #2 coming into the season is somewhat evident to us now.
Think back to Sunday (and I know it hurts to!). After 10 plays of absolute free runs at the backfield for the Bills...from every angle. (I know I don't need to itemize the futility to this group).
Suddenly, we change QB's and magically protection for the QB and holes for the RB emerge...and L. Booker is a fixture on third downs.
My point is not about the dynamics on the field in a horrid 0-13 blood bath of a season. It is about the fragile imbalance that this team started with coming into 2007 the moment Saban bolted.
We came in with a very very very veteran defense (borderline elite in '06). An offense in complete transition. Rookies plugged into key offensive positions (Satele, Mauia), new TE, OL makeover, QB circus, RB 'competition'.
The new HC, keeps most of existing coaching staff (except RB coach).
With such a mix, of pre-existing frustrated vets, incumbent coaching staff with relationships with these vets, newbie rookies coming in. I think the pressure was on from day 1 from every angle for the HC to play the most experienced players on offense (particularly QB).
Also consider, that Phillip Rivers sat his entire rookie year with Cam as OC in San Diego.
Just a ramble...Peace
I think....
But, I'm really scared to see what happens if Beck faces off vs NE. That could be the ugliest game in league history.
but.,,
Start Lemon vs Baltimore in a desperate effort to avoid going winless and entering the record books along side the 76 'Bucs as the only teams to go 0-14.
Hopefully we will take advantage of an equally dysfunctional Baltimore team, but either way he will start Lemon vs NE so we can at least walk away with a respectible score. Then, after getting drubbed by NE, he'll give Beck his token last start of the year vs. Cincinatii at home. Weak defense, and should give him confidence going into next year.
I'm sticking by this prediction. I can def see Cam doing that.
Thanks
It's sad to think our owner can't do the same he only cares about winning now. It goes all the way back to the April draft when he made the comment about not drafting B. Quinn. When asked about taking Ginn over Quinn Wayne's reply was "They better be Right or" well we all know that Wayne is a hands off owner, right? After all this mess I wonder if that is true and I'm begining to believe that it's not. I'm now willing to bet that Wayne was the driving force that caused Cam to play John. It's true that I'm like all of you, sure I wanted John to play, why not, what do I know? Cam never wanted John to play this year and he must have had a very good reason why not. Bobby is another QB friendly HC and he also demands that his rookie QB sit for the first year.
The point that I'm making is that Arthur Blank wants to win in the long term and knows that there will be some bumps in the road and in sticking with his HC he is telling the fan base that they have to be willing to do the same. The Falcon fan base was out in force last night and although I know that they have had at least two blackouts Mr Blank hasn't lost the fan base like Wayne H. has. While our owner is silent on all matters (in public but, I bet not behind doors) he waffles around and does his STUDY leaving us, the Fan base, to draw whatever we want to from his mess. We holler and Wayne knee jerks and if this is truly the case. I have to say that I now think that Cam should leave because, if it's true that Wayne forced him to play anyone because the fan base wanted it, the tail is now wagging the dog and Cam isn't strong enough to handle it. If I'm wrong then Cam will put his foot back down and Lemon will play the rest of this year, no matter what. Otherwise???
As I said before if I was the next HC headed to the Dolphins I would demand that I have a no fire clause for the first three years and that Wayne must back (in public) whatever coaching move I made and that is the only way I would work for the man.
It is also reported that because The Chin has stated that he will not get back into coaching until '09 that Wayne now plans to stick with Cam one more year. I think this is so laughable because "The Bus" has been saying all along that Cower would go to the Giants and they just said that their HC would get one more year unless the wheels came off in these last three games. Poor Wayne he just can't seem to get any breaks. :)
Arthur Blank
In addition
by W NY Fins Fan on Dec 11, 2007 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
The point
Ah yes R. Wilson now there is a real stand up guy; maybe you think we should bring back DS to be our President of FB Ops.
My point was our owner's knee jerk reaction to us fans and Cam's backing down from his stated stand of Beck sitting this year as the BEST/ONLY way to treat John to make him sucessful.If that is true (I'm now guessing)then the tail (Fans) is wagging the dog (Wayne). To me that isn't always the best way to run a business. Maybe I feel that way because I'm ex Navy but I never liked fighting by voice vote. We tried that once and it turned out real bad-we lost (get my point?).
I'm sure you bleed Aqua and Orange, just as I do, and please don't think for one minute that I like losing; I DON'T. Is firing Cam the best or quickest way to win the SB? I don't know but I do know this, if Cam sold out to our owner on he feelings about the most important position on our football team after standing up to him ( and us; the fans) on so many other matters the I no longer want him as our HC. I can live with everything else about him (yes I was/am willing to give him another year) but not that. To back down on principle is unforgiveable and I can't live with that. A job is just a job, and you can always get another, but I will never trust or want to be around a man who does that.
New idea for QB
by MarkDuper85 on Dec 11, 2007 10:21 AM EST reply actions
If Beck doesn't start, Cam gets CANNED
Well, I still want him to start, and not just in the hard games. For the sake of the team's future, let the man play and get his first TD. Ease off the reigns a little. He is used to being a leader and making decisions at BYU and he is capable of stepping up after having some hard times.
And speaking of BYU, it was interesting how in that program, Beck finally became a master of the QB position once he actually had a good coach take over...
by Riz on Dec 11, 2007 10:23 AM EST reply actions
Doesn't Matter
It is difficult to decide if the starter will be replaced because of injury or poor play, but it will happen.
Beck should play, but...
Last week, Beck was getting poor pass protection, and not much run support. I don't really believe it was the lack of leadership in the huddle. That is asking me to believe that the O-Line are mutinying when Beck is in there, and rallying when Lemon shows up. I just don't think that's happening.
I think it is all about the play calling. The first two plays called for Lemon could have been called for Beck, with the difference being, maybe, what the defense played. But what I saw was a failure on the play calling to get help Beck. If he is struggling with the blitz, run the ball more. 3 and out is better than turnovers. And why not roll him out? From what I have seen of the kid, he is pretty quick on his feet and good throwing on the run.
I don't know if he needs to start, but I think he needs to play. I might think about starting Lemon and letting him play "Martyball" for the first quarter and a half. Check out the Baltimore D, let our D have a chance against the Baltimore offense, try to keep it close. Then put Beck in half way through the 2nd, getting maybe 1 or 2 chances to put together a drive, and then take it to halftime and debrief. Announce Lemon is starting and let the Baltimore D watch game film this week of the Leo-Ginn bomb.
My concern is that if Cam is not able to adjust the play calling on-the-fly, the Baltimore D will eat the kid alive. Even the toughest guy is going to have his confidence shaken if he continues to have games like last week.
IMO
by LeftCoastFinFan on Dec 11, 2007 12:08 PM EST reply actions
Beck is tough
When I looked up Beck's stats on Sunday, I was really surprised to see that he was yanked. There is nothing you can do worse for a QB than to pull them out that early. What did Cameron just say to him and every person watching the game? "I no longer trust you and will put in the stop-gap to lose the game for us."
I think Miami needs to trust Cameron and Beck and address the offensive line in the draft. No quarterback is going to be successful if they are sacked as much as he has been. Trust me, you have a great franchise QB, he just needs the chance to shine.
by Pwride on Dec 11, 2007 12:33 PM EST reply actions
BECK Should Play
by artiscursive on Dec 11, 2007 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see the big to do about all this...
Keep playing Beck. Everyone here knows we are almost guaranteed to go winless whether we play Lemon or Beck. The question is, what is there to possibly gain by playing Lemon? The team isn't going to win, nor will it resolve the fact that this team has essentially tuned out and does not respect the head coach.
The play calling, the blocking (lack thereof), isn't Beck's fault. Not to mention, Lemon's numbers are/were/will be poor regardless.
Even a solid starter at QB would have difficulty considering how this team is not blocking well, the poor game plan, etc.
Hi Nat,
That is just an example of the type of stuff that makes me want to slap whoever is actually calling the plays. The D knows you are going to run it, they are lined up to stop you, throw it behind them! As long as you don't throw a pick, your downside it running it for 1 yd against a D expecting a run on 3rd down.
I am not a professional play caller, like Cam, but even I know that was WAY too conservative to win a game.
by LeftCoastFinFan on Dec 11, 2007 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
OK ok
Have we forgotten what Beck did in Philly and Pitts (even though I think it was wrong for Cam to start him then)? In horrible weather conditions, no ints, and actually lead Miami on a drive in Philly that should've lead to a TD, but the TE (dropped pass) and Cameron (another d*mb@ss play-call) screwed that up for him.
Alright he had a bad game in his 3rd start, so what it was his 3rd start EVER. He was gettin sacked constantly, starting fumbling cause our F'n TE couldn't protect his backside. Beck can't do anything with his O-line regression and not protecting him.
Lemon, for crying out loud is doing play-action with no one in his backfield, throwing 2 ints, and fumbling the ball 4 times (lossing 1) in less than 3 quarters of play and he give us the best chance to win.
Cameron needs to get with, good coaches adjust to their players, not the other way around. D@mn it Cameron, call some d@mn screens, and quick 3 step passes and get the F*ckin ball out of there if you are having trouble protecting him. Let Beck throw deep every once and a while (when he is starting to get some protection) to loosen it up even more. Make some F*ckin adjustments and stop being so d@mn hard headed. Your way has gotten us 0-13 and the laughing stock of the NFL, you suck.
Wow, I feel better. Sorry guys, but this Lemon gives us the best chance to win is a load of crap. Moving on, Cameron better play Beck, we have to get a better idea of what to do with the #1 overall, 9/10 we're going on 0-16 anyways, might as well do it looking toward the future so we won't go 0-32. Just my 3 cents.
Hi Left & Neo...
We could play Leo every game this year and next year and the results would always be the same. He doesn't have upside, he's a guy playing as good as he will ever play, which is pretty bad as I'd describe his level of play as mediocre!
Perhaps Beck will be a bust and terrible, but he might also be far better than Leo the Lemon could ever dream. 4 games into his pro career, it is a bit early to say he's a failure.
I'd like to see Beck play with a )staff that has a real game plan, b) a line that actually blocks, and c) someone to throw to and hand-off to other than Ginn and Gado.
Just my opinion
We must win the turnover battle this week!
Looks like it's back to Lemon......
Fox Sports is reporting that Lemon will be named the starter tomorrow.
I was hoping to hear that Cam had pulled a "Petrino" and resigned for the Michigan job. Oh well........
by ithacadolphin on Dec 11, 2007 9:35 PM EST reply actions
You know...
Let's hope he still goes the saban route and leaves at season's end.
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